Confessions Of A Reluctant Ghoster (Have You Done It?)

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Welcome to another Love Life Podcast with me, Matthew Hussey and my brother, Oh, brother, Stephen Hussie.

Hey, Matt, they just let up the US-UK border. They're gonna let it up in November, which means that maybe old Steve will be able to tiptoe stateside again. I'll tell you, Steve, it'd make life.

A lot easier if you were in the same podcast studio as us. I've got Jameson here. Would be a good little table, wouldn't it? You, Jay, me, and Steve all around the table. You're building a little studio, right? We're in the process of it. You can't really see it properly right now, but it's gonna be great. We're gonna rig lights into the ceiling and, you know, do a little bit of a fix it up a little interior design wise. Not that it's bad right now, it's quite nice already, but we're gonna take it up a notch.

Marvelous.

Not that it matters, who cares? Do you know what I mean?

For the listener, it's irrelevant, but for my comfort, which is what this is all about.

It's- yeah, it's all about making you as comfortable as possible for the two weeks of the year that you're in LA.

Could be longer.

Can we talk about the fact that we said 20 minutes ago we were gonna do a podcast, I come to sit down having, you know, thrown a shirt on, and you come here like some sort of rugged old bear that's just woken up from a nap. Like, we literally, it's not like I surprised you with a podcast. I told you 20 minutes ago, let's do a podcast, and Jameson's here waiting as well. And then we come back and you're like rubbing your eyes going, Sorry, I've just woke up from a nap.

I went to take a power nap 'cause it's a bit late here in Britain, Matt, where I kindly accommodate your time. And, you know, sometimes you feel great-.

Sensible time to take a nap, 10:30 at night.

You get 20 minutes and you come back raring to go, my friend.

Yeah, this is not healthy lifestyle, Steve.

It's the one I've chose.

It's just push through and then go and have a good night's sleep. You'll now be up till four o'clock.

No, maybe.

This is not Steve. It's like Kathy Lee and Hoda on the Today Show. I'm probably dating myself there. Do they even do the Today Show anymore? Who knows? Whoever's on TV at the moment, doesn't say 10 minutes before they go on live TV, I'm just gonna have a quick power nap.

That is where you're so wrong, because that is exactly what they would do. No, that is exactly what they would do. Pop in the dressing room. That's what it's all about.

Sorry. Because you've been in more green rooms than I have.

Well, let's not make it a competition.

I mean, what are you... What evidence are you basing this on?

I'm not talking about the green room, mate. I'm talking about the stars' private room where they go. You mean, Kathy Lee's not... Kathy Lee's Happy Lee's not sitting there with you in the green room, is she?

You've managed to turn this into a really sort of backhand, not even backhanded, just a slap in the face that it's about me not having been invited to the real room of the stars where what the clandestine naps happen that the rest of us don't know about.

They're not coming and sitting with you and your bit of a celebrity.

This isn't Illuminati, Steve. It's not the secret society of stars and what they do 10 minutes before they go on air. What's the mystery? What's their routine? What is that secret sauce that they do that no one else knows about? Or they take a fucking nap in the in the stars room. The stars room.

Trust me, before some big scenes, DiCaprio would have been napping in a trailer and he just gets up. Bang. He's in.

That's not fair. DiCaprio is never not napping. DiCaprio naps, eats pasta, and makes the best movies in the world.

Right, there you go.

That's what he does.

There you go.

That's a special sauce that only works for DiCaprio. It doesn't work for the rest of us. The rest of us can't walk around the rest of the year with a dad bod and be an A-list Hollywood actor in the upper echelons of Hollywood royalty. Well, I don't have a dad bod. Even Aquaman got shamed for his dad bod. Even he can't play the DiCaprio card. DiCaprio gets photographed on a boat somewhere with just a big belly and goes, I'm DiCaprio.

What?

Aquaman can't even play that card. DiCaprio gets slight better. He loses the ridges in his stomach and there's a bunch of news articles saying, oh, he's let himself go.

If you're gonna be a superhero, that's what happens.

That's true. DiCaprio is probably past the point of being chosen for for the next Aquaman. Well, he's technically, I mean, he's on a boat more than anyone else. Right. He's already Aquaman in his spare time.

Sorry, you know Aquaman's our sailor, don't you?

Yeah, but, you know, he's thinking of Captain Pugwash. I think he jumps off a boat at some point. in one of the movies. He certainly jumps off something into the water.

Right.

Well, should we, should we get into it? I've got an, I got a DM from a fella, Steve, and he said something I thought was quite, I thought was quite interesting. Oh, before we do that, let me just read a review, because we've been doing this as a little ritual.

Why don't I read the emails? Because you're, you're spoiling the review, the reviewers here. But what about the lovely emails?

Is there a nice email? Is it somewhat terse given that you and I have not been terse so far?

Yeah, we've got a nice one here. Let me give you it.

This is from... Good to know you're ready. Good to know you, what? You had it all teed up, did you? This email?

Yep, we've got a nice one here. Let me give you it. This is from Nikki who says, Hey Matthew, I'm usually a very passive receiver of your content and have never engaged. But this podcast, the Back Burner episode, really got under my skin. I'm on the other side of the back burner relationship. I'm extremely single and continue to chat to my ex. He is not only married with two small children, but we are also on different continents. This contact has been very platonic and above board because I created those boundaries. But if I'm completely honest, I still hope for us to be together one day. The attention feels good because I'm lonely and it keeps my fantasy alive. I know my behavior is unhealthy and I need to stop. Just need to get an outside perspective. Thanks, Nikki.

Well, you know what, Steve? That is beautifully honest.

That is honest. And I applaud it.

I applaud that level of honesty and vulnerability. And I think that when people send us things like that that aren't dressed up and designed to make people look good or righteous or anything like that when it's just pure honesty like that. I think that's really, really powerful. And I think that she gave a gift not just to us in being able to talk about it, but I think she gave a gift to everybody else who can feel safe in that level of honesty by hearing that she's able to confront that within herself. I think that's, that's, that's so, so. brave.

Yeah.

And of course, yeah, it's really important that we're honest about these things to ourselves because we can slip into them unconsciously and not realize, not realize that it goes against our values until we're in it. We cannot realize that it, because sometimes these things don't start by going against our values. But in her case, what she's really saying is it's platonic. I'm not doing anything wrong. But there is some there is some harboring of a of a desire there. And that I'm by staying in touch with this person, I'm nurturing something that is not wasting his time. You know, he's in something. He's in a marriage with kids. It's not wasting his time. It's actually someone is her wasting her own time. It happens at zero cost to him, but maximum cost to her. Because you can't underestimate the space that it takes up in our mind when secretly we think that something somewhere down the path might happen with someone. That takes up an extraordinary amount of our psychological bandwidth. It satiates, forgive me, it doesn't satiate us. It certainly doesn't fulfill her needs, but it just takes the edge off of a hunger, doesn't it? Takes the edge off of finding somebody else or feeling we need to. It takes up space in our life, so we now have less to give to other people. And it closes us off to possibilities, to even, you know, sometimes in order to see the potential in somebody else, it requires a kind of a level of creativity. We have to be open and we have to look at what it could be and, you know, think, oh, wow, this person has some interesting qualities. Let's get to know them better. But when we think there's already someone on the back burner, when there's someone who we're like, oh, I think maybe one day, who knows, it could be whatever. that fantasy is very dangerous because it stops us from even having the urge to invest enough time and energy to get to know somebody else. Like, love. People are really good at saying, well, yeah, but if something came along and, like, knocked my socks off, then I wouldn't. I I'd be able to part ways with this little fantasy I have, except. Most of the time it doesn't really happen like that. This isn't a movie. Someone doesn't just come along out of nowhere when we're not even trying and just blow us away and we go, oh my God, this is so amazing and magical and has so much potential that I'm gonna immediately sever ties psychologically with that fantasy. No, the way that we come to start to, in most adult relationships, we come to discover that someone's really interesting or that there's more there than meets the eye or that, Wow, I have a really interesting connection with this person. Man, I really love my conversation with this person. Oh, there's something here that I, upon actually asking some questions and them asking questions of me, I'm starting to realize there's this, this something to be nurtured here. A lot of adult relation, we can call it most or a lot, but so many adult relationships begin that way. I'm not saying there shouldn't be chemistry and all of that, but they, they, they're grown from connection and investment and little moments of shared experiences. Well, how are you going to bother to do all of that when you have in your mind this other thing, this fantasy that, by the way, the mundanity of someone that you just meet in a. Who you said hello to in a coffee shop but don't know yet, so can't be that invested in or attracted to yet. Gonna compare with the fantasy of what could be with someone you've built up in your mind.

Yeah, it's.

It's ridiculous. They cannot compete with that.

You might have to make room. You have to. be single, maybe feel that sense of being alone a bit to go, oh, I've got to go and do something now. I've got to go and actually make something happen because I haven't got my little comfort back burner relationship to give me a little hit of connection.

And I'm not doing the fantasy thing of, but they don't compare with this person over here that is in my mind. And it and you kind of what are they, what are you comparing them to? A literally a person that doesn't exist, a person who's taken, a person who's married, a person who has kids, a person who's not even looking. The only, you know, I would say if there's a comparison to be made is that anyone else has more potential. But as long as we've got this fantasy, how is someone going to live up to that fantasy? We're comparing them to something that's not even real. Speaking of things that aren't real, Steve, we can talk about ghosts for a moment.

Who you got?

You like that transition, Jameson? You like that segue? Well, there's this, there's a fella, Steve.

That'S- Casper or Patrick Swayze?

Both fairly benign ghosts.

Both quite amicable as far as ghosts go.

Right, I, well, and Steve, you might decide that the same is true of this gentleman that I'm gonna talk about. I won't name him because he didn't consent to having this, you know, talked about. He's messaged me privately, but I think it's an interesting subject that he's brought up. He said, what if you are that person who ghosts?

Right?

So, we're not talking about the problem with ghosts. We're saying, what if I am the person who ghosts? Whether it's friendships or a romantic relationship, I can only ever manage one thing at a time. I get so overwhelmed. If work gets busy, my few friendships I have left suffer. if I'm trying to manage a relationship, everything else suffers. Now, I relate to this, Steve. This is not an alien concept to me. I I can really relate to this guy. I feel like this is something I have suffered from in my life, and it. It gives a bit of a different angle, doesn't it? On the On the ghosting thing, 'cause there's obviously the... Well, this is what.

They call, this is what they call Bruce Willis-ing. It's when you realize you're the ghost. It's a great twist.

Yeah.

It's a great twist.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. He's suddenly come, 'cause Bruce Willis didn't think that, he didn't think he was doing anything wrong or anything, he's just going about his life. But he suddenly realized, I've made that.

Up, so that's mine. So, BuzzFeed, that's mine, before you go and nick it. Sorry, go on.

No, BuzzFeed's not just a person.

I know they're little beavers.

You know, it's a giant company. It's not, there's not, what if Mr. BuzzFeed's listening to our podcast? This isn't Willy Wonka, Steve. And you're trying to like shield your candy from Mr. Never Ending Gobstopper from Slugworth.

I just, though, if he's listening, just that is mine. Right. That is mine.

I'll tell you, Mr. Buzz, I will put it, well, this is time stamped, Mr. Buzzfeed. So if you're listening to this, you can't use it without crediting dear Stephen.

They've probably already written about it. I've probably, yeah, go on.

I think this is an interesting one because ghosting is often seen as something I suppose at worst malicious and at best incredibly selfish or cold, ruthless. I think there is a huge side to, firstly let's remove it from the context of, I suppose, early dating. I think of this more as, in fact, I think of this more as ghosting where you disappear for a little while and then you realize that you've disappeared off someone's radar because you're juggling a lot of different things. And I mean, I have the experience frequently of going into my WhatsApp account or my texts and seeing just lots of unanswered threads. and realizing that I have, in a sense, ghosted a lot of people. And that is a painful realization when you go, oh, if they'd done that to me, I would have been a bit hurt. You know, that might have, and in a way, as long as I'm running a million miles an hour, I don't notice that most people have ghosted, you know, like if someone's ghosted me, I don't really notice. if I'm doing lots and lots of things. But when I stop and I'm like, oh, I sent that person that thing and they didn't write back, it can be hurtful. It can be painful. I suppose that in the case of this guy, let's call him Jeff, in the case of Jeff, it's a, I think one of the things that can change it for us is is empathy and honesty. Empathy in the sense that it's worth paying attention to how we feel when we send someone something meaningful or when we try to connect with someone and they don't get back to us. Because most of us feel something, if we're honest with ourselves, people are very good at saying, oh, I don't care. If that's me, I don't care. And it's like, well, if you if you truly don't care at all with anybody, then it feels like you've got a major wall up. I get not caring with certain people, but everyone has someone in their life that if that person ghosted them, they would feel something. It would be sad or they would be hurt. So I think empathy is a big part of this, just understanding how it how it makes us feel when we go, when we do all that same thing. I think also just honesty, you know, if someone, if, if you're coming back to someone after a while acknowledging that, hey, man, I know you sent me a couple of texts. I feel, I feel, you know, shitty because I wanted to reach out and, you know, I, I got overwhelmed with work and. I left it too long, but I wanted to check in and see how you are. You know, I think starting by acknowledging people. I also, Steve, I have a role for myself. I'm sorry. I didn't mean start by acknowledging people. I mean, start by acknowledging how it might have made someone feel, or at the very least, acknowledging you're having gone off the radar and. And where appropriate, you know. apologizing for that. I realized that ghosting people in my life unintentionally was hurting me when.

I.

Wanted to reconnect with those people or when, God forbid, I actually needed something from someone and then went back to the thread that I had with them. And the last message was, Them having been quite nice to me and me having not messaged back at all. And now I realize, oh, my God, I now need to ask for something. And literally the last message was me ignoring, it was a sign, a signal of me ignoring them.

I have actually had that with friends. And it's, I had that realization of a moment where I realized, oh, I'm the one who let it slip. I didn't get back to the last message.

Yeah.

And it is a weird like flipping your perspective on its head. You're like, oh, it was me who didn't reply.

Yeah.

It's kind of scary that you don't realize it sometimes.

For sure. My role is this. If I went to reach out to someone to ask for something and I realize that either I didn't get back to them last time or I just realized that this is the first time I'm reaching out to them in a while and that there's been no connection for a minute. My rule is, oh, I'm not allowed to ask them. I have to actually go and check in with this person and see how they are. and I defer whatever.

And.

Unless it's life or death, I defer what it is I needed. I literally tell myself it's not as important as me making a connection with this person. Because right now, all them. This is literally just means selfishly asking for something.

So.

And by the way, we all make the mistake sometimes of. Of asking when we should be giving. we. We all make that mistake. Or asking for something selfish when we should be connecting. Don't beat yourself up when you do this. We've all done it. I still do it to this day. I sometimes I send a message to someone and I'll go, man, now I read that back. That was. I I just should have connected. That wasn't, you know, I I asked for something, and I I shouldn't have done that. I should have just connected with this person. I've had that feeling before. It's not a nice feeling when we realize we've done to somebody else what we don't like when somebody does to us in that way. But this rule has really served me because every time I'm about to reach out selfishly, I flip it and I go, oh, this is me reaching out selfishly. This is about me. This is about something I want. and I haven't done anything to really connect in this relationship and build a greater connection in this relationship and give to this relationship. So I say, okay, then I'm not allowed to ask. I have to defer it. Like, I don't have those credits in the bank. I'm not, like, I haven't given to this relationship recently. So I'm gonna, now, I'm not gonna not reach out. I'm actually gonna get rid of my ask and I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna go in and reach out to this person anyway, but from purely a place of giving. And, and that's been a really positive ritual, really positive kind of role for me to follow.

Yeah, I love that. That's really, yeah, it's an important flip to make.

My, my guess, Jeff, is that there's a friction. between the way that you process your workload or the demands of your life and your needs. And those needs rear their head in inconvenient ways because in moments where you're not overwhelmed or where you find yourself at the end of a long day or on a weekend, you suddenly are craving connection. You're craving friendship or romance or familial relationships. And when you then revisit them with something you need, you find a wasteland of unanswered texts. and requests or kind words or people just reaching out to see how you are. And that then makes you feel bad. It makes you feel bad because on some level you know that A, it's now harder to reach out to them and connect. But B, you also intuitively know that, oh, that must feel bad for them because it also would feel bad. to me if it were the other way around? And I think that that's kind of your answer. I think that you could use what I'm talking about, Jeff, as a kind of as a rule for yourself, that when I need something, instead of reaching out because I need something, I'm now gonna, the person I wanted to reach out to, I'm gonna figure out how I can give something to them. I'm going to figure out how I can make them feel good right now or just check in and see how they are. And at the same time, when someone messages you just in terms of practical stuff, Jeff, I make a point of part of part of the reason I've ghosted people in the past is they'll send me a message and I immediately think to myself, oh, man, I want to write them a nice message back, but, yeah, I don't have time right now. And then, and, and, and I don't have time to write the kind of message that I want to write, and so I'm gonna leave it. What I've come to realize is a message I send back that's a seven out of 10 is better than me sending an imaginary 10 out of 10 message four weeks later or two weeks later after the moment has passed, and they already now are hurt. that a seven out of 10 message is much more valuable, especially if the people in your life get used to the fact that when they reach out to you to connect or ask how you are, you actually get back to them and check in. And that doesn't mean, like, if someone says to you, if someone says to me, Matt, can you do this thing next month? if the truth of the matter is I don't want to commit right now, then that's the truth. I should say, I don't have to say it in a blunt way. I can say, hey, you know, friend, so good to hear from you. How are you? How's your daughter? Or how's your mom? Or how's your leg? What's going on? Hey, that sounds really fun, and I so appreciate the invite. truth is, I have so much on next month that I just honestly don't know if I can commit to this right now. I'm happy to check in with you in a couple of weeks if my time frees up. But in the meantime, don't let me hold you up, because I just, you know, next month's so busy for me. I just don't know if I can commit at the moment. That one message sends you four weeks of Having the thought 100 times of, oh my God, I didn't get back to that person. Oh, they asked me to do that thing and I just haven't even replied. There's a horrible feeling in your stomach to live with week after week. The little bit of discomfort now of either sending a if someone sends you a really nice message or like it's almost like this. If someone sends you a really nice message and you're like, oh my God, that's such a nice message. How do I live up to that message in my reply? send even if you send one that's half the length, but you reply at least right now and just say, oh, my God, that means so much to me. Thank you so much. And you do that. That's better than nothing. Even if you can't write an essay. And if you do write an essay a week from now, replying to that message, that's a bonus. But it's not the expectation. If someone sends you a message saying, how are you? Then write a quick message back. I'm so good, friend. How you doing? Good to hear from you. Just do it now. If it's two seconds, do it now. So this off your plate and you don't have to think about it. If it's someone making a request that you can't fulfill, then tell them, Hey, thanks so much. Message received. I've got it. I don't know right now. I can't, I can't give you an answer to this yet, but I'll, I'll think about it. And, and if things become more clear, I'll come back to you. You come back with something that at least allows it to be off your plate mentally. so that that person's not thinking, God, I can't even believe they didn't pay me the respect of. Of getting back to me. That's a practical set of tools for dealing with these things. And I say this as someone who has undoubtedly hurt, let down, disappointed, affected thousands upon thousands of people. over the course of my life who have, and certainly hundreds of people who are close to me in some way, like have some kind of relationship with me where they've expected something and I haven't got back to them. But so many people over the course of my life will have been affected by me doing exactly what you're doing. So I say this with zero judgment, but I've come to believe that it is it is sort of important.

Because.

There will be a time when we really want to be able to go back to that person and ask for advice, ask for help. We need love where we just need good conversation, where we just want to have a good time with somebody. And when we do, we don't want to be the person who feels like Wow, when that person reached out, I didn't have the time of day. And then all of a sudden I needed something and I was Mr. Or Mrs. Charming. None of us want to be that kind of bullshit or at the very least, even if it's not bullshit, we don't want to have been known for having completely uneven relationships with people. And that's kind of another thing you can add to this, Jeff, is make it an identity shift for yourself. I don't want to be seen as a user in my life. I don't want to be seen to be using people. Maybe I can't be relied upon all the time, but I at least have integrity in my interactions with people by being honest with them in my communication and acknowledging them, of course, when they reach out.

Yeah, no judgment here, Jeff. I think between Matt and I, it's something we both have needed to hear at certain points.

Just a quick note to everyone out there that I think Steve, I speak for both of us when I say one of the things we love most right now about the podcast is reading the reviews because we've been putting more effort into this, frankly. having more conversations than we used to have and to know that, you know, we get the download numbers and that's wonderful. That's a number, but it's a number on a screen. When on iTunes, we actually read a review from someone, it becomes real to us the impact that we're able to have through this medium. So anytime you rate the show and leave us a review, it really does mean a lot to us and we really do read every single one of those reviews.

Yeah, we are regularly scanning through those and it's very fashionable to say you don't read any of your reviews. Well, we're reading all of them.

Well, the truth is that we don't get to read every comment across every platform, but because there's a particular sort of drive for us in reaching more people with the podcast, we really are reading all of those reviews right now and it's really, really enjoyable. And of course, when you do go to leave a review, or even if you don't leave a review, subscribe to the podcast because we want to make sure that you don't miss any of the episodes along the way. Yeah.

And also, if you want to get in touch with the show more personally, you can email us at podcast@matthewhussie.com and I am elbows deep in those emails and I'm honestly blown away by just how many of you are listening and engaging with the show. It's honestly overwhelming. And I know we've done years of videos on social media and but there's something very personal about seeing those emails come in. And every time I think, God, it's just me and Matt sitting here, it feels like we're talking to three people. We're not. It's just crazy the amount of you who are listening and loving what we're saying. So if you have an observation, something you just want to say, a joke, anything, it can be really short, drop us a line at podcast@matthewhussie.com We love hearing from you.

Oh, and Steve, I didn't even tell you this, but I had this idea. for people to send us voice notes by email, letting us know either what they think of the show or like you said, just something funny or an observation about Steve or me. You know, it doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be a dig. It could be something nice or it could also be you just making fun of us. Whatever you want.

Preferably something nice. Something don't even put the idea in their heads, frankly.

Well, if you send us a voice note, some kind of voice recording by email, we might incorporate a couple of those into the show as well. So feel free to send those.

Matt, I have a question for you. We have this opportunity where Jeff is copping to being a ghost. He's Bruce Willis seeing it, as Steven would say. But I feel like you haven't actually addressed what he should do about the women in his life that he may have ghosted.

Are you now are you referring to the women that he's ghosted historically or how to approach new people in his life?

I think both if you have a take.

I think there's nothing wrong with. Well, I don't. There's a sort of a bit of a sleeping dogs lie, let sleeping dogs lie approach that you could apply to some people from the past, especially people that you've upset. you could sort of take the approach of do I really. There's a, there's a term in, there's a, in, in Alcoholics Anonymous, when they talk about the step that's, you know, what do they call the step where they have to go to anyone who's been harmed or affected and they essentially make amends, right? It's the step of making amends. The making amends part is make amends unless it would do more harm to make amends. And I suppose you could argue with certain people that if they were really into you and you hurt them and hearing from you again is just going to reopen a wound unnecessarily, then making amends in that situation could be regarded as slightly selfish. You know, your needing to offload your guilt in or by going and making amends with someone who isn't thinking about you. So why put yourself in their head on that particular day or week? But not everyone falls into that category. And there might be some people from a couple of weeks ago or a few weeks ago that we say, hey, I'm so sorry. I completely fell off the radar, and I wanted to apologize because that was rude of me. you know, that's also fine in terms of new people in your life. I think if, look, if you find yourself, I see I have an interesting, well, I suppose a slightly nuanced take on ghosting when it comes to dating, which is that, firstly, it's not ghosting if you don't text someone after a date. I'm not saying in the context of someone you've been seeing really regularly and there's now a genuine kind of relationship forming, but someone we've been on a couple of dates with, I don't think that we should be considered a ghost if we just don't text them after that date. If the same is true the other way around. To me, ghosting is when someone's making attempts to contact you and you are just completely ignoring those attempts. When that's the case, that becomes more egregious because now someone's left wondering, wait, what the hell? I'm literally asking if they're okay or I'm reaching out to them and they've completely ignored me. That to me is a bit different. But, and in those cases, I think if someone's reaching out to us, it's the kind thing to do is to let them know that we're not interested in pursuing anything more or that we don't really have the time right now to date, if that's the truth. Or to give, at the very least, give short answers that make someone realize that you're not, you know, this is the amount of energy you're willing to put in. You don't, you know, we don't owe someone an explanation on everything, and. And we don't owe someone our feelings all the time. But if someone's continuously trying to reach out to us and we're just ignoring them, then that's obviously poor form and. And fairly rude and something that we want to try and not do.

I think there's some things you do leave behind and you accept, you shoulder it. I think there's some things you just have to decide, you don't get closure on every single error you've made. Sometimes it is nice though. There's occasions where it's nice to acknowledge and not expect anything back.

What about the question you always get, Matt, and I don't know if you've ever had a clear answer to this, it's kind of related. But the people who are asking, how do you let someone down easy?

I think that trying to make it not personal is the key. It's kind of like the cliche of, you know, I just didn't think we were a match, is offering someone everything they need to know. Yeah. That I, you know, for whatever reason, it wasn't, the connection wasn't there. I mean, it's kind of even more vague than that. You're not saying the connection wasn't there. You're just saying, I'm not sure we're a match, but I appreciate you coming out to see me. I think that that is some version of that is the kindest thing that we can do, because we're not, you know, no one needs to hear from us, I'm not attracted to you in that way. because that's. Now it's painful. Now it's. It's already. I'm. We're not a match is already kind of painful. But to hear that I'm not attracted to you in that way is tantamount to saying you have no sexual appeal to me. So I think that's where it gets unnecessary. I think telling someone, hey, I just. I didn't feel like we're necessarily a match, but I really. I appreciate your time and I had a really lovely time. That to me, I think, is the kindest way to let someone down.

I think that's an important distinction that people don't think about. We're like, oh yeah, well just, I wasn't feeling the chemistry.

Exactly.

Guys will do that math real quick. If a woman says that to a guy, like, oh, that's something I'm gonna take with me for the next 14 years of therapy.

Yeah, it's brutal. Someone saying they didn't feel chemistry It you may think of that in terms of oh, but that's not saying someone's completely unappealing. That's just saying that this person and I didn't have chemistry. But a lot of people, maybe even most people, are not going to receive it that way. What they're going to hear is I'm unattractive. I am not sexually appealing. I'm undesirable. and they take that personally. So I think, I don't know if off the top of my head, I can think of a safer set of words than I just didn't think that we're necessarily a match. But if someone wants to pry, that's different. If someone says to you, but why don't you think we're a match? That's different. They're asking for an opinion and then you can be, kind, but you'll have to be potentially a little more honest if you want to do that. But if someone hasn't asked for your opinion and all you're really doing is letting them know that their effort.

Is.

Going to be wasted and that you don't want them to waste their energy, then I think that this is the best way to do that. All right, guys. Well, thank you so much for listening again. Go to askmh.com if you would like a 14-day free membership to our Love Life Club. This is the place where we go beyond the conversation of the podcast into real coaching. For those people who are taking their goals seriously right now, who are taking their love life seriously, for those people who are really looking to improve their love for life. You feel like you want to get more out of your life and you want to be around a supportive group of people with me as your coach, with Stephen as your coach on a monthly basis, then come join us. It's askmh.com is where you can go to sign up for a free 14-day membership to the Love Life Club. And you'll also, when you're on that page, get the chance to ask a question that you want answered on one of the Love Life webinars. If you can, if you have time, leave us a review on iTunes. We really appreciate them and we'll see you soon. Thank you, Stephen.

Thank you, sir. Thank you, everyone.

I see the blog sites. Ookey-wook got a new wife. Shorty got a new boo. Yeah, love you. I'm looking for love.

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