How To Eliminate Self-Doubt TODAY w/ Jamie Kern Lima

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Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the love live podcast with me, Matthew Hussey. And today I have an incredibly special guest, someone I met just over a year ago now, I think it was, and someone who I've gotten to know a little better over that time. this person is Jamie Kern Lima. She is the co-founder of IT Cosmetics, which she started in her living room with her husband and a company that became worth over $1.2 billion, which is just unbelievable. Became one of the largest cosmetic companies in the United States. The first female CEO under L'Oreal. She is an outspoken proponent of female leadership and professional empowerment. The author of the book, Believe It, and now the brand new book worthy, how to believe you are enough and transform your life. Jamie, welcome to the love life podcast.

Matthew, thank you so much for having me. I am so excited for this episode. It is going to be so powerful, and I'm just honored and grateful to be here and share this time with you and every single person who's joining us right now.

I feel the same way, and I you Your subject matter of this book is so incredibly aligned with what we spend a lot of time talking about, both on the Love Life podcast, on my courses, that subject of worthiness that plagues us everywhere in our lives. And it feels like we do so much in life to one day feel like we are worthy. And then many of us to our great despair feel like nothing ever works. What do you say to people just to jump right in the deep end?

Yes.

Who feel like no matter what they do, they never feel worthy. It doesn't matter what happens in their life. they just feel this constant sense of unworthiness and it makes them feel like they are just broken, like nothing ever going to work. I'm never gonna be able to change. I'm never truly gonna be happy within myself. What do you say to people who just feel like they're broken?

They are in the right place on the right show today. That is the first thing I say. Here's the thing, our self-worth is our ceiling in every area of life, even in our love life, in our relationships, in our goals and dreams and ambitions. You know, I talk a lot in Worthy about how we don't rise to the level of our goals and dreams. We really stay stuck or fall to the level of our self-worth and how we We can, you know, so often even want a great relationship or want really healthy, loving relationships in our life, whether it's with friends or loved ones, or we can have these big career goals or know that we want to put our ideas or art or work out into the world. And we don't know why it's not happening. And sometimes we think, oh, I've got to get more skill set or I've got to get more experience. And sometimes that's true, but oftentimes, if deep down inside we don't think we're enough and that we're worthy of the thing, that is when it will never happen, right? Because in life, we don't become what we want. We become what we believe we're worthy of. And so the first thing I would say for everyone in that spot, right, is that a lot of times people hide it. And what's surprising is some of the most accomplished people on the outside actually still do not feel enough on the inside. And it's why they are perpetually unfulfilled, no matter how much they accomplish. And the first thing I want to say is that for anyone who right now is listening to you and me and, you know, whether they feel broken or they feel like, I am a hyper achiever doing all this stuff, but I still feel like I'm not enough. First thing is they're not alone. Like right now, as you and I are talking, 80% of women don't believe they're enough. 73% of men feel inadequate or like they're not enough. 75% of female executives deal with imposter syndrome. 91% of girls and women do not love their body. When we fundamentally believe we are not enough, like innately is who we are, it is a lie and like literally like what's beautiful about our self-worth is not something that you can ever earn or achieve. It is not something that no matter how many past mistakes or failures or regrets you have can disqualify you from. Like every person listening right now is innately and fully worthy. Fully worthy. And the big, I think, One of the biggest, most important journeys we'll ever take in this lifetime is unlearning the lies that lead to self-doubt and then sort of like reigniting those truths that wake up worthiness. So that is why I wrote Worthy because a lot of people know me as like, oh, Denny's Waitress Builds Billion Dollar Business. It's like, yes, that's part of my story, but my real story is going, you know, a girl who went from not believing in herself most of her life. Like I literally doubted myself. out of my own destiny so many times or sabotage things because I didn't believe I was worthy of them. And my real journey has been like learning how to unlearn those lies that lead to self-doubt and learn to believe I'm enough as who I am, like exactly as I was created to be. And what I know for sure is that every single person listening is right now. and I think that we are taught so many lies, including that, you know, confidence and self-worth are the same, which they're not. And so many of us, and they're both so important, so important, but a lot of us do all the things to build self-confidence, which is really important, but we don't realize none of those things actually build self-worth, which is different. And so, you know, in Worthy and in my own journey through kind of learning the hard way, I realized the importance of self-worth because it's just, it's our ceiling in everything. And so when we learn to raise it, not only do we, you know, not only does it shift every part of our lives from our relationships to what we believe we're worthy of in those relationships, to the kind of people, you know, and partners we attract, to the amount of recognition of love we need to learn to love ourselves. but it also just helps us feel fulfilled in all the things we achieve that build self-confidence because we feel enough as we are in the pursuit of those things. So self-worth, I believe, Matthew, it is the one thing that will change everything in every area of our life.

I don't know if it's a question anyone has asked you. It may feel like the most obvious question in the world given the book you've written, Would you say you feel worthy?

I do now, and it is a very recent, I'm talking about just a couple year old thing. What I, yeah, so most of my life, I believe the lie that if I just achieved enough, then I would finally feel enough. and I spent four decades of my life believing that lie. And for anybody listening to us right now who maybe can imagine in their life, like if you had this kind of big hope or dream and you thought, well, I don't feel enough right now, but once I get that thing, then, oh my gosh, then I'll finally feel enough, right? For some people, it's, you know, you know, getting married and having kids or for other people, it's the dream car or the six-pack abs or, you know, some number in the bank account or some job title. And for a lot of us, they will work so hard sometimes months, years or decades and we finally get that thing. And then, you know, we think it's gonna solve all of our problems, make us happy, help us feel enough. and my experience, and maybe a lot of people, Matthew, that are with us right now listening to this can relate to this, that you arrive at that thing and you're like, oh, and you're happy for a little bit and before you know it, you're back to feeling like something's missing and like it's not enough and like you're not enough. And so our solution to that usually is like, oh, I've just got to work harder. I've just got to hit the next level and the next thing and the next thing and this perpetual, kind of treadmill of achievement for most people will go on forever for their whole lives and they still will arrive at the end of their life feeling like something's missing and like they're not enough and not fulfilled. And all of those things that we pursue on the outside build confidence, which is so important, right? But none of them build self-worth. And so in my life, I have spent four decades just believing if I just achieve enough. And so, you know, I did 100 hour weeks for, you know, over a decade building it cosmetics from my living room and, and so many of the things, Matthew, I could have only dreamed about happening, when I was a Denny's waitress and almost doubted myself out of and just built enough self worth to believe they were possible, for me and to believe I was worthy of them. But then I would achieve these things. and still feel like something is missing. And I would just do it over and over and over and over. And I found myself in this spot where I had accomplished all these things I thought would make me feel enough. And I was sitting there with all of them still not feeling like I was enough. And here is what I know, and maybe a lot of people can relate to this. When I say our self-worth is our ceiling, if underneath at all we don't believe we are enough, It will show up in our lives, in our relationships. Maybe we are crushing it at work or we are crushing it in our fitness and health goals. But if underneath it all, we do not believe we are enough, it often shows up in three ways. And this started happening to me in my life even after I had all of what the world told me success looks like. When we have low self-worth, right? So self-confidence is different. It is how we assess our skills and abilities, our willingness to try and go for it. and if we're winning or losing or how much of the world's definition of success we have, and while self-confidence is internal, it's largely based on what's happening on the external and it fluctuates and it rises and falls. And the studies show the boxer who wins the fight is automatically 30% more confident. And our self-worth, on the other hand, is like the deep internal knowing that we are worthy of love and belonging exactly as we are. Not as we achieve, not as we've failed and nothing external, but exactly as we are. I like to describe it that our self-confidence is the house we're building with all the rooms and the art and all the things we're going after, which is such an important part of life. We need confidence and growth and contribution to be fulfilled, but our self-worth is that foundation holding the house up. If it has cracks in it and it's not stable, our house will only ever be as stable as the foundation on it. and so what I didn't realize, Matthew, was I was building this big house in my life and achieving all these things, but underneath it, I didn't believe I was enough. And so the three ways just for everyone who wants to hopefully get a lot of value out of this episode and be like, oh, is this a real issue for me in my life? The three ways that self-worth issues with self-worth often show up is if we have really low self-worth, it can look like we're stuck. and we don't know why. Like we have an idea to write a book, but we're not doing it. Or we want to put our art out in the world, but we're not. Or, you know, we're working inside of a company, but we know we're born to run one. And we don't know why we haven't taken the leap. We want a life partner, and we don't know why we're not getting on the dating app or putting ourselves out there. And we tell ourselves, oh, the reason I'm I need to put in more reps, I need more experience. I'm not ready yet. And those things might be true. You might need more skill sets or experiences, but often we're stuck because deep down inside, we don't actually believe we're worthy of the thing that we really want, so we stay stuck. And if you have low to medium self-worth, that often looks like you'll go for the thing, you'll put yourself out there, but you'll hit a ceiling. like your business will hit five figures and you really want a six figure business or you'll meet a potential partner and they're amazing and you just aren't attracted to them and you put them in the friend zone. You'll sabotage it and not know why because you don't think you're worthy of it and then medium to high self-worth, what that looks like. And you and I have a lot of friends that are in this group. I have been in this a lot of my life. It looks like we'll go for the thing. We'll achieve it. We'll crush it. The world will be like, Great job. Our family will be so proud. But then deep down inside, we still feel like something's missing. Like it's not enough. We don't feel fulfilled. And so those are really the few things that shows up. And I did not understand the difference between self-confidence and self-worth for decades. So I just just kept trying to do more and be more, improve more, and get more love, hoping that will feel enough. And I had built it, cosmetics and over a thousand employees and millions and millions and millions of customers and sold it for over a billion dollars cash and all these things that you would think, oh yeah, then I'd feel enough. And I still didn't feel enough. And I was still sabotaging things in my personal life. And not knowing why. And I had a lifelong dream come true my entire life since I was a little girl. I always dreamed of meeting Oprah. I used to watch her from my living room growing up. And she was sort of like, we all kind of have a hero. A lot of us have a childhood hero or a mentor from afar. And she was always mine. And I remember just dreaming or actually believing I would one day meet her. And 40 years later, I was 39. And I met her, long story short, had lunch with her at her house for three hours, just me and her. Everything in my life on the outside was going well. Like I had all these things that the world said, you know, should make me feel enough. I have lunch with Oprah for three hours. It went so well. I was very confident at the time. But what I didn't realize is that's different than self-worth. And I had very low self-worth. even though I was really confident. And here's what happened, Matthew, she gave me her number at the end of that lunch and said, you can call me anytime, call me anytime. This is like my lifelong hero, right? I did not call her for four years, like four years. And for anyone listening to us right now who has sabotaged an opportunity, who has doubted themselves out of a room, or doubted themselves out of raising their hand and sharing their idea, or they meet someone and they still haven't told them they want to be more than just friends. Like, this is what happens when deep down inside we don't believe we're worthy of something. So we can be having all this success in some areas, but still not thinking we're enough underneath it all. And four years went by and I told myself, like, oh, I'm not calling her because I just don't have the right thing to say yet, or I want to prove I don't need anything. People always need stuff from her or all these stories. And then literally four years later, it hit me like a huge light bulb moment where I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm actually not calling her because deep down inside, I don't believe I'm worthy of being her friend. And that was the moment I picked up the phone four years later and called her. And so many things have happened since that would have never happened had I not learned to understand, like, oh my gosh, I am sabotaging myself out of my life because I do not believe I'm worthy. And that's when I became obsessed with studying self-worth and with figuring out how to build it. So hopefully for anyone listening just right now, I just think, I mean, for me, it was a breakthrough to understand, wow, this is a real difference. And self-confidence is so important and I work hard to build it every day still right now, but self-worth is different. And so to answer your question, and again, it is a lifelong journey of building it. So every single day, Matthew, every single day, right now, it is a journey of building self-worth and and amassing this toolbox of tools, right? Like I wrote Worthy with over 20 tools on how to build self-worth. And I just wanna share for a moment that Mr. Matthew Hussey is quoted in Worthy talking about, if it should have been, it would have been. And some other amazing, beautiful words from you.

I'm so honored to make an appearance in the book. I'm curious, the part that that relates to, what is the tool or the insight that you use that in the context of?

I think that there's a few ways in the book that I go into it. So the book has over 20 tools to build self-worth and there's a whole section on the lies that lead to self-doubt and how do we unlearn those and kind of replace them with the truth that wake up worthiness. But one of the chapters is called When you change your relationship with rejection, you change your entire life. And so many of us don't, and this is actually going to be its own book, but I didn't want to wait two and a half more years for it to come out. So it's a chapter two. Yeah. And it's called When you change your relationship with rejection, you change your life. And so many of us associate so much pain or let me just take us a step back. You know how everything in life is the meaning we attach to it? Everything in life is the meaning we attach to it. And as human beings, you know, we're so wired to avoid pain at all costs. Even if we know doing something can bring us a great reward, if we are attaching a lot of pain to it, it does not matter for most of us how great that reward is. It doesn't matter if we know, oh, if I go to the gym, I'm going to feel so good after and I'm going to get so healthy and my cholesterol will go down. We can look at all the rewards, but we're like, I do not want to get on the treadmill. The pain will happen. We'll avoid pain at all costs. And so, rejection, the fear of rejection and the fear of failure, For so many of us, we attach such a painful meaning to those things. And in my journey of building a cosmetics from my living room, a lot of people just see the outcome now. They're like, oh wow, they're in Sephora and Ulta Beauty and all the department stores and Cubes. Like they're this huge company. And what a lot of people don't know is for over three years from the point where I launched it with my husband in our living room, We were teetering on bankruptcy for almost three years. We couldn't afford to pay ourselves a penny. And all these people I put on a pedestal, like these stores, I used to shop in their stores and like save my waitressing tip money to buy a lipstick. And I just thought, oh my gosh, they're gonna love our products. And I just had this vision. But every single one of them said, no, no after no. And not just like, no, but you're not the right for us or our customers. I mean, it was so many no's, hundreds of no's for years. And I had to learn in that journey how to literally change the meaning I assigned to rejection or failure from one that was really painful and disempowering to one that was really empowering and learn how to believe it. Otherwise, there is no way I could have kept going back and back and back and getting back up and back up because a lot of us, we, get told no, or we fail at something once or five times, or someone says no 20 times and we quit and we give up and we think there's something wrong with us, right? Or we put ourselves out there and go on date after date after date and we start to think there's something wrong with us. And the meaning we attach to rejection and failure can be so painful. And by the way, Just to get a little granular, when we attach negative meaning to rejection and failure, it will shake our confidence and hurt our confidence. But when we take it at a deep root level and we start to believe we're a failure or we're a reject, that's when it takes you to a self-worth level and an identity level. And so I go in the book on how to, first of all, and maybe everyone listening to us right now, if you just imagine yourself really quickly, imagine yourself getting rejected, which for me is very easy to imagine. Imagine yourself getting rejected or failing. And what's the first thought that goes through your head? Like without thinking about it, when you imagine that. And for me, most of my life, that first thought was like, oh, yep, there's proof I'm not enough. If there's proof again, I'm not enough. and when I've asked this question in groups, like a lot of time, even like groups of CEOs, people will share stuff like, I'm a failure. I shouldn't have even tried. Who do I think I am? For everyone listening to us right now, that first thought you just had, that is your current definition of rejection. That's the meaning you assigned to it. And so for most of us, we don't realize it, but it's so painful, it will keep us. from putting ourselves out there. And so I go through in Worthy in the book how to identify what that is and then reframe it with a real powerful, positive, empowering definition that you have to believe it's true. It can't be like, oh, this, you know, whatever. Everything's meant to be. But if you don't deeply believe that's true, it won't work. And so I talk to you how do you really identify new definitions that are empowering that you can assign to rejection or failure every time it happens, where you actually start to become fearless. And so one could be if it should have been, it would have been. And if you have a deep trust in that, in whether it's through God, through the universe, whatever your beliefs are, you have a deep trust in that, that that is true. And I do believe that to be true. then every time it happens, instead of being like, oh, yeah, it's proof I'm not enough, you replace it with, oh, yeah, well, this is great, because if it should have been, it would have been like, you know what I mean? Or it can be any number of things. I was adopted, and most of my life, I told myself this story that I'm unwanted or. Or abandoned or unlovable, and it impacted the kind of. people I dated. It impacted unhealthy, toxic relationships I would stay in because I didn't want to abandon that person. And I felt I was, you know, abandonable. And I literally went through this exercise in my life, and I switched it to something I truly believed to be true, which is like my birth mom, her life would have been way easier if she did not have me. So she did not. abandoned me. Like, she chose me. Like, she chose to have me and my parents who adopted me and raised me. Like, they chose to raise me. Like, God chose me to be like, I. And I just changed my story from, like, oh, I'm not rejected and abandoned and wanted. I'm chosen. And, like, I believe that. And I will go through every time I'm tempted to feel those feelings, and I will reframe it right away. Oh, no, no, I'm chosen. and it's impacted how I am in friendships. It's impacted every part of my life. When we were building at Cosmetics and I was getting all these rejection after rejection after rejection, one day I was crying under my covers because I didn't know how we were going to make it as a business. And I just thought, oh, my gosh, if all these experts are telling me it's not going to work, maybe my gut feeling is wrong. Maybe like, you know, all those things and I don't know who needs to hear this today, by the way, but I do not care who tells you no. Like other people's no's are no indication of your potential of success in what you're pursuing. But that's a side note. So in the journey, I was just getting, I was in such a down state, rejection after rejection after rejection. And I was crying under my covers one day when QVC gave us this really painful no and literally told me, you are not the right fit for QVC or for our customers. Now, years later, we built the biggest beauty brand in QVC's history. But when you're going through that season of someone telling you it's not the right fit or you're not the right fit, it's really hard. And that day I was crying under my covers, I decided to Google every single person who I admired most in business or in thought leadership or in faith. or who's helped move humanity forward in some way. And what I realized, Matthew, is every single one of them has gone through so many rejections or failures, but they're just the brave ones willing to keep going anyways. And that day I wrote out in my journal, like this rejection does not mean I'm not enough, which is always my default story. It means I'm one of the brave, I'm one of the brave ones willing to put myself out there and keep going anyways. Like, I'm not going to sit, spend my life on the sidelines living in regret. Like, I am going to go for it. And I committed to myself, okay, every no, I'm going to instantly turn around and be like, this is a victory. I'm one of the brave ones. It's a reminder. I'm one of the brave ones willing to go for it. And these are hard things to believe in the beginning, but when you can consistently remind yourself of them. Like, I can sit here and tell you right now, I've got so many issues in my life that I'm working on, but fear of rejection and failure is not one of them. Like, I am fearless with rejection and I get, we all get rejections or failures every day. Like, sometimes somebody doesn't invite us to the coffee or the party and we're hurt or we applied for a job we really, really want and they didn't see our value and we didn't get it. The last thing I'll say quickly is I go through the 4R framework in the book worthy on how to do this. And my favorite R of all is revisiting past rejections and failures, because a lot of us have let these past heartbreaks or rejections or failures or people who betrayed us or pulled the rug out from underneath us. We've let it take root in this meaning we've assigned to it. where we start to believe we're a rejector, we're a failure. And so I talk about how to revisit those and then reframe ones from the past to help unroot them from our self-worth. And just in case someone needs to hear it today, my favorite one of all time, I use this almost every day, Matthew, maybe someone needs this today, this tool. Which by the way, you can revisit past rejections and right away, if it should have been, it would have been. That is a great reframe to believe. And another one of my very all-time favorites, and this I think is universal no matter if someone has any particular faith they practice or believes in the universe, whatever you believe, for me, I will look at past rejections and people that broke my heart or hurt me or friends that betrayed my trust. And I will literally reframe it this way. I will imagine God saying to me, oh, you weren't rejected. I hid your value from them because they're not assigned to your destiny. And I will believe it all day long. And it frees me. It frees me from letting rejections or failures take root in my self-worth it frees me from having them become my ceiling and me thinking I'm not worthy of going for the next thing or the next potential partner or the next friend, right? A lot of us want to make friends as an adult and it's hard. So anyways, that is one of the ways in the book that I apply those beautiful words from you. It's also in a chapter, I believe, called the Lie I Don't Deserve Better, where I talk about the story of a friend who just stayed in a relationship who knows her worth in every area of her life except her relationships. And I talk about her journey I'm learning to lie. I don't deserve better. Yeah.

Reframing is. Is just one of the superpowers that changes the game, and it really can turn it. You know, it is just what you make it. Any situation, it can really be what you make it. If you have the right reframe in the right moment and you're able to truly connect to it, what about people who you know, I, I coach so many people who have been through so much rejection in their personal lives. And, you know, they, they may be in their 50s, they may be in their 60s, they may be even older and just finding that I've experienced nothing but rejection in my love life. And, you know, I never got to tell the story of well, you know, I can't say I'm JK Rowling who wrote Harry Potter and, you know, X number of publishers rejected me, but then one came through and saw that it was Harry Potter and published it. And I, you know, got to say I told you so. They've never had that experience in their love life where someone showed up and seemed to connect with their value and give them that experience that they had always wanted of feeling like someone sees me and someone wants me and someone wants to hold on to me. What do you say to people who have experienced so much rejection that it feels like, well, this must, on some level, be a reflection of my worth.

And.

And even if it's not a reflection of my worth, my results don't seem to be changing. I still am not being chosen, so. In a way, someone like that could say that that's not an indication of my worth doesn't change my reality, which is that I want to find love and I'm struggling to find the love that I want. What do you say to people who have experienced rejection on that level for so long and it's seemingly impossible to still be brave or courageous or to keep believing something that it feels like the world is telling them isn't true.

So, so many thoughts come up around this to share. I think you teach this better probably than anyone in the world on how important it is to choose ourselves and learn to love ourselves. And you look at so many studies out there that show that the depth of love that and connection we can feel with another person can only ever be as deep as the depth of love and connection we can feel with ourselves. And I think that the, a couple things, the most important thing, and I know this is hard, is to fully learn to choose yourself and love yourself and build your own self-worth And second is to give what you need. And I think that, and what I mean by that is there have been so many times in my life where I have felt lonely or have felt unseen or have felt like I don't have connection or any of those things. And one of my favorite ways to get what I need in those areas is to give it. and what I mean by that is on days where I feel like, oh, I just feel disconnected or lonely or unseen, I will walk into a coffee shop and literally instead of being on my phone, instead of saying hi without looking at somebody, like I will literally just see somebody, like whether it's the person checking me out with coffee, you know, like ringing me up at the register with coffee or if somebody in line, like, and I will literally like, how are you, you know, give them an honest compliment. It can't be fake. It has to be like, I love your sweater. But I just, like, actually see them. And here, the first thing I will say, because I think learning to love ourselves and learning to be seen and have love in our lives, even though I know a lot of us want it also to be romantic, I just feel like love. First of all, we are love. You say this better than anyone. I'm trying to remember your exact quote, but when we realize that we are love, that is the most powerful way to feel love. And I know a lot of us want to add a romantic partner to part of our experience in this lifetime. But I think to feel a lot of the feelings we hope to get from a romantic partner, that we can get most all of those through other forms of connection as well, including depth of connection with ourselves. I love to see another person. It could be a neighbor, it could be someone in the coffee shop, it could be a person at work. And here's what's wild about 2024 is when you take a moment to truly see another person, like literally see them, and everyone listening to us can try this today because this moment will happen. When you really talk to them and really see them and ask them how they feel, the first thing that's going to happen is they'll probably give you a quick answer, oh, I'm good, thanks. And they won't even look at you because we're used to not looking at each other now. But then when you continue the conversation and you actually care and you actually ask them how their day is going or, you know, what's their favorite coffee here to drink or whatever it might be, there will be a moment or you love their hair or their tattoo or whatever it is, there will be a moment where when they're looking at you, you will see this in the iris of their eyes. You will see a moment where they realize you're actually seeing them. And in that moment when they realize you're actually seeing them, which by the way, you are most likely the only person that's gonna see them that entire day, or that entire week, or for some people for much longer. But the moment you connect to someone else and really see them and really talk to them, there will be this moment that you see in their eyes and you'll feel it. You'll feel it in your energetic being that all of a sudden in their eyes, they realize you're seeing them. And it is that moment that they see you back. It is that moment that they see you back. And all of a sudden, you get what you have needed in that moment. And it is the beautiful power of human connection that we have, you know, so we so easily have lost because we are so busy and we are so disconnected and we are all the things. And I think that, you know, giving what you need is just such a great practice to start. start that and then learning to believe and reframe, you know, what, what you want in your life with love. I mean, when you describe the person that has never had success, no matter how hard they've tried, they have never. I mean, they've just gotten rejected after no after no after no after no. The most important thing to realize, because when that happens to us in our lives, we will often hide it and we will think we are the only ones that that's happening to and that there's something wrong with us. And the reality is that happens to most of us. And the other reality is there's a lot of people in a marriage that feel unchosen and unloved and rejected every single day. Right. Just. But. But on their Instagram, they have another person in the photo with them. I think that the journey is all the same and I think it starts with us really learning to believe we are worthy of love and every single person. No one can disprove me in this. When you study self-worth, every person is fully worthy. It does not matter what you look like, what age you are, if you think you're too young or too old or you've made too many mistakes. or you, whatever it might be, none of that on the outside, that stuff will all rattle and shake your confidence, but none of it can determine your worth. You are born and are currently right now, fully worthy. And the journey is learning to believe that for yourself, right? Because with our self-worth being our ceiling, we will attract the kind of love that we love ourselves. I believe that through and through. And so I think the real journey, whether someone says, no one's chosen me, or what I would argue is maybe even more common, is someone has chosen me. I am in a relationship, a marriage, and I feel more lonely than ever, more unloved or unchosen than ever. That's a lot of people. That is so many people. Which is why I think the real journey in all of this is how do I learn to truly love myself. And there's this lie that that is selfish, and especially for women that, oh, we just need to get really good at putting everyone else first and then we'll finally feel enough. And all that does is perpetuate a generational cycle that tells the next generation they're not worthy of feeling enough on their own too, and they just need to show up for everyone else also. and it's a lie to unlearn. And so I think, you know, and then I, and then I think also when you ask that question, the fundamentals, right? You look at Jay-Z you look at Jay-Z who one of his most famous quotes is the genius thing we did was we didn't give up. Right. And it's like every person, I think just about goes through so many rejections. And for some of us, it's so many more rejections. And it's, you know, sitting here even thinking about business, like, you know, I have this outcome in the business world that is so one in a billion. Wow, she built this billion dollar company. But the journey was every single person said no. And it was no after no after no after no. And a lot of these nos, Matthew, they were like, they weren't like, oh, maybe later. They were like, no. like implying it's a never, like no. And for me, it's been knowing exactly what I want with clarity. Like these would be the five steps. This isn't even in the book worthy, but just to that question, knowing what you want with clarity, right? And for the person listening, if that is, I want a loving, healthy, romantic relationship, knowing what you want. Step one, knowing why you want it and really identifying the why for why you want it and then peeling back the layers and the why beneath the why. Because that has got to be so deep, you've got to know why you want it because that is a tool that you lean on for when it's not happening and when things aren't going well and you went out on the next date and that person is the most hot mess you've ever met and you're just losing hope. You've got to know why you want it. And then you got to take action, which is so important, right? You have to take action even when you don't want to keep getting back up and doing it over and over. So those three things are really important. Knowing what you want, knowing why you want it, taking action. Then the next two, I think, are the most important. And then the fourth is like learning to believe, really believe it's possible for you. And the fifth is the most important, I think, which is learning to believe you are worthy of it. In this case of finding a loving partner, learning to believe you are worthy of fully loving yourself because we attract the love, the amount of love we love ourselves, but learning to believe you are worthy of a loving, healthy relationship. And the biggest mistake I make is people try to get to that fifth step by achieving, by hitting a weight loss goal, by doing all these things they think are going to make them be the most attractive to another partner. But if underneath it all, you do not love yourself and believe you are enough, you're going to attract a level of love or a type of relationship, whether it's a friendship or romantic, that reflects the level that you believe you're worthy of. And so I think that's the biggest journey. And for someone feeling like it's just never going to happen to them, I do not believe that. I think that is BS. And I think, okay, maybe it hasn't happened so far, but I think you also have to ask yourself, is that the story I want to keep telling myself that this doesn't happen to me? Or is the story I want to tell myself, this hasn't happened so far, but look how many reps I've put in and I cannot wait until it does happen. The last thing I say, I feel like I'm talking so much, Matthew, you're such a great listener, but the last thing I'll say, when I was getting hundreds of rejections, and maybe people can apply this to their love life, too. When I was getting hundreds of rejections over the years from Sephora, all to all the cool stores, all of it, they probably thought I was nuts. Because here's the thing. Every time I got a rejection, and sometimes it felt so personal, like instead of just, like, giving up or what, I would write them an email the next day about, like, okay, well, Thank you so much. And one day when it is a yes, our products are going to change your customers' lives and I can't wait for that day and da-da-da-da-da. And I chose to believe in my head, it will be a yes. And this went on hundreds of nos, year after year after year. We eventually got yeses from QVC and Ulta and all the department stores. We became number one on QVC and Sephora was still telling me no. And it was a it was Six years before I finally got a yes out of Sephora. And in that journey, guess what happened? I knew at times I felt like it had to be personal because now they know for sure I'll make them money. It was like, but every time I did not take it personally, because that will take you down, right? Everything's been meaning we attached to it. So instead of telling myself, oh, I'm someone who will just always be rejected, it'll just never work out for me with Sephora. I was like, oh, Every time we had a new product launch, I'd send them another email. One day when we're in your stores, it's going to be so great, we're going to change your customers' lives. They'd be, Look, we have a new product or we get a press placement or something. I'd send it off to their buyers. I feel like Matthew, they knew I believed so strongly it would be a yes one day. I felt like they couldn't even, at some point, they're just like, okay, screw it, you're in. Because they said yes. I just really believe that, that, that we have to deep down inside make the decision to believe we're gonna find love. Yeah. Because we become what we believe.

There's a, there's a, our mutual friend, Ed Mylett, there's something he, he said to me that really stuck with me, which is that it's not about getting them to believe that it has value, whatever it is. your quote selling, it's about getting them to believe that you believe it has value. And that really rings true in what you just said, that they could have been in no doubt as to your belief that what you had to offer was special and valuable to them. And I also think there's a really important lesson there that can be applied in all ways in life, including people's love lives, which is that the you didn't take rejection as a reason to hate people or as a reason to turn or to become nasty or to several communication or you, you said to yourself, I'm still gonna, I'm not suggesting people do this after someone says they don't want to go on a date with you again. But, you know, in your business life, I think you reaching out to Sephora and saying, you know, I know that wasn't right for you now, but, you know, the next time you had something, you sent that to them. And there's also a white that. That's a way of continuously opening doors and make it easy for people to walk through them. And you're doing that because you're maintaining that beautiful attitude and that beautiful state. And I think so often rejection hardens us and it makes us bitter. And when we get hurt in life, it makes us close down and. The really unfortunate side effect of that is that it actually makes us less attractive to the world. We do end up precipitating the thing that we're most afraid of, which is obviously a very, very sad outcome. I'm curious as to what you think.

About.

Regret and the mistakes that we make in life. that can very easily make us hate ourselves. There are plenty of people who in a heartbreak immediately reflect on things that they did that might have precipitated the heartbreak. And, you know, in some cases we can say with some hindsight, oh, it, you know, I blame that on myself, but really it was about the other person. But there are other cases in life where we look back and we go, oh, I really did screw that up. You know, I've thought that in relationships before. I've thought that in business before, where I look back and I'm like, oh, it was my mindset that screwed that up. Or it was the way I approached that relationship that screwed it up. And it, when that happens, it can feel really hard to forgive ourselves, and it can feel really hard to not go on with these. not just regrets, but regrets that make us hate ourselves and then feel like when we say we hate ourselves, it's, you know, that really is like a kind of definition of unworthiness, right? Is I just hate myself. I think I am loathsome. So what is your view on the perhaps, you know, mistakes you've made in your own life and the ones that really could have stayed with you if you'd let them? and what is an insight or a tool that you could give people? Maybe someone going through a heartbreak right now, maybe someone who's looking back on a marriage, maybe someone's just looking back on big mistakes in life that could help them move past them and feel worthy again.

I think that what you just shared is the biggest thing for most of us because most of us have had past mistakes. or regrets or miscalculations or things we're just so embarrassed about or are carrying shame over. And we have let them kind of take root at an identity level. And I think the most important thing is to be aware of those things because we are not our past mistakes. we are not, or our past failures. And, you know, there's that famous saying that your past can't hold you back unless you live there. And I think it's so important to be aware of what it is and decide again, the meaning that you're going to attach to it. And if you want it, okay, without being insensitive, because I'm going to use myself in this. It can be easy to also think we've made too many mistakes or, you know, failures or whatever, and almost use that as an excuse for why we're not going after the things. And I think the most important thing is, you know, There's so many things for a lot of us in our past. And in Worthy, I talk about things I've never shared before about unhealthy toxic relationships I was in because I confused attention with love. And I confused approval with love. And I talk about big mistakes that I've made that I'll probably be judged for when the book comes out, which is out now, yay.

Congratulations, by the way.

Thank you so much. And there's stories in here that I almost pulled out and had a million talks with the publisher. Should I really keep these in there? And I kept them in for the sole reason of the person who believes that somehow their past mistakes define them and their past embarrassing or shameful or regretful moments define them or the labels that they or other people have stuck on them, define them. And that is not true. That is not true. And I believe with everything, there's a period of reflection, a period of grieving. I think that can go on for many years or decades. And I think that's important. And also, I think it's really important to know that you have the power to decide the story of your life. You do and you have the power to decide the meaning you attach to things. And, you know, when I shared that story about Oprah, for example, after I finally called her, we taught a course together on resiliency. And one of the things that she went into was how she believes every single thing in life is happening for us, like not to us, but for us. And you look at some of the things that she has shared publicly that she's gone through, all forms of abuse, all forms of, you know, really things that she probably considers mistakes in past relationships. I mean, we all go through these things, and I think learning to first recognize the meaning that we're giving them and the role we're gonna let them play in our lives. And here's what I found too, Matthew, is that so often the things that we have gone through become the things we make it through. And then once we can recognize that, A, the things we make it through can be the things we help other people make it through. and all of a sudden those things that were so hard and we were, we would never wish on anyone else or things that we regret, right? We are now helping other people make it through and now we're finding a deep sense of purpose in them, which is beautiful. But also, I think it's all about, you know, going, okay, it's all about deciding the meaning we want to attach to them in our lives and deciding that we are not our past mistakes because we are not. there's no human being alive that does not have past mistakes and failures and regrets. Most people don't share them, but there is not another human being alive who doesn't have those things and they do not define your worth at all. And so being, you know, cognizant of if you've let them define and take root in your identity is really important, but they have likely become labels that we think are permanent. And what is true is with the right tools, like many of the ones I share in the book, Worthy, many of the tools Matthew teaches, you can literally take those labels that you've put on yourself, whether they are made too many mistakes, you know, shameful, all of these labels, and they are actually like post-it notes with light adhesive, and they are removable. and you can replace them with new empowering labels. And, you know, what I think is so important is what you called out that Ed Myette shares. And this is for every single person, whether you are in a relationship right now or looking to looking for a new relationship or wherever you're at in that journey, that how you said what Ed had described about how in the world of sales, people don't need to believe that, you know, in what you're selling, but they need to believe that you believe in what you're selling. And this is why us trying to fix all the outside stuff never works, because we can do all the things we think we need to look like to attract a partner. We can do, we can say all the right things. We can package ourselves all the right way, but you cannot fake authenticity. And if underneath all of that, you don't believe you are lovable as you are. That other person, whether it's a friend or anyone else, is going to sense that and that's where the real work is. Learning to unlearn all those lies that lead to self-doubt and learning to truly embrace your worth, that you are fully worthy. One of the biggest lies is that my past mistakes somehow define my worth and they do not. Another big lie is my weight determines my worth. And right now, you have 89% of girls and women opting out of meaningful activities, including interaction with loved ones, including putting themselves in social activities because they don't like how they look because of this lie. Like they're literally waiting on their weight to live their best life. It's a whole big lie to unlearn. There's so many of these lies that impact us. And it would have been very easy and almost feel proven and true if I would have said, oh, I've had hundreds and hundreds of rejections and painful ones. I had Matthew, oh my gosh, like a few years into our business, I got a call from a potential investor and I thought, oh my gosh, this is going to be huge if they invest in our company, we're not going to go bankrupt. Maybe they'll help get me into all these stores that are telling me no. and my husband and I started doing meetings with this private equity company and they were going so well and we went to meeting after meeting after meeting. We eventually got to the final meeting and I thought, oh my gosh, okay, I know all these other people have rejected me, but I know our product is so good. I really believed in our product and I really thought if he invests in me, it's going to be my Knight in Shining Armor. This is going to be everything. We're not going to go bankrupt, all the things. and it got down to the final meeting and this guy was about three feet from me in person. His whole team was there and he says to me, congratulations, you should be really, really proud of this product, but it's a no, we're gonna pass on investing in it cosmetics. And I said to him, okay, can you tell me why? Because feedback is usually a gift and I was like, can you tell me why? and he got really, really, really quiet. And he says to me, he's three feet from me in person, and he said, my husband's right on the other side of me. And he says to me, I just don't think women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight. And when he said those words, I actually never got mad at him, but it was like a lifetime of body doubt and self-doubt like flooded my body all at once. So I actually felt like I was staring my own fear straight in the eye when saying these words to me. But what I will never forget is the moment he said that. I just don't think women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight. I got this feeling deep down inside, like in my gut, like my knowing, my intuition that said he's wrong, like this feeling, like I felt it like he's wrong. And I then went out in my car and cried all the things. I did not hear from him again for another six years. And in the sixth years of building at Cosmetics, those words he said to me that were so hurtful, they were so easy to come back in my head, right? Anytime I got another rejection or anything, and anytime I was tempted to change who I am, there were thoughts I have like, oh, maybe I just need to get really thin or change who I am. But it's like, I know you cannot fake authenticity. I know you cannot have an authentic relationship with another human being. whether it is a friend, a partner, your customers, unless you are fully who you are. I know that, but it's hard to lean on that when we feel like everyone's telling us who we are is not enough for them over and over and over. And here's what I leaned on in those times, because every single one of us, whether you practice a faith or you meditate or you believe the universe always has your back, I believe every one of us has a knowing. I believe when we get still and, and, and, and tune into our knowing, you will know that you are fully enough, exactly as, as your creator made you. You have everything you need inside of you. You do. And you are uniquely beautiful. Like, there is only one of you in the entire universe. Right? And, and, and so, of course, not everyone's get you, you're the first and only ever you, like they've never seen another you before, but you have to be who you truly are. Or what will happen is you tell yourself you're not enough and just like the Ed Mylett example, you then meet someone who senses that inside you don't think you're enough, you don't believe who you are is enough to be who you are, right? And then that barrier of disconnection comes up. And so in that moment when that guy said that, to me. And I got that feeling that knowing that he's wrong, like that I'm supposed to be who I am fully. And when I look back in that moment, that feeling I got right, that said he's wrong, like I know what really happened in that moment was, okay, this guy gave me another no, but God gave me a knowing inside, like that I'm supposed to keep going. I'm supposed to be doing this thing. And so often our lives come down to which one we listen to. Do we listen to the no's? or do you listen to the knowing? And so often we're the ones telling ourselves the most painful no's in our own head all day long. But our thoughts is where our self-doubt lives. That is not the truth. That is not our soul or our knowing, right? And so that's a whole other challenge is not listening to the no's we're telling ourselves, instead listening to that knowing of your truth, which is you are fully worthy of love. and belonging exactly as you are. And by the way, had I changed who I was, had I gotten the goal, let me just lose a bunch of weight, let me just show up how this guy thinks I need to be, let me fit the part he's saying will make money. And if I had changed who I was, I could have never ended up connecting with the right people and building a billion dollar business, right? And because you cannot fake authenticity and my hope and prayer, by the way, is that everybody listening to this who's tempted to show up as someone other than who they are realizes the things we think are odd or quirky or wrong with us, they are the things most right with us. They are the things that are our superpower and we will find a partner who appreciates those. And you don't want to be in a relationship and be someone you're not because you won't ever feel real love anyway. You'll feel more loneliness than ever. and really fast for anyone who's ever seen the movie Pretty Woman. So I didn't hear from that guy for six more years. Six years later, L'Oreal bought our company for $1.2 billion cash. And because they are a public company, I did not know this till the night before that they were going to disclose the purchase price. And it was everywhere, Matthew. It was the homepage of the Wall Street Journal. It was everywhere. And that was the first time I heard from that potential investor in over, you know, over six years. And he reached out and said, congratulations on the L'Oreal deal. I was wrong. And in the movie, Pretty Woman, I don't know if you remember this part where she like goes in the store and they wouldn't help her. And then she like goes back a few days later. So what I wanted to say to him was, big mistake. Huge, huge. I can give you 1.2 billion reasons why it was a huge mistake, but I didn't, I kept it classy because I wouldn't have wanted to be him. But when we talk about reframing, right? When you talk about if it would have been, it should have been, like when I talk about how this idea that God will hide your value from people, who are not assigned to your destiny. These reframes that I go into on how to do in worthy at such a granular level, even for rejections of your past to revisit them and read, they're so important because in that journey, right, of six years of that me being tempted to replay those words he said in my head, then think I'm not enough and change who I am and think it's never gonna work. It's like, okay, no, I'm gonna assign a meaning to that painful rejection. And I'm going to tell myself in that case, okay, rejection is God's protection, right? Because the rejection is the universe's protection. I'm going to choose to believe it. You can say, I'm going to choose to believe things are happening for me. This is hard to do in the moment. Our human nature wants to be like, oh, yeah, there's proof. I'm always rejected. I'm a reject. This is never going to work out. This is my 300th rejection. And I could have easily done all those things. and they would have been true. They would have been true. And just learning some of these tools and these shifts, right? Because everything is the meaning we attach to it. And so for six years, I'm telling myself, okay, you know, God hid my value from him because he's not assigned to my destiny. Rejection is God's protection. Like all of the tools. And then six years later, I look back now. oh, my gosh, Matthew, it's like, thank God he didn't believe in me, because if he did, first of all, I was so desperate at the time, I probably would have given him the majority of the company for, like, no money. But second of all, I probably would have started changing who I am because he would have been the key advisor telling me, okay, well, now I'm the investor. Here's what you need to do to make money. And I probably would have ended up living inauthentically, and probably the business would have never become a huge company because it wouldn't have connected authentically with customers. And so I believe those things that sometimes people go, oh, they're just positive thinking. It's like, no, there are meanings we can attach to the situation in our life that are true, that we can choose to believe are true, and they will shape our destiny, and they will shape what we believe and then what we attract as well. Right? Because the amount we love ourselves and believe in ourselves is also, to your point earlier, what we put out there and what we attract. So I hope that gives hope to anyone feeling like maybe they've been in a long season or a multi-year or multi-decade stretch of things not going their way. I just, yes, that might be true and I do not know. I know very few people who have built huge businesses or, you know, or, or, or, you know, achieved great feats in their life, even in the world of relationships, who have not gone through that. It's just you don't see a lot of people talk about it. So we think there's something wrong with us or that, you know, we're the ones flawed or this only happens to us. But, but it doesn't. That is not true. And I just don't believe other people's rejections or our own failures are any indication of what's to come. I do not believe that. I will not accept that. I hope someone stops accepting that today, too.

Jamie, it's so lovely listening to you. And I know people will have gotten so much out of this. And there's it. You know, this is such a deeply, deeply important subject that you have chosen to take on. and not an easy one, right? Because when you write a book on worthiness, you come up against every excuse everyone ever has as to why they're not worthy. And our excuses around that are very compelling. So the work you've done here is so important. I think it's going to be a beautiful thing for you to put out in the world. You must be so incredibly, incredibly proud. And I can't wait to get the chance to go through it myself. It also, by the way, for anyone, who hasn't looked this book up yet. It has probably one of the coolest looking covers I've ever seen on a book. This is a beautiful book. But the book is called Worthy: How to Believe youe Are Enough and Transform youm Life. Simple Steps, Life-Changing Results. Please go and grab a copy. Go check it out. and grab one for anyone in your life who is also struggling with feelings of worthiness. And who can't you say that about? So, thank you so much for your time.

Thank you so much, Matthew. Yeah. You know, two things. I'm donating 100 of the proceeds from the book. But to your point, it's like, who does not need to learn to believe they're worthy? I just want to show you this fun thing in the book, just because it's just coming out this week, which I'm so excited, but I did this library card. Do you remember like these old school library cards?

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

I did that in the back of the book because I literally am imagining like every girl, every woman, every person, when they get their copy of Worthy, like when you get through it, write your name in the back of the library card, then give your book to another person who you know, oh my gosh, if they learn to believe they are worthy, like I just, Matthew, I just think about the businesses that will be launched and the ideas that will be shared and the unhealthy relationships that will end and the healthy ones that will be initiated. I'm just so fired up about it. It's the best work of my life for sure. Because it's true. We don't get what we want. We get what we believe we're worthy of in life. It's changed my whole life, learning to believe I'm worthy. of the things that I want and hope and dream for because most of my life I did not believe I was. So this for me is the biggest journey. It's such an honor to share this with you and also just have this conversation and also just to honor the beautiful work you put out into the world and just you and who you are and how congruent you are. You know, when I talk about you can't fake authenticity, just having the gift of meeting you and just a room of friends and kind of getting to know you not online but in real life and seeing like, oh my gosh, okay, this is why he's so successful because you're exactly the same way in real life as you are online or anywhere else and it's that congruency that people sense and connect with and so it's just an honor to celebrate and honor that in you and also just have this amazing conversation today. So thank you so much.

That means a huge, huge, huge amount to me, Jamie. Thank you and keep me up to date with how else we can support you in getting the book out there because I want as many people to get this as possible and check it out for themselves. So let us know how else we can support you. But I hope we can speak again soon in public. I know we'll speak again soon in private, but I hope we can speak again soon for everybody. Thank you, everybody out there for listening to this episode of the Love Life podcast. Go check out the book worthy in your local bookstore or on Amazon or wherever you get your books. And also, if you get the book, post a story and tag us, tag me, we'll reshare a few of those. Let us know that you got a copy, all right? And tag Jamie too. Jamie, what's your Instagram?

Yeah, @jamiecuranlima. So @jamiecuranlima. Yeah, tag me, I will repost it. We're gonna celebrate everyone from Love Life who shares it. And then tell us how it's impacted your love life too.

That would be great. We'll do some crossover stories. Thank you, Jamie. Thank you, everyone. I'll see you in the next episode of Love Life.