Asking Matthew Hussey Anything

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That's what this country has done for 250 years and what GMC has done for over 100. We are professional grade. Visit GMC.com to learn more. Assembled in Flint and Hamtranch, Michigan and Fort Wayne, Indiana of US and globally sourced parts foreign welcome back to Ask Men Anything, the show where I, Emma Willman, try to get to the bottom of what modern masculinity is all about by asking men my and your burning questions. Today my guest is life and dating coach and author of Love life how to raise your standards, find your person and live happily no matter what, Matthew Hussey. Matthew, thank you so much for being on the show.

Thanks for having me, Emma. It's good to be here.

Thank you. Now, before we get into our question, we've got questions from listeners. Before we get into all that, I was just so curious when I was reading your bio, which is extremely extensive and impressive, but you started being a life coach in your teens. How did you get clients when you were in your teens? Because I'm just, you hadn't lived much life at that point, so I'm guessing you were just getting like premonitions or just extreme insight you were able to offer. But how did you go about doing life coaching at such a, with such a short life at that point?

Well, I actually wasn't a life coach at that point. I was just someone who was fascinated by, you know, the books I had read years old. I read how to win friends and influence people. And that always like that sparked an immediate passion for me with just the idea that you could be better with people. That was like a revelation for me because I was introverted and I was shy and it, you know, in various ways in my teens that made life harder for me. So the idea that, oh, there's things you can learn that will improve your confidence and your impact in the world was life changing. I was 19, but I was helping people in their dating lives at the time. And so I was not. Even though I may have had aspirations to be some kind of broader coach, I was very aware of my limitations. I was very aware that I hadn't lived a long enough life to be taken seriously. And really what I was helping people do at the time, it was in some ways quite simple. I had learned how to take more Risks. In my own love life, I had learned to be a little more bold and to act in spite of my fear, to not let rejection turn me into someone who is always waiting to be chosen, instead of actually being able to go and choose who I would like to. To at least try with. And I was able to help other people take those same risks. So nothing I was doing, I don't think, was terribly sophisticated at that time, but I was helping people take more risks. And that was kind of how I got my start helping women in their love lives. It wasn't that I had some deep knowledge of the issues that women were facing in this area of their lives. It was simply that I could see that actually I had something in common with a lot of women, which was that I wasn't making the move for a long time. And you know what was funny is what was clear to me is that women had an extra hurdle, which was that they weren't making the move either. But they also would socially condition to feel like it wasn't their job to make the move or that it would look desperate to make the move.

Sexism or whatever. It could be safety or. Yeah. Do you remember the first woman you really related to, where you were like, oh, I'm relating to in a way I didn't anticipate.

I remember having an experience reading the book the Rules. It was like one of the first books I read that was kind of designed to be for women.

That is such a throwback, that book. I remember sneaking into my stepsister's room and reading that. She had it hidden with romance novels. It was like romance novel. Romance novel. The Rules.

It was a seminal book back then. And I remember being. I must have been 19 when I read it. And I was curious. I was like, what are women being told?

Right.

There was a moment in the book, I might be misquoting it, but there was a moment in the book that my memory says it was, if a guy isn't approaching you, then he's essentially, don't bother with that guy, because if he was into you, he'd be talking to you. And I remember thinking, that is the exact opposite of how I feel as a guy. I feel like the people that I really want to talk to are the people I'm absolutely avoiding. So it felt like the. It literally felt like the inverse of what I knew to be true for me as a guy, which is, the more I like you, the more scared I am. The more scared I am, the more likely it is that I'm going To avoid taking the risk. And that's not me downing that book. I think there's a. I'm sure a lot of great things in that book, but it just. At the time, I was like, you know, there's clearly kind of distance being put between men and women and the way they think. And actually, one of the things I've come to learn, even in the last few years, is I feel like a lot of women don't realize how sensitive men are and how easily they hurt, and that the same things that hurt them do wound men. And you can draw a line between that realization for me in the last few years and even the realization I was having back then that, oh, people are being told that if he's not coming over to you, he's not interested. But, you know, the people that are coming over to you are usually people who are pretty good at coming over to you, not the people who like you the most.

Did you just always instinctively feel like you wanted to share what you were learning, too? Because probably seeing that and being like this doesn't sit right. The propensity to not just keep it to yourself, which is a very endearing thing to be like, I want others to know what I've learned. Did you feel that just like bursting out of you, or was there one person, you're like, I gotta tell them specifically.

You know, what's funny is I had a friend at university, a guy friend, who, as I was learning so much of this stuff, I was living this strange double life where I was both in university studying real estate and planning.

Right.

And at the same time, kind of moonlighting as a coach, getting the train into London from Reading University every day in England and going and working with people. And it was a kind of a life I didn't talk about, you know, with my professors and people at university because I didn't want them to think I wasn't taking my course seriously. But I had a friend at university who. I would just sit with him in his room for hours and hours and hours, and we would just discuss everything I was learning, everything. I was excited about, everything. I was, you know, essentially coaching myself because, yeah, I was my first client. And it's like I. I really enjoyed talking about it. So it was less. I think it was almost less that I must tell the world this. It was more. I just really enjoyed. I was very passionate about it. For me, it had helped me. And so anyone who would let me talk about it, I would talk about. I would talk about it to people for free. Because I was just like, this is the subject I enjoy the most right now. And I think a lot of people get that sense when something has really helped them. And when you feel like you've made real changes because of something, it gets exciting to talk about probably long before you're qualified to talk about it. Long before you feel like you're, you know, I look back now and of course, you know, when I look back on my 21 year old self, when I look back on my 25 year old self, sure, I cringe a little and I roll my eyes a little at some of the things I was saying. And then there was also some things I was saying that I look back and I go, all right, I got that one right.

And that's how you grow too. Because if you hadn't, you know, if we don't put ourselves out there with our initial thoughts, then there's no nothing to look back on as a marker to be like, oh, I've actually grown from this, this point too.

Yeah. And I think, you know, Christopher Hitchens once said, we're always publishing in conversation. You know, there's a, as you're talking things out, you are kind of, you know, you're putting out your first drafts of all of your thoughts and ideas. And I'm sure you experience that, doing what you do and hosting and, you know, running this show. It's like you, you know, your first time saying something is really the most nuanced version of it that you're gonna land on.

Totally. And then that's one of the tricks with social media too. Cause something can get caught on camera before. And then you go, wait, I'm gonna revise that real quick. I hope this also gets some views. I had a second thought about that. And if you don' mind that experience.

Last night, I literally came home to my wife last night having done a show and I, I got, you know, like really pushed into some new territory with the station on this show. And I just came home with this hum of anxiety because I just went, that's not going to be my best time saying that. And I feel like, you know, I was working thoughts out in real time and people forget that. It's like people, we judge people on podcasts and shows and things on these snapshot moments which, you know, your brain and your opinions are this living, evolving thing. And you know, we take these clips and, you know, they become clickbait and they become this, this thing that lives out there is like, this is what this person thinks. But no, by definition. They are having a conversation. And when you're having conversation, you're working things out the same way. As you know, the book that I've written is like the first time I wrote it. It's all changed since then. It's all been through 10 different drafts since then. I'd have put my foot in it 20 or 100 different ways if the first draft of this book was published as it was written.

I can't wait to read the book.

Thank you. I'm so excited. My first book came out 10 years ago now, which is crazy. I used to feel it's funny when I talk about starting at 19 because I used to feel everywhere I went I felt like this young puppy who was like, you know, always the youngest person in the room, always having to justify my age and how I was doing what I was doing. And no one asks me to justify it anymore.

Do you miss it? I'll do it. How are you so young with these insights? Where is, how is this? You're just a baby. Summer's here and Nordstrom has everything you need for your best dress season ever. From beach days and weddings to weekend getaways in your everyday wardrobe, discover stylish options under $100 from tons of your favorite brands like Mango Skims, Princess Polly and Madewell. It's easy, too, with free shipping and free returns in store order, pickup and more. Shop today in stores online@nordstrom.com or download the Nordstrom app. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Knowing you could be saving money for the things you really want is a great feeling. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save. Save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. We have some emails and some other questions for you, so I'm going to go first into our segment. Why do men this is a listener question. Dear Emma and Man, why do men seem to like their girlfriends crazy? I see so many men in relationships with these jealous or demanding girlfriends. And I have so many single friends who are very chill, secure and happy. And none of us can hold a relationship. Would love some insight or diagnosis on this. Sincerely nice and normal.

Well, you're, you're not gonna if you're nice and normal as as she puts it, you're not gonna attract someone who is attracted to unhealthy behaviors. And there are plenty of men whose nervous system is attracted to or lit up activated by unhealthy behaviors.

I've been that person attracted to chaos because I was used to it.

Exactly. You know, we tend to attract and even just spot behavior that we are familiar with in some way. And we may not realize. We may not even know that consciously. You know, we may not realize that we had erratic or capricious parent who, you know, gave love to us and then withdrew it, or love was very conditional, or love was very heated. You know, it. We may not even realize that consciously. But we find ourselves drawn to these chaotic situations over and over and over again. So you, you shouldn't, you shouldn't, you know, lament the fact that people, those men who are in those very volatile relationships, that you're not attracting those men, those. You could only attract that men by being the kind of volatile that would turn them on, that would feel like love to those people. Our job is to pick a healthier path for ourselves to say, I want to find someone who not only brings me peace, but appreciates peace. And you know, you're going to turn off some people when you're peaceful because they're not going to know how to handle that. It's going to be strange to them. It's going to be something that is alien to them. They're not even going to recognize it. For some people, peace feels really, really boring because their nervous system is not conditioned to think of peace as a positive thing. And then they don't have that appreciation of what you're bringing to the table. Your job is not to try and attract a person like that. Your job is to find someone who appreciates the regulated nervous system that you have. And, and that's going to be another. Either another well regulated nervous system or.

I like your nervous system.

Yeah. Or it's going to be someone who sees what you're bringing and realizes that it's better than what they've been attracted to in the past. And they start to shift and evolve in response to that invitation from you to something healthier.

So now we kind of have an understanding of why they would have these girlfriends. But I guess we have to then look at why would we then be attracted to or ruminating about not being with someone who then is attracted to that? Because, you know, I know a lot of times too, especially when you look at your childhood or wherever it is, sometimes it's almost easier if it was more obviously in the red or obviously extremely traumatic, because then you can. It's a jump off point to look at it. But when it's. There's a lot of gray area. I've noticed sometimes that people will get more defensive. I was defensive of my parents for years, and I love my parents so much. But I would be like, oh no, they're the best of the best. But then, you know, you start looking at, okay, maybe this. Something's obviously not right because I'm. I'm only attracted to drug addicts. Not. I'm not saying I was, but I'm just saying in some cases where someone could be like, I only want, I want the drama. I want the drama. And then you have to look back and be like, well, what's the impetus for that?

Yeah, no, it's true. It's true. And it doesn't make your parents bad people. It doesn't make whoever raised you bad people. It just totally that they didn't, they also didn't get what they needed when they were kids. And it just, you know, we have a way of passing these things on. That's what intergenerational trauma refers to. You know, we can't have our reasons for why we are the way we are without also giving our parents the reasons why they are the way they are and so on. So it's not, you know, I think we, we often carry a lot of guilt about, you know, exploring some of the ways that our parents didn't give us what we needed or even just the ways they showed up that create patterns that don't serve us today. Which, by the way, I don't have kids yet, but guaranteed, if and when I do have kids, I'm going to pass some of my stuff on to them and they're going to be sitting there one day going, oh, God, I wish. You know, the way he showed up for me gave me this pattern in my life. So we're all going to do it on some level. But knowing that, how could you not? It can really help you understand yourself. And that's. That could be very powerful. And it can also be the root to self compassion, because you can go, oh, again, I'm not crazy. I'm not broken. Someone didn't text me back for five days. I'm an anxious wreck. Not because I'm choosing to be an anxious wreck. There's, there's something in my wiring that this person not texting me back for five days is making me feel fundamentally scared, unsafe, and unable to focus on anything else. That's deep, deep, deep stuff. And once we understand that, we can give ourselves compassion instead of thinking that we're just broken. And B, it might actually be a route to depersonalizing it with this person. You might actually start to realize, oh my God, I'm not freaking out right now because this person is so important or because they're so amazing or because they're the love of my life. I'm freaking out right now because of my wiring. And when we realize that, we can go, maybe this person isn't nearly as important as I'd thought.

Yeah, it's not about them. It's about something I've got going on with myself. And also, in order to even have the shot at rewiring our wiring, we have to be cognitive in some capacity that we're wired and what the hell it is.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like an inventory, a base level of self awareness and self awareness.

And looking at yourself also, I've realized too, it's like, it's not necessarily a critique on your parents at all. It's. It's almost like an act of love to be like, I love you so much that I want to learn how I can improve upon where you left off.

Perhaps it can give us a sense of humility that we should have a sense of humility that whatever we're holding them to task on, we're going to, you know, we're going to come across our own version of that in life. And we have to hope that someone is generous with us or is, you know, brings us that, that same grace when it's our turn to be, to be held to account.

My dad used to make me, he would make me a smoothie every morning to get out of bed. He'd be like, he would wake me up and I would go, and then he would bring me a smoothie. And I hope to God if someone even brought me a smoothie once a month. Could you imagine just hand delivering it and then driving me to school? School before he went to work.

Yeah, it's lovely.

I gotta give it a nicer Father's Day present starting today. Now we have a segment called Ask Matthew Anything. This is a part of the show where we try to get a little deeper inside the male mind with some questions for our guest, Matthew Hussey. Okay, here's the first question. There seems to be an increase on platforms like Tick Tock of straight male influencers who talk about being quote unquote, high value men and want very submissive women. There's also a number of high profile female influencers glamorizing the trad wife aesthetic. What do you make of these social media trends? And have you seen them bleed over into your work at all?

Could you help me understand? I heard this term trad the other day, but I don't know what it is. What's the trad wife aesthetic?

I mean, it's traditional. I actually hadn't heard of it either, but it's a traditional wife aesthetic.

So there's women glamorizing homemaker, more conservative. Got it, got it, got it. There is an interesting thing going on right now. I can't claim to be deep in it. I. Or I'm just. I feel like I'm educating myself on all of this right now. But I see a lot of guys who are listening to the wrong mentors. They are getting the complete wrong advice about women and what women are like. I think there's a lot of, like, conclusions about. All women are like this. All women are like that. This is what they're looking for. And it creates a lot of cynicism because it's, you know, there's a lot of. There's a. There's a lot of hurt men out there, and there's a lot of men that feel insecure or feel like it's. They've had a rough go of it. And when they hear things like, it's because you're too short. And ultimately the data shows that women want a tall guy and they don't. They, no matter how great you are, they don't want someone who's under X number.

That makes me feel so bad. That makes me feel so. I feel so sad when I hear that. I don't know why. Well, it's so bad.

It's. You know, it, it's sad because we all have those things. It's very human. And look, let's be real. It's not easy out there when someone is short and they go on a dating profile and they see a bunch of women stating the height that you have to be in order to, like, reach out to them. That's a really, really tough thing. And it. And it's. And it can make people very, very angry. And it can make them feel cynical because it says. Yeah, well, in a world where women say they just want a really nice guy, turns out they want a nice guy who's six, two and.

Right.

You know. You know. Yeah. And has a square jawline. And, you know, it's like that there's. There's a lot of people who get very angry with that and feel like being nice hasn't worked for them. And so when we feel like all the things we've been told to be aren't working for us, all of a sudden it starts, like, there's always the possibility to be, like, kind of, you know, grandiose about. It's like going to the dark side. Like, Right.

You do a hard switch.

Yeah. Being. This didn't work for me. So now, screw it. Now I'm going to be everything that they actually want instead of what they say they want. I'm going to make loads of money, get a powerful job, be dominant, be alpha, because those are the guys I'm seeing winning out there. And that's what I want to be like. And of course, there's a whole community of guys also who check out all together because they're like, I don't even want to play this game. So I'm out. Like, screw this. Screw the whole thing. I'm not even playing. So there's a lot of that going on on the men's side, and that's. I find that deeply, deeply sad. And I find it deeply distressing because there's a lot of anger there.

Right. I think it's so much fear because I think it's like, there's so many different things when all of a sudden, like, you're, like, grappling for meaning, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, this is a clear mess. Like, and then you run towards that.

And you run towards it. And when that message is not just telling you some things that seem to make sense and validate your experience, but they also then stoke true hatred towards women and stoke, in some cases, violence. And it's. It's a. It's a really, really scary trend.

It's. I wonder what happens when someone meets somebody, too, because then you're really locked into it because what if all your friends are like that? Where you're like, yeah, we've agreed to be this way, and we hate these people, we hate women. And then you get a nice girlfriend or a co worker who's really friendly. Then now your whole freaking friend group, you got to. What are you going to do? You're, like, in the closet about having a girlfriend or a female friend. Like, all your buddies are rallying around that.

I think it's hard to build a healthy relationship from that place. What you're more likely to do is find someone who continues to validate that experience. So you, let's say you flaunt your money and your status and your, you know, power, and you're very dominant and Then you attract the kind of woman who is attracted to all of those markers and doesn't care how you treat her. And all of a sudden it feels very validating. Oh, look, I did the things and it did attract someone. And this is exactly what. Right, he was talking about you. You're not gonna, when you're that person, you're not gonna attract someone, A woman who's highly self respecting, who is looking for a true teammate, who's looking for an equal. Those women aren't even on your radar. You're not seeing those women. If I came, my wife, if I had met her from that place, she would have turned from me in a heartbeat. Like, and she's literally, this is the greatest human I've ever met. Like, this is my equal. This is like the person I love the most. It's like, I'm so lucky. I'm so, you know, I feel so great. I feel so grateful for the relationship I'm in and how much support I get from it, how much healing has come for me from that relationship, how much more I've accepted myself because of the way that this person accepts me. And I, I want that for everybody else. And I'm, I'm sad. I'm sad that the conclusions that are being come to are taking people further and further away from the things that would bring them real peace and happiness. And this is not me saying for any guys who are listening, this is not me saying that what you're imagining, all of the things that you're seeing about what some women are attracted to or what seems to work or whatever, but you know, we have to decide what to do with that information. Not sure every, not everybody is like that. And if you want to attract an incredible human being, focus on being an incredible human being. It's not that there aren't things that make us more attractive. Taking good care of ourselves, doing the best we can with the looks we have, you know, dressing.

Amen.

We can taking care of ourselves, you know, working out, doing those things. They're all important. Of course they are. And they're also part of self respect and what makes us proud of ourselves out there in the world.

And that's when it gets tricky too, because sometimes there's good vice enmeshed in this crazy town. And then so it's like, oh. Because it's like, you know, work out, you'll feel better. Wear a clean shirt, you'll feel better. I'm like, yeah. And it's like, and kick cats. And you're like, whoa, how did we.

Because you. And that's what happens in a lot of these communities is it's. Oh, yeah, work out, be confident, be. Be a little more bold, respect yourself, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And we have to dominate women.

Right.

Like.

And you're like, damn, I really like my new gym crew.

But shit, that's how any kind of indoctrination works, right? So they work on. Yes. Ladders.

Oh, I. And I get how that happens.

You know, you have to say yes to the first 10 things, and then the 11th thing is the one that's like beyond the pale. But you're already kind of. You're like, well, I agree with 90% of what they say. So it's. It's really. It's very, very dangerous. And I'm. So let me cross over just for a moment into the. The women's side. I don't know that I know enough about that trad wife culture that seems, from what you're saying, to be kind of emerging, at least on TikTok. I'm really curious about where that comes from. Do you know more about it than I do? Do you know where it comes from?

My guess would be, I think there's always. It's like the pendulum's always swinging. Like, it's like. I always remember my dad talking about something that stuck out to me when he was talking about stocks. He would be like, when people have a distrust for the government, gold always goes up. And when they have a more trust, the government, gold goes down. So right now, if it's like. I mean, and it. Shit is hard out here. So I. I get it. I was just talking to my friend the other day, and she was talking about this couple that she works with, and they're in a throuple, and then the. And they have. They're very successful. And she was talking about how, like, the husband they provide for the throuple.

What.

Third person. Whatever it is. And I said, shit, that sounds nice. Like, that sounds lovely. Because it's like I'm. And when we had the conversation, I was tired and I was like, damn, that sounds good. So I can totally envision where you're like, I'm fucking tired out. I don't know how to balance friends, work, debt, you know, dental problems. And then all of a sudden you go, there's an option for someone to just do this and all, and I just have to do this and this and this. I get it. I mean.

Yeah.

Who know? I always try to think, like, what would I be like, maybe if I was a straight girl, I would have then wiggled into that. I don't know. Like, I have no idea.

That makes sense. I love how open you are, by the way. It's really fun listening to you.

Oh, I'm open. But that's why I can't go near Scientology too.

No, but it's, it's really like you have a, you have a lovely way of thinking because you make space for the arguments while not necessarily agreeing with them. It's really, it's quite rare.

Oh, I really appreciate that. I'm quite neurodivergent.

I appreciate the way you think and I think actually the way that you think and the way you talk is a route to bringing people to better ways of thinking because it doesn't just shut people down or disregard the way they may have arrived there, even if you don't agree with where they've arrived at.

Thank you.

What you said, you know, I think that's true about. I think you're bang on about the pendulum and how it, you know, there's this over correction that happens with people. And so I, I think that probably is responsible for what in some cases feels like this real return to traditional values. I'm seeing it more in, you know, literature that seems to be published right now about like, you know, the importance of getting married. Interesting. Which almost feels like it could have been like published in the 50s or something.

Oh, that's really interesting. Yeah, like it's, it's like making a comeback.

Yeah, it's like, feels like there's like more interesting put out about like, why marriage is so important and why single parenting doesn't work and why. And I see that as a kind of the, the pendulum swinging as well.

Right.

And you know, maybe it's a response to the kind of perceived, you know, hookup culture that people are tired of or people feel like isn't working out for them. Maybe it's a response to people having some kind of issue with how many children are being raised with one parent. But I, you know, I see that and I'm like, oh, that is, that is interesting. I also think it is interesting a little bit because I think that a lot of people aren't married or in long term relationships simply because they've struggled to find one, not because they hate the idea of a long term relationship or not totally saying to someone, you should really have $5 million, you'd be happier.

Right?

Yeah. So I, I do think some of that, that work does miss the point of what's really going on. But it is fascinating the emergence of these things.

It is. There's a comedian named Leonard Oots. I think he's so funny and he had this joke, he did it years ago. I don't know if he still does it, but he talks about coming from a two parent household. He's like, everyone always talks about, oh, that's so nice. You know your dad, you know your dad, he's like, yeah, I've got two parents, but it's not all that. And then he like goes on to like, listen, like the things that are like tough about the two parents. And it's just there's always like nuance to it.

Always, always, always, always.

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I. It's funny, I don't consider myself an online where my expertise lends itself is in finding love and what I think of as confidence and relational intelligence. So I almost don't, I don't always feel like an expert in the intricacies of online dating, but I've spent an enormous amount of my life helping people find love.

I love love.

Me too. It's what we all want. We all want to find love.

I have this friend who, she's a comedian, actress, Amanda Seals. And I remember I was staying at her apartment once in LA years ago. We were. I forget what we were talking about, but she was really busy and she wanted to make time for this person she was seeing. And she just kind of did a real pause in the conversation and she really looked at me and she goes, because I'll show up for love. And I was like, yeah. Like, she was like, I'll make the potential for love. She's like, I will show up for that. And I loved that.

That's Lovely. And it's. It's honest and it's vulnerable.

Yeah.

And that's what's lacking for a lot of people these days is vulnerability. And that's why, you know, to. To your question on online dating, what there is in online dating is a severe lack of vulnerability.

Right.

There's a lot of very superficial interactions that don't go anywhere. And then when you have enough superficial interactions that don't go anywhere, you burn out. So my advice to anyone on online dating would be, see, where appropriate, that you could inject a little more vulnerability into your messages with someone, into the way that you communicate with someone. We are craving authenticity in this world. You know, if you look at why people struggle so much with TV these days and why it feels like podcasts are more enjoyable is because a lot of the podcasts you listen to are a thousand times more authentic than anything you see on morning TV or daytime tv, where it all just feels like plastic smiley. You know, how do you clean the stains out of your denim jeans? And we all care about this. And even though none of us care about it, it's like, right?

We're all watching it. Like, my house is on fire. My car is impounded. Like, jeans are the least of my problems.

We just. We don't feel any authenticity there. And so we listen to a podcast where it feels like people are having a real conversation, and we go, yes. Oh, thank God. Like, to. And even in podcasts, you get a bunch of people that you can just kind of sense. Like, I don't feel like this is the real person talking. I feel like this is not who I'd meet if I met them in their family home. This is a different version of them. The same is true in dating. We. We send out our representative to date for us.

Yes.

We don't take ourselves to the table. And there's a great book called On Writing well by William Zinser, and it's a book for people who want to write nonfiction. But there's a lot of lessons about life in that book. And he says whenever he's reading a writer, he will. The first paragraph is often that writer kind of just trying to impress. It's them using certain language and sentence structure. And it's like, look how clever I am. Look how clever I am.

Right. I use a semicolon or whatever. That's how I would try to impress somebody.

There's the old semicolon tactic. But that down in the second or third paragraph, he said, that writer will write something, a detail, a Line, a sentence that makes him say to himself, aha. A person. Whenever he feels like that, like, oh, he gets that feeling that, oh, there's a person there. That's when he starts actually connecting with that writer. And I think we should look at our messages in online dating and of course, the things we say on a date and say, at what point have I said anything that would make another person have that moment where they go, aha. A person.

I love that. And also it's. There's something too about. Because now there's such a commodification of people. The difference between. This is a real nuance thing. The difference between when people on social media try to commodity they. They do over sharing. But oversharing doesn't necessarily mean authenticity. Authenticity is a different. Because sometimes you'll see on like, like, if someone does like an overshare of something, it. It does. It's not a. Not necessarily showing a. A vulnerability if they're just like. Like, this is all the trauma I've been through or whatever it is. You know, I. I know for me, sometimes maybe like being. Then being like, almost on guard from that because it's like, it's like my little receptors go up, like, is this authentic? Is this an authentic thing? Because they don't know me, so why would they share this with me? No judging, but where is it coming from? So I, I love the idea of, like, finding, like, ways to using the phrasing of carving authenticity in. So you're bringing it in to show there's a person behind here because everybody loves long walks on the beach, but maybe you like long walks on the beach, but it's hard for you because you get tendinitis. Boom. Night. That's interesting.

No, you're right. And you're so. You're so bang on with everything you're saying. It's. It's like you've read the book already. It's really interesting you say that because it is true. I was on an Australian TV show. I'm English, by the way, before anyone makes the connection that I must be Australian. But I was doing a TV show in Australia, and there was a woman on there that was not being vulnerable at all on her date. She was not being authentic. And she kept hysterically laughing at everything the guy said. And I was like, you know, when I coached her, I said, he wasn't that funny. Like, why did you. Why were you so, like, it's okay to be. It's nice to be nice to someone and to not, you know, like, Encourage them by giving them a laugh when they tell a joke. But you hysterically overdid it. Like, way too many things. Even when it felt like he wasn't joking, it was like a tick, you know, I said, so next day, I want you to just bring more of yourself to the table, like, show a little more vulnerability. And the next date she went and talked about this morbid story of her dad getting in a car accident and his life being changed as a result of it. And it was.

She overcorrected.

Yeah. And that's. It goes to what you're saying, that that was an inappropriate level to talk about. Like, one of the most horrific experiences of not only her father's life, but her own was not an appropriate level of vulnerability.

She orders a steak and it's all bloody and she's like, this reminds me of my dad's car accident.

And they're like, yeah, exactly. It's like, okay, there's a different version of vulnerability. And sometimes just talking about something that we're passionate about is an act of vulnerability because sometimes we hold back the, you know, that we are passionate about something that's a bit geeky or a bit different or that's not mainstream because we're worried that, like, if someone knows that, they're going to judge us or they're going to think we're weird, so we don't talk about it. Or sometimes we just don't get excited about things because we think that even excitement itself can be a vulnerable act. So it is. Things are the kind of authenticity that. That I'm referring to. And when people see those things, they see a human. And when they see a human, you become relatable. There's a greater connection that's formed and you don't actually need to obsess about impressing someone. In the same way when you're really connecting with someone. Most people go on a date to try and impress you. If you switch impressing to connecting, you're going to find that what you build with someone in the time you speak to them is a very different thing.

Well said. I think of it a little bit. Like, I took all these classes on how to audition and then when I got a part in something, I didn't know how to act. So that's kind of like doing the. Learning how to do the online dating, but then not actually learning how to connect with a person.

Yeah.

The next question is, for people who are bored of conventional first aid ideas, what is a good alternative? What's the. What's A good setup for connecting.

Walking. I always, I always, I love walking is like the best first.

I love that. I agree. I love going for a walk.

Yeah.

You're not locked in, you're doing an activity.

Exactly. Yes, yes, yes. It's a. It takes a lot of boxes.

I mean I would actually have felt nervous to suggest walking on a first date because I would feel like I need to very confidently show like I'm gonna take you to dinner. I'm find freaking whatever the nice restaurant, you know. But it's like I keep that up for six months and then there's a big fall off. But like I would have felt nervous to suggest walking but the person that then would be like, yeah, I love going for a walk. That would be great.

It's nice just to start at a place that does amazing coffee or something great. You can walk with and then say let's just stroll and obviously do it in like an area that's a part of town. That's nice.

Sure. If someone says let's stroll in an alleyway. Okay. No, but yeah, and I love it that also if it's not going well for whatever reason, you can stroll in the other direction.

It's a date that's easy to end and it's a date that's easy to continue. It's a date that. Where your focus isn't sitting across from each other table staring at each other the whole time. Which doesn't make for great. It actually doesn't make for great vulnerability sometimes because it's very intense. Whereas.

So intense.

Can you imagine? One of the easy. I find one of the easiest places to have a vulnerable conversation with someone is in the car because you're both facing outwards and you are close to each other but you're not. You feel like there's a. There's a. I can say something, but I can also break eye contact. Walking has a very similar effect. So if you apply that to a first date, you can look at them, but you can also look away from them and observe the scenery. You can also comment on other things going on around you, which gives you sources of conversation. It really does take a lot of boxes. And it's easy for a first date that I. I think the last thing you want to be unless you really know that you've had great conversations already on FaceTime or text or whatever. I feel like the last place you want to be is sat across from each other on a two and a half hour dinner on a first date.

Couldn't agree more. And Also, it's like, I love the idea of walking. I think it also shows a lot of confidence of being like, we're going to go for a walk. I'm presenting my personality. That is what we're really judging here. We're not actually judging. The restaurant shows a lot of security statistics. I feel for the date suggest or especially if you're like, you know, the more masculine energy and you're. Because you might. Then I might think, oh, no, is she going to think, I'm not going to pay for this or do that or whatever. So it shows a lot of confidence just being like, here's who I am. And then also getting some steps. I track my steps. So it's like, I love, you know.

Yeah.

Get my steps in. Is ghosting an acceptable way to end a relatively new relationship?

That's a good question. Because ghosting is wrong. But there's degrees of wrong, right, depending on how long you've known someone for it. It's much more wrong if you've been seeing someone regularly for three weeks and then all of a sudden you completely disappear off the map. Then it's like a really, really nasty thing to do to someone.

It is nasty.

Yeah, it is. It's thoughtless. It's selfish. The question after a first date, how much of an explanation do you really owe someone? I'm of the view if someone texts you to see you again and you just ignore them, that's a mean thing to do. If they don't text you and you just never text them again and that person goes away saying, they ghosted me, I'm kind of like, well, I don't know that that really counts. I mean, it's not like they. You were sending the messages and they ignored you. You could have texted them if you really felt, if you really wanted to, you could have texted them. What you're really saying is, I'm entitled to get a text from them before they send one to me. And because they didn't do that, I feel ghosted. But to me, ghosting is when you are actively trying to reach contact someone and they are actively ignoring you.

And you had a pattern of communication. It's like, how in grand was the pattern of the communication to then deduce the nastiness level? Because it gets nasty if it's like three weeks in because then you go, were you hit by a car? What the hell's going on?

No, that is. And it's a really cruel thing to do to someone and it makes us question our worth when we're on the receiving end of that. Am I not even good enough for an explanation?

Yes. I'm never eating mozzarella on a date again. Like you're gonna rethink every single thing you did and then think it was.

That we have to also consider. How much of an explanation do I want from someone?

Ooh, I love that.

If I find that someone's communication is getting more sparse and I can feel them kind of fading away, do I need them to actively reject me for me to get closure? I think some people are asking for a little too much closure. I think people not trying and is a form of closure and we have to get better at walking away from not trying versus needing someone to give us some explanation. Because you may not want the explanation. It might not be productive for you. Like I wasn't sexually attracted to you. I'm sorry. Do I really need to hear that? Does it help me to hear that? And I'm not sure. There's some kinds of transparency and honesty that honestly I don't really need. I don't need to know what? Why everyone who doesn't like my videos doesn't like my videos. I'm just not for some people, you know, I don't to call them up and be like, hey, what did you. What? What was wrong with my video? And to have someone give me some brutal thing about me that I can't even change.

Sure.

I need to know that. I'm not so sure. So right.

They're like let's start with your face. And you're like God damn.

Like exactly.

It gives them a lot of power too because we're not, we're not even taking the time to go. Well, who the hell are you? Let me get this assessment on who are you before we. I let you then let me know what it was.

I agree. I agree. I think we just have to go. We have to stop. Lack of trying, lack of investment needs to start being enough closure for us.

Some things are simple. Putting $1,500 per year back in families pockets. Good. Hitting hard working Americans with a $4.5 trillion tax hike.

Not good.

Unleashing affordable American energy. Good. Wasting money on green New Deal scams. Not good. Securing our borders. Good. A broken immigration system, not good. America needs lower taxes, more energy and stronger borders. Congress. The time to act is now. Learn more@protectprosperity.com paid for by Americans for Prosperity. NASCAR is coming to Richmond Raceway this August for a late season clash at one of the sport's most historic short tracks. The truck series will get things to started on Friday night with a field full of hungry drivers looking to make a late season statement. Then on Saturday, fans will enjoy a full day of tailgating fun before the cup series takes to the track for 300 miles of intense short track racing under the lights at Richmond. Don't miss out on NASCAR weekend at Richmond Raceway, August 14th through the 16th. Get your tickets now at richmondraceway.com do good pickup lines exist? Oh, God, I've never had a pickup line. This is how bad a pickup line was for me. And I was really trying. It was maybe seven years ago. Eight. Whenever it was, I was opening up for this friend of mine, featuring for a friend of mine, Carly Aquilino, at a comedy club in San Jose. And I was single at the time and her and I were getting coffee and this woman I thought was kind of giving me vibes. Now I assume everybody's straight, so I have to. They have to really be sending them my way. But I swear she was like bending over the coffee counter and kind of looking back at me. And I. And Carly was like, that woman, like, really? And Carly was like, that woman wants you to go talk to her. And I was like, oh my God, what do I say? What do I say? So she was like, just go up and say hi or something. Because she. We both deduced as like. She was like sending me some vibes. So I got really nervous and I ran back to the hotel and I put on a new sweater I bought. Then I run back to the coffee shop. Now I'm overheated because it's. My temperature's all up. And I go up to her, I panic and I don't have a pickup line because I hadn't thought through what I was going to say.

And.

And I said, do you have a highlighter I could borrow? And she went, no. And I went, cool. And then turned around and walked away. So this is the. This is the worst, worst case scenario of I'm asking something very specific. It's not open end. It's. It's bizarre. And I'm sweaty because of the sweater thing. So after that, I never even tried with pickup stuff at all. I'm in a happy relationship now, so I don't need the pickup lines per se. But for someone like me, whose proclivity would be, could I bar. I mean, some. Do you like oysters? I got to go by like, someone who's like, totally. Is there anything better I could have said in that moment?

It's so funny. It's so annoying that we have to talk to someone in order to end up in a relationship with.

Right?

Yeah, it's so true. If only there really is system. I, I like, I think the moment something gets called a pickup line, it's in danger of immediately sounding like a pickup line. Right?

True.

Anything. Most of us are not great actors, so anytime something is rehearsed, it's going to come off as kind of canned stayed and weird and rehearsed and awkward. So, you know, to me, I think the key principle is saying something is always better than saying nothing.

Even the highlighter thing.

Even the highlighter thing. Because at least anything is. Anything is more of a green light to a person.

That's true. Because she could have, if she was interested, she could have said, oh, I don't have a highlighter. Like, what are you highlighting?

Exactly, exactly. And we beat ourselves up for those first moments. But it's. The reality is most people aren't brave enough to come up to us or to take the initiative. And, you know, conversations have to start somewhere. And we almost never remember where conversations started. We're just glad we ended up in it. So I think just literally saying anything, think of yourself as being like, my mission is just to say anything. How good is the coffee here? You know, like, you could start with that. And someone's like, I'm glad you made it easier for me to talk to you. It's just about giving someone. Think of it as giving someone else a green light. I am not approaching someone. I am making myself more approachable by saying something.

Yes. It's so crazy how hard it is to even like, I didn't. I never would have even thought to ask that about the coffee because we get so bogged down and like, it has to be. But yeah, giving someone, it's like when people make small talk, say, hey, how you doing? Good, how are you? You don't have to be like, then they're just trying to show, can you carry on some form of a conversation where we can go somewhere with it?

And to that point, literally, if you sat next to someone you thought, you know, you'd like to talk to, just saying, just sitting down. And instead of saying nothing, just sitting down and going, hey, how's it going? Like, just that you may not have a plan, they may not ask you a follow up, maybe it dries up immediately. But I promise you, it's 100% more likely that something will happen by you just doing that, saying, hey, how's it going? Then you doing nothing. Because what that person registers is, oh, it wouldn't now be weird if I said something back.

Right. This was actually very therapeutic for me because for a long time I was like, I really screwed up that highlighter thing. But it's like, no, if it was.

Meant to be that honest baggage, that highlighter moment.

Yeah. Because I've thought, I've, like, it's. I've like, let. I've. It's run through my mind. I was like, oh, God, that was awkward. But it's like, no, like that. I at least gave an opportunity for a conversation. So it's not like that was so bad. It's that, you know, it wasn't there to begin with. Okay, we have our final segment called who, what, where, when, how. This is a little bit broader. It's just a rapid fire thing. First thing that pops to your mind. Total safe space. No wrong answers. In your experience, who do men think of as an ideal partner? That's a tough one for someone who's so tough, a deep thinker and isn't. Has such a background in an su. So I want to just reckon. I don't want to gaslight you on how tricky that would be.

I don't know if they think of this as the ideal partner, but, God, how many people were in love with Wonder Woman when that film came out?

Was she a big one? Who played that? Was that Gal Gadot?

Gal Gadot, yeah. So many men were like, oh, my God, she's a. She's amazing.

Which really, I didn't realize that there's.

There's some hope for men liking strong women if that's the case.

You know what? That's true. What do men notice first in a woman?

Oof. I mean, look, I think I'd be disingenuous for me to not say looks, but I think, I think warmth is a really big one.

I love warmth. And I agree. Especially not especially in this day and age where it's like we're all so guarded. If someone's able to have. That's something I love about my girlfriend. She's still able to have kindness and warmth. And it impresses me so much because I'm like, you know, she's a really beautiful person of color working in a very white industry too. And I'm like. And I just hear some of the things people say and stuff and I'm like, man, like that, you still have so much warmth and compassion for you that you give to people. That is just. I find that very attract. It's strength to me. Because I'm like, that's strength.

I agree. It's an act of rebellion.

It is. It's counterculture. To have some more health is count. Mental, emotional, physical health, however you define that is counterculture in a lot of ways. In this day and age, where do men take someone on a date when they really like them?

I think if they really like them, they take them somewhere that they think they would really enjoy because it's a reflection of the fact that they've been listening. They take a person somewhere that that person will enjoy based on the kind of information they've collected about that person. Because some. Someone could take them. Take you to something they're passionate about, but they also might just be showing off.

Okay, true.

Whereas when they're going. When they're taking you to something that they've listened and they know that you would really like it, it's a reflection of the fact that they've paid attention.

They're kicking it into high gear.

It's definitely not an expensive restaurant. There are plenty of men trying to impress who take you to an expensive restaurant on a first date because that's kind of the tool that they're using to win points. But that has nothing to do with you.

I think, too, when you show someone that you're listening or it's also something like, say, it's something like, I would not be interested in. Go. Not to get political here. I would not be interested in going to the Friends exhibit. But if I was going on a bunch of dates with someone and they were like, oh, I love Friends. I love Ross and Chandler. And I took you to the Friends exhibit.

Yeah. That would show uk.

Yeah. I'd be calling my friend up beforehand going, I gotta go to the Friends exhibit today. But I'd be doing it to say, hey, I will do things I don't want to fucking do for you.

That's right.

And then I would mention, if we got in a relationship, I go, I didn't want to do that fucking thing.

Just so you know, that's how much I cared.

That's why I'm not the easiest to be with. When do men decide to propose to their girlfriend?

Oh, man. I think there's a bunch of answers for that. But I think that it's when they feel like, oh, I'm truly ready to give up all of this other stuff and this. You know, I know for me, when I proposed, it was because, A, I was ready to build something, and B, I hadn't. I was like, I'm never finding A better builder than this. So that. That was what made me propose.

I might use that in a proposal. I'm saying I don't think I'm never gonna find a better builder than this. Okay, so if I propose to my girlfriend, she can never listen to this episode.

She never listens to this.

Exactly. This is the final one. How do men show love?

It really depends. It depends on how they like to give love. But I think acts of service are quite big for men, like trying to go out of their way to do something. I think that's often a really. A really nice sign. A lot. A lot of us men could be quite thoughtless, you know, and, you know, just kind of go through the motions. And I think when someone actually goes out of their way to do something for you that they think that you'll enjoy, like, it's not hard for a guy to want to have sex or to.

Right.

Be physically intimate. It's like that's not going out of his way for. For most men. But I think that acts of service are a big one. If he does something that he feels you'll really appreciate or enjoy or will make your life easier, I think that's. That's a really good sign. And I also think just listening, if he really is paying attention, if he's paying. It goes back to that date thing. If he's paying attention to who you are, what you enjoy, what. What you say you need to get. And he gets that for your birthday because you said it three months ago and he wrote it down. You know, like listening, I think, is a real act of love for a lot of guys.

This goes back to the. The idea of the identity boxes too, because it's kind of like we need to have certain, you know, know, within ourselves what our different things we're proud of and interests are for then someone to then even show that they listen to the interest. Because if you don't have any interest or things that you're giving someone, and I really relate to, having an interest can feel like a vulnerability. Like, I've been obsessed with Peptides recently and I feel. It feels weird for me to even share that because then people are like, what is that? Is it. That's weird because you have to inject them. It's a whole thing.

Yeah.

But it's like, I feel like when I even share that, I feel weird about it. So I could imagine if back on dating, I wouldn't bring that up till I would do butt stuff before I would bring up Peptides. Like, it would Be. You know what I mean? Like that would be.

Can we quote that and make that this sort of quote of the episode in the description somewhere stuff before Pepsi is. Yeah, that just make that the title of this episode. Really keep people guessing.

Yeah, right. They won't know which one of us said it. Thank you so much for being here. Where can people find you online?

Well, they can find me pretty much everywhere online on any platform. The place that I would say to people that, you know, if you. If you really want to engage with my work and if you've enjoyed the things I've said today, I have a brand new book out is called love life. How to raise your standards, find your person and live happily no matter what. And it is the culmination of 10 years of work for me all in one place. And I think it's like the best value thing you can get from me because it's had hundreds and hundreds of hours of work and material put into it and you know, it's the price of a book. So the. We have a website, lovelifebook.com if you go there, you can not only order a copy of the book from whatever retailer you want, the links are all there. But you can also use your receipt from the book as your ticket to an event I'm doing on May 4, which is going to be is called find your person. And it's going to be a really beautiful accompaniment to the book. I'm going to be there live, my wife's going to be there. We're going to be working with people, coaching people. It's going to be a beautiful time. And the only way to come is by grabbing a copy of the book which I promise you, you are going to want all on its own, regardless of whether there was any event attached because it's for anyone out there who is trying to find love. I know how hard it is out there for people. I've been working with people for 17 years of my life now and it is hard out there and you are not. There's nothing wrong with you for wanting love. There is nothing shameful about looking for love. It's a human thing that we all want and it is hard. You're not broken for finding it hard. It is, you know, this is an area of our life where we feel really out of control. It's not like going to the gym where if you just go every day, your body will change in your love life. You can go on a date every night of the week for the next three months and it doesn't mean that you'll find love. It is a very difficult area and you know, that requires a lot of self compassion, especially because, you know, as we get older we often find our friends pairing off. We find ourselves feeling more alone. Loneliness can feel like a chronic condition. We can start to feel invisible, like we're the one who's going to get left behind. We start to question whether it's ever going to happen for us and if it doesn't happen for me, am I going to be unhappy and missing something fundamental to my happiness for the rest of my life? These are very real things and they're even more real if you want a family because it feels like there's a timeline. Well, there is a timeline, especially if it's if you want your own biological family. So it's, you know, this is real stuff. Don't let anyone shame you for wanting to find love. We all want it. This book is about how you can take a healthy approach to finding love that is going to create ultimate self awareness for yourself that is going to give you so much compassion and is going to show you how to enjoy yourself more along the way until you found love. And I'm very proud of it and I think it's going to help a lot of people. So that link is lovelifebook.com for anyone who wants to go and grab a copy today.

Thank you so much. And I'm so glad to hear you say that you're proud of it because what a thing to be proud of.

Yeah.

Thank you for doing the show.

Thank you, Emma. Thanks for having me.

That was our interview with Matthew Hussey. And before I let you go real quick, I've got some dates coming up that I want to tell you about. I'm going to be in Albany, New York. I'm going to be in San Francisco. I'm going to be in Somerville, Massachusetts. May 7, I'm going to be in Los Angeles. Those other dates I just mentioned are before May 7th. May 8th I'm going to be in Tucson, Arizona. And May 11th and 12th I'm going to be in Phoenix, Arizona. All dates are on imawillman.com thanks for listening to the show. Please DM me @emma Willman on Instagram. Email your questions to amaetches.com for our next guest or leave us a voicemail at 201-754-8351. I'll talk to you next week when we Ask anything. Ask Men Anything is produced and edited by Rebecca Steinberg. Guest booking by Anna Zagzag Send your emails to AMA at betches. Com Betches.