When Is "Casual Fun" Dangerous in Dating?

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Amica, empathy is our best policy. Girls just want to have fun. And is that okay? That's what we're gonna be talking about today on Love Life FM.

First, they have news, weather and traffic going up with Audrey up in the sky there with helicopter chopper, go ahead.

What's going on, Audrey? Tell us what's going on up there.

We're heading for some strong headwinds. Gigity.

Welcome, everybody, to the Love Life podcast. We're back. Me, Matthew Hussey, Audrey who's got a hand in the air, Stephen and Jamerson.

Present.

Present and accounted for. And my lord has the cold snap set in in merry old England, Matt. The weather changed overnight.

It's gone, Steve, I'll just say it's gotten a bit chilly in LA.

Mm, it has.

Has it?

Like, I'm, yeah, I was pretty Steve. I've had to put on an over shirt.

I went out this morning and I almost turned back around for a sweatshirt.

Right.

Almost.

I've got, Steve, I have got a button down shirt on, unbuttoned obviously, over a t-shirt.

I have a jumper on 'cause it's freezing.

There's two layers. One very thin layer over another very thin layer.

And that is actually coming from the man who likes to keep the house like a freezer. He literally keeps me in a permanent state of frozenness. That's not all.

You did an ice bath the other day. Did you know you were gonna sign up for this when you got engaged to Matthew?

I didn't. I didn't. It was actually quite funny because I was going through a bit of a hard day. I was having a hard time and Matt was like, okay, I know. Let's do something to cheer you up.

I didn't say cheer you up. I said take your mind off things. Big difference.

It's like major pain. You guys ever watch that movie?

No.

This guy is like wounded in the battlefield and I think it's like Damon Waynes goes up to him, Want me to get your mind off that pain? And the guy's like, yeah. Just takes his finger and snaps it.

That's your strategy.

Yeah, pretty much. I think doctors even have a name for that. If there are any doctors out there, there's a, you know, like where they sort of give you a sensation. No, when you're like, feel pain, when they're giving you an injection, but they kind of, Give you a sensation on your other arm or something to take your mind away from it. There's a name for that, I feel like. Any doctors out there, nurses can help us with that?

That's just misdirection.

Yeah, but there's a name, Stephen, I think. I'm not sure. We are going to start by reading one of our dear listeners' emails that came in. This one actually came in in relation to the porn episode we did. She said to my favorite podcasters, I wanted to share my thoughts in response to your question about porn, which you posted on Instagram. If you don't follow us on Instagram, @TheMatthewHussey is the place to go. It's an interesting one. In the past, it hasn't bothered me and I have dated men who would watch porn. However, I recently experienced the bad side effects of it when my most recent partner was into it. The issue for me was that he began to demonstrate behaviors relating to BDSM, and there were certain things he was doing in the bedroom without us having had a conversation about it. Sure, I'm all about being feisty sometimes, but there's a time and a place and a line, which he was definitely crossing. It began to make me feel, let's say, uncomfortable when it came to having sex, and at times I was wondering what scenario he was trying to play out. For example, one night I was getting ready for bed in the bathroom, and when I came out, there were restraints tied to my bed. Amongst other things. I remember feeling quite angry that he had set this up without talking to me, especially as I had felt sex between us was becoming very dominating and I wasn't enjoying it. I also started to notice that unless he engaged in this type of behavior, he would struggle to get an erection. The more dominating he became, the more I found it harder to use my voice and speak up for myself. and typically I'd say that I am someone who can stand my ground. I did manage to have some very awkward conversations, and he'd often tried to guilt trip me, but it took a while for me to realize what was going on. I'm pleased to share that I am no longer with this person for an array of reasons, but this was something that I've only really had time to digest since we split. It would definitely make me hesitant to be with someone in the future that is very into porn. Some areas of it can represent dominating behaviors and speak a completely different language which doesn't express love or respect. If two people consent to this sort of experience, that's fine. But when it's one person who is addicted to porn forcing such behaviors onto their partner, it's a big cause for concern. Happy for you to share this on the podcast if you would like, but just refer to me as Kay from London. PS, y'all keep me company while cleaning the flat. Love you. And she says this in caps, hi, Audrey.

Hello. Okay.

That's nice. She didn't say hi to the rest of us like that.

Sorry.

How good is it when you have a podcast to clean your flat?

I know.

I was just thinking of Kay in the kitchen cleaning, having a great time, which is what I do. And it's, It's lovely.

It just made us all feel human. 'Cause you just go, oh yeah, everyone and other people do that too. You just clean up, listen to a podcast. Feels like you're cheating life when cleaning up is enjoyable because you're just somewhere else listening. I really love what you said there, Kay. I've read that email, which by the way, anyone can send us an email podcast@matthewhussie.com We occasionally like to read them out on the podcast when we have time. But I really love that because I think it's so nuanced. This is not coming from someone who has an extremely dogmatic view on porn. It's someone who has experienced the negative effect it can have. And I love that you contextualize that by saying that if ultimately it's just going one way, this person has this world that they go to that then instead of being in conversation sexually with me, they are just bringing back this world to me in a way that's never really discussed. And it just feels like it's all going in one direction, meeting this person's needs, what they're trying to achieve, which they're not even really talking to me about. And it's obviously affecting our sex life because this person can't get an erection unless they're doing these very specific things. that's a problem because in sex, as in any other part of our relationship, it's about being a team. It's about having each other's backs. It's about looking out for each other, and it's about making each other happy, not just getting our own needs met. So thank you, Kay. I thought that was a really beautifully written email. Well, we are talking today. about casual fun in dating and to what extent casual fun can actually be harmful in hidden or obvious ways. There is this frame that we set up for ourselves sometimes in dating where we tell ourselves it's okay just to have a bit of fun. I'm just having a bit of fun. We've all said that before. Oh, I'm just dating this person. It's, you know, it's just a bit of fun, or I'm just seeing this person again or seeing this ex or going out in this way. I'm just having a bit of fun. And when we do that, there are sometimes consequences that we didn't anticipate or never intended as a result. And yet we do live in a society where increasingly it feels like it's. It's, you know, we shouldn't have stigma around just having fun. We shouldn't have stigma around just. hooking up. We shouldn't have stigma around casual sex. It feels like a very good thing that we don't have stigma around those things. But we have to separate the conversation about removing stigma from these things, from the conversation about whether they're actually serving us. And today I want to have a conversation about whether it's actually serving us. And when we quote, say we're just having fun, are there things that we need to actually be conscious of? So that's what I want to open up to today. And I can kind of kick things off with some thoughts of my own, or you guys can jump in first.

I actually think it's important to frame up the difference between this idea of just having fun and, you know, just seeing how things go and not taking it too seriously and enjoying something for what it is versus actually breaching your own boundaries and needs and desires just in the name of keeping someone in your life that isn't actually meeting your needs or making you very happy on a real level. Does that make sense? I think there are people who are in casual phases of their lives where they are just looking to explore options and maybe they're healing from something, maybe they're just doing whatever, but it's about making sure that you're not just indulging relationships that aren't making you happy. I suppose that's the thing I would like to start with.

So what you're getting to there is being really intentional about what you're doing and being really awake to what you're doing, because we often lie to ourselves.

Exactly.

And we'll come on to that. I, I, I often, by the way, think also, though, that what complicates this even further is you can absolutely be in a stage of your life where you're just kind of, you know, an age where you're having fun and taking things quite lightly. And there's no guarantee that the other person is. And I've hurt too many people in my life where I was very content to just be like, yeah, I'm just having fun. And it. I didn't have a lot of regard for what was the experience of the other person in that. That's kind of, in a way, that's kind of a. Just yet another conversation. You know, I think there's a. There's a conversation to be had about how much casual sex is casual, how many casual relationships are casual, because I think it's a hell of a lot less than we think. Like, there's. There's usually one person who ends up. feeling not so casual. There's one person who likes the other person more and is going along with casual because they just want to be close to that person. And they feel like that's. That's the way to do it, is just to kind of not muddy the waters by getting serious, even though internally they're starting to feel things. And, you know, how. How many casual hookups? truly result in no hurt feelings. There are some for sure, but the idea of like this hookup culture where everyone's just having meaningless sex and I just don't buy it in so many cases. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I just think that so much of it is one person feeling super casual and the other person trying to get close to someone they're attracted to.

Or they start out evenly super casual, and then suddenly, somewhere along the line, the balance tips a little bit.

Why am I jealous? Why the moment you realize you're jealous, then you know it just went beyond something purely casual. 'Cause if it wasn't, if it was just casual, why am I, why do I care?

Well, isn't that the theme of so many films, usually of which star either Mila Kunis or Natalie Portman? There's two friends. There's two friends and they try and make it fun and chill, and then it's suddenly not chill. And that's the kind of drama of the film.

Yeah.

I think there's two questions that people eternally ask, don't they? It's like, can a man and woman just be friends? And can you just have a casual thing? And I think those are two recurring questions in dating that sort of come up all the time. I think it's because having fun is never seen as a permanent state, is it? It's like if you can't have fun forever, because having fun forever would, by definition, mean you're in a relationship with that person. So having fun with someone inherently means there's an idea that this isn't gonna last. And that's a difficult situation then, emotionally. to take on if you get more and more attached, you know, it's gonna have an ending where you feel either just it feels like a breakup or it feels like pain or you feel like you're with them and you know them really well anyway. So it's kind of like, by definition, most people are used to that situation ending in pain for someone.

Right.

And if that, which doesn't mean again, again, I do not think that, like, I do not think there's never a time in people's lives to do this or to be casual. I don't think everyone needs to be in a relationship all the time. I think sometimes two people realize something is what it is, or they realize it's temporary, or they realize it has a shelf life, or they just. They're in a more relaxed, open thing. So that does happen. But I just think for a lot of people, it ends up as. a kind of halfway thing that ends up with emotional attachment anyway.

You know, I think the crux of it is what you said, Matt, is, you know, how honest with you... And I think this is a life lesson in general, is how honest are you being with yourself about how you really feel? Because we are so good at lying to ourselves. We really are, especially when we want something. We're so good at saying, like, no, this is fine. We're just having fun. see where it goes. I'm cool with that. I'm children, as you've said before, appropriating the other person's excuse for not committing to us. When deep down, if we were really honest with ourselves, we really wish we were having a bit more than just fun. And we wish it was more serious and we wish they would just, you know, commit to us in some way, shape or form. But we're just so good at lying to ourselves. And that's the dangerous part, which I think is at the core of this whole discussion.

It's, we have to try to catch ourselves when the kind of euphemistic, I'm just having fun, is really an excuse to, to do, continue a behavior that's hurting us and reliably hurts us a lot of the time. And we use it in all sorts of situations. We use it if we're casually seeing someone that we want more from and they don't want more from us. And so we kind of adopt that idea of, I'm just having fun, you know, and it's a very easy thing. And by the way, what I think is really interesting is I know there were times in my life where I knew better, and if I said to somebody else, I don't know, I just feel like this is Probably not a good idea. And the moment I started to get too heavy about it, there was always a friend or there was always someone. It could even be my own mother who was just like, oh, just go have fun. You're young, you're fine. You know, just stop overthinking. Oh, you make everything so serious. And it's like, there's that idea of just go have fun. You know, like, it's kind of a way to bring everything back to the surface again.

Jameson, why were you giving Matt such terrible advice? And he was Going around breaking hearts.

Sometimes it was Jameson.

You had a good time, though. Well, I think that's a really interesting point because it does come back to, like, maybe it was fun, but it comes back to what the opportunity cost actually is. So it's like, it's gonna be painful. That's one thing, right? It's like, how casual is it really when things end in life? Kind of like you're saying, Steve, like, it's just painful. You're never going to escape the pain. What are you going to do? Just avoid it forever?

No.

So your mom or whoever is giving you advice, go live life, have some fun. But I think maybe the insidious part is just when you don't realize that there is actually an opportunity cost. So what is that opportunity cost, man?

Great. That's a great question and a great point. One of them is time. So there is an age at which you kind of feel like, well, the time is not the big factor. I don't need to base my decisions on lost time. And some would say that's never true, that time is always important. And if it distracts you from, you know, getting ahead and doing great work, or if it distracts you from, you know, if it breaks your heart and that heartbreak takes up just huge amounts of time to get over each time, that's a lot of wasted time. Some people would even say you should start looking more seriously earlier because you know, there are dangers to leaving it too late. But there are certainly times in our life when time is not the biggest factor. And there are other times where it's like, I, you know, I coach people all the time. We all do. Where you, you know, someone's kind of fucking around at an age where you go, what are you doing? Yeah. What are you doing? You, I'm not saying that as some objective truth about age. I'm saying when someone is at a certain age and they say, I want something serious, but at the same time, they're like, oh, but I'm just having a bit of fun with this person.

They're still throwing their time and their life away over connection.

Yeah, it's like, you're not this. There's not a separate compartment of time that you're running down over here. And the clock of real life doesn't, you know, just keeps going at a normal pace.

You're.

You're using up real time, and so time is one big opportunity cost is that. even fun stuff takes time. It takes time because it often gets messy. It takes time because it often results in heartbreak anyway, even though it was just supposed to be fun. It takes time because it creates a kind of tunnel vision that takes you away from going out there and kind of being hungry. You know, if you're constantly having your needs met, even if in a fun way or a superficial way, it takes the edge off of looking for real connection because you're getting some form of connection, even if it's a bit of a fast food. connection. You're still getting something. So there's that. The opportunity cost is, as I've said, how much pain does it actually cause you? And you have to be really honest with yourself about that, especially in situations where you really are lying to yourself. Like an ex comes back into your life and you know that ex is bad for you. You know that that person broke your heart before. You know how long it took you to get over it, but enough time has passed. that you've been able to forget all of that or kind of willfully forget a lot of that. And then that person comes back into your life in some sort of fun way, and there's feels like there's some chemistry and it feels like there's a playfulness to it. And all of a sudden, with that person, you're like, oh, this is fun. Oh, it's just a bit fun. Like, oh, it's a blast from the past. It's an ex. It's like, then all of a sudden, it's something that you can just, instead of seeing as, no, this is a gateway. back into all of the heartache it took me so long to get over, I almost see this as like, oh, it's just like a, you know, this is fun. And it can be fun and it can be exciting. And guess what? A month from now, all of a sudden, you're like, oh, my God, I'm like, I'm back in that place.

That's so, so true. And I think we're creatures of habit and creatures of patterns. and if you keep repeating, if you keep going for a certain kind of person and you basically, you date guys where you're constantly not really valued, they're not really committing to you, they're flaky, they mess you around, blah, blah, blah, all the rest of it, they're inconsistent. You start normalizing that behavior and then you start your bar and your standard for what a person should treat you, for how a person should treat you, I should say, basically kind of lowers and lowers and lowers, and you drive further away from what true connection and intimacy feels like and into the darkness. And then it becomes really difficult to kind of find your way back because you now no longer have any real points of reference as to what a real connection should feel and look like. All you have is these kind of like spikes, you know, these kinds of ups and downs and really intense moments and almost feeling like you're constantly trying to obtain someone rather than like ever just having them and feeling safe and comfortable and peaceful in a situation. And I think that then becomes almost a curse in itself. And it's the one of the biggest dangers of the we're just having fun rhetoric because you do just end up feeling so disconnected from what a real relationship should feel like.

It's a great point. This is, I think, the primary argument that I wanted us to get onto because in life, what we make familiar to us ends up more and more becoming our reality. And there are so many different realities in life as just as a bigger concept. There's so many different realities. There's a reality where you're someone who is angry all the time and gets in fights all the time. And if you're that person, that's kind of your reality wherever you go. There are guys like that. There are guys who, wherever they go, you know, it's funny, I He was a old boxing coach of mine in London. He said he went out with a guy that he knew, like he was coaching a white collar business guy in London. And one day this guy took him to, I think it was the Groucho Club in London. And he took him into this place that's kind of a really nice place. It's a members club and he was around a certain crowd, a media crowd and whatever. and this guy was, he's from the East End of London. He's never spent any time in places like that. He's boxed his whole life. He's, he's been in a certain gear his whole life. And he got taken into this place with this guy, and he said, he was being very vulnerable with me. And he said, I realized something about myself that night. He said, because I went in there with this guy and I was standing at the bar and he looked at me and he said, what's going on? And my boxing friend looked at him and said, what do you mean? He said, what's going on? You're like tight. You're like, Look really uptight. You look like something happened. And he said, nothing had happened. But it's like he'd walked into this place already looking for the trouble. already looking for, like, what. What was going to be the grief, what was going to be the aggravation that he was going to have to deal with tonight. And his friend, who's, like, not even. Just doesn't live in that world. He's not even thinking in those terms. His friend was in a social Club. He was still in a boxing ring, and all that was on his radar was the next. way that someone could disrespect him. And if you look for that, that's what you find, right? There'll always be someone who aggravates you or disrespects you or says some, the wrong thing or gives you the wrong look, and you go through life looking for that, and that's your reality. There are other people whose reality is always helping people, and so they go through life, and there's always someone that needs to be helped, and there's always someone they need to give to, and there's always, you know, and sometimes to a fault, you know, they're playing save the day everywhere they go in every situation. And in our love life, it is no different. What we have become familiar with, what has become so known to us, becomes the thing that is just on our radar wherever we go. And you say, how can you keep... Not only how do you keep dating these people who are like this, how do you keep finding them? You can have a friend who...

So true.

Who you are like, I have never dated someone like this in my life. and you seem to find them. You are a heat-seeking missile for toxic people, or for aggressive people, or for sarcastic people, or for mean people, or for people that disrespect you. It's like, how do you keep finding them? I don't even know where I would find this person. But it's like the race car driver where they say, if you're a race car driver, you look where you want the car to go. And if you look at the post that you're about to crash into, when you're starting to careen off the road and into a post, they say, look at the road, because that's where you want the car to go. If you're looking at the post, even though you want to turn the wheel to get away from it, you drive straight into the post. And it's like that in life, only we've come to believe that the post is all of life. The all of life is that post, and you can't go anywhere without hitting it. But it's because it's what you know. And if you consistently in your life, if you've early on gravitated towards a certain kind of person, then that kind of behavior and that kind of person, that's the post to you, that's what you That's what's on your radar. And it weirdly becomes, whatever room you go into, that's in the forefront. Like my boxing friend who goes into a room and what's in the forefront is the potential fight. That's what it's like. Everything else is dull colours and the bright colour in the room is the problem. In dating, the bright colour in the room is whatever you're used to. And other stuff starts to actually, we develop, no, we start to lose our peripheral vision. And other stuff just isn't there anymore because this is what we're used to. I have a friend who said, she started, you know, her new boyfriend started treating, or the guy she was dating started treating her nicely. He was doing nice things. He didn't start treating her nicely. From the beginning, he was nice. And she said to her mum, I don't, this is weird. He's like nice to me. He's doing these things and he's sure, you know. And her mum said, that's how it's supposed to be. And for her it was alien for someone to be this nice. For somebody else, that's their reality all the time because the only people that are in full color to them are nice people. Everyone else kind of is the, the, the dull colors that don't stand out. And to me, it's actually the dating version, the adult dating version of what happens to us growing up. When we're growing up, our parents, and our very immediate people that raise us, that what they're like is what we're familiar with. It's what we're used to. It's what we know. And the reason that we go out and seek to replicate it is because it's familiar to us. It's because it's known to us. So we may see the wrong kind of behaviour, but if it's reflect, we don't think of it necessarily as the wrong kind of behaviour. We think of it as how life is. And so we go out there and we find people that replicate the bad circumstances of our growing up because we go, that's That's just what I know. It's familiar to me. Anything outside of this is just complete unmapped territory for me. And so you end up just dating variations of this same person over and over again. And that person who treated you badly, or that string of people who have treated you badly, no longer feels like it was specific to those people. It becomes a globalized view of people in general. Like if you're a policeman and you're always seeing people in those moments, you're getting a window into people in a certain aspect of themselves or their lives or a certain type of person. And it trains you to think that's what reality is. And I know that there was a point in my life where I realized all of the kind of casual flings I was having was having an effect on my mindset. Because even if I came across someone who had a kind of a very intentional way of going about their love life and they were looking for a serious connection, I was wired for like instant gratification. I was wired for something that moved quickly. I wasn't in a place where I met someone like that and I recognized that language. And the thing is, when you operate in, let's say, in that case, a more casual world of connections, you're used to other people who are doing the same. And if I put myself in the perspective of a woman who's dealing with a lot of guys, who are in a casual place. The problem with that is that those people are also constantly giving you their logic.

Right?

They're constantly selling you on why, on their way of life, their logic, why that feels like the right thing to do. Why, I don't know, some guys, they make arguments about why monogamy is flawed and why it's never going to work. And if you hear too many of those arguments, you might start to believe them. and you might start to believe that, Wow, everyone thinks this. If enough people tell you you're being too serious or you're being too, oh, you're so intense. Oh, you're so, like, you try and go too slow or you try and, if you hear that from enough people, because those are the people you keep gravitating towards, you start to think that's what people are like. And you start to adjust your behavior to those people. So now when you meet someone who's not like that, you don't know what to do with them because they speak a different language than you, or they speak a language that you've long since forgotten, and you don't realize how far you've drifted from what you originally wanted or set out to have, or from what in your head logically you're saying you want it. I want, you know, that's where you get the difference between people's what they say they logically want and what emotionally they keep being drawn to. Because logically, I am telling everyone, including myself, I want to find something meaningful. And emotionally, I keep responding to really casual, superficial behavior. And you go, why do you keep saying you want something real, but you keep going for people who clearly are not looking for something real? And it's because that's the behavior I recognize. That's what's known to me. That's what's familiar. and I'm drawn to what's familiar. And now I spend my life because I don't realize how far I've drifted from the possibilities that are out there and from what I'm going for what I really want. I spend my life trying to convince people who are just in the wrong category to be more like the thing I want, because the wrong category is all I know.

I absolutely love this point. I think it's so important, and I think so many people have ourselves included. I don't know about you guys, but have suffered with this and have been either on a receiving end of it or a perpetrator for it. And I just think it's going to resonate with so many people, and it is. the fundamental issue with how, you know, a lot of people say, I keep attracting this kind of person, or, you know, every time these guys just turn into, turn things into a casual thing and blah, blah, blah. I don't know why. And then every time you speak with them and you kind of dig a little bit further, a little bit deeper, you realize that, you know, the guy they're speaking of, they've already let back into their lives three times after they've been inconsistent, flaky, done this, done that. They've had no standards, no boundaries with them. They've tolerated really poor behavior. They've ignored red flags. They've done all of these things. And then there's kind of still in the place wondering, and I don't mean this in a kind of in a judgmental way because I think we've all done it, but they're still in a place going, why is this not happening for me? And it's exactly what you've just said. I almost, in my mind, I picture it as like, you know, like a coloring book. It's, you know those books when you were younger that you'd color in and the picture would reveal itself? I almost see it as like you're coloring in the same bit over and over, but you need to start coloring in in the bits that aren't colored in and see what reveals itself. Because it's kind of, you've colored that bit in so much that the colors are really dark and intense and it looks really beautiful. And maybe as you start coloring into the other bits, it will be more faded and foreign and it won't make sense and the shapes will look a bit weird. But over time, that will make sense. That will become a whole picture. And the more you can start sort of, you know, dating and just surrounding yourself with sort of an energy that matches your values and actually aligns with the things that really matter. The more that you can do that, the more you start really seeing the value in those people. And then the further away you get from the other people, the more you start going, I can't believe I used to tolerate this kind of behavior. I can't believe I would spend all day agonizing over why someone hasn't messaged and then be elated when I get a message from them at 9 p.m. after they've ignored me for 48 hours. And you start going, I would never dream of going back to that. But it's just, as you say, I just think it's so interesting. I think it's literally one of my favourite messages that you have said.

Thank you. I think that the way out of that is a very modest thing. It's curiosity. I believe in being curious about experiences that are outside of your own reality right now. If you have a reality, for example, that says everyone is not, no one's trustworthy, curiosity will say, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna trust this person. It doesn't even have to be someone in your love life. It could just be a new person in your life. And you go, I'm just gonna trust this person a little more. I'm gonna, I'm not gonna assume they have an agenda or I'm, I'm actually gonna be prepared to rely on them a little more. I'm not gonna do that thing that I always do where I immediately put the walls up. and then you don't know what result that's going to have. And sometimes it will be good and sometimes it will be bad, but it will be a different result. And when you put a different energy into the world and when you give time to a new kind of person than you would normally give time to, when you explore their mindset, their belief, when you start to build a relationship with them, whether it's a friend, a business contact, or a partner or a lover, you start to realise how many different kinds of people there actually are in the world and how many different kinds of relationships there are in the world. And you even start to realise how many different kinds of relationships you can have with the same person based on your behaviour with them. If you are a bit more trusting with them, if you are a bit kinder with them, if you are more vulnerable with them, if you realise different People can offer you many different relationships just by changing the dynamic you create with a person.

And also, I have one piece of advice to add to this, which is, I guess, a public service announcement, which is just, Date less cool people. I just think so much of dating when you're younger isn't it kind of just like this kind of status game of like, How cool of a person can I get? How much fun is this person? And then as you get a little bit older and people are just, you know, fun isn't as fun, you know? Like going out all night and drinking probably isn't as fun because of the hangover the next day. And I think the advice I would give to like my future daughter or whatever would just be like, Yeah, I know so-and-so seems really cool, but you might not value cool as much in just a few years. Just a heads up, you know? And that cool person might always be... He might be pretty persuasive as far as like dragging you along to like the fun thing. Like, let's go have fun. We had that line in the what he means versus what he says video. where Jesse was like, you know, I'm just having fun right now. And you translated that for Anna Akana. You were like, I'm just having fun right now. I'm seeing where it goes with my penis. And he's just like, yeah, I mean, so much of the, what makes somebody cool is it just like, it's sort of seductive, like this world of fun, this world of cool. And if you have had this conversation with yourself and you realize, That's actually not what I want. I want my world to be a little bit more full of meaning and connection. Then, you know, date the person that isn't as cool.

Yeah, I was gonna say, Jay, I really think you're on something there. It's like, how does one practically follow that when people feel like, well, I have to go on my emotion if I'm feeling that with someone. I feel it. And I totally agree with you. It's just, it is quite a hard thing to direct people on, Because you're almost telling them, you almost want to tell people, and this is what I say on stage a lot, you've got to flip internally a switch inside of you that looks at shitty, flaky, non-committal or just like dickish behavior. You need a flip, a switch inside of you that actively gets turned off when someone behaves that way. and the people who are generally very effective at finding great people to date, they do have that internal switch where they're just like, I wouldn't even be interested in someone who's selfish, who lies, who acts like an ass, even if they're exciting, that wouldn't even interest me. So it's. I guess this is why we do a lot of internal work on our retreat and things like that, Matt, is because you really do have to have a fundamental mental shift in what turns you on and turns you off.

Well, and so what you just said is very, very important, Stephen, but there's a word you used emotion that I would also highlight in a different context, which is you said your emotions may take you in a certain direction naturally, right? So they make someone hot that maybe is not good for you. you have to realize that that isn't a sign of who you could be attracted to in the future and the breadth of people you could be attracted to. It's just a sign of the way your emotions have been trained. And the Curiosity that I'm talking about comes in here, because what it says is, I'm not gonna rely on that instinctive feeling all the time. For a minute, I'm gonna actually, you know, when you try a new food that you haven't eaten before...

It's all about food with you, isn't it?

Usually. When you try a new food, you're not emotionally drawn to that food, are you? You're always emotionally drawn back to your favourite food.

Pizza.

But there's emotion... There's a new food that you haven't tried yet that's your future favourite food.

Chicken Parm.

There's something... Did you say chicken parm?

I did, yeah.

By definition, Stephen, you don't know what it is yet. You can't decide what's going to be your new favorite food. Okay. Although I did at one point in my life think I really wished I liked donuts because I would always see them in the Simpsons and I'd be annoyed that I didn't like them.

You don't like donuts?

No, I trained myself. I like them now. I love them, in fact.

What a great use of will, like to train yourself to like donuts. Good for you. Is there nothing this coach can't do?

What a great use of your time and willpower.

So, my point is that we have all had a food that turns into our favorite food that we don't know we like yet. And when you don't know you like it and someone offers it to you, your response is not, yeah, let me try that. Your response is, eh, I'm good. and someone's like, no, no, no, no, no. You have to try this. You're going to like it. It's really good. And you're like, no, I'm good. And you gravitate towards the thing you've always eaten. The person you date next might be a person you've never dated before, might be a food you've never tried, but the curiosity about that thing might give you your new favorite food, might give you your new favorite song, might give you your new favorite country in the world to visit, and it might not.

Just be based around fun or cool, you know?

Exactly. There's a particular program we have that I think is actually strangely relevant to what we're talking about here. It's called the momentum texts. And the reason I think it's relevant is because sometimes when we want to attract something different. We have to do something different in our communication with people. But we don't know what that is because we've been attracting a certain kind of person and communicating in a certain way the whole time. And so you can go, okay, Matt, I want to get curious. I want to shift. But how do I do that? What does that even look like? And seeing text messages written out already that look different to the kind of messages you send right now that are intended to lead you down a path with a quality person that is more meaningful than the Casual connections that we often gravitate towards or get sucked into. That is gold. And what the momentum text does is it gives you 67 different messages that you can send to someone. that will change up your communication style and therefore either attract a new kind of person you normally attract and a better quality person or attract better quality behavior from the people that you're talking to already. So if you haven't got this program already, go to momentumtexts.com this program is seven bucks But I think it's the best value you can get with us because it literally gives you it on a plate and you can start using it today with anyone you begin talking to or even someone you're already talking to. So go check it out at momentumtexts.com and also email us and let us know what you thought of this episode. podcast@matthewhussy.com is the address to email to. Let us know what you thought of this. Let us know what spoke to you the most. We'd love to read a couple of responses on a future podcast.