Stop Overthinking: How to Beat Anxiety in Dating

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Welcome everybody to another episode of Love Life. I'm here with Stephen and Audrey right now and we have a great episode for you today. Today's episode is about anxiety and the way that it shows up in our lives, especially in early dating and and in relationships. But actually we end up getting into the way anxiety sabotages our relationships in general, how abandonment wounds can create anxious attachment styles. Me and Audrey get pretty personal in this episode in a way that has left me feeling incredibly naked. So enjoy listening to this to the end and knowing more about us. We talk about the ways that we can overcome some of our anxiety when we're not getting texted back, when someone's subtly shifted in their energy or what seems to be their level of interest or their consistency. Steven offers up an incredibly practical model for moving through anxiety. We talk about one of my favorite concepts from my retreat program in terms of redirecting negative emotions towards positive ones. So if you are in a situation right now that is making you anxious, if you feel like you are struggling or even tortured by your anxiety right now, you are in the right place. I believe that this episode is going to be an enormous pressure valve for your anxiety and one that you keep coming back to over and over again. Also coming up for all of our Love Life members, we have some amazing new courses inside Love Life. Steven just did a great one called the Flame Method, which is for anyone who's struggling to meet people. Audrey did an amazing one on NAVIGATING mixed signals. For anyone who feels like they're with someone who's blowing hot and cold or is inconsistent, we have Love Life Live London coming up on the 21st of August that is now sold out. So I can't wait to see you all there. We also have a member meetup happening in Miami on October 20th for anyone who wants to come out and meet other Love Life members there. All of that is inside Love Life. If you're not a member right now, you can become one at. Join lovelife.com.

Welcome back to the Love Life podcast, everybody. Matt has a kinked neck.

I thought you were just gonna say.

Matt has a kink tattoo, but no, a kinked neck.

He's hanging by a throat.

Funny, didn't you?

Yeah, I slept funny. I tried to go to Jiu Jitsu this morning. You told me not to. It was 5:45am and you said, don't go. And I was like, no, this is Audrey breeding weakness in me.

Matt is such the guy. You're such the guy to go to the gym. Even when you're injured, you just won't rest it, will you?

I said to him, I was like, you're literally going to make yourself worse, and then you're not going to be able to work out all week. And also, Jiu Jitsu is just about the worst thing you could possibly do with a kinked neck. And he was like, no, no, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go. And then if I don't feel well, I'll come back. And then what happened?

I came back. I went for. For about 15 minutes. I was sort of rolling around, and then I was like, I can't do this. So the. My. My trainer said, you, you can, you know, stay and watch. And I went, I think I've got too much to do. I don't. I think I. I think for now I'll draw the line sitting and, and watching other people because I just. Yeah. So I. So I came, I drove back. Got you a little matcher on the way. So it turned out well for you.

Yeah, it did work out well.

Yeah. You were happy. Alfred sat in bed with your little matcha.

Alfred's matcha. Pretty good. Not as good as Blue Bottle Matcha, but, you know, pretty good.

I thought Alfred Matcha, she. You were going to tell a story of, like, the history of Matcha. I was like, did it come from a man named Alfred Madalo?

Don't fix it. It comes from Kyoto.

Right? So that would have been weird.

Japanese. Well, we Have a really interesting subject today, Anxiety. Anxiety.

I have a little bit right now. I'm flying in two days and I can feel the onset of pre flight anxiety.

Why are you, in what sense?

You know, before a flight you just feel like I'm not going to be here now for a while. I have to sort out everything here before I leave and I know when it's coming on and it's about 48 hours before the flight.

Yeah, I get that too. Like the packing. Am I going to pack everything? Right? Like do I need to order things before I go? Do I have all the things I need? Yeah, like yeah, I agree.

Would you say anxiety is your dominant sort of negative emotion when you have them?

That is a good question. I think it's probably the one I've done the most work on in my life. I think in terms of just ones that have affected my general well being.

Yeah.

On a day to day basis. Same with you?

Oh, 100%. Yeah.

But I feel I've gotten a lot better at it. A lot better. I think I was very anxious as a 20 year old.

But I bet you didn't call it anxiety back then.

No, I just thought I was a worrier. I guess I called it a worrier.

Yeah.

Overthinker.

Overthinker.

Yeah. I didn't start associating with having anxiety until my 30s and then I realized I've always had anxiety. Like it didn't come on in my 30s. I think it became quite pronounced in my 30s, which was, you know, I started to realize like it had become very heightened. But I, I, I realized, oh, I've always had some form of anxiety.

Oh yeah. I was an anxious teenager as well. And I think at that age you don't realize it's not normal for everyone. You don't realize there are more people who don't worry as much as you do. Don't fret about everything. Yeah, yeah.

Well, one of the areas of course that anxiety afflicts all of us is when we really want something, whether it's a job, whether it's a deal to come off, whether it's a relationship to work. And we start getting anxiety about the fact that it's not working or it's slipping through our fingers. And of course for so many people there's nothing they want more than to find love. So anxiety shows up very prominently for people who get anxious in early dating.

It shows up as well in, I think in all stages of relationships. It starts in early dating. But if you're prone to Anxiety, it can kind of follow you and haunt you into a long term relationship. I have a question for you guys. I wrote this down. How do you stop anxiety from convincing you that every little thing the other person does is a sign that they're not into you or that they're losing interest?

I am a big believer in labeling these things because if you can label it, you've already kind of won half the battle, 100%. Anxiety doesn't want. It's almost like if you imagine anxiety as a, as a being, it doesn't want you to look at, wants you to look at the thing that it's anxious about. Because if you assume anxiety's job is to keep you safe, you know, let's say it was born in a time in your life where you, you realized that you needed to worry a lot in order to stay safe or that you weren't safe and that the way to be safe was to control everything or to become hyper vigilant so that you never missed anything. We all have our response systems that we've developed to stay safe, to stay alive, to survive, whether physically or emotionally. And so if you imagine that this being's entire reason for existing is to try to keep you safe, then it doesn't want you to focus on, wants to get you to focus on the things that it's decided represent danger. And I imagine that a bit like a, like a, a grabbing hand or like, like the grabber in a, you know, the claw in a grabbing machine. What do you call those, what do you, what do they call those in America? And we call them grabbers, I guess.

But I don't know.

What do you call the claw machines?

Claw machines.

Claw machines. Who'd have thought? Yeah, so I imagine anxiety like that claw that is constantly like going through your life seeking things to be worried about, seeking things to be anxious about. And it's, it grabs onto something and when it grabs onto something, it's saying, look at this, this is a problem, this is danger, this is scary. We need to focus non stop on this thing until it gets resolved. And then by the way, when it does get resolved is worth noticing what that claw does. The claw of anxiety immediately starts looking for the next thing. Like it's like a child who's now not interested in that toy, but instantly starts looking for another one and it grabs onto that one and it says, now look at this thing and obsess over it and don't think about anything else. And the trap we fall into is that we take it, we Take the claw very, very seriously. And it's like, that's like the, you know, that's the gospel is like, I should be worried about this. My anxiety is focused on this. I should be worried about this. But very rarely do we turn our attention to the hand itself, to the claw itself, to the thing that's grabbing, that's always grabbing, that will grab again and again and again, and is never not grabbing. And I think the moment we're able to bring awareness to that mechanism, to that claw, all of a sudden it gives us the ability to take everything that we get anxious about in any given day a lot less at face value, at the very least. So that to me is like, that's my starting point is if we are people who get anxious because it's less likely that you're someone who never gets anxious, and then all of a sudden you start dating someone and now you're filled with anxiety, it could happen, but it's less likely. It's more likely that anxiety is a pattern that we experience. And we didn't just experience it with this person. We experienced it the last time we really liked someone and the time before that. And so when you notice that and you're able to see, oh, like, let me put my focus on the claw, not on the thing the claw has latched onto. Now we get a little bit of space between us and the thing that we're worried about. That would be my starting point. I'm curious as to your what you two think, but that's my beginning point, is label it for what it is.

So when the anxiety feels like it could be legitimate, how do you get rid of it then?

Even so, firstly, I still think it's important to say if I wasn't getting anxious about this, I might just be getting anxious about something else. So it's still like, there's this space for some for me to be anxious about something, and this is what's occupying that space right now. So firstly, let's not convince ourselves that if I didn't have this anxiety, my anxiety wouldn't just find another placeholder. But secondly, even what you're saying is if someone's not texting you back, it may very well be that they're losing interest. And how do we mitigate for that? That we might be right, our anxiety might be right, they might not be into us. I've had plenty of times where my hyper vigilance, because I'm hyper vigilant, where that has, you know, made me sense an energy shift in someone and people around me are like, no, they're fine. Oh, you're overthinking it or whatever. And I'm like, no, no, no. I've sensed an energy shift in that person. And then it turns out I'm right. Not just romantically, I'm saying business, friendships, all sorts of things. Like, I, I am much better than the average person because of my, my anxiety sensing when something has changed or when someone's tone of voice is giving away that they're a little bit off with me or mad at me in a way that other people wouldn't notice. But the anxiety, it goes one step further than picking up sometimes rightly, on changes in cues. It's what, it's the conclusions it comes to about that. So the anxiety will not just say this. I feel like this person is like slightly off with me right now. It will say, and there's nothing you can do to turn that around.

And I'll never hear from them again.

And I'll never hear from them again or the whole thing's going to fall through. Like, that's the secondary anxious thought. The anxiety doesn't just say, this person's losing interest. It says, and I'll never meet anyone that great again.

Yes. And I actually delivered a course recently in our love life coaching group on this topic of anxiety. And I stressed the importance at the beginning of building a mental map of what is going on under the hood.

Explain that to me.

Well, because if you just have generalized feeling of anxiety, it's like it doesn't know where to go. You have some trigger response. Obsessive scrolling their social media, checking all their texts, doing some bad food, drink, whatever your numbing activity is. But if you build a mental map, you can at least see what was the trigger that set me off, what was the thing, and what is the fear underneath it that is prompting the anxiety response, as you said, is that fear if they, if I reveal too much, they're gonna suddenly not like me. Now if they don't respond, that means they're not attracted anymore or I can't trust anyone. If your response every time they're. They go disappear for six hours, I don't know who they're with, I don't know what they're doing. So their response is, if I let someone on the leash, off the leash too much, they're going to betray me. So you kind of want to get under the hood and see what the anxiety is. And then one thing you can do to soothe it is just what they call a reality. Check where you can just start to list out what are the facts of this situation. The facts might be our last conversation was really positive and we made plans for after they get back from their trip. They text me the other day to say they were going to be quite busy. I have not been given a reason not to trust this person yet. They haven't done anything to indicate their feelings of change or even just it's 12pm and it's a different time where they are so they might be out to dinner, they might be busy. They don't. They can all just be different facts of the situation. And at least that then gives you a sober look at like, what's the reality? Have I actually got an indication that they've suddenly changed their mind? And oh, actually, after our first day, I really don't like you now. So at least then you have what's the story I'm replaying on loop so I understand it. And what are the facts of this situation? That should be one of your first steps so you don't spiral out of control.

I really like that. I think it's important the combination of, of doing a reality check on those facts with a kind of acceptance of oh, even if the facts didn't swing my way, or even if I laid out all the facts and it turned out I was wrong and this person is mad at me or this person isn't interested anymore, or they are losing interest. Pairing that reality check with an understanding of the ways that we are catastrophizing about the results of this if they don't go our way is. Is a very powerful combination because what you just said can lower the temperature on and give you some objectivity. But realizing that you're catastrophizing about how bad it would be even if it didn't swing your way is really, really important.

Yeah, that's right.

Is it really true I'll never meet anyone again? Is it really true I'll never feel this way again? Is it really. Have I been the luckiest person in the world to meet an awesome person? Or is it the case that actually people do meet awesome people in this lifetime? And by the way, is it true that I'll never survive on my own because I've been surviving on my own until now that realizing that it's a. It's called a cognitive distortion. Catastrophizing is a cognitive distortion and it's a really, really lethal one because it tells us that if this doesn't swing our way, we'll never survive. We'll never recover, we'll never be okay again. And that is a very, very important thing. To the same way we label anxiety as anxiety, when we have a cognitive distortion, we have to step back from it and label it a cognitive distortion.

Yeah. And what you're doing there is you're challenging the story someone is telling themselves. The story is, this will be so terrible if this is true or this rejection means something really fundamental, that I'm not lovable. Like if you have a feeling of inferiority or low self esteem, you can take any rejection as further evidence of a story. You're unlovable and you want to challenge that story as much as you can. Like even looking at past evidence. Here's all the people who do think I'm lovable. Here's all the kind words people have said to me when I procrastinate. I used to catastrophize and even a therapist told me once, like, you have such a dramatic thing going on in your mind that doesn't cohere with the actual thing that's happening in front of you. Like, I'm procrastinating on this. That means I'll never be able to do this. That means I'll never be successful. That means I can never. I'm hopeless. And it'd be like, but there's loads of evidence you have finished things. There's loads of times you did get through that. There's loads of times you worried about something and you managed to actually complete that and people gave you praise for it. But we have this recency bias that looks at the latest thing and just says, see, this is evidence I'm not lovable. And you forget all the other scope of experiences you've had.

We actually put a poll up about this subject on Instagram. We asked, do you think anxiety has interfered with your inability to find a partner? And an incredible 86% of people said yes. Wow, 86%. That is wild. 14 said no. Jealous of those 14% who are just.

Like, nah, those 14% are making the rest of our lives hell.

Yeah.

I mean they're the ones going around breaking all of our hearts.

We asked a follow up question. We said, if you answered yes, how? And the options were, I shut down and left. It interfered with my confidence, I'm too nervous to even date. Or I drove them away by over communicating. And I was going to ask you what you guys thought, but you've already been looking at the results so I will just tell you, well, you didn't.

Cover them up very well. You supposed to have them here like a set of cards.

So 13% of people said I shut down and left. 41% of people said it interfered with my confidence. 16% said I'm too nervous to even date. And 30% said I drove them away by over communicating. And I suppose what's interesting to me about this is all of the stuff you're sharing is so powerful, but it's quite advanced. And I think what I'm reading in this is that I drove them away by over communicating and it interfered with my confidence. They're almost very kind of reactive responses that people have when they feel anxious. It's like a defense mechanism, like checking, like, is everything okay? Are you mad at me? Do you still love me? Are we okay? I feel this way, like you did this wrong. You know, that's. That would be over communicating and interfered with my confidence is like you're not actually able to be yourself. You're not able to relax. You're not able to like be a kind of attractive and good version of yourself because you're so afraid. You're almost like coming at it with like, you know, like just like squinting, ready to get hit. And you know, I think that's really interesting because those are not necessarily behaviors that people can help. They're very kind of reactive, unconscious protective, which is what anxiety does, right? It's trying to protect you from an outcome that you perceive to be a threat. To your point earlier, something that you perceive to be really, really bad. And in dating, I think we may logically know that something isn't the end of the world if it doesn't work out, we may know, like, yeah, of course I'll meet other people. Of course there's been other, other people who have liked me before. But what do you do when emotionally you just can't get yourself there? So the logic doesn't actually, you know, emotion comes before logic a lot of the time. And so I'm just curious what you guys think about that. Like, how do you get your emotional self bought into this idea that you will be okay and you just need to breathe and everything's going to be fine?

Foreign.

Hey guys, I know it's the summer holidays and so many of you are going to be booking trips, travel and holidays. So we wanted to bring to you what is one of our favorite travel hacks when we go away, and that is to get an eim. I don't know if you guys have had this experience before, but either one of two things happens when you go away. Either you come home after a week, two week long trip to a phone bill that makes your eyes water and you cannot believe you spent so much money. Or you make a commitment, like I have done many times in the past, not to use your data. You turn all of your data settings off and you end up spending the entirety of your trip trying to chase down wi fi and dodgy Internet cafes and restaurants, which is no fun. This is why when Matt and I travel now, we always use an electronic sim. And a company that is really, really great to use because of how user friendly they are is Saily.

We are using Saily for our trip that's coming up to London. We're going to be there for four weeks, so we don't want to face the charges for roaming that we would have over a month in London with our American sims. So instead we're using Saily. It's super affordable. We literally just downloaded the app, bought our plan and then from the moment we land in London, it activates. And actually there's even a security feature you can turn on inside the app that blocks the malicious ads that we get when we're abroad and also creates a safer browsing experience. You can get this too for your next trip if you just go to your app store for either Android or iOS and download the Saily app spelt S A I L Y. You can download the app and when you get to checkout, use the discount code Love Life for a 15 discount on your first purchase. If you're anything like me, you forget this stuff. So try to do it now while you remember before your next trip. And that way when you're there, you have peace of mind that you're not being charged a fortune for being abroad. Go to the app store, download Saily, use the discount code love life for 15 off. Well, you know, I am a big fan of the concept of emotional buttons which we talk about on the retreat. They are kind of triggers for the act as a kind of way of redirecting our emotions to somewhere we want to go. So for example, the emotional response you just talked about was that of I feel like in some way I've screwed up with this person and now they're not going to be into me and I and my emotional, you know, despite the idea that there's plenty more fish in the sea and blah, blah, blah, my emotional experience is, yeah, but I really like this one and I haven't met anyone in a long time and this feels like it felt special and I don't want to blow This I really want it to work. And now I'm hating on myself that I did something that maybe has pushed them away. An emotional button would be like a trigger that you could insert there that would instantly give you a different feeling.

And therefore allow you to act differently. More importantly.

Yeah, because it changes your whole temperature. It changes the emotional environment that you're operating in. So, for example, an emotional button for this could be. You don't have to get a perfect score when it's the right person. Your anxiety, the emotion, is feeding on this idea that you screwed it up. The emotional button can be actually, when it's the right person, you don't need to get a perfect score. Not needing to get a perfect score might actually be much more of an indicator that you're with the right person than attracting someone. Because you got a perfect score on all of your behavior and didn't do anything wrong and didn't put a single foot out of line and never said anything stupid or never, you know, pushed a little bit too hard in an area that your person is someone you don't need to have a perfect score with. So that even just that thought, which is an interrupting thought, can be an emotional button for realizing that actually some messiness along the way can be part of you realizing you're with the right person. Because the right person will make space for you, for who you actually are.

And if you're wondering, you know, you're like, yeah, that wouldn't work for me. That thought wouldn't work for me. Which I think a lot of people would be thinking, like, yeah, but that's like, you're just placating yourself. It's like, it wouldn't actually make me feel better. You have a whole mechanism on how to actually make it stick. Right. And to actually make it something that you're not just abstractly thinking and telling yourself, like, it's not just some affirmation you don't believe in.

The whole point of emotional buttons is that you find something that is real to you. So what works for me as an emotional button might not work for you. You create them based on what really speaks to you. Like, I have emotional buttons that make me go to the gym. They may not work to get you to the gym. So when we're doing these exercises to create these, it's some. It's intensely specific for each person. But the point I'm making for our purposes right now is simply that you can fight emotion with emotion. You don't always have to fight emotion with logic. There can be an equally powerful emotional concept or core that you use to interrupt the anxiety that you're feeling right now.

I often find changing, even the emotion I'm associating with, the behavior they're showing is really powerful for me as well. Where someone giving you one word answers and being flaky, if you can change that emotion to, that's boring. That doesn't make. That means this person is wrong for me. That means we're not very compatible or connected to your needs. I need consistency. I can't be in a relationship where I have to do the perfect move every time. Like, that's not going to work. If you can do that, you, you don't fear it so much. You actually just take it as information.

Yeah, I, I totally agree.

Yeah. And I suppose for anyone listening who feels like they're not connected to their needs and you know, because there's a bunch of people who will be like, but I just need them to like me. I don't forget about me, forget about what I want, forget about what makes me happy. I just need them to like me. Because then if they like me, I can just at least relax, exhale, feel safe, and then, then I can decide whether I actually want to be with them. But like, until I feel safe and I feel like they actually like me, I can't relax. I think for people who are feeling that way, it's really important as well to remember that you have probably overcome a lot of hardship in your life that you also didn't think you could get over. You know, it's like when you're going through a breakup, you've probably been through heartbreak before. You've probably been through a lot of very, very painful emotions where you said to yourself, I'll never get over this. This is the worst I'm ever going to feel. And here you are today, not caring about that thing back then, but caring so deeply about this thing today. And so there's something interesting about that. Our anxiety makes us think, it's very centralizing and it really makes us think like there is nothing more important and more terrible than this thing that we're focusing on. You know, it's very like, yeah, anxiety.

Narrows your focus and that's the danger of it. And you want things that make you more expansive. It's like if you have one failure in a part of your career, one. The, you know, one of the mindset shifts you can just have is just take a much more expansive view of what your opportunity set is. Like, this is just one point in the big circle of all the possibilities, there's tons of points of things you could do in your career right now, Options, things you could create, people you could reach out to. If you can start expanding your focus to what other things are possible right now. What could I be curious about? What are you. Three other opportunities I could pursue if this doesn't work out. You start to just give yourself that exhale, like, yeah, I might be sad if this goes. Like, acknowledge it. It's okay. I might be sad if this person decides I'm not right for them. But it's also not the end. There's also a whole next three, four, five chapters of the story and a whole new set of things I can do right now.

Scarcity and anxiety are like best friends.

Yes.

And then, you know, like abundance and feeling relaxed and in flow and kind of accepting of life also, they go really nicely together. So it's almost like trying to pick one camp. And if you feel like you're always in the kind of anxious camp, it's like, you know, how do I get myself over to the other side of it a little bit?

I think we put this to the test a little bit. You know, I've been in your home watching for the last couple months, as, you know, you guys are working, but also, you know, are about to become parents. And I thought, you know, you know, that's probably. If I were in your shoes, I'd have some anxiety about that. Have you guys developed any strategies, anything like. Or used strategies that you already have mentioned in this episode to help curb some of those anxieties? I'm curious if anything comes up.

I'm trying. So. Okay, let me think. What are my anxieties about having a child on the way? I. I really like my routines, and my routines are part of what kind of keep me sane and keep my mental health in check. So I think that there is a. I probably have an anxiety around, you know, losing routine or feeling like, you know, there's going to be just something that's just incredibly disruptive and is going to throw me off that track. And if I get thrown off, that catastrophic thought is if I get thrown off that track, my mental health is going to suffer and then work is going to suffer and then.

So there's.

There's probably. That's an anxiety. We were with friends the other day, and one of that. They. They had had a child a year ago, and one of the pieces of advice they gave us was like, you have like three or four big things that you do in your life that are really important to you. And the advice that no one ever gave us, that I think is really good advice, is like, figure out now which one is going to take a backseat. Like, which one are you going to drop for a while? And the guy was talking to us, and he was like, for me, it was working out. Like, work remained really important because I'm in the middle of starting a company. Our relationship remained really important. Baby was really important. But working out went out the window to me. And the whole time he was speaking, I just went, I don't know. There's none I want to drop. There's not an area I can think of right now that I'm like, yeah, that one takes a backseat. So I. Part of how I mitigate that right now is that because we have months ahead of that, I'm like, okay, let's, like, let's start to ask these questions, and let's also put some real strategies in place, like, what do we need to do in order to actually prepare ourselves for this so that it doesn't just sneak up on us? And we've done a lot of that. Like, we've done a lot of thinking about it, a lot of strategizing. So we're not going in blind to that. I think I'm trying to think where else my head goes. That relaxes me and takes me away from anxiety. I think that I have role models in my life that are extremely busy people who. Some of them are, like, the most positive people I've ever met when it comes to having kids. So I choose to focus on them. Like, there's no shortage of people who immediately get negative when they start. When you ask them about kids, it's crazy. Like, it's such a form of, like, I think, cathartic venting for people that they want to be seen for how hard it's been.

It's a coping mechanism.

It's a coping mechanism. So you ask them about kids, and they're like, oh, get ready, get ready. Enjoy your time now. And you're like, this is so not. I get why people do it. I do. But it's absolutely the opposite of what I need to hear for any of my own anxieties about it. So I proactively, like, I spotlight the stories. I'm like, you know what's like, a show? I'm like, 60 minutes in my own life for the people that talk about it beautifully. I'm like, you're my comp. You're my case study. Like, you're who I'm focusing on. And when I do that, I'm like, okay, yeah, it's going to be. Of course it's going to be messy, and of course we're not going to have it all figured out, and we're not going to be ready in every way, and we can't strategize for every part of it. But there's an everyone, like all these people I admire who talk about it have such. They look at it as this expansive thing, like, expanded them, expanded their world. And. And I focus on that, and I'm like, well, whatever happens, this is going to be a really expansive experience. And whatever structure I lose, I'm going to gain in my ability to expand and my ability to pour that back into also my creativity and how we help people and all of that. So I think that's where I reorient my focus. I choose different people to focus on. I choose my stories very carefully for who I'm looking at. I get. I. I really don't listen a lot to the people who predict doom. And we're also doing work to strategize ahead of time. I think that's how I mitigate it.

It's really good.

What about you?

Oh, God, I have to follow that.

I probably stole a lot of your answers.

What am I anxious about? I. My main anxiety is I'm not gonna like it, which is crazy because, like, I wanted to have a child, and if I couldn't, I would be sad that I wasn't doing it. So it's not like this was unplanned and like a surprise, but now it's happening. It's like it's happening, you know, like, you just have this extra thing that's just going on and you can't really control it. And you're then going to be responsible for their happiness forevermore and make sure that they're okay. And. And that's really exciting to me. But I get anxious that, what if I don't like it? And then I can't, like, go back, which apparently is a normal, normal fear to have. And. And I think for me, I mitigate that by just reminding myself that I really wanted this. And also, like, I think so much of life is what you choose it to be like. I think if you go into it going, this is going to be amazing. If every moment that is amazing, you recognize, appreciate, are grateful for how amazing it is for the hard moments, you just recognize that it's hard. But everything is a phase, you know, whether it's in your, you know, you being single right now and struggling with being single, it's a phase. Like, you're not always going to be single. You're gonna date people. You're going to be in relationships. Those relationships may last, they may end. Everything ebbs and flows. Everything's impermanent. And having a child is kind of the same thing. Right. It's like, maybe there's. Whether it's newborn or two or whatever, there's like, harder moments than others, but they're all phases. And I kind of feel like if I don't like it in a moment, it doesn't mean I'm not gonna like it forever. And I think, yeah, I just think it's gonna be what I make of it. And if I think it's gonna be great and I appreciate it for all of the goodness that it brings me and, you know, more love and all of those things, then I. It helps. It helps with that thought.

I always love when you say that everything's a phase. I think that's a really encouraging and empowering thought.

Yeah. And it's really applicable to everything in life. You know, our suffering makes us feel that we will always feel like this. Like, it's kind of what we were saying about this anxiety. It ties back perfectly. It's, you know, someone's not texting you back. You're sat there looking at your phone and you're going to. I will not be okay because this person hasn't texted me. And I will never hear from them again. And therefore, I will never find love. And I cannot get back out there and face another person, another day, another disappointment in love. But, like, everything's a phase. And you felt that before, and you also felt really happy before. And you will feel happy again, and you will feel excited about someone and you will be in love, and you will maybe fall out of love or maybe not. Like, it's just. Everything is just going to change. Like, that is the one thing you can guarantee in life is that it all changes. And at the end of your life, you're kind of on your own. So it's sort of like everything that happens in your life and comes into it, whether it's a child, whether it's a disappointment in love, whether it's a great love, whether it's a great job or whatever. Like, what you can know for sure is that that will eventually end. Whether you die, they die. It ends because it ends. You retire, they leave you, you leave them, whatever. Like, there's. Everything will have an end. And in the end, you're just going to look at your life and be like, did I have a good life? Did I have a lot of love in my life? A lot of great relationships in my life? And I don't know. I know it's like a very easy thing to say because when you're stuck in your anxiety, I appreciate that that's not really helpful. But I just, I do think that everything is a phase and, and we can't get too attached either way to the good and the bad because it's, it's not sticking around.

Yeah. Sometimes I do tap into. And that was beautiful. Thank you. Sometimes I do tap into that thought of just even looking back and being like, do I want to look at my whole life and realize I spent so much of it just, just not enjoying those parts? Do I want to look at so many days that I spent in thinking about the future?

Such a good point.

And just as simple as that. It's just sometimes I'm just like, I, let's just make this day a day that I don't feel bad about. I don't feel bad and worry. Like, I actually just embrace it and enjoy it because one day I'll think, oh my God, when I was in my 30s, that was the best.

Yeah, I, I really relate to that. I spent so much of my 20s being. So my 20s were really, really tumultuous and they were really difficult years for me. And like, I had a lot of anxiety, a lot of, you know, I experienced depression, a lot of different things like that. And I look back at my 20s with almost like a bit of grief because I feel like, oh, if I knew then what I know now about happiness and chasing the wrong things and, you know, like, in some cases, like self medicating it with different things in my life to make myself feel better, I would have had such a nicer experience of being 20 something, but my 20s were so rough and like, I just look at my life now in my 30s and I'm like, I just really wish I could like, give myself those lessons. And so I don't want to, to your point, like, do the same thing when I'm 40 and look at my 30s and be like, look at how much I worried about this and that. And I. It's a work in progress because I definitely am very anxious still today about various different things. But I think that's such a good point, Stephen.

So, guys, we have been talking about the emotions that take us over. In the case of this episode, we've been talking specifically about anxiety, but if you're anything like me, your brain is not one that is naturally just calm. You get triggered. Life, if you're not careful, can turn into a bit of an emotional roller coaster. And especially when you get sucked into an emotion like anxiety, if you're not careful, it can be very hard to get out of it again. And then we become reactive. We make mistakes, we do things we wish we hadn't done. Not to mention we just find that life is a lot less enjoyable. We feel tortured, we feel unable to enjoy our day or be present. I've had that feeling so many times in my life where I'm not able to really enjoy the moment in what I'm doing because I'm just spiraling emotionally. It's because of this that I created a concept I call Emotional buttons. And this is more than a concept. It's a set of tools that I use in my life every single day. I spoke about it earlier in this episode. I couldn't be more passionate about this particular subject because it's one of the tools that I found most useful in my life for controlling my emotions and for being able to put an end to negative emotions when I feel them and bring about really positive, beautiful states. I'm saying this because over the last 17 years I have been teaching a session on my retreat program all about emotional buttons as a tool and how to use it. And so many of you have DMed me over the years saying that you struggle with anxiety, many struggle with depression, many struggle with self doubt and don't know how to get out of those states. So I wanted to do something for a limited amount of time where I took my session from the retreat on emotional buttons and shared part of it with you free of charge so that you can just experience this tool for yourself. Whether or not you get to a retreat, I want you to be able to experience this tool. Of course, my hope is that you come and join me on the retreat because it's truly a life changing program and this is one of many tools I give you. But at the very least, I actually want you as a listener of this podcast to be able to access this tool and start using it. And if this episode is resonating with you, then I know this tool is going to be life changing for you. People fly from all, all over the world to experience it. And you can experience part of that literally right now by going to insidetheretreat.com which is where I have put this session temporarily for you to Go and experience it. So maybe you're in an emotion like that right now and you want to change it then. Perfect. The timing is amazing. Or maybe you just know you have a pattern and of being on these emotional cycles in your life and you know you're going to need it again an hour from now and tomorrow and the next day, in which case you can watch it multiple times before it disappears. No matter what, go watch it while it's there. It's inside the retreat.com and you'll see what I mean when I say that this tool has changed the lives of thousands of people who have been to a retreat who are now out there using it in their daily lives. Go check it out. I'll see you there. And now back to the episode. Well, we have a love life line here from Laverne who says I just watched your YouTube video about being anxious when dating and this is exactly what I am dealing with. I have been dating this guy for only a few weeks and I'm going through some severe anxiousness about him going out with the guys. The first time it was to a hockey game and renting a motel room. I would have been okay with the hockey game but the motel room triggered me. Why did he need to rent a motel room when he lives in the burbs of the city and close enough to go home after the game? I can understand a few beers with the guys after afterwards, but the mention of the of the motel room brought my anxiety through the roof. I obviously have trust issues around dating. I cut him off for a bit. Then once I felt okay, re established contact again. Now he is out of town for work and when we talked earlier in the day I told him I was falling in love. Later in the evening I text him and he was short and in a hurry and he tells me that he is going to the pub to eat and he will message me later. No problem. But once it gets close to midnight and I realize his later meant not after he ate, but some other time not in that same day, I freaked again. I don't know him enough to know if he is a huge flirt or a serial cheater and he obviously meant he was having a night out at the pub, not just a meal. It's too much anxiety for me and I just don't know if I can do this relationship. I don't feel secure and I am so scared of getting cheated on and not cared about enough help.

I would feel I would feel the same way as Laverne.

So you feel what she's worried about actually is legitimate.

Well, I don't know if it's legitimate. I don't know if he's actually, you know, going off and doing a bunch of untoward things, but I would feel exactly the same way, Levan. So just. I want to validate.

So someone said they're going to a game, but they're getting a motel room afterwards, even though they live not that far away.

I could see how that would trigger me in, like, an early dating situation with someone. I don't know who I really like, especially if they were like. Because it sounds almost like that wasn't premeditated. It sounds like it just happened. So I get it. I. I would. I would find that to be a little bit uncomfortable. And it's.

And he said he's out of town for work, and she's then said to him, I'm falling in love. And then he sort of. It sounds like a bit short in that same day and in a hurry and goes to the pub to eat and doesn't even message her back that same day.

Yeah, I just. My. My principle here, which I think is really important, is like, your intuition here is telling you. You said it. You spelled it out. Laverne, I don't feel safe in this relationship, and I don't think the person who is right for you makes you feel this unsafe this early on. And even if he just has a different communication style, he is just someone who enjoys going out of his friends, doing whatever he likes to do, and there's nothing to do with other women, and he's not going to cheat and whatever, he may still just not be the right person.

So it's not necessarily that he's doing something wrong, although he could be, but who knows? Even if he's not, you're saying it's a compatibility issue?

Yeah. I had a boyfriend when I was in my 20s. I was with him for a few years, and he was very much like, loved going out, loved being with his friends, loved partying, loved all of that stuff. And we were 20 something, so fine. But it just always made me anxious. It always made me anxious because I wouldn't hear from him, I wouldn't know where he was, all of those things. Like. And when I was with you, when you and I were dating, one of the things I really appreciated about you and I'm sure you appreciate kinda like, you're not that person and I'm not that person. And I think that was really. That made us very compatible, because then it wasn't like I feel massively unsafe because every other weekend you're going out, staying out, I don't hear from you. And I just have to trust that, like, there's nothing untoward happening. And if. If my trauma and my triggers mean that, I struggle to believe that, I'm just constantly living in a state of feeling anxious, and I just don't want to.

Thank you so much, Laverne, for that question. Really, really great question. If you want to email us your question, email podcast matthew hussey.com Tell us your opinions on the episode, your thoughts, any stories, any questions you have. Not too long, because if you write a thousand words, we probably won't be able to read it on the show. If you can keep your emails to, like, 200 to 300 words, that's the optimal length for us to read them out and answer your questions. Podcast.com we had some comments on some recent episodes. Episode 305 subtle flirting signs that actually work. Someone emailed into podcastathuhussey.com thanks for your podcast on flirting. Something that kept coming up for me was that I resist flirting at times because I'm afraid that if I open that door because at that time I'm feeling confident, willing to take a risk, or feeling silly and end up not being interested in the person, I'll have trapped myself in a situation where I now have to let them down.

I relate to that.

Is this something you can speak to? Well, Audrey is someone who relates to that. What would you say to this person.

That feels a bit avoidant?

Right?

Yeah, no, it is a bit. Yeah, I relate to that. I. I don't. I don't know how to combat it other than just like, I think you just have to pick your regrets, right? It's like, are you gonna go the rest of your life not actually putting yourself out there and therefore not having opportunities with people you do like, or are you going to sometimes get it wrong and, you know, attract someone that you decide you don't like and it's okay. Like, people can take a rejection. We're all, you know, we all have broad shoulders. And I think if you just flirt with somebody and you end up deciding you no longer feel that way, you can definitely kind of go back to being far more friendly and making that clear. So just don't overthink it and don't let that mindset block you. But I do relate to it.

Even the loveliest people in the world have to reject people and be the villain to some people. That's just the way it is. Our Chowder said about the same episode, episode 305 on flirting. The soft crab comments made me laugh so much. You guys are cute. I can't. What was the soft crab comment?

I said soft crab instead of soft shell crabs. I also got a lot of DMS on Instagram Reg. A lot of people messaged me about.

What were they saying? Like, it's okay.

No, they were just laughing and saying they like, just laughing. Someone sent me a meme.

I like the person who sent this comment. It's called Chowder.

Yes, I thought that.

Do you think they set up that account specifically for crab comments?

No, I think they're called Chowder and they heard crab one like, well, I.

Think this is my domain.

Hello.

Chowder doesn't usually involve crab. So it's like, it's nice to see the downfall of a, you know, not used ingredient.

Yeah. Yeah, fair enough. Well, Chowder, Chowder, thank you for that comment. These were about that episode on YouTube. Share a Sale6480 said. I quite enjoyed Stock Talk Flirtation Edition. Please play it again. I love I just the fact that game. You talked about it as an addition of a game that had never been done before.

What are you talking about?

I mean, you didn't just call it Stock Talk.

And I think for anyone who.

For anyone who wants to know, this is where we basically. Stephen helped held up a bunch of stock photos that had been found by David. And we had to explain. We know we had to give examples of how you'd flirt in that particular situation. Some of these stock photos were absolutely bizarre. I don't know what you'd be using.

This is a classic game. We've played it a hundred times in the podcast.

And name me one other edition we've ever done of Stock Talk.

There's Texting Edition.

Never happens.

Workplace Edition right now.

Exactly.

There's Gaslighting Edition.

Gaslighting Edition.

I don't think Matt called it our worst one or one that he thought was.

Yeah. And by the way, it's got the most comments. Rolo Lil Red on YouTube says, OMG, please play that game again. Alias Saricha says, this was my first episode of the podcast and Steve Sleeves had me dying. Great episode all around. Cheers. Sup, son? Said, can I say I'm about to pee my pants from laughing so hard with the cactus picture. In Stock Talk Flirtation Edition, someone said, I feel like that tree guy is my soulmate. You're gonna have to go back and watch this episode, everyone. I love the game. At the end of the episode. It was so funny. Thank you so so clearly a lot of love for Stock Talk Flirtation Edition. People apparently loved that edition of it. David. The only edition that's ever existed. A email sent in on episode 257, which was about how you shouldn't let your anxiety sabotage your relationship. So if you want a great pairing with this episode, go back and listen to episode 257. This came in from Alexa. She said, hi Matthew and Audrey, I just listened to your podcast and it really struck a chord with me. The thing that really helped me and will guide me in approaching those moments of anxiety differently is this. This analogy awareness. Sitting with the feeling, letting it pass and laughing at it versus taking the wheel and continuing to drive. I think I often try to jump to feelings of safety and comfort, so I spiral and create stories in my head to justify why things appear the way they do. This is me continuing to drive, but it's not safe driving. I'm going to practice pulling over, letting the feeling pass, and then getting back on the road again after a good laugh. Appreciate you for everything you do, Alexa. That again came into podcastathewhussey.com which anyone listening can email. Thank you all for those wonderful comments. I look forward to the comments on this episode. Few things have helped my anxiety more than talking to the right person at the right time. That is why I created Matthew AI so that people could talk to me and ask me a question any time they wanted when they were in an anxious state. So if you have something on your mind right now, maybe you're trying to craft the perfect response to someone and you're overthinking it. Maybe their behavior is confusing you and you need my help to decoding what it means. Or maybe you're just in such a triggered state right now that you're in danger of acting in an extremely reactive way that runs the risk of sabotaging it altogether. Matthew AI can help you with your response, help you decode behavior, and help you get out of the state you're in so that you can react with calm and confidence. And you can try it for free by going to askmh.com so think of the one thing you'd love to ask me right now and go ask me@askmh.com we have come to that time. It is time for Steve's sleeve.

And you know, I'm curious because the note, the prevailing note from our last rendition of the Steve sleeves, Title Music, we'll call it Title Music, was that it was a Little low beat. I'm actually, I'm curious from folks watching, do they think that we'll recompose? I mean, we have the talent and I'm not bitter about this at all. But this isn't coming from like a spiteful place. This is purely for the knowledge and for the comfort of the viewers.

Market research.

We'll play it again. Or play it again and you tell us. Let's let the people vote. Do you want a more upbeat, sassy version of the Steve Sleeves theme song?

Sassy.

Or, you know, do you want something a bit cheekier?

Yeah.

Or do you sassy?

You like sassy? Okay, well, you know what it means.

I don't know, like how that manifests something.

Just. Do you want something a little. With a little bit more of a upper upbeat kind of feel or do you like the soothing tones of the current Steve Sleeves song?

And I appreciate that you've kind of added a leading question in that that might signal what your desire is.

No, but.

No, but I'm actually very much 50. I wouldn't have even thought this. I'm just. It got brought up and I'm just giving people a fair chance to vote. So let us know. Email podcasty.com and tell us. Stick with the sleeves or a new pair of garments. Exactly.

Or the same pair of garments. Just dressed up.

Just dressed up. Styled a little better with a bit sass. Yeah, let us know.

I know I quite like a bossa nova sort of vibe we had, but.

Well, let's see again, email a subject line, same sleeves. If you want to. If you want to keep it.

If you want sassy sleeves. Okay. You want to change it?

I love it.

Okay. And with that, with that. This is Steve's sleeves. Don't be bereaved.

You know that we can leave without another episode of Steve Sleep.

All right, so go on then. What is it today?

Okay, well, this isn't as wacky as the last one. Actually, it's more somber. It's not somber either. It's about you two and your anxieties. Oh. So we are actually gonna do. And it can't be about having a child. So I want you to look at one of your historic anxieties and we're gonna do the three part reality check with you. I want to hear your trigger, your story and some facts, slash challenging it with evidence.

This is an ambush. This Steve Steve Steves is an ambush.

It always is.

Three column reality check.

It always is.

Story facts.

I'll track along with you guys.

And so the facts can just be raw facts about what's true or you can challenge with past evidence.

So is this like an anxiety we've had in the past or one we have now?

What it can be in the past, one you've faced a lot in your life, one that you've learned how to deal with. And I want to know, like, what sets it off and what's the story you tell yourself when that anxiety happens? That makes it worse.

Yeah. And your answer can't be Steve Sleeves itself.

That gives me anxiety sometimes.

Yeah, it gives me anxiety too.

I. Okay. A common trigger in my life has been having said something that will come off the wrong way, like.

Oh, yeah, I know this about you.

Like, I wish I hadn't said it that way. You know, if it. In a one on one situation there's like two versions of it. Right. In a one on one situation, it would be how vulnerable shall I get?

As vulnerable as you want.

That's not an answer. Yeah, it is vulnerable. Do you want me to.

It's the rules. Leaves it's all truth here.

Yeah.

Well, okay, so look, one would be in a personal situation having said to like something to a friend or someone.

I know, like a personal criticism of them or something very direct that's you feel has.

No, no, like it could be something I, I've said in a message to them or whatever that I think has like come off the wrong way, being misconstrued. Yeah. And then maybe I don't get a text back for a few hours and I think, oh no, I'm right, it did come across badly or it did, you know, I shouldn't have said it that way or whatever. And, and now I'm sort of, if I'm not careful, I get in my head and spin out.

And what's the story you tell yourself?

Probably I think the deep, the surface level story is that they're mad at me or that they are, you know, what's. Either that they're mad at me or that they're turned off in some way.

And, and is there a fear that.

I've come across maybe a bit desperate, you know.

Right.

Something like that. And a bit try, you know, like a bit needy or a bit something I've, I, you know, I've not come across very confident. And I think the deeper story, the, the story, the surface level kind of thing is like, oh, they're mad at me or they've come across badly or whatever. I think the even deeper story is I've been found out, you know, like I'VE been discovered. I'm not as confident or I'm not as nice or I'm not as right, you know, lovable, or I'm not, you know, whatever it may be. If there's, like, I've been. Oh, no. Like, they've seen me for who I really am, you know, and that obviously comes from a deep sense of being a deep fear. I've worked on this, by the way. I've gotten much better.

You have got much better.

Got much better.

Do you have some fear? You're not a good person? Do you have some fear you're like, actually a needy person?

Is that I've definitely had the fear. Fear a lot in my life. That I'm not a good person.

Right.

Like, I. That's been like a.

Which is crazy. Like, I don't want anyone listening to think that you're saying that because you've somehow, like.

Because I'm an evil genius.

You're like an evil person who does bad things.

I don't think that person worries about that.

Best person I know. And so it's crazy.

Oh, it's true.

Thank you.

That's coming from the fuzzy duck. Audrey's wearing a top that makes it look like a fuzzy duck.

Audio listeners, even even though you do the. The ear airpod thing, to me, you're a very good person.

Thank you, David.

Yeah.

So what do you do? What are some facts?

I don't do the airport.

What are some. What are some facts or challenging with evidence you can do in that moment to help you?

I. I remind myself of the. I remind myself of all the moments that I am extremely high. I mean, I'm extremely high in conscientiousness in general, which is why I worry. Like, it's one of the reasons that I worry so much.

You worry about people's feelings and reactions a lot.

A lot. A lot. And I don't think a bad person spends this much time worrying about people's feelings. I. The idea that I've hurt someone is, like, the worst. You know, that's terrible to me. I remind myself of all of the ways I've shown up for people in my life. I remind myself of a story that. There was a story that really encapsulated this for me, actually. When I was at school, I. There was a kid in my class. This was like, priest. This was like, not even teenage school. We would have been. What year was like, prep school? Was that like seven? Eleven. Age Seven. I think I was like, yeah, I was seven. That's right. Because it was in the first year, so I was seven years old. And there was a. A guy that I was friends with over time. But I found. Basically I found out that he had been, like, taking my. My, like, food every day with like, he.

Like, he'd be Steven.

It wasn't. It wasn't Stephen.

He found it out pretty quick.

I had, like, my snacks for the day and stuff, but every day they would just disappear from my bag. And then I found out that he had been doing that and I was. And I told on him. And I. And I never stopped feeling. But because I also felt a bit of glee in telling on him. I remember that feeling. And then I felt so much shame for years, not only at having told on him, but having felt a sense of, like, glee about it. Like almost making fun of it like that I was gonna get him in trouble. And that's really, like, stuck with me. And as terrible human being. But as an at. But as an adult, I bumped into him and he. We said hi in that. And he said. I was like. He. He said to me, I always remember you at school because when I started you, I was on my own in the lunch hall. And I would sit on my own every day. And you saw me sitting on my own. And you came over to me and said, no one should have to sit on their own. He. He said to me, like, you don't have to sit with me. It's okay. And I said, no one should have to sit alone during lunch. And the funny thing is I have no recollection of that whatsoever. I don't remember it happening. I don't remember saying it, but he remembers. Like, that was what he. In my head, I'm like, he would never have forgotten the fact that I got him in trouble.

Maybe he doesn't know you. Perhaps he's probably nervous.

He's probably nervous because he had all your snacks in his room bag.

So.

So. So.

So for the fact I wrote with me. For the fact I wrote, I felt bad for ratting on my friend when he stole my snacks. I then sat with him when he was alone during lunch. Cool guy move, right? I think I spelled during wrong too. Is it two hours?

No one are.

So I guess what I'm saying is that was like epitomized that what I do to myself in general, which is remember, like, take stock of all of the things I've done that I feel a lot of shame over and, you know, not connect to moments where I've shown up and disprove that idea. That I'm not a good person. But I say this having done an immense amount of work in this area. Audrey will tell you, this has been like a journey for me. But that's definitely like Trigger is said something that came off the wrong way. Story is, you know, they're mad at me or I've been discovered now they know. Or, you know, in a version of that could be I'm a bad person and they've seen it. And then the. The facts is I spend time connecting with all of the evidence that that is just. Just simply not the story, which I found immensely helpful. So it's very validating for your. What do you call this?

This is the three column reality check.

Right. It's very validating for the three.

Just to give yourself new evidence and reference points.

Yeah.

Audrey, do you have one?

Do I have one?

I feel intensely vulnerable. Having done that, by the way. I feel very naked right now.

I hope you don't. I was. Now I feel anxiety for coming off the wrong way by saying ratting. I was trying to be playful. And now that you're vulnerable, you've stoked that. I feel bad.

It's very triggering, that phrase.

David, I'm going to turn it to.

Yeah, the way you phrased it in the facts. I felt bad for writing on my Twitter.

I. I wanted a reaction.

Friends is in caps.

I don't think I went too far enough. And so now it's in this spot of I. I feel like an asshole. So I'm redacting that. I'm gonna redact it.

I think people will like this a lot. I thought that was really, really lovely.

Yeah, I agree. It was honest.

I know Audrey's got one.

What would be a. So can you go up to trigger story Facts? Okay. Oh, okay. Yeah, I think I. If I'm being, like, honest. You were honest, so I'm gonna be honest, too. As in, like, not that I wasn't going to be honest, but I'm gonna be, like, vulnerable. I think I have a trigger. A trigger might be like, you know, we're really busy with work and this actually happened recently. I didn't get back to a friend, and I assumed we'd locked in plans because to me, we'd locked in plans and I was just like, kind of firing off messages and, you know. But then in the meantime, that friend had sent me a voice note to basically ask about the plans and, you know, lock something in. I didn't listen to the voice note because I was busy. Comes the day I text her Going, you know, let's what do you want to do tonight? Blah, blah. And she sort of was like, well, I didn't think it was happening because you never got back to me. And then there was this sort of, like, moment where I felt like she was mad at me and that I had kind of, like, somehow been, like, just selfish and inconsiderate and whatever. So a trigger like, that would then make me feel like, almost like this person's not going to want to be my friend or I'm going to be left. And I'm only using that as an example because it's like, the most recent one that happened. This happened yesterday. And the trigger will always be like, something like that. Or it might be you and I have an argument or something and you are a bit mad at me. And I go, oh, my God, this argument means that he's going to leave me and never speak to me again. It's like, very, like, dramatic. Jumping to very dramatic conclusions over very little things. So the story will be like, they're gonna leave. They're gonna leave me. They're not gonna want to be my friend or they're not gonna like me anymore or they're gonna leave me or, like, whatever. And the. What was the last.

The fact.

The fact that. Well, what I tell myself is, like, the real people in my life who love me won't leave me because of miscommunications or small fights or, you know, me getting something a little bit wrong, even if I do make a mistake. And I also tell myself, like, I always take every bit of accountability for everything. Sometimes when even it's not fully my fault because I. All my instinct is to be like. Like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. I completely messed up. And I'm like, well, hang on a minute. I didn't really mess up. It was a bit of a miscommunication in the example of my friend.

Yeah, the fear makes you over. Over. Do the apology or take too much accountability or. Yeah, you then go too extreme with it.

I relate too far the other way.

Yeah.

And so then that's also a bit of a kind of, like, thing that I tell myself, which is like, don't do that thing where then you go too far the other way. And then you're like, you know, two days later, you're like, wait a minute, I didn't really do anything wrong here. And I've just ended up kind of like, just from that response of, like, that fear. Tried to.

Yeah.

Tried to kind of, like, make it better. But, yeah, being left, anxiety about being left and people I love, like, not being in my life anymore.

Do you. Do you also not have evidence? Like, you have. Have loads of friends.

Way more than me and Steve?

Yeah, you have more friends than most of us who you spend a lot of time with.

But, yeah, but then I just. I. I think I just. I always feel like my friends. Like, that's the thing. It's really interesting. Right. I think there's, like, a thing, an anxiety in my friendships. Not all of my friendships, but in some of my friendships that, like, maybe someone won't like me or, like, I'll do something that will make them no longer want to be my friend. So I don't really, like, get a lot of comfort from that because I. I don't feel, like, necessarily.

Does that sound weird that you think, like, there's the fear and you says they're precarious?

Yeah, like, most things are precarious. Took me a very long time to not feel like things were precarious in our relationship. I do. And now I feel very much like we fight. And I'm a bit like, whatever, it's fine. Like, it's. I don't need it to be resolved right now, like, right away.

I.

We resolve it so quickly anyway, as well, which is kind of like something we've learned to do. But, like, I just don't. I don't feel like that. That anxiety that I used to feel, but it took me years.

I also think that the I, over time, I've developed an association that the friendships that really matter are the ones that can weather storms. And you can. You can. Someone can be upset with you, and you can have that conversation, and you can have done wrong, or you can have, like, ignored them, but you have that conversation and you come out the other side of it. And that's kind of the. You know, the robustness of the relationship speaks to the depth of the relationship, and those are the relationships that. That remain.

And, you know, I want to just add one last thing to that, which is, you know, in the context of everything we've been talking about in this massively long episode today, you know, when we're anxious in early dating, when we're in early stages of a relationship, what we're afraid of is, like, I'm gonna make a wrong move, and then everything's gonna go away. And it really does kind of. It speaks quite a lot to what our anxieties are here, really, which is like, you know, everything is very precarious, but, you know, the right people in your life, to your point, they won't expect you to score a perfect score all the time. And actually forming an authentic connection isn't about being perfect. It's about being yourself and that particular version of you being the kind of person that somebody else is looking for. And that works and fits with them. It's not, you know, people who are actually being intentional about looking for love, they're not looking for a perfect person. They're just looking for a match for them. What about you, Stephen? Can we do you.

We haven't got time.

We're out of time, everyone. So I also want to call out.

That we said it before, but this was part of your course in the Love Life Club. And this was a really one of my favorite portions of the course. And I thought it was a really cool, very simple way to reframe anxiety. It kind of lays it out in a way that even just looking at it makes it a little less scary.

I'm excited to see this course. I know you just shot it. So for anyone who does want to see it, it's going to be included inside the Love Life coaching program for all of our members. So members, be on the lookout for Stephen's new course on anxiety in dating.

And as always, thanks for playing Steve Sleeves.

I'm sure I wanted to play this Steve Sleeves.

I feel like I've been starting to.

Think I prefer preferred stock Talk Flirtation Edition.

A lot of people do. A lot of people do.

Thank you so much for listening everybody. And don't forget if you are struggling with the things that we have talked about in this episode, whether it's anxiety or being down on yourself or self doubt or whatever your particular goto emotional emotion is and when you get there, you don't know how to get out of it. The session that I'm sharing with you on Emotional buttons is one of the great master keys to overcoming that. The tool that I give you in this session is something that I use every single day of my life. I cannot stress that enough and it has helped so many people that I've taught it to. You can get it by going to inside the retreat.com which is where I'm sharing this session. So make sure to go and get it now while it's there. InsideTheRetreat.com is the link. Thank you and we'll see you next time.