Should He Come Over On The First Date(s)?

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If you consistently find that they're not interested in any other activity than hooking up at the end of the night, then you start to get your answer about the lack of progression and ideally we don't get ourselves into that situation in the first place.

Matthew we had a wonderful follow up email from Regina who emailed in her question last week and she says Dear Matthew, oh my God. Omg. Thank you.

Now just just to just to set some context for this, I was a bit worried that Regina, Regina sent in an answer to a question we asked, didn't she? We, we asked like what's a more vulnerable. What's a, what's a vulnerable human moment you've had with someone? Because we said being vulnerable and being human on a date is a Good thing. So send us an example of you being vulnerable and human. And Regina, famously, on the podcast she sent in an email, said, well, I went. I was with someone and I said, I've been dumped three times. And I sort of went on a little bit of a rant about that and said, I'm not entirely sure that's what I meant by vulnerability. And then I was worried, wasn't I, that I was a bit harsh. So not harsh in that I was wrong, just harsh in that I just didn't want Regina to not email in again.

Yeah, well, we got an email very quickly and she said, thank you for reading my email. Discussing about what I did made me realize that I need to be careful on the language that I use in the future. The failed relationships that I've experienced have affected me. It just stuck in my head that they had left me. You made me realize to see it in a different light. Don't worry, Matthew. You were not too harsh on me. Thank you for the practical advice you gave me about love languages. You guys are brilliant. More power. I can't wait to attend a virtual retreat this coming September like everyone else here.

I'm really glad to hear that, Regina. You're a great sport. Thank you for emailing in in the first place. That was brave. That was a human moment. This is a human moment, you emailing in and talking to us about this. So I think that's great. I think last, you know, one of the points we made, the other the. On one of the last podcasts was this idea that over self deprecation isn't the same as vulnerability. Excessive self deprecation. As Jameson and I have put it in the past, self defecation is not the same as true vulnerability. And I think sometimes people are, you know, when you say to someone, you look beautiful and they're like, oh, no, I look terrible. That's not vulnerability. That's just all you're doing is inviting a perspective on yourself based on your own insecurities. Instead of just appreciating that perspective that someone has on you. You're saying, no, no, no, you don't get to view me through your lens. You have to view me through my lens. And then we're just asking someone else to view us through the prism of our own insecurities.

Yeah, vulnerability ain't turning your sword on yourself, giving you a wound and going, ah, look how vulnerable I've been. That's just poor use of a weapon. So, next email. So we got an email in that simply reads too early to go to his place. That's the subject line. Now, the person's name was in the email name, but they didn't sign off with it. So I'm just going to respect. As if they wanted to be anonymous. So they said. When it comes to the early stages of dating, that is first month or two, what would you say is the right balance between having exterior dates versus dates where you go to one another's place? Part of me wonders whether getting to the in home dates too quickly or doing those too frequently in the beginning gets you to the coupley stage prematurely, which may scare the guy off. Hope to hear your thoughts on this. Sincerely, one of your original followers. I don't know how OG that means, but you could be back back to 2009, in which case, big respect.

I mean, Steve, I could have been 17 right when she joined.

You'd never even seen a woman's home at that. Well, maybe, maybe he had, but not a lot.

I think there's not just a danger of you getting to the coupley stage too quickly and scaring him off. There's obviously the danger of getting to the casual categorization where it's just kind of all very easy.

Yeah, well, those are two different things, right? Those are two different kinds of risk.

Right? Yeah. Coupley is like scaring him off by getting to the coupley stage too quickly. Might be inviting him to dinner with your parents.

Right.

But inviting him over or going over to his house doesn't necessarily get you to cut to the coupley stage. That's going to scare him off.

Right.

It just might get you to the, you know, friends with benefits stage or, you know, just hanging out at each other's homes and it all being very, very easy and frictionless.

Amazon prime or Friction. Amazon prime and Recline as I'm calling it now. Just, just to not be basic and say Netflix and Chill. Let's go Amazon prime and recline.

That's not catching on. And how much is Bezos paying you?

Yeah, I'm not. No comment.

There is some under the table money coming from. From Bezos there.

Oh yeah, Jeff's got a lot of his skin in his podcast.

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It's not. It's not ignored.

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You imagine that is Amazon slogan.

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You didn't even know you needed. I. Well, let me, let me answer this question finally. I would say the progression of things. We, we want A progression that's organic. And organic means two things. In a sense. It means not racing to. Okay, wait, let me back up for a moment. There's what you want to do and there's what's prudent to do. I don't like that the word prude is in prudent, but I don't mean any connotation with that. It's not intended. There's what's, what you want to do and what's prudent to do. You may want to, you know, go very quickly with someone because you like them. That doesn't always mean that it's prudent to do that. You might want to jump someone that you just met five minutes ago. It doesn't mean it's prudent to do that. It might not even mean that's safe to do that. Right. So I'm just going to extremes here to illustrate this point. And I would say this to people. People make this gendered in a way that I think is, is unhelpful and actually a distraction because I would say this to both men and women that I would say to a guy, if you really like someone you maybe don't want to have, don't want to be in a rush with, you know, the things that you might normally do if you were being more casual. Because allowing things to grow more organically in some ways allows. Allow things to unfold in a bit more of a meaningful way and it allows you to kind of attach a little more meaning to each stage of it. That's not to say that you can't sleep with someone quickly and then sort of retro actively and you know, from that point on start to create meaning around those events. And there are plenty of people that end up together that moved incredibly fast in the beginning. So I'm not saying that can't happen, but sometimes can be a bit of a distraction from the getting to know each other part, when, when a lot of heavy intimacy and fast forwarding stages becomes a kind of surrogate for real connection and actually getting to know each other.

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And the time that you spend, you know, and that's not to say you could do that going to each other's houses. Right? It's not. You don't have to have some. I'm not about rules. You don't have to have some rule that says I can't go to someone's house or they can't come to mine. It's just that sometimes it's misleading when you get into a relation or into a dynamic with someone in the first month or two where you're just always like, what it becomes. It's just a very sexual relationship with nothing else going on. At the same time, you know, you. You know each other's bodies a lot better at the end of a month, but you don't know each other's minds a lot better.

Yeah. And there's an illusion of progress.

Yes, exactly. There's an. There's an intimacy that's happened that can certainly make you invested, and it can absolutely mean there are now feelings involved and you can get hurt. But that doesn't. You know, you could still ask yourself, how well do we know each other? How much time have we taken to actually have conversation? You know, relationships, good relationships, relationships with solid foundations arise out of an abundance of conversation. You know, you're in conversation with another person in a way that helps you extract their values, demonstrate yours, gauge your compatibility to what extent you really do think the same way. To what extent you have a similar outlook on life, to what extent your goals, your futures are aligned in what you want, at least where you are now. Those things arise out of conversation and intimacy can blind you to the fact that you haven't actually been having any conversation. Right?

You mean physical, Physical sex or intimacy?

Physical intimacy, yes. Sexual intimacy, yes. They can blind you to the fact that you haven't had any real intellectual or emotional intimacy that arises out of conversation as opposed to emotional. Emotional intimacy that arises out of a physical connection.

Yeah.

And then of course, there is the argument of how you know is when you go and start spending time at each other's houses, are you giving it to someone too? There's that whole argument, right? The whole, is it too easy for someone? Am I not in a relationship with someone, but I'm giving them everything as if I'm in a relationship with them? And is that going to make them not want to progress to the next level with me, that I'm going to their house, sleeping with them, they're coming to mine, and so on? I don't. We all know that life is a bit more nuanced than that. You know, it's not. It's not about making. For me at least everyone has to make their own mind up, but for me, it's not about making some rule, like, I'm not going to go to your house until blah, blah, blah. It's more. I think it's more looking at the situation with an honest eye and saying, has this become about one dynamic that is continuing whilst no other part of the dynamic is actually progressing?

Yeah.

Like, am I just getting the phone call at the end of the night or the text, you know, to come over on a Saturday night, but we're actually never doing anything else, like, we're not going to the movies. Not that that's been a grand old activity we've been able to do in the last year. But, you know, we're not going out for a walk, you know, you know, doing something that is like going for coffee, sitting outside and having a chat at a restaurant or whatever. It's. If we're not. If we're never doing any of those things, why is that? Is it because they don't feel, you know, maybe. Maybe we've both gotten into this kind of dynamic where it feels sort of unnatural to do those things and, and I need to take responsibility for changing up that dynamic instead of just being like, I'm not coming to your house anymore, suggesting, hey, do you want to go for breakfast tomorrow? I know this great place. Or do you want to go for a walk in. Do you want to go on a hike together or do you want to go for a walk in the park tomorrow? You know, and if, if you consistently find that they're not interested in any other activity than hooking up at the end of the night, then you start to get your answer about the lack of progression. And ideally, we don't get ourselves into that situation in the first place. And by that I don't mean that you never, you know, you always hold off on any physical intimacy until you see everything else, because that's up to everyone's personal rules and standards. But what I mean is, ideally you wouldn't get into a situation where you realize that after four weeks you've only been going to each other's houses to sleep together and nothing else has happened because you want to, like, you want to be moving both in tandem. If you're going to do it that.

Way and you don't. If you only from the beginning, just someone comes over at 10pm and you sleep together. It's not that. I've definitely heard of couples who slept together really early and stayed together, and they said, oh, we slept together in the first few nights. So it's not like you say, it's not about hard and fast rules, but it's just that if that's the only thing that happens at the beginning, then you kind of have no gauge on their intentions. And if they have any interest in moving things in another direction, if you suddenly, after four weeks, suggested, hey, why don't we go do this with my friends on this weekend? And they're like, I don't want to do that, then you realize, oh, it was just about coming over and sleeping together, and they actually don't want a part of my life at all.

It shouldn't come as a shock that they don't want to do any of those things with you after you've already gotten really physically and emotionally close to them.

Right.

Do you know that means you've. You've skipped a whole portion of organic relationship building?

Yeah.

And by the way, if you ask someone, this is super important, if you are someone who feels easily used, or if you feel like it would make you feel resentful or it would make you feel hurt to go down a physical road with someone and then none of that is forthcoming. None of the, you know, spending time together, getting to know each other, having real conversation, progressing the relationship is forthcoming, then don't do that at that stage. See if you have the other things first. See if they are even interested in spending any time with you on that level. See gauge if they are interested in asking you real questions and spending time getting to know you. Because those tend to be signs that someone is open to an actual relationship. You know, one of the surest signs that someone is looking for something meaningful is when they're actually trying to have conversation with you and get to know you. Because they're not in the stage of trying to mindlessly hook up. They're actually in the stage of not wanting to waste their time with the wrong person. So they will try to get to know you more and they will be open to spending some time together because sleeping with you although important to them. Right. How many, how many men is it not important to like want that sexual connection? And women too. But we know men can rush. You want to have a tendency to want to rush into that. That, that may still be high on his list, but so will the other stuff. Or it may even be that the other stuff is higher on his list. That no longer is it like, I just want to jump into bed with you, but it's like, well, I actually am looking for someone serious. So my primary motive is actually trying to get to know you to see if we're compatible.

So do you think then you need to think about your balance of hey, we're doing the in home dates too much. I guess the answer is you need to, you need to look at a. What someone's intent is. And one of the ways you can look at that is when you actually suggest doing things other than that and taking some time to actually do some wholesome things where you have quality time, different experiences, times outside of just sex. Physical.

Sure. And look, let's make something clear. This last year has in a sense, people who don't want a date to equate to sex will have had to redefine what the in home date actually means. Because if you take London in the height of winter when everything was on lockdown, and about the only activity you could actually do outside of your home was take a walk in a park on a freezing cold day, wasn't the sexiest date in the world. Right, Right. So it's natural to be like what the date is going to be in home, because that's all we have. But then you have to redefine what that means. Of course, by the way, that's not a good idea necessarily, especially for a woman with someone that they barely know, Right. Would that we should state that it's not, it's not the same for a man having an in home date with a woman as it is for a woman having an in home date with a man that she doesn't already know is safe and can be trusted. So bear with me.

So.

But I think that we have to say an in home date doesn't have to equate to physical intimacy. But you know, sometimes, sometimes that needs to be made clear to someone.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, like this. And it doesn't have to be as, as blatant as well if you come over this does it doesn't mean sex. Right. It can just be. Look, I normally, you know, if, for example, it was as a result of the fact that there is a complete lack of options where you are right now and a walk is unfeasible, which I would always say that you should be starting with dates outside the home. But like, if you really were going to do that with someone that you've spoken to a lot and you feel you've made that assessment and you feel you want to do that, then you can still say to someone, like, let's, you know, we can hang out and have some dinner. But I just want to let you know, like, under normal circumstances this, this wouldn't be something I would do this quickly. And I'm only saying that because, you know, I, I'm someone who likes to take things slow and you know, I just didn't want there to be any kind of expectations around it because I'm, you know, in normal. In the normal time, I would be doing something different. But I do think that the world is changing a little bit now. So I feel like that's becoming less and less necessary as a thing. So maybe, maybe that's already not necessary.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for that. And you know, I'm, I'm glad you're still getting through dating during this pandemic. I'm very. It makes me quite optimistic about the future of. Future of love. Well, thank you so much and I hope that helps and stay safe out there if you're dating during these fraught times of pandemic and whatnot. And yeah, we'll see you on the next episode. If you haven't already and you really want to come join our virtual retreat. We are doing an early bird special. We currently have 25% off and we only have that till 30th of April. So this is the time to grab your ticket if, you know, you want to make a big change this year. Not just in your relationships, but your confidence, your goals, where you're going, everything in your life. This is the event to come on. Go to MH Virtual Retreat and you'll get 25% off and some awesome bonuses, including, I believe, a little Q and A with you, Matt.

Yeah, I'll be doing a Q and A with everyone who signs up on the early bird list.

Awesome. Well, that is in September 24th to 26th. If you want to go, grab your ticket. Mhvirtualretreat.com and we'll see you then.

I see the vlog sites. Got a new wife, shorty? Got a new boo.

Yeah. Love.

Beautiful.

Looking for love.

Thank you for listening, everybody. Do not forget to go and watch the replay of the Year of Love event I did this month. It's completely free, but it's only available a couple more days. This is going to set you up to find the love you want in 2026. Come and watch it now before it disappears. You can watch it@mhyearoflove.com that's mhyearoflove.com I will see you there. Foreign.

Hey, it's Raj and Noah, and we're back with a new season of Am I Doing It Wrong? The show that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.

Because we're still doing a lot of stuff wrong.

But who isn't? That's why each week we're talking about the topics that we could all use a little helping hit with. Whether it's making new friends as an adult, managing our emotions, or even dreaming.

We'Ll be talking to experts in their fields who are definitely doing things right, so the rest of us can be a bit wiser and a lot better equipped to handle whatever life throws at us.

Subscribe now and listen to new episodes of Am I Doing It Wrong? Dropping every Thursday starting January 1st, wherever you get your podcasts.

And for the first time ever, we're gonna have full video episodes on YouTube. Because as long as there are things to get wrong, we're gonna be right here to help you do them better.

Love you all.

New.