When To Quit A Relationship + What We Can Learn From The Dark Side of Anthony Bourdain

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Same brothers, new pod. How you doing, chief?

I'm Matthew Hussey. This is for those of you just tuning in for the first time. Me and my brother Stephen Hussey, we host this together, don't we? And Steve, I think it's safe to say we've been putting a lot more love into the podcast of late.

Love and care and heaps of sugar, baby.

I don't know what that means, but.

I was thinking of a cake. I was thinking of a cake, but.

Right. Well, we in, we're back with more episodes of this thing that we're doing and we're trying to, you know, just play with the format a little bit and your feedback is always welcome on that. Steve, where do people send their feedback?

Podcast@matthewhussie.com if you send some feedback there.

Letting us know what do you like most about the podcast? what's the format you enjoy the most? Do you enjoy Stephen blathering on about random cake metaphors or do you prefer us just to get straight to it? Or do you like it? Let's see. Let's hear the opinions. And what do you want us to talk about? And where do you want us to go with these episodes? Do you like it when we talk just about love life? Do you like it when we expand out and talk about life in general? We want to hear from you because this is really the only place, Steve, that we get to do this. It's not like our members area where we're specifically giving coaching and answering questions with live callers and people sending in their questions. That's for the members. The podcast is us, I suppose, talking about various subjects we think might be either useful or interesting to people.

Indeed, that email again is podcast@matthewhassey.com Very good.

I thought we'd start with a couple of reviews, Steve, that people have sent in. There's Ord Knows Best sent in a review about the half time episode, Steve. Very popular episode, the half time episode we did, which you'll see in the titles of our podcast recently. Matthew and Stephen are incredible. For starters, just listening to them weekly, giving incredible advice intermixed with their brotherly banter. There's someone who likes it, Steve, is just spectacular. They never fail to put a smile on my face. I also want to thank them for their recent half year episode where they talk about measuring up, especially in this world today with so many content creators and podcasts. As someone who just entered the life coaching space, it's easy to get into the headspace of, well, why would people choose me? what could I possibly offer that these other thousands of people don't already offer? But they shed some light and serious insight on this whole comparisonitis topic, not only comparing to others, but also to that person you think you should be. They help me see that just by showing up as my authentic self and owning it, I will inherently attract and appeal to to the right people. These guys are brilliant, extremely relatable and never cease to dazzle me with their humor and insights about dating and life itself. Would highly recommend to anyone looking for dating and or general life advice. Thank you guys.

Isn't that a lovely review, Steve? Well, thank you. Is it Auden knows best? Because it certainly does know. Auden certainly does know best.

Thank you for that, Auden. Matt. Yeah. And if for anyone who wants to leave a review, iTunes is the place.

Where you can go and leave us a review.

We are reading them.

Matt, I'll give you a, I know one you don't have access to or you probably don't see. Did you know iTunes gives you different reviews as regarding your territory? So if you type in, if you type in, if you type in different country codes, you can see the different countries of use. So on the GB one, we have a review from Bullen Digger, a collection of letters. Laughing and learning. The Hussie Boys are like the brothers I never had. They tell it straight, but they also have real compassion and empathy for the women they are helping AND they're genuinely funny. The dating world can feel like the muddiest of Glastonbury festivals for me. That is a seasonal festival for those of you not in the UK, very popular one. Worth staying in it for the highs, but my god can it tire you out and dampen your morale. Matthew and his team helped to make me better, more empowered decisions, and I'm constantly learning through watching and listening to their content. Keep it up, guys.

That's really lovely. And she really did give away that you. You really. That really was a regional reference with Glastonbury. So I know you're not lying when you say that that was a UK based review.

Yeah.

Can we have one from Libya now?

Yeah, I can search that up. Yeah.

Okay, look that up. In the meantime, what should we talk about today? Well, Steve, I. I. Someone I was. I was training the other day, and the person I was training with said to me, you know, Matt, why is it that people tend to hold on to relationships longer than they should? And why so often do those people, when they leave a relationship, immediately jump into another one? Like, there's this uncanny ability to find someone weeks within mere weeks of your breakup and then jump straight into another relationship. What do you, how do you see this? The, I think I've heard it called before a long time ago, monkey branching, where, where you don't want to let go of. Well, I suppose that's the, the idea of not letting go of the existing branch until you have another one lined up. So I suppose monkey branching might be a little more referential of the idea of literally teeing someone else up before you leave. But there's a similar concept going on there. What do you think's happening?

With the people who just jump into one relationship from another.

Well, let's start with why do you think someone won't let go of a relationship?

I think the won't letting go one is more common in a way because I think we as human beings struggle to let go of things when we should. There's a famous psychological bias called the sunk cost fallacy or the, what is it? Loss aversion effect, right? It's endowment effect, they call it, where the things we have are hard to let go of even when they're bad for us. That could be a job you should quit, it can be a relationship, it can be possessions. It's, we instinctively feel the pain of the thing we have if we lose it. Oh no, maybe that thing was essential to my survival. Maybe that was a terrible decision and I can't get it back and you know, when you're in a relationship, I think a comedian made this joke once, like no one leaves a relationship at the moment the relationship is actually goes terrible. Everyone waits another six months at least until they finally pack it in and...

Well, let's just pause on that for a moment because I suppose the counter argument to that would be if I left the moment things were bad, then I'm the kind of person that doesn't try to get through difficult times in a relationship.

No, but it might be the moment.

If every, if every relationship is going to go through difficult times and I leave as soon as it's bad, then I'm a runner, I'm a quitter. So then it brings up the question, how long should it be bad for before you leave?

Well, that's it, right? I think it's more that people don't leave when they realize there's no repair for this relationship. When people have even accepted or they think, I don't think this thing is gonna change or this has gone on too long, we still drag it out a bit longer.

What's too long though?

Well, because we might think there's no way to actually be happy in this relationship or there's no way to get my needs met and we still kind of dither on making the painful choice. Sometimes that's just because we know that's gonna go horribly as a and the conversation is gonna be horrible. Sometimes it's because we secretly are just scared that we're making a bad decision or we're we're frightened of How we will now figure out our lives and identity without this person. Because there's there's a whole rebuilding that goes on and it's like it's like preparing for, you know, it's like preparing for a big dive or something. You've got to like, I've got to strap my oxygen tank on. I've got to be ready. I've got to be prepped and trained because once I go down there, I'm not going to come back up for a while, so I've got to be ready.

Or you might be telling yourself they're going to change or the situation is going to change. And I think a big question on a lot of people's minds is, am I being crazy for thinking this is going to change? And at what point do I give up on the idea that this is going to change?

Yes.

When is the right time to decide this is not going to change? Or when is the right time to decide to throw in the towel on a relationship that you're trying to fix?

It's a hard decision. I have to say more often I see people though who struggle because they can't leave rather than people leaving too early. More common is people staying too long than leaving too quick.

But if you think about it, when people stay too long, a part of that is because of the justification they're doing in their mind where they're saying, they're continuing to convince themselves that this might change. There's a, you know, they're, they're looking at it as it's, as if it's still a question mark. And I'm fascinated by that because it's, whether it's with partners or with family members or friends, there are Always going to be things that we really don't like or wish were different or, you know, that create arguments, that create friction. And we have to almost start from the place of saying our relationship with a person is the relationship we have today. not the relationship we have in the future. And there's a series of questions we have to kind of ask ourselves, which is, is it bearable as it is today? If the answer is no, something has to change immediately. If it's livable and bearable, but it's not, it's not meeting my needs in the way that I would need it to long term. then the question becomes, is this about to change? Is this something that can change and is going to change anytime soon? And that's the part where most people are not honest with themselves. I had a really interesting situation where Someone said to me, they were talking about how their ex, they felt like their ex was right for them, but they'd just broken up the week before. And I was saying to this person, I see no reason why he's going to change. Like, what indication has he given you that he's going to change? and my friend said, well, well, I just, you know, we, we argue about this stuff. I said, but has he actually, has he actually acknowledged these things that you have a problem with? Has he acknowledged them and showed a genuine commitment to changing them? And she said, well, he, no, he, but, you know, like, he, he, he's so many of the things that I want. And so on. I said, okay, so firstly, there's no, there's not even evidence from his side. that he wants to change or is willing to or is making a plan to change, is committed to change. And change is really, really hard. There's that Jacob M. Broad quote, consider how hard it is to change yourself and you realize how foolish it is to think you can change other people. It's hard to change ourselves. So expecting that somebody else is going to change, especially when they're not even motivated to, especially when they're not even committed to that change, is fallacy. And then I said, look, this person's not showing any signs they want to change. And even right now in the breakup, he's not rushing back to you saying, oh my God, I want to change this, I want to change that, and let's try this again. And by the way, in that case, you'd still have reason to be suspicious because you haven't seen the change yet. It's not proven. this might just be a panic because he thinks he's losing you and he's now saying all the right things to get you back. Now, you might give him another chance, but it doesn't mean that he's actually gonna change. It just means you're giving him another chance that you feel like, okay, there's a certain level of certainty in his voice. There's a certain level of commitment in the plan that he's given me about how he's gonna change or how he's gonna address these things in the relationship. There's enough there for me to say, I'll give this a shot. And then I'm gonna watch carefully to see if that's backed up by real action and real change. But he's not doing that. And it was so funny because she said to me, so Matt, like in situations in your past where, you know, there's someone you really wanted to be with, but you broke up. If they came running back to you and saying, like, I really want, I really want this. You wouldn't be back with them. And what, here's what, here's what's really telling. I said to her, but he's not even doing that. You're literally giving me a hypothetical right now as a way to calm yourself.

Yeah.

Into going back to this person by you for the hypothetical. You've had to say this person is rushing back to you. wanting you back. He's not even doing that. And you're coming up with this hypothetical. So it's indicative of how people con themselves, how people create a reality in their mind that's not actually happening in real life as a way to justify giving someone more time and energy. Right. Yeah.

Yeah, that's right. I spoke to someone recently who was doing a similar thing and talking about a guy who clearly had no intentions of changing at all. And she was saying, well, what should I say to him then to get us back together? And we talked it through and it was clear she was doing all the work here. And this guy had shown no intention that he even thought these behaviors were a problem. But it was her saying, well, I said these were a problem. So what do we do? You know, what do I do now to keep him?

I mean, I want people to consider, especially anyone who's been through therapy or intensive coaching or has been on our retreat program. I want anyone to consider when you've been through a process like that, just how much it took on your part to actually change. Even though you'd committed to a process, even though you'd paid money down for a process, that it was still required you to really show up and give your all to that process in order for it to work. So Then you imagine the mountain that you have to climb for someone who you're with to not be showing that they firstly they even have a deep awareness of what's going wrong of what's bothering you a true understanding and then not saying I'm sorry and I want to change and here's what I'm going to do to change and then following that plan. If you're in the stage of just arguing with someone about something that's wrong and none of those things have happened yet, all your work is ahead of you. In fact, all the work is ahead of you if someone says that they would like to change and are willing to do what it takes. Still, the work is ahead of you. If someone isn't even doing that, It's science fiction, the idea that they're going to change. That is a made-up story so that you can continue to hold on to something that is terrifying to lose for whatever reason. Whether you're afraid of being alone, whether you've convinced yourself you'll never find anybody else, or more specifically, you've convinced yourself you'll never find anybody else with these qualities, or you feel like you can't handle the pain of losing this person.

And that's one thing we do right. We think the qualities are amazing. And that's the real truth, is people think there's, there's enough good things in this person, and then they try and sell themselves on the, the toxic behavior or the behavior that they know they hate. They try and keep reselling themselves. Well, maybe that's all right. Maybe, maybe I'm being too much, or maybe that's. It's okay because they think they're smart, they have this, I'm attracted to them, I have a good relationship with their friends and you know it adds up and it's like oh this is too painful to walk away with maybe I can just live with this really bad thing that doesn't meet my needs.

See, I'm I have come to believe that We, our emotions get very heavily involved in the people close to us, whether it's the person we're dating or in love with, whether it's our siblings, our parents, our best friend, even our boss. We, and even sometimes the people we employ. There are things that we may deeply want to change and may even get to the point of saying, I need to change this or I can't have a relationship with this person. But there gets to be a point in life where we've communicated calmly and in a neutral way what it is we would like to change about the dynamic where we have given many opportunities for that change to happen and space for that change to happen. And where we're, we have it confirmed over and over and over again that this change just appears to be too big of a shift for this person. Either the shift never happens at all or it It's never sustainable. It's a five minute shift and then they always end up snapping back into their default position and behavior. And when that happens, we have hard decisions to make. We can either say, I have to remove this person from my life or from the level of proximity to me, at the very least, that is making me this unhappy. You know, maybe they can't be in my inner circle. Maybe they can stay in my outer circle, and I can choose to have them as someone who's in my life, but who I don't rely on or who I don't have such an intimate connection with, but they can't stay where they are now. Or you can say, I am going to make peace with this part of this person because I am continuing to complain about something that I knew about, have known about for quite some time and is not changing. And I'm still here, which means the, the kind of the point of the problem has shifted over from them to me. That's always a truth of any relationship. There's a point at which the source of the problem actually jumps. It transfers from that person to us because that person is who they've been.

That's right.

That should no longer surprise us. They are who they've been. We're now the person who's continuing to complain about old information. And we have to then look at ourselves and say, what's. What's going on with me that I either can't leave this person and. can't seem to shift my or can't stay with this person and shift my expectation of them. Because if we stay with someone who won't change and we're unwilling to shift our expectation, then we become the reason we're complaining, which isn't excusing their behavior. In fact, it's just, you know, They could be a terrible person. But why is it we haven't adjusted our expectation of this person? What's going on with us that we're unwilling to revise our image of this person and of this relationship that we have with them? Why have we not lowered our expectation? Why do we still have speculative expectations that are entirely speculative because they've, we've never, we've never had those expectations met in the past, not sustainably. So we still speculate on their expect, on the expectation of what they can be. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that is, that's when we have to look at our ourselves. and say, I've looked, I've only got three options in life. It's either that they change to be more of what I need, or I leave, or I stay and I revise my expectations of this relationship in this person. People stay unhappy because they don't leave. they don't revise their expectations and that person doesn't change. So now they find themselves lodged in a state of unhappy paralysis. That's not designed to be a prescriptive kind of rant to anybody, but more a way to look at every. All of us should be analyzing our relationships and going, where am I unhappy? Because I've expected a change and continue to expect a change that's not forthcoming. But I'm not willing to leave or distance myself, and I'm not willing to revise my expectations of this relationship. That's a recipe for going mad. Yeah. so anyone listening right now who feels like they're going mad in a relationship, my guess is this will provide some light, some, some understanding of that situation and email us, by the way, if this is you and you, you know, maybe we can read a couple of stories about this next time. And if you've had an epiphany listening to this, email us at podcast@matthewhussie.com and and tell us, tell us what the epiphany moment was for you in listening to this. By the way, we have, well, there's a couple of things to mention. Firstly, there's a virtual retreat, our final virtual retreat of the year coming up, and you can go and learn about that at mhvirtualretreat.com that's mhvirtualretreat.com we are filling up fast on this virtual retreat, Steve, that we've had. We had yesterday, we did a webinar and we had 500 people apply for an appointment to talk about the virtual retreat. 500 in a day apply just to speak on the phone about the virtual retreat. Our team has been well and truly log jammed with We don't have 500.

People to take all those calls. They'll be on the phones all day.

We're a close-knit family unit. So it's, we have our cousin Billy who speaks to people, we have Emma, we have Charlotte, all beautiful kind people. But go to mhvirtualretreat.com and by the time this podcast comes out, it should have put a few more days between those 500 people and this podcast right now. So you have a shot at going and getting an appointment. And by the way, we also have, for those of you who want to go through a free 30-day experience, we have the 30-day confidence challenge that you can go to mhchallenge.com to go and be a part of and that has been getting really really interesting results for people over 30 days in their confidence. We give five specific challenges for you to do over 30 days so it's super practical and it is getting people results so go check that out at mhhchallenge.com well Steve is there before we kind of wrap this up in the next few minutes. Are there any, are there any books you've reading right now, movies you've watched recently, things that you're sort of engaging with, ideas you're engaging with where you think, oh, people should check this out.

On this topic or generally on any.

Topic on anything that's making you a better person right now, steve, or, or just bringing you ideas. Do you know what I saw last night? I saw Roadrunner, the Anthony Bourdain movie.

Oh, how was that? I want to see that.

How was it? Well, you know, Steve, and you and me both are huge, huge Anthony Bourdain fans. And it was. I. I think. I think it's pretty safe to say. there have been, there have been certain celebrity deaths that have, that have meant a lot to me. One of them was Steve Irwin when he died. The, those of you that don't know, that is the crocodile. What was it? What was his name? Crocodile Hunter. Yeah. Which I, I thought I was right in saying Hunter Jameson, but then I I realized his image actually was the complete opposite of that. It was like crocodile lover would have been more appropriate. But he, when he died, it meant a lot to me. Robin Williams, of course, I know that meant a lot to so many people, not least of which because it was just so at odds with the feeling that he brought to so many people. But Bourdain was, was a huge, huge one for me. I think it was probably the most upsetting because in my lifetime, I had followed Bourdain so closely and was so attached to his work and his shows. And I suppose his lens, the lens through which he appeared to view life, was so beautiful and not you know, relatable because it contained so much light and darkness. And, but you saw a guy who had a lot of darkness in him who seemed to still have this rebirth in his 50s and 60s that allowed him to, you know, go around the world and see all of these places and meet so many different people and have adventures and and I know that there was a kind of culturally Global inspiration he provided to people that it made you want to not just travel. It made you want to explore. It made you want to get out of your bubble. It made you want to go and interact with people. It made you want to try, try things that you hadn't tried before because you saw a person who was really living.

It was like a. It was like this. masterclass on the art of having an adventurous life.

Yeah. Yeah. And I suppose to some extent, it's like, in a way, like a lot of great TV shows and movies, there's a, there's an element of fantasy in there because the reality of, of Bourdain's life and you don't need to watch the the documentary to know this or to even Intuit this. The reality of his life was being on the road 250 plus days a year. And that is, you know, there's a, there's a line in the movie, and I'm not going to give away lots of the movie or anything like that because people can go see it, but there's a line in the movie where Someone, a musician who's close to Bourdain says, you know, it feels so good coming back home every time. It feels, and it feels so good leaving home every time. And it kind of reminds me of that Jerry Seinfeld joke in his latest special where he talks about, you know, you go out to a show in the evening, and while you're at the show, at some point you're thinking, oh, we should really get home soon. Yeah. And then you get home. And the whole joke is no one wants to be anywhere. You don't want to be at home. You want to get out and do something. Then when you're out doing something, you say, I can't wait to be home. And. And I'm sure much of Bourdain's life was. Was like that. It, you know, there's the. The people said of Bourdain that he was always rushing to get to the next place. And it's funny because we watched the fantasy of parts unknown is watching someone who's just in this perennial state of travel and loving life and loving meeting new people and so on. But you're not seeing what it's like when the cameras aren't on. You're not seeing the feeling of being in yet another hotel and not really wanting to be in the place you're in or you're not seeing the in-between scenes. You're just seeing the scenes they wanted to show you. You're not seeing the moments of loneliness. You're not seeing the moments of missing family. And in his case, missing a daughter or a wife or a girlfriend. And that's why we love parts unknown. But in a way, we'll never actually achieve the feeling of parts unknown. you know, we'll never be able to travel and quite, we'll always be in the same way that Bourdain was with Parts Unknown, always trying to kind of re-live the stories of the movies he'd watched. Because he actually didn't travel much till later in life.

Yeah, he didn't have much money for a long time, right?

No, and he liked movies. and he had a kind of encyclopedic knowledge of movies. And so, you know, around the world, he would, he started having fun using Parts Unknown to kind of re recapture and recapitulate scenes from movies he loved and that, you know, he would go to Vietnam and, and recapture Apocalypse Now. and be reliving scenes from it in his head. And that's him trying to capture an essence that his mind had bottled at one stage or another that in a way can never quite capture it, but it's always imitating it. And you and I, Steve, have traveled where we're trying to imitate parts unknown. So we're doing an imitation of an imitation. you know, and always trying to recapture something that we've seen, trying to, trying to bottle something that, that, you know, means something to us. And we've literally showed up in places and looked at, where did Bourdain go when he was in this place? What restaurants did he eat at? And then you go to those restaurants and you're trying to relive.

Sure. Many people have. Yeah, I was in, I was in Vietnam and went to the Obama Bourdain. noodle restaurant.

Right, right. And so that, you know, so much of life is, is in trying to. And I don't even mean in a detrimental way, in a derogatory way. So much of our lives is trying to capture the essence of something that is emotional to us, that means something to us, trying to recreate an experience in the world that we have. in our head, always trying to reach for some ideal, some romantic view of the world, a person, a place, a business, an idea, a creation. Even when we write a book, you know, we're reaching for some ideal we have in our head of what we want this book to sound like. Or when I create a show on tour, I'm always reaching for some idea I have of the show in my head.

Yeah, because you want to share the things that excited you when you saw them and you want to create them either for yourself or other people. You want to do the same.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and, and in a way, the show ends up being good if it kind of captures 60 of what's in my head or sometimes even less, but I there was a real darkness in him. Quite clearly there was a real darkness in him that followed him around or that reappeared frequently in his life. And I suppose it's important The movie that I watched last night in Roadrunner, which I would encourage everyone to go and see, is important from this point of view. Not as a way to say that having a romantic view of life is misguided or reaching for an ideal is childish. But to not think that anyone else is doing a better job of capturing that ideal than we are. To realize that we're all trying to reach for something transcendent, we're all trying to reach for something romantic. we're all trying to reach for something that has deep meaning or feeling to us. And when we can step out of the world of parts unknown, which is a, in many ways, an exaggerated, even though parts are known was loved for its authenticity because it felt raw. It was raw. But it doesn't mean it wasn't an exaggerated ideal of a place or of a person and an experience of traveling around the world. The movie I saw last night in Roadrunner was a good and important antidote to parts unknown and the ideal that that creates. It's a reminder to all of us that there is another side to that story. So that when we do our version of traveling around the world, even if it's not literally traveling around the world, when we go for our adventure, our ideal, we understand that there is always the other side to that coin. There's always the in-between scenes. There's always the scenes that never made it to the show that got left on the cutting room floor because they weren't interesting or because they were too real, too painful, because they didn't tell the right story. Those moments we can't avoid in our own lives. They don't get left on the cutting room floor of our own emotions because we live them all. We have to. We're forced to live all of that footage in our own lives. But when we see that footage in other people's lives and when we get, you know, in a way, I think the Roadrunner movie is as generous as Parts Unknown was to people. Even though it's raw and who knows whether someone like Bourdain would have ever wanted that to happen. Would any of us want to die and then have the unseen clips of our lives shown that we didn't choose to be out there. I don't know. Maybe not. We'll never know. But it's an act as generous as parts unknown. Maybe in some ways even more so because it gives us a real portrait of the struggle of the pain of the depression. of the darkness. And when we have a realistic picture of that in other people, we can not be so hard on ourselves. We can be more compassionate towards ourselves because we can say, oh, they, it's like that for them too. Even Bourdain wasn't living parts unknown. not the way we see it. Even he wasn't actually experiencing Parts Unknown the way we experience it. In a way, that's the generosity of Parts Unknown. The generosity of that gift is even he didn't get to experience it that way. We did, and that's a beautiful thing, but it must always be tempered by the other side of it. because otherwise we will always feel like we're somehow falling short of an ideal that other people have been able to reach, which is false because they haven't. They are living a real life just like we are. And I think that if we can understand that when the darkness comes for us, we'll be ready to meet it and to know that we're in good company. We're in the company of our heroes. We're in the company of the people we look up to. We're in the company of some of the best people on this earth. We're not alone in that darkness.

And we stop.

And hopefully that knowledge can stop people from getting to the point that Bourdain did, where he decided that that darkness was too much.

Yeah, the empathy and truth of seeing someone else going through it just kind of makes It makes it not seem like our unique fate when it's happening to us. And we think, why me? Like, why is this happening to me? It universalizes it.

But, you know, like I said, I love the fact that it didn't put an overly positive spin on everything. There's true darkness in that movie as well as light. And I would encourage everyone to go and see it.

And weirdly, the great legacy is of Bourdain that he actually did appeal to life lovers in a huge way and made people, a lot of people, it made them sort of want to love life more. Ironically, a lot of what those shows do is make people want to dive into the world more. And there's something really cool about that.

And no one should write off all of that because of the way it ended. And that's really, really important in life. We live in this infantilized version of images of people these days where everything is angels and demons. Everything is, someone's either wonderful and we should listen to everything they say, or they're corrupted and we should listen to nothing they say. And it's kind of pathetic. We should be looking at what's useful in everybody. The fact that Bourdaine took his own life doesn't change all of the beauty that he brought into the world, and it doesn't change the truth of that beauty. He accessed it. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to access it at the point that he took his own life. But it didn't mean that when he was accessing it at those points, that it wasn't real, that it wasn't true, that it wasn't something to aspire to. And I can't stand the kind of logic that people have where it's, you know, you could post a quote from a bourdain and, or anybody, and they're like, well, why would I take advice from someone who clearly couldn't even, you know, have it in them to stay alive or couldn't even avoid committing this crime or doing this? It's like, that is such an, that is such a childish way to look at the world.

I hate that.

People are complex. Life is complex, and we've all been the demon at different points in our lives. And we've always all been the angel or others. And hopefully we'll be the angel more times in our life than we'll be the demon. But it's in both is both are in us. And and let's hope the demon doesn't win for us. Let's work to make sure the demon doesn't win for us. But, you know, it doesn't. People can access truth and then not have that truth be accessible to them. when they need it most. And I believe that we'll never know why in that very moment, Bourdain decided to do what he did, only he knew that. But I do believe that in that moment, he wasn't able to access a truth that changed so many of our lives through him because he made it accessible to us. We gotta go, 'cause I gotta get to the airport, bro. But I'm on my way to the airport to meet a group of guys to do this physical challenge, and I'll tell you about it on the next podcast. For now, everybody go to mHchallenge.com and download or be part of that free 30-day confidence challenge that's been changing so many people's lives in really beautiful and measurable ways. And like we said, September the 24th to the 26th, the virtual retreat is coming up. if you are truly looking to change your life this year, I know of no better way to do it than the Virtual Retreat. Come join us for three days of coaching immersion. Go to mHVirtuAlretreat.com and if you liked this podcast, leave us a review on iTunes. It would mean the world to us and feel free to email us podcast@matthewhossy.com with any stories what this episode meant to you. I'd love on the next episode to read some comments and some things that people have said as a result of this episode. So please email us in. And Steve, if you could share those with me before the next episode, that would be wonderful. Thank you, sir.

Absolutely. Thank you so much. We will see you all very soon. Bye-bye.

Cheers, guys. I see the blog sites. Ookie Wook got a new wife, Shorty got a new boo. Yeah, love, beauty. I'm looking for love.