“He’s Great On Dates But NEVER Texts”

Foreign.

Guys, before we start the episode, if you have not watched the replay yet of the Year of Love live event I did this month, please go watch it now. It's only available for a couple more days. It was a completely free event. We had thousands of people from all over the world attend this event. Thousands more are watching the replay before it goes away. I am showing you how to design a year in 2026 that you invites the right love into your life. So I don't care if you're ready to give up on dating because dating sucks. Do not give up on love. I want to show you a better way. Go to MH yearoflove.com and watch this replay before it goes away. Please don't miss this. That's MH yearoflove.com Now onto the episode. When I'm overwhelmed and overloaded, the first thing to go is my nutrition. So if that's you, I see you. The good news is Blue Apron just made things a whole lot easier. It is the ultimate hack for getting a nutritious, delicious dinner on the table in 30 minutes or less. Trying to eat better can feel like one too many things when time for meal planning and prep is limited. That's where Blue Apron comes in. Their meals are chef crafted and nutrition informed, striking the balance between bold flavor and being genuinely nourishing. With dozens of options including meals with 40 plus grams of protein, there is something for everyone. You'll also find choices on heart, healthy fats, fiber, rich vegetables and whole grains. Everything arrives pre portioned so you are getting what your body needs. Order now@blueapron.com and get 50% off your first two orders plus free shipping with code LOVELIFE50. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blueapron.com terms for more information. Rather than simply mirroring his behavior, what if I modeled the behavior I want to see? Welcome everybody to the Love Life podcast with me, Matthew Hussey. My dear brother, Stephen Hussey.

Hello everyone.

And Audrey, you always sound so surprised when you say my name.

Because you know what? I'm always surprised that you're here. Because minutes before, every time we do one of these podcasts these days, you basically re raise the question of whether you're even going to show up.

I like to keep you on your toes.

Well, literally what happens minutes before we're about to to just to go live?

I get shy and I get stage fright.

Yeah. And you say, do you even need me on this one?

Audrey perpetually wants to be a surprise guest.

Yeah, she does. She does Even to. Even to you and me, Steve.

Right.

I never quite know until we go live whether she's actually going to show up because she says, yeah, I'll be there. And then right as we're about to go, she goes, do you even need me on this one? Can I just sit behind the scenes and, you know, just sit this one out? And I'm like, what are you doing? No, we had a plan.

No. But I would like to say this morning, I actually was the one who was excited to do it. Well, I wasn't at first. I wasn't.

Yeah, exactly.

So, yeah, it was.

We still went on a bit of a roller coaster as to whether you.

Well, you know, you know.

Well, we're. We are here, all three, which I have. I've been loving Steve and the audience has two. It's been, it's been really nice. We'll.

We'll.

We'll read a bit feedback. But it's been really nice to just have the three of us here because. Well, firstly, it's lovely to have a woman's view here on the podcast and it's lovely just to get the kind of breadth of different opinions and as people have rightly pointed out in the feedback. Audrey, you are always incredibly insightful in what you say. No pressure today, but you are. And Steve and I welcome you to the Love Life Podcast, Stephen. We've got some really interesting stuff coming up today, haven't we? What's the. What's the topic of today before we lead off with a review, as we have done?

Traditionally, the topic du jour is he's great on dates but never texts. Now, this was something that was asked in our special Love Life Club, and we just thought it was such a relevant issue that people face. Like someone's great in person, rubbish in between. What do you do in that scenario?

Hang on a minute, Steve, you mentioned something there. Love Life Club. What is that?

Love Life Club, Matt, is our special VIP exclusive membership where we do personal coaching sessions with our group. We have these great Q&As. We have special guests, we have interviews. It's a whole membership where you are working out every part of your social flirtation, attraction, muscles, relationship skills, communication, all of it.

That's really interesting, Steve. Now, if I was a member of the Love Life Club, would it be possible to get my question answered potentially by either you or me?

Absolutely. And I answered many last night on my Q A session.

Now, is there some sort of a way that I could become a member of this club and just sort of try it out without having to commit initially.

You are a tough customer. But I think there is. If you go to askmh.com you can actually go and sign up for a trial of the membership.

And just so I'm clear, Steve, can I go in there, try it all out, listen to one of the sessions with you and Matt, and just sort of, you know, just sort of rip you guys off and. And be there for free for a bit and then just cancel before I ever get charged.

I mean, in so many words, that that is a possible path you could take.

Great, I'll do that.

Okay, well, I'm looking forward to seeing you there.

Can't wait. And sorry, what's that link again where I can go and do that and essentially just steal from you?

That's askmh.com lovely.

All right, I'll see you over there, Matt.

Another way you can steal from us is by taking us up on our special early bird offer of our virtual retreat, which is currently 20 off until July 6th. So if you want to literally take 25 worth of value of our virtual retreat for nothing, you can sign up for that at MH Virtual Retreat. And it's our last virtual retreat. I lost. Any retreat, any retreat of 2022, it is the last one in November.

Oh, no, there's. The stakes are high on this one. This really is. It's going to be 20, 24 until you next come to our retreat. If you sleep on this. And this last one is in November. It's three days of. Stephen, someone asked me just yesterday, what would you say is the essence of the retreat? And I said, at the risk of sounding unbelievably overly simple and cliche, it's about being happy.

Yes.

It's about understanding that a, you may need tools to help you get where you want to go in your life so that you can create a life that makes it possible to be happier or makes it, I should say, easier to be happier. But it's also about learning how to be happy where you are now. And I sort of feel like that's always the name of the game in life.

I actually think it's about accepting yourself and feeling accepted by others, which.

And you know what's really interesting about that, Audrey? I literally said that when I was explaining it yesterday.

Really?

Yeah, because they were talking, they said, well, isn't it about confidence? And I said, you're right, it is about confidence and confidence. True confidence is about self acceptance.

Yeah.

But self acceptance creates confidence and peace. And peace is a Gateway to happiness, for sure.

For sure.

So it's all of those things. If that sounds like what you need right now in your life, come join us in November. And now is the best time because as Steven said, there is an early bird ticket available, but it's only until July 6th. Go check it out@mhvirtualretreat.com all right, Stephen, before we get into the main content of this episode, can we just have a little review? I've been enjoying reading these and listening to these. Who have we got? Who reviewed us on itunes this week?

We got a review from Melody W. Who said, used your unfair advantage line at the end of a date. Hi, Matthew. I just had a first date, really enjoyed myself, and decided to try your next time. Don't wear that shirt because it gives you an unfair advantage line. And I added because you have great arms. He really did have great arms. He texted me when he got home, invited me on a second date, and said he loved that. I said that right before we hugged goodbye. Thank you for that cute and flirty one liner. Excited to see where this goes Now.

Steve, that's not just a review. That's a review that actually gave content.

That is so that's a nugget right there.

Yeah. So that line again is if you're on a date with someone and you leave the date and maybe, you know, maybe you leave the date and realize, oh, I could have been a little more flirtatious. I, I, Stephen, you know, I've been saying this for a long time. I think one of the mistakes that a lot of people make on a date is never demonstrating any attraction that someone, you can get off of a date with someone. And if you're on the receiving end of someone who hasn't actually demonstrated any attraction, you, at the end of the day, you sort of wonder whether they actually fancied you at all.

Totally.

Which is sort of important on a date. You don't, you know, you don't want to just get off of a date and go, huh. I think that they really enjoyed my conversation because that's, that's not, that doesn't suggest anything romantic to me. What makes a successful day is a combination of having felt like someone saw you and enjoyed what they saw and heard, but also felt that little bit of electricity by being with you. And someone can only feel that if you go beyond having an enjoyable conversation and actually demonstrate a hair of desire. A hair of attraction doesn't have to be a lot. It's a first date, after all. We want to Leave some mystery. But someone just showing a little bit of, I, I noticed you romantically, I find you attractive is a really powerful thing. And if you haven't done it on the date, don't worry, you can do it after the date. You can send someone a message like Melody did, where she said, you know, some version of I had a great time tonight, but you can't wear that shirt again. It gives you an unfair advantage, which is a little bit of spice thrown in right at the end. And if he was in any doubt as to whether you found him attractive, he's not after that text. You know, sometimes when you can get to a place where you send someone a message and say, I'd like to see you again, and you may be surprised to learn that when they receive that message, they go, that is shocking because I had no idea that she actually liked me.

Yeah, absolutely.

From the time we spent together, I had no idea that she actually felt that way. And if that's true, then there's been a little bit of a disconnect somewhere. Maybe we haven't been quite vulnerable enough, you know, maybe we haven't actually been animated enough or flirtatious enough. All right, well, Stephen, let's move on to the main topic for today.

Well, before we do that, Matthew, we. I do have to give a couple of responses to our topic on the ick, which I'd say is still a hot. A hot topic with our listeners. So last week, the three of us discussed, when you feel the ick, you get some either instant turn off or something just kills. Kills the attraction for someone you're with. And our listeners have some views on this, Matthew, and one or two icks to share themselves. So Rosie said, hi, Matthew, Great ick episode. I thought your conversation of getting the ick was insightful as I never correlated it with a meaning until now. So I thought I'd share an ick I got from a guy that happened a couple of weeks ago. After a great second day, I went back to a guy's house and to my surprise, his bed was in the middle of the room, not pushed up against the wall. Yes, it was a huge ick. It gave me serial killer vibes. So imagine that, Matt. Like a bed just plonked in the middle of like the most space inefficient thing you can think of. Bang. In the middle of your bedroom.

That is really. That is really weird.

She said. After listening to your episode, I was pondering, why was this a nick. I came to the conclusion that I think the Fact that he's okay with sleeping in the center of a room with no wall behind probably means he's okay with not feeling safe and comfortable. What are your thoughts on this, Rosie from Sydney?

That's absolutely hilarious. Do you know why I find that funny is I spent all my life trying to graduate from having a big enough room that I can have the bed in the middle of the room.

I mean, he sounds rich. If nothing else, what sort of square footage is going on in that room? He can have a perimeter around his bed.

Hang on, does she mean right in the middle? As in.

She means. So this is where she's saying serial killer virus.

Oh, my God.

No, she means not even pushed up against the back wall. She means literally his bed is just in the middle of the room. So the headboard is not even pushed up against the wall.

Yeah, no, that's. That's weird.

That's mad in it.

I mean, that is a poor use of space. Unless your room is massive. That is a poor room. Poor use of space to begin with.

I'm trying to think, you know, like some, like, if you look at a picture of like the presidential suite of like a hotel.

Yeah.

And it has, like the sort of bed in the middle of the room because there's just so much space behind it as well. And it's like, it just is really, really decadent. That's the only context in which I've ever seen that done. But this is in someone's bedroom. It is a bit. That is a bit mad.

Another one here from Jenna, who said, hi, Matthew, Stephen and Audrey. I love the podcast and just want to reach out and say, I 100% agree with Matthew. When sand or something similar is brought back home from another country and how it's nice to think that a part of that country is now with me in my house.

Yeah.

I also think of this when I lose hair or something similar in another country and now think, part of me will always stay in this country.

I've literally had that thought. I can't, Jenna. I've literally had that thought that, like, that's the weirdest thing ever. I've left a. Like a piece of me is just. That is. That's bonkers. I've sometimes thought it when I've dropped an item into the ocean by mistake.

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And you just think, what? Like, that's mad. A part of something I had is now in the depths of the ocean.

Part of me belongs to the sea.

It's scared. I feel almost scared for that item that I dropped, that it now belongs to the seabed.

I think of it sometimes floating a.

God, Jenna, that is like one of those weird thoughts that I didn't know anyone else had. Thank you for making me feel seen.

Matt, in an old TV show, there was an idea that if you spread your DNA, it was a time travel thing. I think it was like a Blackadder time travel thing. And he said, our DNA is spread through time on our adventures. So now future people look more like Black Adder and his companion. And I often had this thought, quite embarrassingly, when I, like, pee in another country on the beach or something, I don't pee on the beach. But, you know.

Well, you said it, you said it. Now.

If I, if I peed somewhere, I'd be like, that's my DNA. That's my DNA now, Stephen. Through time.

Now, what you aren't saying, but we all know is true, is that what you mean is when you paddle your way out to the ocean.

Come on, come on now.

And you, and you, and you pee in your little swim shorts underwater.

No, sorry. I think everybody pees in the ocean. It is literally the land of pee.

Yeah, and some people pee in the pool, don't they?

Do they?

Yeah, they do.

Matt's looking at Audrey now, not me.

For some people, I did not pee in the pool.

Pee in the pool.

I am not even getting into this conversation.

Okay, No, I will call you. We won't get into it. No, no, no, let's just, let's just leave it there.

Okay, One more, guys. This is from Vicky. And this, I mean, I'm curious what you think she says you all really missed the ick factor definition. I don't know about men, but for women it's usually a habit that is gross. He uses a toothpick at the table or has horrible table manners or refers to you as his lover or scratches his ear and then checks his finger. These happen in just started relationships and not in long term ones. In long term ones they are just things you dislike about your partner but get past. But in a just forming relationship, they are gross deal breakers.

Well, I think that Rosie has already disproved that with her Rick being the bed in the middle of the room.

Yeah. And also I think we did mention some beginning things like weird habits or weird things. But you're specific, Vicky, specifically focusing on gross things.

And the ick only relates to gross things. But I think that what Rosie is saying is that she got the ick just as bad from a guy who had space between his headboard and the wall.

I think what Vicky is saying is that her ex relate to gross things, which is a personal feeling about it. Right?

Yeah, yeah. I think from what I've heard from women we've spoken to since, the ick can go very broadly to personality traits, to things. People say all kinds of things. But yeah, but yeah, I'm sure gross things as well. Vicky.

Stephen, there was, there was just a review or I should say some feedback that came in about the episode from Aisha. She says hi guys. I really love all the insight and fun of your podcast and listen whenever I can. As for the ick, I take a different view from both Steven and Audrey. I recently broke up with my partner of 15 years. We have a six year old daughter together and I love him very much in a non romantic way. The ick just got stronger and stronger over the years and ultimately became too strong to ignore. I didn't get it because I was too immature to get over the superficial little quirks that we all have. I also didn't get it because of some profound childhood wound that he triggered in me at the end of the day. It was there all along. There were certain little things about him that annoyed me and turned me off from the start, but they weren't strong enough to break the attraction and the love and care I felt for him. The way he chews his food. Yes, really. The way he spits in the street when he has a sinus infection and gets bad phlegm and even his sex voice were all mild annoyances I had, but after 15 years together, I didn't get used to them. The annoyance didn't go away. Conversation after conversation. Really nice at first, probably very naggy towards the end. Didn't change these little things. I tried to accept them. He probably tried to change them. But in the end, if someone's little quirks get on your nerves so much that you can barely stand to be in the same room with them, they are clearly not your person. It sucks. But I think it's a warning to anyone getting into a long term relationship not to ignore the ick and just try to get over it or assume it will somehow get less bad or go away. My ex is an absolutely lovely man. Very rugged and manly and hot and cool. I was always proud to be seen in public with him. If anything, I was embarrassed that I couldn't appreciate all of his hotness and loveliness and his amazing Irish accent as much as I objectively should. But attraction can't be faked or forced or even explained. And neither can the ick. Anyway, that's just my two cents. Would love if you would let me know your thoughts, but feel free to ignore all the best you're happily separated. Dutch Fan that is an interesting email.

Yeah, it is.

Which by the way, came into podcast matthew hussey.com if you would like to send in your stories or your feedback in relation to any particular episode you're listening to. What do you think about that, Audrey?

What I take from it mostly is when she says that these, she had these annoyances from the beginning and she kind of, she chose to ignore them and focus on the positives about him. I think there's a lot to that. I think if there is a shadow of something that really just jars you from the beginning, it's something that you shouldn't ignore because it probably is just going to get bigger and bigger and bigger as attraction fades and love grows and relationships evolve. I think if there's something that is just. Yeah, that stands out to you in that way.

But you know, it's really, it's really interesting, isn't it? Because even that is, it forces us to kind of create some nuance in that answer. I last year met someone who was a guy who had clearly been very passionate about dancing his whole life. And as he put it to me, he said my, my wife and he had a wife and kids, all of whom he loved very, very much and thought the world of. He said, my wife is utterly uncoordinated. And he didn't say it didn't bother him, but he said essentially, how many days in my life do I spend dancing? He Said when I, you know, when I look at it, even though I. I really like when someone can dance. He said, I looked at my life and I said, how many days in my life do I actually spend dancing? And therefore, how important is this versus all of the incredible things that this woman brings to the relationship? And he did add, she's also gorgeous and has all of these, you know, isn't. You know, he finds her attractive. And. And it's almost. I feel like we need to qualify this because based on what this email says and in a way, based on what you've said, we could be in danger of saying that anything that we don't like in the beginning should be kind of we ignore at your peril, because it will never go away. And we all do know relationships where there are things that if we could choose that person, if we could wave a magic wand and have that person kind of. I'm sure if he could wave a magic wand at the beginning of that. Of that relationship and say she can dance, that man would have. But it didn't change the fact that it's not something that has been a huge feature of their relationship. So do we have any clarity that we can offer to help people who find themselves going, well, hang on. There is this thing early on that I'm. If I could wave a magic wand and change it, I would. How do I know if this is something that I should accept about my partner and just go, well, there's always going to be something I accept about anybody versus this is going to bite me five years from now when it doesn't go away. And it's still something that's really affecting my attraction.

I think from looking at this email, the only distinction I would make to this dancing story and the person that you spoke to, Matt, is I feel that there is maybe a more kind of disgust towards the kinds of things she's talking about, which I think would maybe not be found so easily in something like somebody who can't dance very well or has bad coordination. Now, I say that I think the ick can be quite complicated. And I think obviously we can be put off by very shallow things and not really understand why, but that is the only distinction I would make. However, I do think that attraction is just really, really complicated. And I think attraction over time is very complicated. We have different hormones pumping through our bodies and different stages of the relationship. We literally physiologically feel completely different in the first six months than we do 10 years later. We just. We just do. And so it's Very difficult to sit there and have any kind of insight as to why something would get to that point for this woman and then not necessarily for someone else. But I'm interested to know what you think, Steve.

Yeah, I think the gross out thing might be very, very instinctive, repulsive, whatever. But the dancing one, that seems to me more comes around that compatibility type thing. Like, like, do you again, you need to know, like, just because they don't do that thing or they're bad at that thing that I like. Does it actually affect anything about your day to day happiness or needs? If it's like, this is my life, I live and breathe it and it's essential that someone is in on that. Otherwise it's a problem. That might. But that's very few things. Most things, it might just be like, yeah, I'm really passionate about it, but you know, I'm really passionate about art or something, and they just have no taste or affinity for it at all. You might think, well, how often are you actually, like, engaging with serious art and making that a big part of your life? Do you get that need met through some friends? Anyway, you know, I think, I think those things you can kind of like, you can kind of say where there's live and let live things, but it could ick you out if you are like, I live for. I'm a culture vulture. I run an exhibition and it's my life and I live and breathe gallery life. Yeah. It might be a problem if, like.

You literally thought of Tim from the Office.

Culture vulture.

Did you?

Did you think of.

When did you.

Did you think of the Office when you. When he said that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

When Tim goes, Gareth. Culture vulture.

Culture vulture, if you like.

That's the British Office. For all of you Americans out there, the. The OG British Office was what we're referring to.

It's the only place I've ever heard it.

Culture vulture and even that. I've heard of some people who are like, yeah, I have a gallery and blah, blah. My husband doesn't care at all about art, so you even hear that. So I think it's more about, like, does it affect your daily needs? Like, if you're dancing all the time, you might need someone dancing with you if that's like an essential thing. But yeah.

Can I say something that's not quite a nick about you? Oh, God, Audrey. But it's gotten to a point where it's starting to become a problem.

Here we go.

Yeah, go on.

It's not the peeing in the swimming Pool, is it?

No, Steve, surprisingly, I'm actually completely okay with that.

You know, I'm really annoyed about this because what he's done.

Can you stop trying to change the subject, all right? I'm trying to have a serious conversation with you about something important right now.

This is real defamation.

I bought you for your birthday a Harry Potter Lego set.

Yeah.

It wasn't your main present. Before you start piping up, Steve. It was more of a. More of a stocking filler, as we say about Christmas presents. I don't know what the birthday equivalent is of a stocking filler. Yeah, you know, side present.

Fun, fun. Little extra.

Yeah. And you know what? She's done with it, Steve.

Go on.

Absolutely nothing.

We said we were gonna do it together.

Did we?

Yes. I said to you, I'm gonna wait until you come back so we can do it together.

Oh, okay.

Matt's holding the box now.

Not only is he lying about ick results, me being in the pool, this is how.

And guys, hey, this is great for. For everyone listening out there, you know that this is how you resolve it. You just haven't have a lovely little chat about it.

Doesn't want me to finish my sentence, does he?

It's Steve. It's a LEGO version of the Harry Potter night bus.

Uh huh. Okay.

Which is. I'm not advertising them that we're getting no money from either J.K. rowling for this nor Lego. But the night bus is a special reference in our relationship.

Yeah. Which we were going to do together.

But you've not had it. Romantic now. I didn't realize. Sorry. And I'll be honest, I would have been a bit disappointed if you did it without me.

Honestly, the man does not know what he wants.

No. No winning in that one. Well, we know what we're doing this evening.

Yeah.

Building a night bus. I think what's interesting about this is as a question is almost. Almost asking yourself, assuming the ick and. And we'll move on from the ick. But I think it was really. I've really enjoyed reading these emails. Assuming the ick isn't so visceral and repulsive to you that you just. It will not be ignorant if it falls into the realm of God. I wouldn't choose this thing. Don't know if I like this thing. Not really attracted to this thing in them. We have to ask ourselves, could I view this compassionately? And I think that's the. What do we all want in a relationship? We want acceptance. That's what we want in life. Right. We want to be accepted. And nowhere do we want to be accepted more than in our most intimate of relationships with the person that knows us best. We want to be accepted for all that we are. And it's one of the most beautiful things we can receive. It's also one of the most beautiful things we could ever give to somebody else is true acceptance. And what we haven't talked about in relation to the ick is how painful it is to be on the other side of the ick is that were we to know the people, you know, how many of us have been broken up with because we gave someone the ick at some point or another and they never told us that we just kind of got broken up with or someone just didn't call us for another date. And were we to know that we had given someone the ick, it would feel like the opposite of acceptance. It would feel like, oh, I'm. There's something so not acceptable about me that you literally couldn't be around me because of it. You could not have me in your life because of it. That feels like the complete opposite, the complete antithesis to acceptance. So I say that only with this in mind that there will be things about us that we will hope to be accepted for and sometimes a little humility. Again, I'm not talking about the things that viscerally we cannot overcome, but there are things we will hope to be accepted for in ourselves. And an awareness of those breeds a kind of humility about somebody else. When we find ourselves going, oh, I'd like to wave a magic wand and get rid of that thing. There's probably a few of those that someone is thinking about us too. And that humility can breed an outward compassion. Can I be, could I extend a compassionate lens to this thing that I might change and in doing so, or I might otherwise change if I was being really picky and in doing so just view it as part of them. I, I, I really love this person. So I see this actually as something I can just love them. I can even find a way to love them even more with this thing. Because there's something about this. What could be perceived as a weakness or could be perceived as something that makes them flawed or that makes them human, that I could actually that could just make me love them more. And if the answer to that question is absolutely not, then you have your answer.

Well, in a weird way, Matt, I would find it easier with person certain personality things in a way than the gross habits like a spitting in the street in A way it's like, it's a tell about how someone's level of respect for the things around them and like, it's like paints a picture of like, man, this person's kind of gross or has no like respect for others. You know, I mean that's kind of harder in a way. Those visceral.

They can choose not to spit in the street but they can't choose where to grow hair on their back.

Yeah, something like that. Yeah.

It's not a bad example.

Yeah, we're like, you can choose not to pee in the pool and then blame it on me.

I don't, I think our listeners don't need to know who peed in the pool. Just someone did. Someone did.

Should we name, we should name this episode Someone Peed in the Pool.

Well Steve, I think everyone knows who that was.

Here we are halfway, if not more through the episode and I don't think we've even asked our main question. And Harry is in the background doing pull ups on the stairs. Like Steve, this is what I'm dealing with. He's supposed to be manning the cameras and he's doing pull ups on the stairs. Can I just say, in eight years, Jameson has never been doing pull ups in the middle of filming.

We love to see the multitasking. We love to see it go on.

Then, Steve, what's the main topic?

I'm just making a sandwich. Hold on. Our main topic is. Our main topic is he's great on dates but never texts. And this was a question from our love life webinar, Matt. And this is someone who said what do I do when there's a long break between texts? But he's great on our dates. We've been on three dates and we don't chit chat during. Hmm, three dates. So not long. Not long. Not six months and no chitchat. Three dates. But great on the dates.

I think that we, to an extent we try to look too much. Firstly, we expect a lot of closure very quickly in life and early dating doesn't offer a lot of closure. You know, it doesn't offer a lot of closure on how someone is or what their intentions are or why they didn't call back or why they haven't called us in two weeks but now all of a sudden want to see us. Early dating is very open ended and to an extent we sometimes underestimate our influence in the equation. So we're so busy looking for closure from somebody else. What do they want? What are their intentions? What are their patterns? Do they like me. Why aren't they texting me? That we forget that we actually play a role ourselves in shaping the dynamic. Early on, Mitch Albom said, if you don't like the culture, you have to be brave enough to create your own. Well, in a sense, he was not referring to dating, but you know, in a. That that idea relates to so many different things. We often go into situations complaining about the culture of the situation. You know, we go to a party and we complain. Oh, it's not a very fun party. Well, are you making it fun or are you just complaining that the party is not fun? We go on a date and we say, that person wasn't flirtatious, and, well, were you flirtatious? This person's communication is terrible. Well, is yours strong right now? Are you being proactive? Are you being vulnerable? And. And so we're kind of. A lot of us just go through life reacting to culture and complaining about culture instead of being brave enough to create our own culture. And one of the really powerful psychological effects when we decide to create culture is the phenomenon of reciprocity. Reciprocity is this idea that if we act first, that will create a reciprocal response from somebody else. Somebody else is influenced by that action. If I walk down the street and I look at you and you have a kind of grumpy face, and that I then decide as a result of that that I'm not gonna smile, and then I walk past you and I go, what a grumpy person that was. There's a kind of reverse reciprocity going on there, right? That your. Your mood right now, at least the way I'm reading it, may not even be true, but the way I'm reading it is that you're grumpy or you're standoffish, and therefore I don't smile at you when we walk past each other. Yeah. So you've had an effect on me. There's a reciprocity going on there. You haven't. I'm afraid you're not giving me anything, so I'm not going to give you anything. But what we don't know is what might have happened had you smiled. That might have created a different kind of reciprocity where that person suddenly felt like they could smile because they weren't going to get rejected or you were in a good mood and it lifted their mood. So the. I almost look at a situation like this and say, well, what would it look like if we were reverse engineering the kind of dynamic we want to have in early dating? She is saying that the dates are going great, but there's not much contact in the middle. And part of what she is looking for there is some kind of closure. Well, what does that mean? Does that mean he doesn't like me? Does it? It could mean, for example, we could speculate that what it means is that this guy is not really dating with any intention. And we might be right. It might be the case that he's not interested in actually getting to know her or building momentum, which is what someone builds or looks to build when they have true intentions. They want to build momentum. They don't want to leave you in any doubt as to whether they like you. They want to start to ratchet up the investment and to fill that from you in return. So we could, it would be fair to kind of make a guess that he's not dating with the same intention that she is. And that's why when he kind of wants some instant gratification, he goes on a date with her. And he very much enjoys being there. He clearly enjoys her company if he's on three dates with her or he's enjoying something about it. But he doesn't have any intention. He's not doing it with any purpose other than immediate gratification. And that's why she doesn't hear from him in between, because he's not actually looking to spend any time investing or getting to know her. That might be true. It also might be true that it's early in dating and within that three date window, he's just kind of got a lot on and a lot of other priorities and it's not the top of his list because she's not the top of his list right now. And that's also kind of understandable in the context of early dating. The point is we don't know and we can spend all our time trying to work that out. In a, in a way, what that is, is responding to culture, right? The culture of this situation right now with this guy is that they go on dates, have a good time, and then she doesn't hear from him in between. That's the culture. So rather than looking at why is the culture like this, which is a, can be a pointless exercise with no clear answers, what we can do is apply that, that phenomenon of reciprocity or make it work in our favor by saying, okay, what would this look like if I was creating the culture? In other words, rather than simply mirroring his behavior, what if I modeled the behavior I want to see? Because we have talked before about the idea that. And this is where I want to kind of clear something up, because people have heard us. If they've been longtime listener of the podcast or what viewer of our videos, they've heard me or you say some version of don't invest in someone based on how much you like them. Invest in them based on how much they invest in you.

Yeah.

Now that looks on the surface like a bit of a reactive approach. Yeah, that looks like waiting to see what the culture is and then responding to that.

So I just sit back and watch what vibrations come out, and I just decide to match them exactly.

Now that. That's mirroring and to use NLP language. And that has its place, right? That says don't invest more than they are. The only problem with that is that if everyone takes that approach and everyone is the two people in a dynamic in dating, then no one makes a move because we're all just waiting for the other person to make that first move. And then we go, okay, they did something. I'll now do the same amount. At some point, someone has to be brave enough to step out of mirroring and model the behavior they want to see in the other person. So there's mirroring and there's modeling. The modeling is the proactive part. The mirroring is the reactive part. When someone comes to us and says in between dates, he doesn't reach out. And I'm following your advice to invest in who invests in me and to invest as much as they do. Well, right now, based on what he's doing, I'm not doing anything. Now, that has the danger that we've just spoken about, which is that not only does it not go anywhere, but you also don't see whether you can get that reciprocal effect that can be achieved if you model the kind of communication you would like to see. So what we then say is, okay, maybe model. Be a little proactive right now by modeling what you'd like to receive. That means in a vulnerable and proactive way, without agenda, reaching out to this person. It could be in the form of, hey, how's your day? I was just thinking of you. It could be referencing a joke that you both had on the last date. It could be just letting someone know that you were thinking of them or that you'd like to see them again. But you are there modeling the behavior you want to see. And you might even do that a couple of times. It might be that you model the behavior you want to receive by picking up the phone and calling someone, thereby showing them that you are comfortable on the phone and that a phone call isn't a strange thing to you. That it's actually perfectly normal for you to have a phone call and therefore they should not feel embarrassed or, or ashamed to call or they shouldn't feel kind of like they're treading on eggshells around you. They should feel free to pick up the phone. That's modeling. Mirroring can turn from self respecting behavior if we're not careful, into a form of defensiveness or protectionism. You didn't text me. Well, I'm not going to text you. Then it can, it can be that kind of reactivity. So mirroring can be strong. If it's like, hang on, I'm respecting myself, you're not giving me a lot, so I'm not going to give you a lot. Which should be the case if we model first what we want to see and we find that consistently they do not meet us. There's at that point, mirroring makes an awful lot of sense in order to be self respecting. But if we just start by mirroring and we never do anything else, then it's not self respecting. It's a way to hide, it's a way to be defensive. In the book attached, it's what would be called protest behavior, right? I'm in some form or another, I'm acting out or hiding as a way of protesting the behavior in you that I don't like. That is now that is following. It's not leading. Leading comes when we model the behavior we want to see. Mirroring is appropriate when after having modeled the behavior we would like to see, they show that they are either incapable or unwilling or of meeting us there. And from the nature of this question, I see someone who's doing a lot of mirroring but who hasn't been vulnerable enough yet or brave enough yet to do a whole lot of modeling.

What you've just said there is really, really interesting to me. And I think essentially what you're saying is you need to turn it on its head and you need to see reaching out as not an act of desperation, but rather you being willing to ask for what you want. And what you're doing essentially is modeling, I think requires a lot of confidence and willingness to be vulnerable and putting yourself out there. What, what would you say in terms of. Because that's a very counterintuitive thing to do, especially I think for women where we're told that, you know, men will come to us and, and you know, we should not ever come across as Desperate. We shouldn't be the ones reaching out. We shouldn't be the ones initiating. So I totally agree with you. But, you know, for the person who is feeling like, well, that's all well and good, but, you know, I know that if I say that I'm going to come across as desperate or it might put him off, how would you kind of combat that way of thinking?

You're over modeling if it gets to that point. There's a. There's a spectrum, right, of pride to proactivity. Imagine pride on one side of the spectrum and proactivity on the other. Too much pride and you'll never do anything. You'll never reach out to anyone on a dating app. You'll never ask anyone out. You'll never pick up the phone to someone. You'll never be the one to text first. Pride will have you living in your cave with no opportunities. The extreme of proactivity is that you're always doing the chasing. The sweet spot is having enough proactivity to open the door to possibility in your love life, but enough pride to notice when someone is not meeting you there. And I don't think that has to be a lot in the context of, for example, the first three dates, that does not mean you're reaching out every day for three weeks. And if after three weeks, you realize there's a pattern of him not trying, you stop. It looks to me like once or twice in the first couple of weeks, you be the first one to reach out or give him a call and see where that goes.

I guess I meant. I agree with you, but I guess I meant in terms of, you know, we. We all know that the way you come across through messages has in large parts to do with how you feel inside yourself within that situation. And I think if you have the back at the back of your head, if you're coming at it from the point of view of, well, I sh. I. I'm worried that by reaching out and being the one being proactive, even if it is in an appropriate way, in an appropriate. To an appropriate level, I'm going to come across like I'm desperate. I think if you have that energy and that kind of feeling within yourself when you're doing it, you run the risk of just kind of scrambling your head in anxiety and not knowing how to be and not necessarily them being yourself and your messaging. I just. I just wonder whether there is a way of, I suppose, for someone to step into that power. Especially, like I say, as a woman, how do you kind of take Control of the situation in a way that feels organic to you and doesn't make you feel like you're somehow on the back foot by doing so. Because, you know, we hear a lot. Men like to chase. I mean, that is something that you hear even now in the modern dating world. I think you hear a lot of that. And I would argue people like to chase. But I do think that there is a rhetoric that's spoken quite a lot about that and it then becomes quite difficult for women to manage that.

That to me is 100% A. Obviously there are, in terms of language and tone, there are good ways to reach out to someone and there are bad ways to reach out to someone. Sending someone a message saying, hey, I was thinking of you, how's your day? Is a lot different than sending that and then sending a question mark 20 minutes later. If you don't hear from someone we know there's a we know one makes us cringe to even think about. And the other one feels just like a vulnerable act. Yeah, once feels vulnerable, one feels needy. So there are clearly good ways and bad ways to, to reach out to someone and model the other part of it, the part that you seem to be talking about, which is just the feeling that I am in some way being desperate by reaching out that lacks long term perspective. So, for example, we have a retreat program. I want people to come and experience the retreat. When we talk about the retreat, it's a, in a sense, it's a vulnerable act because I'm, I'm coming out and saying, I want you to come to this program. Yeah, in a sense, I'm asking, I'm saying, hey, I'm asking for your trust to come and join us on something that I know would be awesome if you would come and join us. But I also reserve the right, especially on the in person retreat, if someone is being a nuisance, if someone is being a, essentially a bad participant in the program, I reserve the right to fire someone from the program. I reserve the right to say to someone, hey, I've welcomed you into my house. Essentially, you are bringing a really toxic energy to this room. And it's beneath the standard that I expect of people who show up. So I, I reserve the right to remove you from my program. That's standard. That's me saying, I've invited you into my home. You've not been the kind of guest that I would have hoped and therefore you're no longer welcome in my home. Standards and an awareness that we have standards should dissolve that feeling of Desperation.

Yeah. And the confident people, the confident people, I know, it's like if they get turned down for, they make, try and make plans for Saturday night and they get turned down, they have such a feeling of relaxed abundance. They're chill about it or whatever. They've got standards. And if you were messing them about, they'd be like, I already made plans, sorry, like I didn't hear back from you. I made plans. There's kind of. Because they have that confidence, they're not sending the three question marks and waiting because they just know I've got a game plan. If that person's going to just stand there and drag their heels and mess around, okay, I've got a game plan. Here's what I'm going to do instead.

When you're feeling confident about the fact that on a longer perspective you have high standards and what you're really doing is assessing whether someone can deliver, then you just kind of have an internal attitude of it's on you. If you mistake my vulnerability for desperation and you'll quickly learn that you've miscalibrated here. If you mistake my vulnerability or my proact, my initial proactiveness for desperation.

Yeah.

And that to me is where, if you want early confidence in dating, it comes from changing where you derive your confidence from. Ed Mylett, a friend of mine who is the kind of business, what would you call him? Steve. He's a kind of a business guru online and someone who's been extremely successful and now helps other people do the same. He, by the way, Stephen, in case you didn't know, this is coming to join us in our Love Life Club in a couple of weeks time.

I did know that and I'm very excited about it.

Yeah, I very, very excited about this. And for anyone who isn't a member of the Love Life Club, when you do go and join for a free trial, you will be able to watch this Ed Miler interview provided you get into the Love Life Club before the 6th of July, which is when Ed is joining us. You'll be able to join us on that session live with Ed. You may even get a chance to ask him your personal question. But I was watching Ed some of content just the other day and he said something interesting relating to confidence. He said comfort if you have confidence because of your ability. And this is something he learned from Wayne Dyer. If you take your confidence from your ability, you're really in a dangerous place because the moment your ability gets called into question, the moment you fail, your confidence gets destroyed with that it certainly gets rocked. What Wayne Dyer said to him is, base your confidence in your intentions. In other words. And Wayne was talking to Ed here. He said, ed, you have a beautiful heart and you mean really well, and you have great intentions. So if you base how confident you are on your intentions, your confidence is going to be solid because you have great intentions.

I love that. I absolutely love that. I'm actually writing it down because I want to remember it.

It's beautiful because. And what Ed said, and I can't wait to talk to him about this personally in the. In the club, in the Love life club, what Ed said is that really helped me because I know my intentions are good. I know that I have a good heart. And so whatever else happens or doesn't happen, if I base my confidence there, I know that it. My confidence won't leave me. Well, I think of that in the context of early dating. If your confidence is based on whether this person likes you, you're in trouble. And of course, when you reach out and model the behavior you want to see from them by sending them a text or giving them a call, you're gonna feel afraid. If your confidence is based on whether they like you or whether they're going to think you're desperate. If your confidence is based on your intentions. And my intention is to a B, the kind of behavior that I'd like to see, and B, to see if you can deliver. Because ultimately, what do I want? I want a relationship with someone that can deliver. I want a relationship with someone who actually can communicate. So if I call you and you're incapable of having a phone call, you're telling me in one form or another that you are unable to deliver, and that then makes you less suitable for me as a partner, that makes you less interesting to me as a potential partner, your stock just went down. If my intention is to. To. To get you to like me and to. And. And if, you know, if you don't like me, if. Or I should say if my confidence is based on whether you like me, I have a problem. Because on any given day, anyone you meet could like or not like you. If it's based on an intention to see if you're suitable for me and you can deliver, then I'm not going to be afraid to make that call because the call itself is a qualifier.

I'd like to add to that one slight thing, which is also, if you can come to a person and just be the best version of yourself, your most. The version of yourself you're most proud Of. And that means not, you know, giving in to anxieties and texting too much. That does mean that as well. But it also means being open, being vulnerable, being able to put yourself out there. And if somebody ultimately does not respond to that in a way that you want to, I do actually think that there is. You can walk away from that situation knowing you couldn't have done any better.

Yep.

And I think there's something quite sort of comforting in that and kind of cathartic in that. And I think sometimes people say, you know, it's so much harder to be rejected when you've been your true self, and then you get rejected. I actually think that needs be.

To.

To be. We almost need to look at it in a different way, which is, if your truest, best version of yourself is not right for someone, then they're not right for you, because that's literally the version of yourself you're most proud of.

Which is a logic that should carry into relationships too. There's sometimes this real feeling of resentment, of, I gave so much and I did my best and they threw it all in my face. And I think that you have to look at that as, no, no, no. What's beautiful about that is I saw how great I can be in a relationship. That should give me confidence. I showed just how wonderful I can be as a partner. Now, that person turned out to be the wrong person for that, but I saw how great I can be. And by the way, if I modeled the best the kind of love I wanted to get and that person couldn't meet me there, that's actually the most peace of mind I can get.

Absolutely.

If I just mirrored their shitty behavior in the relationship. Well, that didn't tell me an awful lot. That's just two people mirroring each other's bad behavior. If I modeled the kind of love I want, which I was. Why. I think if you're unsure about a relationship you're in, one of the best things you can do is for a period of time. Time, call it three months, call it four or two months, whatever. For a period of time, model the exact kind of relationship you want to have for the other person in your behavior. In the way that you show up and see what that does for the relationship, see if that person is able to rise to that behavior. If they don't, that gives you much more closure on whether to stay in that relationship or not than to continue coasting at your current standard. That is probably, in large part, mirroring the standard they're bringing to the relationship.

I couldn't agree more.

A final thing I'll say is it's not awkward to have honest conversations. Even after three dates. It's not awkward. Like when you're coming from that place as well, you just don't feel as awkward because you feel very certain about what you want and what you need. And you're just like, how come we never talk between dates? Like, you can just say that and feel very relaxed about it. And you might, okay, you might say you're not going to immediately come out with that because it might seem a bit like they haven't had a chance to explain themselves or to say, oh, I didn't know. Like, we always have to accept the fact that maybe sometimes some people have different communication than we do and they might go, oh, I didn't realize, sorry, and they'll immediately change. But you just have that in a very straightforward way. And it doesn't have to be this awkward, intense thing. Oh, I want to bring this up with you. Just like, oh, I never hear from you. I haven't heard from you. But then we have amazing time in person.

You know what, to add nuance to that, I think that the first honest conversation isn't a literal one. I think the first conversation is a modeling of the behavior you want. That's, that's a way of having a conversation. I'm sure showing you I'm modeling for you the kind of communication I'd like to see. I see if you respond to that now, if you don't respond to that, that's when, if I'm seeing a pattern in you that I don't like and I think it's worth having the conversation, then I might have the conversation. Now, I would add there that we've, and we've said this before, we won't go into this in this episode, but it's something we can elaborate on in the future. We certainly elaborate on this practically every month in the Love Life Club. But the initial conversations can have a playfulness to them or a lightness to them. Especially if you don't know someone very well. And there are lots of ways to do that. If, by the way, you want to learn more about how that can be done. We have a program called how to Talk to Men that literally shows you how to have standards based conversations in a light hearted way with someone you don't know very well so that you can sculpt the early relationship you want with them in a way that's not too serious and full on. And if you want right now you can get a free chapter of that program. Atget the freechapter.com we actually give you a chapter of that program for free just so that you can go and try it out. So I would recommend everyone go and get that chapter. It's. You just go to the domain, get the freechapter.com and you can download that. But that, I would say is the interim stage before having a more serious conversation. That might happen when you know someone a little better or you're further along in the dynamic. But I agree with you, Steve. It's. But it's all about cadence. It's the cadence of things. If you get the cadence wrong, or I should say it's. It's almost a semantics thing. If the the it should be model first, allude to the behavior you want verbally, second, albeit playfully or with a wink. And then the more serious conversations come later. Once you get to that point, if you mix up the semantics of that, it can go. It can go really wrong. This has been, I think, a really, really. I honestly, I want to say I think this is one of the strongest episodes we've ever done on the podcast.

Oh, he went there.

Really. I think this is incredibly valuable. What we've talked about today and is going to help a lot of people. You tell us in the emails. Podcastthewhussey.com Tell us what you thought of this episode and please leave us a review on itunes as well. We really do appreciate them. If you go to itunes, go to the Love Life podcast and leave us a review. We are reading them in each episode. We're reading them out loud and we really just appreciate them. They help spread the word about this podcast, which we're trying to do right now because as you can see, we're putting a lot of effort into it and we really just want to get it to more people. Speaking of which, Steven, what is our latest iTunes review and who's it from?

It's from JMO Monkey, who says that intro, though I gotta say, my number one favorite part of listening to the show regularly is that amazing jazzy intro tune each episode opens with. It never fails to get me bobbing my head to the beat and excited to listen in. This show is amazing and asks us to acknowledge the elephant in the room when it comes to modern dating. It tackles the darker challenges we don't normally love to admit we struggle with from multiple perspectives. Both the Hussie brothers are refreshing and pleasant to listen to as they narrate the more serious topics we have weighing on our mind, but always include some comical relief to make you giggle along with it. Congratulations on the engagement, Matt. I hope you won't leave us single people in the dust now that you're a husband to be, but I won't blame you if it was time to switch it up. Best wishes.

Well, I definitely am not going to leave you in the dust. We're. We're here to stay and we're going to keep helping people. It's just really fun to be able to keep including more and more experience in my own life in the equation. And also we've got the. The gift of Audrey being here with us. Which, by the way, Stephen, Roxy, someone who emailed in as well, she emailed to podcastthewhussey.com actually wrote about that development. She said why you choose the wrong partner was one of the best episodes you guys have ever created to date. Everyone needs to hear that particular episode. Not only was all the content hilarious and profound, but because Jameson and Audrey were a part of the episode, I felt like I was sitting down having the best conversation with four of my intelligent and thoughtful friends. I would love it if you included Audrey in more episodes because having the voice of a woman eliminates my own bias to want to say that you're only saying what you're saying because you're a man. I can tell by the way Audrey speaks that she is mindful and intelligent. Matthew, you literally chose well and you are modeling for the rest of us clueless, hopeless, chronic singles. I would never call you that, Roxy, nor any of our listeners how to do relationships correctly. The podcast is long overdue for a female voice. Keep up the amazingness. Roxy.

Roxy, that's so nice.

It's really lovely, isn't it? And you know what's exciting? As of next week, because Audrey and I are traveling back to LA from London, we will have Jameson back on the podcast as a background voice. So you will have all four of us on the mic at that point, and that's going to be really fun. So make sure you tune into the next episode where Jameson will be making his reappearance. And I second what Roxy said. I think having all of us here just gives us different perspectives, different voices and all. I wouldn't, I wouldn't let anyone near this podcast who wasn't intelligent and thoughtful and humble in their approach, which both of you are and is James, and so is Jameson. So thank you to all of you listening. What a wonderful time this was to spend together. And we look forward to doing it again in the next episode of Love Life. Stephen thank you sir.

Thank you friends and Pickles.

Thank you Audrey thanks guys. This was so much fun.

Harry, thank you for filling in on tech today because I know it's a lot to not have Jameson around and you do a terrific job, sir.

Thank you very much.

Thank you Matthew and thanks to all of you listening. We really appreciate you. We'll see you in the next episode. Don't forget to share this episode with as many people as possible on your social media. Maybe we'll repost it if you do. We appreciate your time. Love you guys.

Bye guys.

Thanks.

Thank you for listening everybody. Do not forget to go and watch the replay of the Year of Love event I did this month. It's completely free, but it's only available a couple more days. This is going to set you up to find the love you want in 2026. Come and watch it now before it disappears. You can watch it@mhyearoflove.com that's mhyearoflove.com I will see you there.

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