When To Open Up In A Relationship (w/ Matt and Steve)

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Well, Steve, these podcasts have been going pretty well. I. I'm excited to record another one with you. People are in. Are you getting great feedback on the Love Life podcast with Matthew and Stephen Hussey?

People are raving. They are loving it. It is the smash of the beginning of 2021. The hot new pod, they're calling it over Apple over at Apple. Yeah, the podcast. The podcast group.

So you're directly in contact with people over at Apple enough to wear casually. They're you hear in the hallways, them saying, this is the hot new podcast.

Yeah, well, they call it the hot new pod, but that's is sort of slang at Apple.

Can we do the thing now where we go. So wait, are we. Because I think we should just release this. Don't have your formal start because you know, every time you go. Welcome everyone, to the podcast. This is Stephen Hussey. You know what I mean? Should we just skip that this time and say this is the beginning of the podcast?

Yeah, I mean, that's one way to open it. Sure.

We've got 1160 people coming in live on Instagram.

It's too many, isn't it?

It's a plug for the Instagram on the podcast. If you're listening to the podcast and you don't. You're not on Instagram with us, then you're missing this.

Well, okay, so we have already started recording, but I feel we should dip in before all of that waffle.

And then you start as if none of that waffle happens so that you can cut it out if you want.

Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Love Life podcast. I'm Stephen Hussey, of course, and we've got Matthew Hussey with us in the room.

And it's possible that you didn't hear anything that just happened before Stephen said that, which was us just doing preamble. Stephen's decided to cut out.

It's potluck. Whatever makes it into the final product.

Hello, we got questions today, Steve. How we. What are you thinking? What's in your mind?

Well, what's on my mind is what you've been talking about, sir, which is being a bit vulnerable, letting your little soft underbelly show in a relationship.

Okay, can you. I don't want to see your soft little underbelly on this podcast today.

Right, well, that. Speak for yourself. Luckily, podcasts are an audio medium, so our listeners won't have to say that anyway. Well, look, I was wondering about this. You took an answer on a recent video from Jessica talking about her difficulty and using passive aggressive behavior as a kind of weapon or as a defense mechanism. This issue of, you know, why it's hard for people, you know, in a relationship or at the start of a relationship to be able. When people talk about, they struggle to be vulnerable. I was trying to think what that means, because we don't really mean. When you are being vulnerable, you don't mean early on you want to reveal every pertinent fear and phobia and worry and inner insecurity you have to someone. What is it you want to reveal at the beginning or when you're dating someone? Is it just that you think you are putting on a pose and you want to drop the pose with someone? And I guess for some people, they find it hard to ever drop the pose and that's why they're always being the witty one, the cutting, sarcastic one, that sort of thing. But do you think it's like people just don't want to lose control?

Yeah. Yes. Yes. They don't want to lose control. And by the way, that can go in two directions. It can be by never revealing anything about yourself or you get that person who is self deprecating in a really brash way where they always voice their insecurities and they always talk about every part of themselves and whatever. And it's like a kind of. In a way, it's its own defense mechanism, isn't it? I'm gonna. I'm gonna tell you everything about me, and if you don't like me for me, then screw you. You know, this is me. And I think that is also a sort of. God, it's a. It's a really aggressive form of vulnerability where you're preempting any way that you could be rejected by them by either rejecting yourself first or wearing it really brashly like you. Well, if you can't handle me, then that's on you. Like, I'm going to just be me and I'm going to Tell you everything about me. And that's up to you if you can handle it. Handle it or not. And it's like, well, you don't need to say everything all the time. Like the. You know, the. Like, I speak my mind. Speak my mind. And you know how annoying the person is who says, I speak my mind? Well, not every thought you have is something that needs to be said or is useful to the rest of us.

Yeah, that person's never the most charming one in the room or the most interesting one to talk to.

Part of great conversation is knowing is being discerning about what to say and what not to say it. You know, you may say vulnerability may say to maybe saying to someone, I was a little nervous coming on a date. You know, I haven't been on a date in. In a minute, but it may not be saying I. For the last three hours, I kept changing dresses because I felt like I looked overweight in every single one of them. Like, that's not right.

Yeah, that's a good example. Yeah. What is that then? That. That is vulnerability, that second one. But it's. It's a kind of. Oh, is it an overexposure? Is it.

It's a bit of an overshare in a way. You know, there are things that are appropriate for a first date. Isn't therapy then. They're not being paid.

Yeah, yeah.

It's supposed to be fun. It's supposed to. You're supposed to have a good time. And you have to ask yourself. It's like those guys. Remember the book Guys? On the Montreal episode of Anthony Bourdain, parts unknown, where the guy who he has dinner with in Montreal says he literally sees being. He sees hosting as an art, but he also sees being a guest at someone else's dinner party as an art.

Oh, yeah.

And he will come with stories prepared, whether he's the guest or the host at a dinner party, because he believes in the art of being a great guest, of being a great host. And Bourdain kind of laughs because he's like, wait, you prepare stories? And he's like, yes, absolutely, I do, because it's my job to go and be a great person to spend time with. And, you know, you may or may not go that far on a date, but there's something to that. There's something to understanding that part of our responsibility on a date. I'm not saying it's not both people's responsibility, but being yourself doesn't mean not working. To be an entertaining person, to spend Company. To spend time in your company. You can be yourself and try. And being entertaining is not wearing every one of your emotional wounds on your sleeve. That's not funny.

Yeah.

It'S not entertaining.

Going on the date and revealing all these ways you think you're a total mess. And what you'd say to your therapist, it's like you've picked the exact wrong context. It's not that, oh, they can't handle me. It's that they're thinking, why? Why in this moment when we're supposed to be having fun and getting to know each other, am I getting revealed traumas or revealed, you know, her deepest insecurities? It's like, it's inappropriate, right? So there is a timing issue. That's why I think some people do think, so. What? I can't. I can't really be myself. And it's like, no, it's. There's always a timing and a strategic time to be your weaker self.

Yeah, exactly. And to. And look, we reveal our wounds in all sorts of ways. Sometimes it's not by saying, I have this deep, dark insecurity that I'm not enough. Sometimes it's like, you know, the great one is, like, where someone's, like, telling a story, and someone's like, oh, so you went to Antigua? Who did you go with? And they're like, oh, I went with my ex husband, but the less said about him, the better. And you're like, okay, but that's a story for another time. Yeah, okay. What's someone supposed to do with that? Like, you know, the snarky comment made about someone or the gossipy comment made about someone, or, you know, I remember. I remember years ago being on a date with someone who, like, just spoke with such venom still about their ex. And I just remember thinking, why are you telling me this? This isn't. This is not date conversation.

Yeah.

Like, you may have a problem with your ex, but don't. You don't. Like, this isn't the time to bring venom towards someone else. This is the wrong audience. Like, know your audience. Your job on a date is to bring the best of you. It's not like, take me as I am. Well, is that fair? Like, if you took you. If you're having a shitty day, that means take me as I am. Means take me as a shitty person today because I'm having a bad time. That's not fair to the other person. Don't go on the date. Yeah, don't go on the date. That's more fair to the other person because they've given up their time and energy to be with you tonight. Like, that's not respecting someone else's time and energy is to. Is to bring that to them. It's not. I'm just being myself, you know, and I've said this to you before, Steve, I don't just make a video and go, well, you know, if I'm. If I'm feeling really negative today, the audience is going to get that me, because that's just. I want to be me. No, they expect better from me today. If I'm going to get on and make a video, then I have a responsibility to bring an energy that is good for people, not an energy that brings everybody else down.

Yeah, there's like authenticity, but there's also, if it's in a relationship, it's like being also a good partner or a good company to the other person or being, you know, it has to be that give and take. And yeah, in like, if someone came to a party, someone comes to a party and starts like unloading all this stuff, you think we're at a party. Like, this isn't the time. You know, this is a party. This isn't the time to.

I remember, you know, I remember being Jameson took me to, I think it was for my birthday one year. You took me to a set Sam Harris talk in la and we were in the audience in a Sam Harris event. And I remember at the end of the event, this guy saw me and he came over and he was like, Matthew Hussey. And, and, and I said, yeah. And he said, oh, good to see you. He said, it's quick question. Like, I'm curious, like, what qualifies you to do what you do? Remember this? And I just thought, what?

Right. Old charmer.

And by the way, he wasn't saying it in like a vicious way or anything. He was like asking it as a. Like a genuine. Almost like a genuine question.

I just thought, did he go, sorry, sorry, Matthew Hussey. Just one, one thing. Where do you get off? Who do you think you are?

I just wanted r. But like, how is that the right room for that question? This isn't 60 Minutes, not on Piers Morgan. Like, what's. This is an event. Me and Jameson are having some friend time on a night out. Like, why would you ask how is this your question? Your first question that you asked me is this not. Hello, mate, I've seen your videos. Just, you know, I mean, honestly, the things people say where they don't read the room, like, this is this is what's called for in this moment. Like, it's fascinating to me and it's how little sometimes people are preoccupied with being charming, how little they are preoccupied with coming across well, or just coming across as a nice person, a kind person. You know, how many people don't think it's their job on a first date to show up and give someone really warm energy in the first five minutes? How many people think it's someone else's job to come along and impress them? Well, I'm going to see if I like you first. What? Someone came out to see you. You don't have to go on another date with them, but you're there, you're there. So give them your best energy. And it's the same thing when someone goes on a date and they. It's always like you're. You're immediately assuming bad intentions instead of just going, you know what? I'm going to assume the best intentions right now, just for this moment. I'm going to, you know, hear what someone does for a living. I'm going to get curious about them. I'm going to see what they're all about. I'm just going to listen and be impressed with some things about them. I don't have to act impressed with things I'm not, but I'm just going to, like, give them the benefit of the doubt as a human being. Because when we do that, people warm to us, they become their best around us, and we may decide at the end of it. I think I didn't like the vibe I got from that person. I don't want to see them again. We may decide that, but for the time we're with them, unless they do something, unless they do something obviously disrespectful, obviously egregious, assume the best of that person. Assume the best intentions, assume the best, the best best traits. Because you want to have a nice time. And people tend to rise to the occasion around people that actually see them in a positive light.

Yeah, yeah. And I think with the vulnerability thing, it's always that thing of, you know, you talk a lot about unique pairings. I think you can. That can get popped in at some point or it will come naturally. There might be a point where you'll say something a little more vulnerable or a little more honest and. But if that's interspersed with you also being self confident in other ways, being self assured, being, you know, you know who you are in other ways, and you don't think, well, I'm a complete mess you're like, no, I've got all these things, these things that are great and these things I love about myself. Then it's all in context, and it doesn't feel like such a big thing. And you can always decide, right, if they react badly when you show one tiny chink in your armor and. And they suddenly are, like, super, like, uninterested, or they judge you, then you can be like, okay, that tells me something about this person. You'll find that out.

But you'll know that person who doesn't value vulnerability because they won't be vulnerable themselves.

Right?

You'll literally. You'll see a lack of humanity in that person. You'll see someone who is, you know, everything they do on a date is perfect. And they never can laugh at themselves. They take themselves very seriously. They're always talking about all of the impressive things about themselves. But there's never any, like, that human warmth that, you know, that person who you can relate to. It's the same thing, isn't it, with. When. When it. Whether it's a politician or a celebrity or whoever. When we talk about, oh, you know, he's sort of. He's a sort of politician or the sort of celebrity or the sort of whatever that you'd want to grab a beer with, what we're saying is that's someone who feels like a human being. Yeah, that's someone who feels like I could actually, you know, relate to them.

There's some soul. There's some soul in there that actually has, you know, experience and things, and.

That'S what vulnerability is. And I have to say this because I. Steve, I just feel like this is a good. A good moment to say it. We have a comment here from kd, and I'm not. I'm not having a go. Kd W star. But you said. Are you okay? Seem a little off. Steve, you have no idea how many of those kinds of comments I get in general of people who will watch me in a video, and they'll be like, are you all right? You seem really sad lately. Or you seem a bit off, or you seem a bit.

I've seen them. I've seen the comments.

You've seen them. I'm. I always think that's an interesting filter, too, because I am lich. I am being me. Like, when people say, you seem off, I always think, you must not have watched enough of my videos, because this is literally me. This is who I am. I'm not being. I don't. I'm not someone else with Jameson, after the camera goes off, I am exactly me.

Yeah.

You know, a me that puts in a little bit of effort. You know, I don't always put in this much effort with Jameson.

True.

But. But this is me. And it's always interesting to me when someone says, like, you seem sad, you seem a little off. Matt, why are you so. You know this? Lately I'm like, you mean three dimensional? You mean I have different sides. Like, that's. I know who I'm going to connect with on a deep level because that's the person who's always like, I love your authenticity. I love your vulnerability. I love that you just, you are who you are. Like, that's the person I go, oh, there's a human connection there. Not everyone's going to feel that with you when you're vulnerable.

Yeah.

You know, some person you're going to be on a date with, you'll be vulnerable and someone will be like, oh, well, that's a, you know that you'll say something about, that you feel about life in general and they'll be like, well, that's kind of a depressing way of looking.

Yeah, yeah. That's kind of negative. Yeah.

And you're like, well, yeah, maybe we just have a different outlook on life. Like, I'm not the Mr. Happy, Happy, Happy, everywhere I go, person. That's not who I am. I have a deep, dark, existential edge to me alongside. It literally sits alongside the part of me that thinks life is the most magical and beautiful thing that could possibly be. They sit right next to each other.

Yeah.

And my romance and part of vulnerability.

Is accepting there is pain in life and I have experienced it.

That's.

It's part of the honesty of it.

But Natasha, this is funny. Natasha says, but you're not answering. Are you okay?

It's a good point. Are you?

How have I not answered that? But listen, but I just, I really, I want to zone in on this because I think it's so important. It's. What are we expecting of people these days? The answer to the question, am I okay? Is in many ways I'm the best I've ever been. I'm wiser than I've ever been, Steve. I feel more aware of myself and the world and my connection to myself than I've ever been. I feel more driven and excited about our purpose than I've ever been. But I also am in a constant kind of working with my emotions, working with, you know, sadness here or an anxiety here or a worry here about the future that Makes me realize I'm too far in the future and not in the present. Worrying that I'm not doing enough. Worrying that, you know, am I doing the right thing? Worrying about a piece of content that just went out and thinking I could have been better. Worrying that my family are halfway across the world and I love them to pieces and they are my world and I'm not with them every day and sometimes suffering from the guilt of that. And should I even be in LA right now? Should I be back home in London even though I'm happier in America? Should I be with my family? Because I'm actually happiest when I'm with my family. God, that presents a conundrum, doesn't it? I'm building this life in America, but ultimately I know that I want to be around the people I love the most in the world. That's, you know, my. And by the way, that's 10% of what I'm feeling. So the answer to am I okay? Is a complex one. I don't feel like we're allowing enough complexity in people these days. I feel like we want these sort of self help robots walking around. But I feel like we have gotten into this place in life that really freaks me out where I'm like what.

I think I do. This hasn't happened for a while.

What sort of Stepford wife automaton manufactured synthetic version of positivity are we looking for that doesn't allow for us to have this kind of complexity? That means that if I make a more solemn point about something or if I get a little deeper about something, or if I talk with a more melancholy side of me that it must mean that I'm not okay. I suppose in a way I'm always okay and I'm always not okay. That both of those things is it. Don't both of those things exist in you? We're going to die. I'm not okay with that. Like that's something I'm not okay with. My family's going to die. I'm not okay with this truth. It doesn't bring me joy, it doesn't bring me happiness. I am both okay and not okay at the same time. I don't know why we think that life is supposed to be a different way than that. I mean, my God, we sit on Instagram where all these people talk about how one how their peak performance and living at their highest level. And you know, I think that what must that do for people who just right now are focused on hanging on for dear life and they're just like, I'm just, you know what my life's about right now? Trying to get by. I'm trying to get by. Peak performance. What on earth is that right now? How many people are just trying to get by? I'm just trying to do my best and get by. I'm struggling. How many people are just trying to get by right now? And yet we pinpoint it. When someone doesn't seem optimally happy, who the fuck is optimally happy? Who? Like, I don't know them. I don't know them. I see them on social media. When I'm with people in person, I don't see them most of the time. I see people who sometimes are giddy in love. That's different. That's like a drug fueled high. I see someone who just got off stage at an event and they're high on adrenaline. That's a drug high. This idea that, you know, someone shows a range of emotion and a complexity and we go. It's like a mum who is like sees their kid is having a dark thought and says, oh, what's wrong, dear? Do you want a sandwich? And you're like, mom, the sandwich is going to fix the fact I'm going to die.

I love the range we've covered here.

Have you seen the crown? There's just a brilliant moment where Margaret, the Queen's sister is, who has much more of a sort of complex. No, the Queen is very complex, but Margaret has a sort of more vulnerable, open complexity to her. And the Queen and Margaret are sitting there and Margaret's trying to explain to the Queen that, you know, someone else they love isn't happy. And the Queen says, well, I think, you know, they could take a brisk walk. That always helps me. Cause the Queen's got this view, this sort of very shut down view of emotions that, well, a brisk walk normally helps. And Margaret's like, well, a brisk walk doesn't always do it for the rest of us, you know. And I think that about life, it's like you can't, you can't always shrug everything off by, well, you know, you just need to do your gratitude exercise this morning and you'll be all right. Okay. Some problems are bigger than a 10 minute gratitude exercise, you know. So I think we have to allow for a little more complexity than we allow for.

One One final thing. We'll see if we have time to cut this in. But do you think there is a male female distinction in men worry about vulnerability because they think it will turn off their Partner and women sort of worry about being vulnerable because they think it will make him feel like she's high maintenance or difficult or, you know, that sort of thing.

No.

Two different kinds of fears.

I don't believe that. I think that. That both sexes can believe that if they. If they're vulnerable, they're going to come across as high maintenance. But both can also equally worry that if they show them to be fallible, if they show their confidence to have holes in it, then that's going to make someone else think that they're less attractive or less together. Which, as we found out, Steve, on this live, is not an unfounded idea that the moment you do talk more honestly or show more of yourself, there will always be people who don't hold space for that. But what I would argue is that you must be vulnerable because it's only by being vulnerable that you're able to truly find who's right for you. If you're not vulnerable, you will never find that person because you'll never learn who can truly hold space for who you are. You'll always just be with someone who is with a represent that you'll be with someone else who is dating a representative of you, but not the real person. They'll be dating the delegate. And we have to be in a relationship where the person we're with is dating the real person, not the representative. You'll never know if they're attracted to the real person unless you get vulnerable. And my God, who wants to spend the rest of their life worried that the moment someone finds out who they really are, they'll suddenly decide to move on to the next representative they meet?

And who wants to date a delegate? Not me, baby. So let's.

You've always. And you've always said that, Steve.

I've always stuck by that. I've been consistent. Well, thanks, everyone. Thanks, Matt.

What are you gonna call this podcast?

I do my title magic. We'll figure out a name for it. Old Underbelly. Steve's Underbelly.

Why don't we call it that? Why don't we call it Steve's Soft Underbelly?

Yeah, maybe I'll have a think.

Well, it's been good, Steve. Can I just say, Steve, one of my favorite things about this podcast is that you and I aren't always good at. Especially because of the time difference between LA and London. We're not always good at picking up the phone to each other. Not on a daily basis anyway. And the podcast gives me time where you and I can just spend some time together and have some fun. That's one of my favorite things about it.

Thanks, man. That's sweet and vulnerable of you to say.

Well, I love you, brother, and I miss you.

I love you. All right, nothing that mushy stuff. I'll see you later, everyone.

Cheers, boy. All right, catch you later.

I see the vlog sites got a new wife.

Shorty got a new boo.

Yeah, love. Beautiful.