How To Keep Desire With Someone You're Dating

Welcome everybody to another Love Life podcast with me, Matthew Hussey and my brother, Stephen Hussey. What's going on, bro?

Hello everyone. Hello listeners. Hello Matthew. Yeah, I feel like it's been a while since we've actually caught up, Matt. How you doing?

It's March. What on earth?

I thought that earlier and I realized, you know, I wanted to get through winter and then I thought, oh, it's kind of gone.

Yeah.

It's kind of gone already.

Yeah, it is crazy. This year is going at a rapid rate, but a lot of exciting stuff coming up we'll talk about today, including our topic of the day, which is how to get someone excited about you in the early stages of dating. And we're going to be piggybacking off of an article that Esther Perel wrote and a video she made about the things that she was interestingly talking about the context of a relationship and what makes people feel drawn to their partner in a relationship. But we're actually going to take what she said and we're going to apply it to early stage dating and make a case for the fact that the four secrets she mentioned are just as applicable to early stage dating. So I think you're really going to enjoy this episode, everyone. I look forward to reading your reviews at the end of it. I want to very quickly read an iTunes review from Erica who said, Absolutely love this podcast. This podcast has been so insightful. educational and entertaining. Love the flow of the dialogue on the show and all the helpful advice around dating, relationships, dating psychology and human dynamics as a whole. I love the perspectives you guys share and I've learned so much that I will implement in my future relationship. Thank you so much, Erika. And for anyone out there who wants to leave us a review, we really appreciate them. We do read them. You can go either to iTunes, and leave us a review there. Or you can send us an email podcast@matthewhussy.com is the email address for any podcast related stories, anything, any feedback you want to give us on the podcast, you can send it all there. And I also, before we jump into this episode, just want to let everyone know that if you haven't got this free guide yet, There is something that's downloadable that you can have in your pocket in the next 60 seconds if you go to 9texts.com that is the number nine, 9texts.com Now this downloadable guide gives you nine specific text messages that you can send to anybody to create more attraction with them. And there's different texts for different scenarios. what I love about this guide is that people have said to us for years that what they love about our advice is it's practical. It's not just a bunch of cliches. It's stuff you can actually use. Even Steven, even Drew Barrymore said to me that the thing she liked most about our work was that you could actually apply it. It's actually practical. It's not vague advice. So, in the vein of giving very specific things you can do with someone you like today, and we're all texting a lot, whether we like it or not, we do send texts. So, texts are a great medium to spark attraction. To get these nine texts, go to ninetexts.com Remember, that's completely free. It's just our gift to you today. Dear Podcast Listener. Well, Stephen, this I'm actually very excited about today, this episode, because you know that I've been a fan of Esther Perel for a long time. You have too. I know that she's sort of one of our, she's one of our heroes in the space, isn't she? She's just a heavyweight. She knows what she's talking about. And Esther is very famous for her work, not just as a therapist, but as someone who has written books on the subject of desire within and without of relationships. And the age-old question of how do you maintain desire in a relationship when love is the immediate goal we we desire someone on a date, so we try and get closer to them. And the closer we get, the more the love builds. But the danger is that the love builds to a point of closeness where desire is no longer there. And everyone on some level has probably felt that in a relationship in their past that at one point they had great desire for somebody, and then somehow that desire got suffocated. What Esther explains is that desire exists in the space between two people. Love is the coming together of two people. It's when you close down space. Desire, however, needs space to breathe. The danger, of course, of a relationship is that we spend so much time trying to get close to someone that we forget that the fans of desire, the flames of desire, have to be fanned. So, Esther put out a question to her audience where she asked when people felt most drawn to their partner. And the answers are really, really interesting. I'm going to briefly go over the answers, what the four things were, the four top reasons that people felt, or the four top times that people felt drawn to their partner. But then what I want us to do, Steve, is actually apply this to early stage dating, not just a relationship. So the answers that Esther got, the top four, were I feel most drawn to my partner first when I see them in their element. So seeing someone in their element means watching them or witnessing them doing something that they do really well, whether it's playing an instrument, whether it's doing a certain sport, could be in business, running a company. But when you see them doing what they do at a really high level or an area where it might not even be at a high level, it might be where they're particularly passionate, that is something that can be very exciting and very magnetic.

So is there a time in a relationship where someone did that and you noticed them in that way?

Well.

It'S funny. Audrey, who is my now fiance.

Is.

She'S exceptional with people. you can take her anywhere and she will be liked by the people that she meets because she's got such a giant heart. But it's kind of more than that. She's not just got a big heart. She's also just an incredible listener and someone who really knows how to connect with people. In other words, it's not just that she's kind, it's that she has this wonderful level of competence with people. And that means that when we go somewhere, whether it's a social gathering or a family event, I watch her kind of melt people wherever she goes. And that's a really attractive thing to see. So watching them in watching her in her element when she's great with people. is a, is a really, it's a big turn on to watch her do that so well.

Yeah. Yeah, I can see that. I think watching even just someone really engaged, really engaged in what they're doing, like, just, just loving it. Like, I remember someone, you know, who I was dating was just super into, like, a book and had gotten really excited about it and got loads of ideas and was, you know, you know, scribbling away and, you know, talking about all these things. It was like sparking for her and just seeing someone super into something and loving it. It's something about the fact. Is it something about the fact that it isn't to do with you? Ironically enough, it isn't to do with the relationship. It's something about this is an independent passion they have.

Yes, I think that's true. I think it's a. It's something that's outside of you, which makes it. It's, you're able to observe them when they're doing it without having any pressure on yourself. That's one thing. So you're not in any way in that moment a source of their happiness. It's just you're able, when you're no longer a source of someone's happiness in that moment or the primary source in that moment because of where their attention is, you have no pressure of performing or of trying to be a great partner. You're, you're free to just observe them. And, and in some ways, sometimes even be, and I mean this in a positive way, a little intimidated. Or if intimidated is too negative of a word for people, you're able to just feel like almost a sense, a hint of competition of, oh, there's something else in their life that I'm competing with for. attention from my partner because there's something else that gets their attention. There's something else that they love. And I think that that's very sexy. And, and it's also, that can create a nice amount of tension.

Yeah.

And also just, just seeing someone when, when we watch someone in their element, especially if they're doing something they do well to watch. them be confident, which may not be the case everywhere else. Confidence is often area specific, at least on a certain level. On the retreat, we talk about the three levels of confidence. On the deepest level, it's not area specific in our lives, but on the lifestyle level, the middle level, it's very much area specific. So we could be confident in one area of our lives and not in another. Well, If we see our partner in areas where they're not so confident, it's not that there's anything wrong with that, but the contrast of then seeing them in an area where they're on fire is a massive turn on.

Yeah.

It's a very magnetic thing to be a part of.

Yeah, I had a good moment where, so just because we had an event on that day, Matt, I remember me and you were speaking on stage in London and My girlfriend came in, my girlfriend of the time, a few years back now, came in and watched from the back for like the last 25 minutes. And afterwards she said like, it was, I've never seen you doing that. Like it was super attractive. It was really attractive watching you like hold an audience's attention and making them laugh and, you know, us together. And so it was why a little cheat code thing of being like, well, she's going to see me on stage in front of like a hundred people. But it was a moment where she said, like, wow, watching you just do that and have fun on stage was so attractive.

And I think, you know, I, I mean, I as your brother have felt your magnetism when I watch you on stage. You know, there's times where on the retreat you get on stage and I'm just proud. I'm like, whoa, you know, you like, look at, you know, look at what he's doing up there. That's amazing. And look how good he's gotten at this skill. So I even feel that as a brother, so for someone that you're dating or in a relationship with to see that is going to have an even more magnetic effect. Now, Stephen, in this particular one, you know, what I said at the beginning of this podcast was I wanted to make a case for the fact that all of these are not just important and we're going to go through the next three, there's four in total. But I wanted to make a case that all of these are just as important and practically applicable in the dating phase of knowing someone, not just in stoking desire months or years into a relationship. So, You just brought up one way that for you, if you were dating someone, you could make someone, you could benefit from this draw of someone seeing you in your element by inviting them to an event or allowing them to see you on stage, which, by the way, someone could equally get if they just watched you on the podcast, you know, on YouTube in one of our videos or heard you on the podcast. Someone could get it even from that. did you have any other examples that you had mulled over in terms of how this first one, seeing you, seeing someone in their element could be applied to early dating when you're getting to know someone?

Yeah, I honestly think it can be any external thing that you have passion and curiosity about. So if you are even, you could even be with your partner one day. and if you got your yoga mat out and did a yoga session that you just got some session up on YouTube and doing yoga, if it's something you know and enjoy and, you know, just seeing like, oh, like, there's a very big difference between it's fun if we just sit and loaf around and have a joke together, but it is one thing to be like, oh, I want to go do my 20 minute yoga session. I'm gonna, like, do that and just watching you really engage with that. or if you're artistic, you're writing, you're doing something like painting or, you know, whatever, it might be that you are really into a book and you want to talk about it, or there's a thing you want to show your partner, like, you've got to come see this. I love this gallery, this exhibition, this talk, like, and, and you're talking to the people there or learning about it. You know, just seeing that is very, very powerful. You could go on a hike with someone. And the fact that you love hiking and you know, you make a thing of it and you kind of have a plan for it. Again, it's just like this is them doing their thing and I'm getting to watch them do their thing. It's it doesn't have to be some grand accomplishment.

Yes. And I remember in my relationship getting that effect just from going to the gym. with my at the time girlfriend. You know, that just watching her in the gym because she was capable and because even little things like her form was good in the gym. She had good form and she was coordinated and just capable and even just pushed herself. Like I watched a side of her come out because she pushed herself in that environment. I remember finding that sexy being like, oh wow, she doesn't just give up on the eighth rep. She actually pushes herself past her comfort zone and thinking that was really attractive. So it doesn't have to be something where you're a professional. You don't have to be a professional snowboarder and have them come and watch you do your thing. You can do something that's a hobby that you've, you know, even as you said, Steve, in the yoga example, if you're just a bit further ahead than him or if you're flexible and he's like, Whoa, that's amazing. I didn't realize, you know, I didn't realize you've actually gotten pretty good at this. Now, you in your head might be like, well, I'm terrible compared to the people that I go to yoga with. You know, I'm nowhere near the level that I want to be. That doesn't matter. He's seeing you do something that you've spent some time doing or some time practicing. So what this brings up for me as a concluding point before we bring, go on to number two, is it necessitates at times being a bit of a leader in early dating, not a follower. Because if you always follow them to the plans they make, then you're always ending up in their world. Right now, it might be that, like in the example I used earlier, if you're great at socializing and they get to see you do that really well, then even in his world. you can show yourself in your element. But by taking on some leadership early on in dating, in other words, planning a date that in some way has you doing something that you do feel confident doing together, like a gym date is a great date. Like, hey, I'm not saying as a first date or a second date, but it could be at the very least after a few dates, if you invited someone to like, hey, you want to do a workout together? I feel like that'd be fun. If you know you can hold your own, and that's something that's going to be like a moment of him seeing you in your element, then that's great. But it requires you to make a suggestion. It requires you to plan a date around something that you know is going to show you in that light. And also, of course, sometimes it can just be showing them a video of you doing something in your element, or a picture or whatever. It doesn't always have to be a living, breathing moment with a person. It can just be evidence of something that you do that puts you in your element. But I do like the idea that in the early stages of dating, this requires a little more leadership than just following someone into their world. Bring them into your world where sometimes they're in deep water and you're the one who knows how to swim.

The only thing you want to see is what does this person care about or what moves them? what excites them, what lights them up. That's what I'm often looking for when I meet someone new or if I'm dating, I'm like, what makes this person tick? What's the thing they're kind of a bit crazy about or obsessed with? And that's when you see them shine.

Well, let's move on to number two. The second thing people listed is one of the top four reasons why they're most drawn to their partner is when they are away. when we are apart and then reunite. So the idea of being apart and then reuniting some cliches, perhaps all cliches are a cliche for a reason. The cliche of absence makes the heart grow fonder. I've thought a lot about that phrase. What does it actually mean? absence makes the heart grow fonder. Well, when we get space from someone, we have the ability to a experience what it's like when their light isn't shining on us, which means two things. One, we're feeling the absence of that light. We're feeling the absence of that energy in our life. So, there's a loss there, but there's also the knowing that it's going somewhere else. That something or someone else or many other people are getting that light. And that in some way makes us want to reclaim that light, albeit, you know, there's unhealthy ways of looking at that. But there's also just a healthy way of like, oh, I want to, you know, the person I'm with, their light is going everywhere else but me. I want to reclaim it. I both miss it and there's at times a hint of jealousy or of, oh, I want it, you know, I want that light to be on me again. Again, I'm talking in a healthy way. I'm not talking about unhealthy attachment here. I'm talking about a hint of it that can create some tension and excitement, but it also gives us a chance.

To.

Newly appreciate and think about our partner in ways that are hard to think about them when they're around. In other words, when our partner is with us, we are experiencing the moment we're in with them. Now, that's not to say we're not in our head about something or other or past or the future we can be, but we're so busy being in the conversation we're in with them in that moment, watching the movie we're watching, having dinner with them, experiencing the actual moment we're in, that we don't actually have time to think about them abstractly, to think about them from the outside. And when we can think about someone from the outside and not in their presence, we're. We're able to think about the full context of. Of time, past moments we've had with them, especially when we missed them. We might start to think about past moments we've had. We might start to think about memories that we get nostalgic about things that we want to recreate. We may get excited about the future with them in a way that we don't always think about when we're being busy in the moment with them or when just the responsibilities of being together, you know, are taking Center Stage. Oh, we need to do this. Oh, we need to pay that bill. Oh, we need to make that phone call we said we'd make. We need to. When we're apart, we just get to think about that person as a as a person and, and think about our moments with them or the moments we want to have, the moments we haven't had yet. We get to think about all of the qualities we really appreciate about them, especially with the loss of them in that moment. We, we do really connect to them.

So.

I am interested, Steve, you know, in the context of a relationship, this this means to me that it is important to engineer time away from your partner. Now, that doesn't have to be weeks or months. It could be a weekend. It could be a day. It could be a couple of hours where you go and see your friends. It can even be an hour when you're in the next room making a phone call or having something, you know, having conversation or being lost in an activity that has nothing to do with them. Sometimes you could be in the same house as someone all day, but if they're in the other room doing their thing, absorbed in their own world, when you see them again, you feel like you're reuniting at a certain point in the day.

Yeah, yeah.

What I'm curious about is how you feel, Steve, about this in early stage dating. I have my thoughts, but what do you think about how this applies to the early stages of dating?

I think there's a thing we've written about before that I think is relevant here, where we talked about the difference between being an everyday movie or the exciting one-off show, like a concert, you know, that you're excited to go to.

So explain what that means, Steve.

So the everyday movie is the thing that's always there. You can go anytime. You can just stroll down to the cinema. and go and see that movie 'cause it's got like 10 showings today. And the one-off concert is a thing.

So this would be like James Bond has just come out in the cinema and it's playing 10 times a day. And if you missed this showing, you can literally go to the next one. If you missed that one, you can go to the next one. And if work is really dragging on today, you could just keep pushing it back and back and back until you're ready for it, knowing that whenever you're available, That movie will be available.

Exactly. I know Batman is out right now, the Robert Pattinson one. I know I want to see it, but I just keep, every day goes by, I'm like, it's there, it's there. Whenever.

And by the way, Steve, that gets, that effect is even more pronounced once it leaves the cinema and goes to streaming. 'Cause once it, there are movies I desperately have, I've like said to Jameson, we have to go and see that movie while it's out of the cinema. And then as soon as it goes to streaming, like a year can pass.

Right.

And I don't watch it because it suddenly loses a bit of its, it loses a bit of its shine knowing that, well, I can literally just watch it anytime now that it's on Amazon, on Netflix or whatever. There's no rush.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

So this would, just to clarify, that would be the equivalent, Stephen, of someone who anytime you pick up the phone, anytime you wanna see them, anytime you at the very last minute say, are you around right now? You're met with someone who's just always available. So you come to learn in the dating process that they are just available whenever you want them.

Yeah, exactly.

And in that being the case, you lose any sense of urgency about seeing them, right?

Yeah, and maybe they just don't make any other plans at all. whenever you're together, they just, you know, that's all you do and they drop other plans for you. And this isn't about game playing or manipulation or engineering certain fake situations, but I think just the sense of feeling like there's times where because they've got their life and I've got mine, they're gonna be doing their thing. They're gonna, even if they were like, I'm gonna go to a coffee shop and do some work for two hours and you were doing something else, you would miss them and you would then enjoy the fact that like, but we're gonna get together for dinner later or afterwards. So I'll see you in a couple of hours. You would look forward to that reuniting already. And just knowing that it's just seeing that there's a value to their time. It's seeing that it means something that they're spending time with you. You know, they, they have other things they care about. They have other things that you know, take their attention now and then. But then, you know, when you're spending your great time together, you appreciate it even more. You enjoy the ebb and flow of they're gone. I missed them for two hours now. And now I get to hear from them again.

Well, this is, this is one of those areas where it really is important to be wary of your instincts. We're always told to trust our instincts, but. Our instincts can be very dangerous when we're in the early stages of dating and we really like someone, when we're really smitten and we're having a great time. Our instincts tell us, you should not go to work for the next week. You should just stay in bed with this person for the next seven days.

Who needs income anyway?

Right, I have love.

I don't need any of that shit anymore.

Yeah. Yeah.

Why do I.

Why do I. Why do I need to buy a virtual reality headset? Why do I need that money? Why do I need rent and food and friends?

Friends suddenly feel so overrated. I have everything I need in these four walls. As long as we have access to some kind of food delivery service, we have everything we could ever want. Now, that is a very real feeling. It's a very real impulse. And we've all felt it. What's important is that we look at what's good for the relationship that I would like this to become, not what feels good in the moment all the time. That's not to say that you can't enjoy what feels good in the moment. It's just that sometimes what you believe would be best for the relationship you'd like this to become has to take precedent over doing what feels best right now because they're not always the same thing. And anyone who just says, Matt, I don't, I just don't, want to do that. I'm a kind of follow my heart kind of person. If it feels good, I want to do it. Well, you don't apply that to working out, do you?

Right. I.

Most days, I do not feel like going to the gym or. Or Jiu Jitsu. I just don't. Most days, as I'm about to leave, my brain is looking for excuses. it will take. And it will try to take anything. Anything. It'll be like, oh, I I. You know, I didn't get a lot of sleep last night. I don't know if this is a good idea. Come to think of it. Like, it will really. My brain is a heat-seeking missile for anything that can allow me to do what feels best in the moment. Now, I know what's ultimately going to feel best is the feeling I get when I leave the gym. but what feels best right now is to not do it, to stay at home. So we don't, we know that there are areas of our life where, as Jordan Peterson put it, we can trade with reality, right? We get to trade with reality, which I think is kind of a nice phrase. We get to trade comfort today for fulfillment tomorrow as one example. And we also get to trade the you, the drug fueled in Euphoria of being in someone's company for the third night in a row tomorrow night for a little bit of mystery that gets created by seeing our friends on that third night. or by going and doing a class that we already missed yesterday because we were seeing this person. And what that does in early stage dating, and this is very, very important, speaking of Esther Perel, she talks about a kind of attraction plot line. that there's an attraction plot line that we are building story in early romance.

Well.

Part of the attraction plot line is imagination. What's pretty cool about attraction that works in our favour. Sometimes we do way too much heavy lifting. Sometimes we think that the way to get someone the most attracted is just to not leave their side. But actually, it doesn't have to be that much effort. If you go and spend an amazing night with someone and then you do your thing for the next couple of days, those next couple of days, his imagination will do the work for you. Because when someone is thinking about they've had the best time with you, that was so exciting. They start thinking about you. They start processing what it would be like to see you again. They start projecting what you must be like in other areas because you were so exciting in this area. They start projecting future experiences. So it's a very power imagination is a very powerful force in early stage attraction.

So true.

And, and that mystery is kind of baked in in a, in a way that it's not in a relationship. and it has to kind of be a sense of mystery has to be nurtured within the framework of a long-term relationship, in the paradigm of someone we've been with a long time who we kind of know inside out. Creating mystery is hard. It takes effort. It's something that has to be cultivated. In early stage dating, mystery is, is working for you. It's naturally baked into the equation, but it's not if you don't actually take those moments to separate, to allow mystery to play its role in amplifying someone's attraction toward you. So, as Stephen says, this is not about game playing at this stage. It's not about artificially just saying, Nope, I can't see you because we've seen each other the last two nights, so I'm not going to do that. You don't want to articulate some kind of rule that you've come up with that's arbitrary in your mind because that then makes us look like we're too rigid. And rigidity in that sense is not attractive. We want to have a healthy sense of spontaneity and going with the flow and romance. But it is about keeping the other parts of your life that are important to you in their proper place. So, just because you feel very heady about this person right now, it doesn't mean that working out suddenly isn't important. It doesn't mean your friends suddenly aren't important. It doesn't mean that your familial relationships suddenly aren't important, or that your work, or that your passion project, or that your hobby, or that the the, it doesn't even have to be something that's exciting. It could be, I can't see you tomorrow because I really have to, I have to spend the day clearing out my house for a move. You know, just someone seeing that, that you're willing to respect some other obligation or responsibility you have allows the same thing to happen. So this is very, very important.

Now, is there a Is there a danger here with the advice that you're giving? Because these first couple points that Esther brings up are really creating space and I can see how that space can be very attractive. But in early dating, do you guys worry that if you have a great night with somebody and then you kind of insist on space for the next couple days, might that put you in more of a casual category when you don't want to be in a casual category?

Well, I don't. I don't think it does because you're. Firstly, I'm. I'm not advocating for playing koi. I think that you can get off of a date, a first date, let's say, where you had a great time and text someone and say, I had a really great time. I'd be excited to see you again. You can say that. And when you say that, you're already injecting a sense of romance into the equation. You're not dropping off the radar, in other words, and. And kind of sending mixed signals. If you go on a date with someone and then drop off the radar for the next three days, you're sending mixed signals. If you communicate you had a great time and that you'd be excited to see them again, and you're also communicate, you're communicative in the times where you're apart, even if it's just sending a few messages a day or a couple of messages a day to ask how their day is and let them know what you're up to, then you're showing interest. you're just showing it in the context of having an active life. And I should say there's nothing wrong with. I had such a great time tonight. And he says, I'd love to see you tomorrow night. There's nothing wrong with that. That's why I think we have to be very wary of rules. You don't want to be the person that says, well, I don't have anything going on tomorrow night. I would really like to see you. But I don't think seeing each other two nights in a row is a good idea for attraction. You never want to be that person. But if you notice, you have, you know you feel it. There's a, you know, there is another instinct, an opposing instinct that you start to feel when you've seen someone for multiple days in a row, and your phone is starting to blow up with angry messages from people you haven't gotten back to where you missed another class, where there's work now that's actually, you know, playing on your mind in a scary way because you're getting way behind on things you need to do. That's the point where you have to suspect yourself and say, Am I now seeing this person for the right reasons? Or rather, maybe not, Am I seeing this person for the right reasons?

But.

Is this serving both me and what this can become if I'm already beginning it in a very unsustainable way? And look, to further caveat that, There you're always going to there's just always going to be some level of unsustainability about the way we date someone in the beginning when we're excited and we're all over them and we just can't stop, you know, yeah, you go to.

You go into love love nest mode like that. That's part of the the feeling.

Yeah.

And you do sack certain things off. You do just like, yeah, I know I just want to do this more. And that's okay. I'm not saying none of that's not okay. I don't want to kill romance. I don't want to kill all of that fun. All I'm saying is there is a point at which it's actually part of the fun. Not just I'm not just saying about returning to your obligations or the things you need to do with your life and continuing to nurture other parts of your life, which of course is important. I'm also saying that it's actually an aspect of the fun to part ways for a moment. so that you can think about each other and get excited and then come back again with fresh minds and projections and things that you're excited to learn about that person, having given it some thought. Well, Steve, before we keep going to number three, I want to tell everyone about a program we have that they may not have encountered yet and may not have in their dating arsenal right now. And that program is the Momentum Texts for anyone who is struggling with early stage dating because you're either struggling to get on a date in the first place. In other words, you're sending messages on apps, or maybe you're even meeting people in person and exchanging numbers. but it never leads to a date. Or maybe you go on a date and you don't get the call frequently. Or maybe you're dating someone, but you just don't feel like it's progressing. In all three of these cases, the problem is a lack of momentum. The problem is that the quote relationship Isn't moving forward. It's either not moving forward from texting to a date or from date one to date two or from date 12 to an actual exclusive situation with someone, an actual relationship. The momentum texts gives you 57 specific text messages crafted by me that move the relationship forward in early stage dating. And therefore all different scenarios. And the idea of this was never to be prescriptive. The idea of it was to educate people on the principles of why they keep finding themselves perpetually on the treadmill of dating and never actually making progress and how they can use the attraction principles in their favor that make someone want to progress with you. And the way that we show that is through these messages. Once you know why they work, you can actually adapt them to your voice and situations you're actually in. But you have to know why they work first. And I find that by giving specific examples of texts and things to say, people learn the fastest. If you want to learn a language, being around people who are simply speaking that language is much faster than trying to learn that language in the abstract.

Yeah, and it's so hard to come up with ideas on your own as well when you're just you know, in those moments trying to think of something.

That's right. That's right. This allows people to go on a kind of autopilot in early stage dating so that they're not overthinking everything. So to get that program, go to momentumtexts.com. and the great news for anyone listening to this right now is this is a seven dollar program we have. much greater investment programs than this one. But the momentum texts is, what is that Steve? It's almost the price of a latte these days, $7.

Given bloody inflation rates, yeah, it probably is.

It's a gallon of gasoline here in Los Angeles.

So, there should be no reason why you can't go and grab this program and it will make A measurable difference in your love life right now starting today. So that link is momentumtexts.com Go and check it out. All right, Steve, let's move on to number three. Esther asked the question, when are you most drawn to your partner? The third most popular answer was when they surprise me. So, this is an interesting one. The idea that when my partner surprises me, I feel drawn to them. And actually, Esther writes, this category is the hardest one to recognize because to the question of when am I most drawn to my partner? People don't tend to answer when they surprise me. Answers in this category range from silly to sexy to serious. But the through line is always surprise and novelty. When we go on vacation, she says, is a big one, but so are when she tells a joke I've never heard and when he plays with new style elements in his wardrobe. Sometimes surprise can come from having the same old fight in a new way. weathering the storm together instead of just falling apart. So this is really fascinating, Steve, because what it, what Esther is really describing is a kind of Divergence from the norm that in some ways what we intuitively know about life itself, which is the stasis. is a problem. If we're not growing, then we tend to be unhappy. If we have too much certainty all the time, if things are too familiar all the time, if every day we wake up and everything is the same, we may like that for a little while because we also crave comfort and certainty, but at a certain point that will get old and a relationship is no exception. so stasis can be the enemy. Security is your friend in a relationship. Feeling secure, feeling safe. But security isn't stasis. And this idea of I feel drawn to my partner when they surprise me is a, is a way of, of articulating that novelty, a Divergence from the norm is important. And Esther talks about some very diverse ways. that that can be experienced from a vacation to having a fight in a different way. So what then if we apply that to early stage dating, could that look like? What does surprise look like in early stage dating?

Well, rummaging again through Steve's history treasure trove of dating experience, I do remember I do remember when I was dating someone in London and we, we used to just like do a lot of, I guess we were both a little bit introverted, but we just kind of like hang out together, getting to know each other. Maybe we'd like go to some museum or go and have a restaurant, go to a restaurant. But remember one time we met up with some of her friends and then went to a club and I just like, quite boldly, like I'm not some great dancer, but I just was, went to the dance floor and was dancing and was pretty relaxed about it and, you know, just having fun. We do a lot of dancing on our retreat, Matt, so I'm very used to just deciding to dance in front of a bunch of strangers. It's not a big deal anymore.

You're not a stranger to dancing in front of hundreds of women.

No.

So, so sort of dancing nervousness has sort of been beaten out of my system over the years, but, and she said after, like, she said, like, oh, I haven't seen you. I wouldn't have expected you would just be someone who just gets on dance floor and dances, like, so relaxed or, like, because I'm just an introverted person. I'm, you know, don't come across that way. And she was like, Yeah, she was just really impressed and attracted. She was just like, I saw that and you were more confident than anyone else there of just being relaxed and dancing and enjoying yourself. And I think we've talked about the concept of unique pairings many times and I think it's that thing of that was not something I saw you as being a side to you. I didn't think that would be something you had in you. and there it was. And, you know, it might be the same if you see someone who's quiet and is suddenly very physical. Maybe you see them be a bit competitive. Maybe you see them confidently speak out loud in a group or, you know, like you say, the outfit thing. Maybe they often dress a bit like a slob, and then they're in a suit, and just for one date, they arrive really. polished and done up. And it's like, man, you look good in a suit. I haven't seen you all smart like that. And it's like, yeah, I thought I'd be smart tonight. Like, just keeping.

Keeping people guessing. The one. The one date where they come down to your level where you've been a slob the whole time and you've. You've. You hustle them. Yeah. They suddenly say, well, I'm gonna start wearing sweatpants on the dates because this person is never doing it. And then you show up in a suit.

Yeah, yeah. If it was one where it's just like, we're gonna dress up, we're gonna dress up a bit nice for this date, 'cause I picked somewhere nice and you just like put a little more effort in. I think all of these things, you know, the routine, the thing we just get used to, becomes we know what to expect of that, we know what to make of that, we know where they're gonna want to go, we know they're gonna want to go to that burger place, they're gonna want to do that, go see that movie, or we're gonna go back to theirs and this is what's gonna happen. Just that thing of like, oh, I didn't know we were gonna go do that this weekend. I didn't know you had that in you. I didn't know you were interested in this. You could show that with so many things. We're all multifaceted faceted characters, but I think we get so used to being pigeonholed as a type of person and you know, it's like, and we do it with other people. It's like if you met someone, you'd be like, oh, that's gonna that that that woman has loads of tattoos and that she's gonna be the sort of tattoo hippie woman who's gonna be into lots of this stuff and talk about meditation a lot. But then if they really surprised you by having some other, you know, what would be a sideways thing from that? I don't know.

They voted for Trump.

They want a date at the Republican National Convention. you know, it would. They just had something that was sideways to that, and you'd go, oh, cool. I didn't know you'd be into that.

Or, you know, three words. Three words. I didn't know that phrase is the phrase you should be looking to elicit. I was. I know he's not a popular man to talk about right now, but I was watching the Kanye West documentary Genius. Oh, I enjoyed that on Netflix.

Yeah, it was good.

Yeah, not popular for his love life antics right now, but there's a moment in the first episode where, you know, Kanye in his early days, he was a producer, right? He made beats. for other people. And he was seen as brilliant for that. And other artists loved him. Rappers loved him because he would just supply them with amazing beats that would help them make hits. But he wanted to be a rapper. And one day, you know, he took it upon himself to rap and to prove himself. And so he started writing songs. himself and then rapping over his beats. And when he had his car accident and his mouth was his jaw was wired shut because of the car accident he had, he wrote the song Through the Wire, one of my favorite songs of all time. And there's this moment where, you know, he in this part of the documentary, in this part of his life, he's not being taken seriously as a rapper by anybody. and he goes into the studio and he plays Pharrell, who already knows him as a producer but doesn't know him as a rapper. He goes in and he plays him through the wire. And it's such a brilliant moment because you just watch Pharrell light up and his mind melts. trying to get his head around, wait, wait, this is you. You wrote this, you're rapping here. And it's such a great moment when he pauses the track. He pauses through that, he just stopped. Pharrell pauses the track in the studio and just leaves the studio. He just walks out and walks down the hallway and then comes back again. and he looks at Kanye and he's like, I didn't know. He goes, I didn't know. I'm sorry. I didn't know.

And.

It for me, when you talk about that phrase, I didn't know.

That.

For me is like a, we talk about emotional buttons on the retreat. That's an emotional button. for the impact that you want to have on someone. You want someone you're dating to sometimes, at certain moments, be pharrell to Kanye and be like, I didn't know. That's a really powerful, powerful moment. And that means two things, right? Yes, you can, on one hand, draw from things they don't know about you because we all have surprising sides of us. we're all a dark horse in certain ways, right? It could be that someone realizes you're into a certain set of books that they would never have imagined you'd be into. It could be that you're into a certain kind of art. It could be that you're into a certain sport that they never would have guessed you're into. It could be they get you to the bedroom and they're like, I didn't know.

Sure.

Because of your behavior in the bedroom.

There'S.

There's things you already do well that they just don't know about that you have to Showcase and will carry with them the element of surprise. But there's also just. There's elements where you have to push yourself. It probably wasn't the most natural thing in the world for you in that moment to go and dance, but you, in your mind, you are like, this is. opportunity for me to just be carefree and to show a different side of myself. And so you pushed that extra one or two percent to show that side of yourself that may have been a little scary, may have been slightly uncomfortable, but you're like, no, I'm gonna show a different side to myself here. So to me, the big lesson here is surprise comes from showing different sides of yourself. You articulated that really well, Steve. But sometimes in order to do that, you actually have to push yourself because the very reason that it would be unexpected for them is often likely to be because it isn't entirely natural to you. But just because it's not natural, it doesn't mean you can't be that thing. Sometimes we can show sides of ourself especially when we're creating a new impression with a new person. Don't don't be constrained by who you've been in your life until now. Oh, but I wouldn't dance in that moment. Well, they don't know that. So do you want to be that person now? Because you can be that person now. Oh, I would never just grab someone and start dancing with them to a song. Do you want to be that person now? Because they don't know who you've been your whole life. They don't know. Just like when you go to university, you get to be whoever you want to be today. because no one knows. People aren't here from your high school. This is a new group of people. Who do you want to be for University? Who do you want to be for college? Join a new job at 21 or 25 or 30. Brand new company, new group of people. They don't know what you were like in your last company. Who do you want to be in this company? New relationship. They don't know what you were like in your last five relationships. They don't know the things you struggled with. they don't know the parts of your personality you're still trying to tease out of their shell. So who do you want to be with this person? And that's not about something disingenuous. It's about growth. It's about growth. You can surprise yourself at the same time as you surprise somebody else. All right, let's move on to number four. Steve, can I just stop and say, this is too good to be one podcast.

Splitting it, are we?

I don't know what we're doing, but this is. This is unacceptable. This is an unacceptable amount of value for one podcast.

There we go, guys. We screwed it. Screwed that up, didn't we?

We made it too good. This should be a program. It should be a retreat. It should be this. This shouldn't be a free podcast. It's mental.

That's straight from the horse's mouth as well.

So that's just me channeling my inner Kanye. All right, number four, our final answer from Esther's audience who said the fourth most popular answer for why I'm drawn to my partner or when I'm drawn to my partner. was when I see them through the eyes of another.

So this.

I really believe in this in a relationship because when we spend a lot of time with our person, we get very used to our lens for the way that we see them, for what we have perceived, but what we have perceived isn't necessarily the same as what everyone else has perceived. And there might be wonderful things that other people appreciate about our partner that we either have come to take for granted or haven't seen from that angle because we always get a certain version of them. I always like Steve in our company. I like asking different employees, different staff. what their experience is of another staff member. Because I know I have my relationship with that staff member, but what does somebody else think? And I'll always hear these beautiful answers, oh my God, she is a rock star. Every time I go to her, she has the best energy. You know, she is so great at her job. I love working with her. And I'm like, whoa, you know, that I suddenly have this whole different level of admiration and respect for this person in my own company because I'm seeing them through the eyes of another. Well, the same thing happens in relationships. If we meet, if we learn from someone's mother or their best friend or the people they work with, what's great about them? That's a really powerful thing. I get to see how great my partner is through your eyes and I get to see what you think is great about them, which either validates what I think is great about them, which I think is powerful because it's like, oh yeah, I didn't discover my partner. Turns out they were already awesome. Turns out other people recognize they're awesome. It's not just me. I didn't discover them. They're just awesome. I'm just noticing. Or they'll notice things about your partner that you don't. And you're like, whoa, I didn't even realize. there's a whole other element to my partner that people really appreciate and that becomes really attractive. And of course we can get the effect of seeing our partner through the eyes of another, not just by having a conversation with other people about our partner, but by simply observing our partner in social situations or in a situation with someone we care about where we can physically watch how someone is responding to our partner. If you see your partner telling a story and holding court with a group of people and you see these people really engaged, you're now seeing your partner through their eyes. If you take your partner to dinner and they're looking particularly hot tonight and as they walk across the room, they're getting looked at by other men, that's also a version of seeing our partner through the eyes of other people. You're all of a sudden seeing, what is a guy who's a stranger to my partner? How do they look at my partner? Oh, it turns out they look at my partner with lustful eyes. You know, oh wow, it turns out my partner's really hot. I reconnect with that in that moment. So very, very powerful stuff in a relationship. How does it apply to early stage dating, Steve? What examples have you got of how you can actually make this work for you in the early stages of dating?

Well, I think you've alluded to one there is it definitely is the reason why as much as fun as the love nest might be, you do actually want to go out and do things with someone new, like actually take them to places where there are other people and not to create some jealousy narrative, but to feel the, you know, the eyes of other people, to feel like what it is to be in a room with them and seeing their energy and how it affects others and, you know, taking them to your friends at a point. And I think the key is if you are introduced to someone's friends to be relaxed company where you are okay with, you know, you're not just there as their, like, extra wheel, but you independently have conversations. You know, seeing someone you're really attracted to have a good conversation with your best friend and just seeing them, like, interested or curious and talking, it becomes an attraction. It's like, oh, it's nice to see them actually showing their personality to that person instead of just, like, you're next to me and how do you know Steve? Oh, okay, great. Okay, cool. Anyway, Steve, you know, and they just talk to you, but not to your partner.

And of course, what that also does is if they're not required to participate in the moment, they get to observe the moment. They get enough space and distance from it to be able to just watch someone's reaction to you instead of having the pressure to think about what they're going to say next. so I totally agree. I also think sometimes when you're around people, when, when you bring someone around people that care about you, get out of the frame sometimes. So here's a good rule. If you're with their people, then let then go and interact with their people in a way that they get to watch and feel attracted to. If they're with your people, sometimes go to the bathroom. Because when you go to the bathroom, if you have good friends or if you have like great family, they're gonna do the work for you. You're gonna get out of the frame and they're gonna say things that they would be embarrassed to say if you were there. But with you gone, they're gonna say, he is just the greatest guy, isn't he? She is just the most amazing person, isn't she? Like, you're gonna, you're gonna hear that, they're gonna hear those things about you because you're not there to interrupt it. So don't go to the bar, and don't make it a quick bathroom stop. You know, go for a couple of minutes. Just get out of the shop for a minute and let your PR team do their work.

Let your friends and family big you up a bit or talk about you, because then your partner's like, oh, I like talking about them. You know, they enjoy it when you're not around.

Exactly.

And.

The dynamic of every room changes when someone leaves the room. There's a really important lesson in all dinner parties, in all social situations. It's always fascinating to watch what happens to a room when different people go to the bathroom, because depending who goes to the bathroom, the dynamic changes. It's never the same room. Every person that leaves creates a new room by leaving. So it's what we have to do is play on that effect by leaving the room so that interactions happen about us, without us, that would not happen with us. The last point to be made about this is that we've talked about being around people they care about and being people being around people you care about. This rule also applies, this principle also applies to strangers. There's a reason that having a nice interaction with a waiter, having a nice interaction with someone next to the two of you at a bar, having a moment where you just get to showcase your charisma, your intelligence, your sense of fun, or at the very least your warmth. you get to communicate that to the person you're with by being that way with somebody else. And in doing so, they get to watch how the rest of the world reacts to you. And of course, me talking about going out with them in a place where other people give you some looks is also an example of that. Steve, this has beEn a pretty epic episode. I would love to hear what people think of this episode. Please go to iTunes, leave us a review, let us know, or send us an email to podcast@matthewhussEy.com this email review is from Cindy. She sent an email to podcast@matthewhussEy.com she said, hi Matthew, a few years ago I listened to one of your podcasts it changed my life forever. Your podcasts are really encouraging as they focus on personal growth and not only relationships. And I think what's really interesting about that, Cindy, and I hope you're listening to this episode, is that so much, if not all of what we talked about in this episode, is powerful information for life outside of a romantic context. I was hearing as we were speaking, I was like, man, this is This is great for everything. She says, I'm a very shy person and through your podcast, I was able to step out of my comfort zone and work in China for two years. That's awesome. It was life-changing. Thank you very much. Kind regards, Cindy. I love that we're having an impact on people's lives that isn't as one-dimensional as finding a relationship. I think it's wonderful when people find a relationship through our work. I think it's exquisite when they get all sorts of wonderful results that they never even anticipated when they first came. I would like to say before we go that we do have a level of coaching that is more intimate than the podcast, more exclusive, and more immersive if your love life is a priority for you this year and you want to go beyond listening to content and actually get into a path that is going to give you a blueprint for finding love this year. Please consider becoming one of our Love Life Club members. The entire ethos of this membership is to not only enhance and enrich your love life and get you the result you want there, but also to build your love for life. Because we are believers in this organization that one does not come without the other. The way to feel strong and confident in your love life is not to need someone. It's to be able to come to them with a rich and beautiful life and a true love for life so that then you can be around them in a confident way and you can truly bring your best to the table in a relaxed way. You can join for a two week free membership by going to askmh.com so if you go to askmh.com you can literally join for two weeks for free, test it out, There'll be live coaching webinars with me in that time. There'll be one with Stephen. There will be a chance to view content that's in the membership. You can go to a library of content and find your particular issue that you're trying to deal with and watch a video to solve your issue right now. All of that is in the Love Life membership and we really hope you come and join us. That is the next step from the podcast. So that's askmh.com well, last thing before we go, everyone, the virtual retreat is this weekend, which is unreal that it's come about already. We have more people than ever joining this virtual retreat. We are so incredibly excited. Three days of immersion coaching. Unfortunately, registration is closed for this one. But I want to thank everybody who got in in time and is going to be joining us for this three-day process that is going to transform their lives in every way. For those of you who are curious about what might be round the corner after this, we have a very, very exciting announcement, which is that our in-person Retreat that takes place in Florida that hasn't happened. Since 2019 in October of 2019, Steve, this is like two and a half years ago now. Who would have ever imagined that this program that we ran religiously twice a year would stop for two and a half years? It is happening again in June of this year. In fact, more specifically, it's happening from May the 30th until June the 5th. we don't have any information for you today. We're going to be doing more announcements and providing more information in the week to come. But I just wanted to give you guys an early warning shot that this big thing is happening. And for a very, very special group of people, we're all going to be getting together for six days in Florida. It's like It's like a Matthew Hussey cruise, but on the beach in Florida altogether that transforms your life.

And this one is gonna be rip-roaring because our team literally couldn't be more raring to go. It feels like we're reopening some chapter of our lives that used to happen and somehow they've told us it's coming back again.

Exactly. We cannot wait. It's our big event of the year, so stay tuned for more information on that. Thank you, Stephen, for being here and doing what you do so well in being part of this conversation. Thank you to all of you out there for listening and helping to build the podcast with us. You are giving us more inspiration every week for continuing to build this podcast. Please tell your friends about it, forward the episode to anyone you think it could benefit, and join us again for the next episode of Love Life. Take care everyone.