Sexual Confidence & How to Show It (with Emily Morse)

High interest debt is one of the toughest opponents you'll face unless you power up with a SOFI personal loan. A SoFi personal loan could repackage your bad debt into one low fixed rate monthly payment. It's even got superspeed since you could get the funds as soon as the same day you sign. Visit sofi.compower to learn more. That's s o-fi.com P-O-W-E r loans originated by SoFi bank and a member. FDIC terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891 SAM.

Hey everyone, it's Matthew. Welcome to the Love Life Podcast. It's more than just me. Today we have Dr. Emily Morse joining the Love Life podcast. The world renowned sex therapist, the host of Sex with Emily, the major podcast that she has had for a long time, and author of the new book Smart Sex, Dr. Emily Morse is second to none when it comes to the world of sex therapists. Sex advice and we talk about all different aspects of sex in early dating. How to accept ourselves and our body, how to connect with our sexuality, dealing with our intimacy issues, sex in relationships. It is a powerful conversation and for anyone who's a Love Life Club member, you also get access to the second hour with me and Emily where we answer Love Life Club member questions. We bring some people on live and we talk about a whole bunch of subjects in more depth that we cover in the first hour. To unlock access to the full conversation with Dr. Emily Morse, you can go to joinlovelife.com and get your free trial right now to become a member. Now I present to you Dr. Emily Morse. I am here with Dr. Emily Morse.

Hello. Welcome back. So good to be here. This is always a good time.

We had so much fun last time and we got to answer so many of our Love Life Club member questions. You are just the best of to me. You are second to none in your department and you are able to make subjects that other people squirm around feel so safe and so easy to talk about and that what could be more a reflection of how seasoned you are and how long you've been doing this and how good you are. Because it's a subject that in a way, I feel like one of the reasons you exist and have to exist is that so many people feel like they just don't know how to have these conversations and yet they're at the heart of this crucial part of our personality and our needs.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, I think that we all, none of us had great Sex education. None of us grew up in environments where people were talking about sex in a healthy way. And there's so much misinformation about it. So, yeah, if I can normalize it, make us all feel good, like, it's just sex. Let's have some fun with it and talk about it in a way that isn't so shameful and weird.

Yeah.

And awkward.

Yeah, that's so that idea that it's just sex is so important because I've. I don't know where it came from. You may know who said it originally or whatever, but that I once heard, if sex is good, like, if it's taken care of, you talk about it 20% of the time. If it's a problem, it's 80%.

Exactly. It's true. That is a real quote. That when it's a problem, it is a problem. When everything's great and we're coasting, sex is. We don't even think about it. But when it's a problem, it takes over the relationship because it's a problem. But then we don't know what to do about it. Like, if our car breaks down, we take it to a mechanic. We've got some psychological things. We go to a therapist, we talk about it. Problems with business, Business coach. But sex, where do we go? Who do we talk to? We feel bad about. We have shame. So we just sort of. It becomes bigger and bigger. We don't know how to quite like, even how to get a handle on it. So that's what we'll do today.

That's why I'm so excited about you being in the Love Life Club is because it's a place where people can actually talk about these things. And I want. I asked for questions beforehand from people, and we're going to go into those at the end of this session because there was some really pointed questions that people asked that I know in other environments in their lives. They're not asking those questions, and they're asking them here. So I'm excited to get to those. You have a new book. I'm going to start by telling everyone that because Emily's book is called Smart Sex. This is. We were just talking about this. I think that you released a book around 12 years ago, which was a more specific book in its approach. But this is like your life's work.

This is my life's work in one place. Exactly.

So I'm excited to get. This is called Smart Sex for anyone who wants to know. And I know by the end of this session if you didn't know Emily already, you're going to go and get a copy of this because you're going to see how much great stuff she has to offer. But we're going to get into some of what's in the book. We're going to get into the areas that affect people most here. One of the things you talk about in the book is sexual iq. When you say that, what do you mean by sexual iq?

What I mean by sex IQ is.

Or sex iq.

Sex iq? Yeah. Sexual intelligence, essentially. So what happened was I was writing this book and again, it was two decades of doing this work. I was like, okay, I'm gonna write down every, I'm gonna answer every question that people have about sex. I'm gonna give them all the tips I'm gonna give them, you know, every position, every sex toy, every move. Like everything that people want to know about sex is in this book. And it's broken down into like, you know, if you want to know, masturbation and oral sex and all the things. And then I was writing and I thought, you know, people always come to me for this quick fix. They're like, what can I do about this, you know, orgasm problem or this, you know, how do I make this move? And then I realized that sex isn't about a quick fix. Like, I can help you. I can definitely give everyone. And today we're going to help people take the next step. But holistically, sex IQ is that sex is a foundational part of our overall well being. And there isn't just one thing thing that there's. So I created these five pillars of sexual intelligence that we can get into. But really it's about, you know, realizing that you can't have healthy sex without understanding that it's your emotional intelligence, your self awareness, your self acceptance, how embodied you are, how's your physical health and your mental health? All these factors are contributing it. And it's not just about a position or the right move or even an orgasm. There's a holistic approach to becoming sexually intelligent. And all, all these things are constantly changing throughout our lifetime. We need to monitor them and understand them that they're all playing into each other.

So could you give us the summary of those five pillars? Just, I feel like that sounds like a great structure for us to start.

Yeah. Okay, so here's the structure of it. So it's. The first one is embodiment. How embodied am I during sex? For example, am I present? Am I feeling a partner's body or in my Head worrying about what I'm doing. Am I disassociating or am I present? And I've got tips for people of how to stay present during sex. Because, Matthew, one of the top questions I get asked is, how do I stay focused during sex? Like, how do I worry about all these things? The second one is health. Your overall health and wellness. Am I eating right? Am I moving my body? Listen, pleasure and orgasm is all about blood flow. If you're not exercising on a regular basis, if you're not eating healthy foods, it's going to impact your sex life. And then the other part of health the most is your mental health. Do you have untreated trauma? Have you dealt with your issues? It's an ongoing process. We never solve them. But have you been in therapy? The third one is collaboration. How well do I communicate to my partner my needs? Do I let them know what I want in bed? Do I know what I want in bed? Do I have shame around sex? So collaboration. The next one is self acceptance. This is a tough one. Am I accepting my body as it is today? My experience? You know, maybe. A lot of times you hear this from probably people all the time, saying, gosh, my partner has had so many more partners than I have in the bedroom. How am I going to measure up? So do I accept my body and my experience today? That's really the confidence piece. And the last one is self knowledge. How well do I know myself? Do I know what I even like? Do I know what I like in the bedroom? Do I know what I like in a partner? Do I know what is required for me to feel good during sex, during intimacy? What have I learned from my past? And so all of those things are going to contribute to you being sexually intelligent, sexually present and sexually healthy.

I don't know where to start.

It's a lot to unpack. We've got time.

I have so many things to ask. I. That's. Those are great. And it just. What it sums up to me is that you can't. You cannot talk about sex without talking about life, the human experience.

Exactly. It all is in the bedroom with you, every time you're having sex. But, Matthew, what I realized, and literally it wasn't until halfway through the book, was like, okay, check. I've got the oral sex chapter. Check. I've got the masturbation chapter. But wait a minute. What if you've untreated trauma? What if you're not exercising? So. So, yeah, there's a lot. And I just. And not to overwhelm people. But to say it's okay, like we all. We got this, we can get through this. Just like know that you're okay and we can work through all of these pillars together.

I love that it's a holistic approach and it acknowledges the true foundational pillars that are there when it goes right and the where it goes wrong for us in ways that are hidden and we don't even see or talk about or aren't even necessarily conscious of. And it talks about. There's this guy, John Kay, who wrote a book called Obliquity. And the idea behind this book was that results in life are best achieved indirectly.

Oblique. Oblique.

Oblique, yeah, oblique. But the idea that when we have a goal, achieving it obliquely is the best way that if you want to be wealthy, focusing on becoming a person of value, focusing on creating something that the world needs, focusing on serving your customers and taking care of them, that's how you get rich. You don't focus on money. And there's an oblique approach going on here that actually one of the greatest ways to improve your sex life, the great ways to improve your sex life can actually be oblique. It could be all the things you don't even necessarily associate with sex that feedback in.

Yes.

So given that there's so much here, what have you experienced as the best way in. If people could focus on one thing first that would improve their sex life of all of these things, what do you think it would be?

It's such a great question. I love this question. And first it's going back to the oblique thing. I was going to say it's almost like how it focuses on money with sex. Everyone focuses on orgasm. That would be the equivalent. And it's not about orgasm. So we can come back to that. So the first thing, Gosh, I think that everybody can start. I would say the most important thing is to look at is your own. I would say it's self acceptance. It starts with yourself in a way. This book and the work I do is about like, you know, remember the Joy of Sex was that book that came out many years ago. This is like the joy of you, the joy of being you on the planet and who you are as a sexual being. So I would say everyone can start looking at their own sexual messaging. And I would say for women in particular, masturbation. I'm just gonna put it out there. So. And this is all coming from experience. Okay, I'm all with you. I was not born knowing all of this stuff. I had to go through a period of having sex that wasn't satisfying. Not knowing my body, relying on my partners. I used to think that men were shipped off to some secret school where they learned all the parts of the woman's body and they knew. Like I literally thought, if only. I know. I thought because I was like, well, I saw. Certainly don't know because they must know. So then I would be in these relationships. This is like the easiest way I can explain is truly by being with you. I want to be real with people and tell you that like, I thought that they would know what felt good and they would eventually figure it out. And then I would get disappointed when the sex wasn't satisfying. And this is just my own. Hopefully people know more now. I'm talking about like almost 20 years ago now when I started this work. So then I realized that, well, how are they going to know what I realized in studying this? That I needed to have like, figure out my own body and get in there and be like, what makes me feel good. And for a lot of guys, I don't have to often remind men to masturbate to self pleasure. Like, they're good, right? They got that.

Yeah, we got it covered.

They're like, we're good. We know we're in. I'm like, dude, you're at Walgreens. You don't even do it now. Stop. But with women, I often, they often think like, you got this. But with women, they're like, well, either they have shame around it, they don't love their parts. Maybe they grew up in an environment where they were told that like masturbation is wrong or it was sinful. Unfortunately, we don't move out of our home and then we realize that it's okay. We still hear these messages or maybe they just never quite figured it out. So it takes time. Learn your own body. So I would say it starts with taking even another thing is take a mirror and look between your legs and see what's going on and understand how it's all working when you get aroused, what looks. Because it's really a. It's your own machinery. So get in there. Understand. I have a lot of tips in the book too about solo sex and learning to make that something that's actually pleasurable and enjoyable. So I would say that's going right in there. But I would think that that would be one of the best places to start.

And yeah, and if people, you know, a big part of sex for people is feeling sexy. Right. It's almost that element of in some way turning yourself on or knowing feeling, feeling sexy about yourself. But it's something that so many people don't feel they can relate to because you know, maybe it's because they don't like their body. Maybe it's because of much their body has changed over time. Maybe it's because they don't associate their age with sexiness and there's conditioning there. How can someone who doesn't accept their body right now feels like. But I'm, you know, people may have a story that I'm objectively not sexy, I'm objectively not attractive and I don't feel that way about myself. So what do you suggest for people when they're starting from that place?

That's such a great question. I think that being sexy and feeling sexy is so interesting. It's such an interesting concept for women because so many of us are taught we have to look a certain way to be sexy, but we don't actually feel it right. So I think that the first thing would be probably the first pillar too which is embodiment. And I know for me when I've had times and again all this stuff is you don't arrive to a place where you're fully embodied. You don't arrive to a place where you don't check it off the list. This is constantly changing throughout our lifetime and maybe even throughout the week for some women. Right. Like I think that women, we have to remember that our life is like on this cycle, like a 28 day cycle for many of us. And our hormones are changing throughout the months, our body's changing, our arousal cycles. And so I want women to tap in and realize that we also kind of have to work at that and know that like it is true that when a woman is ovulating many women are more likely to feel sexier and to want more sex that time. So just starting to pay attention to those things. But for me like embodiment is a really big part of it and that's like the things the tips I give for women is getting into like a. These are the things that allow women to feel more I think embodies like movement, dancing, breathwork, nature. And these might all sound. I don't want to go off into more of a like a woo place but that's where the feminine energy lives being comfortable in our bodies. For me a really big thing that helped me was these pole dancing. So Sheila Kelly S factor I don't know, she's been around for almost 20 years and she teaches these classes for women and at first when I heard about it, I thought, okay, well, this is another thing that women got to do. I got to get on a stripper pole and I got to look hot for my partner. Like, this is. I thought it was another part of the patriarchy trying to control my body. But I realized that pole dancing, the whole thing about it was, you're not even really on the pole. It's about the escalation curve of your body and breathing into your pelvic floor. And so for me, it was about movement and dance and breath work. And so a great way to feel sexually. I can help everyone right now if all the women listening, and men too, if you practice breathing. So here's what happens. Here's where sexiness comes from. I'm just kind of go. I'm going to go into the body. Now is that a lot of women walk around. Men too. But we're talking about, for women, very disconnected from our bodies. Okay. So all day long, like, I might have put the makeup on and I'm walking around, I'm doing things, I'm at the bar, but I am not connected to my bodily wisdom. My pelvic floor, where all the wisdom is maybe because I don't like my body, I'm not feeling great, I've gained weight, all the things. And then we get into the bedroom with someone and we're naked, and we're like, why don't I feel hot? Why don't I feel turned on? Well, all day long I've been disconnected, not loving my body, not touching it. So a great exercise is just doing some breath work. And we could all even do that where you take, like, five deep breaths in. And when we do this, do you mind if we do this real quickly, please? You. Like, we can breathe for a minute, and then we're gonna do a little Kegel. And this is what I wanna say, is that men can do them as well. It's essentially your pelvic floor. It's like the p stopping muscles where you stop and start the flow of urine. And that's also where your sexual energy resides. It's a way of waking it up and saying, hello, I'm in touch with you. And if you do this just a few minutes a day or before you're going into any sexual situation or before your masturbation practice, you're going to start to connect more to the source that is your sexual energy that's going to remind you who you are and how to sort of awaken.

Amazing.

We go there for a minute.

Yeah. Please.

Okay, let's do a count of. Let's do five in. And then we're gonna do a Kegel, and then we're gonna release for six, and maybe we can do three.

Can I ask a question?

Yeah.

For men, how do I do a Kegel?

Okay, great. So a Kegel are the. And I love that you're asking this, because men. So let me tell you. Women are often told about Kegel exercises. It's the p stopping muscles where you stop and start the flow of urine. So let's say you're going to the bathroom right now and someone knocks on the door. You want to stop like it's that muscle.

Got it?

Okay. So it's that right there, and you just tense it and relax it. And how you do Kegel is you hold it for about three seconds. You release for three seconds. So one more note about the pelvic floor is that for men, the more you do your kaggle exercises, it can help you last longer in bed, have stronger erections. It helps you just be more in touch, too. And for women, it can help straight. It's essentially, it's the muscles that are responsible for orgasm. So the stronger these muscles are, you'll experience stronger orgasms if you've had, you know, over time, like, urinary incontinence, sneezing, and peeing. So this is all strengthening that whole area. So that's what it is. And it's also where our sexual energy resides.

All right.

Okay.

On your cue.

Let's do it. All right, so we're gonna go breathe in for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. We're inhaling, and then we're going to squeeze there. Do a Kegel. Hold it, and then exhale. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. You can squeeze again. Do a kettle at the bottom. Release it. Inhale. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Squeeze, release. 1, 2, 3, four, five. Squeeze, release. Inhale. One, two, three, four, five. Inhale, and then we'll squeeze, and then we'll exhale. One, two, three thousand four, five. One more squeeze, and then release. Okay. Okay. How y' all feeling? Connected. A little bit more connected. Do you see what I mean?

I like that exercise.

Did you like it? It's good, right? I've never done it in a Live with God know how people are watching. So that was new for me, too, to do that with all of you here. I used to do it.

Did you do it?

One day I saw. Yeah, she was doing it. Were you all doing it? Did you feel. A little bit.

Did you do it? Anique.

What was the. Did you feel a little bit more sensual? Sensual, right, right. You feel like, oh, hello. And then the next exercise for them is we're gonna get in there. So now I hope that for a lot of women listening and men that you felt a little bit like, all right, that's the energy. So that's the movement I'm talking about. And then there's like some swaying of your hips because now we've circulated the energy and you start moving and there is some exercise. I don't know if anyone ever does like yoga. There's like the cat cow position where you're, you're in your, what's it called, your tabletop and you're breathing in and out. And there's a lot of exercises that you can do that sort of work this area. So it's really just a moving and a circulating and then there's some dancing and there's some movement. So it's all about this area and I think just some easy breath. Even Audrey just said it, she feels it a little bit more in touch. Maybe for the first time today, maybe for the first time in a while.

Hopefully with Audrey, not the first time.

In a while since this morning. I say, I do know.

I really love this because it's, it highlights the importance of. How do I say it? So many people aren't actually haven't been used to really using their bodies in a while. You know that especially if we don't, if we don't even have an exercise routine, then we don't even get it from that.

Right.

But then some of the things you're talking about which make you feel different things, whether it's dancing, you know, I dance sometimes, you know, and I have, over the years I've had someone like an instructor that I dance with. And it's, you know, even that it's not even like a, it's not salsa or something sexy. It's like just hip hop or whatever. But I just move in your body? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just that feeling of you come out of it feeling different. And the idea that whether it's yoga or even just doing an exercise like this, it's actually getting us to just connect again with our bodies. And it sounds like anytime I used to hear words, you know, like get into your body, I know, embodiment or whatever, I always used to kind of associate that with a kind of woo woo.

I did too. And that's why I was like, guys hang out with me. We don't use, we get to blow job tips but no, I mean, no, I get it. Because you know what I'm saying, it's so important. It's like, ah, yeah, because it's real.

There's a real benefit to that. And so many people, especially as they get older, they start to lose some of the, you know, just the activities that we do that connect us to our bodies start to fall off.

Exactly.

And it's amazing how much something can throw us. Like me and Audrey went away in the last year and a time when I was not feeling body confident because I just was. I'd let myself go and I was in a time where I was eating badly a lot. I was. We were traveling, I wasn't exercising. And I remember being on this trip and just not. I didn't feel like myself. I didn't feel like I wasn't feeling good in my body. And I was. It was crazy, the extent to which just sexually it threw me off because I was like, I don't feel like, I don't feel sexy, I don't feel myself. And that's making me not want to like rush into. Because I was just. I got in my head.

Yeah, exactly.

And that was like a couple of months. So over years of accumulated not feeling that way and not exercising and not doing things, I can only imagine the way that people start to disconnect from their body and their sexuality.

That's exactly it. That's exactly it. We don't. That's like pointing out that connection to it that if it's an incentive for people like, oh, I know I should get to the gym or I know I need to do with my body. I think like realizing the connection that we often don't think of that truly, if you're not moving and not feeling great in your body, you're not going to feel as aroused, turned on, ready for sex. And maybe for some people that, well, yeah, that's obvious. But it really, like I can tell you all the years of research and studies that the more people have a regular exercise routine that they're in nature that they're eating good foods, they are more aroused, more turned on, they feel more sexy, they want to wear the clothes that make them feel good. And then the opposite is true, as if we're not moving. And so I think it's just, you know, if people just need that extra incentive to get moving and to, you know, it's going to help every other area of your life. And I guess we're not the first people to tell people the importance of exercise, but I Think drawing that connection to your sensuality and your sexuality is key. Looking at all the things we're putting.

In our body now, I want to switch gears a bit because there's a sub. There's a question that comes up a lot from women around sex and their value, especially in early dating and the association that I may give up my value in some way by either having sex with someone or even perhaps more subtly, because that's a kind of very obvious way of if I have sex, have I given up my power? But there's also the fear of if I show I'm very sexual to a guy, is that guy gonna somehow think I'm less valuable? Are they gonna think that, you know, because of all their associations and societal programming, are they gonna think that, oh, I don't want her because she's clearly got a lot of sexual experience, she's really sexual. I don't like that there is all these messed up associations that so. And by the way, you don't have to spend long on Reddit to realize that there are an awful lot of guys who do have those associations. So how. I don't know the best way to get into this, but it's such a complex and big area. But on a practical level, there's a lot of women out there who are trying to figure out how sexual should I be because I don't. I want to maintain my power. And it feels like I may be giving it up without even choosing to, because he sees me differently based on how I bring sexuality into the dating process.

Yeah, you know, I would. I love this conversation because I think it's so important that this has been around for so long, this notion that women are told to be like, sexy but not too sexy, be available, not too available, know what you're doing, but not too much and keep your numbers low. And there's all this way that our sexuality has been policed. And so as a result of that, that's why women are walking around feeling not sexy, not turned on, not having orgasms, because we're so concerned with all of these guys are going to think about us. And I think at the end of the day, first, I mean, my easy answer is like, well, that's not your guy, the one that's going to judge you because of all the your sexual history. But that's too simplistic because so let me just reverse that because I actually think like, yes, there's the guys on Reddit, but they're spending their time on Reddit. They're not Going on dates with them, they're on Reddit, angry.

But that's true.

I'm just saying that there's all these misconceptions about it. So I think that the women who truly understand their sexuality, what they need to be turned on, they're not having, perform. Okay, let me reverse engine there. So a lot of my early sex was performative. I was having sex that I thought looked good, was pleasing my partner. I wanted to be the best at giving the best at doing everything, moving my body in the way that I had seen in porn of the way, you know, it's just performative. And I think that what I found is that's a very common experience. And I had to unlearn. I faked orgasms, I faked pleasure. I had a good time. Don't get me wrong, I like making out, I like kissing, I love men, I love all those things. But I was thought like, I'm in service, I'm in service. And I think it's a subliminal message that a lot of women get. And I really hope to change that narrative right now. And so by asking this question, I'm going to tell women that it was really tough to unlearn and be like, this is the point where I'd usually fake it. And I've had to stop, stop and say, and through. That's why I started out saying, let's get in touch with our bodies again, whether it's through masturbation, whether it's through movement, through dance, through realizing, breath, work, through realizing that when the power is in your own knowing of your body and what feels good, and then once you start to give yourself pleasure, give yourself orgasm, you'll realize, like, I can't settle for less. I know what it feels like to be empowered, to be embodied. And other kinds of sex just doesn't do it for me. I don't owe anyone anything. I'm not going to act the way I don't need to act. And I'm going to relearn what it means, or I had to unlearn and then relearn. And so I think once you come from that place of experience and knowledge and confidence, I honestly think that you really will not be thinking about. You won't be making decisions on who you're going to sleep with and who you're not and what you're going to do based on these external beliefs that other people are going to judge you because you have a knowing and you're in touch with your intuition. You know, like this Seems like a good guy to be with. And you know what? I had one night. I had text him last night, and it felt good to me. And if he doesn't call me, I really don't care if I had texted him three times and he blows me off. I enjoyed that. Like, I enjoyed that time because I got what I wanted, what I needed. I did my best. I thought it was good. It wasn't. I'm not going to spend too much time tripping on the fact that I'll never know what happened. Maybe he didn't like the sex. Maybe he got back together sex. Like, there's a million reasons why. And I know you say this all the time, but we can't worry what other people think. Like, we can't spend all of our time. We'll never really know. But it's almost like I'm trying to think of the equivalent of it. Like, you just can't have regrets. Like, I can't. Like, you went to a restaurant, you had a good meal. Like, I don't know, you left, you ordered the food you wanted. Maybe things weren't ideal, but, like, at least I had a good meal or you had a good conversation with someone. I'd love people like a date that doesn't go well. Or maybe as someone that doesn't work out, you think like, what did I learn from this person? What did I learn from this experience? What did I learn from this sexual experience? Even if it doesn't go anywhere? So I guess my point is being intentional about your sex. And does that answer it? That's so many things there. I know it's a really petty question.

No, no, no. You just said something that really, I want to thank you because you just. You just connected something for me.

Okay.

People have to lose this association that by having sex with someone, they've given up their power. Because if you think that that was your power and now you've given it up, you behave now as someone who's given up their power.

Exactly.

So. But you just added a dimension to it that I think is really, really interesting. What I hadn't connected in the way that you just did is that if you go into sex, not from this place of being performative, and it's just my job to make sure they have as good a time as possible. And when you're coming from that place, if you bring the people pleaser, and I've seen this a lot with women that I've coached, they bring the people pleaser mindset into the bedroom. I remember Coaching someone. And there was a comment that she said where she was like, I did this for him, I did that for him. I blew him all the time, like whenever, like. And I just remember hearing that and thinking that came from a place of people, just from the way you said it. Cause you could be someone who gives a lot of blow jobs in a relationship and it's just coming from a place of generosity, like a, you know, that's just people taking care of each other because they like doing it and they like making each other happy. But when we're doing it from a place of scarcity because we're worried we won't get love if we, if we don't do it, that people pleaser nature shows up in really bad ways in the bedroom. And that happens for people. It can happen for people after a first date. They go home with someone they barely know and they're giving the performance of their life because they think, I really, really, really want this person to think I'm great. And the more I can do exactly what they want me to do, the more I'm gonna be valuable to them and the more they're gonna like me and they're not gonna wanna, they're gonna wanna see me again. Well, if you do that, it's all well and good as long as that agenda you have plays out. In other words, as long as they ask you out again and again and again and again, and that leads to a relationship and that leads to, you know, a long term thing, then you kind of look back and you go, oh my God, thank God. All of those things I did that I only did to make that person like me worked out. They, it worked out because I now have them. But what happens in reverse is if it doesn't work out, the person is like, I would never have done all of that if I didn't think it was going to work out. And that's what makes people feel so used and so resentful and so hurt. And so what you just said about being intentional and essentially owning the experience for yourself is a way of creating a scenario that is win, win for you. Because you go home with someone, you in real time are saying, what would make this an enjoyable experience for me? And if you're coming from that place, if something is happening that makes it not enjoyable for you, you can speak up about that and you can acknowledge it and say to someone, I'd prefer if we did this or I don't want to do that. And you're keeping it always within the Bounds of an experience that I'm really happy with. And if it's an experience you're really happy with, if nothing comes of that experience, you can look at that and go, I enjoyed it for its own sake. But if you were only coming from a people pleasing mindset because you were coming from scarcity and lack, and I have to impress this person and oh my God, am I, am I, do they like me? You are liable to do all these things that make you feel icky a week later because you didn't get what you were trying to get from the situation.

Yeah, it's so true. It's so. It just makes me sad too. I think about it like for showing up in this way that you think it has to be so. Yeah. In service when going back to embodiment and intentionality and like what? Like if you felt good and you actually had a good time, there's no regrets here. Right. But I think what we get to is that a lot of women don't even actually know what that is because of this life of feeling like you have to give, give, give during sex. And I have to say that I realized this and also in the course of writing my book, I was like, I never thought it was okay to stop sex or to direct sex. Like, I thought if I started it, I'm a people pleaser too, and I work on it. I don't know if you ever, if you ever get over it, but you work on it. And I would think, like, if I'm starting, I gotta keep going along with what they want. I didn't know that I could kind of redirect and say, you know what, the sex is moving a little bit fast. This is an experience I think a lot of women have where. How do we go from kissing to now my clothes are off. I've learned I can say, you know what, let's slow down. Like, let's. I love the kissing. Like, I love making out. Can we just go a little bit slower? I need a little bit more time. And I want to remind women too that like, we are slow cookers and men tend to be more like frying pans. Like, we need a little bit time to warm up and just acknowledge is power when it comes to sexuality and understanding that. So this is like a whole process. I love that we're talking about this way because it is all the pillars to work into this. Even just every sexual experience. Like, am I present? Do I know myself enough to know what I want? But that's how we start to get out of the mindset of, am I going to be judged for what I did sexually to, like, you can judge me all you want, but I had a really good time. Like, this was for me too. Right. It is a reverse. It is sort of a, you know, and it's a mindset switch. It's a lot to learn here, but it's. It's totally possible, and it makes sex so much more enjoyable and, you know, equal, I guess.

Yeah. It's really powerful. Everything you just said is really. Is so important. I feel like it gets to the heart of why it goes so badly wrong in early dating for people and why they end up carrying so much hurt and so much, you know, sort of. You know, in some cases, trauma is the right word. In some cases, it might be a strong word. But people carry so much baggage over into their dating lives because they feel so taken advantage of and that. I think we almost have to realize that we. We can decide whether we're in a. Not being taken advantage of doesn't have to mean not having sex, Right?

Exactly.

It can mean owning the sex you have and making it an experience that you actually like in the same way that you kind of. A date should be like that. A date. There's. A date is a shared experience. Right. It's not like we go on a date going. I'm just focused on having a good time. I don't care how much of a good time you have. It's a. It's a mutual thing. It's like, I. I want to have a really good time tonight. I'm not just focused on how great of a time you're having, but I also want you to have a great experience, too. But I'm gonna have a great experience with you that I'm comfortable having tonight. It's gonna be the kind of date that I feel is appropriate to the fact that we've just met, and I'm gonna focus on having a good time. And a lot of people have bad dates because they don't focus on having a good time themselves.

They're so in their heads or they're worried about it. Yeah.

They're like, what conversation would I like to have? Or what. What do I think would be fun to talk about? Or what questions am I really curious about in life that I'm going to invite you to talk about with me? They're just always thinking, is this what they want to talk about? Is this a date that they do? They want to go to this place. It's not like, oh, there's this awesome place down the street that I love. We should go there. I think you'd enjoy it, too. It's. Do you want to go there? Do you think this would be fun? And that if you just think sex is life, it's just a continuation.

It's literally the same exact thing. It's the same stuff that you teach, evolve, dating, to be present and not to be worrying. Like, I hope he likes me. I hope he likes me. Like, do you like him? Right? Do you present the same thing goes to sex. Do you like the sex? Do you like the situation? We're all in it together. And the other thing I want to say is, like, men. Like, this is the thing I realized, too, by doing this work, because, you know, my listeners, my audience is always half men, half women. Like, it's always been split. I think that's always so interesting. You're like, I think it's a lot of women. No, I used to think, like I said, guys know. They don't know either. And can I just tell you how relieved a man is when he is with a woman who's like, the babe. This is what feels good. This is what I like. Do you want to see this? Parts of my body that I've learned, they're like, thank God I don't have to be guessing anymore. Like, that is. I think that is also the hottest, sexiest thing in the world when you're the woman who, like, knows what she wants and I don't. And I think that there's some fear that if we don't acquiesce and we don't give in and that somehow guys will feel like, oh, I can't. Going back to your earlier question, if I show a guy what I like, they're gonna think I'm slightly. They're think I'm easy because I know this stuff. But all I'm saying is, like, that might be the paradigm, but let's switch that we have the power to show up as fully empowered, intelligent women who know what we want. And I'm telling you, the more that we all do that together, the more men are going to be like, thank you. I love this. This makes sex so much better for all of us because guys want you to have a good time. You're hoping it's good. You're not thinking, I'm only getting mine. I don't think that guys set out to just have it this way. It's not men's fault that women are more performative in many ways. It's all the way society is set up, there's a lot of different reasons for it, but I think we can all agree, I hope that, like, we all want to be great lovers to each other.

I think for a lot of guys, especially healthy guys, it's thinking that she's not having a good time or she's not turned on is like the ultimate turn off. That is the thing that can make you get in your head is that I don't know if she's like, I'm not getting anything back. I'm not getting any feedback. I don't know. And that's why performative sex is so dangerous, because you. You're giving. Literally, you're not just not giving any cues, you're giving the wrong cues.

Right.

You're giving false feedback. And so he's getting reinforced for things that aren't even working. So. And when we get reinforced, we go, okay, I should do that again.

Do more.

Do more of that. And so you're literally setting up. You're, like, making the way, paving the way for your own bad sex in the future by telling him, go that way.

Exactly.

There's nothing good that way. But you're like, no, no, no, keep going. It's great. And he's just gonna keep doing that thing.

Right.

You have such a lovely way about you in the way that you communicate things. And I really get the impression with you that when you're interacting with men especially intimately, there would be a care to it, there would be a warmth to it, there would be a kind of a kindness to it and a way of dealing with things. I think, you know, between the ultimate kind of evolved guy and the depths of Reddit, there are a lot of guys in the middle who have grown up with very complex associations around women and sex because of what they've been taught, taught because of society, a whole bunch of complicated reasons that they then, you know, the more there's a more evolved part of them that doesn't struggle and is like, oh, no, that makes sense. I'm with someone who has a past. I'm with someone like me. That there's an evolved side and then there's the monkey brain.

Yes, exactly.

That trips them up and can make them act out, can make them behave badly, act. And I'm not talking about anything abusive. I'm just talking about being jealous, being like, you know, triggered by something. You suddenly say, I like this. And they're like, it's suddenly in their head going, how do you feel? Do you do that all the Time. Is that something you did with your ex? Is your ex, you know, are they more manly than me? Did you like that? You know, like, now I'm picturing you with your ex. I really want to because I feel like so often we do have these conversations in an overly simplistic way. And you point, pointed that out yourself. It's too simplistic to just say, you know, well, if he can't handle that, then screw him or whatever, because we're people and women get jealous about those things too. So how do you approach these conversations? When you're talking about the things you'd like, when you're talking about the things that turn you on, when you are talking about something that you've learned from previous partners, but you know that it can make the sex better with this person you're with today. You know, it would make you happier and more turned on. But you also are trying to figure out how to navigate that with someone who is a human, with an ego and a baser side that he doesn't want to have sabotage him, but it does. How do you bring these things up?

Oh, it's such a good question too. It's like, it's so tricky. And I cannot tell you how common this is. Like, we're making it sound easy here. Like, just roll up and. And say, hey, babe, this is what I want. It is not easy. There are couples who have been together for 10 years, 20 years, who have children, who have hopeful lives, and they've been naked in all situations, and they have never talked about their sex life. So I'm telling you, it is like this one subject that we just don't go there. So my three T's is such a great. Like, I think people can remember this. It is timing. The first thing is timing. And a quick way to remember this is make sure you are not halt. And that is hungry, angry, lonely, or tired. If you're feeling any of those things, do not have the conversation. But it's date night. You're hanging out. It's a Saturday morning, Sunday morning. Find the right time. It's not like when you're already fighting about something. And also, you never initiate sex. Like, no, that's not it. The next one is tone. The tone about sex has got to be supportive, curious, open, you know, like lighter, a little bit lighter. It is not like heavy, deep, we need to talk. It just can't be. And then the turf is outside the bedroom. Even though we think that we should have these conversations, we're in the bedroom already. In the bedroom, we want to leave that for different. For sleeping and for sex, but not for these conversations about sex. So a great way to do this, the turf is so many great sex conversations happen when couples are going on a walk or they're on a road trip. They're just driving in the car because this way it's still intimate, but you don't have to make eye contact because it might be awkward. And so this is how the conversation goes, right? So you've got the timing, tone and turf. You're on a road trip with your partner, even if you're just driving 20 minutes to dinner. I realized, baby, that we've never really talked about our sex life. And I would love to find time to figure out what. I want to be such a great lover to you and I want to know what turned you on and I want to be able to share what feels good to me. Never felt safe. Would you be down with that? Would you be down with finding ways to be comfortably talking about sex? Like, that's just really how you start. See what they say. And I want to warn everybody, but you might get pushback. Like, what do you mean? What kind of shows you listening to? That sounds crazy. What, Our sex is fine. You ain't like our sex life. This is why conversations about sex are not a one time thing. It's like great. Hope you'd be open to it and then you could continue until you know. I have a lot of great tips in the book that are like literally on the communication chapter is all. All of these various. I have scripts, I have tips. I have like the sexual state of the Union. I've got the yes, no, maybe list which actually is a free. That's for a little bit. People who've been together for a little bit. But it's not even that. Actually. The yes, no, maybe list, which maybe we've talked about this before. It's probably the most common downloadable guide I have on my website, sex with emily.com and it has 80 sex acts on it and it has everything from kissing to hugging to dirty talk. Is it a yes for you? Is it a no or is it a maybe? And it just gives people a menu to talk about what they're into.

Great. Yeah, that's great.

Yeah.

The is you have me so curious now about these scripts. Is there a script that you think when communicating about sex or what you like or what turns you on? Is there one that you feel like is one or two that stand out that you can give to people too?

I do I'll give you the one. I'll give you the one that's the best for feedback. And this is the compliment sandwich. Now the compliment sandwich, this again could also be used in the workplace. But I love the compliment sandwich for sex in particular because you start off the first piece of bread is the top is just something that you really like about your sex life. Because I'm going to give feedback that let's say that my partner. I'm really bummed that they never initiate sex. I am always initiating and I feel like it's just been really frustrating and I don't like the way that they're not doing it. That's unless there's something else that comes up. Well, I think that's a good way to start. So I would start with something that I love. I Babe, I want to say that the sex you've been having lately has been. Get specific in your compliments. We give a compliment. I am loving like I loved so much that you, the way we were making out last night for a long time and the way you like slowly went down on me. I love how we've been like. I feel like our sex has been off the charts lately because of these. I felt comfortable, it's been hot, it's been sexy. I've been thinking about it at work. It's just been like next level. Like I didn't think our sex could get better and it is. And I really feel like a lot of the time I'm initiating it and I'm bringing it and I don't know if you're really into it. It would be feels so good to know that you want as much as I do. So would you be willing to initiate and to. To. To grab me sometimes and let me know that you want it so I know you're as hot for me me. And then the last piece is will you wrap it up and why it's good for both of you. So whatever your request is, it's because I think if we both initiate with give and take, we're both going to feel the most desired, loved, hot and turned on and have the healthiest, most pleasurable sex life possible.

That's great. That's such a great way of having the conversation.

Yeah.

Is it brings up for me that I know that I got asked earlier by one of our members about differing sex drives. What's your most common answer to the problem of it's hurting my self esteem over time that I have a higher sex drive than my partner?

Well, I can tell you this, that is probably one of the most common question I get asked. I hope everyone just feels good about that. Like there is always a high desire partner of a relationship and a low desire partner. That's how most relationships shake out. Someone wants more sex than the other person. So you're all in the right place. And it might switch, you might, you know, it might switch over time, but there's always going to be, for whatever reason, the two high desires and the two light desires don't get together. I mean, maybe it's biology, right? Evolutionarily speaking. So just recognizing that, that that's a thing. And we're going to have to negotiate like we do other things. We're going to have to figure out a way to work around it. And you know, the low desire partner has the power because they're the gatekeepers to sex. They're deciding the sex is gonna happen. So really the best way of saying is recognizing and say, babe, I know that you want sex a lot more than I do. That's just my drive. I don't want it as much. But we both agree that having sex is important. So let's figure out when is the best time to have sex. Like, that's why I think scheduling sex is really one of my, another one of my top tips. Because couples who have the mismatched desires find that they're not having as much sex. That's working for the partners because either the one who has the high desire is tired of getting rejected and they think it's their ego that their ego gets hurt. And the lower desire partner is like, oh my God, I'm letting him down. And you know, so I think if you decide that we want to have sex on Saturday nights and it's date night and it's a non negotiable, you don't. Date night is you always go on date night. Like no matter what, you leave your phones at home in the car, you don't talk about work, you don't talk about the kids. Unless that's, you know, you make and you do something different. You get out of the house, you do something that's going to build connection and connectivity and you're gonna have conversations that make you feel good. And that is the night that you know that sex is going to happen. But when you know sex is going to happen, you can reverse engineer it. And using a lot of the pillars of sex IQ they talk about in my book, you can think about, well, what's going to get me most? Because also for a lot of Women, we're not always turned on unless there's few things. Like and I help people realize this is part of the self knowledge pillar. Like I know if the house is a mess, if I haven't showered, if I haven't worked out that day, I'm less likely to want to have sex. If I have unresolved issues with my partner from the last time we had sex or just from the week because something happened, I'm not going to be in the mood for sex. Like there's all these things in the environment that's going to keep us from having sex. But if I spent a day becoming more embodied, I went for a hike, maybe I masturbated, I took a bath, I shaved my legs, I did these things, I'm wearing something that makes me feel sexy, I'm setting myself up for sex, I'm keeping my own pilot light lit so I am going to be ready and turned on for sex. We're responsible for our own orgasm, so this is where it comes in our own pleasure. I can let my partner know that I need all these things but at the end of the day I have to look at myself and say, okay, sex is important. If I'm the low desire partner, I don't want as much as my partner, but I need to figure out because my life, my sex life is important, my relationship is so important to me. I'm not going to wait for the desire to hit me over the head. This whole notion that we're just going to have this spontaneous desire like we did at the beginning of a relationship, it just, it's not true, it's harmful. Men, typically, if we're talking about the genders here, you have more of a spontaneous desire. Like you might say, see Audrey? And you are turned on and it's aware it's a parent like you are ready to go. And a lot of times when we have to respond to something, I respond to your touch, to your compliments, to your kisses, to your doing the dishes. I mean we have to figure out what is our turn ons. And so it's a complex cycle that couples have to figure out. And it's a dance and it's a negotiation. But if I know that all these things need to be in place and you know what turns me out, I know what turns out turned you on. There's gonna be more sex that happens, more satisfying sex, more understanding.

I, I so much important stuff here. I'm making notes because it's a lot, so much I want to say I, you Know, the phrase I want to pick up on and I want everyone to write down because I think is so important is keeping your own pilot light lit. I think that's a great phrase in sex. And I think of, you know, we all have non negotiables in life that are important for us to just feel good in general. There almost should be as a, almost as part of being a good partner, we should have non negotiables that keep our pilot light lit. So you mentioned working out, showering. There was one more that working out, showering.

Showering wearing something that makes me feel sexy, like getting out of my.

Shaving. Shaving your legs.

Shaving my legs?

Yeah, like these. You could see those as the non negotiables that you have to do for yourself in order to keep your own pilot light lit and take responsibility for that. And I think the other side of that is it's like there's. There's the sex that is about both of us and there's the sex that's about the other person. And I'm not just talking about penetrative sex and just anything, any sexual act. And I think that sometimes we think everything has to be. Everything has to be the latter. Everything has to be about the two of us. And that may be true in early dating, but in the context of a committed relationship, there's always things like out. If you remove the word sex from it. We all have things that are more important to us than our partner and vice versa. And part of a relationship is that we go, well, where do you. Oh, you, you like your head stroked? Okay, that's more important. I don't care about having my head stroked, but I'll stroke yours because you like it. You know, like that's a, that's a. Just a part of a relationship. Whereas we kind of, I think some, as soon as the word sex enters it, we think, but I have to enjoy it. Well, yeah, sometimes. Absolutely. Other times it might be that it's just about them and you say, you know, I'm just going to please you. And I think the hard part about that is that we. The hard part, as I see it, once we decide to have that generosity of spirit that I just, if it's important to you, I want you to feel good, is trying to navigate the waters of them feeling shame that you don't want to or them feeling like, but you're not even into it or this is just charity. And that doesn't make me feel good. I think one of the hacks in a Relationship for sex is can you, as the partner who has that generosity of spirit that just sometimes makes them feel good and doesn't need to do it for you, can you make them feel like that's just a thing that they shouldn't be ashamed of, they should just receive the gift because you like doing it for them. Like, not because you're feeling turned on, but because it's fun to do something that they, that makes them happy. If you can achieve that, I feel like you can overcome a lot of mismatched sex drive.

Absolutely. I think that is such a good, good point. I, I talk a lot about that, about, you know, a lot of us are not comfortable receiving.

Yeah, exactly.

That's exactly right. And so I, I realized too, I have that. I think it's in the oral sex chapter because you'd be amazed like how many, like here's the thing. So for many, many women, oral sex is a primary source of their arousal, their turn ons, their orgasms. Like I know we've probably covered this, but like penetration, as delightful as it can be, is not where the magic happens for many women. Like that's just, that's not where we're going to have our orgasms. Our most pleasure, however, so knowing that, that it's oral sex is just an example. When I think about receiving, a lot of women are like, well, I don't really deserve it or does he really want to be there? Or I have shame around my body. And so I think that just learning to like receive what, even if it's just a massage. Another way to say this is like, I love giving and receiving. Like with my partner we'll have times where we have a massage table. And I love that like we'll just put it out. It's like this is the time that he's, he's giving to me and I'm giving him and in the same night it doesn't happen. Like that's okay like in a relationship to know that like it's all about your pleasure tonight I knew I'll get mine and you don't. Also, like, this is just kind of expanding your definition of sex and intimacy. Who says that we both have to have orgasms? It has to be this explosive thing every single time. Well, that's exhausting. Like, no wonder why sex has become so problematic for so many people that it's always supposed to be a symphony, a 10 course meal. Like what if sometimes it's just making out? It's just one person's getting off and the other person isn't, like, it's. That's okay. It's not the end of the world. Like, sometimes you want dessert, sometimes you don't. You know, Sometimes you want this. You know, like, it's just. It's expanding what is possible for intimacy. Because a lot of times we are craving sex, but really we just want intimacy and connection, and we get to decide what that looks like. So learning to know that your partner just wants to give to you and then be able to receive, that is a process.

And. Yeah. And as you said earlier, taking it all a bit more lightly, you know, if you're in a random moment, if your partner's turned on and you're not, and you're like, well, I could just do this quick thing for you, or I could, like, whatever. It doesn't have to be. Be a big deal. I think when people get that, develop that lightness about them, you have to. Everything becomes so much easier.

Exactly.

The moment it gets this light shone on it about, like, it's this big thing, we start to naturally tense up and seize up, and it's. The whole thing takes on too much pressure. I actually think that's one of the great ironies of talking about sex is talking about sex is vitally important. And yet it can. It's like, how do we talk about sex without, like, putting this great spotlight on it in a way that makes us even more aware?

Exactly.

You know, the moment you talk about, I feel like you want it. You know, I feel like I want it more than you do. It's like shining a spotlight on it and you've given. It's almost like you feel like you've given up some power. And now. Now the next time you do it. I've been honest with you, but now the next time we do it, are you just doing it because I asked you to? Like, now it's like, it's almost like by. By shining a light on it, you've. Now it's changed form on its own in a way that maybe is not desirable. So I think having the conversations the right way is really.

Yeah, it is. Because it's so complicated. Right. It's like anytime you're like, well, I don't want it to tell. Like, we think our partner's a mind reader, right? Or we want them to be mind reader. Like, why doesn't he know I need this? And then we think if we ask for it and they do it, like, I need you to send me flowers. Well, like, then you send flowers the next day, you're like, oh, it's because I asked you, but that's our decision to get annoyed. How about your partner heard what you said, and they're like, okay, I'm gonna do something for you. Like, that can feel really great. So what if you had asked for it? That's just switching your mindset around it. Like, that's showing that a partner is listening to you. They're attentive, they're being intentional. So I think that sex is the area that we need to be talking about it. And how wonderful that your partner is listening and says, okay, tonight's gonna be about you, and I'm okay with it now.

Yes. Yes. Well, this has been incredible. And I want to say. I want to say to you, Emily, that everything I honestly, of all the people I speak to, I honestly think that you're doing one of the most profound things in the work that you do. I think it's life changing and life saving because it goes to the heart of the human experience. We. So much of life is tied into our sexual beings, our sexual being, our sexual nature. It controls so much of life. So how much of. How much of violence is out there is just related to. A lot of it is repressed, repressed sexuality. People not being taught right, people not developing the right associations, frustrated people who have to take it out. And so, like, there's so much of life that is connected to people not having access to someone like you at a time in their life where it would have helped them and the rest of us if they had had that. And what you're encouraging, and not just encouraging, but teaching impractically, is a model for us to have these conversations, for us to feel, not feel shame, for us to feel open. This conversation is an absolute example of that. If you look at the comfort with which we, as a group of people, men and women, have all been able to discuss things that never get discussed. And we're talking about it like we're talking about what we're doing this weekend. That's your gift, and I want to celebrate that gift, and I want everyone to join me in celebrating that gift, because that's not something that just anyone can do. That's your nature, your kindness, your compassion, your complete lack of division between men and women. You don't divide, you unite. And you don't make men feel shameful either. You just bring people together, and it's beautiful and it's necessary. And I'm so happy you have a new book, because I think more of the world, as many people in the world can get your work the better.

Thank you. Oh, Matthew, thank you so much for having me. I am so, so grateful. And you're just so. You're so magical to watch, the way you're helping, the way you reframe and the way you lift everybody up. I'm honored to be part of your community anytime. Thank you for having me. This has been wonderful.

All right, everybody. I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. Don't forget to get a copy of Dr. Emily Morse's book, Smart Sex on Amazon or wherever you get your books. And if you want to listen to the second hour of this conversation, which got even better, if you can believe that, we talked about really sensitive subjects like how to deal with dating and having herpes and when to tell someone. We talked about how to get rid of the anxious thoughts as a woman when someone is going down on you and you're too worried about their experience to have an orgasm. We talked about fears of intimacy when you haven't been with anyone for a long time. We had someone who had had an accident, and since then, sex had been really hard for her. We talked about growing up with a repressed sexuality because of religion and because of your family and how to overcome that. I mean, there is no element of this that we didn't touch in some way. And the people that were there live were commenting that it was one of the most powerful sessions that we had done inside the Love Life Club. So if you want to listen to that whole thing, go over to joinlovelife.com for a free trial membership. Enjoy the rest of the conversation that I had with Dr. Emily alongside all of the other masterclasses and courses and community elements that we have inside the Love Life Club. I'll see you next time. Thanks, everyone.

Sa.