Get Too Obsessed When You Like Someone? Do THIS | Ft. Yung Pueblo

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[Speaking] Today on the Love Life Podcast, I bring you Yong Pueblo, the number one New York Times bestselling author of Lighter and the Inward Trilogy, and a world-renowned voice on self-healing, creating healthy relationships, and developing mindfulness. This man has sold over 1.5 million books and has millions of followers online, and his new book, How to Love Better, delivers his vision for a path to deeper connection through growth, kindness, and compassion. I know that you are going to get so much out of this conversation. I joked with Diego, young Pueblo, that I asked him nothing but hard questions in this conversation. And he really rose to it in a beautiful way, bringing his depth of experience, his mindfulness practice to dating, relationships, and all the kinds of challenges that our love lives bring up. So I know you're really going to love this. And for everyone who does love this, there's something I know you will have in common, and that is that you are someone who values emotional peace. You are someone who is looking to develop a better relationship with yourself. You are someone who wants to be less anxious out there in the world. You're someone who wants to approach things in a much more intentional way where you don't sabotage yourself with old patterns, behaviours that have maybe been with you your whole life and consistently get in the way of you, A, being happy and peaceful, and B, getting the life you want or the person you want. And if that is you, then I want you to join me in October of this year on the Matthew Hussey Weekend Retreat on the 18th and 19th of October. It's happening in Miami, but if you can't make it in person, we have virtual tickets as well. And this is a really amazing time to get a ticket because we still have our Early Bird special available. This is the most discounted the tickets will be for the entire year. So do not wait. Go to mhrtrait.com and get your ticket. I hope you join us in person 'cause it's gonna be so great to see so many of you in Miami at this beautiful convention center that we're doing it at. But if you can make it virtually, that's great too. I know we're gonna have people people are traveling from all over the world to get there, but people are also going to be tuning in from all over the world to do this virtually. If your self-growth, your healing, and your goals in life are more important to you now than ever, this is a very, very important weekend for you to carve out for yourself. All right, mHretreat.com is the link. Grab your ticket. And now I present to you, young poe.

So now I want to almost, like, go to the group of people who find themselves with a lot of dating experiences behind them. maybe some relationships that didn't work out, maybe some really big heartbreaks, maybe some betrayals. Maybe many years of feeling chronically single in a way that they don't want, in a way that was never intentional. It just hasn't worked out for them. That thing you said about when you're being intentional, still having a place of non-attachment to the situation. It gets harder and harder for people as they go through life because, well, let me, let me be clear. It gets harder and harder for people as they go through life if they maintain a deep desire to find love. Because for some people, they end up kind of seeking to numb or kill that desire in themselves because Desiring is too Painful.

Right, it's too heavy.

He's too painful. Just desiring it that badly and it not working out is just untenable for so many people. And so they start to detach from that desire altogether. So now their non-attachment is not coming.

From a place of.

I suppose, a kind of strength in being able to hold a desire and simultaneously not be not too attached to that desire is coming from a place of, I'm just going to make myself not care anymore. But for those people that I coach that continue to care, it in some senses seems like it gets harder and harder because every failed relationship, every failed dating interaction, every betrayal, every situation where I got my hopes up again and it amounted to nothing, it fizzled, it faded, they ghosted, whatever is the situation, just builds this sense of fear next time around and this sense of, like, wincing, squinting, waiting for. Waiting for the other shoe to drop, even when they meet someone they like. So they. Now they go on a date.

Yeah.

And it's like they're. They're. Their receptors are on a hair trigger response.

Right.

Because it's like, oh, my God, I like this person. Oh, my God, you know, what do I do? This is like.

The fear of loss explodes already before anything even starts.

Yeah.

And.

And.

And so. How can someone who has gotten to that point in their life, and I'm imagining someone in several different age groups in their 30s who, you know, really wants to have a family and is worried that their window is closing, especially if they're a woman, people in their 40s who are maybe feeling like, oh my God, time is running out for me, or people in their 50s and 60s who are going, I want companionship or in their 70s and It's never worked out for me. And so the idea of there being any hope feels like it's just fading. How can someone in the context of that practice the kind of non-attachment you're talking about while not completely giving up or numbing themselves to their desire for love?

Yeah, there was an interesting moment where I think I was having a conversation with a friend who's been looking for a partner for a long time. And there was a while where he was looking rather aggressively is the wrong word, but just very actively looking for a partner. And we had this funny scenario came up in our minds where we were talking about, you know, if you're like hunting in a jungle and you were very loud, you're gonna just make so much noise that you scare all the prey away. And this is not like the best example, but it's like something about how you want to move through with your own developed happiness and quietly move through and allow for organic serendipity to take its course. Like you can't control everything. You can't make someone love you. You can't like make a relationship appear out of thin air. But what do you have control over? I think coming back to yourself, coming back to like, what is your relationship with aloneness? Is it one of tension? Is it one of, you know, fear? Is it one of just like heavy emotions or are you finding deeper and deeper ways to befriend yourself? And I think it's so, I'm grateful that my wife and I have these opportunities where We do spend a lot of time apart where we'll go away to, you know, 30 day meditation courses or 45 day meditation courses and either one of us will go alone or we'll go together. But even when we go together, we're not in the same room. We're totally apart. I don't see her for the entirety of the course, totally silent, and you just spend all that time alone. And I think having that opportunity to just be with myself and develop a good relationship with myself I think that's been one of the keys to being able to continuously hold that relationship together. But I think, you know, I have a lot of compassion for people who have, you know, gone through the ups and downs, seen a lot of breakups, haven't been able to get the thing that they desire. But I think it's just really important to not postpone your happiness so you don't know what the future holds.

Yeah.

I mean, I. I 100 agree with that sentiment. the, the thing I will hear from people a lot is, okay, you know, had I heard five years ago, learn to be happy on your own, it would have felt like timely advice for me because maybe I was only two years out of a relationship. I'd spent those two years rebounding, you know, making unhealthy choices, numbing, whatever. And it was all to try and escape that. fear of being alone. Yeah, that was five years ago. I'm now five years into being single or 10 or 15. And it, you know, they almost feel a sense of, of burnout at the instruction to be okay with being alone. In a sense, some of those people feel like, I mean, I am a pro at that now. By this point, I'm a pro. I've been a pro for a decade at being on my own, but I am. still lonely or I'm still yearning for that partner that I can come back in, in a sense. I think one of the great ironies is a book like yours, which is a beautiful book that people should go and check out. It's, and by the way, the book is called How to Love Better and it is out on March 11th for everyone who is wondering. Go pre-order your copy now so that it arrives with you when it comes out. Um, the irony of a book like this is that it just makes you want it even more. That thing that you want already so badly, you read about this gorgeous version of it that you're presenting, and it just makes you want the, the thing even more. The, the absence of which is the major source of your unhappiness in your life. And I take that point about learning to be happy on our own. And I almost feel bad for needling on this point because there's no easy answers here. And these are the kind of difficult questions I get all the time. But you're clearly a very intelligent person, a very thoughtful person. I'm curious if you or your wife Sarah found yourself in that situation. what do you think would happen to you? What, how do you think you would approach, you know, being out there as someone who really does want to find someone, but is just like over the single part, even though you've found comfort in being single and you've kind of made peace with, you know, being good at being on your own on a Sunday evening and not having what you're seeing your friends find increasingly with every year that goes by, what, how would you approach that?

I think that it really, you know, the situation that you're pointing to is one that many people are going through. And I've found a lot of people who, you know, friends in my circles of meditation who are open to relationship but are not necessarily actively looking and have totally focused on cultivating qualities that make their minds less turbulent. Because even what you're pointing to me, right? Like you're pointing out a situation where someone deeply desires something that they do not have. And I think understanding the transitoriness of emotions, understanding how emotions are deeply impermanent and how, you know, even when you, the way that you were forming the question, like, you know, saying I am lonely, I am X, Y, I'm heavy, like I'm sad, I'm this, I'm that. Like one thing that I've been learning is how I'm not any of those things. Like those emotions are just moving through me. And if I grab onto them, those emotions get worse and they get heavier and they get more painful. So I think training the mind and making it, you know, when I go to meditate, I'm just taking myself to the mental gym. literally developing qualities, developing awareness, developing non-reaction, developing compassion for myself and for others. And those qualities can really make life much more vibrant, much more beautiful, whether you're in relationship or not. Even if you're in relationship, the mind can still find, like, something still may happen. Like, you know, I find so many examples. You're in relationship, there's comfort there. But it's not going to be perfect. What if one of your children gets super sick? You know, a dear family member passes away. You're still going to look across life and find something to be dissatisfied about. Something is going to be missing. The picture is never going to be perfect. I had this really serious conversation with my dad once where, you know, he was struggling with a particular loss the family had. And he was trying to tell me that, like, you know, if this gets fixed, everything will be better. And I was like, Dad, I was like, that's not true. I was like, as time moves forward, someone else will be sick, someone else will die, someone else will struggle. There is going to be pain. That's what life is. And trying to develop our ability to embrace the impermanent nature of emotions and situations is incredibly helpful. It actually is the key to wisdom and happiness. And I think that's something that, you know, whether you're in relationship or not, attachment can definitely make life a lot harder. And we have to be aware, like, am I intentionally making my mind heavier by hanging on to something that I don't really have control over? We have to ask ourselves those questions quite seriously.

Before we go on with the conversation with young Pueblo, I wanted to ask you, have you used Matthew AI yet? Not enough of you have, and yet so many of the emails I get nowadays are from people who have used it and tell me it has transformed their dating life or their relationship. People are using it many times a day and you get to ask it three free questions if you haven't already. So go check it out at askmh.com and ask your free question right now. You can ask, How long should the no contact period be? And what do I do if someone texts me during the no contact period? should I text them back? You can ask, how do I have the what are we conversation in a way that gives me the best possible chance of continuing the relationship and making it something real and lasting? Or you can ask, what should I text back? Here's the text they sent me. Can you give me an example message? These are all brilliant ways to use Matthew AI. If you haven't tried it, go check it out.

It will blow your mind.

The link is askmh.com. mh.com and you can call it or you can text it, depending on your preference. If you call, you'll literally hear my voice speaking back to you.

So try that. It's wild. I'm always trying to remind people that just because you find love this year, it doesn't mean you'll have it in five years.

Yeah.

Anything can happen.

Anything can happen.

You know?

Yeah.

You'Re one diagnosis away from that being the source, the focus of your life and this new pain being the thing that's centralizing for you as opposed to thinking that just because I find a relationship now, the joy and happiness I feel in this relationship is going to be the great centralizing force of my life.

Some of the worst pain that I've seen from people is people who've gotten together, been married, had this happiness, then they had a child, and then the child passes away. That is like. It is devastating. So it's like, you know, thinking that the relationship is gonna solve all of your problems or that it's just gonna make everything better. And there's a lot of beauty in that camaraderie.

Right?

Like, I think of my wife. she's not only my roommate, my best friend, you know, the. The woman that I'm most attracted to in the world, but she's also my comrade in wisdom. And I think understanding that, my gosh, like, life has so many severe ups and downs, and so much of it is uncontrollable. So what can I really do? Well, I can cultivate my mind and point it towards greater peace at best, because life is. It's going to continue being dissatisfying.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The one thing that a relationship does give us, assuming we have a healthy partner or a partner that's a good teammate, is someone to help us.

Yeah.

In training our mind to someone who is there to correct.

Yeah.

Some of those emotional States or to help. to be a good partner in that. And all the work you just said when you're doing it by yourself.

Can.

Feel more challenging than when you have a really supportive partner who's there doing it with you. Do you have any advice for people who feel like, you know, God, it feels great to be doing this in the company of somebody else who has my back? Would you steer people towards friendships, mentors, communities? Where do you think people can find that and should start to find more of that support when they don't have it in the form of a loving partner?

Yeah, Friends on the Path are really, really important. It's so funny. I had the second 10-day course that I did in September of 2012. I did my first one in July of 2012. I ended up meeting my best friend Anwar there and we didn't talk at the beginning of the course.

We.

Both finished the course and then as soon as it was time on the 10th day you start speaking again. As soon as it was time to start speaking we just made a beeline towards each other and we spent like three hours talking in the woods and then two weeks later I was visiting him in his apartment in New York and then A few weeks after that, Sarah and I finally made the decision to move to New York City. And his friendship has been one of the most inspiring and useful, honestly, things to my growth. Because it's outside of having the mirror of my relationship with Sarah, that mirror with him and with other friends of mine who are walking that same path, it's incredibly valuable. It's just so, so powerful. And I think even having like, you know, I just was talking to a new friend and he was telling me about his men's group and it was, he had this like beautiful picture of eight guys and it was like in his meditation room. And these are the guys that he not only finds joy with, but also, you know, they help each other grow. And I think having that community is really, really, really critical. Because when you embrace your own growth, you embrace your evolution, you are basically saying yes to the light and the dark. You are taking a deep look within yourself. You're not gonna, you're not gonna like everything you look at, you see. And having someone hold space for you as you let go, as you heal, as you grow, as you develop new qualities, it's profoundly helpful. you can't do it all alone.

So I was. I know that a huge kind of preset of your book is this idea that it shouldn't always be easy and that there will be bumps in the road and there will be ups and downs in a relationship and that it won't be perfect. And I. I'm always trying to put my mind. I'm always trying to put myself in the place of the Listener.

Yeah.

In real time. And when you were describing your wife, Sarah, just now, it.

It.

That was, you know, I can't remember everything you said, but it was like, you know, she's your confident, your best friend. She's the person you're most attracted to in the world. And I could almost hear people listening to that going that it kind of sounds like you got everything. like, I. That sounds like, okay, fine. You guys maybe have some arguments sometimes, but that sounds like you've got it all. And there are lots of people in relationships who find themselves either never getting into a relationship in the first place because they're going, I'm just not quite as attracted to this person as I was my previous partner. Yeah, they're not exactly my type, even though they are kind and they are compassionate and they do value growth. For those of you wondering, and you can read all about this in the book, but there are three words that that you talk about being important, kindness, compassion and growth. Okay, tick, tick, tick. Amazing in all of those areas.

Yeah.

Not quite my type or not quite as attracted to that person as I have been to others in the past. Some people find that, you know, in a marriage, you know, oh, I'm not as attracted as I would like to be. And so for those people who almost felt like Mm-. You had given them permission to have a relationship that wasn't everything they ever dreamt about, but, you know, was, was in, you know, good enough to be like, oh, there's something really special here that I should connect with and hang on to. But then maybe heard that description of your relationship and got deflated because they were like, oh, but I want that. And I don't feel like I've got that. And maybe therefore I'm not in the right relationship. Could you speak to that? I'm giving you all easy questions today.

No, you're bringing up a great point. And I think it's always and, right? And I have all these things with my partner. I'm profoundly grateful for them. And there are a lot of difficulties. There are always difficulties. And honestly, what I've found over the years is that our relationship has become one where we are partners in problem solving. Like, there are so many difficult moments that happen in our families.

And.

Because of the strength of our togetherness and how committed we are to each other, even though our relationship may be quite imperfect, there are, like, the feelings I have for her are very strong, and I feel so profoundly connected to her. But at the same time, like, I, you know, it's. It's never, like, Blissful, right? There's always going to be ups and downs, like I've been mentioning. But I find that the sturdiness that meditation has given us has made it so that we are just really helping with. big family problems. And I think I don't want to paint a picture of like, oh, everything's like super rosy and perfect all the time because you don't want to disconnect situations. Like, yes, you have a good relationship, but then there are other things that are happening around you. And I'm really grateful for the camaraderie that I have in my relationship with my wife because there are big problems that we have to solve and it's one year after another, you know, like, Family member gets sick, family member go, you know, like big things happen and they're rather heartbreaking. But I'm grateful that we have each other to solve them. So it's never, it's never like a, you know, there's just no perfection anywhere.

What do you say? Because we do live in a culture that really prizes chemistry. prize is physical attraction, you know, prizes the butterflies. And sometimes people feel like they maybe have the makings of a good teammate, but they don't have enough of that.

Yeah.

And, and how they Define enough is a, is a subjective thing. But I'm curious as to what your thoughts are on how much people should be willing to be flexible in that department when they find a partner who meets that criteria that you said of being kind, compassionate and growth oriented.

I think a lot of it is like, you know, you want, you can check off all the boxes, but the biggest, biggest thing that trumps all the others is honestly intuition. It's like, does this, does this person feel right to me? You know, because you can kind of look, especially in terms of, like, attraction. Like, there's so many beautiful people in the world. There's just, like, tons. attractive people, but does this person not only have enough of the emotional skill set or enough of the willingness to grow that I can really build with them, and then you see those qualities, but then do they really feel right? Like, is there that magnetism that we hope to build a home on top of? And I think that's just really fundamental and unavoidable because I think one of the most fun things that I've been noticing now about our relationship was that you know, my wife and I, we got together very young and we had these like young, perfect little faces and now I'm noticing that like my whole perception of reality is really seen through her standing and then the world around her. Like that's why I see her face far more than I see my own. And now when we look at each other, like we have little lines, like we're getting older, you know, we're starting to have little wrinkles and It gives me the joy of knowing, like, whoa, like, one, I'm grateful that our relationship is far beyond looks, and two, I'm kind of excited to become little old people together. You know, that sounds like great.

Yeah.

Well, I can't speak for her, but I feel like she's won the lottery in that department because you still have a young, perfect face. There's barely a wrinkle.

I'm getting old. Yeah.

Um, When you describe that intuition.

Yeah.

About is there enough of whatever that thing is, that magnetism, for us to, you know, for this thing to have this enduring life for us to build a home on, can you, harder as it may be, can you try to help people understand what that might feel like and how to tap into that? Because I I know myself. It wasn't just that for a long time, I I didn't. I found a hard trusting other people. I really found it hard to trust myself. Yeah, I I I didn't know what feelings I could trust and what feelings I couldn't. And a lot of people out there feel like, God, I've trusted my feelings before, and they've got me into a lot of trouble. And, you know, maybe I'm. There's someone who's right for me that I don't feel enough for, and I'm ignoring something that could be really great. So how can people tap to that like what intuition is a word we hear a lot, but if you were trying to make that practical for people, what would you say for what it feels like, what it looks like, how to know that you can trust a feeling? What is it? What is it?

So for me personally, intuition feels like a consistent calm flow in a particular direction. so it's not like voices of the mind. It's not like the reactiveness of the mind where, you know, it's not like, oh, I want to have some ice cream tonight. That's not intuition. And it's not like, oh, should I go, you know, do this tomorrow? Or, you know, it's not it's not the it's not the micro things. It's usually relevant to the more macro important sort of chapter changing moments. And intuition will point you in a direction even when you're not ready to listen to it. And I've felt this in relationship and not. Like when I felt the intuition to move to New York City, there was fear. There was like encountering like, you know, is this right? Is this like, am I just fooling myself? But that calm flow kept coming directly through the body. I kept feeling it through the stomach and it would keep pointing me in that direction. and what I started understanding about intuition was that it's something that's asking you to totally step outside your comfort zone, but with the balance that it's not asking you to hurt yourself, but it's asking you to take on a challenge that will help you grow. And similarly in the relationship when, you know, before Sarah and I, before I asked Sarah to marry me, there was this sort of big inner battle where it was like, for me, like, is this the right relationship? Like, is this the right person to double down on? And as my mind was going through all the scenarios, you know, and this took like, I think maybe like a year or so for me to really hunker down and decide that this is the right relationship for me. The continuity of just being pointed back in that particular direction was quite clear, but sometimes it felt like the mind was so loud that I could barely quiet it down and listen to that and feel that clarity.

And how did you get to that clarity? How did you connect with that clarity and know to trust it?

After, you know, after I did that first 10-day course, like Sarah and I were on a break for a while. And that first six years that we were together was pretty off and on. And we were on a break still friends and I was living in another part of the country. But when I went to that course, I felt how much I was ignoring myself, how much I was trying to like, you know, just honestly just trying to swim and swim in my cravings, like see more people, see new people and, you know, as opposed to realizing that I actually had something really beautiful with this person and what I need to do is actually not worry about that surface level attraction with others and just focus on building something beautiful with this individual who, you know, I'm so grateful for. And it took some quieting down of the mind through meditating for me to really be able to hear, like, turn up the volume on intuition.

What is your message? God, I want to say to men, but I want to broaden it for everybody because women can fall into this camp too. what is your message to people who get that sense of opportunity elsewhere, surface level attraction with other people? Maybe it comes with this sense of dread that, am I going to be able to run the marathon that is marriage?

Yeah.

Because this is a long time. And if I'm already having those surface level you know, Cravings elsewhere was to say, I'm gonna be able to resist that 20 years from now, you know, with even more time. And that those kinds of thoughts can stop a lot of people from ever making that commitment.

Right. Really building.

What's your message to people who feel like that is keeping those. Those Cravings and fears are keeping them on the ledge? in a situation where maybe their intuition is giving them a feeling of calm in a certain direction with the person that they're with.

Yeah, there's two things that immediately stand out. And one is that you have to be really careful with unconsciously chasing excitement because that's what you get in the very beginning of a relationship, is a lot of that exciting feeling. And the other element of it is that you need to be really careful with looking for marginal improvements, right? Like a relationship that's like 2% better. Like that's not, that isn't really gonna come from getting a new person. Often that comes from, you know, deciding to be more honest with each other to figure out like in what ways are you slowing down the harmony, taking more accountability, like, you know, as opposed to living from attachments, try to move and live in a place of commitments and clarifying these things, learning more sort of tools and frameworks that can expand your emotional skill set and show up for each other, giving each other more freedom. These things can just improve a relationship dramatically as opposed to thinking, oh, this is, you know, I need to find someone new. And I think the reality is that, you know, sometimes it's like the most powerful relationships will only last for five years. I mean, I had literally just the other day, I had an amazing comment from someone. I wrote something on Substack about relationships and about knowing when to end a relationship.

And.

This woman was telling me about how her husband and her were sort of dragging out the relationship for quite a while, and then they realized that they needed to get divorced. And she was saying how they have such an incredible friendship now, and they're both so much happier. but simultaneously, they're happy that they had a family together. They're happy that, you know, they, they spent this time together. So I think, you know, when we talk about relationships, it's really to each their own. Like, everything is so situational, so unique.

What do you, what do you say in that situation? Because it seems when you have someone who is, you know, they're sort of that wonderful that you can even have this incredible friendship with them afterwards and. happy you raised kids together and you still look forward to a future together in a different capacity. What's the reason those two people shouldn't then just stay together? You know, that they let. Do you. I, I mean, there are, there are several reasons, of course, but I'm curious if for people who are in that situation going, what do I do? Do I do, is this time? redouble my effort on the relationship? Or is this time for an honest conversation?

It's time for an honest conversation, you know, because it takes two people to make a relationship happen. So if one person feels like they already have one foot out, then I think you need to talk because you don't even know if the other person also feels that same way. And then in the part of having that deep conversation and feeling like there is a possibility of breaking up, do you want to or do you want to stay together? but you won't really know until you check in, have these conversations, because life gets so busy, especially as you get older, you put kids in the mix, family problems, and then you kind of just only become problem solvers together. But really having those moments to really check in and see, are we good? Are you still having fun? Is this companionship still fruitful to the both of us? I think those conversations are important and they should happen. more often than not.

Do you think that if you're asking for something that your partner or that you think your partner can't give you or can't change, it's still fair to them to have the conversation so that they at least have a shot at making that adjustment or making that change? Or do you think that it's, in a sense, there just winds up being something cruel about it because you're pointing out something that's missing that you know, really their personality is the reason for that. It's not something they can shift.

I think it depends on how important it is to you. You know, if it's something very like ephemeral and now it's like, you know, it's whatever. But if it's something that like is hampering in your mind is something really important and it's a part of yourself that you feel like you're hiding, then like some, yeah, you got to speak up. You got to talk and see if there is a solution there for the both of you. But I think having to hide parts of yourself in a relationship is not, you're not going in the right direction.

Right? Yeah. Yeah.

I, I, this is such a great conversation. I have so many, I feel like this is a really great place to stop because we should do this again. I think rather than, you know, I don't know how many more three hour podcasts the world needs, but I think if people listen to this and go, you know what? what an amazing hour or so this was. And, you know, we want this again.

I'm.

Which I think people are gonna want. I think it's worth us doing this.

Yeah. And thank you for keeping it real. I really liked the hard questions because it's. It's easy to talk about, you know, just, like, knowing how to love better in the context of a relationship where both people want to try. But the reality is that there are way more difficult situations out there. where one person wants to try, another person doesn't, or one person is looking for the person that they really want to build something with and they can't find them yet. And I think that the there is such a wide range of what a relationship looks like. And of course, always you're walking in relationship with yourself. But then whomever you're encountering, whomever you're in proximity towards, you know, people who you're next to are always going to see like the best parts of you and the worst parts of you, whether they're your roommates or family members or friends or your partner. So I think, you know, having some degree of like understanding yourself to a higher and higher level is going to be helpful in all situations.

Well, you're very welcome. I'm glad it's fun to have a guest where you can have these conversations and that they actually lead to interesting thoughts and observations and, and advice as opposed to dead ends.

Yeah.

The I have one more question, and then I just want to ask you if there's anything you feel you want to communicate about your book that perhaps we've missed. I just want to make sure that, you know, people have heard why it is that, you know, they should grab a copy of this book. And just if there's anything in general you want to talk about there, the, the question I have for you maybe is a bit of a metal one, but the the kind of person who picks up your book is probably by definition someone who values growth, self-awareness compassion, kindness, someone who is either already a great teammate or has the desire to be a great teammate. And that maybe is a generalization, but I would imagine that there's a lot of that in your audience. that kind of person, especially when they're looking for love, can feel very deflated and disappointed by the amount of people they come across who seem not to be interested in that kind of self-reflection. What would you say to those people who feel like they're almost self-selecting, you know, they're, they're They are the people that they're looking for. Yeah. But they feel a genuine shortage of those kinds of people on the other side.

Yeah, that's a fabulous question to end on. I think that being miserable is going out of style. I really believe that. But from your perspective, are you only looking for people who like to heal and grow in the ways that you like, because that's one thing that you need to challenge yourself to expand your view of what healing and growth look like. Sometimes for some people, healing and growth is joining a run club or going hiking more often or being more into art. There are so many different ways to build self-awareness and to self-reflect and to just start understanding, there are some things I could do a little bit better and I think when you make that view, like, you know, if I'm only going to date a meditator or I'm only going to date someone who does therapy or like, or this specific type of therapy that's better than all the others, then yeah, of course you're going to get a very narrow group of people. But I've seen a lot of amazing relationships flourish over time where one person likes to meditate, the other person likes therapy, one person really takes care of them through exercise, the other person, you know, does X, Y and Z. But you and I, for you and I to have harmony, we don't need to be doing the same exact things. And I think that's it's important just widen your perspective of what's out there because it's never become it's never been cooler to take care of yourself, to like pull yourself out of pain and past suffering and and develop a newer version of yourself. But that does not mean we're all going to do it the same way.

Mm.

I love, love, love that answer. I am so happy you said that, because I do think we live in a world today where there is a. A culture of people wanting to have some kind of mirror reflection.

I know.

Of their specific ways that they're learning lessons and they're developing, even to the extent that they want people to understand their language that they've learned.

This way is the only way. Yeah.

No, I I. That's a beautiful beautiful and important answer. And it's amazing how much overlap there is between our philosophies and the way we think. Is there anything you wanted to say to finish off? I mean, you finished it perfectly there, but is there anything else just regarding the book itself that you'd like to add?

Yeah, one last thing. I think one of the funnest chapters that I had the most fun writing was the Art of Arguing. I think it's chapter seven in the book and really trying to understand compassion not just from the element of, oh, I feel these empathetic feelings for you, or I'm gonna, but a very specific type of compassion where you are intentionally stepping out of your own shoes to put yourself in the shoes of another. When you are in the midst of arguing with your partner, It is that compassion that's going to create a bridge for potential understanding. Without you stepping outside of your own perspective and taking the time to really see things from their view, how did the series of events unfold, then you can reach what Thich Nhat Hanh says, Love is understanding. Because the argument fizzles and evaporates. The tension of that evaporates as soon as I can really understand you. and see where you're coming from and vice versa. There's no argument left to hold on to.

Yeah.

I want to do another hour all on that. The book is called how to love better. It is out on March the 11th. Grab a copy. It's a beautiful book, and this has been a really beautiful conversation. Thank you.

This has been so.

I really hope that we get to do it again soon.

Yeah, thank you.

While you're here, make sure you go to mHretreat.com and grab your early bird ticket, either an actual physical seat to be in Miami or a virtual ticket so that you can be with us at my live weekend retreat in October.

On the 18th and 19th.

That link again is mHretreat.com/earlybird I can't.

Wait to see you there.

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