Don't Let These Silent Killers Destroy Your Relationship

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Hello, Audrey.

You can't start that softly.

Why?

Because it's the beginning of a podcast. You can't start that soft.

What do you mean? We have to start some, like, some ghastly morning radio.

Hello and welcome back to the Love Life Podcast. I'm Stephen Hussey with me, Matthew Hussey.

No, you.

Audrey.

You don't need to start like that.

You can't start that soft.

You can.

You can.

There's no rules here. You can start like this. Hello, Stephen.

Hello, friends. How's everyone doing?

I'm wearing a t-shirt with a logo on it today. I never wear t-shirts with logos anymore, I realized.

One thing I do know about you, you have never been a logo on the tee guy. You do not like the actual logo on your t-shirt. You never have.

Well, when I was like 14 and DJing, I did wear a some Burberry gear.

Yeah, but they don't have the logo on it.

I'm talking like, Ralph Lauren. People are gonna, people with no context are gonna, like, people in America are gonna think that meant that it was like money was sloshing around. It was, it wasn't, it wasn't.

It was like, yeah, Matt wasn't like.

The win in Vegas DJing.

No, that's just what you, that's what you did is you had just something, a lot of it was just fake, wasn't it? Do you remember that? It was just like, you know, teenagers walking around with like sort of brand names.

Right.

And you were DJing at local clubs?

I was. I was. But in another life. But then I retired the brand names.

And people would come into the DJ booth, ask you for relationship advice, and Matthew Hussey was born.

That's how it happened. That's a completely different origin story and there's absolutely no truth in it whatsoever. Well, welcome to the show, everybody. We should probably get started. We have a great show lined up today. We're gonna be talking about the silent relationship killers. We have a love life line where we're gonna be answering a listener question. Another segment of Steve's sleeves.

These sleeves are getting longer and longer.

David, would you say people are starting to look more forward to Steve's sleeves, or is it still a divisive subject?

It's definitely a craze that is sweeping the nation.

I'd say 97% positive. the feedback.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I do listen intently to what those three percent say about Steve's sleeves.

And those three percent can check out 10 minutes before the end. So everyone wins.

For the three percent that absolutely abhor Steve's sleeves, we apologize.

But we're gonna keep doing it anyway.

We're gonna keep doing it.

There is too many things up his sleeve to quit now. Yeah.

We have some great stuff coming up for all of our Love Life members. No, we haven't found a name for them.

Livloves.

Livloves. is the best we've come up with.

I like it.

So for all of our live loves, on May the 28th, there's a live coaching session with Audrey. And on August the 21st, we have Love Life Live in London. So if you are a Love Life member, you get to come out and see me and Stephen and Audrey live in London town.

Oh, the big smoke.

On the 21st of August.

Were you DJing in your Burberry gear?

It's possible. It's possible.

If you don't show up in your Burberry gear and DJ, I'm not coming.

Okay. Then fine. I will see if I can wrangle a little bit of Burberry and a couple of decks and I'll see you there. By the way, we also in October, for all of you Love Life members, have a Miami member meetup that is happening to coincide with our weekend retreat. Tickets are available, by the way, for the retreat@mhretreat.com But that is happening in Miami, which is very, very exciting. For anyone who is not a member of Love Life or one of our live loves, you can join at joinlovelife.com Hey, you seem to have perked up. You've been really miserable all day.

He has been a bit sheepish, hasn't he? Yeah, stay me down.

Oh, I was absolutely gutted, Steve.

I've been beside myself. Why is that, Matt?

Yeah, well, that's the thing.

You remember the dating made simple event I did on the 20th?

Yeah, yeah.

The one that was attended by You know, over 10,000 people.

Lovely day.

I missed it. Do you mean you missed it? I missed it. I was so busy doing the event, I wasn't able to see it. And I wanted to see how I did.

Ah, that makes sense. Well, you do know you can just go online and watch the whole event again right now.

You are a liar and a cheat and a deceptionist.

No, it's just a fact. If you go to lovelifereplay.com, you can watch the whole event in its full glory.

Here you go. I pulled it up on my phone.

Oh, I suppose there it is right there. Sorry about the whole deceptionist thing.

No, I mean, it's fine.

Well, it does say here that you can only watch this until the 30th of May.

That's right.

So if you do want to see it, and I will be watching it right now after this podcast, you can go to loveliferplay.com, but only until the 30th of May. so we wanted to talk about the silent relationship killers.

Yeah, kind of the Converse to our last episode where we talked about a lot of stuff, a lot of research about what makes relationships work. We kind of want to flip it and look at what are the small, Insidious things. that grow into big, bad things that kill relationships.

And this is important because a lot of relationships end in ways that people didn't see coming. Things build up over time and things can end up being catastrophic to a relationship that needn't have been if we were able to reach them in time. The emphasis here is on the silent relationship killers. So, what are they?

Well, we did talk about the Gottmans.

Last week and... Not the bloody Gottmans again.

Well, they're very good and I do want to talk about them because they do great work. But they did say about how one way you can predict a breakup with like 95% accuracy is the way that a couple conflicts with each other. And they talk about the four horsemen of the apocalypse in communication and those four things are criticism, contempt, defensiveness and stonewalling. Criticism being attacking your partner's character or personality rather than a specific behavior. Contempt speaking from a place of superiority, mocking, eye rolling, sarcasm, name calling. Defensiveness, self-protection in the form of denying responsibility, making excuses or flipping blame, and stonewalling, withdrawing from interaction to avoid conflict, shut down, go silent, physically leave. Those are the conflict. In conflict, if you do any of those four things, they believe they can predict your relationship will fail.

If you do them how often? Like, if it's a pattern of behaviour in your relationship.

If it's a regular form of dealing with differences.

Let's take those one by one, because you said some really important things there. So, criticism, you said you talked about attacking their character, as opposed to taking issue with the behaviour.

Yeah.

These are really important.

You could say, like, you never think about anyone but yourself.

Yeah, or you're so selfish, as opposed to that thing you did was selfish. you're so selfish. There's something about that that's very. It's damning of them at their core.

Yes.

There's a. I think it's Dal Carnegie, an old piece of advice. But the idea of give someone the identity you want them to have, that there's something very dangerous about ascribing an identity to them that means they now have to, like, convince you that they're not bad at their core.

Right.

As opposed to giving them. I think the way that he talks about it in one of the books is this idea of ascribing a righteous motive to someone. Because no one wants to think of themselves as a bad person, right? And by the way, if we're going to stay with someone, we should probably start by not thinking of them as a bad person. Because It doesn't make sense to stay with anyone you think is fundamentally not a good human being. So if you start from a place of this person is good and they wouldn't intentionally try to do something bad, then you can scribe the identity of them being a good person who maybe did maybe acted selfishly in the moment or maybe did something with consequences that they didn't anticipate. But it's far easier for anyone to come back from a behavior and a mistake than it is to come back from a fundamentally broken identity.

Yes. If you think that is how they see me and I cannot change that view, you lose motivation. You're kind of like, well, that's, that's what I am to them. And, and I think that's when people get resentful. And resentment is kind of like the, the most toxic thing, right?

I also want to extend this point about criticism to also just trying to change somebody and generally not accepting them for who they are. I think that's a really big relationship killer as well because I think it's okay to, you know, want your partner to improve and always be a better person. We were always working on ourselves, right? All of us, we're always trying to be better people. But going into a relationship with a bunch of things that you kind of would change or want to change about your partner or that bother you about them and their personality or their habits. I think over time, that can only be a destructive thing for the relationship.

I think with criticism as well, when you argue or criticize someone, something, a, they're saying you acted selfishly there, but there's also, you kind of have to couple it with an acknowledgment of the things they did right, like almost saying, I know you did X, Y and Z and you were trying to X or you did do that well the other day. I saw you were trying then, but you did this selfish thing, this lazy thing, this frustrating thing again. Because if someone just feels like I just get attacked for the things I'm wrong on, but you never notice when I got it right or when I tried. So I think that's crucial.

That's so true. That's so true.

And also the mistake of throwing in like five other things you're frustrated about, because that's it ends up diluting your argument about the specific thing that you're trying to remedy or have a conversation about. Okay, so that was the, I thought that was just insightful about criticism, criticize behavior, not character.

Yes.

The contempt point.

Yeah.

So, this is you. You described one of the things as eye rolling.

Mm-.

Right.

I've heard them talk about the eye rolling thing. Why is eye rolling?

We have this joke, don't we?

Which Audrey has jokingly said she thinks she does sometimes.

So we have this joke. Matt and I have a. A running kind of playful pattern of behavior where we make fun of each other and we pretend to be mad at each other for small things. It's like. It's just a stupid thing that we do. But I end up like, because I'm really leaning into it, like I'll start eye rolling and huffing. But then I read somewhere that apparently eye rolling is one of the biggest predictors of divorce. And then I was like, oh my God, I need to stop doing this because even as a joke, like what if I'm like, you know, what if unconsciously Matt is reading that as me eye rolling at him and it's going to damage our relationship. So it became this joke where whenever.

We eye roll at each other, I'm like, don't do that.

It just makes me want to do it more. Well, I will say in your In your defense, Audrey, I don't see you as a person who expresses contempt. I don't think you ever really do that. You're very appreciative of Matthew, I think, in general, and very praising of him. Would you say that's true, babe?

I don't remember any specific eye rolls from you. You've probably rolled your eyes a couple of times. I'm sure I've rolled my eyes at you. You've rolled my, you roll your eyes.

A lot in jest.

Yeah, that's my point. It's like a joke.

Yeah.

But I don't look at it and go, oh, no, she's done, she's put the curse on our relationship because she's rolled her eyes at me. I like, me and Audrey have this thing where we, I feel like this, we're gonna have to be care, we have to beat these out because it's just too many f***s. But like, we'll just start going into a thing where I'm like, I f*** off. And she'll be like, no, you f*** off. And I'll be like, no, you f*** off. No, f*** off, mate. And we just start going back and forth like that for a good, like, two minutes.

As a joke.

Yeah, as a joke. But it's one of my favorite things. Yeah, they'll do it in front of me.

We've done it in front of David.

Before, and it scared him.

David thought, oh, God, the podcast has formed a partnership. We upset David.

I have to go seek consolation from that Capibara. From our Capibara in the corner there.

With the toast around his head.

Yeah.

I think another way contempt comes out is, well, you know, when you're with a couple, at like a party or something, and you see like one of them is really just repeatedly disrespecting the other and just clearly just is treating them like they're a bit of a joke. Like, oh God, there they are like saying something dumb. And there's this kind of underlying feeling of they're always undermining them in public.

Yeah, there's certain things that you, when people sort of shamelessly just make life difficult for each other in front of other people. I always think that's a really, like, it's not good.

Like, they'll be telling you something they do, and then their partner will go, you don't do that. Like, you never do that. You just constantly... That's not what happens. Like calling them a liar in public.

It wasn't that many.

Oh, you did that once. You don't go rock climbing. Just let them have it.

Yeah. Or when someone's just, like, standing next to their partner and they're like, Can we go? Why don't you just pretend to be a team in front of everyone? Just like 60 seconds.

Yeah, those make me very uncomfortable.

It shows like a lack of there's something there that's like there's a rift in the team. Like you gotta back each other up in public. You've gotta have, you've gotta like, you two have to make each other look good.

Yes.

Your job is to make each other look good. You want, like, it should be the equivalent of, like, you're on, I'm on stage, and I just gave a speech and to a very lukewarm audience, and Audrey's at the back of the room just clapping.

Uncle!

Yeah. He's great, isn't he? You know, it should be, you've got, like, that's your teammate.

But you've just said something really, really interesting because I do want, I have a lot of compassion for people who are listening, who are in relationships, and they're like, oh, well, maybe I do that sometimes. Or maybe, like, I go through these things because it's hard to get it perfect all the time because you are dealing with two people who sometimes have been together a really long time. Resentments have built. And, you know, in, in the case of, for instance, like, I don't know, the person who, you know, might criticize their partner and say, you don't do that. Maybe they feel undervalued and underappreciated at home, and then they struggle to feel like their partner's being appreciated in public because they feel really underappreciated. And so I think there's always, I'm not saying it's right to do that, but I think it's also important to apply a lot of self-compassion and almost trying to go on, trying to go on an excavation as to why that behavior is happening, because Oftentimes, if there's a rift in the team, it's because one or multiple people is feeling like their needs aren't being met and they're not feeling respected and they're not feeling kind of appreciated. And actually, to say to that person, you should be more of a team, doesn't really fix the core issue of what they're suffering with. And so I do want to add that nuance as well for people because I think it's important.

Yeah, what resentment in the relationship is not being addressed that is leaking in public.

Exactly, yeah. And if you find yourself acting like that, that's the clue that there's something going on and there's nothing wrong with that so long as you are willing to address it rather than just keep doing it and keep allowing it to get worse and worse and worse because that is when it will eventually kill your relationship.

Before we go on with the episode, have you tried Matthew AI yet? If you haven't, it is like sitting on the sofa with me next to you and asking me the question that you so want to ask and so need an answer to, and then getting a highly tailored contextual response from me that isn't just a single question but can turn into a full-blown multi-hour conversation with me about anything you are going through right now. You can ask practical questions like, what should I text back? What does this conversation mean that someone had with me? What should I do next with this person? Or you can have much deeper conversations like, how do I improve my confidence? How can I get over this breakup? How do I deal with my attachment issues? And many, many more. It can be as deep as you like, it can be as practical as you like, but it is a game changer for the people who use it. And my word to you is that it will leave you feeling better than when you started. If you haven't tried it yet, you can go and ask a free question. Actually, you can ask a few minutes of free questions by going to askmh.com so that you can try it and see what all the fuss is about. people are loving this. I get more comments about this than anything else we do right now. So go to askmh.com and try it for yourself. Use your free questions and see what Matthew AI can do for you. So defensiveness.

So number three, defensiveness. That's self-protection in the form of denying responsibility, making excuses or flipping blame to someone else. You're kind of never taking accountability. You're saying, oh, it's not my fault. We're late. You always take forever.

Yeah.

This is something I talk about in the book as, like, one of the kind of ultimate red flags that makes relationships really, really hard. Because if someone can't take ownership and if someone can't say sorry, then they really can't grow. they can't improve. It's one of the reasons I remember a psychologist, Guy Winch, talking to me and saying, you know, narcissism is associated much of the time with incompetence. And the reason that it's associated with incompetence is because narcissists have an almost impossible time admitting fault. and if you can't admit fault, you can't learn. And if you can't learn, you can't improve. So you remain incompetent. And that happens in relationships all the time where people just cannot improve because they can't take ownership. And even if they do improve, they try to improve. in quiet away from you, where there's no humility to it. There's no, like, I'm doing this for us, and I am like, I've heard you, and I'm gonna improve this. They just.

They.

They want to just go away and have whatever their own form of improvement looks like and come back and. And, you know, it's a solitary Journey.

Yeah.

That they're on, and that's why it's. being in a relationship with someone who can never apologize and who only gets defensive is an incredibly lonely experience.

One of the biggest red flags, in my opinion, someone who can't apologize.

Yeah.

And take accountability.

And the blaming comes with that. Right. Because if you can't, if it's, if you can't take responsibility, then you need to shift it somehow. So then it goes to the other person. Yeah.

Or you're crazy or you're overreacting or. you're too much or, you know, all of those things.

Okay, so take us to stonewalling.

Stonewalling, that's withdrawing from interaction to avoid conflict. So shutting down, going silent, you just leave without any resolution. Yeah, I think the problem with this is it makes your partner feel abandoned often, and it makes them feel like there's coldness, there's disconnection. You You don't solve things together. They just have to move on and get over it because you're not gonna participate in joining them. You don't ever deal with anything real. You just kind of shut down and leave. That's your way of like, I'll come back when I feel better. And it just makes your partner feel very lonely, I think.

It really activates any, like, it makes people feel very abandoned. Yeah, it can even feel like a kind of betrayal, like where you left you left me to just anxiously ruminate about this to the point where I liken it to a child who almost loses some innocence because they're just left in a room to cry. I don't. I'm not talking about babies or. I'm talking about, like, when a parent just abandons a child and freezes them out and that child goes through stages, right? Is there's, like, a fear there and a survival instinct of, you know, something awful is happening or is gonna happen because I've been left and. that can't. Some. No one can stay in that state forever because it's too painful. So at a certain point, it's like short circuits and you. Someone stops crying. But it's not that they've stopped crying necessarily because they're no longer in pain. You can stop crying because you've gone somewhat numb. You can stop crying because you dissociate. You dissociate. And when we do that in relationships, when someone stonewalls us and we go through that kind of abandonment and what feels like a form of betrayal, and it is in some ways a form of betrayal, it's a betrayal of our safety, and we're just left to anxiously ruminate until the point where we either dissociate or distract ourselves. That robs us of a genuine, of a deep feeling of safety. It's almost like I now don't trust you with my emotions. I don't trust you not to hold me hostage. It now feels like this is a hostage situation and that something kind of breaks in there. I think there's a loss of innocence in there because you realize we're not playing by the same rules.

I.

If I saw you hurting like this, or if I saw you struggling with something, I would want to make sure you're okay. But you saw me struggling with something, and you were quite happy not just to freeze me out, but to then come back and just carry on as if nothing happened. I can't now trust you. with my feelings. I can't. And I res. More than that, I resent you for holding me hostage.

Yeah.

There's so much there, though, in all of these behaviors where I think.

You.

Know, like, did you guys grow up thinking or being told, being fed a rhetoric, which was almost like relationships are about, like, there's always, like, a power Dynamic going on, and there's always someone that loves the other person more, and it's always about, like, almost a kind.

Of, like, keeping scores.

Yeah.

Like the seesaw of, like, almost like who's on top at what moment and who, you know, I think a lot of relationships operate like that, where, you know, one or two of the parties have a wound. Maybe they're anxious, maybe they've been through a traumatic childhood or whatever, and they try and control their way into feeling safe. And so when their partner feels and there's, I'm not condemning this behavior because on the kind of more sinister and extreme end of it, you have narcissism. So I do think that needs to be addressed. But, you know, on the more kind of the less, I suppose, the less toxic side, you have people, a lot of people who are not emotionally conscious enough and mature enough to realize that what they're trying to do is they're trying to put their partners on the back foot. so they feel like they're in control. And it's really interesting because in so many of these things that we've talked about, you know, you can only sustain a relationship for so long where you're constantly in a kind of push-pull dynamic. Because a relationship actually, the only relationships that work are relationships of equals. And if two people come to the table willing to be wrong and, you know, accepting the fact that sometimes they're going to mess up and sometimes they're going to make mistakes and sometimes they're going to be the ones who are saying sorry and who are going to have to work on themselves and just always coming in with so much humility about who you are as a, as a partner and how you can improve. I think, like, if you're not doing that, if you don't realize that that is kind of the, the magic source to a relationship, then you end up falling into these other traps. And, and it's really sad because a lot of people who have these behaviors at the core, they just want to be loved.

Yeah, I think the, the day, what, what a lot of us are afraid of when we say sorry is that we will get eaten.

Yes.

Like, if I shows my weakness and I admit fault, I can't trust the other person not to take full advantage of the fact that I'm admitting some fault. Like, that's gonna be the only truth of this situation, and I'm gonna have lost all of my power. And often that's because we came from some kind of dynamic where it was perceived as shameful or weak to be wrong. We felt we couldn't be wrong with a certain person because they would just eat us alive if we showed them a a chink in the armor. And so it's like we don't feel safe enough to admit we're wrong. It's one of the things I don't know that it gets talked about enough that in order to admit fault, we have to feel safe.

That's so true.

And you know, you, Audrey, are so good at this. You've been a very healing kind of presence for me because I, I think I had a healthy dose of that, of thinking that, and it's funny because I'm pretty, I think I'm pretty good at taking ownership in life in general, but I think there was a, a kind of fear romantically of letting my guard down by, by admitting fault in an argument and being like, Yeah, I messed up there in the way I said that, or I shouldn't have done that. And part of that was this feeling of not wanting to be vulnerable, that it would be hugely vulnerable to say I was wrong about that. And you have always been so willing to, A, be going back to the point about criticism, you've always been so willing to be really generous towards my character and to be like, I know you're such a good person, that you're one of the best people I know. And I know that where this comes from for you. And, you know, I know why you did that. I get. I understand you, and I know where that comes from. And you doing that was like, you know, me feeling very seen. But at the same time, when you would be unafraid to say when you felt you were wrong and to say, even by the way, in an argument where really it was me, like, I'm the one who owed an apology and did apologize, you would still say, I know I didn't approach that very well. like, I was upset with you, and I really appreciate what you said. And I know I didn't approach this conversation as well as I could have, or I know that I didn't, you know, like that also, like, it was something healing about that because I realized it didn't have to be either or.

Well, if you're arguing, you should both be sorry because you shouldn't. You shouldn't be arguing. And it's sad that you as a team, as a group, you know, two people, as a pair of people, are having this fight and if you're not both sorry something is wrong. Unless it's literally a person sat here going, Calm down, I don't want to fight, you know, blah, blah, blah. And any other person screaming at them, in which case, yeah, there's a person who should apologize and someone's literally done nothing wrong. But often if it's an argument, you're having a back and forth. And so there's something for both parties to be sorry about.

But I think that there's a, if I were to define how I think you show up to situations, It's, there's a real sense of strength and, and, you know, call it strength, call it confidence, call it standards, but there's a real sense of strength about it's important someone owns it when they're wrong in your life. But that gets blended with humility where you're able to share whatever part you played. and generosity of spirit, where you're able to fully acknowledge that someone, like the best parts of someone, at the same time as they're apologizing. And that has all three of those things together have a very, very potent effect. And I think that that's in, in a way, it solves so much of what we're talking about here in terms of criticism, contempt, defensiveness and stonewalling. If you can have a healthy mix of standards for yourself, you know, self-respect that you, people own problems around you or own the things they do wrong around you. But you combine that with humility and generosity of spirit that makes for a really, really great relationship. I want to remind you that we have our live Retreat happening in October this year in Miami, Florida, on the 18th and 19th. This is my signature program that I have been running for 17 years of my life, you may be asking yourself, what's my personal reason for attending a retreat like this? Let me tell you. First, we all have patterns that get in the way of us being where we could be in life, whether it's finding the love that we want to find, whether it's having the career we want, or just getting the enjoyment and the happiness out of life that we deserve. We have patterns that get in the way. And most of these patterns follow us for the rest of our lives unless we do something to interrupt them. So if you are sick and tired of these patterns governing your life and you want to break them once and for all, that is what I do with you. The next thing I do is I show you how to regulate your emotional states. Let me tell you, the quality of your life is the quality of your emotional states. Whatever the circumstances of your life are, they do not control your happiness nearly as much as what is going on in your mind. So I show you how to take control of your mind. by taking control of your emotional states. I give you very practical tools for that. And the third thing I do is I show you how to transform your confidence once and for all, but in a very meaningful and lasting way by changing your relationship with yourself. We all have an inner voice, a voice that doubts us, a voice that berates us, a voice that's too hard on us, a voice that tells us we're not good enough. when you learn how to change that voice, you change your relationship with yourself. And that is the number one thing that builds what I call core confidence. So if any of those three things, patterns, emotional regulation and core confidence are things you want to work on, if this is the deep work you know you need to do, you need to be there in Miami this October. Tickets are available at mhretreat.com. grab yours now while they're available. There are limited seats in the venue. and I will see you in Miami this October.

On the topic of broader relationship killers, do you think that we're talking a lot here about communicating when you have differences and solving problems? Do you think some people just, especially in the modern day, just don't expect to even have differences or problems in the first place? Like there's There's just expectations, mismatched expectations about how easy it should be. Like, I've even heard a joke before about how it's like some people are just looking for the female version of themselves or the male version of themselves.

I can't think of anything that's horrible.

But they're just looking that they don't want someone who has different needs or expectations, and we think it should just be like, easier than it is.

I mean, that's crazy. That's wild.

And we have a clip on this, and I just want to show you it so I can get your take on it before we answer.

You really want. Think for a minute. You know, if you're going to get.

Married.

And you want a marriage that's going to last, not necessarily the happiest marriage, you know, or one that, that Martha Stewart will talk about or anything, but you want a marriage that's going to last. What quality do you look for in a spouse? One quality. Do you look for brains? Do you look for humor? Do you look for character? Do you look for beauty?

No.

You look for low expectations. That is the marriage that's gonna last. Both have low expectations. I mean it, and I want my partners to be on the low side on expectations coming in because I want the marriage to last. It's a financial marriage when they join me at Berkshire. And I don't want them to think I'm gonna do things that I'm not gonna do. So that's our guiding principle.

I am, so I know that you have really enjoyed learning from Warren Buffett over the years. What, can you elaborate on what you think he means by that? 'Cause I know a lot of people will hear that and go, that can't be right.

Well, I think there says something. And this is what I mean when say, like, you know, people don't expect there to be differences, or they don't expect there to be conflicts or, you know, things they have to solve. But I think this idea of, like, acceptance to what Audrey's point is, acceptance of who you're with and what they're like and what's reasonable to expect this person to do. and be like. And I think there is a sense where, like, if you both always expect the best of everything, my partner's going to be the maximum of every trait I love of, like, intelligence and the perfect humor and the perfect way their needs are just going to match mine really perfectly. And, you know, they're never going to be difficult. And it's like, yeah, of course, then a lot of marriage is going to feel really dissatisfying. and I do think there is a thing a lot now in relationships where people are always comparing their relationship to an imaginary perfect version that's like, imagine if they sanded off all the edges off my partner and they also had a bit more of this and that, oh, it'd be perfect then. And I do think there's a sense where just a lot of things, it's like in life a lot of times you'll be happier if you start with like lower expectations of what it's gonna be like. And everything is a more of a positive surprise then. And you don't crumble when you expect you're gonna have conflicts. They're gonna have some needs I find annoying. I don't understand certain things, but, yeah, I just almost. It's not like you accept the worst, but I think you also start with, like, I. There's only so much that's reasonable for. to expect a person to satisfy.

What's that that saying? It's happiness is reality minus expectations.

Yes.

Kind of that, right? That's what you're saying.

And I don't know if some people find that depressing. I don't, because I do think it's like for having a good day. It's like if your expectations are always like perfect day is when I'm happy, you don't have a lot of perfect days. But if your expectations start low of like, what's necessary for me to feel great for good today, kind of everything that good that happens above that is kind of like a bonus.

Yeah, I think a huge part of it is coming to terms with the way that life is. Like how life actually is. There's a great moment in the show Rick and Morty where Rick and Summer and Morty, they're all in family therapy together after a completely disastrous series of events. And Rick is just falling apart, and they're in family therapy. And Rick hates the idea that they have to go through family therapy. He's just like, this is a waste of time. I don't care. You're a hack. Why are we even here? And the therapist goes on this incredible monologue to kind of basically say, Look, you don't have to be here. And the reality is being here is work and it takes time and energy like brushing your teeth. It takes work and it's often boring and laborious and some people are willing to brush their teeth. and do that work, and other people would rather die. And it's such a, like, I get chills as I say, because it's such a poignant moment in the episode. It says it's a very sobering moment for, this is what reality is. Reality is, an extraordinary amount of repetition. It is routine. It is waking up every day. At sometimes I literally wake up and I think I have, like, I'm having the same day again. It's like I'm doing the same. I I'm going, I'm getting in the shower. I've done this thousands of times. I'm washing my hair the same way I wash my hair every day. I'm brushing my teeth. I'm getting ready. I'm going to Jiu Jitsu. I'm like, what? This is. like, at a certain point, you go, this is weird. I'm doing the same thing every day. But you also realize at a certain point, what's the alternative? There's certain things I have to do to keep my body in check so that it doesn't fall apart on me in old age. There's certain things I have to do to make sure that I have a career still a year from now. and that we're in a financially independent position. There's like, there's so much repetition involved in life. And accepting that reality is, I think, a very, in some ways, a very liberating thing, because you realize it doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong. It's. This is what life is like.

It.

I know when I get on stage and I do a retreat, there are always people who come and see me or when, if I'm on tour, there are people who I know. And I know, by the way, because I've been one of those people many, many years ago, I was one of those people. There will be people in the audience who see me on stage and they're like, I want to do that. That's what I want to do for my career. And what they're seeing is this me on stage performing and the lights and the like that fun of it all, the big event and all of that. But that's like 5% of my whole year. Yeah. Most of the year is spent doing everything, sat at home on a laptop, managing teams, like writing another script for a video, sitting down and doing it all over again. Like, that's what most of it is.

And.

It ends up coming down to, are you someone who really do you want the reality of it, or do you want the idea of it? That, I believe, is why so many people struggle when it comes to relationships, because we want the idea of a relationship. We love the idea of waking up with someone on a Sunday morning and the sparks and the fireworks and the fun of finding love. The reality of it is that you now have a thing that you're, as Warren Buffett says in that clip, like, if you want it to last forever, then there's all sorts of things you're going to have to do to tend to that relationship. And it is going to be repetitive. But guess what? So is being single. So is going on yet another date with someone that you're not that interested in. Or waking up with someone after a hookup and being like, okay, it didn't change my life. Maybe it was fun, but it didn't change my life. I'm not now saved because I had a hookup with a hot person. I'm not now thinking like there. I did. I did it. I'm happy now. Like, it's being single is also incredibly repetitive. So it's making peace with the reality of how things actually are. And then when you work from that reality, you get to improve your reality because you're now not trying to live up to some idea. Instead, you're going, this is how life is. Now let me make real life better.

What you just said really reminds me of something I read today. You know Celeste Barber on Instagram who I love. This is, by the way, if anyone doesn't follow her, you should follow her right now. She's amazing and very funny. She's a comedian. She posted a photo of her and her husband and said a love letter to my husband on our 12th wedding anniversary. Wow, this is fun. I love you. This is hard. Thank you. I'm sorry, you're welcome. We need milk. And I thought it was perfectly encapsulating of what you're talking about. The mundane and the ups and the downs, and it's just it's never gonna be one thing, right? It's never gonna be just amazing all the time. It can't be.

And just to put a button to my original point, you still choose well at the beginning. It's still like if you're gonna it's like your career. You still choose the career that fits you really, really well. But like with the career, you expect even your dream career, even your dream person, it's gonna have, like, mundane. It's gonna have bits that are tough. It's gonna have bits that aren't a highlight. It's gonna have Peaks, it's gonna have hard bits. And I. Yeah, I just think, again, the expectations thing, it's like, expect that those things will come.

I couldn't agree more.

Well, I think it's time to do what is my favorite part after Steve's leaves, of course, of the episode. And that is Love Lifeline.

Who do we have today?

So this is a voice note from one of our live loves. Is this gonna stick?

I don't know, honestly.

Let's see.

Her name is Samin. And David, please could you play Samin's voice note?

Hi, my question is how to know that what kind of trait and the things that you are seeing as red flag or green flag wouldn't change after getting married. So I was married for four years and my ex-husband used to be very friendly, female friends, very close female friends and I actually ignored that initially because I thought that will change after marriage but I did not and that was one of the reason of getting divorced. so that's what my question is. If you got it.

So she got divorced because she ignored it in the beginning that her husband had a lot of close female friends, but it started really bothering her, presumably. Is that what she's saying?

Yeah, I think it turned out to be a red flag. I don't know if he cheated or if he ended up getting too close to them in ways that was simply inappropriate, but, yeah, it sounds like She kind of gave him the benefit of the doubt before the marriage because it's like people are allowed to have friends. And then afterwards it turned out to be a red flag. This is a big question because it gets to the heart of what if someone changes after marriage or what if, you know, certain aspects of their character only come out after I've already said I do, which is not an uncommon experience for people.

And you do hear that a lot. You know, a lot of people say the moment we got married, he or she changed. That's actually a really common thing that you hear.

It speaks to not getting married too fast as just a simple rule. I think that there are some people who do seem to get married very, very quickly. And there are certain aspects of people that you just can't really know in a year. We like to think that we learn everything there is to know about someone in that space of time, especially if it's been very intense. But the, the truth is we, we don't, you know, we have friendships that change over the years because four years in, that friend behaves in a way that we really don't like, and we see aspects of their character that sort of surprise us. So it's quite, it can be quite disconcerting and even scary to think that I could marry someone three years in who I really think I know, and then all of a sudden find that there's someone entirely different, or at the very least that there are some serious problems that are coming out or that they frankly just stop trying. You know, there's another one. They just, oh, they just out of nowhere, they just seem to stop putting in the effort that they used to. These are really, really difficult things. And I think it certainly speaks to taking our time. It also speaks to being very careful to have lots and lots of conversations about things before you get there. What does marriage mean to you? What does loyalty look like to you? Do we share the same vision of what trying in a relationship looks like, of what commitment looks like over time? I even heard something interesting recently this was. I think this was anecdotal, but there was a lawyer. Where did I see this? It's on one of our peers YouTube channels. But there was a lawyer saying that couples who sign a prenup and go through that process together are more likely to stay together based on his experience.

Because aspects of them would get revealed in that process.

Because they either don't make it or because to the wedding day or because what he says is the kinds of people who can have those conversations with each other and have the hard conversations, maybe have friction over parts of it and come out the other side. are the kinds of people who can communicate better when it comes to a marriage. Now, I don't know how, whether that Bears out statistically or not, but it made sense to me as an idea that anything that forces those kinds of really challenging conversations ahead of time reveals things about each other that for some people only get revealed. in a divorce. For most people, they only know who their partner is in those difficult moments at the point of a divorce. And by then, obviously it's too late because now it's like, oh my God, I'm dealing with a monster here and I never knew they would behave this way.

It reminds me of that book, is it called Eight Dates?

Was it a New York Times article or something like that?

I don't know. I know it's a book. maybe I've got 8 chapters. And it's this idea of you should have eight dates. And on those dates, you focus the conversation around eight different subjects. One of them being money, another one being family, another one being, I can't remember, but there's all these different, there's eight of them. I'd have to look it up.

I do remember that one. There was a New York Times article on it. Yeah.

One of them being trust and commitment, the other one being addressing conflict, another one being sex and intimacy. work and money, family, fun and adventure, and growth and spirituality. And the idea behind it is they give you a bunch of questions that you ask each other to see how well matched you are in all of these subjects, because presumably these subjects are the subjects that are the root of so many divorces and separations. So it's kind of what you're saying. It's like if you're not able to have those very, very important conversations around things like money or you know, a really big one is family and like boundaries around family and what does, how much do you see your family and how much do they know about your relationship and what are the boundaries there about kind of what you share with your family, about the relationship, et cetera. You know, those are such important conversations to have and they really do lead to breakups when people don't have them because if you avoid them, they end up being these massive sources of conflict where you realize your values are just not aligned. and it's really difficult to come back from a misalignment in values. I think that's actually why a lot of people break up. It's, it's, you can agree to disagree on the small stuff, but if it's on the big stuff, it's, that's tough.

Well, it's like if you have very different, like, loyalty was one of them, right? Some people's version of loyalty is like, oh, I'm chill about you being friends with exes, and we both do that, and that's cool. And some people, it's like, if you talk to someone else at a party, that's, like, not okay, and that's flirting and you know, if you're really mismatched there, like, if anyone or anyone's ever had that, it's like you just feel completely stifled. Like, we do not see the same on this at all.

Yeah.

And on the flip side of that, for some people, loyalty is, you know, I'm loyal to. I don't cheat on you, but I do, you know, like girls pictures and message other women on social media, but I don't do anything there. I'm just, you know, just being friendly and just being flirty and whatever, and also, like, stop. stop trying to box me in versus another person who's like, you know, that's completely inappropriate to me, and that makes me feel really anxious and insecure, and I don't trust that. So, yeah, I think. I think there's so. Loyalty is. We talked about this in the last episode, and by the way, if anyone hasn't listened to the last episode, you should definitely go and do that. But we talked a lot about loyalty in the last episode and the importance of it in relationships. It is the Bedrock of a lot of things. But I would argue a lot of these subjects we've covered. that this book covers. Sorry, the eight dates is, is the Bedrock of really kind of all relationships and really understanding. And to, you know, Samin's question, it's kind of, maybe there were not enough conversations. I don't know, Samin. Maybe you tell me that you did speak about it and you felt like, you know, you were kind of tricked and lied to, but perhaps there wasn't enough conversation around kind of. you know, what you seem, what you deem as appropriate in terms of the relationships with those friends, those female friends, and what he deemed appropriate. And having those conversations early on, even if they result in the breakup, is much better than having them later on and then resolving in a divorce.

I also think just setting a, creating a culture for your relationship where everything is on the table to talk about. no matter how hard it is.

Yeah.

Is a really powerful thing.

Yeah.

You know, we've literally had conversations where it's. It's like if you're ever struggling with the relationship or attraction or, you know, if you're ever struggling with thoughts about someone else, you can come to me about that.

You have to come to me about that.

Yeah.

Like, you've literally said that. Like, you have to come to me about that. And I think that that's, at firstly, it's incredibly Brave, but it's what it does is set a kind of tone and a culture that says nothing is off limits. I am your best friend. I am your greatest supporter. I No one cares about your happiness more than I do. My goal other than my own happiness is your happiness. So there is nothing you can't come and share with me in advance so that we can figure it out together as a team.

And it can't be when we start to, let's say it's attraction and you start to go, maybe I'm losing attraction. the risk is that instead of it being you and your partner against the loss of Attraction, it becomes you and the loss of Attraction against your partner. It can never be you and the problem against your partner. It always has to be you and your partner against a problem. But to your point, your partner has to, and you have to make it so that anything can be talked about. Otherwise they're not going to feel like they can bring that to you and then they do have no, they have no other choice than to to make it them and the problem against you.

Yeah, it is, is, is huge. That way of thinking is huge. And look, you can achieve that by have if you're really great at communication together, I think you can achieve a lot of this between you before marriage, before getting to that point. But you might do it with a therapist. It might be that you have a therapist for, for the point. for the purpose of let's have any, like, let's have some challenging conversations together about the future, about the way we see life, about how we think we'd handle it if problems came up. Like, let's do that with someone there who's trained. Either way, having those difficult conversations now, as uncomfortable as they may be, is one of the, the safeties against those future issues. And you can't mitigate against everything. You can't account for every possible thing that could go wrong in a marriage or what could be unexpected. But I think we can have a lot more conversations than we do, and we can check ourselves in those romantic moments where we go, let's. I'm feeling very romantic about marriage right now. But let's have also a very sober approach to what marriage means to us. And I don't think that just because someone proposes, we should feel pressured into staying in a romantic mode with that person all the way until the wedding day. Because that, that for some people, firstly, I don't think you should be surprised by a marriage proposal.

Controversial.

To me, if you're surprised by a.

Proposal, it means you haven't communicated well enough.

Fuck is going on? Why is that surprise? Oh my god, I can't believe it. Can't you? Where have you been? Where have you been? How is this- what? Somehow you're completely ignorant to how they feel about you, or they've done such a great job of hiding the fact that they want to spend the rest of their life with you.

You?

What are you like? This isn't a surprise birthday party. It's your life. How is that surprising? So to me, when someone's shocked, I had no idea that they were gonna. That they wanted to marry me. You guys should talk more. You. Even if you just said yes, you guys should now spend a lot of time talking about this. Hey, I know I said yes, but we have a lot of conversations that we need to have.

Right?

Even if you say yes, fine. You said yes, you had the romantic moment, great. Now we need to talk. This is real because it's your life.

They never showed that bit on the Instagram proposals.

David is ferociously nodding in the corner.

Well, guys, this leads us nicely into what happens after the Romantic bit, after the proposal. And our Steve's sleeves feature today is all about that.

Really?

It is.

That's a really natural Segway.

People should know that we. Audrey and I never know what is going to happen in Steve's sleep.

We never know what's a surprise to us.

It's like a. A proposal that shocks us.

It's a huge risk.

A magical, magical cave. those sleeves.

Well, Steve sleeves today, we're going to return to a one we did before, but a different version. We're going to play compatibly never after. All right, so we're going to look at some famous couples from Disney and animated films, and we're going to speculate on why it didn't work out. Why didn't it work out? What resentments could have killed the relationship? after the couple got together.

There can't be that many Disney couples that didn't stay together.

No, no, it's hypothetical, babe.

It's like... Oh, yeah, like a year after.

Yeah, I was a bit slow on the uptake.

It always ends at the bit where they get married. Got it, got it.

And then the credits roll.

Okay, so you're saying... 10 years on.

What'S going on in that couple? We're gonna guess what resentment might have damaged or killed that relationship.

So after the credit, like the couple got together, it's the end of the Disney movie, the credits roll, what the problems that now happen that we didn't see?

Yes. And I actually asked Matthew AI to speculate on some of them himself. So we're going to see some of his answers as well.

All right.

So Simba and Nala from the Lion King, why didn't it work out?

Wait, so we're just going with the pre-supposition that it didn't work out. It's not even like, what problems could they have had?

Yes.

In this Steve's sleeves, they did break up. And I have to say why.

All of the Disney couples broke up.

That's so heartbreaking.

Yeah. I don't want to talk about it. I just want to start, but I'm going to play along. I'm going to go with this, but.

I just want to say shame on you. Can't we just say, can't we just say like, what's it's 10 years after, what have they been through and are they still together? Because some of them might be fine.

No, because we already did that.

No, she's saying that in this hypothetical, they have to, they've broken up.

Oh, God.

Okay. So in a way, that gets us off the hook. Because we're not ruining these relationships.

We've got some angry emails now. They're at least on the rocks.

Stephen will get a lot of angry emails. Or you can assume they got over it.

Just what resentments have come up.

Okay.

No, I say it didn't work.

Okay, David's done.

If you guys need to put it on me, it did not work. David's saying definitively, then these couples didn't work.

Okay, so Simba and Nala?

Simba and Nala, the lion king. She's pissed because he abandoned her and left her to basically like defend a tribe against Scar, who's the biggest, the best example of a vulnerable narcissist ever has-- Disney has ever created.

So you think she's still holding that over him well into the marriage?

She's sort of like, yeah, she's sort of like, you went away, you had your fun, you lived out all of those wild years, you know, with your mates. eating bugs, doing swinging from trees, like. And now you're just gonna come back and do one heroic thing, which, by the way, you didn't have to kill Scar. Well, you know, you.

You.

That's not quite the man I thought you were.

You.

You didn't have to, like, actually off in.

No, well, you kicked him into the. The hyena has killed him.

And she doesn't want to be in a polyamorous relationship also.

I don't know about this whole lion.

Yeah, because you know, like lionesses, there's one male lion and all the women and they do all the work. So she's just like, what the fuck is this?

I don't know if Disney lion's behavior. All right, well, may I say you've both been more cynical than Matthew AI in assuming they never got off the ground. Matthew AI, this is your game. We're just playing along. No, Matthew AI says the microbehavior was Simba had a habit of zoning out in conversations, especially when Nala was discussing serious matters. It was like the pride lands. And then the resenter was Nala began to feel like Simba wasn't fully present or invested in their shared responsibilities, which made her question his commitment.

I mean, that's kind of what we said. We just said it differently.

It might be that now he's like sort of king of the pride and he rules over the pride lands that maybe he's just sort of starts to feel a bit entitled.

Okay, well Ariel and Eric Oh, easy.

These two obviously did get together. They got married in the end, didn't they?

Sure, classic.

Yeah, I've got so much to say about this. Do you want to go first?

Go on.

Well, I mean, he didn't have changed much, Eric, did he?

Did he need to change?

Well, I mean, like, she sort of left her fishy world. She did. He, it's a bit like, you know, she was living in you know, France, and he was living in Australia, and she just went to Australia and she.

Fell in his lap. She fell in his lap and he just snapped her up.

I feel like their whole relationship was very shallow to begin with.

Yeah.

Because Eric is, like, kind of boring, but obviously, like, definitely the hottest of all the Disney princes. Princess princes. And he never even heard her speak, so he's obviously just drawn to her.

Looks now that she can speak. He's like, oh, no.

I've made a huge mistake.

No, because Ariel's so cool.

Do we know that?

Yeah, we do know that.

How much does she speak?

We saw her.

She speaks. Yeah, we see her sing and speak.

Oh, that's true.

And she's really adventurous and she's a free spirit and she's kind and she's friends with all the.

In my head, I wrote the Little Mermaid to where she didn't speak the whole. film. And then when she started speaking to Eric, she just spoke about, like, films he didn't care about and things that he just wasn't into at all. But you're right. Maybe he didn't have to speak that much, did he?

He's not a very. He's a very one-dimensional character.

She couldn't speak to him, so she never really had a conversation with him. So he turns out to be an idiot.

Right.

With nothing to say when he's not performing heroic acts. Like now that Ursula is gone, and... Is it Ursula?

Ursula.

Ursula.

Ursula.

Now that Ursula is gone...

Sorry, does this count as me correcting you in public?

Yeah. You're supposed to be applauding violently. Now that she's gone and there's sort of nothing... Like he's sort of a wartime you know, partner. He's, like, really shines when there's, like, sea voyages and things. Sea monsters to take on. But now that they're just at home on the land, she realizes he has absolutely nothing to say. Right.

I've seen, like, two films in his entire life.

Yeah.

Has never read a book.

Yeah.

He's just got nothing. She's like, I can't believe I gave up my, my. My tail for this.

Mine too.

Well, Matthew AI says, Eric would often forget to include Ariel in decisions about their life on land, assuming she wouldn't understand or care. Ariel?

I thought it was gonna say because she's already like, you know, she's already given up everything, so he's like, you just continue in that vein.

Well, Ariel felt excluded and undervalued, especially after sacrificing so much of her world to be with him.

That's a good one. and she struggled to make friends on land.

Right.

She's like, why would she struggle to make friends?

Because she's only lived a fish life. She doesn't even know what they're doing.

Yeah, it's like she's got this glorified sort of idea of what people are like, but now that she's on land, she's sort of finding that actually everyone's a bit cliquey.

Yeah.

And they're not that, like, open, and they're not inviting her into friendship groups. So now she's, like, got too much time on her hands.

She's like, Eric, could you tell them to make more of an effort to like, you know, bring me in?

Yeah, or she's like, now that he's going out with his mates and she's like, where are you going tonight? And he's like, oh, I'm going out with my friends. And she's like, well, what am I gonna do? And then she struggles to get a job. So now she sat at home all day, bored, restless, and she feels responsible for her. So now he's feeling like, oh my God, this is so much. I feel guilty all the time. She's at home.

I don't know what to do. I do actually feel like this is probably what happened.

In a desperate act to like acclimate her he gets her like a pet goldfish and it just seems like.

And.

All it does is remind her of everything she's lost.

Yeah, yeah, but that's a classic resentment someone feels like they're sacrificing more than the other person.

Yeah, I think we've done a good job on that one so there you go ruin the little mermaid Stephen and David. Well done.

Okay.

Yeah, well done.

Well, let's do another one. Yeah, buzz and Jesse toy story this is actually quite a good one.

Oh, let's think. So Buzz is a bit of a sort of lovable, heroic. He's another idiot, really, in many ways.

I mean, he's pompous.

Yeah, she's a bit. She's, like, sassy and he likes that, but over time, he sort of, like, enjoys this. you know, he wants to be like traditional masculine role, and she's always been incredibly free spirited and sort of does what she wants in the beginning. That was hot. But now he's a bit like, I just can you just be a bit more like traditional wife?

Right.

Can you just trad wife? He wants her to stay at home and like, you know, raise the kids. She he wants them. He wants them to be spacemen. She wants them on horses. And he's like, what are you doing with the horses again? Can you just, like, take them to an engineering class? He's like, It's not 1875.

Can you stop? They're not gonna be horse ranchers.

He's like, from the future, and she's still living out... She's like, living this Montana life. And he's like, this isn't gonna... This isn't gonna work. I fly spaceships.

Okay.

So he's, like, annoyed at the way the kids are being raised. And he also wants her to sort of just sort of like stay at home and be a mom and she's like this free-spirited cowgirl and she can't, she's like, this isn't what I signed up for.

Okay, I just wanted like a simple resentment, but I mean... Okay, well, according to Matthew AI, Jesse often teased Buzz about his overly serious demeanor, thinking it was playful and Buzz felt mocked rather than appreciated. So one thing we talked about here, showing in public, Appreciation is what I'm talking about.

That's what I'm talking about. He liked her sass in the beginning and it starts to get old.

The resentment was Buzz began to feel like Jesse didn't respect his values or take him seriously.

Didn't respect his values. That's what comes up in the kid raising.

Leading to a growing emotional distance between them. You got to show respect and take someone seriously.

Right.

One more.

Yeah, why not? Can I just say, on record.

This has been brilliant.

This has been the most depressing Steve sleeves we've ever done.

I gotta mix up the formula.

I agree. But, like, I think people are gonna feel like we're destroying. We're talking sacred things.

These are really beloved relationships.

These are really helpful because we're talking about resentments that come up. You're not so much. Well, you're talking a lot of speculation, but we're talking about resentments that come up in relationships.

All right, let's go to the next one. Is this the last one?

Yes.

Okay.

Shrek and Fiona. Again, let's preface this. We know they are still together as another Shrek movie is coming out and they have a family. So we know- you- said that they.

All had to be broken up.

In this reality, yes. So why didn't it work out?

I don't have anything.

Audrey's so angry right now.

Yeah.

Maybe then you give us just the stalwart defense. of their relationship, how it just doesn't make sense that they could be split up.

Maybe he sort of feels that she.

Became... That's right there.

Maybe he like sort of in like in the beginning he was like happy because it was like amazing solidarity that she became an ogre, right? That was like the ultimate act of love. But maybe a certain point he's like, maybe at a certain point he's like you like you become more swampy than me. Like she it starts to like like like she takes the swampiness too far more than Shrek. more than Shrek, where it's like you are leaning too hard into this life. Like, I was with you when you became an ogre like me, and it felt like great, but I-- He's like.

You were a princess, though.

You still were a prince. Can you be like an ogre princess? You've just become, like, even more aggressively swampy than I have. And it's like, I go to you for a little bit of polarity. And...

I feel like it would be that, in that case, he would be threatened. 'Cause, like, that's Shrek's thing. He is the swampiest. So I feel like he would feel...

Maybe it's like, you know how guys, it's like, you know, one of the lovely things about women is they smell nice.

True.

And maybe he's like, he wanted the swampy princess, but not like a swampy ogre. Like a not like a ogre ogre. Do you know what I mean? Princess ogre.

Yes.

Not ogre. You know like princess ogre.

Shame on all of you.

Not all of you.

What did he say?

If I wanted this, I could have just moved in with my ogre brother.

Right.

Stephen.

So there's not enough contrast. Rude. There's not enough contrast.

Yeah.

She took it too far.

Okay. well, that's good. You're saying there's, like, not enough, you know, not enough separation. Too comfortable. I get that. Matthew AI said the resentment essentially is, is different visions of values of life. So Fiona resented Shrek for his reluctance to embrace the responsibilities of their Royal life. Remember, they do end up. Her parents are royalty. Got it. Shrek, on the other hand, felt like Fiona was trying to change him into something he a polished, proper ruler, when all he wanted was the simplicity of his swamp. Their inability to reconcile their differing visions for the future led to constant arguments with both feeling misunderstood and unappreciated.

Can I just say I think Matthew.

AI's answer is better? Yeah, I think you're all just shame on all of you, including Matthew AI, and especially looking at you, David, who's.

Clearly enjoyed this far too much. It's hard though, if someone has all the lavish expectations of we're gonna live a royal life. And someone's like, I'm a simple guy. I don't. I actually like living quite simply. And that's different values from the start. Can't start that way.

Matt AI's answer has layers like. Like an onion.

It is. It is mostly the plot of Shrek, too.

You're really confusing me with this game. I thought they didn't work it out. I'm very just.

You don't like any. of this.

I don't like any of this. I want to be done with this now.

You don't like breakups and divorces and.

Well, that's the end of Steve's sleeves, everyone.

So we'll retire Steve's sleeves now because that's. That's depressing.

You can't. You can't. We can't take one bad review.

You got to win Audrey back again with the next Steve sleeves.

All right.

Okay.

I need a bit of time to recover from this one, but.

Well, if you all want to restore your hope in love and the ability to find enduring love, go over to loveliferplay.com because you can watch the replay of the massive live online event I did on the 20th of May. We had thousands of people show up to learn and to get a plan for how to find enduring love in a time where dating feels horrible. If you are tired of dating or the way things are out there or situationships or people never investing and you want to actually find something real amidst all of the noise and the chaos, go over to lovelifereplay.com and watch this before it goes away on the 30th of May because once it's gone, it's retired and then it won't be available anymore. So go watch it. Love Life Replay. We want to read more of your emails. So email us podcast@matthewhussy.com We love hearing from you. Email us voice notes for anyone who wants a question answered live on the air. We are prioritizing our live loves, our Love Life members. So if you are one of those, email in and we will get you to the front of the line to have your question answered live on the show. Please keep the recordings to 30 to 60 seconds, not too long. And of course, we want to hear from anyone who just has a fun experience of listening to the podcast. Who do you listen to the podcast with? Where are you listening to it? What's a fun story of something that you've learned or used from the podcast? Email us podcast@matthewhussie.com We love hearing from you. And don't forget to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts if you get a chance. Those reviews really matter to us and they help spread the word about the show. Do email us also if you do that and let us know that you did so that we can thank you. And follow us on Instagram. And follow us on Instagram. Love Life Pod. Love Life Pod. We will see you next time. Thank you everyone. Thank you Audrey.

Thank you Stephen.

Thank you. Thank you. Bye, guys.