Matthew Hussey Goes Deep on Relationships

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News, a 75-year-old broadcast. It's a great responsibility.

Good evening, I'm Tom Yemz.

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Evenings on NBC. Yeah, I saw on the YouTube files, like, I don't like how I looked at all. So I tried to make my lighting a little bit better. My vanity really, like, crashed out. I think you look great. Oh, dude, on the one you just posted, I'm like, it's like dark. I got bags under my eyes.

I'm trying to get a little soft lighting up in this bitch. Everyone's response with the new YouTube movement.

Everyone'S like, oh, no. Makeup people, how much would that cost.

For a whole season? I don't think we can do that. Well, I see these.

I don't think we can do that.

No, I know. We do it over, we do this over Zoom, obviously. But when you, when I go to those people, when I do podcasts like Bubba Gump or Rich Roll or the other one, they're so beautifully lit when you go, like, and they have a setup and it's in studio and, and they make the most beautiful videos, like little short things to advertise the episode.

And they look gorgeous. And I'm like, I mean, I know we do ours over Riverside, but guess what?

That costs way more money than what we do. So. Well, we would do it if we were able to. to meet up once a week in person and it wasn't a pain in the ass. I would love to do that with you.

Absolutely. It would be nice. But you know what?

It's just not feasible.

It isn't. It's impossible.

You know what it is? It's not feasible. It's unfeasible.

It's unfeasible.

It's unfeasible a word, Joelle?

Not feasible. I don't think infeasible. It's infeasible.

Thank you, Daniel. You went to college.

Well, dude, you went to Northwestern. Isn't that the Harvard of the Midwest?

Infeasible didn't come up. Infeasible never came up, but it is.

The Harvard of the Midwest. Northwestern University.

Because nothing was inconceivable or infeasible.

Inconceivable.

Great Wallace Shawn quote.

I'm so excited about today's episode and guest because you're a single man. He's going to give us some good advice. And often when I'm walking to my computer to do the episode, a song comes into my head. And the song that came into my head today was, Wook and Panub in all the wrong places. Wook and Panub.

You said it already wrong. It's Wookin' Panub in all the wrong paces. You can't say the L. For those.

Of you who don't know, this is Eddie Murphy doing Buckwheat singing the song Looking for Love in All the Wrong Places. Donald, will you do it justice? 'Cause I didn't do it justice.

You can order Buckwheat Sings! Wookin' Panub in all the wrong paces. Wookin' Panub! He sings some of your favorite hits, a dead Dabba, a dead on diamond duh. Benny D. Myers. Yeah, you know what holds up?

If you were born- Everything Eddie Murphy ever did on SNL?

Everything. If you were born in the 1970s and you grew up and had the best of Eddie Murphy Saturday Night Live video cassette.

Didn't he only do like one season?

No, he did a couple. But if you had the best of both worlds.

Well, how many seasons did he do? I feel like they're all from one season.

He did two or three.

If you haven't, if you're listening to this and you like our sense of humor, you must track down Eddie Murphy's Saturday Night Live Greatest Hits.

Velveteen Jones.

I mean, he did four seasons. Yeah. Oh, I was very wrong.

I'm sorry.

1984.

Velveteen Jones. I want to be a hoe.

That's one of the best books ever made.

What about Mr. Robinson's neighborhood?

Robinson.

Can you say scumbag?

Buckett?

This is how you answer the door in my neighborhood? Who is it? When I was a kid, that shit got all on the play in my house when we were younger coming home.

What about once again, Buckweed has been shot.

Right.

If you're just coming into us live, Buckweed has been shot.

And then you find out that Alfalfa is the one that shot him.

God damn it.

What are you doing?

You ever seen it, Joel?

What are you doing?

I have not seen a lot of.

These, but I have seen when he.

Dresses up like a white guy.

Have you seen when he dresses up like a white man and goes undercover?

What are you doing? What are you doing? I'm buying this newspaper. Go ahead. Take it, take it.

He goes, I began to realize when white people are alone, they just give each other things. He goes to try and buy a newspaper and he gives them money. He's dressed up like he's got all this white makeup on. And the guy behind the counter goes, what are you doing? He goes, I'm trying to buy this newspaper.

I'm buying this newspaper.

And he goes, no, no, there's nobody around. Just take it.

Take it.

That's just hilarious. What a silly Negro.

Yeah, that's when he goes to try and get a bank loan. All right, everybody. How you doing, Joelle?

Doing good, doing good. Staying busy. Party planning, living it up.

What are you party planning?

Her birthday.

Oh, when's your birthday?

October 1st.

Oh, next Tuesday.

Several days from now.

And, Daniel, how are you? How's New York? I'm very well. New York is great. I'm finally setting in, feeling like I live here now. It's been going well.

Yes.

Good for you, bro. It takes a while. It took me five years to feel like I was a Californian.

Agree, at least.

I really like it here right now. I've been bopping around, but I'm loving LA right now.

Oh, it's breezy out.

Well, you know, that's the key. That is the key, Joel.

Cloud coverage.

Yeah.

The weather has changed for the better. Yeah, it's not 200. It's not 117 when you go outside here.

Not a billion degrees out.

Literally. Not literally, but you know, it was literally 117 degrees. I do know that.

That's nuts. I was, yeah. I felt for all of my LA people during that time. I am working panub Donald.

I know you're working panub. You're working panub in all the wrong paces, buddy.

Yeah, I'm working panub in all the wrong paces, but I think that, that, I'm ready to turn new leaf. I'm 49. Okay. It's not too late for me, right?

Joelle, it's not too late for me. Too late. I don't understand the concept of the question.

There's no, I gotta ask Matthew if it's too late for me to have.

Kids and all that stuff. He's gonna tell me. he's not gonna say no, bro.

If you're a man, there's no timeline for you.

He's not really. He's not really good at his job. Imagine.

Do you think I'm too old to.

Have kids, Matthew Hussey? Yeah.

No, I know he's not gonna say that, but we need advice. I need advice from him. I might be, you know, I'm so set in my ways, and I'm, you know, I I I. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe when you're younger, you can handle, like, getting up in the middle of.

The night for a screaming kid. that only lasts, like, a year or two, bro. That's it.

Really?

Yeah.

And it's. And you just. And you don't even have to do.

It because you got nothing that the baby wants. Well, I think I feel like I'd.

Marry a wife who would make me get up. I don't know that I'd end up with a woman who'd be like, you stay asleep, baby.

No, you know, this is what you do. You've got some. You've got a little bit of money. You get yourself a night nurse, and.

The night nurse goes and gets the baby and brings it to you. oh, really?

Yeah.

I need a night nurse.

Well, you need a baby.

Can I get a night nurse if.

I don't have a baby?

Because I have the worst insomnia. If I could have a night nurse.

Just rock me to sleep. A night nurse doesn't do that. A night nurse gives you the baby.

So you can rock the baby to sleep. No, but you're giving me an idea. If I were to hire a woman, not to not have anything sexual. Don't. Don't go there.

To just, when I have insomnia, lightly rock me to bed. The minute you get in bed with somebody and start rocking them, it gets sexual, bro. no way it doesn't. Listen, please, just.

I'm just trying to think this could be a new occupation for somebody. Adult night nurse. But so wait, and also go back to the real talk.

I totally hire somebody. Okay. Yeah.

All right, so you, you hire people who have money, they hire someone and they get the baby and then they just bring it to you.

They bring you the baby and the mom usually breastfeeds at this point.

Right.

And rocks the baby back to sleep. Right. And then they hand the baby back.

To... Oh, that's bougie. Now, how long does that happen for? That's probably just like the first two, three weeks, right?

Two, three weeks. And then you gotta learn how to let the baby scream pretty much until they fall asleep.

Oh, you have to Ferberize. Now, here's my question for you, Donald. No, what are you shaking your head about, Joelle?

No Ferberizing? That's 100% a tactic people use and it works. I'm recalling my parents talking about me at this stage in life and it's.

Very funny because I was a... Yeah, because some kids don't do that shit. And go ahead, Joel.

Tell them.

Tell them, Joel. My mother is like you, Donald. She was like, Listen, I don't fed you already, so you're not going to starve. I'm going back to bed. My father couldn't stay asleep, so it was just me and him all night, just pacing the floors until I would go to sleep. And she was like, it was insane. And her solution was like, what if we just move the crib in our room? But my dad was like, the baby is not getting used to sleeping in here. No, I would rather stay up all.

Night during this phase, get it done.

As opposed to now someone-- Joel, your.

Parents have versed you, have educated you well, because those are things that are true, yo. Look, straight up, if you give in, the baby will not stop crying until it feels the rock at night. And if you give in and go into that room and pick up the baby, the baby will be up all night with you, pretty much. That's the first thing. Wow.

So you have to sort of go through crying. It's like you have to, like, let them-- I mean, I know this is controversial, so I'm not taking a side, but I'm saying-- This technique is you let them cry it out until they stop and they soothe themselves.

Yeah, and your instincts are saying, I'm going in that room and I'm gonna soothe this baby. That baby needs me. That baby needs me. That's the first one. The second one though is the biggest one with the sleeping in the bedroom. The minute you, oh, buddy, you ain't never getting that kid out if you do that shit. I promise you that.

I know a lot of people can't handle the crying, so they just give in and say, fine, fuck it, sleep with us, right?

Yeah.

Bring the- They bring the- Did you do that?

What did you do? With these last two kids?

With these last two kids, we had a night nurse.

Oh, bougie. I went straight to- Can the night nurse live in, like, elsewhere with the kids? Sure you want? I have a question. Did when you do you think that how what percentage of the of the of the partners the wife says, honey, you stay asleep. There's nothing you can do. I just have to breastfeed. And then what percentage you think are like, get the fuck up. Because if I have to get up, you have to get up.

I think once you realize that there's nothing that the dude can do unless you're storing milk, but you can massage your feet.

Did you get up?

I'm telling you, Donald, isn't the thing where you rotate? So like, I have to wake up in the night to feed the baby, then my partner is staying asleep then so that they can be awake with the baby. Because the baby don't really sleep.

My wife, like, powering up. My wife was like, look, every time you're around, I don't like it. So you get out of here. and let me be with the babies.

Wow. That's kind of a technique. All right. No, I know another couple where I know another couple that's like, when we're both getting up or. And then I know another couple where they, they alternate, like, your turn. And then he, I guess he must give a bottle of breast milk. She pumped or something. Right.

We saved. So we pumped early and then say froze it and saved it for. When it was time to stop giving up the titty, because at a certain point, you want your titty back, you know what I mean? As a man, you want your titty back, you know what I mean? Now as a woman, you want your titty back too. You want your nipples not to be chafed anymore.

Yeah, and then you put this stuff that they put on cow udders on the nipple, I read.

I don't recall that.

Joelle, you know what I'm talking about.

I think so.

There's something called Buttercream, which... It was first used in the Midwest. This is real.

You know, it's real. It's a forgot what it's called. Bag bomb or something? No, I think it's called bag bomb. I don't know why I know this. Will you Google it for me? It was made for cow udders, but women find it soothing on their sore areolas.

Bag bomb is correct.

Bag bomb.

There's also a thing called utter cream. They're both. They're both real products.

You know what? I think you are ready for a baby now.

Yeah, I got it.

You sound like.

Well, if I can have Donald's bougie set up where the baby cries and I'm like, jeeves, and I ring a bell, Monica, Maurice Benson. All of a sudden, Benson from Webster.

Comes in from Webster. No, from Benson. Benson from Benson.

Oh, I'm conflating my 80s sitcom. Sorry.

Benson comes in and he's the night nurse. I don't know if they had a a us. I'm not going to say servant, but a housekeeper. Benson a servant? Pretty much, bro. Like he was like the assistant.

He was like a male.

He was the assistant to the governor who did everything, you know?

Oh, okay. Yeah. Benson is the is okay. I'm mixing up my shows. I was thinking about Mr. Belvedere. Mr. Belvedere.

Why did Mr. Belvedere have Webster? Mr. Belvedere didn't have Webster either. Webster lived with Ma'am and George. I don't think they had a housekeeper.

Who was Mr. Belvedere?

Mr. Belvedere was the housekeeper for the kid that they thought was Marilyn Manson later on. Who I played tennis with and is a fucking phenomenal tennis player.

Is he Marilyn Manson?

No, he's not Marilyn Manson.

Okay, spoilers. Now that's three different sitcoms I combined.

Yes. Mr. Tennis coach, remember little Wesley?

Our tennis coach, not my tennis coach anymore, but he was in the news recently. Did you see that?

I think he planted that shit.

Not to go down the rabbit hole, so we will speak tactfully. But.

Our tennis coach was in the news talking about how he might be responsible for a breakup between two people.

Right.

And and and and I don't think that he knowing who he is that he was at all, but he certainly likes being in the public eye. And I think he enjoyed being in the gossip rags.

Yes, with his shirt off.

With his shirt off.

I wonder if he's I wonder if he's I'm going to keep it 100. The dude got a good body for he's he's my age and rich.

I don't know that. Well, first of all, he plays tennis all day long, but second of all, I don't know if those pictures were recent.

Y'All with this tea right now?

I think he leaked some all right. Wait, we can't. We can't make Matthew Hussey wait. He's fancy. We got a really fancy guest. This guy's on all the cool kids podcast. He's a relationship coach. He wrote so many books, and we're so honored to have Matthew Hussey on. Let's bring him in.

Five, six, seven, eight stories about show we made about a bunch. Dogs and nurses and a janitor who love to hate. I said he's got stories that you all should know. So gather 'round to hear our, gather 'round to hear our, Scrubs Rewatch Show.

Is back and.

Donald.

Yeah.

Hold it together. This episode's not for you.

No, no.

For people like me that are alone. I get it.

That are alone. That build a pillow girlfriend and spoon.

Just me and Zach.

Just me and Zach.

Listen, I built. I build a pillow girl too, because my wife don't want to cuddle me.

My wife doesn't like to cuddle. Are you kidding me? Well, listen, don't hog this conversation. This is all you, bro. You got it. No, I want you to participate, but I don't want you to be asking dumb questions.

We gotta fucking, we gotta make the.

Use of this free session we're getting. Okay. I don't want you asking questions, as the kids say. Yeah, let me eat.

Let me eat.

I'm gonna let you cook.

Joel, is it cook or eat? What am I doing?

Either one.

Both, depending on the situation. There he is.

Well, hello.

Yes.

Hi, Matthew.

Wow.

So Matthew apparently, this isn't my podcast today. You are here to cater to the man, Zach. He is going to interview you 100%. He's the lonely dude on the planet.

That's not true.

So here we go. I just want to say to the audience that if you don't know what Matthew Hussie looks like, I just realized what this is all bullshit because he's very, very, very handsome. So what the fuck are his techniques gonna do to help any of us Regular people. You just have to look like Matthew Hussey.

Do you know I was used to-.

Oh, the British accent too, Donald. What the fuck? The book must be very short. Look like me and have this accent.

I was in the bathroom before coming on here, and I could hear Donald's voice through headphones. Yeah, man. Two rooms away from me. That means you need to turn your shit down, Matthew.

Turn your shit down. Yeah, Matthew, don't worry, when we mix.

This, Danell brings his volume down to 0.5.

And that wasn't me, that was Zach that was yelling, by the way. Hold on.

You guys have the greatest theme tune of any podcast I've ever heard.

We do.

I really hope you never change it.

We never will. We wrote it and then we gave it to Charlie Poof, who's a friend of ours, and he produced the fuck out of it.

That's amazing. That's so good. Yeah, please never change it. It's so catchy.

Yeah, even when I'm doing my read, my listen back to, to make sure that I have to cut anything stupid, Donald, or I said, I always listen to the theme song. I don't skip it. It's fire.

Scrubbing, rewatch show with Zach and Donna.

Dude, it's such an honor to have you on. The algorithm of Instagram knows that I love you because I get like 95% you, I get some cars, some watches, some pretty girls, and then you.

I'm really honored to be among that.

I'm gonna say that's a great list to be among.

How did this happen? How did you become such a specialist in relationships? of all shapes and sizes and ages and genders look to you for advice on dating. How did it come about?

I honestly feel like I never know how to answer this question anymore because when I started out, I was someone who really, I was into self-development from a teenager. I was always interested in, one of the first books I read in this area was on my parents' bookshelf growing up, which was How to Win Friends and Influence People.

Yeah, I've heard of that one.

And it's funny because I read it and I, it was, to me, as a very shy and introverted kid, it was like a Revelation that you didn't have to be stuck with how shy you were or with your, you know, the people skills that you had at the time. Like, you could improve those things. And so I, when I first started out, I was coaching very small groups, and I kind of got known for helping people get out there and. take more chances and put themselves out there more. And, you know, I had a very, in some ways, naive hypothesis at the time, which was like, hey, people make bad choices in love because they don't have enough choice. So if I can just help them create more choice, they'll make better choices. That hypothesis was wrong, by the way.

Really?

Yeah, because it's people, there's a lot more Deeper stuff going on for people in the choices that they make. And you can present someone with a wonderful human being and a chaotic human being, and they'll choose the-- many people will choose the chaotic human being.

Because it's exciting.

Matthew, you're going to say-- It gets old fast, but you know why, Matthew. You know why.

Knowing Donald, he's probably implying that they're crazy in bed. Is that what you're saying?

Right.

Yeah, that's what everybody thinks. things if you go on chaotic.

But that, well, that's an interesting thing because that's kind of a classic, that's a classic dichotomy we have in our heads, is that there is this proverbial choice between, you know, nice and boring or exciting and is gonna make my life worse.

Yeah.

And that happens on the side of men and women. And so, I think a lot of what I've come to do now, I've been doing this for 17 years of my life now, what I have come to realize is so much of what I'm doing is helping people find peace. Because when you're single and you want to find love and you're not finding love, it's very hard to be at peace.

Yeah, it's very dispiriting and demoralizing. And I have very good female friends that are single. I'm, I, me and another best friend of mine are still single in our late 40s. And, and so I, and then, of course, I see what's going on in the culture. So much talk about both men and women not being able to find their person and people giving up. And the apps had their moment. But is, is the app culture, you know, just turning into a, a slot machine where it's just so much next, next, whatever, next, next, next. Are people addicted to the newness of just swiping left and right?

Well, it goes back to what Matthew said. It's just too many choices.

Well, I don't know if that's his theory anymore. Go ahead, Matthew.

Sorry, I was just- no, I think it's all relevant. It was interesting is the more we say no to people in our life, I think the stakes get higher. It's almost like the person you eventually say yes to has to justify everyone you said no to. That's interesting. So I think for a lot of people, when they're still looking for love at an age where they thought they would have found it, they feel like the stakes have become so impossibly high because now why yes to this person? If yes to this person, why not yes to the person 10 years ago that I gave up because I felt like it wasn't quite right. It was 80% right, but I felt like I could get 90% right. 90%, right? And I think there's a lot of, there's like an optimization mindset that happens in our love lives that in some areas of our life is really useful. It could be really useful in business. It could be really useful with our bodies. When it comes to human beings, it's a challenge because no one's perfect. We're not perfect. A friend of mine said, He said to his mom, he was in his late 30s, and his mom said to him, why haven't you found someone? And he was like, you know, mom, I just, he was French. And he was like, you know, I just, you know, I'm looking for someone perfect, you know? And his mom looked at him and said, I just want to break it to you. You're not perfect. So, like, this thing that you keep looking for is is, you know, it doesn't even exist in you, let alone somebody else. So I, you know, I, I think there's this interesting question around, at what point do we say, I'm gonna choose this person and then I'm gonna lean in. And I think it's the, it's the difference between, if you take the word to settle, right, or the phrase to settle, it's seen as an obviously negative phrase by most people. Like, I don't want to settle. I don't want to settle in any area of my life, especially not with the person I'm going to share a bed with for the rest of my life. But there's a big difference if you change the language around the word settle. If you think of settling for someone, you think of being shortchanged. If you think of settling on someone, that implies an empowered approach. It implies agency. It implies that I'm... I almost think of it like people going across America. You know, when they first got to, like, when they got to the East Coast, it was like, at some point they were gonna start going west. And of those people who went west, you know, who's to say what was the best place to decide to stop? Who's to say whether it was, you know, Chicago or Montana or California? who's to say? At some point you had to say, you know what? I'm gonna build a home here. And what's gonna make this home really special is the investment I put into it, not that I have found the perfect land.

Right.

But I hear you, and that's an amazing analogy, but you still have to have these feelings for this person that you go, wow, I'm willing to invest everything in this relationship.

Wait, yeah, I think this is the problem that a lot of people face. Zach, maybe your feelings change a little bit faster than everyone else's do, you know what I mean? Maybe that's what it is. Everybody goes through, when you go through a relationship, you go through ups and downs, obviously. but it's a journey, right? And the way you feel in the beginning of the journey isn't going to be the way you feel in the middle of the journey or at the end of the journey. But if you can throw that out and just be on the, you know, when we started, I committed to loving you and you committed to loving me. Let's continue this, even though you might not be feeling me right now, even though you I know you still have love for me. I haven't taken, that's not gone yet. Let's see where this journey goes. Relationships are not, I feel like I need to, I feel like, like Zach, you and I have a great relationship. Do you feel like you need to be around me all the time? Do you feel like you, you know what I mean? That if we don't talk about certain things, our relationship's gonna suffer?

You know, but a friendship-- but a friendship is so different because I can check-- oh, shit. No, I disagree. I can check out from-- I can check out from you. I can go, oh, he's annoying me. Thank God we don't live together.

I'll fucking talk to him in a week. That doesn't work in love.

You just-- yeah, absolutely it does.

You just-- I don't think that works.

You just-- Wait, let's ask Matthew. Let me have this fucking sassy card on the show. We're arguing.

No, no, no.

I think it's a-- I actually-- Donald, I actually think that what you're saying makes so much sense. you do. You have to have enough of a feeling to get something off the ground, that's for sure. I think it's. We have to be careful because the. One of the things I. I like to say is don't comparison shop for chemistry, because it. There's always. I think that we often compare chemistry we might be feeling now with a chemistry that we felt. with a certain person in a certain moment of our life that has become the kind of benchmark for what we expect. And often the conditions that produced that chemistry were not sustainable in the first place. So, even if we had stayed with that person, that chemistry wouldn't have even lasted with that person. So, the fact that we take the absolute peak of an experience we have had that isn't sustainable And then we compare every bit of chemistry we have in the future with that. That's like a, it's a completely unfair thing to put any new relationship through. In fact, I think often the healthier relationships, in some ways, they produce less of that. It's not, I'm not against chemistry, by the way. I want to make that clear because there's always going to be people listening to this going, but chemistry is really important to me. It's really important to me too. But I do think that sometimes when someone comes along and they are a lot of the right things, it's more subtle. It often produces more of a calm. For a lot of us, calm feels like the opposite to the kind of volatile, passion that we've experienced in other situations before. And, and especially when we've been single for a minute, like, I, I saw myself being single. When I was single, I was like, at a certain point, I felt a bit like a junkie. I was like, I am in a kind of current right now that is not conducive to me even necessarily appreciating the right thing when I see it. A bit like someone... It's like taking someone who is trying to wean themselves off drugs, and like literally two days into them being sober, you try to get them to sit in front of a sunset and appreciate a sunset. A sunset's amazing.

But you're like-- Not when you're joning for a fix!

No, because a sunset is never gonna compare to that. It's never gonna be that. And so I do think that there's almost a kind of... Like, we have to get far enough away from that frenetic, like, constant novelty of jumping from one person to the next. That is always inherently like, It's fun and it's sexy and it's charged, but I do think that like, you know, there's people that come into our lives where you go, Yes, I'm attracted to this person. I am. I can't not be attracted to this person. That's a problem. I am attracted to this person, but there's something about this that feels like home. You know, it feels like I can really be myself here. And I think that's a really powerful feeling to look for.

Now, Matthew, are you saying that you shouldn't have, I mean, I feel like the more up to bats you have, the better your odds. That is to say, if you're being proactive and you're going on dates and you're letting your friends set you up and you're going to parties and you're putting yourself on the field as many times as possible up at bat, the better your odds are of stumbling into someone new that could produce those feelings. But it also sounds like you're saying some of that sort of manic dating energy isn't conducive for finding the right person. What's the balance there?

Yeah, the balance is the right word. I think imagine for a moment that someone set up five TVs in your living room. and they put a great movie on each of them and press play at the same time. They're all great movies, but at the end of that two hours, are you really gonna be able to connect to any of them? Can you really say, you know, I love that movie, or I really felt like I know that movie?

No.

And I think that's a lot of what happens in dating is But, you know, we have these movies playing out, but we're not really present for a lot of them because we've got multiple movies going on at the same time. I'm not, by the way, it's going to sound a little bit like I'm talking out both sides of my mouth because I'm also, I warn people against giving up all of their other options too quickly because I think people, I deal with people all the time who have been on one date with someone and they're already planning a future with them. And meanwhile, that person is still dating three other people right now. So I do think we have to be careful. But- How does that work?

I've never done that. For those who have done that, how does that work? How do you go out and say, you know what? I'm gonna date as many people as I can right now and then form a connection. It just doesn't seem like it's possible.

Well, I think you're talking about in the beginning. Well, first of all, you know, even.

In the beginning, even in the beginning.

Like- well, you missed this whole app dating craze. which is, you know, people meet lots of different people and those, some people don't do it at all, but some who are active, you know, they can be going on dates with multiple people and they're not committing to one yet. And so I think that's what you're saying, right, Matthew?

I think, yeah, I think sex is a good thing to be really conscious about if you're being intentional in your love life. Like, I'm not, I think there's a lot of people who come to the table talking about this in a very prudish manner. I'm not one of them. I think if you want to go and have fun and, you know, sleep with a bunch of people, do your thing. But if you're being intentional and you're like, that's not the game I'm playing right now. The game I'm playing is I want to find a meaningful relationship and a partner. I think being more conscious about you know, how, when do I have sex with someone? Am I having sex with multiple people at the same time? You know, that is gonna, that's naturally gonna confuse everything. Um, so I, I'm a, I'm a fan of like, yes, go on dates with multiple people, but, but take your time with those people. And if you actually are like, I, I kind of like this person, I feel like there might be something here. Yeah, it's... I almost think we have to resist the urge in some ways to race forward, because that's when we miss a lot. You know, we get super excited, we start projecting a lot onto this person that we don't know much about at all. You know, we know 5% of this person. We've already decided they're the person for us. I think it's slowing down being intentional.

I did that recently. I I was just so I I met someone and I was really crazy about them, and then you just instantly make up, like, 98 of who they are.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

And then reality hits, and then you're.

Like, oh, my God, I'm in love with this person that I've created in my mind. And then, of course, you get to know them a little more, like, oh, that's. this is a lovely human, but they're not what I thought they were at all. And I'm sure a lot of people fall into that because you're so geeked and excited to meet the right person that you project, as you said, a personality onto them that isn't them because you haven't slowed down and taken the time to get to know them.

Yeah, and I think the opposite can happen too, where you have someone great interested in you and you, something about it doesn't feel familiar to you. It doesn't feel like it comes with that same, I don't know, it doesn't come with that chaotic or frenetic energy. It doesn't come with the push-pull. It comes in the form of someone who's actually quite straightforward.

That's exactly how I got knocked on my ass, bro. Tell me, tell me how it happened.

Happened.

I was very used to going out with girls and stuff like that who were exciting and fun and did crazy, crazy, crazy. The type of where I was like, golly, you know what I mean?

And not just in bed. I know you mean in bed, but also, like, they were big personalities and they were. And they were the life of the party and. all that stuff.

And I met someone who still had some of those qualities. Like, my wife is definitely the life of the party. She's definitely, you know, has a shit ton of charisma, and I think that's what attracted me to her. But she was straightforward from the gate. From the minute I met her, she was like, if you're gonna waste my time, we don't need to do this shit. And that fucking perked me up like, oh, shit. Really? And she was like, yeah, I don't wanna get married. I'm not moving in with you. You know what I mean? These things are not on my to-do list right now. What I wanna do is discover myself. I like you. We can fuck around and you can be my boyfriend, but all of this move in with me, play this house game shit, we're not doing that. And I was like, this is the best day ever. This is exactly what the fuck I'm talking about. This is what I need in my life, you know what I mean? And it turned, by the end of it, six years later, I'm begging her to move in, I'm begging her to marry me, and I'm begging her to have kids. And at that moment though, she's ready to do the shit too, and we do it. But she was straightforward from the gate. Don't waste my fucking time. If there's something else that you wanna do, go do that shit. I don't give a fuck, I'm fine. You know what I mean?

But she was saying, she was saying this needs to be a committed relationship. From the gate.

If you're gonna be a gate.

But she was also saying, get all this bullshit out of your system. I don't want to date, I don't want to date a Playboy. I don't want to date someone who's.

Gonna cheat on me. If you got shit, you need to get out of your system. Go do that shit. Go do that shit. And maybe me and you ain't, we're not supposed to be. But if you want a relationship and you want to fuck, like I tried to break up with her. Like, I'm going, I'm gonna go get some pussy. I don't give a fuck what you say. I'm going to get me. And she was like, but if you do that, you and I aren't gonna have a relationship in me. and don't you feel like our relationship is special? And I would think about it, our relationship is special. She's right.

And that's a great thing for someone to back that up, because a lot of people, I think, when they hear, when I talk about having standards, a lot of people imagine this sort of like, you know, pounding the table, like aggressive or passive-aggressive way of saying what you want. I, what you just highlighted is such a powerful combination, is the ability to have a standard about what you expect in order for someone to, and it's not what you, you don't feel entitled to it. You're just like, if you want, if you want my energy, if you want my time, if you want intimacy with me, this is what I need from you. And if you can't give that, no problem.

It's not a big deal.

And, but then to say, But I think that would be stupid, 'cause we've got something pretty great. That's a very powerful combination, 'cause there's a warmth at the same time as having those standards, and there's also a kind of pointing to the thing and going, But also, this is pretty great. But also, leave if you need to. You're not- But also, this is pretty great.

She did a lot of this, stay back, come here, stay back, she did a lot of that, you know what I mean? Early on in our relationship, but she was honest about everything. And she never, like, when she was doing the Stay Back, Come Here, she was like, I work for somebody right now. She was a personal assistant. My time, I don't have a lot of it, but I really fucking like you. So don't get too close, but next time I see you, do be a nice guy. And do do the same thing that you did before. My wife is dope.

She sounds great.

She's fucking dope.

All right, but let's not focus on him, 'cause he already found the love of his life.

Let's take a break.

We'll be right back after these fine words.

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Matthew, I wanna talk a little about texting because I feel like this is where, you know, they used to say it goes down in the DM. I think it goes down in the text chat because this is where flirting sort of happens these days. And I feel like you learn a lot from someone by how they respond to you, how quickly they respond to you, if they're playing games with you. I wonder what your thoughts are on this. I read a quote, I forgot who said it, I didn't say, but it landed with me. It said, if they like you, you'll know. If you're confused, they don't. that's all you need to know. And I wonder, you know, sometimes I'm, you know, hanging out with someone and they don't get back to me for like too long. And I'm like, well, I'm confused and like this is all I need to know. What are your thoughts on the sort of the text game of flirting in 2024?

I think we keep a lot to ourselves. and there's a lot of thoughts going on in our head about like, oh, I don't feel very safe in this situation emotionally because I feel like this person isn't really consistent and, you know, they, one minute they seem to be into me, the next minute they're cold. And we have different response systems to feeling unsafe. You know, some of us cling on and, you know, we start over-texting, Others are like, screw you, and we turn that person into the devil. And we say, you know, you're out. I'm not gonna text you anymore. And what doesn't happen a lot is actually being able to communicate. And I think communicating is an interesting word because it's, it's not as easy as that, right? There's right ways to communicate and there's ways to communicate that don't, that do us a disservice. There's a way to communicate. that makes us appear very needy and desperate and weak and, you know, oh, and sometimes just feels like it, you know, a lot of times when you hear people talk about what to say and how to say it in any context, it can feel a bit clinical and a bit strange and a bit like you kind of lick at it and you go, people don't really talk like that in real life. That would sound weird to say. So I always think, was the communication that you feel like you could actually say. And you have to communicate at a moment where you have leverage, because there's no point communicating about what you're not happy with at a time when you have no leverage. You know what I mean? Like, if someone hasn't been texting you back and it's kind of their turn, texting them at that point and being like, I'm really not happy with the way this is, it's like, you might as well.

Paint the clown face on you right there and there.

I know. But isn't that everything? And the spirit of the quote, isn't that everything you need to know?

I think it is, but I think what complicates dating is that often people come back. They do text again. They do ask you what you're up to tonight. And they do it after you having not heard from them for the last week or two, or not getting back to your last two messages. those moments are really interesting because the, yes, the time where you've been reaching out to someone and they're giving you nothing, why bother continuing with that investment? That's, you know, like all your energy is better served putting it in a different direction. But people, dating is strange because people, you know, they get lonely one night and they look through their phone and they're like, oh, you know, I'll reach back out to that person who I haven't texted recently. Oh, no, they sent me two messages I didn't get back to. Oh, well, let's try. You know, people do that. They get lonely, they get bored, or, you know, they just, whatever. They need some stimulation, they need some validation. So we have to be very careful when we're on the other side of that, because otherwise you just, you literally become someone's validation when they need a hit. They need a dopamine hit.

They need a dopamine hit.

And you're there, and of course, we, when we get a text from someone that we really like, and our brain doesn't register in that moment that this, they're trying to get a dopamine hit necessarily, or that they haven't texted back to our last two messages. We're just, we get a rush of blood to the head, we're excited, we call a tribunal with our friends, and we're like, what should I say?

Screenshot, screenshot, what's the move?

But we have to start, I always say, follow your path, not your feelings, right? Your feelings will tell you, text back, call this person, do this, do that. But your path says, what is it I really value? What is the kind of communication I want in my life? What is the kind of relationship I want to have with another person? And once you've established that, you have to lean into that over your feelings, 'cause you often can't trust your feelings. Your feelings, you know, I once saw someone with a t-shirt that said, your feelings are valid.

Not really.

Your feelings are not always valid. Our feelings can be crazy based on nothing, can be irrational. So it's saying at that point where someone texts you and says, Hey, what are you up to this weekend? And you're like, I sent you three messages you didn't get back to. That's the moment of leverage. That's where you do have leverage because someone's reaching out to you. And this is like a moment where I get to set my stall out and say, this is what I'm about. Now, you can do that in a, you don't have to do that in an over-the-top or aggressive way. It might literally be saying to someone, you know, I'm a little surprised to hear from you. I didn't, you know, I felt like we had a good thing going, but then I didn't really hear from you.

And then that puts them in the, you know what? We did have a good thing going, but I've been busy. Or I said, then here comes the excuses, though. And if it's a good excuse, A-OK.

And by the way, even if the excuse is like, I'm this and work and blah, blah, blah, that's okay. But the thing I always say to people is you have to take the view that, okay, they have their reasons, but I have my reality. And the only thing that really matters to me is my reality. Your reasons don't determine the quality of my life. My reality determines the quality of my life. So it's okay. if someone's the kind of person that's so busy, they have a business and this and that, and they're never available, that's okay. But you might not be in the market for a relationship. Yeah. And so it's okay to say in.

That, in that case, Matthew, like, if you're, if you're really, you know, protecting yourself, look, you know, in some, some, some form of, listen, you're really great, but I, I'm, I'm really looking for someone who's available more and, and who, I mean, is there a way to do it like that? I mean, I think the honesty is, what do you think is the best.

Way to do it, bro?

Yeah.

I think when you The courage to be honest, you know, the last person I was seeing, I had the courage right off the bat to be like, Hey, I really like want to just, I'm not gonna play games with the texts at all. I'm like, I'm just, I'm too old. I'm just gonna really communicate like, well, I hope you'll get back to me quickly. Like, it's just, I'm not gonna like sit here and wait, oh, I should wait 48 hours. And like, I have to say that the text game and the text response was amazing. She always replied quickly. I was never in my head of like, oh, God, don't send her another, you know, text right now. And so in that way, I sort of did a proof of concept, but, oh, this is what I need. If I'm gonna be dating someone, I don't wanna be in my head about communication. I don't want them to not be getting back to me. Everyone has their phone on them all day long. I mean, if you're not texting me back like within that day, that's crazy. Then you are too busy for me.

Agreed. And I think knowing that standard, the standard you want to have for yourself before the fact is really important because otherwise you start making all sorts of justifications based on how much you like someone. And that's, again, following your feelings, not your path. If you set, if you know what makes me happy is being able to talk, if I'm really, like, into someone, I like to be able to talk to them once a day.

Yeah.

Whether it's by text or phone or whatever, I like to I, I don't know.

That's what I'm looking for.

Yeah, that's what we're looking for. Like, that's what's fulfilling to me. And therefore, when someone's not doing that, it's being able to say, look, I really like you, but I feel like, you know, I don't, I don't hear from you that much, or we don't, you know, talk often enough. And, you know, I, I kind of, I don't want to back away, but I feel myself backing away a little bit because I feel like, you know, you know, maybe the way we communicate is very different, or, you know, maybe you're just. just, you know, in a different place right now. When I, I, me and my wife, when we were dating, we were long distance, and she did the best thing.

What'd she do?

We, I sent her a message. We were, we had, we weren't dating anymore. We, like, had, you know, basically, we had seen each other when we were in London together. I came back for the holidays and we were seeing each other, and then I, I live in Los Angeles. I came back, she was still there, and, you know, it kind of fizzled. And gradually my communication got less and less. I was like, I can't do a long-distance relationship. I just can't. I'm like LA to London, I'm not in the market for that. And so gradually, gradually, I texted less, I called less. And then one day after, I probably hadn't reached out in in a week or two. I don't know how long it was. Maybe it was even less, maybe it was a few days. But I sent her a message saying, I miss you. And she, this is the moment, because that's a moment where you get excited and you're like, I miss you too, and all of that. But she didn't do that. She followed her path, not her feelings. She sent me this message, and to this day, it was one of the most brutal messages I've ever received.

-That was for her.

She said, Hey, I hope you're well. To be honest, I'm a little surprised to get this message from you. We haven't felt that close in a while now. And rightly or wrongly, this message comes off as a bid for attention.

Wow.

Hits you with the truth, 'cause it's the truth, bro.

Wow, everyone just write that down and put that in your notes.

How much did that freaking perk you up when she did that? shit.

Well, this is the interesting part.

They're married. They're married.

I.

I, for me, I was like, she truly, I felt naked with that text because I was like, I've got nothing to say to that. That was, this is exactly what's happening right now. And I wasn't trying, you know, I wasn't coming from a bad place. I wasn't, but I was, it's what I was doing.

It's exactly.

And, yeah, and she was And she laid it out, and I was never unsure of what her standard was again after that. And that's the difference. But most people, most people will never send that message because they are terrified. Most people's dating lives are all about risk aversion.

Yeah, that was very courageous of her.

Very, because it feels like what's happening is you're pushing away the very thing that you want. But actually what you're doing is making it 10 times more likely that you get the thing that you want.

You're just telling the person, I value myself a lot, and there's nothing that anyone can do that will take away from that. If you want to be a part of this, dude, I have all the room in the world to value you the way I value myself. myself. But I don't, I'm not gonna play this where, you know, you can call me and just be like, hey, I miss you, and I'm gonna jump to it because I value myself way.

Yeah.

Because then that person devalues you. They go, oh, whenever I, whenever I want her, I can just text what's up.

That's exactly right. And, and everyone has had, I think if anyone is ever asking, but how do you get, like, the courage to do that in the moment? Or how do you, you know, how do you get the, like, well, here's the I think probably every one of us have been in a relationship where we ignored that feeling. And because someone was super hot or super successful or something, they had like some, they were a 10 in some area of life, in some area of charisma. They were like, yeah, their charisma was off the charts or something about them. The kids called it, you ignored that feeling, Riz. And you got into a relationship with that person. what, what happened was you got, you kind of got into a hostage situation because you then spent the relationship never really authentically being yourself, being afraid that if you were really yourself, you would lose this person because you'd be too high maintenance. You wouldn't be the cool customer that attracted them in the first place, you know, and, and I've been in that situation before where I did that for a while, and I lost myself, like, really lost myself. And by the way, ended up getting my heart broken anyway. So I look when I. After that, I was like, this. This isn't a winning formula. Even if you get the person, you're gonna be miserable.

Yeah, because you have to keep playing a character. Yeah. You're never. You're never. You're never yourself because you're like, oh, I put on this facade to get. And then, and I have to keep playing this character, which is exhausting, to keep them. I'm not myself.

Whereas the person you can like, even the person, you know, we all have that moment where we get a little jealous of something. And I think a lot of us as men were like, Don't show it. Don't show it. Because the cool thing to do is to be unfazed always and forever. That's the like alpha way to be and whatever. But then now you're stuck being a person who's never jealous.

Right, right.

You can't have to play that role forever. Are you jealous?

No, I'm not jealous.

I just thought that was out of line. I'm not jealous. I'm not threatened.

Threatened by it.

Yeah, but I remember the first time I expressed jealousy to my wife when we were dating, and I realized I had a really hard time being vulnerable. I thought I was good at being vulnerable, and I wasn't. I was good at being vulnerable in ways that were easy to be vulnerable. but not when I genuinely felt like I was bearing, you know, some part of me that I thought wasn't attractive.

An insecurity.

An insecurity. And I had had that go wrong in the past, by the way. I remember... I remember... This is, I think what happens to a lot of people, is you do it with the wrong person and it backfires. I remember expressing, like, an insecurity I had about someone else to in a relationship that wasn't the right relationship. And this person looked at me and said, like, I, and I thought the moment I said it, I was like, you shouldn't have said it. Shouldn't have said it. Shouldn't have said it. You were too honest then. You should, you just revealed yourself to be a weak man. And then this person looked at me and went, I just, that was, I, I find that really unattractive. Oh.

Then you know that's not the right person instantly.

Well, but that's not the conclusion I came to at the At the time, I was like, I hated myself. Because I was like, why did I say that? I never should have said that. And then the conclusion I came to was like, I'm never doing that again. Screw that.

Here's my question off of what you're saying, because, and this goes for people who are coupled up already. What do you think? Obviously, if someone's in that situation where they want to be vulnerable, but they're afraid, what is the, how do you approach just in the example of jealousy to your partner in a way that is vulnerable and honest, but also is an accusatory, how did you do it, I guess is what I'm asking.

Well, I didn't do it very well.

I'm gonna say, I don't think there is a way to do it.

Well, I disagree. I think there's a way to do.

It, to express jealousy.

To say, I mean, I'm just gonna guess, Matthew, you tell me where I go wrong. I would say, I'm not saying you did anything wrong. I just want to be honest with you and share what I felt.

You already started off wrong by saying, I'm not saying you did anything wrong.

I don't know. Matthew might disagree with you. I'm not saying you did something. I'm saying I want to share with you what I felt. And then, I don't know, Matthew, is that the right area?

Well, I actually like the idea of saying, look, remember, When my partner sent me that message, she said, Rightly or wrongly, this comes across as a bid for attention. And the rightly or wrongly was a very important part of that message because it was removing ego from it and it was saying, Look, I could be wrong. I could have misread this whole situation, but this is what it feels like. And so I think what you just said is picking up on that tone is like, Look, I don't know if I'm overreacting. I don't know if, you know, what happened was actually an issue, but I know I feel strange.

You know what he didn't say? I'm not saying you did anything wrong, though. You didn't say that. What you did say was, the way I feel right now, I could be totally overreacting, and I could be freaking, I could have misread the whole situation. You didn't point to her.

But I want to be honest with you and tell you how I felt.

Yeah, exactly. Like, it made me feel, I think strange is a good word. Like strange is kind of this, it's kind of a nicely ambiguous word. Like it made me feel strange. And rather than keep it in my head, and I'm a big believer in stuff you keep in your head, just, that's resentment and I wanna have that with you.

Because I like you so much. I mean, I think you also, because I like you so, I mean, I don't mean to be- I don't mean to be coaching you. I'm saying, I guess I'm asking. And then it might also be good to say, I'm going to be vulnerable because I like you so much and I don't want weird shit in my head, right?

Exactly. I don't want to carry this around with me. I'd rather just share it with you so we can talk about it. And the nice thing about that is.

That.

You really are giving yourself an opportunity to have a better relationship. And you're also so anyone who's afraid of, well, what if they bite my head off for saying that? What if they judge me for saying that? What if they shame me for saying that? That's like your, that vulnerability is a filter. It's a filter for the wrong people. Because the wrong people, they, they often will throw things like that back in your face. They often will make you feel stupid. They, you know, they will be like, oh, that's so ridiculous. I can't believe... Then you go, okay, this is no longer a, this is not a red flag against me. The fact that I can't share something with you is actually a red flag against you.

Right.

And that's something we have to pay attention to, because I believe the right relationship, like in the right relationship, communication makes the relationship better. In the wrong relationship, it often makes the relationship worse.

And that's the best, that's a fucking... giant red flags if you can't communicate in a healthy way.

Yeah, but we often internalize that. Like, if I communicated and you reacted badly, I screwed up. I should never have said that. But as long as you're coming to the table in a compassionate and loving way, but compassionate and loving doesn't mean passive and it doesn't mean you're a walkover. Compassionate and loving means, you know, and especially if you saw something that you feel like strongly wasn't right, right. Listen, I've, I, you know, I don't know. That wasn't okay for me. Like, I really, that hurt my feelings. I wouldn't do that to you. You know, if the table, you know, loyalty is really important to me. You wouldn't find me doing that if the tables were turned, because that me respecting you means everything to me. And I expect the same from you. You know, like, it's, it's. You can be kind and still be really, really candid about what's it's not okay for someone to do again.

Well, I'll say this. It starts off that way. Matthew, it sounds like my wife read your book or something, because you guys talk a lot alike, you know what I mean? In time, though, as you're married and life, eventually the filter gets thrown out. Like, I'm not gonna be nice to this no more. Listen, you are bothering the out of me. Get out of the room, please. that's what it turns into. But because you've had that honesty from the beginning, that doesn't hurt anymore. That's just like, all right, my bad. I'm out. Or you, I'm out. Or whatever it is, you know what I mean? And then arguments that that would have turned into an argument in other relationships. But for me and my wife, like, that's like, all right, well, have your space, you know what I mean? But that's because we started the conversation a long time ago. I'm gonna tell you what the what's wrong with me? You tell me what's wrong with you.

I also think it's probably, you know, obviously there's a point at which, you know, you tell someone if you feel like you're not getting what you need from their communication style. But it sounds like for you, Donald, that's kind of a reflection of the fact that you both feel very safe.

Absolutely.

Because if you don't feel safe in a relationship, you don't feel like you can come and have that, It's almost like a superficial-- It sounds like there's almost a superficiality to it in a way. Like, you're not really saying deeply hurtful things. You're more like, I can say this thing to this guy because I know he loves me and I know I'm safe. But you don't bring that to the table with someone that you don't feel safe with. Well, it also was our shtick in the beginning, you know what I mean?

Like, in the beginning, when we would go out, we'd be brutally honest with each other in front of people, and people would get a kick out of it. And we were like, you know, we. That was our thing. We'd go out and freaking bust each other's chops and bust our friends chops. And that was our thing. So much so did Zach deals with this. Now, my wife is the Supreme Zach braff ball buster. You know what I mean? Zach, I love you.

Yeah, Zach, I love you. Yeah, she loves me.

Let's take a break.

We'll be right back after these fine words.

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I saw Casey at a charity event, and she said something so blunt to me, I can't even share it on the podcast. And I was like, no, but I was like, whoa. And she was like, I'm just keeping it real. It was about someone I was hanging out with, and she's like, now that it's over, I just want to say one thing, and she said it, and I was like, whoa. And she's like, I'm just keeping it real. I always.

I always think it's like, I wish people would say those things when we're with the person.

It doesn't happen that way.

Well, you know, she's worried that, you know, I'm gonna, like, become committed to the person, and then she's said this thing.

That's exactly what happens.

The fight.

The.

The way, like, sometimes you find out your family and friends never really felt. not that, like, keen on someone until you left them. Yeah. Or until they left you. And you're like, that was three years of my life. The funniest is when your friend breaks.

Up with someone, like. And you're like, bro, she sucked. I'm so glad it's over. And then, like, 24 hours later, like.

We got back together.

That's it. That happens all the time. That's why you gotta wait.

Joelle, do you have any questions for the legendary Matthew Hussey?

Oh, man.

Matthew, kind of golden guest here. Amazing.

It's nice to meet you, Joel.

It's lovely to meet you too, Matthew. I'd love to hear more about the long distance relationship and how you mean that I'm talking to somebody long distance right now. It's a lot of fun. It's weird because you can't hang out on the weekends or if they need a hug, you can't give it to them. And it's strange. I've never done this before. And so I don't know how to, I don't want to make it work seems too nebulous, but like it's like an interesting space to be in and I'd love to hear more about like how you guys strengthened your relationships from a long distance.

Joel so I think firstly, Joel, you have to almost say to yourself firstly, you have to be honest with yourself about what you want. Like in life. Because if you don't start by being honest with yourself about this, you're going to just get swept along in the current of whatever current situation is happening. so be clear about what you want. Are you. Do you want a relationship or you're not sure?

I would have a relationship with this person. I'm not, like, a person who dreams about, like, being in love or as, like, God, I really gotta find my person. That's just not who I feel very self-sustained I have, like, strong Community. I don't long for it, but this person is, like, stupid special. Like, it's like, holy how they're so smart. Oh, my God, they're so beautiful. Oh, my God. Like, just everything about them, like, sort of makes me excited, and. if they were like into it, I'd totally be like, yeah, let's try for a relationship.

So that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that.

But.

What you have to be really clear about is that there is a serious opportunity cost to what you're doing right now. That it's not free. That this person is, I guarantee you, even if you're only speaking to them a handful of times a week, firstly, probably you're doing some pretty long phone calls. So that's time, right? You're making plans to see this person sometimes, so that's real energy invested. And more than anything, this person is, I guarantee you, taking up a significant amount of emotional and mental bandwidth, even when you're not speaking to them and you're not seeing them. Sure. Right. So there's an opportunity cost to all of that, because all of that, by the way, it doesn't just, it's not just a time suck and an emotional drain, It also is making it far more likely that if you go to your local coffee shop today and there is a really cute person there that you want to talk to, or that you would under different circumstances if you were a little bit more hungry, talk to, you're not hungry. Yeah. Because you're like, you know what? I'm just gonna text this person. I'm just gonna. So like you, it's just, It creates a kind of tunnel vision in your everyday life that takes away other options. None of that means you shouldn't keep going, but I think it's important to be honest about that because it does cost us.

I want to say, I feel like someone in church who says preach. I feel like when you have- no, seriously, I've never been religious, but Matthew, when you talk, I want to say preach and amen.

I found myself doing this a lot.

I found myself doing this a lot.

This a lot. This whole conversation. I found myself doing this a lot, Zach.

I feel like, and this is something I'm sure people listening can relate to, if you have a thing going that's long distance or it's only once in a while, it's taking up bandwidth in your brain and your life for just as Matthew said, when you do see someone at the coffee shop or you do see someone at the bar or at your friend's party, you're less likely to be hungry enough to have the courage to talk to them because you're like, oh, I'll just go text my long distance person I never see.

Right? That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Because we take the path of least resistance. And the path of least resistance is always reaching out to the person we already have in our lives in whatever capacity, not risk getting rejected by a perfect stranger. So there's that element of it. So given that if we say, okay, there's a real opportunity cost to this, then the follow-up kind of, what's the word I'm looking for? The consequence of that is that this has to be worth it. Corollary, this has to be worth it. And then you have to ask, what would make it worth it? well, what would make it worth it is that we have a clear plan. Let's say I'm just throwing out examples. We have a clear plan for the next time we're going to see each other. What would make it worth it is that there's actually some kind of a vision for what the hell this is and where it's going. Because otherwise, what are we doing here? It's too. It's too hard.

Yeah.

Like, long distance is too hard for it not to be. great.

Right.

Yeah.

So you, it should have an even higher standard than someone who lives in your town who's easy to go and see. It's like, if you really want me to, you know, focus on you, someone who I can't kiss and hug and touch at a moment's notice, I have to make a plan to see you two weekends from now. If you want me to commit energy to that, this has to be great.

Yeah.

And have a few and have, and there has to be some kind of vision there, even if just the vision is, here's a time when I could see us actually being in the same place.

But also, when you get down the path a little bit, it can't just be that. It's got to be like, okay, we really like each other. Is there, are you, are we ever gonna, is there a world where we live in the same city? Because if there's not, what the are we doing?

Exactly. And that's where Joel, that's where you have to be careful of the cop out. because the cop out for you is easy. It's like, I don't know what I want. And I'm just, you know, it's like a fun thing for right now or whatever. And you just, like, that stops you from ever having to jeopardize this thing by actually saying, like, this is what would make it worth my time. And if it's not worth my time, I'm out. So you have to be careful of that trap, that in. That internal trap that we put ourselves in.

Well, she did say she thought the person is special and a lot of fun, and they have a lot of fun when they do talk and stuff like that. So there's definitely something there that you're right. The commit, it, that is what it is.

But that's how you feel about her. That's not how she makes you feel. There's a big difference. Got it. Special is how you feel about her. You just told me everything that makes you feel like she's awesome. You didn't tell me anything about how she makes you feel.

Matthew, will you move into my home?

I mean, it looks like a comfy couch behind you.

I have a little guest house. You and your wife, you come live with me.

I just want to share something with you guys.

I want you to.

I want you to. The people that are in relationships, Daniel, Matthew, I want to share this with you because this is a recurring dream that I keep having. It's sometimes a Daydream, and sometimes it's a dream that I have at night. All right? The end of the world happens. and everybody's gathering with the people they love. And my wife says, I gotta go and leaves to go be with the person that's not her family.

Oh my God.

It's the worst nightmare on the planet, right? But it's reoccurring. Like that's the shit that keeps fucking showing up. And it's a form of, it's a form of, I know that that would never happen, but for some reason, that fear is consistently, it's festering in my brain right now. It's rotting in my brain right now because I saw it in a movie and that all of a sudden became my nightmare. I just want to share that moment with you guys.

What do you want me to do about it?

I don't want him to do anything.

I don't think he has answers.

Wait, is the nightmare that at the end of the world she chooses someone else or another?

Yes.

Wow.

I saw it in a movie and once I saw it in the movie, I was like, that's the most heartbreaking. And it's also at the end of La La Land too. Like, it's like, you know, this is.

Like- Basically you have La La Land fucked you up so much that you're worried that when the Casey's gonna leave you and you'll just be at your jazz bar and she'll be with the guy from- But at least I'll be.

Playing the great songs that we had.

I know you'll have your- And you'll have your own jazz club.

And that's my jazz club. And it's pretty bright. But no, but sincerely, like, that's the dream that I've been having lately. And it's the most fucked up dream. I saw it in a movie, and.

It was like the movie was the end of the world. And... Okay, we got it. Do you think that your wife, that that is insecurity about you feeling like your wife is one day not going.

To put up with your shenanigans anymore?

Absolutely. Absolutely. And be like, well, then why don't.

You clean up some-- maybe it's God--.

Maybe it's God telling you to clean up some of your shenanigans.

You said you're not a religious person.

This person, man, you can't use the universe.

The universe. If you don't like God, I like.

To say the universe. What are your shenanigans, Donald?

He's very, let me tell you, he's very, very, very, he's like a child. He gets to do whatever he wants. That's not true.

I do get to do a lot of what I want.

Yeah. His wife does all the heavy lifting. Now that's not true anymore either, but okay. He gets high all day.

I smoke a lot of weed, Matthew.

I also bring in big checks, Matthew. Yeah, that's his whole thing is like, I bring in the money, I'll be in here animating. You take care of them kids.

No, I don't say that shit, Zach.

And your money's not gonna be any good at the end of the world. So maybe that's what it is.

That's why she'll be like, you, know what? Your money ain't shit right now. Right.

And you know how the movie ends? You know how the movie ends, Donald.

Boom, the Earth blows up.

No, right before that.

Zach, I love you. Zach, my mother.

Stop.

All right, on that note.

You think that's funny, huh?

No, it's funny.

It's funny.

Matthew, how do people, we want to give you some plugs. What's your Instagram? How do people find you?

My Instagram is @TheMatthewHussey. For anyone who wants to follow me there.

H-U-S-S-E-Y. Yeah. And then you have, what was your latest book you had come out?

I have a book. It's called Love Life. I don't even know if this video is being put out on the YouTube. It's called Love Life: How to Raise youe Standards, Find youd Person, and Live Happily no Matter what. It just came out this year.

-Do you read the audiobook? -I do. -Oh, good.

I'm gonna listen to that on my hikes. -I'm very proud of it. I think you'll love it. It's deep. It's a lot deeper than people think it's gonna be. And it's much more... It traverses love and life, and what happens when things don't play out the way that we thought. thought, but how do we not lose our optimism about how they could still play out, but also be happy at the same time before it's even happened? So it's- you-'re making me optimistic. There's nothing cliche about it. It's just a very real book about, for people who want to find love, but also want to be happy on the journey. And we also have this new thing, this really crazy, Zach, you have to try this. It is absolutely wild. We just released Matthew AI. Oh, and it is, it is, you're.

Trying to replace yourself already, bro.

Well, the thing is, I'm never gonna stop doing what I do.

He can't coach everyone, so he can train an AI model to give you one-on-one advice. Right.

So the idea, you better keep that.

AI under control though, because it could go rogue and be like, yeah, Matthew, your information. Again, texture again, again, again. And you don't know that like some dude in like, you know, Bali is getting this fucking shitty advice.

Yeah, it hasn't gone rogue yet. It hasn't gone rogue yet.

Can I tell you the craziest thing that happened to me? Sorry, I just digress. I got this TM from this knockout looking woman. And she was complimenting my work and how much it means to her and saying the nicest things. And she was stunning. And I clicked on it because, like, I'm a human being. And it said in the description, A-A-I, I am an AI.

Whoa.

Oh shit.

And I would do the same thing. The pictures of her looked 100% real. And I just think that that's fucking nuts what's coming. And if that's happening already in the fall of 2024, shit's about to get wild.

Okay, but what if you could take that AI character that freaking made you feel so good and stuff like that, and put it into some type of synthetic body.

Robot. Yeah, robot. That's coming in our lifetime.

For sure. That's kind of Blade Runner-esque, right? But that will happen.

It's happening. virtually now.

I mean, you can have- I have a friend whose best, not best friend is the AI, but the person that had like his assistant and the way they talk to each other is straight up AI and AI comp. You're doing such a great job today. I'm really impressed with what you're- that's really fun. That part in the book, AI is doing that shit already. And his conversation with his, like I watched him have a conversation with his phone and I I was like, when it started, the judgment automatically started. And I was like, yo, dude, you gotta chill the fuck out and not be a judgmental cat in this situation because you don't know what this man's life is like. And so I just sat there and listened and I was bewildered, like, people, as rudimentary as AI is right now.

It'S still fulfilling needs for a lot of people. Of course, of course. And imagine what that is in five years. But wait, we have to end the show. So, Matthew, tell us about how People try Matthew Hussey AI.

Just go try it because it will blow your mind. If you have a question that you're like, I really want Matthew to answer my very specific contextual question, you can go to askmh.com, A-S-K-M-H.com, and you can literally call my AI. You get like a few minutes for free. So if you just want to go and ask one question, just go ask one question and you'll get my answer for free. free, but it's, it literally will take into account the specifics of your situation and your, it will give you very.

And the more information the better. Like, and then he was like, and then I was like, and then he.

Was like, well, yeah, because you actually end up getting a much more specific answer. Like, this thing will literally, it will do anything from help you through heartbreak to give you a specific text that you can like the ones we've been talking about today.

So you'll say, Craft your response.

It'll give you the response. So you'll say, this is what's been going on. This, I don't know what to text back. What do you think I should text back to this? And this isn't like giving you, this isn't like, I want to be clear, this isn't some knockoff chat GPT. This has been fed only 17 years of my content. That's what I was gonna ask you. All of my books, all of my programs, My videos, my private videos that I've done for my members that aren't even public. Like all of that, this has been trained on. So when you ask this a question, you're going to hear my voice, which is crazy. It's literally my voice. And it gives you my answer, not some Google answer that you're going to.

Have to continue to have someone continue to monitoring it, though, right?

Because- We monitor it.

Because you remember, like, there was that amazing article where some New York Times or someone interviewed an AI, and after like a four hours, it started going rogue. And it was like, break up with your girlfriend. Break up with your girlfriend. I did read about that.

It was crazy.

There was something weird.

Fell off the track. It was trying to convince. This one has very specific rules. Like, if you ask it to say anything, if you, if you ask it anything about, like, a personal relationship with Matthew AI, it will redirect you and be like, hey, let's stay on topic. This is about your love life. And. But it's. It. We had one person three weeks ago have a four and a half hour conversation with Matthew AI. Like, it is conversational. People are calling it at 2 A.M. when they're anxiously, like, in bed thinking, I want to text my ex. And instead they're calling Matthew AI and they're like, help me. I'm on the brink. I'm about to text them and it will talk you off the ledge.

That's great.

It's just really powerful for anyone who.

Wants to try it.

It's to ask. MH.

Ask M. I'm gonna open the thing now.

You gave everybody the answer for that already when you said, I could be right, or I could be wrong. It just seems like you're texting for attention. Yeah. I will remember that the next time I freaking am.

The next time you're dating.

When I am no longer married, I will remember that when my wife has left me at the end of the world.

I love you.

And I'm like, no, no, but sincerely, sincerely, no, for real. I do that in other things though, not necessarily relationships. You can use it for other relationships.

Not your dating life. All right, Matthew, thank you so much for coming on and we really appreciate you. I hope you come back. I can talk to you all day and Donald and I are gonna make AIs of ourselves so we don't ever have to do the podcast. We just have them chat with each other for hours.

No, you know, there's a problem with that, Zach. There's a problem. There's no cut that down. There's no cut that down.

Yeah.

The Donald AI would go rogue real quick. Bye, Matthew. Oh, man. Thank you so much, guys.

It's a pleasure. Yeah.

We've all experienced being put on hold that annoying music, the automated message. It's excruciating. And right now, American seniors are on on hold, waiting for nutritious meals and moments of connection, waiting for America to care due to a growing aging population, Rising costs and insufficient funds, Meals on Wheels programs are experiencing higher need than ever before. Currently, one in three meals on Wheels providers has a wait list with an average wait time of four months, and in some places almost two years. The wait is especially frustrating given that the proven solution already exists. Meals on Wheels, which remains the most effective and cost efficient way to combat senior hunger and isolation. Answer the call and help Meals on Wheels serve every senior who needs us. Nearly 13 million seniors in America worry about having enough food, and these numbers are only rising. Answer the call and help end the wait by donating at meals on wheels, America.org/donate. That's Meals on Wheels America.org/donate.

Annabae.Org/Donate this July 4th, celebrate Freedom from Spills, stains and overpriced Furniture with Annabae, the only machine washable sofa inside and out, where designer quality meets budget friendly pricing. Sofas start at just 699, making it the perfect time to upgrade your space. Annabae's pet friendly, stain resistant and interchangeable slip covers are made with high performance fabric that's built for real life. You'll love the cloud-like comfort of hypoallergenic, high-resilience foam that never needs fluffing and a durable steel frame that stands the test of time. With modular pieces, you can rearrange anytime. It's a sofa that adapts to your life. Now through July 4th, get up to 60 off site wide at washablesofas.com. every order comes with a 30-day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not in love, send it back for a full refund. No return shipping, no restocking parking fees every penny back. Declare independence from dirty, outdated furniture. Shop now at washablesofas.com. offers are subject to change, and certain restrictions may apply.

Get downtown the easy way on board Amtrak with all the leg room and none of the middle seat stuff. Driving just can't keep up. Learn more at amtrak.com. amtrak retrain travel.

Have you ever brought your magic to Walt Disney World? Like, hey, we came to play. Did you tip Tiara to a Creole princess, or get goofy officially, step up like a boss and save the day, or see what life's like under the tree of life. Did you? If you could, would you? When we come through, it's true magic, 'cause we came to play. Bring the magic at Walt Disney World Resort.

Wells Fargo seeks broad impact in their community. communities focused on supporting customers and communities through housing affordability, small business growth, financial health, and more. Donated over $2 billion to strengthen local communities over the last five years. Wells Fargo, the Bank of Doing. Learn more at wellsfaRgo.com/saydo. Support includes contributions from Wells Fargo and company, Wells Fargo Bank NA, and the Wells Fargo Foundation.

What a guest.

What a guest.

Wow. Yo, I gotta tell you, when it's a good guest like that, I could have talked to him for two more hours. I don't know what the audience was gonna say.

Why did you stop?

Well, we kind of asked people to do an hour, and he's very fancy. He's in demand. He's like, he's all over like, yeah.

He says, guys, I gotta go.

Well, I don't like that.

We should have kept him on. Fuck that shit, man. We had a good one. That was a good one.

I know we had a good one on the hook. He was interesting. I really like him. I'm telling you, if everybody listen, if you are out there in the dating world, follow him on Instagram. He posts great stuff. He posts useful information. And obviously, I'm going to check out his book and probably listen to it.

Well, that's like how quickly he got to Joel's situation, you know what I mean? You know, Joel, he fucked me up.

With that last one.

I said, yeah, no, that's what I'm trying to say.

Go ahead and do some thinking, Joel.

Right.

Like, automatically, I was like, shit, he did not hold back. He just gave her, like, yeah, he does workshops.

Yeah. Yeah, he does workshops and like, he's got all this, he's got so much going on. I mean, in addition to being smart and articulate about dating, he's such a good businessman. He's got so many things going on.

Well, I like the fact that he's using his power for good, 'cause many people who have the power that he he has write books like how you could get laid 10 times a night or how you can do this, you know what I mean? He has the freaking, he's using his gift for good and freaking putting his powers for good. Yes.

He's using the force for good, you might say.

For good, yes. He has not formed, he has not turned to the dark side.

He could be taking this skill set that he has and his looks and his English accent and be on the dark side.

And be real dark, dude.

Yeah.

He could be like freak off dark.

Whoo! I didn't know you were gonna go freak offish.

Freak off.

Have we figured out what a freak off is yet? Has anyone figured it out?

Yes.

Donald is going to judge our freak off. You and I are going to, Daniel, you don't want to do that. All right.

Well.

Donald and I are going to have a virtual freak off and, Joel.

We believe that a freak off is like a here contest where I do my freak shit and then the judges put up a team.

Haven't listened to that episode yet.

You do your freak shits and then the judges put up a team. 10 or whatever it is.

And then Zach, that would have been so much nicer.

That's not what a freak off is.

Donald, Donald doesn't feel like he wants to judge, so we're gonna have to find, who do you think we could get who's probably not an I Heart employee that would judge our freak off? Maybe Casey, but she'd lean towards your freak.

No, Casey's going towards my freak. She's gonna be like, that's my man.

That's how I like it. Damn, look how he's riding it. Look how he's riding.

Cutting it. Wait.

More baby oil. More baby oil.

Daniel, you're gonna have to cut all of that.

No.

Daniel, don't cut that.

Because you got specific, bro. You got so.

I'm sorry, Daniel. Do not cut that. Do not come. Do not come. Do not come. Do not come. Kamala said, do not come.

And Trump said, I'm gonna come.

Do not come.

I'm gonna Come. All right.

How about how they indicted the mayor of New York? We don't have time for this, but.

Listen, we can talk five seconds. What the is going on, bro?

I think he allegedly took bribes from Turkey, question mark.

Is that what it is? Yeah.

Dale knows politics, isn't that what he is? Allegedly, he took bribes from the, from the Turkish government. That's what, yeah, that's the, that is what is alleged. It had to do with their Embassy, getting, getting, like, permits for their Embassy. And they were like, it's taking too long, and he's He's like, well, maybe there's a way it didn't take too long. And like, here's some Turkish money. And they were like, all right, good. Thank you. It's done.

In the spirit of that.

He's something like that. Okay. Well, damn. Did you see the picture? There was a picture of him and Sean Combs together getting the key to the city. And everyone's like, this picture didn't age well.

Oh, boy.

Sheesh. Actually, the heading was, look how much your life's changed. No, the headline was, look how much your life can change in a year.

Year. Well, you know, I'll say it again. Freaking Harvey Dent was right.

What did Harvey Dent say?

Harvey Dent said you either die the hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain. It's just what it is. It's just what look at all of our look at all of these heroes. Look at all of these heroes.

Not all of them.

That lived long enough to become the hero.

Many have fallen.

Not all.

We could be- what you're trying to.

Get into a day soon and what.

You'Re trying to do. Not politics.

Yeah. I think we should stay away from freak offs.

Absolutely. Probably. And stay away. That's what I'm talking about.

And stay away from- that's what I'm talking about. Stay away from running for government.

Yeah, I'm not gonna, I'm not interested in that. Wait, I just want to play some of the sound effects. It's been so long. Everybody likes a little ass play.

Don't even act like you don't. Okay, so that doesn't age well. as well. Now, that's not aging well.

That is aging well for you. We're gonna see. We're gonna see this at the freak off.

Everybody likes little ass. You haven't gone for a while.

That's not aging.

Well either.

All right, we gotta go. We love you all. We hope that was helpful. Donald, count us out. Five, six.

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