How To Attract and Keep The Relationship You Really Want

Every day, our world gets a little more connected, but a little further apart. But then there are moments that remind us to be more human.

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And so all these things were the signals that I had learned weren't the right signals for a healthy relationship for me. But the truth was is that we have exactly the same value system.

How did you know that?

My friends, today I have something so special for you on the Love Life Podcast. A dear friend of mine has come along to re-release her book, Radical Confidence: 11 Lessons on How to Get the Relationship, Career, and Life youe Want. Her name is Lisa Bilyew. She is the entrepreneur producer, best-selling author, public speaker and host. She co-founded the billion dollar brand Quest Nutrition and is the co-founder and president of Impact Theory Studios, a revolutionary digital first studio that produces wildly entertaining and original content focusing on themes of confidence and empowerment. And she is joining us today to talk about a brand new chapter that she has added to this book on relationships and finding love. I have never seen Lisa be as vulnerable and as open as she was in this conversation. She goes all the way back to before her marriage with Tom Bilyeu to a time when she herself was struggling with confidence, where she was accepting toxic and difficult behaviour from someone, where she found it hard to leave, and where she had to do the brave work of healing so that she could finally meet the person that was right for her. It is a powerful conversation. I am so excited for you to listen to this and we get to talk all about her brand new chapter in her book, Radical Confidence. This book is a great accompaniment to this conversation. So if you have not got a copy, grab a copy of the new paperback. It has just come out and I highly, highly recommend it. Lisa is one of the most authentic authentic, bold, and unashamedly individual people I have ever met. And I am so excited, especially if you don't know Lisa, to introduce you to her in this conversation. I present to you Lisa Billiau.

Lisa Billiau, my friend, welcome. It's so good to have you here on the Love Life podcast, because I'm normally trundling over To your house, where it's really hard to coax you out, and I have to come well into the lair in order to be with my friend Lisa and do the Women of Impact podcast, of course. But now I get you, I've kidnapped you.

Uh-oh, it's not very back.

Yeah, we've got you in our home for a six or seven hour podcast. And we get to talk all about you for a change.

Oh no, I wanna talk about you, Matt Hussie.

No, no, no. I have so many questions. questions for you today. This is exciting to me because not only are you releasing radical confidence in paperback on April 30th, but there's a new chapter that you have added. And I know so many of my audience have already got the book and so many of them are going to want to now go and pick it up again for this chapter. The chapter itself. Can you give us the name of it? Because it's so relevant to our audience.

Yeah, absolutely. Leave the loser. Choose yourself.

Leave the loser, choose yourself. So why is it that we find it so difficult in your mind to leave someone who is bad for us?

There's so many things but ultimately it comes down to how do you feel about yourself when you're by yourself? And the truth is if you don't feel good enough, if you don't feel worthy, and there's someone lying next to you that just gives you even a crumb. It's that one moment of hope. It's that one moment of maybe I'm not worthless, maybe I'm not a loser, all that negative voice that you have in your head. And so you look externally for that proof. Now, sometimes when it's a toxic person, they may know just enough, they may be nice just enough to hold you there. And that's the thing, is that if they were truly bad, if they were truly toxic, if they were truly no good for you, I think you would spot that immediately. There's no joy to your life, you leave them. But they know exactly what they're doing. They know how to manipulate you enough. And look, I get it. That's where I was, where I was feeling completely insecure, completely worthless. And here was this guy that would come along and tell me I was beautiful. Now in that moment, it made me feel good. If I felt good by myself, going back to the answer, how do you feel about yourself when you're by yourself? If I could validate myself, if I could give myself the words of encouragement, then I wouldn't turn to somebody else. but I didn't feel good about myself. I did think that I was worthless. And so I turned to somebody that just momentarily made me feel good. And that every time you leave, you miss it. You miss the Ramani calls it the euphoric recall. And so you recall those moments that made you feel amazing. And those are the things you hold on to.

Why do you think it is that we miss the the great moments, but we don't connect to the absence of the bad things. Because when we leave, the bad things now are no longer in our lives in the same way, right? We're not getting the abuse or the toxicity. We might feel more at peace. You know, there's all these headaches and problems that we suddenly aren't experiencing every day. by being away from someone like that. Why is it you think we miss the good stuff but we don't connect to the bad stuff that we're no longer experiencing?

Well, okay, I think it goes in stages. So just like grief, it goes in stages. I think when you leave someone, I at least had a phase and a steps that I would almost go through and it became this cycle. So he would do something terribly wrong, verbally abuse me, call me names, I was like, I'm leaving you, enough's enough, and you leave, you've got that anger, that anger will fuel you for like a day or two. Then the anger starts to dissipate a little and then it starts to become a little sad. And then that sadness starts to go into loneliness and that loneliness starts telling you something about yourself. For me, it was telling me that you're no good by yourself, that you had validation when you were with him. And so it slowly goes from like, almost think of a seesaw, right? Where you've got the weight of the toxic person and then you've got the joy of leaving them. and it just starts to tip, right? And over time, the weight of them like being toxic, you're like, okay, I've had enough. But then it just starts to slowly swing again in the other way. And so the moments where you started to feel badly about yourself and you want to leave and you finally do, it starts to go away. And what you end up with are those moments that feel good because those are the things that I think almost like through evolution, right? It's like, okay, when something feels good, like sugar, what do you do? You seek for it in abundance because you don't know when it's going to come back again. Well, obviously, in today's society, that's now unfortunately equated to obesity. But what's that of the heart, right? Okay, you keep going back to somebody who doesn't treat you well, but it's because, let's say, society judges you for being single, for being in your 40s and not having anybody. And so you have all this external dialogue that I think dictates how you start to show up, that how you start to show up dictates your belief system, and it goes both ways.

Firstly, take me back, because when people see you today, there is this, this, like, Lisa that is formidable and is powerful, and you associate with just this, this level of strength and confidence and boldness. It would be hard for people, I think, to like, try and picture you as in any way, I don't know how you would have described yourself at that time, but whether it's scared or down on yourself or meek or afraid.

A Chihuahua.

Chihuahua, that's how you would describe yourself. So take us back to Chihuahua Lisa.

And.

How do we get back to her from who you are today?

Yeah, I definitely wasn't confident. My confidence came with time and age. And so back then, that was one of the reasons why I stayed. So I was 15 years old. I was bullied and teased. I didn't feel pretty ever. And at 15, there was a boy that was finally interested in me. And so that alone became the validation that I'd been seeking, that the movies told me my whole life that I was going to get to. And because I didn't have the self-esteem and I didn't understand what a value systems meant, what my morals were, I didn't have any boundaries. So along comes him and I basically was like, oh, do what you can to keep the guy. And that was my MO. It was, oh, okay, he wants this. Okay, then I'll do that. He wants me to dress like this. I'll dress like that. And in the moment, I got tremendous validation out of those, out of that time, because he would make a comment about another girl, oh, look at her skirt. You should wear a skirt that short. Now, what it was doing was triggering, triggering all of my insecurities, my jealousy, and it gave me an option at the time. I was like, wow. if I want him to be attracted to me, I guess I'm gonna have to wear a short skirt. And so I started to mold myself, not realizing it, into the person that he wanted. Now look, I don't think he was deliberate. He also was 15, 16. So it's not like he had this whole strategy where he's going down with this game plan. It just evolved enough where I think he realized certain things that he could say that would trigger me to then act. And before you know it, three years later, I'm a totally different human. I'm not standing up for myself. I have zero boundaries. And so when you ask me, what type of woman was I? I was the chihuahua because the chihuahua is small and it freaking barks. Why does a chihuahua bark as much as it does? Because it doesn't know how else to protect itself. So it just keeps yelling as a defense mechanism. That was me. So over time, I realized that almost the only way I could survive. Now, I actually don't mean that from a, like my actual life was at stake. It wasn't. But I mean, emotionally survive was over time. I gave as good as I got. And so as he was toxic, as his behavior escalated, mine did too. And I did become that two hour. It was the only way I could survive. And so if he was gonna yell at me, I started to yell just as much back. Now what that did though is entangled us even more, enmeshed us even more into that dynamic. And I didn't realize. And it wasn't until I had to just over time realize what relationship do I want? Do I actually wanna be here for the next 20 years? He was diminishing my dreams. He was putting me down every step of the way. Do I still want that? And then it became this pivotal moment where I just changed because I was going to college. So I almost was thrusted out of that environment. And I think when you are pulled out of something, it's easier to see, you know, that's why they call it the bird's eye view, because you can really see what something is. And so me going to college ended up being that kind of catalyst and that pivot of like, I don't want this relationship in five years. I don't want to feel like this in 10 years. And so I was around new people, learning new skill sets. and boundaries is a skill set. Standing out for yourself is a skill set. Confidence is a skill set. And so it just takes these little moments, these little times that really do end up stacking up. And like I was saying, it's not just though in that relationship arena. It is in other places. It was, I was starting to do better in school. I was starting to make better movies. I was starting to actually do well. I was starting to take all these different classes and pass them. So I was building really the validation in myself in all these other areas that allowed me to not just necessarily rely on one person to make me feel good about myself.

A lot of people, when they go to find something else, they don't know what the right thing even is. You know, they've experienced the wrong thing for so long or something that hurts them that it's, you know, Audrey always says, you know, chase the right things, you know, and she doesn't really mean Chase, but, like, When we spend our lives chasing the wrong things, it reliably makes us unhappy, so chase the right things. But a lot of people don't know what the right things are. What are those things that I should be gravitating towards? How do I know them when I see them? What should I be choosing based on? So when you met Tom, what made you go beyond feeling attracted? Well, I suppose at first, were you attracted? Was there an attraction immediately? and then how did it develop after that into something that you felt like was actually better and healthier and worth giving your time and energy to?

Yeah, so the funny thing is if we were dating and we were on dating apps, he would never have dated me and I never would have dated him.

Why wouldn't you have dated him?

We wouldn't have been matched. Because on the surface at the time, I was 21 years old and thinking what I wanted wasn't actually what makes for a great relationship. And so what I thought I wanted was like a guy with a really nice car and he puts on a suit and he wears cologne, all very visual, right? Because I was kind of taught growing up in North London where it was like if a guy drove a nice car, it means he could provide. And growing up Greek Orthodox, that was drummed into me every single frickin day was you need to find a man that's gonna provide. So subconsciously you're looking for these moments in these things that signal to you that this person can provide. And so that was one thing. Also just people say, oh, you've got to do things that you have in common. Tom and I, literally opposing music. I get in his car and I call it the screaming music where it's just like head banging and screaming and I can't understand the word of it. And I love R&B and hip hop. So it's like all these little things that I thought I wanted, where I thought, okay, the car, he pulls up and he's driving this old man Buick and it's so dirty and his back seat is literally tucker full of just his garbage and his leftover clothes. And it looked like a, you know, home storage or whatever you call it in his back seat. And so all these things were the signals that I had learned weren't the right signals for a healthy relationship for me. But the truth was, is that we have exactly the same value system.

How did you know that?

We didn't. And so it just developed over time.

So what made you even give him a chance?

He was hot as hell. I wanted a summer fling.

Got it.

We were both just physically attracted to each other. And on that first date, the man opened his mouth with his first question, and I was like, you're fascinating. Like, his questions were so, like, they would test me and they would, like, really make me think about things.

Yeah, I've experienced that.

Yes. Many times.

Yeah, that's been my experience of your husband.

I think it's been everyone's experience with him. And in that moment though, it's just his fascination and his curiosity. And I never had a conversation with a guy who actually cared about what I thought. Like actually cared. And so when he's asking me like, oh, do you watch porn? Like he wasn't like, Hey, do you watch porn? You know, like it wasn't like that. He was just like really curious about like, oh yeah, you know, I hear women watch porn. He's like, I watch Sex in the City so I can learn about women. And he would read the Cosmopolitan magazine so he could. And he's like, so question number 27. you know, like he was truly fascinated. And that was the first time anyone actually cared about what I thought and how I felt. So that became the moment where it's like, huh, something's different about this guy. He didn't care about what restaurant we went to. It was like this old, like hole in the wall, Chinese, like in a strip mall with a B rating with rips in the seats as our first date, Matt. First date. And so I was expecting, you know, five star because that was what I was used to again, going back to where I was brought up and how I thought. And so we walk into this really crap ghetto restaurant. I'm like, he brought me here. And the poor man was like, oh, yeah, I really love their food. And he really meant it. He just loved their food. And so he didn't try and, like, you know, catch the. The fish. And so I was just so appreciative of him being really in naturally inquisitive of who I was. And so that started to really evolve as our discussions, as we started to date more and more, that we were like, we never watched television. And we, you know, we would entertain ourselves. We would go and go on photo shoots. We would take our cameras and we would go to the desert and do this photo shoots and then go back to his house. And we, he had this little green dark room and we would print our own film, like you see in the movies where it's all red in there. And so it really allowed us to to appreciate the arts, encourage each other's creativity. No one had ever done that with me. He was so curious, he made me think about things. He never pigeonholed me. And so thinking about, obviously, all in hindsight, what we were doing is we were understanding each other's value systems. We were understanding what actually drove each other instead of just seeing what was on the surface.

How did you stop yourself from being deterred by those things that normally would have been markers of like not for me.

It feels like thoughts over feelings. I think I was thinking a lot, I don't want a guy with this type of car. I want somebody that's like this. Instead of actually going, well, why? First of all, why do you not want someone with a certain car or with a certain dress sense? Like, why is that important to you? But once I started to realize that thought was, oh God, his car's really crap. The feeling is, oh my God, he just opened the car door for me. how romantic. So it was that thought and then the feeling would come. So the thought was, oh my God, we've gone to this terrible strip mall restaurant. He listens to screaming music. And then the feeling is, wow, he's just so beautifully curious and asking me questions because he actually seems like he cares. And so as the feeling started to escalate and get stronger, I started, they started to overpower the thought. And that's when I realized all of my belief systems around who I wanted was all superficial. It was all things that were told to me or things that were, you know, shown to me growing up, whether that was from my grandmother who had an old Greek belief system, whether that was TV, whether, you know, we want to blame Disney with all the movies that they made about the prince coming to save you. But the truth is, I think that I never really questioned my thoughts enough.

I think what we forget is how much thoughts can get in the way of who we could be attracted to. If you've told yourself a story already that someone who dresses like that or someone who does that job or someone who whatever it may be, it could be someone with that accent. There's so many ways that we disqualify people early on. If you've told yourself a story that that's not what you're into, then you're not even really open for attraction to even happen. chemistry to happen, to even explore what you might have with someone. So it's almost, I suppose, is it lucky that when you saw him, you thought he was hot? Probably. There's a bit of like, that was fortunate because it made you overlook certain things, at least in the very beginning.

Yeah.

Well, what's interesting, as you're talking, I was thinking there's almost like two paths, right? There's the person that was like, nah, they don't fit the mold that I think, and they just dismiss them.

Right?

That's, you could be dismissing someone that actually could be perfect for you. But then there's the other thing that people like, I like this about them. I don't like that. I don't like that. I don't like, oh well we'll just change their dress sense. Oh we'll just change his job and the other one's just as dangerous where you get with them because you think I'm just gonna change all these things that I don't like instead of like saying, do I accept this person for actually who they are? If I can't change their clothes, if I can't change whatever you want to change about them, Would I still want to be with them? Because I think you need to go into that relationship thinking that you're not gonna change them. You shouldn't want to change them, right? If you don't like their dress sense, which I didn't like Tom's dress sense, I still tried to change him, but it was like, I did that myself. But it only leads to him feeling badly about himself. Me put, it's like a weird dynamic, puts me in a almost like authoritative position where it's like, no, I don't like your shoes. I don't like that. And that isn't healthy for a relationship. So I think ultimately you wanna get to a place where you can accept them, for just who they are.

Before we continue with the episode, whether you are old or new to the Love Life Podcast, you may not know that we have a free training with me called Dating With Results, where over an hour I am with you showing you the foundations of creating the love life you want. Dating is hard. It is not easy. It is confusing. And we meet a lot of bad behavior, flaky people, people who don't want the same things as we do. And if we're not careful, we can waste an incredible amount of our precious time with the wrong people. Dating with results is about getting you the love life, the person that you deserve, by showing you practical ways to start to make progress in your love life. and find love faster. So if you have not already, please take advantage of this free training. You can find it at DatingWithResults.com this is just one hour of powerful content for you to help you in your love life today. So go to DatingWithResults.com and watch it right now. Alright, let's get back back to Lisa Biller.

The second half of the title of this new chapter in the book is choose yourself. How to choose yourself. Firstly, what does choosing yourself mean? And how does it lead to you being able to have the kind of boundaries that you suggested? What does choosing yourself mean? And what is the Practical side of that?

Yeah.

So choosing yourself means making sure that you are always firm on your values. no matter what, somebody else coming along trying to change them or even just like nudge them over. So it is making sure that you are always, you know, your North Star and someone doesn't come along with a different compass to lead you astray. And even if you love them, even if you want to be with them. So choosing yourself when it's not easy. And I didn't do that over and over and over again. I chose him.

Him.

I kept choosing him instead of myself. So I think it comes back to like write out your value system. And what I mean by that is not like I like this music or your hobbies. A lot of people would write out their hobbies when you say your value system. It isn't that. Value system is like I value family and friendships over business and money.

What if your value system is I value love over all else? You know, I think love is the most important thing in the world. And so that value has made it so important to you to find love. And it also becomes the reason why you overlook so many things. Because in your mind, you're like, I just. This is the most important thing in the world for me to find. And I will never be happy until I find it. Because this is the most important thing to me. It's more important than business. It's more important than success or status or anything else. What if your value is leading you to those kinds of situations where you overlook a lot?

All right, so put it like this. How much do you love your wife?

Oh, that's a difficult question to answer. An unimaginable amount. I don't know how to describe it.

Would you say that you love her more than you value your own life?

Sorry, is this a Tom Bilyeu interview? This is like a Tom Bilyeu scenario.

You're right.

Sophie's choice, your wife or yourself.

Well, here's what I think.

Go on.

If someone breaks in, yeah, I've, yeah, I've put my life on the line.

You're gonna 100%.

Okay, amazing. But if you're on a plane and it's going down, do you put the oxygen mask on yourself first or do you put it on her?

Myself.

Why?

Because they always say, you don't want.

To get in trouble with that.

On your own oxygen mask before someone else's. Well, because if I. If I. Yeah, if I.

If I.

If.

If I can't breathe and I die first, then I can't even be of service.

Exactly. That's exactly how I feel about love, is that. Yes. Like, I love my husband so much.

I.

He would never. He would hate it if I did that, but I would jump in front of a bullet for him. Hell's yes. Wouldn't think twice in a heartbeat. but the truth is when it comes to love, if you don't put yourself first, how can you be there for them? Like if you really love Audrey and you know life's never going to be easy and you actually want to be there for her, you want to be there for her when she's struggling, you want to be there for her when she's going through all these different things in life. If you don't take care of yourself, how are you going to be there for her? So I think of it like that where it's like, yes, love may be your most important thing, but love doesn't mean then sacrificing yourself in service of it.

When you had a girls night recently and you, Audrey was just popping out for a couple of hours and then came back like seven hours later. And you said there was a piece of advice you gave to Audrey that will help so many women.

Yeah.

So I don't know what this is. And Audrey didn't tell me this, so I want to hear this.

All righty then, Audrey. So. We were talking about, wait, wait, wait.

Before you do this.

Oh yeah.

Where should people go to get the book? Is there a specific website?

Yeah, so if you buy the book anywhere, but then you go to radicalconfidence.com, there's a bunch of bonuses. So Tom and I actually did an exclusive hour coaching class and it hasn't ever been released and so we're offering that for free. That's literally me and Tom. I think we actually made bicker in the middle of it or something like that. I believe that. That's a surprise. Yeah. And then you get a workbook that also goes with the book. So you can actually take workshops and stuff like that. So you can go to radicalconfidence.com once.

You'Re going to want to do it just for that conversation between Tom and Lisa, because it is never dull. Watching you guys give relationship advice is one of the great joys of my life. Radicalconfidence.com is that link. Amazing. So yeah, okay, tell us.

I was telling Audrey about one of the biggest arguments that Tom and I are still working through right now.

Now.

And this happened years ago, and we're still talking about it. So I watched an interview. I think it was like a round table with Jada Pinkett Smith and Will Smith, and they were talking about one of their biggest conflicts, and it was that Jada just wants to be with Will, and Will thinks he has to give her a lot of things. So he builds this house, and he's, I'm doing it for my family. And she's like, you're spending too much time on it. I just want to be with you. He's like, what do you mean? I'm building this house for my family. And he's spending all this time building, building. She's like, I I don't want it, you're doing it for you. And she's like, no, no, I'm doing it for my family. So then he buys her this massive house and she's like, I didn't even want the house. And so they, you know, like they kind of move on, but he's just like really upset that she's not happy. So then it's like her birthday and she's like, I just wanted something mellow, really intimate friends, like really just us lot, and he throws a massive surprise birthday party. And he's like, I did it for you. And she's like, what he didn't realize is that over and over and over again, he keeps doing all of this work and all of this effort showing up thinking that it's for me, but really it's to fill his own ego. And he's sitting there going, yeah, you're right, it is my own ego. And I was like, oh my God, this is me and Tom. He does it for himself. Thank you, the Smiths. I feel like I've just taken the blinders off. Wow, this is changing my relationship. I can't wait to tell Tom. I sit him down. I'm like, babe, I can't believe this. I just discovered this. And he looks at me after I'm like, and babe, you're doing it all for you. and he looks at me and he's like, you've missed the point. I was like, what do you mean? He's like, that's not accurate at all. And actually, it's the opposite. And I'm like, what do you mean? So it turns out what I've realized after all these years, 23 years of being with my husband, guys, I finally, finally figured this out. He says, babe, I do it for us. But it's not that I want you to be appreciat, like, not just that I want you to thank me for it. I want you to actually appreciate the fact that I'm doing it for us. And I was like, well, but if you're doing it for you, who thinks it's doing it for us, and I just want to spend time with you, I actually appreciate the time with you, not the time that you're putting to do this thing for us. And I just couldn't understand his position and he couldn't understand mine. I kept saying, you,'re doing it for you, and I respect that. And he's saying, I'm doing it for us and I want you to appreciate. So I'm like, but how do I appreciate it when you're taking away the thing that I want, which is you? So it was this head-to-head conflict where he wants something that I feel like is the opposite of what I'm looking for. And we just kept coming to a head. And so what I said to Audrey is, let me save you. Because she was like, yeah, you know, Matt loves doing what we're doing. We're building this business together. But, you know, he's really doing it for himself. I'm like, don't tell him that. Do not say that to him. Let me save your relationship. What you need to do is you need to pull him aside and say, Matt, I know that you're doing this for us, and I appreciate all the time that you're taking to do this for us. And also, I'd love to spend more time with you. But if, like, I was like, I don't want you to do it for me. I want you to spend more time with me. I was actually not understanding what his love language was. was and it was a language of appreciation for how hard he works. And if all I do is complain about how hard he works, he interprets that, he interprets it to mean that I don't respect how hard he works. And so I'm in the process of figuring out how I show him my appreciation and I show him the respect, but I also get what I want, which is more time with him. It's complex. What's your thinking on all of this, Matthew?

I think. Oh, this is so complicated. I think. So Tom needs you to acknowledge that he's doing it for the two of you.

To show my appreciation that he's working as hard as he is for us both. And I used to say to him, you're doing it for yourself so that you feel a certain way about how you show up in the relationship. Because he wants to say, I'm. I'm as.

Because this is like a source of validation for him that he gets to provide. impressed, do these things. This is a big part of his identity.

Correct.

He's doing these things.

And I'm saying that I do not.

Value.

What he is doing.

God, that's complicated.

So, yeah.

Because he'd have to check. Because. Because you could say, I want you to do this less and give me what I really want, which is time.

Correct.

But he'd have to change his entire way of his entire kind of how he identifies.

He would have to change his value system. So now actually looping everything together when I said, what's your value system? He would have to change his entire value system of who he is as a man to show up in this relationship.

Yes, and what gives him value? as a man, right?

Correct.

Yeah.

And so here's, here's, I'll tell you how I'm now handling it. So instead of thanking him and appreciating how much he works, I pick specific things. So, for instance, he always handles all the legal issues that our company ever has. And it's because I really don't want to deal with legal stuff. And so I just say, I really appreciate how much you take off my plate and handle the legal issues. I really appreciate the intensity in which you showed up for your interview to date.

Right.

So let's say he takes takes 10 hours to prep for an interview. And I'm like, I don't want him to prep for 10 hours. I don't say that, but let's just say for argument's sake, instead of me complaining, instead of me going, you,'re doing it for you, I can actually understand where his value comes and say, I appreciate how seriously you take your role in the company so that you show up and actually nail that interview. Right? So I'm showing my appreciation for that. But that doesn't mean that I'm silent about what I so then that's the next part where I'm like, I need, right? So you actually separate the two. It's not, I want you to not work so that I can spend time with you. It's, I want to show my appreciation for everything you do. And also, I would like to spend more hours with you. Let's, how do we do that? And so you actually separate the two. This was my new strategy where you separate the two. Now he still feels very valued. He still feels very appreciated. I'm able to say that I appreciate him without lying because that was a thing. I'm never gonna say it back. And that was my stick and and I'm like, but I don't appreciate how long you work and I don't appreciate how the hours you put in because I'd rather you be with me. So now I just piver and I say, I appreciate the what you do and I would appreciate if you can schedule some time to spend with me. So you're separating the two, you're making them feel very valued and very valuable in what they do and how they show up, but then you're also addressing your needs. It's freaking complex and this is why when it comes to relationships, you want to know how Thomas and I have worked for 23 years because we're willing to do this type of work where it's like, oh, that's so nuanced, that's so detailed. But you said this word. Okay, well, what does this word mean to you compared to what this word means to me? Oh, got it. I can't say that word because actually you think that that's an insult. I don't mean that word as an insult. Like, for instance, if I call you dude, right? Like, some people are like, oh, she called me dude or homie. Oh, my God, she called me homie. She's one of my homies. Some people see that word as an insult. so understand the words you use with your partner so they can hear the message you actually mean, not the message that they interpret what you're saying in. It's freaking hard. It's so complex. But I won't give up, Matt. I won't give up. And so that's where two years ago we went from that whole, like, the appreciation thing. And I'm like, I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna say that I appreciate you working this hard because I to now where you find me today, a couple of years later, finding the nuance so that I don't lie, so that he still feels valued and so that we're still communicating. I didn't give up. He didn't give up. We didn't dismiss each other. I didn't make his values seem pathetic or mine seem pathetic or, you know, demean each other because that's where relationships end up going. You don't get what the other person's saying. You either demean them, you brush past it, you make them wrong, or you pretend it doesn't happen. none of those will resolve this specific issue. And I'm just telling you, men want to feel appreciated. And that was my conclusion with Audrey. I was like, no matter what happens, no matter what, he wants to feel appreciated for how hard he works.

Interesting. I would add a nuance to that because when I think about that for myself, and Tom and I, we share some DNA in the way we're engineered and other areas we're very different.

Different.

When I think of how hard I work and when I think of the my ambition over time and how that's manifested at different ages, and it certainly manifests in some ways similar today as it always has, but also very differently today than it maybe did when I was 25. I would say.

I.

It'S nice to have appreciation for how hard I work, but I think what makes me feel seen as well is appreciation for how hard it is for me to unwire that.

Do you want to unwire how hard you work?

Yes.

Interesting.

Yeah, that's where I mean, me and Thomas slightly were different because for me, I want to find a rhythm that is better in life. I'll never not work hard because it's kind of not. I'm not engineered to not do hard things, but the mutation of that is the, like, masochistic level of work. the level of working that ceases to make work fun, where it's no longer enjoyable. It's just I'm always operating at this near overload. And I would say what would make me feel very unseen is if Audrey had no context for why I'm like that and where that comes from in my life and instead just said, basically shamed me for like working as hard as I do or for like always working or for as opposed to when this is where Audrey is, as you know, a Jedi, is with empathy. And because she understands there's a, like my nervous system is very much trained to feel in danger if I'm not killing myself. and that there's a lot of unwiring that has to happen for me to slow down and that that's a process and it takes a lot for me to do that. That acknowledgement of how hard it is for you to shift this because of your history and because of your background and because of your influences in life. That acknowledgement of how hard it is for me to shift that is one of the things I would say that means the that in a way, that's like a form of appreciation for me, is that I appreciate that your wiring is different to mine. And a, you get more enjoyment out of going this crazy than I do. But B, you, it's also harder for you to unwind because you have your own set of influences that have made you feel like in order to be safe, you have to kill yourself working really hard. but it's really interesting. And if nothing else, I think what it proves is understanding the engineering of your partner and truly empathizing and showing that you see them.

Yeah.

For their engineering is so valuable. And that's what. What's so clear about you and Tom is that you just. You have studied each. each other. And by studying each other, you've just made it so that no one else could ever come close to making you guys as happy as the two of you make each other. Because you two have, like, spent time on that manual of each other's brains like no one else has.

Yeah.

And that I find that inspiring. And it's something me and Audrey look at you guys, and we're like, there's something so special about their relationship. There's something so special about what they figured out. And it's very, very inspiring to us. So yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah, well, thank you for sharing that. And I think that that really, it goes back to knowing the partner and the appreciation part of it, right? The work thing is just like my example with Tom, but he loves working as hard as he does, right? So it's not like he's draining himself. He feels shitty. Like it's like, oh my God, this is an addiction that I need to unwind. he actually likes working that hard because it gives him a sense of satisfaction. But to your point, it's really the fundamental thing of what is your partner doing? And ultimately, people want to be appreciated. I don't care who you are, whether it's your business partner, friends, romantic partner, every single person wants to be seen. And I think you said the word seen, and that really actually hit me. I think that's what I mean by appreciate. It's like you want to be seen for exactly what you do and who you are. And the problem is in relationships, you view it from your lens. And so if you view something from your lens and you're echoing how you would feel if you were in their position, you may be either demeaning or not showing appreciation or respect to the other person because they just have a different view system, a different lens that they're looking through. And so one of the things even when I get asked, what's the number one thing for a relationship? It's like not only is it communicate, but you have to actually understand the words that you're using in that communication. And that ended up being a big thing because he was saying like, appreciate. And I'm like, well, what does that mean to you? Like, what does appreciation mean to you? Like, how does someone showcase that? Because what that means to me is gonna be very different. You may be on me flowers and all of a sudden I feel appreciated, but if I bought you flowers, not so much. So what does that look like? And so that was where we really refined, okay, this is what it means for time. Tom, but I don't want to lie if I don't appreciate it. So how do I navigate making sure that I'm able to give my husband what he needs, but always staying true in my own self back to my value system? My value system says I'm always going to speak truth even if it hurts somebody. So how can I make sure that I stick to my value system? I'm always truthful with Tom, but I'm showing him the appreciation. And so that's kind of where it came from. And so I just, anyone listening, whether you're, if you're not single and you're in actually a ask your partner, how can I show my appreciation? And if you are single, write down right now how you want to be seen, how you want to be appreciated, so that you know, so that by the time you get into a relationship, you've got the words that you can articulate to your partner in order for them to be able to show up and do it. But if you don't know and you're expecting your partner to figure it out, then it's like literally closing your eyes, have given me a dart and hoping me to hit a bullseye. like spinning me around and then hoping. It's like, well, not so much. So making sure that you're utterly clear on what that looks like, I think is really the key to it all.

I am so excited that you are releasing this paperback. I know that people are going to get so much value from it. We have talked all about relationships today, but this book, I mean, this book is a manual for people for confidence in so many areas of life. Not only does take people on a journey of what you've been through and how you've risen to this place of confidence. But, you know, I'm literally looking at the content section now and there's that your dreams are a gamble. Bet on yourself. Make up your mindset. Validation is for parking. It's. There's so much good stuff in here. I love that it can be applied to business and taking risks. I love that it can be applied to yourself in with your family, with your friendships and the way you show up there. I love that it can be applied to romantic relationships. It just, you know, to me, one of the most powerful ideas is just this idea that you can change. And it's so, so simple as to be laughable. But just for me, that concept, I'm watching my mum now. She's in her 60s and I'm seeing her make these extraordinary, subtle but profound changes in what she accepts in life, what she doesn't accept, how she shows up, the way she sees things, the way she sees herself. And it is the most inspiring thing in my life right now, is like watching the ways my mum is changing in this chapter of her and I think that's because at its essence, it just validates that idea that you can, it doesn't matter where you are in your life or what you've been through or what age you are, you can actually change. You'll never get a personality transplant that you don't need one. There are subtle changes you can make that drastically change the results that you get in your life. what I love is that this book gives people a manual for making those changes. It's a wonderful, wonderful book. I hope everyone goes and gets a copy. It's called Radical Confidence, 11 Lessons on How to Get the Relationship, Career, and Life youe Want. And it now includes a brand new chapter that is focused on leaving the wrong kind of love. and choosing yourself. Lisa, I love you. Thank you so much for being here. This is such a joy. And let us know what you think as well. Leave a comment. Let us know what spoke to you the most about this episode. Let us know what hit you the hardest. What do you take away from this? And we'll see you next time on the Love Life podcast. Be well and love life.

Thank you so much for listening, everybody. If you haven't already, at some point during the conversation, grab a copy of Lisa's book, Radical Confidence, 11 lessons on how to get the relationship, career and life you want. The link to get the book is radicalconfidence.com, so go and check that out. And thank you as always for listening to the Love Life Podcast. By the way, quick note before you go, we have our retreat coming up this year from the 9th to the 14th of September. Now, we did just release a brand new book. It has meant that my face and name has been absolutely everywhere for the last couple of weeks and the amount of demand for the retreat has gone way up. I am saying this to you, dear listener or viewer on YouTube, YouTube if you have been considering the retreat for some time and you don't want to have to wait another whole year and a half to be able to come to be with us on the retreat in Florida, now is the time to go and sign up. It is a mhretreat.com We are already two-thirds full on the program. We are getting more full all the time. It's a live event. There are a set number of seats, so once they're gone, they're gone. If you want to do the deepest work with me and my team in person for six days, then go to mHretreat.com and check it out. In the meantime, until I see you in the next episode, be well and love life.