This Psychology Model Will Transform Your Love Life

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Welcome to the Love Life podcast, everybody. We have a really, really interesting episode for you today. If you are struggling to make change in your life. If you're someone who really wants new results, maybe you really want to find love. Maybe you are struggling to get somewhere on dates. Maybe there's someone you really like and you're struggling to tell them your feelings or you're struggling to let of somebody. This episode may change the way you think about everything. There are some controversial claims made at the beginning of this episode. Listen up because it gets really interesting and it might be the key to you changing your life today. Well, we are back in the hot London studio, Toasty the Toaster. Expect us to get progressively shiny for the next hour. If you're watching this on YouTube, expect Audrey to get increasingly salty.

Why me?

I don't know.

It just felt like salty. Lestrat.

Steven's the one who's always very salty.

False.

Very false.

Stephen's not salty. He's just sarcastic.

True. What you got for us today, big guy?

Trauma doesn't exist.

I'm sorry, what?

Your life.

What did I pay that therapist for?

Your life is not the way it is because of what you've been through or any of your limitations, but because of the goals you've set for yourself. Okay, you dislike yourself because disliking yourself is something you hold as a prized virtue.

Where are you getting this from?

All Problems are problems of interpersonal relationships.

I think Matt has joined a sect.

These are all claims made by Adlerian psychology. And after we talked about Adler on the last episode and we were referencing the book the Courage to Be Disliked by Ichiro Kishimi and Fumitake Koga, people got very interested and they were like, tell me more about this Adlerian psychology. We had a few emails in, we were talking about it in relation to being disliked, which was the topic of the last episode. But we also wanted to do an episode where we delved a little deeper into some of the big claims made by Adler in his form of psychology. And for those of you that don't know, Adler was one of the kind of titans of psychology alongside Freud, alongside Jung. Adler is the one that is known the least and referenced the least of those three. What's interesting actually is that Adler, his version of psychology and his claims really form the basis of a lot of self development. You know, Carl Dale Carnegie and How to Win Friends and Influence People. Stephen covey in the 7 Habits. Adler was sort of the, the inspiration for a lot of the, the kind of rhetoric that came later in the self development world. And I want to talk about it because some of it is quite different from a lot of the rhetoric out there right now. So trauma doesn't exist. What are your thoughts on this, Audrey?

I am really curious to know where this is going because I, I just don't, I just don't agree.

Well, I'm thinking from a listener's perspective. If I think of attachment theory, that seems to be very popular and kind of is all based on either some kind of trauma or unhealthy relationship with a caregiver. It kind of suggests that it makes a permanent imprint on you. You had a distant parent and then you're reenacting that relationship. Throughout your relationships you had a smothering parent, whatever it is, and something makes you anxious. So it seems like a lot of the mainstream culture says, yes, your trauma influences your relationships a lot.

That would be the Freudian. The Freudian notion would be that our life is in some ways determined. Adler would see Freud's perspective as a more deterministic lens that you experience trauma and now your life is unfolding as a result of your trauma or in accordance with your trauma. Adler took a very different approach. His approach was that your life is where it is today because of the goals you have, not because of the trauma you have experienced. He didn't deny that you would have gone through extraordinarily painful or difficult things, but he refuted the claim that those things are responsible for the way that you are today. And I am not necessarily saying I agree with this. I want to bring it to the table as a discussion because I think that there is something to be gleaned from this way of thinking. And we can, over the course of the episode, we can talk about where I may disagree with this, but I. What I want to do is figure out where does Adler's psychology have genuine, kind of, in some ways, revolutionary merit for how we improve our lives or our relationships or go about finding love or go about changing our lives? Could, by the end of this episode, could someone go, this has radically changed my mind on what I'm gonna do next in my life.

How did you stumble across this?

Well, I'd heard of this book, the Courage to Be Disliked, which is essentially a book written as a conversation between a fictional philosopher and a young person who comes to that philosopher, asking this philosopher to make his claims and to defend them. And this philosopher turns out to be a avid follower of Adler's principles. And the whole book is about the debate that happens between this youth and this philosopher, with the philosopher defending the Adlerian principles and this idea that trauma doesn't exist, which is one that's made very early on in the book. The philosopher says trauma doesn't exist. And the youth is like, what are you talking about? People clearly go through terrible things and it affects them in their life. And he gives the example of a friend of his who has never leaves his room. And he never leaves his room because of things he went through with his parents growing up. Neglect, abuse, all sorts of difficult situations that now have robbed him of his confidence and his ability to go out into the world and function. And the Freudian perspective, which is. Is thought of as etiology, I. E. The study of, you know, cause and effect, that this trauma happened, and therefore this young man now won't leave his bedroom. The idea behind that is he won't leave his bedroom because of what happened to him. The Adlerian perspective is that of teleology, which is, he won't leave his room because he has a goal of not facing the world. His goal is to avoid social interaction.

Is that the goal, though, or the result? His goal might be to face the world, but he can't.

Adler would describe that. Adler would say his actual goal is to avoid the world. And he uses his trauma as the justification for not facing the world.

So what you're saying is, for instance, for people who have given up on dating because, you know, their story is that they've had too many bad experiences or maybe their confidence isn't where they'd like it to be, or maybe they don't feel attractive enough and they just think they don't have a good enough go of life to actually be successful in that area. What you're saying is that their decision to remove themselves from dating is, is actually their goal, not the effect of some, like all of the things that they're blaming. Is that what you're saying? Sorry, I'm trying, I'm just trying to make sure that I understand this.

There's a story in the book that I think will help illustrate this. He, the philosopher tells a story of a young woman who is practically in love with this guy or has a giant crush on this guy. And, and she, every time she gets near him, she blushes. And she said, she basically says, I would talk to him, but every time I get near him, I blush. If I could only stop blushing, I could finally talk to him. And the Adlerian perspective is that she, her goal is not to talk to the guy. Like her goal rather is to not talk to this guy. And the reason that's her goal is because if she talks to the guy and it turns out he's not interested, it will destroy her. So her actual goal is to not talk to him, to hold on to this possibility, to this fantasy of what could be, and to avoid all of the pain and the rejection of, of essentially confirming that he's not into her. And she uses blushing as her way to achieve that goal. So she says, I can't talk to him because I blush. But really her goal is to not talk to him. And blushing is how she achieves that goal. So as long as she blushes, she, she can, as long as she keeps blushing, she can achieve her goal of not talking to him.

But maybe her trauma means that she is so afraid of rejection because she has, you know, a lot of self worth issues. So then how do you marry that? Because, you know, that's almost, that's still caused by her trauma. And it's still, or her experience is not necessarily trauma, but it might be, it might be trauma. How do you kind of reconcile that?

It's not saying she hasn't gone through hard things, it's saying that those hard things are not what is determining her life now. What is determining her life today is her goals. What's the goal? Because she could have, if she genuinely had the goal of speaking to this guy, then she would go and speak to him regardless of whether she blushes. But that would bring up a whole bunch of consequences that she's not ready to face. So it her life is determined by her goals.

Well, this does have some, see some influence in CBT and things like that, right? Where people do help people through struggles by getting them to make like process based goals. Like don't get intimidated by that big piece of writing. Just make your goal is to write 50 words or your goal is to go and speak to three people at a party and say hello. There is some modern psychology that uses this practically quite a lot to help people.

There was a moment in the book that relates to what you just said. I'm actually gonna gonna read it. He says, I have a young friend who dreams of being a novelist, but he never seems to be able to complete his work. According to him, his job keeps him too busy and he can never find enough time to write novels. And that's why he can't complete work and enter it for writing awards. But is that the real reason? No, it's that he actually wants to leave the possibility of I can do it if I try open. By not committing to anything, he doesn't want to expose his work to criticism. And he certainly doesn't want to face the reality that he might produce an inferior piece of writing and face rejection. He wants to live inside that realm of possibilities where he can say that he could do it if he only had the time, or that he could write if he just had the proper environment and that he really does have the talent for it. In another five or ten years he will probably start using other excuses like I'm not young anymore or I've got a family to think about now. He should just enter his writing for an award and if he gets rejected, so be it. If he did, he might grow or discover that he should pursue something different. Either way he would be able to move on. That is why, that is what changing your current lifestyle is about. He won't get anywhere by not submitting anything. By the way lifestyle is used in a, in the kind of context of the kind of life you're living and the decisions you make and so on, as opposed to like material or anything like that.

Because some psychologists or the Freudian, if I'm going to parrot them, they might say, well, there's question begging there. Because the question is why is it so scary for him to submit his work? I don't know, maybe Adler would say because his goal is too grandiose or something. But there can be A question begging where they say, well, where's the fear coming from?

Yes, but again, you know, we said this in the last episode. It's. Adlerian psychology is described as a psychology of courage precisely because it requires courage to change your life. It requires you to do something different than what you have been doing.

Yeah.

In fact, there's a moment in the book where he talks about the way we are right now, like our personality, because it doesn't just talk about your life as being something that can change, but your personality being something that you can change. Because again, the, the etiological approach, the Freudian approach is your personality was formed by your trauma. The Adlerian approach is your personality is what you chose in order to achieve your goals.

Right.

But you chose the personality that worked for what you're trying to achieve. So he says this of the way we are. Although there are some small inconveniences and limitations, you probably think that the lifestyle you have now is the most practical one and that it's easier to leave things as they are if you stay just like this experience enables you to respond properly to events as they occur while guessing the results of one's actions. In other words, if you stay the way you are, you know the kind of events that will occur based on you being that way. And you'll know how to respond to them because you've responded to them a thousand times in the personality that you are today. So you know your way around that. You could say it's like driving your old familiar car. It might rattle a bit, but one can take that into account and maneuver easily. On the other hand, if one chooses a new lifestyle, no one can predict what might happen to the new self or have any idea how to deal with events as they arise. It will be hard to see ahead to the future and life will be filled with anxiety. A more painful and unhappy happy life might lie ahead. Simply put, people have various complaints about things, but it's easier and more secure to be just the way one is. There is anxiety generated by changing and the disappointment attendant to not changing. I'm sure that you have selected the latter. In other words, he's saying to the young person, you have selected disappointment that comes with not changing instead of the anxiety that comes with changing.

It makes me think of, you know, when you're in a. In a, in a relationship, it could be romantic, it could be friends, family, whatever, and it's like an unhealthy dynamic and you just complain about them all the time to other people and everyone's a little bit like, well why don't you just leave or why don't you just say something or stop being friends with them or whatever.

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And I suppose under this premise, it's because it's serving, it's meeting a need, right? And you enjoy complaining about it more than you actually enjoy. Like more than you, more than you want things to change, if that makes sense.

Exactly right. And by the way, I think that all the time, like there are certain people in my life who have complained about things for so many years and it used to really grind me down because I wanted them to be happy. I wanted the best for them. I didn't want to see them suffer. Every time they complained, I equated it with their suffering and I hated that. At a certain point I had to realize you want to complain more than you want to change this situation. You actually want to complain about this. This is serving you in some way. This is meeting some kind of a goal and understanding that makes you realize you can't. It's a, it's a fallacy to think that you're going to change what that person's doing because this is serving them. You're hearing they're complaining and going, oh my God, this situation isn't serving you, you've got to change it. But if they're complaining about something over and over and over again, 100% this is serving them in some way. It may not be making them happy, but that's not. Human beings aren't driven towards happiness, they're driven towards comfort.

Yeah.

And avoiding pain or staying with the pain they know instead of the pain they don't know. And as we just said, disappointment of staying the same or some nothing ever Chang versus anxiety of changing everything and not knowing where I'm going to end up as a result. So a huge amount of this and I guess the point that I wanted to make with this episode and we have all sorts of things coming up like Love, Love, Lifeline, and we're going to read a couple of comments from you guys. We'll have a Steve sleeves. But I really thought this was an important idea to bring to the table, not as a dogma, but as a kind of way of opening up a conversation. Because one of the other statements it makes is when people dislike themselves, it's serving them in some way to dislike themselves. You know, if they deeply care about relationships and they want a relationship, then they know they'll get hurt by being rejected in a relationship. So rather than get rejected if they dislike themselves and then they take themselves out of the game, the disliking themselves is serving them in some way. If they say, I don't like myself because of this and I hate my looks and I hate my this and I hate my that and it. It's like we are rejecting ourselves so that we don't have to face the pain of rejection from other people. That. That's what he means when he says that we hold on to disliking ourselves as a kind of cherished virtue because it's a kind of protection that we're giving ourselves by disliking ourselves.

I was reading a book, I actually finished it last night called Prozac Nation by Elizabeth Wurzel. Oh my God, this book is incredible. It took me like months and months to read it because of how busy with me. But it's. I just. I love her writing so much. But it's really funny because not to spoil the punchline, but it's all about depression. And she ends the book and she talks about how basically the whole book is about how her depression is ruining her life. And she goes into this vulnerable graphic detail as to what she's feeling, thinking, how it's affecting her, everything. And then at the end, she gets put on Prozac. She gets put on Fluoxetine, which is Prozac, and she basically starts to. Her depression starts to dissipate and what she realizes is that she's actually become so attached to her depression and that she even believes on this weird, twisted level that people only like her because she's depressed. And you know, because either they feel sorry for her or because she has developed certain personality quirks through that depression that are very interesting and different and unique and it makes her special in some way. And even though it makes her life miserable, she talks about basically this fear that if she is no longer depressed, people will leave, no one will pay attention to her anymore, her therapist won't want, won't worry about her anymore and therefore spend all this time working with her. And it's just so interesting because the kind of the unconscious way in which we hold on to things that make us so deeply unhappy, it reminds me of that.

Well, to go back to that story of the guy who basically locks himself away in his room. You know, if the example he uses is if he struggled with neglect from his parents, but now he locks himself away in his room and what he has is his parents attention. He has them walking on eggshells around him. He has, he has power, a kind of power. And if he were to suddenly say, I'm going to put this behind me and go out into the world, he would risk becoming an anonymous part of, you know, faceless part of the masses. He would be, he would have to now get attention in a completely different way. And that, that's a scary proposition for all of us to give up. The thing that we know is on some level, conscious or unconscious, working for us in service of something we don't know is going to work for us is a really, really scary thing. And that, that by the way, is one of the fundamental reasons why it is so hard for us to change. And I say this, by the way, as someone who deeply believes in trauma. You know, I have been talking about trauma for years now. We have on this podcast, you know, the friends that we respect and admire in the field of psychology are deep in the work of help to heal from trauma. So I, I, you know, I could not sit here and say that, you know, I think that the, the, the, the sentence trauma doesn't exist is a helpful claim for someone who has clearly been through real trauma and needs recognition for that trauma. Because there is a point at which I believe being recognized for the trauma that we've been through is incredibly healing in itself. It's like finally being seen. It's like having a, I think sometimes having a label for what we've experienced is very powerful. Because it makes us feel like we're not crazy and it can give us a sense of closure, of, oh yeah, that I have been through something really big and that is affecting me. And, and that is why it's not easy for me to change these things. But I, I do. I, I also, even though I know, like certain people we know, would be horrified by the claims of, of this book because it would go against everything they believe, I have that other part of me that knows that there is something incredibly helpful about these ideas. I feel like this is kind of a proverbial battle that goes on in all of our minds, the battle between Freud and Adler. One of them saying you are the way you are because of your trauma and that's why you're struggling and that's why you're not achieving what you want. And, and the other one saying that all that happened to you, but you are where you are today because of the goals you have today. And if you want different results and if you want to change, change your goals. Your trauma is not dictating your life. Your goals are dictating your life. There's a kind of tension between those two ideas that I actually find incredibly helpful. And for me, I know that I get incredibly empowered when I no longer feel bound to the traumas in my life. And I feel like that my life can change by changing the goal. Guys, if you are loving our conversation, but you wish that we would address your specific situation on the podcast right now, maybe you're wishing that I could help you with a specific conversation you're having or you just want some insight on how to approach someone you see every day. I created Matthew AI for exactly this purpose. This is my digital mind that you can be coached by having it in your pocket 24 7, anytime you need. You can try it for free. And if you love it, you can actually get it unlimited for just $7 for your entire first month. All of this you can find@askmh.com and remember, you can ask Matthew AI anything from what a message is means to what you should say. Back to a message to am I overthinking this situation? Can you calm me down? And it gives you real time, personalized advice based on everything I've taught over the last two decades. It is wildly affordable, it is discreet, and it is insanely helpful. It gives you a level of tailored contextual advice that previously was only ever available to people I worked with one on one. It is honestly remarkable. I am so proud of this product and it has helped over 100,000 different users at this point. So I feel confident it will do the same for you. Go over to askmh.com and try it for free or access it for unlimited amounts of coaching for just $7. Right now.

I've experienced that feeling of realizing some of my. Again, let's accept both are right in different areas, but sometimes I've even had recognition of, wow, this chunk of my suffering has been a choice. Like, this chunk of my suffering, I've just gotten so used to. I've gotten so used to thinking this way. This goal that I keep striving for is actually not what I really care about, but I've kind of absorbed it. I've kind of been pursuing it and I've realized, like, it's made me miserable and sometimes just reorienting and just changing the lens, changing the goal I'm pursuing has completely changed how I felt day to day about things or how I see a relationship or how you see going about this work goal you're looking at and being like, what am I actually trying to do here? It's maybe not why I think it is. So, yeah, I think on a practical level, it is empowering and useful as a framework.

I will say this, though. I think you need to get to know yourself well enough to understand what's maybe causing, you know, your anxieties, your depression, your. Your blockages in life in general. Like, is it trauma? And if it's trauma, where does it come from? And what are the belief systems around it? Because I think almost having that validated, whether through, you know, a therapist or doing that work on your own, or even with people that you trust, I think is so. Is such a. An important key to actually being able to heal and move forward. But once you've identified that, I think it then requires that brave step of going, okay, but am I going to allow this to basically dictate who I am moving forward, or am I going to be brave and make different decisions and therefore change my future? And I think that's almost. That combination of the two things is really, really powerful.

I agree. I don't. I don't think you have to choose a binary option.

Yeah. Because I think if you just go down that road of going, I'm going to change my goal. But you don't understand yourself well enough to know why you're coming up short in all these different ways that you don't understand why you're not writing the novel, why you can't get better with your depression or whatever. Like if you don't understand that, I think it's really, really tricky to change your goal.

I couldn't agree more. I'm fascinated to know what people listening to this think. Email us podcasty.com you know, these ideas may be, you know, completely new to you. It might have initially made you bristle. Maybe listening to the kind of debate makes you realize that there's space for more of one or the other in your life. I actually think to your point, Audrey, the type, a person who's always been goal oriented and has never taken any time to understand why they are the way they are and some of the ways that they struggle in a way that's allowed them to give themselves compassion is that that person might need more of that approach to self discovery. But I think it's a fascinating debate and I love, I'd love for you to email us and let us know. Like, what's one way that this has made you think about your life differently or about your approach to love differently? I couldn't help but think about the episode we did on limerence and how so many Limerence limerent people do not actually ever say how they feel to someone because they have the goal of holding onto their limerent fantasy.

I had the exact same thought.

So it's, you know, I think I'm just so curious. For your love life or your life in general, what has this episode brought up for you? What has it made you think? Has it made you realize that you there's a goal that's keeping you stuck in your life that you've been following and you've been talking about it as your trauma, but actually there's a goal that you have right now that is not serving you. Email us podcastthewhussey.

So let's move on to our love life line. Question this question came in from Ava. Steven, do you want to do the honors and read the question?

Yes. Ava says hi love life. If I'm lucky enough to have my question answered, feel free to read it as is. No need for anonymity. I'm 32, a single mom, and my daughter is almost 10. I started dating someone two years ago who I genuinely thought I'd be with forever. We talked about intentions, emotional needs and boundaries early on. Within two months, he moved closer to me. After a year, we moved in together. He makes more money, so we agreed he'd cover most shared expenses and I'd handle housework and cooking, even though I also work full time. We had some early disagreements, mostly about money. My daughter and My ex, who's still in my life only for co parenting. But things got better after six months. Then when our lease ended, we were looking at new places. He even mentioned needing a room for a baby. The next day, he said he couldn't do this anymore, that he couldn't financially support me and my daughter forever. He moved into a one bedroom without warning. I was financially unprepared, and now my daughter and I are living with my parents. He since said he doesn't want to never see me again and asked to keep a door open with the condition that we tell each other if we start dating. Anyone else. I'd love your perspective. Should I keep that door open or close it and move on?

Close that door.

Yeah.

Yeah, close that door. That's. He blindsided her. And it sounds like he didn't. It wasn't like something. It wasn't like a conversation, and he just changed his mind overnight. And then, you know, now she's moved back in with her parents, which I'm sure is really painful for her. Like, that must be an incredibly painful and stressful and heartbreaking, you know, experience to have to have had. And, like, now he's saying, like, basically, like, doesn't want to completely let go, and I don't, like, oh, we'll start telling each other if we start to date someone, that's basically saying, like, let me get over you. And the fact that I just kind of completely discarded you in my way, and I can slowly get over you because I'm not just completely cut off from you. Ava, get rid.

I'm curious. Audrey, what do you think of the whole. What do you think of the whole. He makes more money, so we agreed he'd cover most shared expenses and I'd handle housework and cooking, even though I also work full time. I'm curious what you think about that, because it's not like she's saying, we agreed that I would take care of the home and you would work and pay the expenses, but I, you know, I take care of the household chores and everything. It's both of them working and her saying, I'll take care of the household stuff. I'm curious what you think of that. I mean, no, that's not intended to.

Be a leading question, because she says most shared expenses. I'm assuming the. The pay gap might be quite big. Maybe she doesn't make as much money. So maybe she, you know, focuses on, you know, spending money for herself and her daughter and then, you know, chips in in small ways. But he maybe pays for the rent and the things that, so I, I, that doesn't bother me so much. It's quite, you know, I, I, what I do think is that in a way, if you are going to be with somebody who earns less than you and you make that decision, that person's clear about like, this is what I can afford. This is what I'm able to do. I think coming up with something that works for both of you is okay. And maybe he feels like, you know, he doesn't want to do the housework, so he's, he's compromising in that way. But that's the point.

She's compromising in that way.

He's compromised. As in, yes, as in like he's going, well, I'm, she, she gets to compromise and chip in in that way. And then like, I suppose to ask.

I struggle a little bit with this because I'm, I'm, I, I think that people come to all sorts of arrangements that work for them and between them. And maybe here, if there was zero resentment, that's the issue.

Yeah.

But I do, I do want to at least point out that there does seem to me it, she's not saying I quit my job to take care of the home because he makes enough money to cover our lifestyle. She's still working full time. And I don't know, I'm not sure I love the whole, like, I, we're both working, but because I earn more money, I can sort of bully you into doing another job on top of working.

Yeah, I, actually, I, now you say it like that. I kind of agree because, because all.

That'S different is you earn different amounts of money, but you're both. That doesn't mean one of you is working harder than the other one. It just means you earn. There are nurses who work far harder than entrepreneurs, making 50 times or 100 times what that nurse makes, but the nurse is working harder. So if you're dating a nurse who like, kills himself every day helping people and then goes home and has to do the housework and the cooking too, because they happen to earn less and that's the thanks they get for it, I just don't, I don't know that the fundamental basis on which you're saying I do the housework and the cooking makes sense to me.

Yeah. If you're both working full time, it's, that's a bit like using your money as leverage.

Yes, that's exactly what I felt when I read that. I don't, I don't like that. And I'm not, by the way. You know, ladies and gentlemen, I am not trying to make a gendered point here. Like, if you're. If. If you are at home doing the cooking and the cleaning and the taking care of the house and the kids, and that's what brings you joy, and you make a great team with a person who brings in the money. I don't. I'm not someone who's like, you should shy away from those traditional roles. If the traditional roles work for you, great. But what I don't like about this is, to me, it. It's goes beyond that and into. We both work, but I earn more money, so you should do more at home. I. I just don't like that you happen to earn different amounts of money. If you're the one earning a lot more money and you want a better quality of life for your family, then. Then my opinion is that you pay for it. Like, it's not. You can't then resent the other person because they don't earn as much as you. Be grateful you're earning enough to have a great life or don't date someone who earns less than you because you can't handle that.

It sounds like he has a weird relationship with money to me because that. Then their arguments have been about money, and then they end up breaking up over money.

Yeah, there's a lot going on from the beginning here. I feel like he's using. He's early on kind of used money to, as you said, Steve, he used his money as leverage to get her to perform. Like, basically to say, I don't want to do the cooking or the cleaning or anything like that. So, you know, I'm. I'm paying our shared expenses, so you should do that. And it's like, no, you're paying the shared expenses because you earn more money. It's different. By the way, if you came along. Here's what. Here's what's different. If he came along and she said, I don't want to pay the expenses I used to pay. Like, if she was like, paying her rent or paying her mortgage, and then all of a sudden someone with money comes along and because they're in a relationship, she's like, hey, I want you to pay the mortgage now. I don't to want to pay the mortgage. It's like, well, hang on, what changed? Like, why now? Now you're the one who's leveraging their money because you're saying, I don't want to do anything now that you've arrived with the deep pockets and I want you to take. And then I think if, if you say that to someone and they say, well, in that case, here are the things I don't want to do, then now you're, you're in a kind of even conversation.

Agreed.

Right. But if she hasn't done that, if you're paying the same expenses you were for your life before, it's just that now that you're with this person, they want to upgrade your lives because that's what they're used to. You don't owe them anything for that. Yeah, that's something, that's something they want for themselves in your relationship. So I, I, I say that only to set a kind of context for what I think may have gone wrong even early on here that then reveals itself when, because he's clearly got this entitlement around him and his money and what it should, what should happen because he has money. Then you said, okay, we had some early disagreements mostly about money. And then, you know, the lease ended, you're looking for new places, and, you know, he said that he can't financially support you and your daughter forever. And so to me, what that says is that was on his mind since the beginning. This didn't, this, this may have felt like it happened overnight to you, but this was a conversation he was having in his head that was leaking in times where you had disagreements about money. But he, he maybe never actually shared what was at the core of it. So he's, you're having surface level disagreements about money that are really at their core about his resentment about supporting a woman and a child and a child that's not his.

Which, which is why, by the way, I think keeping the door open is a terrible idea. And I think actually spinning it on its head and saying to him, I don't want to keep the door open. I don't, I don't think it's healthy for us to keep talking because frankly, you never communicated how you really felt to me. And what it's led to is you completely blindsighting me. And so I, I, I don't, I don't want you in my life.

And I don't see that resentment in you, you going away. You know, I'm not gonna not have a daughter in three years or five years or eight years like that resentment for you. I can't, there's nothing has happened to, for me to know that that resentment's gonna go away. In fact, the, by you deciding that you need to live elsewhere, you've shown me very clearly that that resentment is still there. The only way you're managing it is, is by taking the option off the table for a shared life. So as long as that resentment's there, we can't have a relationship. So I agree with you, Audrey. The answer is it's not don't leave the door open because that resentment in him hasn't gone anywhere. It's just being managed by him controlling the situation.

Yeah. I'm so sorry, Ava. This is. I really feel for you. And just reading this question to me, like, the idea of you thought you were going to be with this person forever, then you have to move back in with your parents, you know, knowing that you and your daughter got incredibly close and attached to this person. It's a mess. And actually, you should be a little bit angry, I think. And that anger should be a helpful emotion to carry you forward in getting over this person and finding someone better. You're 32. You've got so much time ahead of you to find someone who, you know isn't going to do that to you.

Yeah. Very good. I really am glad we did that question. I thought it opened up some interesting ground. We had some emails and comments in from people who have been listening to the show. Thank you so much, by the way, for listening to the show. We appreciate it. If you ever want to email us, podcastthewhussey.com is the email address. We had a few comments on episode 307. This was the interview I did with Shan Boodram, the sex expert. It was called why Intimacy Feels so Good with the Wrong People. Go back and listen to that one if you haven't already. It was a good one. Iz says both sexes should listen to this, not only us women. Yes, it is that good and is actually fun and informative. Thank you. Well, thank you, Izzy. Rosie says, what about when certain sex positions are trigger points, but you want to try new ones with your partner, but you feel that they are judging you because of it? So. Good question. You know, I think that you have to. Everything is about culture. What culture do you create with your partner? And sex is a difficult one. We talked about it in the episode. We all have, you know, to a greater or lesser degree, egos around sex. Some people get jealous easily. Some people are, you know, some people carry a lot of shame around sex. Or some people are very good at directing shame around sexual. You know, some people don't want you to allude to the fact that you've done things with other partners and that's why you want to do it now. And they get very easily offended by that or they start being, you know, making you feel shameful. I think that it's a, instead of going, how do I get them to do this position? It's more, how do I create a culture where we can talk about things that excite us and you can be careful with your partner's ego. I don't think, you know, I'm not someone who believes that you should just ignore the fact that your partner has any kind of a ego, or if they sometimes do get a little bit jealous, or if they do, like, struggle to hear, like, graphic detail. Like, it's not, you shouldn't, like, make it hard for your partner unnecessarily. But I also think that it's possible to just say to your partner, I'd love to know things that you'd be excited to try. And I want to share more of what I'm excited to try as well. Because, you know, there are things that I imagine you doing to me that really turn me on. And I think framing it in terms of them, like, I imagine you doing this to me, or the other day, the other night when we were doing this, it made me think, I'd love to. Like, this is a position that would really turn me on with you. The with you part is really important because it personalizes it. It's not just some abstracted sex thing that you're excited about. It's something that's feels organic to your relationship, that feels like something you want to share with them. So create that openness. Create that, try and remove egos from it and have a compassionate and playful approach to exploring in the bedroom. There was a comment from episode 308 on how to Know when to Walk Away from Fatima, who says, this is my first comment here. I love the podcast, Audrey's comments and her voice, but I have to disagree that not wanting to move with a partner is avoidance. Does she mean move in with a partner, I wonder?

I think it's about where they live, like, if they want to move.

Oh, not wanting to move somewhere with a partner. She says it might have, I might have misunderstood what she was saying, but it could just be that someone loves their career and it would be hard to continue where a partner wants to, to live. I think women work hard for their careers and are very proud of them. It's hard to move and give it up.

Yeah, I agree with that. I, I, I don't remember that I said it was avoidant.

I think it's because I said if someone was like a city person, you're a country person, and you just, like, think, oh, we're too different. We shouldn't be together. And you said that was avoidant.

I think it's more just if you find, you know, if you really, really want to be with someone, I think that you have to. Sometimes there's things that you can't compromise on, and it can be a stalemate. But, you know, I think trying to find a way through in a compromise in order to make it work, I think is always preferable. And I think if you're going, well, I'm not even going to bother trying to see where this goes, because I know that they enjoy living in the country. And that's not. For me. I think that's avoidant because you're finding.

Reasons to dismiss people or you're genuinely not compatible. Right. One or the other. Like you. You're either. If you do that with everyone all the time, and the excuse is different every single time. I agree. Like, that's. That's avoidant. I think sometimes we. We struggle to make peace with the fact that we are simply not compatible with somebody, that our visions do not align. But it's. But. But you and I and Steven, you too, have seen so many people who. There's always a reason why it doesn't work.

Yeah.

And they're perennially single, and there's just always another reason why. And you. At that point, you go, there is a kind of. There's a. An avoidance here that's posing as fussiness or posing as a standard for getting it right.

But I agree, for what it's worth, I really. I wholeheartedly agree that your career matters. And if it's something that's really important to you, you shouldn't give it up for another person, whether that's a career or a house or whatever. Like, I think there are. There are cases where compromises can't happen because two people absolutely love their life and, you know, there's just no compromise to be made. But there's other cases where people are flexible and you are able to meet in the middle.

Well, Stephen, I think it's that time.

Oh, yeah.

Steve's sleeve.

Okay. Cue the theme song.

Don't be bereaved. You know that we can't leave without another episode of Steve Sleeves.

Okay, gang. It's a classic today. Bingo. Inferiority. Bingo.

Okay.

Inspired by Adlerian psychology, he thought a lot about inferiority complex. We often do unhealthy things to compensate for feeling inferior. So I'm going to go down a list of inferiority signs and you just tell me if either of you have done them. The first to five loses.

Okay, I'm probably gonna lose.

Okay.

Go on. Okay, so this is who's most inferior.

Who has who's bigger, who's feeling inferiority complex.

Okay.

And this in the past or right now in your life, We've experienced in the past. Okay, got it.

Okay. Over interprets silence. Eg they haven't texted in two hours. They clearly hate me.

Bingo.

Okay, it's not bingo. It's just one.

I've never played bingo. Sorry.

She's anticipating all five.

Yes.

Yes. Okay.

Yeah.

Okay. One each.

I don't know. Wait, was it. They're mad at me. They hate me.

Like you just feel they haven't taken.

They just don't like me.

Okay. That counts. Overcompensates with bragging. Like casually mentioning something you achieved recently.

Yeah. Bingo. Oh, not bingo. Sorry. Bingo. I'm inferior.

Avoids vulnerability. Keeps. Keeps conversation surface level so they can't reject the real you.

Me.

I haven't done that. I don't think.

I've always been pretty bloody open wound.

Picks people out of reach. Like, if they're way out of my league, I can't fail.

If they're way out. What do you mean I can't fail?

Like, I feel inferior to them and I'm kind of like. I'm almost like purposely picking people that I think I can't keep or.

Because then what? I don't actually have to. I can just say they were out of my league.

I can. I can relate to picking people that I think are going to make me feel worthy because they're really great and impressive.

Oh, okay. That's interesting.

And that's like an inferiority thing, I think, right?

Yep.

Like, but I don't relate to, like, who I know aren't going to be interested in me because I'm scared of rejection.

What about if it's like keeping that person's attention will be a sign I'm valuable. Like keeping.

Yeah, I've done that. Yeah, definitely.

You guys are winning too far.

You've got the vulnerability.

You're both losing too fast.

Oh, yeah. I'm on four, you're on three.

Yeah.

Mirror someone else's opinions just to be like.

I think I've probably done that at some point in my life, but not for many, many years, I would say.

I don't think you guys do that in any unusual way.

No. Okay. I won't Hit the button.

Yeah.

Okay, let's see. One ups people's stories.

I don't do that.

I don't think I do that.

Fishes for compliments. Questions like, do you think I look my age?

I do that. Or I. Well, yes, I do that with people who are close to me. Oh, God, look at Matt's face. Imagine him.

See?

Yeah, I do that with, like. With Matt, I'll be like, do you think I look nice? And I'll, like. I'll ask for, like, validation and compliments.

But I wouldn't, like, be like, can you give me five reasons that you.

Think I. I don't do that anymore. I.

That's five reasons you love me.

That's not fair. I used to do that, and then you told me you didn't like it, so then I don't. Haven't done it for years.

Okay, that's true.

Even though I still want those five.

Reasons, I don't do that one.

I do it with. With Matt, or I'll do it with, like, people I'm really close to, but I wouldn't do it with, like, you know, just people, if that makes sense.

Are you counting that for Audrey?

Yes.

That's Bingo.

No, no, I'm on four.

Bingo. Bingo.

First of all.

No, she got the one before that as well, I think.

No, I didn't. You know that I'm. We're tied with the vulnerability now. No. Excuse me. No, still time to.

Lose to be inferior.

Okay. Laughs Especially hard at someone's jokes if you admire or look up to them.

Oh, I do that.

I don't do that.

I do that.

Matt's got bingo.

He dumbed me with that one at the end. I've definitely done that. I've done that and squirmed afterwards and thought, who am I?

Maybe Audrey does it. Audrey's got.

I don't think I do that.

No, you don't. I think. No, I think you don't do that as much.

I struggle to do things. Like, I struggle to, like, be inauthentic. Like, generally. I struggle to, like, put on a front. And it does not. Like, it sounds like a very righteous thing to say, but, like, sometimes it's not necessarily a good thing because I also don't have a poker face. And I'm very, like, you know, I'll leave the party early.

So. Sorry. This Steve sleeves revealed that, like, bingo, Matt's more inferior.

No.

You know where this led.

You know, it revealed we. We all have vulnerability. We all have.

Yeah. But I still won the game of who's most inferior?

That wasn't the game, it was bingo.

Okay, call it what you will. There was still a five that you had to get to first.

No, it was inferiority complex.

That's what this has left me with.

All right, I hope you're proud of yourself, Stephen.

And that was another charming episode.

Steve's Sleeve Send in the Podcasty if you're enjoying Steve sleeves yeah, it's podcasty.com.

Is this the week we finally end Steve Sleeves? You let us know podcasty.com leave me a comment on this video before you go. I love hearing from you. And by the way, if you're watching this and you really want to find love and you see other people around you pairing off and finding what you've been looking for for a long time and you're feeling like, when's it going to be be my turn? How might I be getting in my own way? Is there something I'm doing to sabotage my chances in this area? How can I finally find what I'm looking for? I am going to be helping people uncover their deeper patterns, understand their blind spots, and find what they're looking for this October at my retreat. If you haven't got a ticket yet, you can get your tickets@mhretreat.com and don't worry if you can't make it to be there in person. In Miami with us, there is a virtual ticket that means you can participate in this event and get the content from it from wherever you are in the world. Go check it out@mhretreat.com grab your tickets and I can't wait to see those of you who are coming.

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