The #1 Tool to Reduce Anxiety in Your Relationships w/ Mel Robbins

What'S up, guys? Happy 2025. I'm excited to do this year with you. We're just getting started. I have an amazing podcast for you today. Huge guest that I know you're going to be really excited about. Before we get into it, I have a huge announcement. I am so excited to announce the Matthew Hussey For the very first time, weekend retreat that is coming up October 18th and 19th of 2025 in Miami, Florida. This is gonna be a brand new immersive coaching event that distills the most impactful tools of my renowned retreat that was six days long, and I've been doing for 15 years more than 15 years of my life. This is me distilling the absolute best parts of that six-day event into a two-day action-packed weekend of breakthroughs. So I am so excited that so many more people are going to be able to come because it's two days and logistically it's a lot easier to get to and because the price is going to be something many more people will be able to afford to come and experience the best of what we do. So if you have always wanted to experience the transformation that goes on on the retreat, but have never been able to do it, this is your chance. Visit mHretreat.com for an exclusive early bird discount. Join us if you've been wanting to do something like this with me for a long time. I'm so excited about this for the first time. to be doing this over a weekend is just a really big landmark moment for me and this organization. So check it out, mHretreat.com and now to announce today's guest, we have none other than Mel Robbins on the podcast. She is a New York Times bestselling author and one of the most respected experts in the world on motivation, confidence and mindset. Billions have watched her videos. She is the host of the Mel Robbins podcast, the number one education podcast in the world. we talk about her brand new book, the Let Them Theory. It'll invite you to think about how much energy and time you might have been wasting trying to control the wrong things at work, in relationships, and in pursuing your goals, and how this is keeping you from the happiness you deserve. So I present to you Mel Robbins. Mel Robbins. It is so exciting to have you here.

Thank you for inviting me to be here with you. Thank you for inviting me into your home.

Hussie house.

Hussie house. Yeah. Well, I gotta say something. Hussie house. You sound like something illegal.

That's why I like it. I like that it makes people slightly uncomfortable. Yes, well that's good. Yeah. That's good. Americans sometimes get a little, they sometimes think that they're saying it wrong when they say hussie. They're like, is it hussie? I'm like, no, no, no, it's hussie.

Yeah. That's awesome.

You have written a really wonderful new book. I want to just start by saying that. It's called Let Them for anyone out there who wants to know. I read this book and you have a real gift for taking an idea that has spoken to you, whether it's the five-second rule or whether it's, you know, let them, or you take an idea and you really run with it. But I think part of your gift is knowing that something really has legs and feeling that. And this book, it has legs. Every chapter, it didn't feel like a repetition. of the idea, it felt like, oh, we're applying this idea in a beautiful way to another really important aspect of our lives. So I felt like it would be a great place to start just to kind of, if we could just frame up what you mean by let them, and then I have so many directions I wanna go with you.

Well, so the let them theory is ultimately just a mindset tool that is going to teach you in an instant, what's in your control and what's not in your control. And any psychologist will tell you, Matthew, and you know this, that the second that you spend any time and energy worrying about or trying to manage something you can't control, it only creates stress for you. And the let them theory is very simple. If you're ever in a situation where someone else is pissing you off or upsetting you or breaking your heart or stressing you out, you just say, let them. And what you're going to notice is you immediately feel a sense of peace and power because when you say let them, you are, you're actually deploying a bunch of things, stoicism, detachments, theory, radical acceptance in a moment to let go of something you can't control. And the number one thing that we cannot control in life is what another human being thinks, says, or does. And so when you say let them, you recognize that's not in my control and I'm not gonna allow it to stress me out. I'm not gonna allow it to waste my time and energy. And then the second part is you say, let me. And let me is a really powerful cue where you remind yourself that no matter what's going on, no matter how somebody is treating you, no matter what's happening around you, you actually still have power because you can respond. And when you say, let me, you remind yourself, I can choose what I'm gonna think, say, or do in response to this other person or in response to this situation. And so ultimately the let them theory is truly about control. You know, I guess the big breakthrough for me is I didn't realize how much time and energy I was wasting in my life. I didn't realize how often I let other people's drama and bullshit stressed me out. I didn't realize, and this may surprise you, I mean, we know each other very well. We've been friends for a number of years and we talk a lot about business and life and relationships. And I didn't realize how much I was still navigating my decision making based on other people's moods or their expectations. And the message that I have as you are spending time together with Matthew and I today is very simple. If you're frustrated, or if you're just not as happy as you'd like to be, or if you're not feeling like you're getting the respect or the love that you deserve in your life, the problem isn't you. The problem is the power you're giving to other people's opinions and moods and expectations. And you don't have to live like that. And the Let Them Theory taught me that focusing on what's in your control, which is what you say and do in response, Changes your entire life.

So many people, their instinct will be, okay, I'm gonna hear that and it almost makes me go, I'm gonna do something different by taking charge of a situation or I'm gonna withdraw some effort that I'm putting into somebody else or places that I'm saying yes where I shouldn't be saying yes. Once we take some form of action, or withdraw some kind of energy from a situation, we then have not only their situation, their energy to contend with. We have our own. Because for many of us, we have a nervous system response to, if I've said yes my whole life in situations where I don't want to say yes, and now I say no, even if they don't put up a fuss, I still go away, let's say, feeling incredibly guilt-ridden and feeling afraid.

When's the last time you said no to something and then it left you with a hangover in your body? Like you questioned it, or a situation from somebody that listens to you that writes in and says, I'm having a lot of trouble saying no because I feel guilty. Give me a situation and I'll show you how to do that.

Let's say someone says, My parents always expect me to, let's say, spend the holidays with them.

Terrific.

And this year I am having second thoughts because I want to spend them somewhere else or with a partner or with their family. And saying no or saying I'm not going to this year is gonna, I'm gonna be racked with guilt.

Yes. Okay. Fabulous example. because we can all relate to it. And here's a couple things that I want everybody that's listening to understand. Number one, it is fantastic that the people in your life want to be with you. It is fantastic that your parents are disappointed if you're not coming home for the holidays. I mean, imagine the opposite. That you say, I'm not coming. They're like, thank God we can't stand that person anyway. And so the fact that somebody's disappointed because you're not going to show up somewhere is a good thing. And we've made it a bad thing. And that brings me to the second point. It's not your job to manage another adult's emotions. And the Let Them Theory taught me something that changed my relationship with my parents, it changed my relationships with my kids, it changed my relationships with my husband, Chris. And what it taught me is this: two things can be true at the same time. Your parents can be deeply disappointed by the fact that you're not coming home for the holidays, and you can still make a decision to do what's right for you. Two things can be true at the same time. Your parents can be deeply disappointed that you're not coming, and they can still love you and understand. Two things can be true. Let them be disappointed. They are grown ass adults and it's not your job to make sure they're happy. Your job in life is to make sure you're happy. And this is what the Let Them Theory taught me. When I say let them be disappointed, let them. I am honoring my parents' experience and I'm creating space for them to feel very normal, appropriate, and positive emotions to the fact that I'm not coming home. Then I go to the second part, let me. Let me decide what decisions I'm going to make based on what I value and what my priorities are. Now here's where this gets interesting because you raised the topic of guilt. Most of us operate out of guilt. We feel guilty, so we say yes. We feel guilty, so we go home. We feel guilty, so we don't take the big job. We feel guilty, so we go on the third or fourth date, even though we know we're not interested. When you do things out of guilt, you actually turn the other person into the villain and you give them power. Do not live your life like that. What you're gonna do instead is you're gonna say, let them be disappointed, let them try to guilt trip me, but let me operate based on my values. 'Cause here's the thing, there's a very big difference, Matthew, between me choosing to go home, right, and spend time with my parents because I feel guilty if I don't and because I want them to think I'm a good daughter, versus choosing to go home because it makes me feel like a good daughter. And when you operate out of guilt, you're giving somebody else's emotions power over you. When you operate from a place of acting in a way where you know what you value, you know what's gonna make you proud of yourself, now you're living your life and you're taking responsibility for doing it in a way that makes you proud. And so I think about, well, what makes me feel like a good daughter? Because family is a deep value of mine. And my parents would like to see me a lot more than they do. And so I have this experience in my life. I'm not spending the holidays with my parents. So I've gotta let them be disappointed. And then I say, let me remind myself, I am a good daughter. Let me remind myself that disappointment is also part of loving somebody, 'cause you're just sad you don't see 'em. let me remind myself that it's okay for somebody else to be upset and they can still love me and support me, even if they don't understand. Because you do that for other people. There are people that disappoint you and you still love them. And so give yourself the same grace. And so it's created this space where when you let someone else be and you let someone else feel, you're actually honoring and loving them in a way you probably never have.

Yeah, I think that's beautiful and it took me a long time to even start to learn that if I, that for A, it's okay for people to be disappointed.

Let them.

Right. I don't have to manage that. I don't have to take responsibility on for that. And to learn that, those things did pass. That there wasn't, it wasn't now that I was in some never-ending spiral of bad, you know, this relationship's now going away. It was that actually that weather passed and on the other side of it was another great moment together.

Yeah. See, I think the big thing that I've noticed now that I'm using the Let Them Theory in my life is that I lived a lot of my life feeling disappointed. Because I was constantly navigating decisions based on trying to make other people happy or trying to meet other people's expectations or because I didn't wanna have to deal with somebody's emotional outburst. So I just said, okay, and then I'm left feeling disappointed 'cause I know I'm not actually acting in a way that's aligned with what I value. And I think we do, so we are programmed in life to put other people first. Every one of us does. Like I was talking with my husband, Chris, and he's like, this isn't just a female thing, Mel. Like he leads men's retreats, as you know. And it was astonishing to me, Matthew, to hear that guys feel like they put everybody else first because they've got to provide for everybody. And to me, I'm like, no, no, no, women do. And so I feel like we've all fallen into this bad habit of thinking about somebody else's opinion or judgment or their emotional reaction before we think about what actually works for us.

I want to come back to that because you talk in the book about the idea of people being essentially grown-up kids.

Yes.

Right, eight-year-olds who have not learned how to manage their emotions. And that does breed compassion for people. What do you do when you feel like, The person I'm dealing with doesn't fit the description that was just mentioned of people do tend to put others first. I'm dealing with a sister, a mother, a friend who seems always to put themselves first. They don't seem to have that problem.

Yeah, so you're not a priority is what you're saying.

You're not a priority from their point of view, whether it's the extreme end of a personality disorder, and they exhibit narcissistic qualities, or whether they're just someone who seems always to put themselves first because of something slightly, let's say, we can be a bit more generous to. How do you deal with someone who, you know, your instinct is to put others first, but someone else never does?

Let them. Let them be who they are. Can you, one of the biggest principles in this book is that it is impossible to actually change another human being. Human beings only change when they feel like it. And when you really wrap your head around the fact that other people only change if they want to, and people's behavior is the truth. So if somebody's treating you in a way where it's very clear that you're not a priority, let them treat you that way. Now, Let me explain what this doesn't mean. This doesn't mean you're a doormat that lets people stomp all over you. This means you're waking the hell up and recognizing that this is who this person is. And maybe it's because there's a lot going on in their work life. Maybe they've got a kid who's struggling. Maybe they're grieving something. Like you never know what's going on with somebody. Or maybe they have a narcissistic personality style and they're never gonna change and they're constantly making it about them. Let them. Why on earth would you waste an ounce of your time and energy trying to change something you can't change? Let people reveal who they are because their behavior shows you whether or not you are a priority. And then it comes back to you. And this is where you take responsibility for your life, right? And let's look at the word responsibility. Responsibility means the ability to respond. Even when you're dealing with somebody who's narcissistic, Every leading expert who has been on your show, every leading expert that I have talked to says the same thing about narcissistic personalities. Hoping they will change is the kiss of death and it keeps you trapped in the dynamic. The second you say, this is who this person is, I'm gonna let them be who they are, I'm gonna walk in with eyes wide knowing, I'm not gonna make excuses for their behavior, I'm not gonna wish it were different, I'm going to say let them, and then I'm gonna say the second part, which is the more important part, Let me choose how I respond to this. Let me choose how much time I give this person. Let me choose to stop explaining away the gaslighting. Let me choose to not show up at their thing because I wanna protect my energy. And this is the heart of the let them theory. There is so much in your control and what's never gonna be in your control is changing someone else. And in fact, the research is very clear on this. When you try to make someone else change, It actually creates more resistance to them changing. Now you can influence somebody through your behavior for sure. And, you know, I go deep into it in the book, but the most important thing, and this is revelatory because I have people in my life and in my family who have narcissistic personality styles. I have spent decades wishing they would change. I have gone into family gatherings being like, okay, I hope this is gonna be different. And then I'm bracing. And then the second that they, you know, pull what they pull, Or it's all about them, or they act like a victim. Now I'm triggered and my emotions and now I'm acting immature. No, I just let them be. Why, don't give power to something that you can't control.

And the hard part is that it goes hand in hand with radical acceptance, right?

I don't think it's hard at all. Why do you think it's hard?

Because it forces us to grieve the relationship we thought we had. or the relationship that we were acting on. We may have been acting on the basis that this relationship was reciprocal or that someone would show up for us in the way that we would show up for them. And it's a exquisite kind of heartbreak for most people to realize that's not the relationship I have with this person at all.

That's true. That's true. And there is something beautiful that happens when you see somebody for who they are and you truly accept them as they are and then choose the kind of relationship that you wanna have with them. And here's what's beautiful. You create space for something different to happen. See, I have a better relationship with the narcissistic people in my life because I've created space for them to be who they are. And I want you to think about relationships like a spider web, okay? So especially in a family or a romantic situation, we're all interconnected. And you talked about this earlier about how emotional responses are automatic and there are just certain people in your life that are triggering and annoying as hell. In fact, I think that's why we have families to teach you how to love somebody you hate at times, right? But if you think about every relationship is like interlocking web and if you're out in the morning walking, and the do is on the web, right? It kind of highlights this connection. You have the ability to tap, tap, tap on that web. And when you do that, the do shakes off. See, what's happening right now is we give too much power to people who are immature or are toxic or are controlling, and they're shaking the web and impacting all of us. What if the opposite is true? What if you have so much power that if you don't get sucked into the dynamic and you just let it, you let people be who they are and you accept them as they are and you choose the kind of relationship you wanna have and you choose how much time and energy you spend, what if that positive and more compassionate and accepting approach, tap, tap, tap on that web shakes out something completely different? And what I've found in my life, is it has. Like I had somebody in my life turn to me who's very, very narcissistic because of childhood issues, which is how it gets created in people, is usually through neglect emotionally, who turned to me recently and was like, you know, you've really changed. And I'm thinking, you,'re right, I have, because I'm very peaceful. I'm very in control of where I put my time and energy. And from that separation, of not having to manage somebody else and not wanting other people to be different, I am able to see people and learn how to love them as they are. And that's a beautiful thing. And yes, you're right. If your mom or your dad weren't the parents you deserved, but you now can look at them through a new lens and just let them be who they are. Because people can only give you what they have to give. And there's a really interesting expert that I talked to recently that you should have on your show. His name is Dr. Abbon. And he's a child psychologist who's been at Mass General Brigham for 30 years. And he said this statement that I will never forget. He said, people do well when they can. And if somebody is not doing well by you, it means they're not able to. They're either lacking some kind of skill or they're lacking some kind of experience or they're lacking the capacity. to do well. And when I heard him say that, it was such a beautiful thing because I think we go through life looking at other people as the source of love and power and validation and peace in our lives. And the truth is, you're that source for yourself. And when somebody doesn't treat us well, we immediately think they're evil or that we're somehow like a loser? What if you could look at people and just say, let them, let them be who they are. And if they don't treat you with the level of respect or they don't treat you with the level of compassion, let them, but then say, let me choose how I'm gonna look at this. Because I choose to see other people through a very different lens now. I choose to see that when people aren't well, it's because they can't be well right now. When people don't treat me well, it's because they're not able to for whatever reason. I don't make it personal. But then I take the power back and I decide how to show up. When you spend all this time, like, you know, you talk a lot about love and your research and your work and the impact that you make is extraordinary around getting people to wake the hell up and realize when you're chasing something versus when you're standing in your power and you're clear about what you want and you're choosing and creating it. We have to do that in every relationship because most of us are in a fantasy in our heads, Matthew, whether it's our spouse or our sister or our parents or our boss about who we wish people would be versus being in the reality of what the relationship is and what this person is capable of right now in their life based on their past experience. And I'll speak personally, I'm 56 years old. I have been emotionally immature for most of my life. And I have done so much therapy and I've done talk therapy, I've done more of the kind of body neck down therapy, which has been life changing. And still, when I get annoyed or pissed off or frustrated, I act like an eight-year-old. And I'm very clear It's nobody's responsibility but mine to calm myself down. It's nobody's responsibility but mine to make me happy. And yet I spent 54 years of my life before the Let Them Theory operating as if it's my job to make sure everybody's in a good mood, everybody's happy, nobody's pissed off or upset with me. You don't have to live like that. In fact, it is so freeing and your relationships get so much better when you just let people be who they are.

And in some cases, you point this out in the book, and I thought it was really important. You said a lot of people are finding in response to the let them theory that when they do start to manage their own energy in relationships and they're no longer constantly inviting people places or constantly texting or constantly being the one to support the relationship, and they actually let the relationship kind of fall to its natural level when they're only now investing what feels healthy to invest.

Right.

All of a sudden, they realize that this other person really does very little at all, and the relationship kind of stalls all together. And they have that realization that, oh, my God, I'm now that I'm actually managing my energy properly, I don't have the friendships I thought I had. I feel more lonely than I've felt in a long time. Could you speak to that?

Yes.

When the fallout of us standing back feels pretty catastrophic.

Well, I'm glad you're talking about this because here's the thing. Using the theory is super simple. Like you, as you're listening to this, especially if you're driving a car, somebody's gonna do something that pisses you off and stresses you out, whether it's traffic backing up, just say let them. and you'll immediately notice you detach and you kind of feel more powerful. If somebody doesn't text you back, you haven't heard from somebody in two days and you texted them and you're starting to get annoyed, let them. And what happens is you immediately detach and you feel superior. Now here's the warning that you're talking about. Everybody loves saying let them because it gives you a jolt of superiority. Oh, well let them not invite me. Let them ghost me. Let my mom be disappointed. Like you kind of are like, okay.

But- and it's a relief, right? It's a relief to suddenly feel like.

I don't have to manage everything. And by the way, this is the world's best boundary. Yes. Just let them do what they're gonna do. Don't spend or waste any time and energy managing something you can't control anyway. So you say let them. That feels great. This is why everybody, by the way, tattoos it all over their body. because people are annoying, people piss you off all day long. And so you're gonna be saying, let the let them part all day long because you're gonna realize I don't have to allow other people's behavior to actually drain my energy. And that's empowering. The problem comes when you start to say, let them, and you start seeing people for who they are, and you realize, oh my gosh, the second I stopped making plans with my friends, Nobody invites me anywhere. Or the second I stop calling my sister and I just let her not call back, I'm realizing I am the one making all the effort. And here's where this gets interesting. It's normal to notice this, and it's normal to feel a little lonely when you see that the people that you spend a lot of time with aren't operating in a way that makes you feel like a priority or they're not making an effort. You have to remember the second part, which is let me. So if your sister, for example, you're the one that's always reaching out and you just are frustrated because she doesn't reach back and you say, just let her. And a couple weeks go by and now you're really kind of bummed. Ask yourself, let me, let me ask myself, what kind of relationship do I want to have? And then here's the most important part. Whose responsibility is it to create what you want in life? Yours. If you don't have friends that invite you out, it's your responsibility to create a social life. If you don't have a sister that calls you back, it's your responsibility to talk to her about it and to tell, talk to her about the impact that has on you. and to ask for what you need. And then you gotta let them again. And when they don't ultimately make the effort, then it comes back to you and you say, well, what do I value? If you value family and if you value relationship connections, you're not gonna rely on other people to be the one to reach out. You're gonna realize this is a core value of mine and my life is my responsibility. And so instead of being upset with my sister, I'm gonna choose to be the one. Because sometimes in life, your gift is that you're the one that's proactive. Sometimes in life, the fact that you reach out all the time is the lifeline that somebody needs. Sometimes you're going through a period in your life where you have more capacity and the people in your life are drowning with a divorce or childcare or caring for somebody else or a massive issue at work and they don't have the capacity. People do well when they can. And so what I love about Let Them and Let Me is that I was the kind of person, Matthew, that was like tit for tat in a relationship. I put in an hour, you put in an hour. If I text you, you got to text me back. We should not be keeping score in relationships. The better way, in my opinion, is to let people be Let adults be adults and then really lock in on what you value and recognize that you can create anything. If you want a fabulous social life, stop sitting on your couch, I'm talking to myself here, and waiting for invites to come and start planning something. If you want to be close with your family, then make the effort to be close with your family. And you might be related to a ton of introverts that are socially awkward. Make the effort. and stop wishing they would change. Now, if you find you're in a situation, 'cause I think this is also what your question is about, where you're either in a relationship romantically or you're in a friendship where it's just, it's just bumming you out. You know, you're not getting the effort that you deserve. You're not getting the mutual, Respect. You have to ask yourself, okay, well, what is it that I want in my life? And if this person is revealing that they are gonna just give me some table scraps, I get to choose if I'm gonna sit at this table and eat this meal. I get to choose if I'm gonna put more energy into this relationship or not. And this is very important for romantic relationships with friendships, I would caution, you and the person listening and spending time with us together today, that I don't think that there's a need to really end friendships unless something dramatic happens and you wanna be emotionally mature and address it. But most friendships are very flexible when you become an adult. Let people come and go. Let people live their lives. Let people be in your life and then let them get busy with other things. And the more flexible that you are, understanding that when people do well when they can, people reciprocate when they want to and when they're able to. And if you don't have a tit for tat kind of tallying mentality, you're gonna find that you can just focus on putting in the effort where it matters and magical things happen.

I think sometimes the reason that we apply that tit for tat mentality and we become so resentful of certain people is that we're resentful. It's ultimately a commentary on our own lack of proactivity when it comes to almost diversifying our friendships away from the ones that maybe we've come to over rely on. You know, when there's one friend and they don't get back to us and it you know, there's nothing wrong with being disappointed that someone's not getting back to you. But if that's chronically what you're thinking about all the time, I do think, and you allude to this in the book, that our frustration or anger at them is masking for our own fear in going out there and making new friends.

Well, and here's the thing, Matthew, why does one person have so much power over you? Like, I'm serious, why does one person have so much power over your mood and emotional state. And I'm not saying that you should be in relationships with people that disrespect you and don't respond back. What I am saying though, is that if you find yourself chronically in relationships with people where you're pouring in and you're not getting anything in return, that's a bigger issue. That's a pattern of you chasing people that aren't available and who are not returning what you're putting in. And if that's you, that's a deeper level of work because you're gonna keep chasing people and living in your head. And, you know, I found, like, I see this a lot in your 20s. And, you know, when we were all younger, everybody chases the shiny people, I call them, you know, the people that look fancy and popular and all that stuff, and then you hit your 20s, and no longer is everybody in school together, everybody's now on different timelines, everybody's doing different things, and everybody scatters. And we don't upgrade our model for friendship. We think we're supposed to travel in groups. We think people owe us a reply back. We think if we're part of a group, we're supposed to be invited. That's not how adult friendship works. How adult friendship works is you gotta let people live their lives. You gotta take a more flexible approach because you go from traveling in groups to it being an individual sport, which means it's about your effort in. And for anybody that starts to feel lonely, and look, I moved to a new place when I was in my early 50s. After living outside of Boston for 26 years, Chris and I moved to the middle of nowhere in southern Vermont, and I was the loneliest I'd ever been. And it was literally as if I had gone back to that first week of college where it felt like everybody had friends, and I was the odd person out, and I was never gonna find my people. And the only way you find your people is by finding your people and you taking responsibility. Let me start talking to people. Let me go first. I mean, one of the things that I also think a lot about is there's a lot of bitching about online dating and how toxic everything is. Well, the truth is, if you wanna be in a relationship, Are you talking to the people that you're standing in line with? Are you striking up conversation with people? Or are you sitting back expecting somebody to pick you? And that's part of what happens when you start to embrace the let them theory, that you'll be shocked at how many areas of your life you're expecting other people to do the work. You're expecting other people to give you the things that you want in life. And that's why you feel tired and exhausted because you're expecting them to pick you. You're expecting them to behave a certain way. You're expecting them to create your social life. You're expecting your mom to suddenly be evolved and not be disappointed. What if you just flipped all this? And you expected it of yourself. And you operated in that way. And you let other people be who they are, which frees you of the burden of expecting anybody to do anything. And then you focus on what you demand of yourself. And what I find very interesting is that the second that you give other people the power, whether it's somebody that you're dating, Or it's apparent to respond a certain way, you lose all the power in your life because you're never gonna be able to control what the person that you're interested in is gonna do next. You can only control how you show up. And I realize that's a terrifying thing to understand, but by giving up control, you actually gain it 'cause you're trying to control the wrong thing.

It's really inspiring because it's, It's such a, it acknowledges this idea that you really are able to create your own reality. And the, I love what you said about, and I agree, it shouldn't be a recipe for kind of getting into a masochistic relationship where you're giving all the time, but there's something great about recognizing that if I'm the more sociable one, or if I'm the person who breathes life into people or brings a certain magic, recognizing that that is actually a special thing about me. Yeah, that's something I bring into the world. I found it really inspiring when you were talking in your book about living in a new place and starting from that very sort of scary place of, I don't know anybody and that feeling very you know, depressing, and then actually going, I can create the reality that I want. You know, it started with your daughters dragging you to someone's house who you'd liked and thought was cool, and being like, you, have to knock on the door and say hello to this person. And I love that. But I love what it spawned, that you then started, you literally detail in the book going into a coffee shop, Meeting the barista, writing their name in your phone, seeing people you'd been sitting across from for the last year, and finally saying, Hey, I don't know anyone. And then making a little note about, okay, so they're a couple with a baby, and there was this proactive approach.

Well, here's the thing. You either live in a fantasy in your head, I'm lonely, I have no friends, it sucks, why did I move here? And, or you actually get out of this echo chamber and you start taking the actions that align with what you value and what you want. And so take me, for example, I know what I'm supposed to do, Matthew. I know that I'm not gonna meet anybody sitting alone on a mountain in my house. I know I have to put myself out there, but I am basically an eight-year-old in a big body. and I'm emotionally immature and I want somebody else to fix this and I'm lonely and I'm pissed and why did we move here and this was dumb. I did that to myself for almost a year. And then I did a very simple thing. If I want a social life, I need to get my ass out of this house and I need to stop talking to myself and I need to do the little things that I know work. And so this is an idea I want everybody to steal. You literally go into your favorite coffee shop, you introduce yourself to the cashier, to the barista, you open up your Notes app on your phone, and you make, like literally the dude with the beanie and the beard, his name is Kevin. You know, Jen has the long brown curly hair, she makes great coffee. And here's why you wanna do this. You wanna do this because it's not on them to make you feel welcome. It's on you. to create this network of relationships so you feel welcome. So then tomorrow when you go in, you know what I would do? Like some loser, I would be sitting alone in my car. I hate living here. I'm gonna open up my notes app. Okay, Kevin is the guy with the beard and Jen's the one. And then I would walk in and Kevin would be there, oh, thank God. And I reminded myself, Hey, Kevin, how you doing? Oh, no, it's a new bar. It's a new person at the cash register.

Hi, what's your name?

Oh, hi, Lucy. It's nice to meet you. Okay, Lucy's got the long blonde hair. One name at a time. I met people, I learned their names, I would rehearse them in the car as I looked in my Notes app. And what was I doing? I was building this foundation that researchers call warm relationships that do what? It makes me feel like I'm actually part of a community. That's all that it takes. And then once you've warmed up to that, you're sort of opened arm, guess what happens? You turn and talk to the person next to you. Next thing you know, you're going, you are capable of so much more, but if you're sitting around like I used to and you're blaming other people or you're upset that somebody doesn't treat you the way or they're, I'm here to tell you, stop giving your power to the other person. Figure out what you want and then remind yourself, let me take the actions and let me think in a way and let me do what I need to do to create what I want because I'm capable of it.

Audrey and I, there's a guy in our coffee shop that we really like. He's a really lovely guy and we always make an effort to talk to him. And one day, and we learned his name and everything. One day I realized, oh, I know someone that could be really useful to this guy. So I'm gonna connect them. And I said to him, give me your number, send me your details so that I can send them on to him. And he sent me a message and he said, Hey, here's my email address. And it said, Landon. And I was like, his name's Mike. What do you mean, Landon? And I messaged him and I was like, is Landon, like your stage name, or is that like your actor name? Or he goes, no, no, no, it's Landon. For a whole year, we had been calling this guy Mike.

Oh, and he let them. Let them.

We go, I went, Dude, we've been calling you Mike all year. Like, are you positive your name's Landon? He said, I don't know where Mike came from for you guys, but it's always been Landon. And all of my worst fears came true, 'cause I have anxiety about using people's names anyway, 'cause I always feel like I'm using their name, but am I saying the right name? And I was like, every now and again, I'm like, no, just lean in. Lean in. It's just anxiety talking. You've got the name, right? Yes. We had been calling him the wrong.

Name for a year. But isn't that a beautiful thing? Because he didn't care.

No, it was funny. It became a funny thing. And I owned it, so that made it funnier. It wasn't like an awkward thing where I went, okay, and then just switched. I was like, we have been calling you the wrong name for a year and he laughed about it and we laughed about it. And it, you're right. It's one of those moments where you go, okay, so my worst fear happened. Right. Let them.

What I think is super embarrassing happened and it was fine. Well, and here's the other cool thing about the Let Them Theory. There is some area in your life where you are holding yourself back because you're afraid of what somebody else is gonna think or how they're gonna feel about what you're gonna do. Is there some place where you're holding yourself back? right now, Matthew, because you're worried about what someone else is going to think or you're worried about how they might judge.

I probably overthink what I post. I probably, you know, sometimes it's for privacy reasons. Other times I probably just overthink it. I get too perfectionist about it, and then I just don't post. And then I probably post half the time that I actually I actually would if I was thinking about it less.

I love this because it's so relatable and it is exactly what I'm talking about when I say you give other people power. So I wanna unpack this a little bit because we all struggle with this. And first of all, there are reasons to think about what you post. Privacy being one of them. The second is that you have a brand and a business being another. But if we just take this at the baseline human experience, because we've all had that experience where you open up your phone, you've got your photo or your little reel, you go, you're like, should I put a filter? Should I not? Is this photo, is it too much? And is it that, huh? When you're doing that, what's happening in your mind is you are now giving power to what you think people will think. Instead of expressing yourself, instead of putting up the photo that you like versus the one that thinks, You think makes you look skinny or makes your skin look better, makes this or that or the other thing or not too much because we don't want people to think that we're too much, not too salesy, even though we're trying to build an influencer brand. Can't, when you do that, you just gave your power away. You are literally through editing your own social media activity, trying to control what someone else will think. Stop doing that because you will never be able to control. The average person has about 70,000 random thoughts a day. You cannot control what is going to pop in someone else's mind. And yet, think about how much energy goes into managing what you're gonna post, is the caption, and then what do you do? You hit draft. Why? Because you've just exhausted yourself. Why? Because you think someone else's opinion is more important than you allowing yourself the freedom to express yourself however you want to. And there's a radical change that you need to make, which is let them have a negative opinion. And let me operate in a way that makes me proud. Let me express myself. Let me take the small risks and put myself out there because every time I don't, I gave power to somebody else's opinion, which I can't control, and I actually shut myself down. Anybody that has a business idea or you wanna feel freer in your life or you're an artist and you wanna create music or a YouTube channel or you wanna launch an affiliate marketing, If you're in that category, which most people are, editing yourself on social media as a way to try to manage what people think about you kills your dreams. It makes you insecure. You wanna know why you're struggling with imposter syndrome and self-doubt? It's because you're sitting there trying to manage what people think about you based on what you post. It's complete horseshit. And it's why you're not achieving your goals. How about you just live your life in a way where you allow yourself to be yourself. And then the interesting thing happens. The right people show up. You start to feel proud of yourself. You start to feel less stressed and less insecure because you're no longer giving power to them. You're taking it back and giving it to me.

Well, there was a moment in the book that I really, really loved where you were talking about comparison. and you. You said something in a way I've never quite heard it said before, which was that if someone else achieves something, that you start comparing yourself to, that there is an easy way to flip that from being something that you see as just negative, right? to being inspiration. And there was a specific way you wrote about this that I found really, really like I felt an instant switch in myself. So I know this is going to help a lot of people. Could you describe what you meant by it? Because, you know, whether it's you're seeing your friends get married and you're not pregnant, get pregnant, whether it's make the money. Exactly. So the house. Perfect.

Have the fancy vacation, launch the podcast. start the YouTube thing, become an influencer, whatever it may be that's triggering you. Here's what I'm going to tell you. Nobody can actually block you from achieving what you want. Only you do that. Other people do not block your way. They lead the way. The fact that somebody else is getting married does not actually rob you of your ability to get married. The fact that somebody else is having children does not block you from having the ability to have a family of your own. See, we are so screwed up when it comes to success, happiness, love, money, friendship. Those things are in limitless supply. Other people's success robs you of nothing, nothing. And we have this puny mindset that if somebody else does it first, somehow it diminishes your chances. No, no, no, no, no. You have the game of life wrong. Let them be successful, let them be happy, let them make a million dollars, let them get pregnant, let them have an incredible friend group, because they are showing you what's possible. They're leading the way. And through other people's example, you can figure out the formula that everybody follows because every business, every relationship, everything has a formula. Follow the formula. Let people lead the way. When you do not follow the formula, when you do not take the action, you block yourself. And it's so sad.

One of the things I really loved was in the example you gave in the book, it was a woman who had fancied herself an influencer in interior design.

Oh, yes, yes, yes.

And she had a friend who, or no, not a friend, a woman who she already didn't like in the neighborhood, who started doing exactly what she wanted to do and seeing a lot of success from it. And it burned her up.

That this-- Matthew, let me be honest with you. Like I have thought about doing a podcast for like five or six years. I see you doing one, I see our friend Jay Shetty, I see Lewis Howes doing one, and you know what I told myself? I literally told myself for years and years, I had missed the window. Somebody had already done it. There was nothing I could offer.

Isn't that so, when you see what you have done, it's crazy inspiring. But to hear that you felt that.

Oh, of course I felt that, because we all feel it. And here's the cool flip. Let them be successful. Let Matt build this amazing business and launch this podcast and have this incredible life that he's built and let me stalk his ass and figure out the formula and figure out how I can do it.

You know what my boxing coach once said to me and never, never forgot it. He said, I was talking about someone or other who was a pain for me in that way internally. And he said, let me tell you something. Muhammad Ali needed George Foreman in order to become Muhammad Ali. He didn't get to become Muhammad Ali without George Foreman. You need an amazing sparring partner.

And here's the thing. That's what jealousy is. When somebody burns you up, You need them. And the reason why is I, you know, the person listening right now has a goal or a dream they're stopping themselves from achieving right now because they're saying, Somebody's already done it. I could never do it. It's already taken. I would be a copycat. By the way, all of those, are you worrying about somebody else's opinion? So let them think you're a copycat. Let them roll their eyes and you focus on you. And when you start to feel annoyed that somebody else is successful, or you start to feel jealous of what somebody else has, you need it. Jealousy is important because it's galvanizing the desire that you need to get off your ass and do the work to create what you want.

And you said a line which was in the book when it was that Interior designer or the aspiring one who was looking at the person who was already doing it. And it was the person who aggravated her the most for it to be her. You said it needed to be her because as long as she was admiring established interior designers online, she could always make an excuse and say, well, they have things I don't. But once she saw someone who was her peer who already frustrated her.

Yes.

And that person was doing it. She had no excuses anymore. So I found that to be really empowering is that the person who's driving you the most crazy that it's them, it had to be them.

Yes.

Because otherwise you would have kept making the same excuses.

They prove it's possible. Like the thing that's interesting, and a lot of people can relate to this because there's probably somebody that you follow online that pisses you off. They have an influencer business or they've done something that you secretly dream of doing. and every time you see them post, you kind of have that like, thank them because they're awakening something inside you. They're getting through your complacency and your bullshit excuses, and they're tapping into your potential. They're showing you it's possible. And I know that this is true because you're pissed off about it. And your pissed offness means you somehow are judging them a little bit. Because you don't think they deserve it or you don't think this. Well, let them lead the way. You're the one who's blocking yourself from doing it. You're the one who's saying it's not possible. If you were to actually sit down with that person that you're jealous of or pissed off at, they would tell you exactly how they did and they'd be like, and you should do it. If I can do it, you can do it. And so that's the sad thing. But the cool thing about the let them theory is that, you know, in the game of life, You're not actually playing against other people. You're playing with them. And that's what we get wrong about relationships. You're not playing against other people. You're playing with them. And the mistake that we make is we think that it's about the other players. It's actually about you and how you play the hand you're holding. And you can learn how to be a better player. from other people because you're playing with them, not against them. And when you pull everybody in your life, whether it's your mom and dad who are disappointed, or it is a person who is not treating you with respect or not a friend who has gone distant, if you understand that you're not against them, you're playing the game of life with them. Let them be. Let them reveal who they are, let them reveal through their behavior what's important, and then look at the cards you're holding. Because the cards that you're holding are powerful, and the cards are, what am I gonna think? What am I gonna say? What am I gonna do in this moment in response to this? That's how you play the game of life and you actually win, because that is what you can control. And when you start to see other people, As people you can learn from, as just other players in the game of life, not people you're against, but people you can learn from. It changes everything.

Yeah. This conversation is gonna help so many people. I know the book will, too. I read it cover to cover myself.

That's a huge compliment.

Loved it. Absolutely loved it.

You wanna hear something cool? There's 73 mistakes in it. Let them. And that's important because too often in life, we're so busy managing what people are gonna think that we actually stop ourselves from putting ourselves out there. And the fact that there are a lot of little mistakes in this book, I think is a beautiful thing. And I truly appreciate the fact that you read it and I do not take lightly the reflection and the compliment that you're giving me in terms of how it turned out, because it is the single-- it's the thing that I've done in my life that I'm the most proud of.

I can see why. There's a depth to this book that is really uncommon. And there's a, your life experience truly shines through. I love, you know, the-- I'll let people read it, but the moment at the beginning that I think, was it Sawyer or was it Kendall who was telling you let them in the first place?

It was Kendall.

Kendall, about your son's prom. Read the book. There's a great story.

I mean, let's be clear, Matthew. Up until I discovered this, I was a jealous, insecure, emotionally immature, competitive human being. Seriously, like I feel like I can own up to a lot of toxic patterns. and immaturity in my life. And I think that's why I have so much compassion for what we're all going through, because we all are basically little eight-year-old kids inside of big adult bodies that have big feelings and really want people to like us. And what I've found to be very shocking is the less you try, the easier it gets. And the more control you give up, the more control over your life you gain. And the more you let people be who they are and you learn how to accept and love them as they.

Are.

The better your relationships get.

And you even create more space for them to be able to shift, if that's possible for them.

They actually do.

Yeah. It is so good. I'm really, I know this is gonna help people. As I was reading it, I was like, I can't wait for Audrey to read this. I know that it's gonna help her. I'm excited to get a copy for my mum. I know that it's gonna help her. And when a book makes you excited to buy it for people that you care about, you know you're onto something. So thank you for taking the time to write this. I know how much work goes into something like this. Thank you to you and to Sawyer, who's here with us today, for making this possible. Where can people find the book? Anywhere.

Just Google, Let Them Tell It.

You'll find it.

Okay, Let Them Tell It. Seriously, and everything that we've covered in this conversation covers a lot of it. And, you know, the thing that I will tell you is, I think this is the single most important thing you could give to somebody. Your sister doesn't need another sweater. She needs tools to make her life better. And we are all, we have a hardwired need to be in control of our lives. It's a survival instinct. But what the Let Them Theory taught me is for far too long, I had been controlling the wrong things and I had been creating stress for myself and friction in my relationships. And I didn't know why. And now I do because I was working against the fundamental design of human beings. and when you learn to let people be who they are and you stop trying to control the uncontrollable, you work with human nature and your whole life gets so much easier. And it's why I feel like a different person because I feel more in control and more powerful and at peace than I ever have because I don't spend time and energy on things I can't control anymore. And it's just been a beautiful thing. And I cannot wait for everybody on the planet to experience this feeling.

Well, it shows in you. And that's you, you, you talk about, you know, in the book, you talk about the best way to change other people or to influence changing other people is to model it yourself. And, and you are modeling it. So thank you. And thank you, everyone out there for watching. Grab a copy of let them or the let them theory. I am so, so excited for you to read this. I know it's going to have a profound impact on anyone's life who takes the time to read it. Thank you for being here.

Thank you.

I love you. I love you too. Thanks for watching, everybody. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Leave me a comment and let me know what you thought. And don't forget to check out mhretreat.com to get your early bird exclusive tickets to the weekend Matthew Hussey Retreat this October 18th and 19th, 2025 in Miami, Florida. I can't wait to see a ton of you there. This is going to be so much fun. And I love the fact that over the course of the year, as you watch these videos, many of you are going to know that you're going to be coming to see me live and in person in October. I'll see you in the next video. Thank you so much as as always, for watching.