How To Deal With The Pain Of Not Getting Closure

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And building a plan And for tomorrow, today, for the ones you'll always look out for, trust Amica Life Insurance. Amica, empathy is our best policy. Welcome back, everybody, to the Love Life podcast with me, Matthew, Audrey, Jameson, and Steven, also known as jams by this point. We wanted to bring you an episode today that talked about closure, you know, the need that we have for closure with people that were in our lives but have started to fade out or have gone completely, only we can't seem to let go of them and we feel like we need answers and we feel like we need an end to the story. And the way that the story did end was unsatisfactory to us and has left us with all of these lingering thoughts and endless rumination. So it's a bit of an episode about moving on if you're struggling to move on from someone. It's also an episode about insecurity and the kinds of insecurities that someone fading out leaves us with. It's an episode about ego and how we deal with moments in our dating lives that are crushing to our ego. And this episode might just change everything about the way you feel and give you a genuinely fresh start for the next chapter of your life. you've probably noticed that if you've ever tried to go on a binge of my content, I've been doing this for quite some time now. I mean, somewhere in the region of 15 years. And that means that if you have a particular challenge in your dating life, whether you're single and struggling to find someone you're attracted to, whether you've found someone you're attracted to, and for whatever reason it seems to have fizzled out before it really got going, or you're seeing someone long term but struggling to get to that commitment that you want, or maybe it's a different issue altogether. Well, you've probably noticed that if you try and look for the Specific answer I have for your question. There are too many videos to count and it's like going through the archives of a giant library trying to find it yourself. Well, we have a solution for all of that. If you go to yourdatingsolution.com, you can type in your name, tell our little tool which challenge you have right now in your love life, and it will recommend you the best solution I have for the stage of dating you're at and the issue that you are having. Head over to yourdatingsolution.com and you can get a tailored solution to what you're going through. Go over there now, right before we start this episode, And now, let's begin.

We have an email, gang. Ooh.

Mmm.

This email has sailed its way across the globe. A very special missive, because if you remember a couple of weeks ago, I said, Where do we get our least listeners? And I pinpointed them.

Which is a piece of data everyone's looking for when they're trying to build a podcast.

Very useful. And we looked at, you know, some of the smaller countries where they come from. We found that there was one month where we had one listener from the Democratic Republic of Congo. And lo and behold, that one listener has emailed in, Matthew.

Well, can I just say, if we are gonna have a listener from the Democratic Republic of Congo, I'm at least glad that they are a loyal listener. Not a one-time listener. Because we, I'll be honest, Steve, we can't afford to lose a listener in the Congo. Not at this rate.

Well, it depends on how they, what the email says.

Okay, yeah, that's okay. Is it a good email?

It could be. I am so done with this podcast. Let's, well, subject line, it says, Dr. Congo listener. It's me. Hey, Matthew. I laughed out loud the day the other day catching up on old episodes and hearing you all speculate about a tour in Congo based on your one subscriber. As your audience of one here, I can promise that 100% of your fans so far would be in attendance.

Love it.

I started listening after a very sudden breakup some months ago with someone I had a passionate and fast moving relationship with. One day I was the man of her life, And the next day when I had to travel some weeks for work, something didn't click, he's quoting it her words, and it was over. I've since moved back to Europe and she's still in Congo. We're both nomadic, humanitarian aid workers and building a stable relationship in our line of work is very challenging. I was ready to build our castle, to use Matt's metaphor, but she left the job site with a short text message to pursue an ex-boyfriend halfway across the world. I went no contact, but she resurfaces again and again with offers of friendship whenever I come back for work trips here in the Congo. Although I've communicated several times I can't be her friend and she should only reach out if something changes for her, she still keeps tabs on me. Anyway, I'm back in Congo now and listening to Love Life in the Gym today after she resurfaced again last week to ask for a drink while also communicating that a future for us will never be in the cards. Another day trying to learn your biggest lesson. If she didn't choose me despite the incredible chemistry, that makes her the wrong person. If you have a couple of words of encouragement, I would be grateful. Love you all. Keep up the incredible work. And that's from Loic.

I love it. And I was gonna say Loic, at one point you said you'd moved to Europe and I was terrified that our one listener in the Congo was actually no longer in the Congo.

But it's okay, he's back in the conversation.

Good to hear you're back. Well, I'm sorry, I'm sorry that you're going through that. And when you, look, it's hard enough to try to move on from somebody when we are grieving the relationship and the loss of that person in our lives, but it can feel near impossible when that person doesn't actually make it easy for us to move on. Now, I was going to say, when that person doesn't let us move on, but that would have been a trap. And it's a trap a lot of people fall into, is this idea that someone isn't letting me move on. We choose to move on. We must never ever give that power to somebody else. And there will be situations in life where it is extraordinarily difficult to move on because of the situation we're in. I'll give you an example, Loic. Do you want to hear one that's harder than what you're dealing with right now in terms of someone having someone not making it easy for them to move on? We had an email from someone who is in college who was seeing a guy really liked him. They were hitting it off, hooking up, seeing each other regularly. And at a certain point, she was monogamous with him, but he was no longer monogamous with her and had started saying, basically, I want to be able to do my thing. And so she continued to kind of see him while he was going out and having, like, one-night stands, and it would make her deeply unhappy. And eventually she said, I can't do this anymore. you know, we have to stop this because this is just making me feel awful. Well, that was fine, except they, along with a couple of other housemates, had signed a lease on a place for a year. And so he was not only living with her, but his wall was the adjoining wall to hers. And as she put it in her email, she can hear him having sex in the next room while she's trying to get over him. So, there are situations in life that make it extraordinarily difficult to move on. And one would argue, that that one is up there, aside from the fact that let's even look on the bright side of that, you weren't married to him for 10 years. It's kind of college romance. So to that extent, I'm not minimizing the pain of it, but there's a much worse situation you could have found yourself in. That being said, very, very, very, very difficult. But even in that situation, you cannot delegate to somebody else the responsibility of helping you to move on or letting you move on. You can't give that power to another person. Even in that situation at college, you could say, My mental health is more important than staying in this house, so I'm going to make it my number one mission to find someone I can sublet my room to. and I'm gonna do that. You could say, I am going to beg one of my other housemates to swap rooms with me and even offer to pay a bit more just so that I can be in a different room in this place, because I cannot be in the adjoining room with this person.

Or you throw on every time things start to get hot and heavy in that adjacent bedroom, you throw on Rick Astley. And you Rickroll them on repeat. Blare it. You leave the house and you just, you ruin their mood.

That's not bad.

I mean, also a possibility. Why Rickroll?

Get creative.

Rickroll, you ever heard, I don't know if you're still doing this, yeah, but it was like, you know, the thing to do about five years ago was to just, oh, open up this link. Somebody sent over a great song, but it wasn't a great song. It was Rick Astley.

Wait, how does the song go, Steve? Never gonna give that one.

Yeah. Yeah.

Never gonna give you up. Can't believe Audrey's never been rickrolled. Wow.

I think it's a good song.

It's good. That's probably why you've never been rickrolled, is it wouldn't work on you.

I think the song got popular.

You know, like, I, I remember, I can't remember the name of the person that sent in that email about living in the next, the room next door, but you, you really, you have Options. We tell ourselves like, I'm stuck in this situation, but there's always options and there's always ways. And by the way, you could also, if let's say for whatever reason, she absolutely cannot leave this room. And in the email, she didn't say that. She said, I really love this room, right? Like, I really don't want to move room. I really like my room. I've got it set up the way I want it and so on. Even if you could not leave that room, then you can still stay to your, you can, you can tell yourself a different story. Like, hey, I don't have to, unlike other people who are going, Are they off thinking about me? Could something still happen? Who knows? You don't have that problem. You can be like, They're literally with someone in the next room. I am going to move on with my life. I am not this. What could be more of a visceral, in-my-face representation of the fact that this is the wrong person for me, then I can hear them in the next room with somebody else. This, you could argue that one thing it gives you is you are robbed of the fantasy of the fact that it might still be something or that this person is this incredible person that you've made them out to be. So, and in the case of Loic in Congo, I would say, you don't have someone in the next door room. You're allowing someone to reach out to you because you either still have them on your social media or because you haven't told them, hey, no, stop texting me. I am moving on and you've made it quite clear that you want me to move on. So that's exactly what I'm going to do. And I. I don't want you to be texting me anymore. that's how to stop someone. And if you're not saying that, then you have to ask yourself, Loic, why am I still holding on? Because that's a, that's a version of still holding on is not telling someone that because you're hoping that it might lead somewhere. Your job is to take ownership of your own breakup and you're moving on. And you do that by setting boundaries now in the wake of the breakup. As I said, I'm sorry you're going through this, but the sooner you actually break ties with this person, the sooner you can move on and find something else that is going to make this less and less relevant in your life. Well, Audrey and I just got back from Las Vegas.

Yep.

Here we go.

Gone.

Did you sneak off and do the marriage quickly? Is that what's happened? You know what happened in my head? Like, as soon as you said, We.

Snuck off to Vegas and there's that pause, I just immediately imagined Viva Las Vegas, but like Guy Ritchie did that. Was that Snatch? Oh, yeah. In the movie Snatch, every time anyone mentioned gambling or something, it just cut to Viva Las Vegas.

Well, we would do that in this podcast, were we to be able to.

Afford the rights to that. Thomas, if you can just find a sort of copyright-free version of that, maybe Steve, you just sing one right now and then we just put that in.

Or just take the one Jameson did and we'll just loop that.

Viva Las Vegas. Viva Las Vegas. I'll just keep doing it live, that way it's just easier for you, Thomas, never mind.

Well, Steve, I posted a picture of me and Audrey on that trip in a really lovely moment. We'd just walked into the hotel and there was this beautiful sort of garden inside the hotel, you know, very over-the-top Vegas style. And posted this lovely romantic picture of me and Audrey. One of the first DMs that came back, someone said, She tried and you didn't.

And I'm sorry about that DM, but it was necessary. It was from my burner account, but it just seemed...

I'm sorry, you cut out for a second. She said what?

She tried. And you didn't... Oh, right. Saying, look how beautifully she got dressed up. And you standing next to her look like garbage.

No, babe, you didn't look like garbage. I think it's because you wore trainers and I wore heels.

Did Matt have like, A pizza-stained white T-shirt, sort of scratching his belly, scratching his belly, shorts pulled down.

You know him well.

Scratching his girdle on his belly.

Was not wearing a girdle. I had to get ready in the middle of a work day. We left on Thursday evening, and I, Audrey said to me, We should pack the night before. And I was too tired, and I said, Look, we'll just pack tomorrow. Let's just pack, you know, find 30 minutes between meetings. And she got to say, I told you so, because it was a disaster and I was just throwing stuff in a case.

But I didn't say I told you so. You didn't, you didn't.

But you did just give me a look right now, as if to say I told you so. But they, I would have packed like a suit or something. I would have packed something good, 'cause Vegas is the one place you can get away with anything. You really can. In LA, you almost, unless you're winning an Oscar, there's essentially no opportunities to put a suit on.

But, yeah, Vegas, Vegas, you can go total slob or you can dress to the nines in a tuxedo and it's all fair game.

Either way, no one is gonna judge you. No.

Apart from that woman on Instagram.

Right, and I sort of felt bad, 'cause I felt like, you know what? I should have packed, like, a nice suit or something. And I just ran out of time packing. So, and I did, you know, you did, you outdid me. You looked wonderful in your emerald green shiny dress. And there I was, looking like I was a crew member on a TV shoot.

Or a wealthy tech billionaire.

Which only works, I think, if you're a wealthy tech billionaire.

I see.

I don't think it works if you're just me. So apologies out there to those of you that were offended. I will do better next time or we'll just dress Audrey down.

No, we're not dressing me down. Not dressing me down. I looked great, so we're still keeping me exactly as I was.

Now, Melissa has left a review on iTunes, which I thought I'd read or. You know, again, this is a review that has started with Because Matthew Told Me To.

So... It's quite a few of those. I wonder why that is.

Well, I just, listen, you don't have to start with Because youe Told Me To.

So not only are you gonna make them review, you're not gonna dictate what they should be saying in there.

I wish I had the power to make someone review. Lord knows we'd have thousands a day if I had that power. But here he goes again. All I'm doing is asking for people to go and review the podcast and, you know, people starting the review with, Because youe Told Me To. Just tell us. So, Melissa from Australia.

Keeping in the flar-flung theme, I pulled this one from iTunes Australia to mix it up a bit.

Oh, of course, because there's different ones for different regions. Oh, it's opened up the world to me, Steve. go round the world reading reviews. Well, she says, I thought I'd leave a review as Matthew has become has been begging for it for quite a few episodes now. Unbelievable. I've listened to this podcast and followed Matthew's advice on all socials and YouTube for years. I love the banter between you guys. It's a really easy and informative podcast to listen to while relaxing with a nice big cup of hot coffee or cocoa. Keep up the great work, guys. Sending love from Australia. I suppose that's sort of also a reference to the time that it would come out for her. It's probably either the end of the night, hence the cocoa, or at 5 a.m., hence the coffee.

Because we all know that people often just wake up to listen to the podcast right when it gets released.

You say that, but there's actually one of our listeners said on the emails said, I wake up early just so that I can squeeze in your podcast in the morning.

I do that with one of my podcasts. I listen to it the day it comes out because I love it so much.

Wow. My sarcasm stands humbled and corrected.

Well, thank you, Melissa. And I won't, I'm not gonna say if you'd like to go and leave a review at iTunes, it would mean the world to us, and we absolutely do read every one of them.

I think you just said it.

No, I won't. I'm not gonna ask this time. I'm not gonna say that it actually is one of the more meaningful things you can do once you've listened to this podcast is to go there and tell us how you feel about it. I won't. I won't do it again because it hurts too much. When people mock me for it.

I think you've shown a lot of restraint.

Thanks Jay. We have a voice note here. I have put out the word that we would love some voice notes from people in the emails podcast@matthewhussie.com We of course have said for the last couple of weeks, if you leave us a short voice note, we might actually play it on the podcast and we've been listening to all of them. If you send it, we generally listen to it. The only ones that we haven't listened to, and I'll be honest here, is if you send us one that's really lengthy, and there have been a few of those. So I'll just give a little tip. If you keep it under 30 seconds, it's much more likely that we will have the opportunity to listen to it and play it. But there are, of course, there are some one to two minute ones that have we've listened to. And even, I think there's even a two minute one that we're playing today. It might even be this one.

I think it's this one.

Very good. So this is Mary, but. In future, you might not be as lucky as Mary if it's two minutes long. Try to keep it to 30 seconds, at least under 60.

You're very managerial today.

Am I? Yeah. Do you like it?

I like it. I don't know why I said today as if you're not like that every single day. From the moment you wake up to the moment you go to sleep.

Okay, well, I'll- and- you-'re still with me. So you do like it.

So here is Mary's voice note.

Hi Matthew and team. I wanted to take a moment to thank you so much for the content on your podcasts and in the Love Life Club. I had a very challenging breakup where my ex basically changed his mind about getting married and about having children. It totally reversed the course that we had been set upon for many, many years. And I had no roadmap for how to heal from it or where to go from there. The content on your podcasts and in your Love Life Club provided me with the roadmap that I needed to heal, recover, reimagine my life, embrace my authentic interests, better understand myself. And I really went on a journey for six months delving into your contents and using it as a guide for me to recover and also for me to thrive, not just survive, but actually thrive in the next chapter of my life. I'm so grateful to you and your team the content that you have is applicable in so many contexts, even beyond love. It relates to so many disappointments and losses. It really transcends the romantic situations that might initially bring us all to your content to begin with. And it's very applicable to other parts of life. So thank you so very much. for all the time that you dedicate to this and this is really a huge contribution to the world. And it hugely contributed to my life because it enabled me to recover from my situation within six months, put myself back out there, embrace my interests, delve into new adventures, and become excited about life. And a couple of a few months after, it was probably about seven, eight months after my breakup overall, it actually led me to find love again because I was living my authentic life and absolutely in love with my life. So I'm super grateful in my personal life, I've benefited from your content immensely. And please just keep doing what you're doing because you're contributing an enormous amount to the world.

I absolutely love that. I honestly, when I first heard this review, it actually brought a bit of a tear to my eye. You were next to me, so you know this. It brought a bit of a tear to my eye because I just think what an absolute, you know, having your world turned upside down like that and the way that she's been able to bounce back for. I don't know. I just think it's really beautiful. Also, she has the most amazing voice, don't you think? She'd be such a good broadcaster. She's so articulate and just has a beautiful voice. Thank you so much for that voice note, Mary. I loved it so much and I'm so glad that you've met someone and have found love again. It's such a big compliment.

I couldn't agree more. And thank you for seeing us as well, because the comment you made about this podcast transcending dating and love advice is exactly what we have been doing and sowing the seeds for for 15 years. The love advice is just a way in, as we've always seen it. But everything else people get from it that is applicable everywhere in their lives and even just to themselves in their own company is one of the fundamental reasons that we do this. So thank you for acknowledging and seeing us. for who we are as well. We wanted to do, as a main topic today, the idea of closure and why it is that we seek closure to the extent that we do. Why we have such trouble moving on from certain people And the surprising difficulty of moving on from someone that we started to like, but who either ghosted us, did the slow fade, or simply met somebody else. And why it can be so hard to move on from someone that we never really even had a committed relationship with in the first place. What makes us look for closure? And is it really the smart thing to do to spend our time looking for closure instead of moving on? And as you're listening to this, and we kind of discussed this, I want you to ask yourself the question, is there someone in my life that I am giving still a disproportionate amount of mental and emotional energy to? even though they're no longer in my life. Because I hope that what we do here today, this discussion, will help you finally make some peace and move on so that you can find something better. Because it's really hard to do that when we're stuck in a loop of rumination. about somebody who's not in our lives and not meeting our needs. They're not even in our lives anymore.

I just noticed so much in our emails, in correspondence we've got all through the years, how much people are desperate for, like, a magic bullet answer. Like, if I just understood what happened or what changed or I don't get why this person faded out. And I guess my issue with it is how much. Why? Why do we make this such a big deal, such a big part of what we need? Like, life does not give us satisfying Solutions, closure, like a movie. Life does not close every loop for us. We don't get a finality to every story, to every friendship, to every missed opportunity. But people find it so hard to not have that in the scenario of getting flaked on.

Jameson, do you think that people look for closure from a practical point of view? Like they're actually trying to kind of do better next time, or they're actually trying to learn something and improve what they do? Or do you think that it's much less kind of utilitarian than that? You just think it's like scratching a wound?

I think it's deeply emotional. It's not, I don't think it's practical almost ever, really. I mean, maybe sometimes it will accidentally be a sorry practical because someone will accidentally say something and like, oh, wait, what? You mean I have bad breath? And then they will end up being shamed into brushing their teeth more. But I think it's almost invariably people, you have a deep-seated need for a sort of satisfaction of like the story needs to have a tidy end to it. And I think that's probably deep-seated in our genes. And I think culturally it's just we figure that out with like TV shows, movies and stories. We need satisfaction. Even when you plan out the perfect satisfaction, like the The ending to Game of Thrones, still not quite satisfied, are we? It's like a, it's this deep-seated root. We'll never be satisfied because, I don't know, we just need that perfect bow on everything.

I think that's a really interesting perspective. We are, you know, there's an idea in, A lot of magazines, for example, will use the idea of the open loop in their copy. So Cosmopolitan on the front of Cosmopolitan will be an open loop. It will be a headline that's designed to make you need to know what that thing is. You know, the three things no one ever told you about great hair. And you feel like you must turn to page 73 to know what those three things are. We have this inherent need to close a loop. And so I do think that that plays into it, James and I, I think that's a huge thing. I also think there may be this added, almost this visceral, almost biological kind of desire for survival that makes us go, if someone rejected us, what, you know, why? Like, what, what was that? So I remember in the movie Alfie, the new, the new Alfie, not the Michael Caine version, but where, well, actually, Stephen, maybe you can tell me if this is in the Michael Caine version. I'm not sure. But Jude Law says to, I think it's Susan Sarandon. He says, and now of course he's been seeing her as a kind of fun romantic fling. And all of a sudden she's not giving him attention and she stopped calling. And she's an older woman.

But he decides he wants to pursue her seriously.

Right. And he learns that she has started seeing somebody else. And he says to her, why? Like, what does he have that I don't? And she says, he's younger. And it's funny because there's this for him, it almost feels like the desperation in his voice. There's like a survival mechanism there that's like half terrified because it's our insecurity. That's, well, what is it? Is it the thing I'm most afraid of? That is the reason you don't want me. And if it is that thing, does that confirm the fact that I'm never going to be truly lovable or that I'm, I'm never going to find anyone or I'm always going to be alone. But I do think there is a kind of survival instinct and that's in his voice when he says that, what is it I need to know? What does he have that I don't? And of course, she says he's younger, which is an incredibly cutting remark that he hears when he's used to being the person that other people, you know, Women normally leave other men to be with me. And all of a sudden, I'm the man who's not, who's being left on the sideline for a younger man. It's his, one of his worst fears. But so, and that kind of brings up to me the duality in a way between our survival instincts, kind of says, I need to know. But then, is knowing better. Yeah. Because in that case, he can't do anything about the fact that someone is younger than him. So it's not, it's almost not useful information to him other than as some kind of reality check, I suppose, that we're all getting older and none of us can win that battle for life. But it's sort of redundant information. And so I think we all have to kind of weigh up sometimes My desire to know is on some level, as Jamison said, a desire to complete the story I need to know. And in another sense, I think it combines with this desire for survival. And therefore, I must know, am I truly unlovable or am I going to get out of this thing alive? Am I going to meet someone? Am I going to find what I'm looking for? But is the answer something that's worth having? Or is it just something that is going to hurt my self-esteem for no reason at all? And that's tricky. That's a tricky question because there may be certain things that are useful to hear. If we've been walking around, as Jameson said with bad breath our whole life, and someone finally gives us the level of honesty of saying, hey, you should really look into this. Because it was enough to, as we've talked about in previous episodes, give me the ick. You know, it was enough to turn me off viscerally. So you should really get that checked out. That's something that's actually worth knowing, because that might be hurting us in every situation we go into. But if someone says, you, nose is too big, then you may say, well, this is not helpful. What do I do with that information?

I also think there's a third reason why people try and seek answers and explanation, and it's because the reality is hurtful, and so they're looking for a kind of alternative reason. So hearing, I just feel like, you know, I don't like you enough or I don't feel for you what I would like to feel for you or I think I could get someone better or whatever it is. These are all the kinds of reasons why people leave all the time, every day. But they are the kinds of reasons we don't want to hear about ourselves. So sometimes when we look for a deeper reason, it's to almost safeguard our ego into thinking it's because that person just didn't like us enough because that's such a brutal reality. And it's a reality which exists for everyone. So it's not something that we should actually feel that offended over. It just means that person wasn't the right person for you. You know, we're perfect. We're all just as capable of feeling that way about somebody else as they are about us. But I think sometimes You know, the action of someone walking away and saying, actually, not for me. Majority of the time, it's probably just because they didn't feel whatever it was they wanted to feel with this situation. But we find that to be such a jarring and difficult explanation, I think. So people try and dig further and further to go, Is there something more?

You're saying it's a hope for them to say, well, really, I'm just very afraid of commitment. And that's why I said I didn't like you that much. Exactly. Because deep down, I'm just afraid. And then you go, oh, okay, that makes sense. And that's not about me. That can be fixed.

You just have to look at the pattern of kind of, and we know we all do this. So this is just, I think this is just such a human reaction. But you just have to look at the pattern of, we always give reasons that aren't to do with us as to why people leave. We don't go, you know, I wasn't this enough. They didn't like me enough. We go, you know, they were avoidance. They were too focused on their job. They were to this. They were to that. And I think that's just, again, it's very, very human. I think we do it because it's such a horrible thing to have to think that somehow along the way, what the best that we had to offer wasn't enough for someone.

But that, to me, would suggest that you wouldn't look for closure. If you were quite satisfied to make up your own story about why they left that had nothing to do with you or anything you'd done wrong, you wouldn't even look for closure, right? Because you'd know that closure could ruin that story for you if you heard something you didn't want to hear.

I don't think it's all that conscious. I think it's more that we don't want to reach for It's Occam's razor. You know, the kind of the most probable explanation is the right one. It's the right one. And when somebody leaves, unless there's a really glaring thing, it's probably just because they're not feeling it, right? But that's a really horrible thing to say. People don't want to say that about themselves. People don't want to say, this person left me because they didn't love me anymore or because they didn't like me enough. So I think that people just dig further to try and find something that stands outside of themselves and doesn't make them feel, you know, like it. Like it's so personal.

I understand if we're in a long relationship, obviously, if someone just books and leaves with no explanation, obviously, that is very traumatic and, you know, can leave you completely confused and scarred. But. But we. People also talk about closure from things that were quite short term, and it's like. Do you wanna, if someone flakes after, say, a couple of dates, do you, you know, if that's happened to me before, which it has, it's happened to lots of people, and you don't have to cry tears for me because I've had successful ones as well, so it's all good. But I've had people that have flaked after a couple of dates or from, like, Tinder or whatever. And, and my thing is always, well, I don't need to hear, I assume I'm not some people's cup of tea. I don't need to hear every reason I'm not different people's cup of tea, or something about us wasn't compatible, or there was something about the way we vibed on date that they weren't feeling, or physical stuff, whatever. It's like, I don't, I don't really bothered about every reason why that is. I just assume some people, it won't feel like that with and and yes, it sucks when you feel like, oh, they were nice or that was fun or that was cool. They were. They're cool. And then they reject you. That's worse. And that happens. And that's why people think like, what the hell? I thought we had a good time. That does suck. But I also kind of am like, well, if they're not feeling it enough to want to pursue another date, then I've kind of you kind of got your answer. Like, it's kind of like, If they're not moved enough to want to text you back after that or whatever, it's kind of like, well, clearly they're not feeling it enough anyway, and I don't need a written explanation as to what happened. Like, I'm interested in the people who do get it and like what I have to offer. I don't worry about all the people who don't.

I agree with that. But I feel like there's a bit of an elephant in the room when it comes to this subject.

Because.

On one hand, it's like.

You.

Have the school of thought that is, if you don't like what I have to offer, then fine, I'll find someone who does. And that, on one hand, can be an incredibly confident mindset, but it can also, at its extreme, be a mindset that keeps us very rigid. in our own kind of growth.

Sure.

The other side of the spectrum, the other school of thought is I always want to hear feedback because I always want to be better or do better, which could be seen as a very confident mindset or at the extreme, it can be a people-pleasing chameleonizing mindset, which is always about morphing yourself to whatever anyone else wants and never about actually just being yourself. So in other words, both sides have a dark side and a light side. And we. We kind of exist. This podcast, our work, the things we've created over the years, the programs exist because We believe in improving ourselves in the ways that we can improve ourselves, whether it's improving our confidence, which is a kind of inner game mindset, or whether it's improving our competence, the ability to be interesting in conversation, the ability to be fun on a date, the ability to use the kinds of conversation and techniques that actually connect with someone, the ability to argue well and productively with another person in a relationship. These are competence based. And so I can imagine someone saying, all of this is great, and it's great for me to go through my life saying, like me for what I have or don't. It makes no difference to me. I'm just going to find someone who likes what I have. But if someone has gone through their life feeling like that's not worked out for them, and there does seem to be something that is either pushing people away or turning people off or not allowing people to see how great they are, they want to know what that thing is. I'm not saying everyone who looks for closure is in this mindset, of course. I think a lot of people looking for closure just want to be angry. They just want to be mad at someone who didn't want them. But there will be people who in earnest are just saying, I'm trying to find out what's going wrong. And I feel like dating is this interesting area where it's hard to do that. You know, you can in business if you're a salesperson who does phone sales for a living, you can say to someone, listen in on my call. You're super experienced, you're a pro at this. Listen in on my call and tell me what's going wrong. And someone can dissect your pitch and dissect the way you're coming across and dissect the questions you're asking and say, well, you're coming across a little too desperate, or you're being too pushy, or you're not actually it's showing enough excitement about the product or there's all sorts of things people can do in our dating lives. It's actually a lot harder for someone to get true perspective on what's going wrong. You can't you in other words, you don't typically go on dates with your friends. So however you tell your friends the date went or however you report the date is just your lens of the date. But typically your friends aren't on the date with you. So even your best friends can't tell you what went wrong on a date. Even when people come to us and tell us what's happening in their love lives, the truth when you really get behind it and you ask the right questions is very different from what they think is going wrong. So how do you think that you solve the problem of, of getting useful closure in our love lives when we actually want to stop ourselves making the same mistakes over and over again. What's up, everybody? We'll be back to the episode in just a moment. I just wanted to let you know that the thing that I talk about here in the episode about being able to self-diagnose where our blind spots are and what might be a pattern that's tripping us up in our love lives. We have something that can really help you with that, and it is our Love Life Membership. The people that are members are not just watching one of our programs, they're actually involved in live coaching every month. And whether you're one of the people that I coach on one of our live webinars, or whether you're somebody who's watching somebody else get coached, either way, you are getting insight into the patterns that mean people don't get the results they deserve in their love life. That's what real coaching is for, is to help us diagnose where we might be tripping up and what we can do differently. This is real coaching. This is not watching a video on YouTube. It's actually joining us as part of a process month by month so that you can watch your love life improve in real time, as well as your confidence and your love for life. So come join us AskMH.com, that's A-S-K-M-H.com, where you can join for a seven-day free trial to the Love Life membership. Try it all out, watch some videos, join a couple of live sessions with me or my brother Stephen, and see how it feels to be making that progress. And if you don't love it, you can hop off at any time. That's AskMH.com. .com so how do you think that you solve the problem of getting useful closure in our love lives when we actually want to stop ourselves making the same mistakes over and over again?

If you can get a practical answer in one sentence that might help you improve your dating life, that's fine. But if you find yourself just ruminating paragraphs upon paragraphs, of what could have gone wrong is probably not helpful anymore.

I once, my friend once went on a date and she said to me that she didn't want, I think it was, it must have been this way around because I don't think she would have done it. She didn't want to see him again and he text her, it was after one date, so, you know, pretty early days, but he sent her a message saying, no worries at all. But I am wondering if you could give me some feedback as to what I did wrong that made you not wanna go on a second date with me?

Very brave question.

Very brave. I really, she kind of thought it was a bit weird 'cause she said like, you know, how clinical and kind of, you know, a little bit, I don't know, she found it bizarre. But I kind of thought it was quite confident, bold, and I admired it actually. So I think, He asked her that? He asked her that. I think, yeah, I think it was that way. It was definitely that way, man.

Did she give him an answer?

That I can't remember.

Text her right now on air and let's get some good pod.

Well, my friends are all asleep in England, so.

Well, I think that's it, isn't it? We, if we were brave enough to kind of push a button and someone give us the honest truth, we would hear some helpful things and some unhelpful things.

And also, I also think we sometimes need to hear the most hurtful reason in order to move on. Sometimes what keeps us stuck is actually imagining that there is a bigger reason than the one that's right in front of us. And sometimes I think someone's saying to us, you know, I just don't want to be with you. I'm just not interested. It in the moment, it's really helpful. It's really hurtful. But I think in terms of moving forward, where do you go from there, right?

You just go, oh, that's not even the most hurt. You were even then, you went really easy with it.

Well, you wouldn't want, I mean, yeah, you wouldn't want to hear something that was personal and, you know, an attack to your character. But if it's...

I'm just running that. I almost want to run that thought experiment all the way through because I wonder if what you're saying contains.

A.

Real grain of truth where if we heard our worst fear articulated, that it gives us a real shot at kind of just being done with it in a way. It's, you know, I'm imagining like for a guy, A guy wants to know, like, why? And what, for a lot of guys, is gonna be the worst thing she could say?

You have too many freckles. Were you not going there? Were you going someplace else?

I wasn't gonna go down that specific line of thought.

Are you gonna go to...

I'm glad that you went, obviously, with that hypothetical.

I was trying to keep this a family podcast. I knew where you were going.

Well, I mean, are you going to bedroom insecurities, mafia?

Well, you could easily go there. There's easily a case to be made for that would be the worst thing that you could say to a guy.

You're not strong enough.

Height, like height. You're too. You're just too short. I don't. It's. I find it unattractive. And I'm worried that the way we look when we walk around together, that you're too short. And I think that my friends also think you're too short. And that makes me think about. them thinking that you're not good enough or that you're not that attractive and their thoughts and opinions mean something to me as well. And so that just really bothers me.

Oh my God, I feel like I feel heartbroken for this person.

Well, I'm glad that you're doing this thought experiment though, because it's just like as you're saying it, I don't know where you're even ending up on this, but I just, I'm thinking of when this could be helpful to people and I just think the percentages are so minuscule that I'm just, I'm in much more Stevens camp, I think, here, where it's just, you're looking for satisfaction, watch yourself look for satisfaction, and realize that that is just a waste.

But it's really, it's sort of interesting to, I, this thought experiment is interesting to me because it, go on, Audrey, I'll let you jump in before I, before I keep going because you seem like you really want to say something.

Well, no, I, I, it was kind of the point I was trying to make is, I think if you can change it, if it's something that you can actually improve upon, then I think it is helpful. Or if it's something that is just a fact of life, such as, I don't love you anymore, or I just don't like you enough, or I don't feel what I would like to feel at this point. I don't feel the connection. That's hurtful. But it's not. It doesn't feel personal, and it's not something that you can't change. that's a direct attack on your character, on yourself as a person. I think if it's something like you're too short, what the hell are you gonna do with that information?

But what are you gonna do with I'm not, I'm just not as into you as I want to be? What if someone said to you, well, tell me what would help and I'll change it?

No, but I think if someone says, I'm just not, I'm just not feeling what I would like to be feeling in this moment, you just go, this isn't my person.

But what's my fear is then, what someone's fear is in that scenario is if someone said that to you after two years, someone's then like, well, if I. What if I get another boyfriend? And after two years, he just says that. And what. What if he just out of the blue decides he doesn't fancy me anymore? You know what I mean? Like that. But what if you can't. You're not gonna get a map of someone's exact blueprint of feelings and go, okay, if next time I take this other path, then. Then that's gonna help me with this. I I don't know how. much it's going to help you.

I I actually, weirdly, I'm in two minds about it, because on some level, I'm just like knowing. Knowing the reasons someone may reject you just makes you more sure of what you're looking for, which is someone who accepts you, someone who. Who actually doesn't care about that thing or someone who loves you for that thing.

I think it's just traumatizing, is what I think. I think it would just be so painful.

Here's where I agree with you, Audrey, because they kind of fall into two categories. They can either be something that you already feared and had to kind of, maybe at some point in your life, you had to grow to become indifferent to that thing you didn't like about yourself or that physical feature, or you maybe you went even one step further and you kind of learned to like it or even love it. And then someone points out the exact thing that you used to hate, and that can run the risk of setting you back. Or if you've never really made peace with it, then it just aggravates something that's already there. The other category is when someone says something that you hadn't thought about you know, like, if someone notices you're going bald before you did, you know what I mean? I always think the first step of an insecurity is someone says something once that you've never heard before. And this first time you hear it, you go, well, that's weird. Like, I don't. I don't think that about myself, or I never thought that was something that wasn't attractive. on my body or my face or about me. And then if someone says it a second time, you go, wait a minute. What? What is this? That. Is this a thing? And then someone says it a third time or someone else says it and you go, oh, my God, I hate this thing about myself. You know, the first time it's just surprising, but said enough times, you start to then adopt it as an actual complex as a stigma, as a complex, I should say.

And to your point, Matt, the personality things come less frequently, but occasionally we might get some honest feedback where, you know, if you have a pattern of something, someone might say, oh, do you know what? You come across as, like, super aggressive, like, you know, someone will give you something, some bit of feedback, or we'll hear from people who say, I've been on all these dates and then someone, some guys tell me they only see me as a friend or they don't look at me in a sexual way or something. That's where I will agree some parts of feedback might be a kernel of something useful whereby knowing the fact that no one sees you as more than a friend or no one sees you as a sexual person or something might go, oh, there's a vibe I'm putting out here. that isn't getting me attraction and there's a pattern, or people find me super aggressive and I end up in debates and arguments on my dates instead of ever actually having good dates and connecting. Some bit of feedback or a pattern there might be a useful opening for growth.

This is why I know I'm harping on about this, but I do kind of think we're arriving somewhere. Because If you hear everything there is to hear about yourself, like at first it's just fear, right? We go through life terrified of hearing something we won't be able to bear, that we won't be able to tolerate. And what's funny about looking for closure is that we're like walking into a room that we don't actually want to be in and looking for answers that we don't actually want, but it's like we can't, we're like a moth to a flame. It's no different to knowing that your partner cheated on you and then asking for very, very specific details about what they were doing. And it's not...

It's like someone says to you in a room, Do you know what? She told me something she thinks about you. You couldn't not say it. You couldn't not ask what it is, even if she's a stranger. She told me something she thinks she's thinking about you.

And it becomes a form of self-harm almost. We're just looking to scratch an itch. I think of it that way. I actually think that's a very apt analogY for it is you get bitten by a mosquito. You know that it's not good to scratch it, but it's itching and you can't help it. And I think that to me is sort of akin to the way that we look for closure on certain things or the way that we pick at things that are only going to make us feel worse. And I think at a certain point, you have to just say, that's that. And hearing it might be an opportunity for me to say, that's just that. Like if someone says something to you that you fear the most, you have the opportunity to just say, oh, that's just what it is. And I said something to Audrey Jameson at the airport when we were coming back from Vegas, because when we were coming back, the video that we did, which was a review of our old video, who Should Pay on a Date, came out. But what was interesting is in the comments, some people, there were women who were saying, this is, you know, you're still not taking into account these things for women and you don't get it. There were men who were angry in the complete opposite direction. who were saying, why did you pull back from your original vid? Not that I don't even think we did pull back, but they were just mad that we didn't sound as mad. And they were like, you know, I don't know why, you know, the original you on stage was unfiltered and this is like a kind of sanitized version of the video. Which I understand what they were saying, but that was never our intention. It was just done with a different tone. But the feeling I got when I read all those comments, and it's not a new feeling, obviously we've been making videos for a long time, but it was a really important reminder. I just looked at Audrey and I just said, you, really have to just go in and say whatever you feel is true and be bold about saying whatever you feel is true. and being whoever you are and leaning into that. Because no matter what, it's never gonna be enough. It's never going to be enough for the people that think I'm not standing up enough for women. It's never going to be enough for men who think that I'm not standing up enough for men. It's always, every video we do is going to fall short of something for someone. But I think I just had yet another wake-up call in life where I just went, you know what? I'm really just going to make videos that I think are great and true to the best of my ability every time I do it. I'm not, whatever is still in me that is going, oh, but we should be careful because this might, this one person might think this or this other person might think that or whatever. Just enough. Enough. I'm, I just want to make videos that I think are great and saying something important, and it's not going to account for everybody. It's just gonna be, I, I'm gonna know what I mean, and I'm gonna do my best to say that. and then we'll move on to the next video. And if I get something wrong, I'll correct it. If I keep hearing a piece of feedback that I think is actually true and I need to actually adjust course, then I'll adjust course. But that is the best I can do. And I think that you could apply the same approach to dating where you say, I'm not gonna ignore everything people are saying to me. 'Cause that's kind of a form of arrogance and ignorance and fear, which is just, I'm never gonna, I'm not gonna give myself the capability of evolving. That, I don't think, is a good stance to take. And if you keep hearing something over and over again, or getting the same feeling over and over again, then it's worth assessing what's happening. But you should also go on every date just going, I'm gonna be the best version of me that exists and lean into how I feel about things or lean into what excites me, lean into the things that make me me. I'm gonna do that in the wider macro, in the wider context of continuing to try and improve myself. But in the moment I'm just gonna be the me-est me. The best me, but the me-est me, right?

And.

That'S gonna be enough for today. It may not be enough for tomorrow because tomorrow I might wanna improve something about myself, but it's gonna be enough for today.

And what about, what would you say to people who are still looking for the reason why? somebody left or somebody didn't want them and they can't seem to be able to move on until they have that piece of information. What about to those people? Because I think that that's really...

Apply it forward thinking, not backward thinking. So, in other words, it's worth asking the question. Could I be doing anything better? That's a question worth asking. I don't want to be with someone who doesn't ask that question of themselves ever. Like that's a, that's a, that's not a, that's not someone with a growth mindset. But I think you have to apply it in a forward thinking way. So that would be, you could be brave enough to say to someone, Hey, as awkward a question as this is, and I have broad enough shoulders to hear the truth, is there anything that made you feel this way? because I want to be better in my life. And I'd love to be aware if there's something I did that caused this. And so you could be brave enough to ask that question. But I also think that when people get one of our programs and they read all about the attraction formula, what that gives you that I think is very useful is there are four components to deep and lasting attraction. So there's visual chemistry, there's perceived value, perceived challenge, and connection. And when you look into each of those four things and what they mean and how you do them, I think what it does is it gives people a model to go, which part of these am I not doing a great job of? So, maybe I'm creating a ton of value that would be perceived value. Maybe I'm showing an insane amount of value in the way that I treat someone by doing things for them, by having great conversation, by being generous, by being thoughtful, by adding to their life. But I'm doing a really bad job of creating any perceived challenge because I'm not showing someone that there's any real price to pay for all of that value. I'm giving it from a people-pleasing mindset. And so despite the fact that I'm giving a ton of value, this person is taking that value for granted because it doesn't come at any cost. Even if they treat me poorly, even if they don't invest in me, even if they go hot and cold, I'm still at a moment's notice willing to give them all that value. so I think that someone can look at that and go, oh, that's what's happening is I'm not actually challenging this person. Or they might see that I'm adding a ton of value, but I'm not really connecting with this person. So all the value I'm giving is value that I'm used to giving, but it's not based on anything I really know about this person because I'm not asking the right questions to get to know this person. So this person doesn't feel like I uniquely see them or understand them. this person just feels like I'm a kind of generic people pleaser. So I'm giving a lot of value, but I'm not connecting in a way that makes that person feel seen or understood by me. And we all wanna be with someone who sees and understands us. My point is that you can apply the attraction formula. And by the way, the Get the Guy book, if you wanna order a copy of that book on Amazon, I'm not even saying this from the point of view of plugging these things. I literally am just trying to think where, if someone wants to learn more about any of these things, what's the best place for them to go? But the book is a good introduction, the Get the Guy book. But my point with all of this is that's one approach is asking someone. Another approach is going to someone like us who has a model and saying, which part of the model do I intuitively feel like I'm not doing a great job of compared to other parts? And I think people are actually surprisingly good at self-diagnosing. once they have a model to work off of. Like, a lot of people are pretty good at being like, oh, yeah, if I'm honest, I'm not creating enough chemistry because I'm not really flirting. You know, I I'm adding a lot of value to someone's life in all of the things I do, but. And I'm connecting because I'm having lots and lots of really deep conversations with them, but I'm not creating chemistry because I'm not really flirting and creating any tension. with the person. So I think a lot of people are good at diagnosing those things. But what I'm at the heart of everything I'm saying is that that is a forward-looking approach. In other words, if going back to the YouTube thing, I shouldn't sit there and read all of the comments on a video from two weeks ago and lament what I wish I'd done differently. in that video. Instead, you have to say, I'm going to be forward-facing in what do I want to bring to the next person? Or even if it's with the same person, forget. What did I do wrong? What did I do wrong? It's just, what do I want to bring that's different to the next interaction with that person? Either because I've had a conversation with them and they've let me know something that I did that that wasn't great or something they didn't see enough of. And I want to give more of that in the next interaction with them or because I've done one of Matthew's programs and I'm now starting to realize there was something I didn't do. But I'm gonna just. I'm. I'm gonna bring that to the next interaction I have with that person. And if it's too late and that person's already decided that they're not interested, part of our obsession with closure with that person. and wanting to revive it is that we've convinced ourselves that there is only that person. And that's just not the case. That's just not true. They are not the only person on earth that could make you happy. You did not find the only attractive person that exists. You didn't find the only person on earth that will find you attractive. There are more of them. And you can apply all of these learnings that you're getting. to the next person. And I really would encourage someone. This is where I will kind of be heavy-handed with this. One of the bravest things you can do is invest in what we have because you do not then have to scratch your head trying to think of the answer and trying to just kind of search around in the dark for what might be going wrong. You actually can come and take our programs and learn more about what's happening here. Why am I in a certain pattern constantly? And we've spent 15 years with those patterns. So, what might take you years to self-diagnose, for us is just like, oh, this is what's happening. This is what's happening. And if you learn about this, it's going to make a difference.

We are often better at self diagnosing or being harsh to ourselves, right? So a lot of these things aren't gonna be surprising when you go out looking for satisfaction from somebody else. And oftentimes, let's say someone was brave enough to go ahead and ask that question to somebody like, well, is there anything, any pointers you can give? I think they're most likely gonna give something like you said, Audrey, where it's just like, I just wasn't really feeling it. Like I wasn't feeling the sexual connection or whatever. Okay, so you got that from them. But what do you actually do? I mean, this is why I think it's just a lost cause to do this. I think that is not the route I would give any of my close friends to do. I wouldn't say like, go ask this person and see if you can get an honest answer from them. I'd say, go watch a Matthew video. Go buy his book.

And be honest with yourself as you're reading and listening about what it's getting at that you might actually be guilty of.

Exactly, exactly. Because you have probably, if you're a curious enough person that you even ask that question in the first place, you're probably pretty good at a little introspection and a little bit of learning. And in that case, you know, save yourself the awkwardness because they're not gonna, they're most likely not gonna give you the satisfaction. Save yourself the awkwardness and just learn the attraction formula.

And I agree with that 100%. And the last thing I'll say on this is that it's very tempting to overemphasize the importance of the person that got away. And to think that there's something that you need to go back and kind of fix or change and get that person so that you can finally get closure and know that they didn't get away because of something you did or something that went wrong that you could have changed. It's very easy, especially if we like someone and they were charming and they were interesting and they seemed to tick a lot of boxes. if they don't like us or decided to fade out, it's very tempting just to go, I must not be good enough. Because it's not like I can point to them being a complete douchebag. It's not like I can point to them being a horrible person. I actually like them and I think they're a great, cool, quality human being who was really charming and they just didn't want me. It's very easy for that to be so crushing because you go, and therefore the conclusion is just that I'm not good enough. And the value of that person seems to go up at that point because they didn't choose us. And now it's like whoever we get, if that person didn't choose us, then we're still not good enough because we need closure with that person. We need that person to want us again for us to have closure. that is a trap. That is a trap because you, you can't, you can't go back and be enough for the person who was incapable of seeing your value or for the person that met you at a time of your life where you were still evolving and therefore weren't the you that you are today. It's, it's in, it's so pointless to ever worry about who we weren't enough for in the past, because you're not who you were in the past. And you can't go back and change the universe to a place where you were ready in the past or where you would learn all the lessons in the past. There is someone that will fall for you who... someone in that person's past wasn't enough for.

Right?

Like that. My. My brain goes to whoever you end up marrying, they rejected someone in the past who is a perfectly wonderful human being and turned out to be the most awesome partner ever. But the person you're marrying rejected them at the time because that person was still a work in progress at the time, or because the person you're married to was a work in progress at the time and couldn't see that person's value. So it's kind of like we're all, we're all Jew at some point. Like we're all gonna get hit at some point with a rejection, with our ego being crushed, with not being good enough for someone at the time because we just hadn't evolved yet or someone couldn't see our value because they weren't evolved yet. It's a big circle. It's a big circle and sometimes it's our turn to get hurt and sometimes it's our turn to be chosen. Don't distract yourself from the moment in your life where it's your time to be chosen by obsessing over a time when it was your turn to be rejected.

I think that's really good. And I would just say, I would just close with this, which is that When those things come up that you can't change, like if you're looking for closure and somebody talks about, I don't know, your freckles or whatever else it is that you can't actually change, that kind of feedback and that kind of closure, it should just become very boring to you. Kind of the same way, like when we talk about time travel or like once I figured out, oh, I don't know if it was Stephen Hawking or something, it finally kind of figured out, Oh, you really can't go back in time. You really can't do that. Like at a certain point I figured that out like oh, back to the future really won't work. If they ever work out time traveling it'll be more like you can go in the future, right? So now when people, when you talk about going back and changing the past, it's a little bit more boring. It's like, it's kind of just like, it's boring. It's never gonna really happen. I just kind of put those in the same category of like, You don't need closure there. That kind of insecurity, that's boring right there. That going back in that alternate universe, that's boring there too. It's just boring. A lot of closure, like you always say, disinterest is closure. And I'm kind of more of the mindset that closure is boring. I love that.

Jameson says closure's uninteresting. It's great. Matt says disinterest is closure. Jameson is disinterested in closure.

Very good.

Yeah.

It is that time again for Audrey in the archives. Jameson.

What's that?

I see you peeking over a familiar sight.

What's that there in the distance?

It's Audrey. There she goes, finding her way with the spectacles, with her little specks into the elevator as she puts on her rummaging jacket to take her way down into the deep subterranean archives of our content. Here we watch her as she ruffles through papers of different magical scrolls, different potions designed to make us more attractive, make us confident, bring us to a place in our lives where we're ready to accept love, different tricks and wonders. Oh, Jameson, it looks like she's got something.

I wonder what she picked.

She's back in the elevator. and making her way up to bring us what she has found. This of course is Audrey in the Archives, the point in the show where Audrey finds a piece of advice from one of our programs to bring to you now.

I wonder if I'll ever stop finding this hilarious.

Well, what did you find and where is it from?

It's from a program that you created called what Men Want. And as I was down in the archives, I wasn't sure what to go for and as seeing as we've had a few text messages, I thought I'd change it up. In this program you talk about the six ways to keep hitting the sweet spot in dating in order to become attractive and more attractive to the person that you're seeing. So you reveal six different ways, but I picked out one of them because I thought it was such an interesting concept. It's pretty simple, but it's genius. It is, of course, to leave your interactions on a high. What you went on to write is, A guy who likes you will initially encourage you to stay longer and longer around him because just like you, he's under the spell of the pleasure rush of being with someone new. But feel free to leave things on a high when he still wants more. Spend the night at his but have something arranged with a friend the next afternoon. Speak on the phone for a while but then say goodnight while you still have more to talk about. Keep the flame alive instead of letting it burn out every time you see him. I just think this is so clever because I think if you can always leave somebody wanting more and always leave somebody feeling that they haven't quite had enough, that's going to make them want to stay around you and want to ask you out again and want to text you and talk to you. So yeah, that's what I pulled out from the archives. Leave your interactions with them on a high.

That's very good. It makes me think of that Seinfeld episode where George Costanza is always leaving every interaction on a high. Is that where you got that from, Matt? Or Steven, was this your idea?

I actually remember you, no, the Costanza reference, I remember you saying afterwards, but I just love the fact that you usually are able to take some piece of our content and boil it down to a George Costanza reference.

Yeah.

He's one of the great characters in all of literature. I agree with that, yes.

Further to our episode, if you find yourself getting the same rejection over and over again, you can do the George Costanza thing, where he decides to do the opposite of everything in his life, because he realizes everything in his life is wrong. So he figures if he just does the opposite of his usual instincts, it's.

When.

He approaches a woman at the bar and just says, My name is George. I'm unemployed and I live with my parents. And she's just like, hi, I'm Karen. Starts to work for him. I think that's the episode he gets a job with the Yankees. Everything goes right for him because he does the office.

Well, before we do our final wrap up, we did get a voice note from none other than Andrea who wrote the Jams Jingle. that you all love so much and we've had so much wonderful feedback about.

How does that jambes jingle go exactly?

I'm glad you asked, Jamison.

They are the jambes. Help where they can. Inspiration in life and love and confidence. They'll make you laugh. Sometimes you'll cry and that is why. Pickles, peach and spares, we love the jams.

That of course, the jams jingle by Andrea Gal, who has also left us a voice note.

Hey, my name is Andrea. I want to say thank you to the jams. I prefer your longer episodes because I listen to your podcast while I'm cleaning houses, which is a job that I created because I lost mine due to the world circumstances. Cleaning is not my passion. Music and singing my online brand, Andrea Gal official and dreams of hosting events for women to come and heal, laugh, cry and get hope for their lives while I share my life story and my music with them. Those are my passions. The episode you did on single shaming made me cry. I've listened to it several times because it has deeply impacted my life. I lost my parents at age 27. four months apart. Then I met a man, got married and divorced. All of this happened within four years. Then all the grieving began and the growing. That episode gave me so much hope that all that I've been through is preparation for a beautiful future. I'm 40, I'm single, and I don't want to be anymore. But your advice on weight or create reminded me of all the things I want in life and know that I've been gifted with the talents to actually do. So it's time again to create. Your example of Anthony Bourdain and the age he was when things changed so drastically for him gave me so much hope because at times I felt like it's too late and I'm too old. Thank you for also acknowledging that while I build the life I want, I can still want love and not be ashamed of that. I love your podcast and just know that you jams are helping a lot of people in this crazy life. Love you guys.

So nice. Wow.

Wow. That's amazing. That's so nice.

Beautiful. I have to know. And I realized we haven't had an update on this. Is Andrea part of the virtual Retreat yet? We said last time that we would find a way to get her there. Financial constraints or not. So let's make that our mission before the next podcast, we need an update.

Well, yeah, I've actually reached out to the relevant member of our team who is on it. I actually addressed it this morning, so it's underway. It's happening. Very good.

All right. Very timely me mentioning that. Okay, I look forward to hearing how that goes. She is gonna be there one way or another, I promise you that. Very good. Thank you, Andrea Gal. Again, Andrea's Instagram handle is @AndreaGal. Gal G-A-L official. Go check her out.

Give her a follow after that. I mean, come on.

Can I just say she's getting at something so profound there, I just want to linger for a second. And I don't even know if I have a point, and just to say that, Andrea, I feel you. That feeling of wasted potential is just so painful. When you feel like, when you know, and you're right, by the way, when you're right, when you're Andrea and you're actually very talented, and you feel like you're just not, you have so much to give and it's just not catching the gear, you know? What do you do? I mean, what kind of, firstly, Andrea, I mean, firstly you are kind of doing it. You reached out to us and that was really good, but I just think this is a good time for Matt to work his magic. This is when I lean on Matt to, I don't know. When the world is just kind of painful because of wasted potential, what do you do?

I love that she picked up on the Anthony Bourdain thing that I said because I really believe that we can have a growth spurt at any age. Or at any age, we can suddenly see the results of a previous growth spurt. The world doesn't always reward you in real time for the growth spurt you're having. Sometimes you do a lot of work in private and you haven't even seen the effect that that creates in the world yet. That might happen in the years to come. So I don't think anyone should ever be deterred by the fact that the internal results they've gotten and the work they've done and the suffering that they've come through that has made them so strong or so wise or so interesting or so empathetic. isn't being represented in progress on the outside yet. Know that character, true character, being built through difficult times, true wisdom, the truest empathy and ability to connect that comes from going through difficult times. All of that is something that will absolutely affect what happens in your life, the opportunities that come to you, the doors that open, the people that will pay attention to you. So don't ever feel like, oh, God, why I've done all this work, why is it not happening for me yet? The fruits of all of that labor could come at any time. And in the meantime, know that who you've become is a reward in itself. And it's actually the greatest reward because whatever results come or whatever doors open, they can also close again. The results can also go away. But character is consistent. Wisdom is something you hold on to. Who you become is an asset that you take forward in every year of your life. That's you. What you've done is, as a human being, created a new Baseline. So I'm not worried about the results you're not getting right now. I think that the hardest result to get, which is the change in yourself, that is the most amazing reward you could have. And it will produce for you for the rest of your life.

Also, I'm just thinking of the jingle again, because first of all, why would you think of anything else? It's just in my head and it's just beautiful. But if you listen to that again, I'm just thinking of the cadence, the delivery of those lyrics. Like, I don't know that it would not Andrea, if everything went great for you in the musical industry, you never would have been able to deliver those lyrics in the way you did. It was a very subtle read and it's absolutely beautiful, but there's just something about music especially where it just captures where you are in your life and I don't know, maybe things needed to not work out so easily for you because we needed to we needed to hear this next chapter of Andrew.

I couldn't agree more, Jameson. What that jingle had was soul. And soul is something that comes through in everything you do if you have it. And you have it. So it's even in a jingle that you make for a giggle with us had soul, which is why we played it out loud. and why we played it the last two weeks in a row. And by the way, let's not forget the initiative you took to make that and send it to us is the reason we're talking about you right now to an audience of millions of people. So keep injecting soul into everything you do, the soul that has come from everything you've ever been through, and keep being proactive in the way that you were, because that's what's going to make the difference. Two things before you go, everybody. If you haven't already, go over to movonstrong.com if there is someone you're struggling to get over right now, either because you feel like there's still a shot at being with them or because you want to get over them for good, this free video training I've got will help you with either of those two things. Go over to movonstrong.com for that free training now. and if you haven't already, make sure you secure your ticket to this November's virtual retreat. This is the final virtual retreat of the year. We have three days of immersive coaching. You're going to be spending with me, Steven, Jameson, and Audrey, and our entire team. People are going to be joining from all over the world for three days of transformation. This is the pinnacle of what we do, and we are inviting you to join before it's all over. This is the last chance this year. You don't even need to leave your house to get this change to your confidence, to your opportunities in life, to your mindset and your emotions. If you are ready to take charge of your life, to make the most of every second of your life, and to feel the best you've ever felt, come join us by going to mhvirtualretreat.com. .com. I'll see you there. Well, we've been all over the world today. We visited Australia, where reviews have been left, and yes, maybe they've been left under duress. Maybe I forced them, but they said beautiful things. nonetheless. We've been over to the Democratic Republic of Congo, where Loïc Hostettler has been talking about the difficulties in a breakup, a breakup that left wounds, but also the possibility of new love, a possibility evidenced by Mary and her wonderful voice note, who took the time to tell us about a life that had not gone her way. but a life that circled back to where it started. A place of Love, a place of connection, and all because of the work that she did on herself. We have learned about Stephen's lack of interest in closure and Jameson's inability to find closure interesting at all. We've also learned that I need to dress better for Audrey anytime that we go to Vegas, because last time I didn't try hard enough. We've heard from Andrea Gal as she prepares for her beautiful future, a time of creation, not a time to play defense, a time for Andrea to go out there in the same way that she did when she sent a jingle to us, a jingle that has been played for the last two weeks, that she needs to do the same thing with every part of her future. Because as we have learned through this episode. We can spend so much time worrying about the rejection in our lives that we miss our opportunity and our window to be chosen. And it goes back to what we always say, you can either wait or you can create. Rumination is waiting, forward thinking is creating. So with that, I will take my leave, a la George Costanza. Leave this episode on a high. Thank you, everybody, for listening. We'll see you on the next episode of Love Life. Remember, you can look for the love you want. Just don't forget to love the life you already have. We'll see you next time.

He's done it again. He's done it again.

Amazing, babe.

I hope that when Lowick is listening to this, like he's on his final set at the gym when that comes on, 'cause that one's really gonna push him at the very end.

Thank you, Jameson. Thank you, Stephen. Thank you, Audrey. Thank you for you, all of you out there, for caring enough about what we have to say and listening every week. Us jams, we'll see you next time.

Bye, guys.

Bye.