How to Know When to Walk Away

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

Finding great candidates to hire can be like, well, trying to find a needle in a haystack. Sure, you can post your job to some job board, but then all you can do is hope the right person comes along. Which is why you should try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com Zip ZipRecruiter doesn't depend on candidates finding you. It finds them for you. Its powerful technology identifies people with the right experience and actively invites them to apply to your job. You get qualified candidates fast. So while other companies might deliver a lot of hay, ZipRecruiter finds you what you're looking for. The needle in the Haystack.

See why 4 out of 5 employers who post a job on ZipRecruiter get.

A quality candidate within the first day.

ZipRecruiter the smartest way to hire and.

Right now you can try ZipRecruiter for free.

That's right, free at ZipRecruiter.com Zip that's ZipRecruiter.com Zip ZipRecruiter.com Zip this episode is going to be great for anybody who is struggling with the decision of whether to keep going with someone in early dating who you're finding you're having early disagreements with, you're sensing differences between you. Those differences are making you wonder whether it's really a match, whether you're really compatible. Are you, by continuing with this person, sowing the seeds for future regret and heartbreak and wasted time? Or are you, by letting go of this person being too picky and too demanding and not making space for the differences between you and this person. This episode explores all of that territory and more. We have an amazing caller who calls in to ask about this. We have another segment of Steve Sleeves and a whole bunch more. I think you're really going to enjoy this one. If you're not sure whether someone you're dating is the right person, listen up.

So we had somebody who came to us recently and they were having a disagreement with the person that they were dating. It was quite early stages. I believe it was only like a few weeks into them dating each other, but they, they kept butting heads on the same kind of subject and they kept Kind of having conflict around it. And when she came to us, she said, is this a compatibility issue or is it something that we can communicate and work through? Like, when is it something that we absolutely should just go, like, this isn't going to work and I need to walk away from this? Or when is it just normal in the early stages to have a disagreement like that?

I remember her question because she was saying that they would argue for hours on end in a disagreement.

That's a lot.

Yeah. She was like, we butt heads on something and then we end up in like a five hour, you know, argument.

What's the longest argument you've ever had?

Oh, it'd be multiple days, for sure. I've had one or two, like, volatile relationships.

The arguments drag on for.

It was. Yeah, I. You know, I had someone that, like, when we fought, we fought really badly. You know, I. I don't think I've ever had a relationship where we didn't have disagreements, but in this particular relationship, we fought in in a very kind of toxic way. I'm not saying that was all that person's fault. It was a combination of the two of us that made it that way. And it meant that, like, it definitely brought out the worst in me because it sort of triggered all of my. So it, like, really triggered my ego, but it also triggered, like, massive anxiety in me. So I ended up kind of becoming this person who desperately wanted things to be better again. So I had this, like, combination of pride where I was, like, really kind of felt like I didn't want to, like, lose the argument and felt really mad that this person would turn so cold on me because it would become so cold. But then I. It. The coldness made me feel really, really anxious and I just would. It's like I desperately just wanted things to be okay because I'm not. I. My nervous system is not good with being shut out in that way. You know, I don't like, that's a. I react to that pretty badly, or at least I used to. I'm much better at recognizing that as a kind of not a good behavior today. But I think then I was just like, it would just really, really trigger me. And so it would. I would probably oscillate between, like, very mad and egotistical and then like, very desperate and say anything, do anything to try to make it better.

Yeah.

And that situation, I mean, it could last, like, days. Days of just sitting in horrible energy. Energy, like tortured horrible energy. And then like, the relief when it's better like this just Euphoric kind of relief at, oh my God, we're like on good terms again. We're not fighting anymore.

Have you had ones where early in the relationship you have a disagreement and you've walked away and gone later? Gone. Maybe I was like a bit rash. Maybe I took that too seriously.

Yeah.

Like, is that the kind of, Is there an avoidant thing there where like you get one problem and you're like, well, this isn't going to work?

Yeah. I think you and I were not, at a certain point in our lives, you and I were not great for each other in that respect.

How so?

Because I think Stephen and I were like two sort of enablers. Would you call yourself, Would you say like your historic pattern was sort of avoidant or anxious avoidant? Like, could it be a bit of both?

It could be anxious avoidant, like tilting towards avoidant.

Right. But some, I'm probably anxious avoidant. Tilting towards anxious. But I, like, I remember us having times where like I might vent something to you and there would be a time in our lives where you'd be like, ah, you gotta go. Can't do that, can't be dealing with that. You gotta go.

Asking for advice from 20 year old Stephen for love, life advice, but by the way, are not available.

The other way around would be the same thing. He might tell me something, I'd be like, oh, you gotta go. Can't be dealing with that. So like we would both, if we got stuck in that cycle together forever, we'd just both ensure that neither of us ever found love.

That is so funny.

Yeah, I think that's true. And I think that is something I've had to learn to deal with is to go. That doesn't necessarily mean you're incompatible. It might just be an invocation to solve a problem or it might just need better communication. But it is hard to know sometimes. Is this a sign I should just move on right now? Yeah, like, is this a sign I should just cut my losses and just go, what? Why even pursue this? We have different values. We don't see the same on a key issue. We want slightly different things. You know, even if they just had a different idea of where they wanted to live than you, like, do you go, oh, I'm not going to be up for like, you know, living in that town or living outside this place. I like. But that's kind of what, what they would like to do.

That's very avoidant, Steven.

That's avoided.

That's very avoidant. Yeah, because like you don't know, if I had gone, like, oh, my God, he lives in la. I have no interest in leaving my friends and family to live in la. When I met Matt, then, like, we wouldn't have been together. I'm all about, like, you've got to take things as they come and things will unfold. And if you end up not wanting to move for somebody, for instance, then they're not the right person. But like, you can't write people off for things like that in the beginning, I think. But I'm curious, do you guys know how to actually discern between something that is an actual incompatibility red flag that should be like, okay, we really can't be with, like, I can't be with this person. And actually I'm just going to have this argument for the rest of my life if I stay or something. That is just, you know, the teething period of the early stages of a relationship, which is ultimately two people coming to each other with their stuff and their baggage and their ways of looking at the world. And there's going to be conflict and clashes, I think, in the beginning. So what's the difference? How do you discern the two?

I, I suppose to some extent I would say there are people you just argue better with and you might have had a history of people who, when you disagree and they punish you. Like, I would just that relationship I, I was in, you know, was one where I felt very punished when there was a disagreement. And that was very triggering for me. And that definitely brought out the worst in me. And I definitely was not like I had, I, I was a lot of things that were not admirable in that relationship either.

So I've had those too. So it's not all avoidance, Audrey. No, I've had those too. Where you feel like you're somehow wrong for having a different opinion.

Yeah. And, and, and, and then you kind of can look at those relationships sometimes and go, I'm not, I really don't like who I am in this relationship. I don't like the version of me that's coming out because I, I, I did things wrong as well. So it's like the com, the combination is not good. There are other people that you argue better with. You know, they, you might have, in some ways, you might have the same disagreements about things, but that you're talking to someone who extends you just a little more grace or a little more empathy or a little more kindness in the way that they talk to you or has a lot more humility about the, you know, holes in their own argument. And that can just be the bit of daylight you need to decide to be a better version of yourself in that moment. That was one of the things for me and you that I found about myself was that I, the way that you argued, like, it's not that we never had an argument that I hadn't had in a previous relationship. It was that when we argued, you had a very kind of compassionate and level headed way of. Not always, I mean, but a lot of the time you had a very compassionate and level headed way of coming to the, the, the argument or the disagreement. And I remember having this very distinct thought at one moment where I walked away from a sit, a kind of argument that I had caused because something had upset me. And then instead of like just bringing it up in a rational way, I decided to pick a fight over it. And I remember walking away from that argument going, I'm the one who behaved badly there. Like, I can't. Like, you probably would have walked away from that argument going, that whole thing was really unfair and he didn't see any of my arguments or my points and that was out of order and I'm mad at him, but I walked away. And it took a minute for me for it to land. And I was like, I, I was the, I was the bad, like that was me. I was the one who behaved irrationally in that conversation. And I think when, when that happens, it's an invitation. It's an invitation. Okay, are you going to rise to the best or a better version of yourself here or are you going to be the version of yourself that you may have been in the past, even with a person who's doing better?

I heard advice once which I thought is quite relevant to this and I thought it was really, really useful. And I, I carry it with me in my life. It's like, I think to make a relationship work, you're both gonna, at different times, want different things, believe different things, like, feel really steadfast in an opinion over here while the other person feels really steadfast in their opinion over here. You have to get really good at being like, who does this matter more to? So to give an example, let's say you're arguing because you are incredibly triggered by a political situation. And for you it's just like so unbelievably upsetting what's happening in a certain situation in the world or whatever. And you almost like have so much passion and so much like, you know, like emotion behind that and you bring it to somebody and you end up having a fight about it because maybe you don't agree on something entirely or something like that. I think the person who isn't, like, triggered in that situation, a person who isn't feeling really emotional about it, it's on them to diffuse the situation. Because when arguments really get out of hand is when two people get triggered at the same time and they can't, then you're just fighting a wound. Then it's just two wounds fighting each other. It's not actually the two people consciously having a healthy disagreement. So if you're in an argument with somebody, you know, if you're in early dating stages, anyone listening who's. Maybe you're in a relationship or you're a few weeks into dating somebody and you find yourself in the middle of an argument and you see that the person you're arguing with is. Is incredibly triggered by something, and you're actually able to be the bigger person in the situation. You will be able to diffuse that argument so much faster if you can just almost act as the voice of reason in that. And it's kind of what you're saying with us. It's like in that moment, there would have been something that really triggered you, that led you to pick a fight. And I would have been able to go, well, I'm not feeling triggered. I'm just a bit hurt that you're picking a fight. And I've therefore diffused a situation which then allows you to go away from it, think about it, calm down, and come back and say, I don't like how I behaved. But if you're. If you almost fight a trigger with a trigger, you never get anywhere with it. So it's like the thing that I heard, to paraphrase it, because I've made it a very long convoluted point, but the point I was making is just, you know, assess, if you can, in a situation, whether or not they care about it more than you, and if they care about it more than you, let them have it.

I think what really helps with that is when you have a real sense of what someone's values are already like. If you know deep down that the person you're talking to is a really kind person with a good heart and something has just really agitated them about this specific situation. And you can see they've. They've gotten triggered. Like, I've. I won't say who, but there was someone in. In my life that got very, very triggered recently over something like, you know, like that kind of complete. I Watched it happen. I watched this person lose control of everything. Their voice, their breathing, you know, like their. Their rationality. Because they got so triggered by something. And it was like, at that point, it was like a full body takeover. And in that moment, I very quickly recognized this person who is lovely and kind and has a beautiful heart right now has been completely hijacked by something, by a visceral fear, by a visceral emotion that's turned into anger and righteousness, all of whatever. And I remember thinking, I can't. I'm not going to speak to the rational part of them right now. I can't. They're lost. I have to connect with the fact that this is actually someone I really care about. This is someone I love. And. And right now I just have to soothe that child that has completely lost it. And once you do that, it's like that rationality and that sense can come back in that person, but in that moment, they're just hijacked. They're completely hijacked. And the reason I'm saying that is because it's far easier to do that when you already know someone's intentions. I think one of the things. And when you know someone, someone's heart and you know their values, the hard thing about early dating is when that happens to someone or when they get agitated by something, and when you end up in a kind of, you know, charged disagreement or fight, you don't always feel like you are confident of their values. And it. Therefore, you don't know if what they're saying or what they're doing is an indication of the fact that they don't have good values or whether they've just been hijacked in this moment by fear, by jealousy, by, you know, anxiety about.

Or if it's like a behavioral pattern.

Or if it's a behavioral pattern. And that. And by the way, that's. The other thing is you asked, you know what I think you are some version of, like, what differences can you overcome? And to some extent, I think an answer to that question, it's not the only answer, but an answer to that question is what differences do you have the patience for? Because there are some differences you have, or not even differences, there are some areas of difficulty in that person that you have the patience for because you're just like, I get it. I get you, I see you. I get where you're coming from. I know where that comes from for you. I have a lot of patience for this particular wound in you or this particular behavior in you. And by the way, I'm not there mandating a kind of masochism in relationships because some people have too high a tolerance for pain in relationships when they shouldn't. But there are, like, we all come with stuff. No one's perfect. Everyone comes to a relationship with stuff. And it kind of. To some of it comes down to, like, what do you have patience for? I have loads of patience for the kinds of things that affect you. Because I. Partly, maybe because I see part. Some of myself in those things, partly because I love you and because I also understand so much about you and so I connect with those parts of you. But I have a lot of patience for them. I can think of situations like in my past where I didn't have much patience for something. Now sometimes that was because I was young and selfish and just couldn't make space for someone in a relationship. And there's a lot of people like that who just. They say they want a relationship. They have no real ability to make space for another whole human being and the kinds of things they bring. But other times, I know I. I didn't have the patience just because it wasn't right for me. Like, I. An example would be like, you and I did not align on everything in terms of the way we saw the world or politics or things like that. There were certain areas where we had friction when we would debate it out. But because you and I had a kind of openness about us, even when we were kind of going at it, there was a humility to both of us where we were. We ended up both being capable of, like, seeing each other's points of view. If I know myself well enough to know that if, like, I had started dating you and you were, like, viciously aggressive about your opinions in certain ways and had no tolerance for even hearing other points of view and immediately got angry with the idea that I thought differently. Like, I think I would have just been like, I don't. I actually don't have the patience. Yeah, for this, someone else might have the patience. They might be able to laugh it off and be like, oh, you know, I like this fire in her. I like this thing. You know, someone else might have a higher tolerance and that, that's fine. But for me, I think, because I really value humility and I really value people who are open to conversation and people who don't just jump down each other's throats all the time. Like, I think for me, that would have been like a. It wouldn't have been a deal breaker in life for that person's character. It just would have been a deal breaker for me in terms of being like, I think this is going to be an exhausting life and I don't want to sign up for this forever. I just think it will be exhausting for me. Have you ever had an amazing session with a therapist or a coach, or even just an incredible conversation with a friend where you started feeling really sad about something or struggling with confusion or not knowing how to respond to a situation and then by the end of the time you spent with that person, you felt a sense of relief, a sense of clarity, and you knew exactly what to do next. And in that moment, you had an enormous sense of gratitude that you were able to have that conversation in that way. I have always been the most grateful for those conversations in my life because they've been truly, truly life changing for me. They prevented me from making bad decisions, they've allowed me to get out of my head and my emotions and they've given me the opportunity to respond to situations better. That's why I created Matthew AI because when you have an amazing coach and I believe wherever you can get access to the best, you have someone who gets you in a state of making the best possible decisions. And Matthew AI is designed to do three things. One, help you craft the perfect response to any situation you're in, to help you decode any situation you're in if you're confused about what something means or what someone's behavior indicates about their level of interest or what you should do next. And three, help you get out of a triggered state because people's actions often trigger us. And it's when we're triggered, when, when we're anxious or mad or upset that we're liable to make a mistake that has a sabotaging the whole thing. Matthew AI is the equivalent of you and I sitting next to each other on the couch and you telling me exactly what you're struggling with and having me help you resolve it one on one. And it is my brain, my content, 17 years of coaching that is downloaded into my digital mind. Matthew AI that you are getting access to. You can text it or call it whatever you prefer and you can go and try Matthew AI for free by going to askmh.com the link again is askmh.com and if you love it, you can get it unlimited for as many hours as you like. Think about the number one question you want to ask me right now. Then go to askmh.com and ask me.

So how do you Spot early clues that you share long term values with somebody like you know, family, ambition, lifestyle, the things that you think are important as well. Like how for somebody who's listening, who's just like I'm really early on dating somebody and we've had a fight and I don't know really that it's kind of one or the other. I don't know if it's a misalignment in values or not. Like are there things early clues that we can look out for?

I honestly think exploring the like you actually talking more and exploring where things come from for people how they think. You know that is what Hitchens always Christopher Hitchens always used to say. It's more important how someone thinks than what they think. And and the only way you can really find out how someone thinks is by asking more questions is, is by having a curiosity, you know, not just what they believe but why they believe it and where that comes from and how they came to believe that.

And you know, looking at what drives them. I think looking at again it doesn't matter if you disagree but like how good is the recovery? How much do they admit areas they don't know? How much do they even just listen to what you, your point of view is? I think there's like differences in values, differences in behavior and then maybe like differences in vision or where you want things to go.

And you think those are all equally as important for compatibility.

I think think they are, yes. I think you can deal. I think some people are too dismissive too quickly on like they think values just means you have to see eye to eye on all things. And I just don't increasingly think that's true. But I think you need to more agree with each other's character. Like it's more like each other's character traits and seeing things you admire or really, really respect in that person. I don't think it matters the material of like we share these interests or hobbies or even certain beliefs.

Where it's tricky is that you don't always reveal the different all the differences until let's say you have kids and then like you suddenly might find out they have very different ideas around you know how they want those kids raids raised.

Right. But there'll be many discussions hopefully before that happens.

You hope but they're often are not like that's the thing is that you know a lot of people are not having these conversations before getting married and you know they, they may marriage might feel like the first step and it's like well we're really compatible. We're having a great time, and these things don't matter to us. You have your way of doing things, I have white my way of doing things. And it all kind of works. So let's get married. But if, you know, kids is something you want in your future and you haven't had those conversations yet about, well, does this, like, I'm wondering what raising kids looks like to you, that until you have those conversations, you just, you just don't know. You know, you've got one half of a couple that believes in circumcision and the other one that doesn't. That can be a huge deal between two people, but it's definitely not something that would come up, you know, unless you have that conversation. That's not a converse. That's a very specific conversation that might have major implications for the relationship. In the same way that, you know, who takes whose name, you know, whether you take someone's name or not is the kind of thing that doesn't come up until it comes up.

And I really tried to get Matt to take my name, like when we were signing our papers, and he wouldn't have any of it. Well, Matt Lestrat, I think there's a.

Couple of reasons for that, but Matt Lestrade is one of them.

Do you think that there is, like, a proactive way to root out disagreements?

I think so.

In a way that, like, it actually could be kind of fun, like in an earlier stage of dating where, like, yeah, you air them out and you get to talk about them and kind of like, get ahead of it before. Before it's a problem.

Guys, we have some big news. Stephen has finally tried the Cozy Earth bed sheets. This is hot from the press. What do you think?

I got the lovely navy ones and they are so cool over the summer. It's honestly that I'm so much cooler in bed. I got them on the pillowcases as well. I didn't realize it was a whole set. They're really stuck. Soft, silky. I am loving them.

So they are.

They are now my. My default bed sheet.

They are the best bed sheets in the whole world. They're so buttery and soft and beautiful. In fact, all of their product is buttery and soft and beautiful. We absolutely love, love, love this brand, Cozy Earth. We've talked about them so many times on the podcast, you guys, but we are just such big fans of this brand. And right now we have a discount code, don't we?

That gets you 40% off all of the products in their store. So if you go to cozyearth.com and use our discount code that we got for you guys, love Life, you get 40% off everything in store, whether you want the bed sheets, their clothes. Me and Steven wear their clothes all the time. So does Audrey. Their pajamas, their jogging bottoms, or sweatpants, as they're known as in America. Grab something for yourself@cozyearth.com use the discount code. Love life.

I think practically you can actually talk about certain buckets ahead of time. And there's a book that's kind of interesting. It's a bit old now, but it's interesting. It's called Eight Dates, and I believe the eight dates they talk about. So they basically say you should go on eight dates with the person you're with, and on each of these dates, you should tackle one of these subjects. And the subjects are trust and commitment, conflict, sex and intimacy, work and money, family, fun and adventure, growth and spirituality. I suppose that falls into religion, too, and dreams. And it's this idea of, like, if you can kind of. It gives you, like, prompts and questions to ask each other. But if you can discern that you align enough on all of these subjects and you're kind of, you know, at least getting a bit of a gauge for the person that you're with, which I think is quite interesting. You don't have to do it through this book, but I think just choosing those very kind of like, core, core value topics and, you know, asking questions about them being like, what do you think is important when you're raising children? Like, you know, like, what are the things that you think? You know, for instance, like, do you. Do you think there should be a good cop or. And a bad cop? Like, how do you feel about discipline? You know, all of those kinds of things, like private school, public school, all these sorts of things. And so I think there's just a lot of conversations you can have around these subjects that can be really helpful. And I think if you put them in the context of a date, it can be fun, right, because you're kind of just getting to know each other a little bit better. I mean, it might go horribly wrong, but then, you know, at least, you know.

And the important thing is you actually are encouraging people to explore them. Because I think one of the problems that people complain about in dating nowadays is. Is just on apps and everything. People are just so dismissive, and they almost want everyone to superficially agree with all their, like, opinions and interests.

And.

And I think that's just a total losing game. Like, because you are giving yourself no. No wiggle room. No ability to say, hey, maybe actually that person's spiritual beliefs aren't a big deal. And it's just like something that is personal to them and it's not. Doesn't affect our relationship or whatever, their politics, their interests. And I. Yeah. And I think that's why at the beginning, you. You have to get to the dates to actually have the conversations. You just do. Because you won't find out by someone's profile, like, oh, yeah. And. And then people mistakenly go for people who have superficial agreements with them. Like, oh, we like all the same movies and we're into the same intellectual things and they have this degree and that means they're great. And it's just like. And then they realize that person's an asshole or they realize that person's got loads of deep flaws. So I think you have to go on the dates and have the conversations.

Well, let's have a. Let's have a real life example. We have a Love Lifeline caller whose name is Sandrine.

Sandrine. Oh, I like that name. That's cute. French name.

I don't know if she is French, but I said it in a French accent.

Hi, everyone. I'm happy to be with you today. So my question will be, how do you know when you are giving too much empathy and understanding to someone and when it's time to give up and let go and how not to feel guilty for giving up? Thank you.

So would you say she was French?

Definitely French.

What a lovely accent.

I know.

So nice, isn't it? That's how you could have sounded if you had stayed in France.

I can put it on if you like and answer the question with a.

French accent or just in French for Sandrine. I. So when. When to know when you're giving too much empathy. Yeah.

Too much understanding.

Good question.

I think that empathy and understanding should make things better. And I think that's all that's. Often the litmus test is, does it actually make things better?

That's very good. Very obvious and very good.

Because you. Because you, you, you. There are certain people in our lives who we have made the mistake of endlessly giving empathy to. And it didn't make things better. It just extended the relationship. It didn't make them better. It didn't make them more generous towards our opinions or our thoughts or our flaws. It didn't make them less selfish. It didn't make them exercise more humility. It just gave you more days where the relationship didn't break. And you have to ask yourself, you know, is, is my empathy, is my understanding making things better and am I extended the same thing? Are they extending the equal amounts of empathy and understanding towards me? Very often empathy is. It only runs in one direction and understanding only runs in one direction. And it's only when we stop being so understanding all the time or when we start having less patience that we realize the only reason the relationship keeps going is because of us. The moment we stop being so, you know, compassionate towards someone and it giving them the benefit of the doubt, the moment we stop doing that, immediately it devolves into chaos. And immediately they're not interested because they're. Now their needs aren't being met or they're not being validated in the same way, or it's inconvenient for them and they don't want inconvenient, or the argument never ends because you never say sorry. Does the argument only ever end because you apologize? And if, if these things are true, then we're masking the fact that this relationship doesn't actually work. And it's not one where someone is meeting you on equal terms. Ask yourself, does it make it better? And am I receiving the same from their side? Because actually, when we are receiving the same from their side, it creates a kind of upwards spiral of more peace and the arguments become fewer and they shorten. The recovery time gets better and better. Like we always talk about that in arguments. Our recovery time, like when, when we first started dating, our recovery time was not as good as our recovery time is today.

Our recovery time is so good now.

It's really good. We bounce back very, very quickly, very quickly. But that's because there's a. Both of us rush in to be understanding. And we got better at that. I don't want to pretend like we were just great at that from day one, but, but, but it was happening on both sides. It wasn't just happening on one side.

I remember where. I can't remember. I have no idea what it was relating to. But I remember we had an argument and I was kind of like, I don't think I'm in the wrong, but I'm going to apologize anyway because then it's going to open the door for making up. And, you know, he'll apologize. He'll definitely see like, you know. And so I was like, hey, I'm really sorry. And you were like, yeah, thanks for saying that. And you didn't say it back. And I remember being like, well, are you not going to say it back? Are you not sorry? Because I wasn't even really sorry. I was just saying it because I wanted you to recognize that what you'd done was really shitty. And I remember that so well.

So yeah, I don't remember that.

Did he apologize?

Yeah, he did. Because he was in the wrong. I can't remember. I can't remember. I just remember that feeling of like. But I think what, what maybe we learned in that moment was just, you know, this idea of like sometimes you apologize not because you necessarily think you're the one in the wrong completely. Like you recognize that maybe you've done, you know, you've contributed to the argument. But even if you're not fully in the wrong, you're apologizing to open a door and allow the other person to also go, yeah, me too. And then you can kind of, then it's not about understanding like who is more in the wrong. It's about just kind of recognizing how you've hurt each other. Yeah, but I think that's where we probably like what we learned in that moment. But I remember that really well.

And, and there are some things that just, they're just too big for us to like we, we might be able to empathize with how someone got there, but they're just too big for us. Like we might say you arrived at that belief or that way of, or that behavior because of childhood or because of your parents beliefs or because of what you were, whatever. You might be able to empathize, but you fundamentally just can't be with someone like that.

Yeah. And Sandrine, I also think being empathetic can sometimes come at the cost of actually speaking out for what your needs are and like what you actually want from somebody in a relationship. So if, you know, I relate to always wanting to placate things and things to be okay and so I'll rush in to be like, oh, you know, like let's just fix it. Because I just don't want to be at odds. I don't want to argue, but sometimes in my life it's, I've done that almost like as a, as a form of self betrayal because I've almost done it in a way where I'm, I'm just so desperately trying to not feel the conflict because it's so uncomfortable to me that I just, I will sort of apologize and rush in really quickly and then that way. But I don't actually, I don't, I don't feel heard in the ways in which I was hurt.

And that's kind of the, the, that would be like, you know, that's really, you're putting forward the merits of arguing the merits of voicing disagreement, especially early on. I'm not saying go into date two trying to create friction just to see, like, just to battle out your ideas all in date two. But, you know, the more you start sharing some of your thoughts and you're okay with those little, you know, moments that have friction, the, the more you get to see what this is and what it can be. And I, I do worry for people that only ever extend empathy without actually voicing opinion.

Yeah.

That they, you actually can end up being passive all the way to a committed relationship where that person doesn't really know you and so they're surprised when you start voicing real opinions. They feel blindsided. You feel like you're now so deep and so emotionally entangled with this person that you're, you're even more afraid to voice your opinions because you don't want to lose this person. It should actually be part of our filtration system earlier that we, we see what happens when we disagree about certain things. And I don't think this is always true. Like it's more necessary in romantic relationships than it is in friendships, because you're not. I've got friends who we, we really like massively diverge on what we believe. Right. But I know I couldn't be in a romantic relationship with them.

Yeah, you're not building a life with them.

No. And I know by the way that the differences that are palatable as friends wouldn't be palatable if we were in an intimate long term relationship that wouldn't work. So there are certain things you can get away with in friendships, especially friendships that aren't like the closest of friendships that you simply cannot get away with in romantic relationships.

That's a good point.

Sandrine, thank you so much for leaving us that voicemail. If you want to leave us a question, a thought, share an opinion on the things we're talking about, email us podcasty.com I want to tell you about something that is one of the most useful things that Audrey and I use when we are on the road, which we are a lot in hotel rooms wanting some comfort, trying to watch our favorite shows that we like to stream and then not being able to because we're in the wrong country or the wrong region where that show isn't available. The way that we, that we have got around this so that we can watch our favorite content wherever we are in the world is by having nordvpn it allows us to switch the region on our phones or our computers so that we can access websites and, and content from any country, no matter where we are. I also realized once I had it, that it gives me a layer of security that I never had before. I don't know about you. I'm always accessing the Internet on different WI FI networks, from coffee shops all over the world, wherever I go. And I never really understood how unsafe that makes my data. I do mobile banking on the go. I'm constantly looking at sensitive information that makes us susceptible to hackers. People who can see what you're doing, can see the information that you're looking at, and it's just a, a lot more unsafe. NORDVPN is an extra layer of protection from hackers, from people trying to get your information, and from annoying ads that are trying to target you. So whether you're trying to watch your favorite show anywhere in the world or you're trying to make sure that you're protected out there, go and Download NordVPN at NordVPN.com/love life. Because when you go to that specific link, which is our link we got for you, you'll be able to get a two year plan with an extra four months free. And NordVPN offers a 30 day money back guarantee. So go try it for yourself NORDVPN Love Life so that you can get four extra months for free. We had a recent episode that got a whole bunch of comments. Episode 306 Think it's love. Five signs it's obsession and It Will Never Last. This was a very popular episode where we talked all about the concept of limerence. Some great comments on this one. Mandy said it's like another version talking of limerence of your life in your mind that feels better than reality, but is exhausting. That's quite a good way of putting description.

Wow.

For those of you that haven't watched or listened to that episode, go check it out. It's episode 306. Because we talk about limerence, which is we, we go into what, what it is, but it's a kind of obsession level feeling of being in love with someone where you cannot stop thinking about them. And it doesn't necessarily have any relation to how much interest that person has shown you. So go back and listen to it. But that description is actually pretty great. It's like another version of your life in your mind that feels better than reality, but is exhausting. And of course limerence is exhausting. Anthony says you're literally explaining my last marriage and relationship. I'm so much happier now. Yeah. Because one of the things we talked about in that episode is the concept that limerence isn't something that can just take place in the context of unrequited love or someone who you never end up with. Limerence can actually exist in the context of someone you do end up with, where you never actually get over your feelings of limerence because you never quite feel like you have the person or you never quite feel good enough for the person. So you spend the whole relationship trying to obtain what anyone else would look at as you something you already have. See, Oreo Wiggins says, great episode to begin with. What I assume will be a series with all the follow on content around the topic. Thank you all. Interesting. Well, we didn't know if it would be a series or not, but if you want more content on this concept, let us know. Analysis Paralysis says the biggest movie about limerence is Great Expectations with Ethan Hawke and Gwyneth Paltrow. Now, I was quick to point out that my version of Great Expectations was not the one with Ethan Hawke and Gwyneth Paltrow.

I think Mum watches a black and white version of it.

That's the one that's on every Christmas. It's a black and white version. It's not. I don't think Gwyneth Paltrow was in black and white.

I think they're referring probably to Ms. Havisham, who was obsessed with her late husband and lived still in her wedding dress from her wedding day in a room of spiders and cobwebs. Very Dickensian and kind of never let go.

Yeah.

Of this moment in her life.

Poor Ms. Havisham.

Or Susuke says this was great. Titanic, not limerence.

Thank you. Thank you.

So glad you picked this confusing topic. Is it love or limerence? Hard to tell. Or a love addiction? Or is that limerence? So, great topic. Lots of discussion. Apparently you were right. Titanic isn't limerence. According to Susuke.

Yep. Thank you, Susuke.

And Charles shares says a video on stopping stalking and telling the wrong story based on good times and memories would be helpful. You're a big advocate of people not stalking exes or people that they're. They've got caught up on. Right.

Yeah. And I don't mean like actual stalking. I mean don't do that.

You mean like don't look at their social media. Don't keep looking at their stories or their feed.

Yeah, you're. You're just keeping it alive, keeping it alive.

Kill it dead.

Kill it dead.

Well, it's that time again. It's Steves sleeves.

Sleeves.

I don't be bereaved.

You know that we can leave without.

Another episode of Steve Sleeves. Now what have we got going on in this Steve sleeves? I know that. I know the fans can't, you know, they're on the edge of their seat waiting.

This is fight or flight.

Okay.

Or as you might call it, deal breaker or just another Tuesday.

Okay.

Gonna give you some scenarios.

The most British thing you've ever said.

I'm gonna give you some scenarios and you're gonna tell me if that means you are incompatible. Maybe you don't like their behavior. Maybe you think this character. This isn't for me.

Okay.

Okay. They forget an important anniversary early on, and then they tell you, I don't really care about dates like that. You're a bit upset. And they're like, I don't really. I don't really make big. I don't really care about those things. But you like an occasion.

Just another Tuesday.

Really.

I agree. Because it's a conversation.

It's a conversation.

Yeah, but say they never bet. They're just like, it's not. I'm not a gift person. I'm not.

You said. You didn't say never. You said there was an occasion.

Okay. All right.

Where they. For. And it's like now. Now, the conversation begins on that one.

Yeah. And. And maybe it's that you accept that they're never gonna be enthusiastic about those kinds of things, but at least they're gonna. They agree to make the effort to, you know, put it in their calendar.

Yeah.

Because it means something to you. And. And, yeah, I think you can compromise on that.

Just another Tuesday.

Just another Tuesday.

They want alone time after work, but you want to connect and talk every night after work. I mean, they would like to.

So when do you hang out?

They. It's just they always want to connect and talk after work and, you know.

They want alone time.

Yeah.

And you want to connect and talk. But how long do they need? Do they need like an hour once they get through the door? The whole night?

Let's say they need more hours than you are happy with.

I suppose, sort of. Probably deal breaker because you make you feel alone. If you work five days a week, that's most of the week. It's most of your life.

Yeah.

You can't. You don't want to be living for, you know, the end of the week in your relationship. If you're someone who values ongoing Intimacy.

Well, if they're like, I want to work till like 10pm each night, so I'm not gonna have much time. I'm hustling, baby.

Is it a phase or is this life forever? That's the conversation I'd be having if. If you want it. If you want to start with it being just another Tuesday.

Okay. You disagree a lot every time you travel together. Flights, hotels, spending. I mean, it is a conversation. It's hard if you have. No, if someone's very different monetarily from you. I think even remit. Our friend Ramit says that someone who's cheap never stops being cheap. Like, he's very pessimistic about the idea you can make someone not cheap.

Can we just get some, like, sort of AI from Ramit saying deal breaker?

Well, if you're not cheap, it depends. But he says someone who's cheap will always be cheap.

Yeah, but that's not what you said. You said you disagree on things like flights, travel.

Yeah.

You didn't say that. You're not saying they're cheap. I agree with that.

Money was part of it.

But I. But again, you're not saying. Because they might be. They might disagree with you because to them, they like to spend their money on other things than nice hotels, in which case it's just like they enjoy a different. Like they enjoy.

Yeah, like the hotel might not be a big deal for them.

Yeah. Whereas they're cheap. And you're someone who really values generosity, then it's not going to work with.

The information you've given us. Stephen, it's just another Tuesday.

Okay, let's do one we've already talked about. They are very judgmental about your political beliefs and your personal beliefs.

I think that's an issue. Judgmental. Don't like that word. Look, you can have a conversation about it, but I think if they're judgmental about things that matter to you, that's not good.

So you're going deal breaker.

Yeah, I think so.

Okay. For the purposes of the game, deal breaker.

Very serious.

Okay. You are very organized and they often are, like, making last minute plans.

Just another Tuesday.

Just another exhausting Tuesday.

You've discussed your needs for intimacy and then they sent you a shared Google Calendar invite saying, sex schedule.

I think just another Tuesday. And I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. I think, you know, they're trying, but maybe it's a bit like, maybe this is so. For you, this is so literal and clinical that you're. You're just not a match with this person because you're just like, I'm never going to be able to get turned on by someone whose response to I need more intimacy is to send me a Google Calendar invite with a sex schedule.

They are trying.

They're trying. But maybe the method of their trying is so removed from the world you want to live in that it becomes a bit of a deal breaker.

Audrey, you've been quiet.

I mean, I love. I love Google calendars. I'm like, I live on my calendar, so I would appreciate the organization. But it's. You're right. Like, it's. It's just, like, not sexy.

Maybe another Tuesday for Audrey.

Definitely. It would give me the ick.

Okay, well, that's then going to be a deal breaker, isn't it?

All right, well, thanks for playing, everyone.

That was Steve Sleeves, and thank God it's over. Leave me a comment on this video before you go. I love hearing from you. And by the way, way, if you're watching this and you really want to find love and you see other people around you pairing off and finding what you've been looking for for a long time, and you're feeling like, when's it going to be my turn? How might I be getting in my own way? Is there something I'm doing to sabotage my chances in this area? How can I finally find what I'm looking for? I am going to be helping people uncover their deeper patterns, understand their blind spots, and find what they're looking for this October at my retreat. If you haven't got a ticket yet, you can get your tickets@mhretreat.com and don't worry if you can't make it to be there in person. In Miami with us, there is a virtual ticket. That means you can participate in this event and get the content from it from wherever you are in the world. Go check it out@mhretreat.com grab your T tickets and I can't wait to see those of you who are coming.