Why He Disappeared After Sleeping With You

We have to stop seeing it like I had sex with them, so I've already given my power away. It's not true, because it's not your power. Your power isn't something you could just give to someone in a moment of sex. Welcome back to the Love Life podcast with me, Matthew Hussey and Audrey Hussey opposite me.

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I have a question that came through that I want to talk about today. I will not share the name of the person who sent this in, but they sent a question I thought was really relatable and I was wondering what you thought about it, Matthew. She said, Can you speak to the male psychology behind sleeping together? Why do men withdraw so quickly even though they seem so smitten on the date? Why the hell do you do that?

Me personally, you're my kind. You know, look, I think the really pessimistic way of looking about it is looking at it is like men only want one thing. They're just trying to manipulate you into bed. And then once they've got what they want, they're not interested anymore. And there's, of course, a percentage of guys who are like that. But I also think that there's a lot of guys who on some level might even find themselves carried away with their own... They could be on a date and find it hard to separate how much of what they're saying and feeling, how smitten they're coming across, for example, how much of that is to do with how much they really like the person in front of them versus they're just attracted to the person in front of them.

So pause there a second. because I think it's really interesting. Is it the case, and I'm not, you know, I am generalizing in this instance because obviously men and women, it's not just one size fits all. There's plenty of women who will act, you know, in the same way that this person is describing. There's also plenty of men who, you know, would get really, really hurt if they slept with some, a woman and she said she wasn't interested. So it's not, you know, it is not one size fits all, but there is definitely a phenomenon because a lot of people reach out to us and they say, I was seeing this guy, it was going really well, you know, he was really interested. And then when we slept together, he pulled away. Or when we slept together, he stopped showing interest. Or he actually didn't want a relationship. You know, he was kind of talking in all sorts of ways before that. When you, you just said something that I want to pick up on, which is men not necessarily in those in those moments knowing whether or not they're truly interested in the person or whether they just basically want to sleep with them and that being the driving force behind all of their interest. So can you speak to kind of what sex means to men in the early stages of dating? And again, we're generalizing here, so just caveat this by saying we know this doesn't apply to everybody, but just to that kind of situation. What does sex mean to men in early dating?

I don't think sex means nothing to, to all men. I, you know, I, I think it would be easy to draw a stereotype like sex doesn't mean anything to men. So don't think that it does because you'll get yourself in trouble that way. You'll think that them having sex with you has some special meaning or creates a bond that it doesn't. That isn't true of all men. Some men absolutely value sex really highly. And for them, the idea, like sleeping with someone, is a very mean. I've got friends that people immediately come to mind who I know sex means a great deal, too. And for that reason, especially if they like someone, they're not necessarily rushing into bed with that person. And if they don't like someone, they're probably not trying to get into bed with that person in the first place. I do know guys like that. I also know plenty of guys for whom sex means absolutely nothing, where sleeping with someone for them is like a cup of tea. It's like a... Cup of tea.

What?

You know.

You have to elaborate on that. Sorry. What the hell do you mean by a cup of tea?

You fancy a cup of tea, but you don't, I don't know that you think of a cup of tea as like particularly meaningful. Unless you're Eckhart Tolle, in which case it's deeply meaningful.

Everything is meaningful.

A universe is contained within a cup of tea. But if you're the average man, well, not even the average man, I think there's a decent proportion of men for whom sex is just like, you know, it's a hunger, it's a desire, a thirst to be quenched, and then the You know, Pete Holmes in his book, Comedy Sex God, talked about masturbating to porn and how, you know, that feeling that he got after orgasm was to kind of almost be like, you know, what am I doing? Like, where am I? What's going on? Like that feeling of kind of almost, Just like, why did I do that? You know, that there was this, it felt so important before the fact. And then after orgasm, it was like, oh, God, I just want to close this laptop now and, you know, get out of here and go on with my day. And I think that that can happen for a lot of people with sex, where there's, even as the Perrell talks about it, this, like, desire a lot of people have, men and women, to immediately separate after sex. Like a lot of people feel that urge. And I think people can especially feel that urge if they don't have a real emotional connection with someone. And what the effort that they were putting in was driven just by a desire to have that need met, have that thirst quenched. And then once it is, there's this desire to separate because it's a kind of like, I don't know this person. I don't, who are you? What am I doing here? How do I get out? I don't mean that harshly, but I think that's a very common urge for a lot of people.

No, I think it is. I heard once, which I thought was really interesting, which is kind of what you're saying, that in the same way, I suppose it speaks to your cup of tea, common, in the same way that you might get hungry or be thirsty or, you know, crave something like that. Sex to a lot of men is almost one of those needs where there's just no emotion really behind it. It's like just being hungry and wanting to go and eat something.

Where I suppose- I think it can happen for some women too.

Of course.

Some women have that relationship with sex.

I think, I think, and I really, I totally agree. And I think the reason I'm honing on men in this particular way because this was asked by a female listener. And also we do get a lot of women who talk about, you know, this kind of pattern that seems to happen in dating where men put in all of this effort and then they pull away once they get sex. We don't really hear that from men. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I want to speak to that specific.

Well, and of course, there's a lot of that, you know, I hear from guys in the gay community, that experience that with other guys, where for them, sex means something.

So men are the problem, I take it. Yeah.

And they are encountering guys for whom sex is, you know, certainly on the surface, meaningless, or in the way they're having it, meaningless. And, you know, they're struggling to find a real relationship because they're coming across a lot of people for whom that intimacy doesn't seem to mean a lot beneath the animalistic urge.

So how do you protect yourself? This is my question because I think I agree with everything we're saying, but I just think it's really, really confusing because, you know, when you're in that moment where you are on a date with someone, they are sort of talking about the future and being like, oh, my mom would love you or stuff like that. I'm making this up. It's the kind of that people say. And, you know, they, they say all these things and they're so familiar and, you know, maybe like, There's an element of being familiar with you with other people that they're meeting when they're on a date and joking around all this stuff, which makes you go, oh, maybe it's safe to sleep with this person. You then decide they really like me and I'm gauging the fact that they like me on the fact that we've been on four dates, that they're saying all these things, that they're acting in this way. So I actually I feel comfortable enough to sleep with them. Meanwhile, the moment you do that, it's almost like Jekyll and Hyde. Next day, you're not getting as many messages. They pull away. They're no longer interested. how do you protect yourself from that kind of behavior?

Well, you can't account for everything in life, right? Like there is, I would say there is a difference between you go on one date with someone and you go home with them and then they suddenly go cold. That, to me, is like kind of, in a way, the one one extreme end of the spectrum. Not that I think that sleeping with someone on night one is extreme. I'm just saying like that's, there's one end of the spectrum where you're really taking your chances because you have no idea this person's intentions or whether they really want more. You're taking a massive chance that they've really gotten emotionally connected to you in that night.

Yeah, and you're treating sex in a casual way by having it with somebody that you've not had any of those conversations with.

Well, you may not be thinking you're treating it in a casual way. I think that's what's interesting is you may go on a date with someone and after four hours or five hours, you may feel very bought into this person. You may be quickly buying into this story that, oh my God, this is something incredibly special. And even though I wouldn't normally have sex with someone this quickly, something about this situation feels really right. And so I think it's entirely possible for someone for whom sex does mean a lot to tell themselves a story in a very short space of time.

For sure.

That allows them to go and do that. But that's a very dangerous thing to do because you're assuming that other person is bought into that story in that same way, and they may not be. there's more and more, I would argue, responsibility on the part of the person who is leading you down a path emotionally.

Yeah.

And continuing to see you and, you know, make you feel very invested. If their intention is to just get to that point so that they can sleep with you and then move on, then there's a share of, I don't know, if you want to say blame or there's a, you know, you kind of On some level, you have to acknowledge that you have played a part in someone's pain.

That's true. That's true. In that way, I think a little bit. There's a deceit to it because there's not enough. No, because...

But when I hear deceit, I think the part of that that sometimes I, this is where I have to be really careful because I feel like I don't want the responsibility should always have to be on us to be like, Do I wanna do this at this stage? And am I okay if nothing comes of this? Am I okay with doing it at this stage? I think we have to empower ourselves to say that because otherwise we're taking away our own power and I don't think we should ever give someone else that power. And I also think that this is where it gets really tricky, right? 'Cause you could be going on multiple dates with someone who never says that they want anything more. who never says that they're in the market for a relationship, who is only ever hanging out with you kind of casually, and has never said that sex means anything significant to them. But in our minds, because we've seen them four times and hung out a bunch, we're starting to attach a lot of meaning to it. But there's still a bit of an assumption there that they're attaching the same. meaning to it. And I do think that the higher the stakes are for us around different levels of intimacy, the more we have to take it upon ourselves to communicate, you know?

Yeah.

What does sex mean to you?

I love that you're saying that about the, you know, empowering yourself. to you're not at the mercy of somebody else if you are able to communicate what sex means to you, what you kind of expect from being intimate, you know, what you see tomorrow looking like after you're intimate and, you know, the next week and the next month looking like. I think being able to have these conversations and in a way, you know, if you're not able to have these conversations, maybe, and you know that you're somebody who gets very attached if you get physical with someone. I know I'm like that, you know, I'm somebody who isn't capable, has never been capable, obviously now we're together, but in my past I was never, ever capable of having casual sex. I just wasn't one of those people. And so it's about knowing yourself well enough to know if that person never called you back, how would you feel? And if the answer is I would be devastated, but I still don't feel comfortable enough to have that conversation, then maybe I shouldn't sleep with them because that's not a gamble I'm willing to take. And I love what you said about, you know, I think it's so, so important about empowering ourselves to recognize that we can make those decisions. Yeah.

And it's a funny thing, isn't it? We have to ask ourselves why. And I've heard you say something like this before, but if I don't feel comfortable enough to have this conversation, then why is it I would feel if, if sex means something very significant to me, why would I feel comfortable jumping into bed with someone and engaging in this act that is really meaningful to me?

Yeah, for sure.

You know, there's a weird like paradox to that, right? Like I'm not comfortable enough to have, yeah, they do get carried away. There's absolutely no way.

We all do, you know, in moments and it's exciting and you just really like someone that you're more likely to get carried away and be like, oh, I wouldn't have done that if I wasn't swept up in something.

Yeah. And. But that's where I think, again, accountability. We have to have an incredible level of self-awareness around what. How has this made me feel in the past when I just get swept away?

What.

What are my emotions the next morning?

Yeah.

The next day. How does it make me feel? And if the answer is it doesn't make me feel good, it makes me feel anxious, it makes me feel like I wish I had clarified our intentions beforehand, or I wish I had clarified with this person what sex means to them, if that's been the answer nine times out of 10, then it's not going to have a different answer this time around. And that self-awareness can make us go, oh yeah, I know. It's like drinking, right? It's like a certain point in life, a lot of us realize that there's a moment where we're drinking where we might have got swept away into the third or fourth or fifth drink. And there's a certain drink that it tips over into, I'm gonna feel terrible tomorrow.

You're really good at that. We'll go out for drink. We don't drink very much, but when we go out and we have a few drinks, I'm like, let's have more. And you're like, you're one drink away from having a hard time tomorrow and being too drunk tonight. And I'm always resentful in the moment, but the next day I'm like, thank you so much.

Yeah. I don't have the same ability with food. I haven't developed the same ability with food. I still will overeat and then go home and regret it. So I I I. But I am good with that. And alcohol.

Yeah, you are.

But I, you know, when you do that enough times and you're, there comes a point where you're, you're like, How do I feel afterwards? I think that life is made up of those things. What when I do it after I've done it makes me say, I'm so glad I did that. And what when I do it after I've done it makes me say, I wish I didn't do that. And if you pay attention to those things that after you've done them make you say, I wish I hadn't done that, even though in the moment you really wanted to, The feeling afterwards can be your guide, the feeling that you're trying to avoid afterwards. We had a woman on our retreat who said that when she started being able to say no to people for sex on a first date, which historically she hadn't done, and she would always wake up feeling, I wish I hadn't done that, even though in the moment she felt like she wanted to. afterwards, when she started saying no.

She.

Would wake up and be like, oh, my God, I'm so glad they did that. And again, I don't want. This is not. This episode has nothing to do. Nothing I'm saying has anything to do with, like, whether it's good or bad to do. To have sex with someone.

There's no judgment.

Knowing yourself. Yeah, it's knowing yourself.

Some people are okay with it, and other people aren't. And I think, yeah, we just have to know where you fall on that Spectrum. I have a question for you, though. because I think I'm hearing all of this. I'm like, yep, great. But there's two things that are coming out to me. The first one is it seems on the outside anyway, looking in, that there are some men who know that they're never wanting anything intentional with you, who are well aware from the first date that they are never going to want to be in a committed relationship with you, yet they never disclose that. They continue to kind of soft love bomb you and show interest and do all those things. And there is a kind of, like, unspoken thing where I think they know that if they were upfront about that, then they wouldn't necessarily, they would lose out on the opportunity to sleep with you. So they're not upfront about it. Do you think that's fair? Do you think that happens a lot? Because it seems from the outside looking in as a woman, and as, and I know this, listener who sent in this question and exactly what she's feeling, it does feel that way.

I think for guys that do that, I think there is a level of evolution that a mature person with a high degree of empathy should reach where they say, you know, look, if you meet someone at a bar and you end up going home together, do I think that you need to tell that person beforehand just so you know, I don't want a relationship? No, of course not. If you've been seeing someone for multiple dates and you know you don't want anything, and it's quite clear to you that they are dating with intention, do I think that you should mention to that person that that's not what you're in the market for before the. Before you have sex with them. Yes. And I think that a lot of people have hurt a lot of people, myself included. I'm not trying to put myself on any kind of pedestal here and be righteous. You know, I've hurt people the same way in my life. And when I look back on those things, I look back with some regret at having not been. more transparent. I also think because I believe in giving people things they can use and in a way, me talking about what people should do doesn't help the person that's on the receiving end of a situation like that.

But it does help to hear that, you know, women aren't crazy when they feel that way.

Yeah.

And that they are getting a completely different version of someone on a date versus afterwards because it can make you feel crazy, right? You're like, you know, so I think it does help to hear that it's not in our heads. No, I certainly don't think it.

I wouldn't, I would never say it as in, no, no, I'm not saying.

You did, but I'm saying I think it's actually going to be helpful to people to be like, thank you. You know, some people do do that, as you say, who not necessarily terrible people, bad people, whatever, just people who aren't evolved. and who are quite frankly being selfish.

Yeah, I think it comes down to, look, there's clearly a level of manipulation that's much more insidious where you're pretending you want something you don't just to get to that point and so on. But I write about in the book, the much more common type of person is the avoider, is the person who just won't bring up the fact that they don't want a relationship. because they know that it probably, there's a high chance it will affect whether that person sleeps with them.

Yeah.

And by the way, like, there's a lot of guys who don't feel that sex is very readily available that find themselves in a situ. I'm not saying this is right, but it's the truth. Who feel like They, like, if we described, like, for a lot of, for some people, sex is like a hunger that they wanna satiate and they're the kind of person that doesn't get a meal very often, then that person has to have a high degree of integrity to find that they're in a situation where they can have sex with someone. and they're now going to potentially blow it by saying, just so you know, I don't want a relationship. Just so you know, I'm not looking for anything because in their mind, they're like, I don't know when this could happen again.

Yeah, but don't get another person involved in that because then the other person has to recover from the fact that they were used.

I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying that's what you're dealing with. yeah, like, I don't. None of that is right.

It's.

Yeah, that's the world you're living in.

And.

And the reason I'm saying that is because it's. It behooves everyone who is being intentional in their love lives to take it upon themselves to communicate what things mean to them, what they want. and under what kind of assumptions they are moving forward. And I don't think most people are flat out liars. I don't. I think they will avoid uncomfortable situations, but I don't think the majority of people will say that they really want a relationship when they don't.

I think that's such a good point. And I think you have to be ready to find out in an elegant way how where somebody stands, where the person in front of you stands in terms of wanting a relationship and where that, you know, what they want in life right now. You said something that I just really want you to say here because I remember when you said it to me, I was like, oh my God, that's so interesting. This idea of not never assuming that sex is going to make somebody like you more. Can you speak a little bit to that? Because I think For again, generalizing, and I know I'm generalizing, but I do think I can speak for myself here and I know a lot of other women, this writer who this person who's written in sex makes you more attached. So if you sleep with someone, you actually feel closer to that person. You feel more invested in that person. And it does solidify the maybe, you know, if the sex was good and you feel connected and you had a great time on top of it and you like this person, it makes you feel more connected to them. that's obviously how a lot of women feel after sex when they're being intentional. But you said there was something very different in the experience of certain men. Can you speak to that?

Yeah.

And I want to emphasize certain men because there are. I, I feel like I have to keep banging the drum for guys who aren't like this because there are a lot of guys out there who are not like this.

No, and I think it's really good that you.

Someone who doesn't think that there's different. there's kind of generalizations that can be made between the sexes, because I think there are some generalizations that if you were just looking for a survival guide, you could include. But there are some men for whom they will sleep with a woman who's absolutely not being intentional, who is just using him. He's just like her bit on the side right now while she looks for something else. And those guys get steamrolled. And they do, they did sleep with that woman and find that, like, oh, my God, I'm so into her. I really, really like this woman. I really want this woman. And, and, you know, he becomes this person that she just strings along. You know, you hear that story from guys a lot. So, you know, women out there who feel like they're getting strung along, I do want you to know that there are many guys who are having the same experience with women who are just using them until they find something better, you know, or whatever they perceive as better. But for the guys that don't operate that way, for the guys that are just looking for sex.

Do you think it's majority of guys or do you think, because I think it's maybe not majority. Maybe I'm skewed by obviously, you know, everybody that writes in and talks about it, but it does feel like there are plenty of men where sex doesn't really mean that much to them.

I think it's, I think It, you could say it's the majority of guys until those guys meet someone they fall head over heels for. And then all of a sudden, I think that many of them are just as capable of feeling hurt and feeling like, you know, I slept with that person. I really like them. I don't want this to go away. I don't want this person to go away. Like, how do I hold on to them? And feeling like I don't know how to hold on to them. You know, she feels so elusive. She feels, you know, difficult to hold on to. I do think that that you could say that a lot of guys have the experience of sex meaning nothing to them until they meet someone who pushes their buttons. By the way, the person who pushes his buttons might push them for the wrong reasons.

Right?

They might push their buttons because they're unavailable, because that guy that activates that guy's wound, that guy's trauma, and she looks like a person that he wanted back in high school but couldn't get, and, you know, or she seems like that kind of person, and he thinks, oh my God, this is it. This is the kind of person that will complete me, and then finds that she's really hard to hold on to, or she's just messing him around, but keeps running after her anyway. You know, I think when someone comes along that pushes his buttons, he's just as capable of becoming romantic about all of those things and feeling absolutely crestfallen that she doesn't want to sleep with him again, that she doesn't want to see him again, that she slept with someone else the week after, you know, so I. There's a lot of that. But will I say, you know, do I think that. there's a lot more men who can sleep with someone and treat it like it was just, you know, it was just two bodies rubbing together.

It was tea.

Now it's over and that was that. Yeah, I do. But you see, and I do think that it's really a mistake to think that their feelings are going to be moved forward by having sex. I think that is a massive, massive mistake. I think you have to look at where you are now and say, are we at a place of real intimacy? Are we at a place of real connection? Does this feel like something? Is that validated when I talk to them?

Yeah, it's almost like sex is supposed to solidify a pre-existing connection, not create a connection.

Yeah, exactly. It's just an an organic progression of a connection, but it absolutely shouldn't be taken to be the thing that will create one. And it's why, again, it's why we have to be the ones communicating in a very open way. We have to be a little bit more proud of our relationship with these things instead of hiding it and being like, oh, but what if it scares them away? Or what if I show that sex means a lot to me and I just. you know, you. And you can be honest. Like, be real. I'm not.

If.

If this is true, you could say, hey, look, I'm. Sex means a lot to me. I'm not a religious person, and I'm not someone who believes in, you know, waiting and waiting and waiting, but it means something to me. And I'm not the kind of person who would be doing that with someone that I didn't feel a real connection with and I didn't feel was really open to seeing where it went.

Yeah.

Is that where you come from with this? Are you, you know, like, I'm, I don't know if you and I are right for each other, but I know that I wouldn't be doing this with you if I didn't think that there was real potential here to explore. Do you feel the same?

Or you say, I'm not in them.

Are you not looking for a relationship? You know, you have to be willing to say that. And you have to say it as matter of fact as, you know, back when I did a safe sex campaign for Trojan Condoms, It was the biggest problem, the biggest problem in unsafe sex was people not being willing to ask a guy to put on a condom. Or let me rephrase that, to tell a guy, I'm not doing this unless you put on a condom. That was a huge problem.

Yeah, of course.

People feeling like, I can't say that.

Yeah, because a lot of women don't feel like they can speak out. And I think, I mean, that's a whole other conversation.

But that's the the part that has to change is I'm not ashamed of this. It's, it's, this for me is like, yeah, this will be really fun to do in that context, let's say. But I'm absolutely, I would never do that unless someone, unless you wore a condom. Absolutely not. It's not, that's my standard.

You know, I think something that's also a good way of saying it, if, if, again, this is something that speaks to you for a lot of people, it won't be necessary for them, but something that I think is quite a useful thing that you can say is before you get intimate with someone, you can express that you don't feel comfortable sleeping with someone who's also sleeping with multiple people. Therefore, as much as you want to do it, you want to wait until you actually feel like, you know, you're both going, oh, this could kind of be something. Let's focus on each other.

I love that.

And I think it's completely fair enough because, you know, a lot of people, like, again, I, I am of the opinion that I wouldn't feel comfortable when I was single to sleep with someone who was sleeping with multiple people. And that is because it just wouldn't sit right with me and it would make me feel uncomfortable. And so I think that, I think that that is absolutely fine to communicate. And the people who are turned off by that, by the way, are not people who are being that intentional.

And people who are being intentional will actually be that what you just said will be very attractive. Yeah. People who are being intentional will see that as a green light.

Yeah.

They're not going to hear that and go, oh, red flag. She's, you know, like she values intimacy. They're going to hear that and go, oh, wow, I really respect that. And she's being highly intentional and she's brave and she's confident and she knows what she wants. She's not saying it. It's like nothing you just said is aggressive. Nothing you just said is like comes across as high maintenance. It literally just comes across as someone who values this thing. It's special to you.

It's something you're comfortable with.

Yeah.

And again, I feel like we've done a lot of this, but this won't speak to everybody because there'd be plenty of women out there who are like, I don't feel like I need exclusivity before sleeping with someone. And that's totally cool. I think you just have to go back to what you were saying. Be honest with how you feel and where you are and what you will feel if this person disappeared tomorrow after sleeping with them and then make your decision based on that. And if you don't know and you want to find out, communicate.

And by the way, even if you don't need exclusivity before sleeping with someone, if you're one of those people you just talked about, remember you can reset the boundaries anytime you want. if you end up saying to someone, hey, look, the truth is I really like you. And I think we have something really interesting. And I don't, you know, if we're going to continue to do this, I want it to be because we actually want to see where it goes and we're doing it to the exclusion of other people. That is something you get to say after your fifth time of sleeping with someone.

Yeah, that's true.

You don't, it's not like, oh, I did it now. Now this is the, now this is what's expected. Because a lot of people feel that, like, don't ever let someone kind of make you feel like they should be entitled to what they've been getting just because they got it already.

I love that.

That, and that's another way you hold on to your power, is that you didn't, we have to stop seeing it like I had sex with them. So I've already given my power away. That's not true. true because it's not your power. Your power isn't something you can just give to someone in a moment of sex. Your power is something you have. You can either claim it or not, but you have it. It's yours. So at any point you can say to someone, yeah, we did that. It was fun. Own it. It was fun. I don't. I wouldn't take it back. I don't regret it. But if we're going to keep doing this, you know, the truth is, I already feel kind of attached to you. I already feel like I like you. If we're going to keep doing it, it's For me, it has to be because this means something and because we're actually giving this a go. And if you're not there, that's also okay. I enjoyed the time we spent together, but...

I'm happy to carry on dating, but I'm not happy to do that. Yeah, I'm happy to do that. Exactly, until you feel like you're happy to just focus on me.

Let us know what you think. Email us podcast@matthewhussie.com what did this bring up for you? in any way healing for you? Did it help you clarify anything? Has it made you shift your feelings around how you would communicate in the future? Let us know podcast@matthewhussie.com We've been enjoying reading your emails and in future episodes, I'd love to read out more of your emails as well. And if you haven't already seen our free training, which is really a foundational training that I created along with Audrey, to help anyone who wants to avoid the casual dating trap, find someone special and create real momentum that leads to a relationship. We put together this free training called Dating with Results that you can watch right now at datingwithresults.com All you need to do is give your email address and I'll get you instant access to that training. It's called Dating with Results and you can find it at datingwithresults.com www.loveis.com. thank you so much for listening or watching. If you saw this on YouTube, thank you, Audrey, for a really great conversation today.

I loved everything you said. It was so interesting.

You too. And I love your kind of script for how to have the conversation with someone. I thought that was really great. We will see you next time in the next episode of love life. Be well. friends and love life.