Why You Choose the Wrong Partner

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Most people are invisible to you cuz all you see is this very narrow group of people that fit into this idea. All right, welcome everybody to the Love Life show.

We are gonna talk to you about that stuff. I didn't think of a rhyming times.

I would have gone with bro.

Oh well that's, that's there forever now. Hello everyone.

Hello. Welcome to the Love Life podcast with me, Matthew Hussey with my brother Stephen Hussey.

Hello friends, fancies, pickles and pears.

And Jamison Jordan.

Hello. I never know how to follow up, Steven.

Well, it's always. Yours is always so terse.

Well, you don't need to actually introduce me at all. I am just a director in the background.

You're not background. You're not background. I, I've told you this. I tell you this every weekend.

You're very much foreground now, Jay.

All right, well, thanks guys.

I'll tell you who is in, I'll tell you who is in the background though.

Go on.

It's Miss Audrey sitting in the back there, back of the class.

Hi.

Sorry.

So we got Audrey in the back there.

Just, you know, it's good that there's like another high. That's even. It was even meeker than my hello.

That was meeker than your hello.

Hey, what's up, Jameson?

Oh, less meek by the second. Well, hello, Audrey.

Hi guys. Hi everyone.

We're all coming from different places. Me and Jameson are in la. Audrey's in London, Stephen's out in Essex, in England, out in the sticks. We're very excited to be talking today about how we choose partners. Have you ever had that doubt in your mind as to whether you're going to make the right decision? You have got someone in front of you that maybe has some good qualities, some things you're not sure about. Maybe they seem like the person that you've always thought about, the person you've always imagined. Or maybe they differ from that person and that's making you question whether you should keep investing and going down the road with them. And of course, when we keep deciding to write people off, we end up feeling like maybe we're the one who's too picky, maybe we're too fussy, maybe our family starts putting pressure on us that we don't ever seem to settle on someone. We're going to tell a story today of someone who came to me for coaching recently, and I think this story is quite illuminating about some of the interesting conundrums we find ourselves in when picking somebody to date. So we'll be talking about that today. Steve, before we jump into that, can we maybe have a little itunes review?

Yes, please. So we have an iTunes review from Steph Pickles. Now, I feel like that may be her giving us a wink. Her or him, I don't know. But I feel like that's not not their real name. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Matt.

No, Steve, it sounds like your name merged with Pickles. So yeah, I would. I would argue it does feel like too much of a coincidence.

It's a great moniker. Well, Steph Pickle says this podcast gives me all the feels. Matt, Stephen and Jameson have such a fun and entertaining dynamic. Matt's advice is so authentic and from the heart. It challenges me to be better, do better, and step into dating as my best self. It gives you real life examples of what to do or not to do in today's dating pool and most importantly, it gives me hope. There are some really great people still out there waiting to connect. The confidence factor and learning core confidence really resonated with me. It's actually shocking how many of us ladies are taught to be self conscious from such a young age. I never saw myself as lacking confidence. I just thought I was shy, reserved, button up, etc. After really digging deep, I've discovered many self sabotaging traits that I need to unlearn and I'm so glad Matthew and Steven are here to guide me through this journey. Not just in love, but in all aspects of life. It's important to grow and be open to change and I hope I find the same in a partner one day. P S I like that Steven calls us listeners. Pickles. I love this episode and can really relate to it. Thank you for this discussion. I do believe my inner child is healing. Healing is integral to making better choices and manifesting a happier life alone or with a partner.

Can I just ask Steve, are you? Firstly, thank you. Thank you to Steph Pickles or whatever the real name is behind Steph Pickles. Steve, I have to assume by this point you're only picking reviews that say Pickles because We've had multiple podcasts running now where every review you read compliments you on the use of the word pickles in reference to our listeners.

Well, I can assure you that's not the case. And I have an inbox as well. And now, or occasionally, every sort of fifth email I get will just say, I love being called a pickle. And then I'm like, what's that one doing in there? And I have to sort of remind myself that we've put that out there because occasionally people just. People just email me to tell me they love being called a pickle.

I can't. I'm going to ban it for the next. For the next episode. We can't. The. The review can't reference your use of the word pickles straight off itunes or I'm gonna start choosing the ones to read.

Okay, we'll see what itunes throws up.

I just love the poetic justice, the poetic irony of all of this, which is just this all started from you trying to get Stephen to stop using the word pickles. And it's just now you're just bombarded with pickles every episode.

Gasoline on the fire. Well, I thank you for that review. Please leave us more reviews on itunes. We love reading them. They mean a lot to us and they help spread the word about the podcast. I also want to just make sure everyone knows that the Love Life Club is a place where you can come and get real coaching from us every single month. If you haven't signed up for your 14 day free trial yet, go to askmh.com and join us for live Q&As, master classes. Surprise special guests that we would never have access to in such a personal way outside of the Love Life Club. If your love life is a priority for you this year, if your confidence is a priority for you this year, if this year you want a year of massive growth, the Love Life Club is an amazing place to follow a program that helps you do that. Join us over@askmh.com and of course, today's story actually comes from one of our Love Life Club members. She said, I am in my 40s, I'm looking for love, and I find myself in the strange situation of not really knowing what I want to do next in my life. And she said, the reason this is surreal for me is that for years I've been in a situation where I'm very career driven, I know what I want, and I have made good money and I've always found it unattractive if someone tells me they're not sure what they want to do next. In fact, so unattractive that the last person that she dated, she decided wasn't right for them because he found himself in a stage of his life where he was questioning what his path was. She said, I now find myself in that uncomfortable position of being in that situation that I would normally find unattractive. She also went on to say that she is looking for someone who, like her, is entrepreneurial, driven, and makes a certain amount of money because she makes a certain amount of money. So I obviously had an answer for her. But I'm wondering, Steven, what your initial thoughts are in a situation like this where someone has predetermined that the kind of person that they will be attracted to is this very specific set of things, which is something, on some level, we're all guilty of at some point in our lives.

Yeah, I. I've said before, I think it's fine to have. We're all going to have some things that we're really, really into. I mean, we spoke a while ago about how I. Which. Which evokes some response from our listeners, but I said I would want to be with someone who's a reader, a partner. And some people were like, hell, yeah, Steve. I agree. I'm a reader, and it's really important to me. And some people are like, you're being too judgmental. Like, why it's not such a big deal. Why. Why do you think? Like, why do you have this arrogance that someone has to be a reader.

And has your thinking evolved on that since Stephen? Or do you remain in the camp of don't call me unless you read?

I think. I think what we discussed on it is accurate, is that it's about the traits it shows about someone. It's.

It's.

Do I want someone who is devoted to lifelong curiosity, learning, you know, exposing himself to new ideas? Yes. I don't think I would be happy with someone who wasn't a learner. If you want to go to that, like, okay, I do like sitting and reading a physical book, and that's a lovely activity for me. It's not that I need to look over in the corner and see someone else doing the same thing, although that might be fun to do together, but it is. It's a trait. And so I get with this person who's saying she's ambitious, she's entrepreneurial. I. I think we all go through stages of life where we are very judgmental of other people. And I think you definitely see a lot of people in their 20s do this as well, where they feel such a level of unearned certainty about everything they are and what they're never going to do. And it's like, you know when you say, like, I'll never be like that couple, I'll never do what my parents did, I'll never do what that person does. And you know, it's like life humbles you in all sorts of ways. There's lots of things you end up doing or mistakes you end up making that you never thought you were capable of. So I think we do need, we need some humility about this. I don't think it's wrong to know that. See, we don't always want people like us. That's the issue, isn't it? Just because I, I consider myself a driven person and have always been ambitious and quite achievement oriented but I don't, I don't think someone else I was with would have to be just like me. I don't think that's the case. Right.

Do you?

Even though I value, I value someone who is, I value someone who grows and is committed to some level of their own, what they consider successful, like someone who goes after what they want. But it doesn't need to be the same way that I do or in the same kind of actions.

Jameson, is there anything that you once upon a time told yourself was important to you that just ceased to be important at all?

Well, I don't know if it ceased to be important at all, but it is interesting the way Steve put it about being humbled. I think one of the things that really humbles me is when I think about how much I ended up being a lot like my parents. And I was just thinking about that where it's like, yeah, I told myself I'd never be in this kind of relationship, where I told myself I would never act like this in this situation. And then you do catch yourself as you get a little bit older, like, oh, that's literally a phrase my dad used to say or something. And I do think that's humbling. But I think what you're getting at, Matt and Steve, which is a piece of advice I heard you say before Matt, which is like, can that other person scuba dive? So look, for me there's like I one thing that since I got married I probably watched a lot less documentary films than before I got married. And I don't want to say documentary films aren't important to me, but apparently not that important. Like I do still. So there's two points here. One, I Like it when, you know, I like the differences between me and my wife and, like, I like the different taste. I don't. I didn't need to go for someone who is exactly like me. But there is always that thing we go back to which is like, can they scuba dive that person?

Explain that for us. Jameson, what was that, what was that metaphor about?

Right, so the scuba dive metaphor is maybe this person doesn't like documentaries just out of the gate. This is not their natural inclination to watch this thing on genocide in Indonesia, you know, but can that person put on some scuba gear and breathe underwater? It's not their natural environment underwater. But will they scuba dive with you because they know it's important to you? And, you know, this was made clear to me over the weekend, actually. I was speaking to an old college friend of mine. I was out with a beer with my friend Kamal, and my wife was there. And, you know, we just asked Kamal what dating is like right now for him, and he's deep in the art world and he was just like saying, like, he just really wants someone who understands how important being a part of the art world is to him and his career and just his everyday life. And I was just looking at Bianca and we were just kind of laughing because we just were both excited about the moment where he met someone who was not into art at all. Because that's how we know that's, oh, Kamal's messed up. He's in love. Because she's not into art at all. Now she needs to scuba dive, most likely for his career or whatever. She needs to be able to work the room at like these art parties or whatever he goes to. But I don't know, there is something interesting about like that type of compatibility where it's not ready made or natural, but there's that person who's willing to understand the environment that's important to you and willing to scuba dive in it with you for you.

I think it's really sweet when someone. I think it is one of the sweetest things someone can do is do something that you like doing. Pretending to like something is never a good, a good idea, but being, being someone who knows that something is important to your partner and therefore asking them about it, showing curiosity is. That's a very sweet thing to do. God knows Audrey has no doubt, long since passed the point of having. Having had enough about talking about Brazilian jiu jitsu. But she asks me, and when I get to a new level, she gets excited for me.

I do, but you're very Sweet as well. I think passion is incredibly attractive. So when someone's really passionate about something and they really care about it, it's just there's something very sort of something attractive about that.

Well, the funny thing is if, if you're Kamal and you want someone who understands, in his words, that it's, you know, how, what with the words, how important it is to be part of the art world.

Yeah. Just how sort of like breakfast, lunch and dinner, he needs to be researching, learning, talking about art in order to stay, like, on top of his game.

So he wants someone who understands why he spends so much time thinking about, focusing on living and breathing that world.

Yeah, right, right.

Which, as Audrey says, helps. If you're good at selling it, if you're good at being passionate about it and being excited about it, and you can sort of just infect someone with your passion, then that can go a long way.

It's tricky though, right, because you can end up that. And I don't know your friend at all, Jameson, so I, I don't say this about them, but you can end up with one person very much turning the whole relationship on them, and they're like, this is my obsession. I live for this. And the other person might be like, yeah, well, I. I've got things I'm really into as well. And I. I can't live for your obsession and something I love as well. So does it. Does it end up being, like, quite a selfish demand?

I suppose Kamau is getting at finding someone who's understanding of the amount of time he spends there and how involved he is with that world. And look, that's fine, but we have to recognize that what we're asking for, you have to say, well, what would I say if someone else asked for that? Which they might. Am I willing to give that to somebody else? And a lot of people who say, I need someone who understands that XYZ is so important to me, they get real quiet when that's flipped on them. They're like, well, they're going to need you to understand how important this other thing is to you that you have no interest in. And that's when you realize whether you've got something that's mutual or you've just got one person who thinks that what they do is the most important thing in the world and someone needs to just fit into that. That's not a team. So I, you know, I think that's. That's all interesting. I find that we tend to not always even realize the ways that we might Be restricting ourselves. You know, Steve, there was an interesting phrase you used where it was, you know, I want to find someone who goes after what they want. Right. Even sort of embedded within that is a sort of almost like an ambitious mindset. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. It's a. There's a. There's an ideology or a view of life there which.

Right.

Which some people don't share.

Right. But it might not actually even be important to you in a partner. It's important that a partner recognizes that in you and appreciates and respects and perhaps even celebrates that quality in you. But this is, I think what's interesting is that we sometimes make the switch from. I think a very common thing in choosing a partner is that we turn the language of they need to appreciate this part of me into they need to be that part of me.

Right.

I don't actually know how important. And again, I'm not putting you on the spot, Steve, but I don't actually in reality know how important it would be to you to find someone who, quote, goes after what they want. I think that finding a champion of you is important, but I don't know how important it is that they actually have that kind of drive or mindset themselves.

Well, here's it. Digging deeper. Here's what I think when people, like what I said or what the person who asked the original question said. She said she wanted someone who. It was something very ambitious, Right.

Or she wanted someone who was an entrepreneur who was driven and ambitious. Right.

Who.

Who also made money like her.

So if I was psychoanalyzing a bit deeper, what I think it might be is it's if you identify as someone who doesn't want to live like an unfulfilled life, or you want to live at a certain. You don't want to be someone who is afraid to step into, like, something, you know, you don't want to be. Identify as someone who hides from life or who doesn't, you know, if something you are passionate about, you want to think I'm the kind of person who would have the courage to go with that. And I think you, you the fear of perhaps the questioner, and perhaps what I'm saying about myself is that I don't. I wouldn't want to end up with someone who I thought was happy or complacent or was happy to just not. Not fulfill anything they wanted. Like, if they did want certain things or they did have a vision for their lives, you wouldn't want to be with someone who lacked that Passion or that drive or that, you know, that. That determination to do what made them happy or to do what fulfilled them. You know what I mean? That's kind of giving it generous language. But, you know, I think we think, oh, I want them to make money like me. I want them to have this job or do this. But I think in some way we just mean, like, I want them to have certain traits that I feel. I don't want to live with someone who has a complacent attitude to life.

You know, that's a. Certainly a generous interpretation. Sorry, Audrey.

I was just gonna say to dig, you know, to dig one step deeper. And I'm not talking about you, Steve, but just in general, people. I think compassion for others tends to stem from self compassion. And if you're being incredibly hard on yourself as to what you'd like to achieve, where you should be in life, you know, you know, how much you should be earning, what you should look like, all the rest of it, I think you're going to be inherently hard on other people when it comes to those same traits. And so it's almost, for me, when I think of her situation, I almost see it as a kind of direct reflection of the pressure she's put on herself in terms of what she deems important for herself, for her to feel good about herself and worthy and. And everything else.

Yeah, there is some form of fear in that. You're fearing. Yeah. Perhaps you're fearing if you lacked it yourself or if your partner lacked it, perhaps it would reflect something on you.

Perhaps.

I suppose. I suppose that the. The parts of yourself, the way you feel really comfortable, you feel incredibly. They're just sort of second nature to you. Right. It's just very fluid. You don't actually necessarily crave in other people in the same way. I think it's always the ways in which other people can make you feel better about the parts of yourself that you're working on and you're trying to improve and you have a drive towards. I think those tend to be the things that we then become highly critical of other people. It's a little bit like when we meet someone and they have a personality trait, a negative personality trait that's similar to one of our negative personality traits. And we feel instant contempt towards them because they exhibit something that we really struggle within ourselves. And I think there's a lot of that that goes on in dating and certainly a lot of that in this situation with this woman, I think, which.

Is why it's a beautiful point, and it's why I think one of the truly exquisite experiences to be had in love and one of the things that cracks us open to a new type of person altogether is when we find someone who may be vastly different from us but is incredibly accepting of us. Because when you find someone who truly accepts us and isn't asking us to be something else, we start to value that in that person more than any of the other silliness that we've said we have to have. That starts to become, I think, that we spend so much time trying to, quote, kind of find someone like who I am, when what we're really craving is someone who has an acceptance of who I am. And I think we confuse the two. And when we find someone who truly accepts how we are, we suddenly start developing a very different level of acceptance of who they are, because it's a very contagious gift. When you get that gift from somebody, you want to give that gift back to them.

I love this. It reminds me, though, I was laughing to myself because it reminds me a little bit of Seinfeld. Wasn't there an episode of Seinfeld where he falls for a girl? He's like, what is it about her? I just really like her. And she was just like him. And then he just runs the arc of the episode. Got him us from years ago. He runs the arc of the episode. By the end, he, like, hates her because he realizes he drives himself crazy, too, or he would drive himself crazy.

That's the thing you. It becomes, you know, when we're trying to meet someone who's got our qualities, which is a particular kind of. It's almost a strand of narcissism we all carry is looking for someone who's like us. And when I heard this person say, you know, I want a guy. I'm entrepreneurial and I'm driven, and I want to find someone who's like that. There's a hint of narcissism in there. I'm not calling any of us narcissistic people for feeling this way. I think it's just a streak we all have in us. And to me, it derives from this almost this slight arrogance that the way that we have decided for ourselves is the best way. That is the good way to be. That is the best way to be. And there are people. There are people in my life who I've had friends where I tried to encourage them to, you know, I'm like, you could do this, you know, with. With what you've got and with your ability and with that, you could do this and you could create this, you could build this business, you could make. And, and I look back now and I kind of, I think, you asshole. Like that was me trying to make my friends me. It wasn't necessarily me truly listening to what's best for my friend. It was me saying, what's best for you is to be more like me. And I've had people in my life that don't have the same ambition or the same, you know, but they don't have that drive that I have. But they've been naturally, more naturally content than me. They've been more naturally happy or at peace. I'm not saying that what they have doesn't come with its own dark side or negative side effects, but the way I've been in my life has had a dark side.

Yeah.

And that dark side has had the potential to make me incredibly unhappy. That ambition can quickly turn into a disease. And, and it's like I'm. I could just as easily as me saying, I, I'm giving you this part of me that's really worked for me, you could equally say, I'm giving you my disease. Here's my disease. Go, go for it. You know. And that's, that's a sort of arrogance we all have and it's a lack of self awareness we all have, or a lot of us have, where we're trying to make someone more like us. It's one of the most dangerous things about advice in general is that a lot of our advice is a way of telling people to be more like us. But that assumes that the way that we are is the best way. And when I heard this woman talk about who she was looking for, I couldn't help but think, and I said this to her in front of our love life group, that this. One of the most beautiful things that might happen to her is that she finds someone who's completely different to her. If she found someone who had made themselves really happy without having to achieve goals all the time, that might be one of the most amazing partners she could possibly have.

Yeah.

Is not someone who is someone who accepts her and celebrates her best traits. But maybe the person that's perfect for her won't be bowled over and impressed by her achievements. They might celebrate the parts of her that are really beautiful, but they won't go, oh my God, it's so amazing that you've achieved this. Because they don't live by that paradigm.

No.

And then they might happy in other.

Ways and they might nudge You. Right. They might make you stop and celebrate a bit more. Stop and like, enjoy things or have a bit more good times together connection, you know, like, I, A lot of my relationships have been with people way more emotionally open than I am because I know I can be quite rational, I can be a bit clinical about things. And someone who is very much more in touch emotionally, I know is, is good for me. Like, that's one area where I know I wouldn't want a partner like me dispositionally. I actually would want someone who's a bit more mushy and emotional when in touch with all those things because that's not naturally my wheelhouse and it's, it feels better to like, have someone who brings that out. So. So, yeah, I think that's right. I think what. Where the, you know, where the thing and this comes back to like you and Audrey talked about the jiu jitsu and stuff, but like, there are some things where you, you do like being on the same page because even though you two don't both do jiu jitsu, you both do value health and fitness and stuff. And there's a synergy there. So that's nice.

Yeah. But even there, right. I'm reminded of, I'm reminded of my friends, Jesse Itzler and Sarah Blakely, who, albeit an extraordinary power couple, they are very, very different. His idea, when he goes away for a weekend and his version of a fun weekend is going and doing a 100 mile bike ride with his friends, followed by ice baths and breathing techniques. She uses the weekend to go away and have a me weekend at a spa where she just takes a candle and gets massages and a facial and writes in her journal and just has a relaxing weekend and eats candy. Meanwhile, Jesse has a rule in his life that he doesn't eat anything but fruit until noon every day and is extraordinarily kind of anal about what he eats. And she's like, I don't. I'm not doing that. I like pancakes. You know, it. They, they are so different now. They're similar in other ways. Right? There is a synergy. They're similar in other ways. But would he have said back in the day, I don't know the answer to this, but would he have said, you know, my ideal partner loves fitness like I do and they love doing these activities and whatever. Maybe he would, maybe he'd say, oh, I need someone who's into all of that.

Yeah.

But he clearly doesn't. And I think that that's, I think to me, the big Message of all of this is that we are routinely made a fool of by life for our preconceived notions of what we think we're supposed to have in our love life, what kind of person we think we're supposed to be with. How many people do we know collectively who ended up with someone who is very different than the kind of person they thought they would end up with? And they're happy. They're not. It's not that they ended up with a different kind of person and they're unhappy, they're happy, but they never would have guessed that I'd have someone with this quality or I'd have someone who was good at this, or I'd have be with someone who's not good at this. We wouldn't write that down. When we're envisioning our ideas or partner, those things wouldn't go on the vision board. Yeah, but that's who we fell in love with. And I think that's really important as we. As we go out there and we. We date and meet people, is that these preconceived ideas of what's important to us, they. They lack creativity, they lack imagination. They tend to be based on a current level of awareness. A lot of the time they're based on this idea that the way I am is the best way. And then we come across someone who teaches us things we didn't even know that we'd value until we come across that person and we realize, oh, our way turns out, isn't always the best way. There's someone else who's figured out life from a completely different angle. And that's amazing. It's all these preconceived notions that kind of tie us up in an idea of what we want. Instead of us being able to be present in our love lives with the people we actually meet and what they have to offer that may surprise us.

Yeah, we. We overrate similarity and underrate surprise because we are all surprised by people and by what we like. As many things where you tried a. You tried a movie, you tried an experience, you tried a country you weren't sure about, and loads of people like, huh, I actually really like that. And it's the same with people, right? There's just many things you don't know that you don't know. And I think, you know, I've never known anyone with the laundry list approach to dating where it's been like, yeah, I did the laundry list, went out and nailed it. And it was so successful. My dating experience Usually they go, I've got a massive laundry list and can't find someone who fits that. No shit.

Well, I think that. I think that it can be a long laundry list or it can just be this one or two things you've convinced yourself are really important to you. And. And those one or two things might actually not be important at all, but they are dictating your love life right now. And. And to your point, sometimes we don't know unless we're open to an experience. We just don't know. A lot of people are losing opportunities because they're not open to the experience. So they're not even getting on a date with people who might surprise them. They're ruling people out before they even get to that point. And they might be doing it based on job, they might be doing it based on perceived financial status, they might be doing it based on looks, they might be doing it based on height, they might be doing it based on whether they think someone is doing something, quote, interesting with their lives. There are all these ways that people take other people out of the game instantly before they even have a chance to recognize what they have. And this isn't. I want to make something very clear. This isn't. We're not talking about chemistry here. You can have chemistry with a lot of people that you wouldn't expect that you would have chemistry with. I certainly am not an advocate for getting into any kind of a relationship romantically where you don't feel chemistry. But I think what's interesting is that we can feel chemistry with more people than we think we can. We often only expose ourselves to a very specific kind of person where we think we predictably, reliably have chemistry, but we don't. We're almost afraid to explore the chemistry with people that fall outside of that. And that could be for any number of reasons. It could be because we've convinced ourselves that there's a certain kind of person we're supposed to be with. It could be because we're worried that if that woman goes on a date and starts feeling something with someone who's not entrepreneurial and not ambitious in that same way that she is and is, maybe he's the happiest guy in the world who has a very small yoga practice with a couple of students, and he hasn't got any ambitions to grow it. He just really loves what he's doing right now. He's enjoying it. And she might end up finding that to be fascinating because she's like, wow, he doesn't have the disease.

Mm.

He's just happy with what he's doing. That's amazing. What a great compliment. To me, who always moves the goalpost. She might find that, but there might be a sense of, oh, if I start dating a guy like that, am I gonna get judged by my friends, or is he gonna get judged by my friends? And is that gonna make me insecure? Is there some part of my ego that doesn't want to, quote, show off a person like that because they don't fit this stereotype of what I'm looking for? There are all sorts of reasons why we. We. We kind of rob ourselves of the opportunity because we suddenly find the ways that we're being judgmental, and it's almost like we're worried we're not going to be able to get over those things. Like, yes, I feel chemistry with this person. Yes, there's something really interesting about this person, but this. But he's. This. But he does this for a living. But, you know, and we. We go into judgment mode. And I think there's even a fear that, well, what if I'm not able to get over this? You know, I. It might be that the guy's shorter than the guys you date, and there's a part of you that's, like, why he's actually a really great guy, and we actually have chemistry, but he's. He's short, and I don't normally like short guys. And then it's. You get in your own head and you're like, well, what if, I don't know, my friend's going to judge this? Am I going to judge this? Am I going to continue to make a thing out of this? Am I going to be able to get over this? And then we make ourselves incredibly unhappy with something that, down the line, isn't actually going to matter to you. I think that there's a threshold beyond which those kinds of things begin to not matter. Or even if they do matter, they're not one of the things that you really care. You know, like, it's not in the foreground in any meaningful way, because everything else is so much more important. And I believe that once people cross that threshold, call it the deepest kind of connection, call it love, call it a genuine kind of soul bond, but what. Once you pass that point, so many of those things that we judge someone on or that we think matter cease to matter. The danger is that we never get to that point with anyone because we always find a way to disqualify someone before we get to that Point.

Yeah, I think this is, sorry I was gonna say, I think this is cognitive bias, essentially where we're just looking, we're only paying attention to the things that confirm our pre existing beliefs about people and situations. So just from what you were saying, I suppose the game is to almost try and make yourself as malleable as possible in terms of the way that you view the world and people and the value of people and just be very suspicious of your own cognitive bias when it comes to people's worth.

Yeah, our defaults that we ascribe to other people and be suspicious. I think of your, your little, we all have like our little vision of like how life is going to go again, especially when we're younger. We have such a, A, a feeling of, yes, I'm going to do this and then I'll graduate there and I'll probably have a job there and this is what my partner will be like. And you know, there's that saying, if you want to make God laugh, tell him about your plans.

There's a great, there's a, there's a scene from the movie up in the Air that just always stuck with me where the older woman is talking to the woman in her early 20s and she says to her, what do you want in a guy? And this young woman goes into a lengthy description of a guy who drives this kind of car, you know, this pickup truck, and the only thing he loves more than me is his golden retriever. And he looks like this, and he's got this education and he's, you know, like. She goes down this long list and then she says to the older woman, what, what do you want? And she says, someone who's kind, a nice smile, someone, someone who's from a good family. She's like, you don't realize how important that is until later, but from a good family. And she's like, you know, a little hair on his head maybe, but even that isn't, you know, even that isn't a deal breaker. And she just, she goes down this short list of things that are important to her. And, and the younger woman says, Anna Kendrick's character, the younger woman looks at her and she's like, God, that is so depressing. And the funny thing is that's the lens of this 20 something year old is that it's depressing. But what she doesn't realize is that it's not at all depressing to the older woman. It's not depressing, it's that she's come to value very different things In a person, she's come to see that where it's at is not in any of that nonsense. And her lens has evolved to be much, much wider in terms of the kinds of people that she's willing to see life. Right. When you. When you're that. When you're that person who has that list of things that you've convinced yourself are really important, most people are invisible to you because all you see is this very narrow group of people that fit into this idea. The moment you start realizing that how many different ways people can be fascinating, how many different ways people can be impressive, how many different stories there are that are pretty amazing, that people have lived through, been through, come through, struggles, you know, all of these things, you start to just realize, whoa. Like there are. There are really interesting people everywhere. There are fascinating or impressive people everywhere. And a lot of them have done things we haven't. They've learned things that we haven't. And your field of vision just completely changes. I actually think that this opens up the playing field in terms of how many people could be great, how many people could be great to have a relationship with. I actually think that when we start to become more ready for a real relationship where we genuinely see and appreciate somebody else, I actually think that the playing field opens for who could be that person. And I'm not saying everyone could be great for us, not by any stretch of the imagination. But I think when we start being more compassionate towards other people, less judgmental of other people, when we start viewing them through a much more curious lens of what's interesting or great about you. I just think the number of options that we actually have of who we could have a great life with starts to become more promising.

I think I want to push back just a little bit, just a hedge, because I love all of this. But I do think a couple things have come up that I think are worth flagging, which is, first of all, I think it's great advice. This line came to me where it's like, lose the list, but do react to resentments like you have to do. You should probably look inside and see if there's some of these underlying traits that. That are causing you some resentment inside yourself. Cause what happens, I think Audrey brought this up is, yeah, when you fall in love, like, a lot of that stuff goes out the window. The stuff that bothers you, a lot of that. Especially the superficial stuff that will go out the window. Cause you're in love. And that'll do a lot of the heavy lifting for you. But that will also do often too much heavy lifting. Sometimes you'll start to just swallow some toxic traits as well. Because love is very, very powerful. And you see these people that are in marriages for a long time with like people who are proper psychopaths or narcissistic personality disorder people. But I do think listening to your resentments is important and you have to kind of, you have to do a little dance between am I being too judgmental or are these resentments something that are just gonna, they're core to that person's personality. Like there's those big five personality traits that are pretty, that are, that run pretty deep, like agreeableness, conscientiousness, openness. And so much of what we talked about today is about openness. Really. Like if, if you can kind of just get in touch with how open you really are to different people and different experiences, you probably want to also get someone who is pretty similar to you on that spectrum of openness or pretty similar to you on that spectrum of agreeableness. Because I've heard Jordan Peterson talk about this before. If you get someone who is totally disagreeable and you're quite agreeable over time you'll just think that person's a little bit cold and you know, you might be in love with them. But if you still have that resentment of like why is this person cold in this situation and you don't listen to that resentment forever, then that, that might be a true non compatibility that is worth listening to as well.

Yeah, I suppose that comes down to, at the highest level, knowing the most important character traits that you're looking for. For me, kindness was the probably number one. For me, if kindness isn't there, there is nothing. There is no other trait that can make up for that not being there. There's no amount of attraction, there's no amount of fun or excitement or that could make up for that trait not being there. And I think we have to be honest with ourselves about those, about those things that are absolutely essential to us. And I suppose Jordan Peterson also talks about if someone is an extreme extrovert and you're an extreme introvert, then if it causes such lifestyle conflict that you're always at odds like Audrey and I, we're. Audrey's more extroverted than I am, but she also loves staying in and chilling out and you know, just watching a movie or reading or whatever as much as I do. So it's not like even though she would probably be more extroverted than me in terms of going out and Socializing for a. It's not like I hate that and don't want to do that. So I'm entirely open to the idea of doing that. But it's also the case that she enjoys the nights where we stay in. If I hated going anywhere and doing anything and she hated staying in, that would create a genuine lifestyle incompatibility.

Neither of you guys were willing to scuba dive, right?

Anytime. Also that you are on complete opposite ends of the spectrum with regards to any personality trait with someone. I think it's going to cause conflict. I think differences are good, but I think if they're complete polar opposites, it's dangerous in terms of compatibility over the long term.

What are some of the others that we've said? Introversion and extroversion. What else, Audrey, do you think are some of those things?

If you're on say someone is incredibly conscientious and very British and really doesn't like to get in people's way, he doesn't like to be rude. And then you have. On the other end of the spectrum, you have somebody who isn't conscientious at all and you know, not necessarily ill intended through it, but just is. Has no real awareness of other people and how they come across and will play music loudly in public spaces. That's the kind of thing that would resentment because. Yeah, it's not because. It's not necessarily because one person is wrong. I don't think. I mean, arguably.

I'm going to say that the person playing music in loud, loudly in public spaces is wrong. The height of narcissism.

But you're highly conscientious. So I think, I think that's what I mean. I think, you know, for me, I'm not as conscientious as you. I think I'm quite conscientious, but not as much as you. So it wouldn't sort of get my back up in the way that it does you. I would find it almost endearing that somebody has so little self awareness that they could be that way and I'd find it quite funny.

Whereas you're very conscientious.

Yeah, no, I am, but I'm. I'm not. Not as much as you.

I don't think Matt has extreme control over all forms of communication. So when it comes to like whispering in a movie theater, there's those people that have no control over the loudness of their whisper. Matt will have it down to the decibel of what's appropriate.

Ah. I was in the cinema with Stephen and My mum the other day, and she was just constantly rustling in her bag for, like. She had a bag of, like, food can, like, you know, popcorn and whatever. But it was so loud and I was just like, ma, just like, do it a little more quietly. Like, it was. It was really loud. I find it hard to ignore that stuff to a fault, probably.

I had a. I had like a little thing that turned into an argument with a girlfriend over that, where I was like, what? Like, a long time ago. But I was like, oh, babe, just. You want to do that, like, a bit quieter with a popcorn. And it's like. I was trying to, like, tell her, like, it's quite loud. And then she was very annoyed that I, like, like, as if I was, like, scolding her in, like, publicly. And, you know, I had to. I had to move that one over, over a while.

So, Audrey, what if.

So careful, careful.

What if it was two people? Like, one of them hated public displays of affection and the other one love them.

Well, see, I think that's highly problematic because then that's obviously someone would feel perpetually unloved and the other person would feel perpetually aggressive.

Yeah, yeah. You wouldn't survive in a situation.

Matt couldn't be with someone who didn't, like, hold hands in public or ever kiss in public. You would not like that, Matt.

I'll be like a wilting flower.

I actually wonder where that is on the. On, like the big five personality trait. I think we invented a new one, a true new bass compatibility thing. Well, there's two of them. There's one loudness of whisper and two.

Touching of hands, loudness of popcorn. It should be one of the big five. Yeah.

How.

How loudly you rustle your hand in the popcorn bag at the cinema.

Oh, how good is it, though, if you get a screening where, like, no one's there and you can be as loud as you want with all your snacks.

So you want to be that loud.

Or if I'm sitting at home on my own, then, yeah, I'm only doing.

It's really weird.

I'm doing it out of courtesy to other people.

So you're sitting in the cinema going, oh, I just wish I could grab this bag and rustle it around.

I wish I could be more nois while you're feeding.

So really you're just, you know, like in Ferris Bueller's Day off, where Ginny, I think is her name, is, like, having a go about the fact that her brother Ferris is taking a day off and the guy, the, like, bad Boy says to her, well, you could take a day off. And she says, yeah, but if I did it, I'd probably get in trouble. And he says, so you're not annoyed that your brother took a day off. You're annoyed that if you did it, you'd get in trouble. You're like that with the popcorn. You're like. You're sitting there desperate to rummage around and make noise, but you're then having a go. You're having a go at your girlfriend because she's doing it.

No, but I'm. I'm being so conscientious. I'm. I'm aware of other people hearing it. That's.

I just love the idea that if no one. I'm not going, you'd be like a mad, like, Tasmanian devil, and that would be you happy. That's really funny.

Yeah. I want the whole screen to myself and to be able to just be as noisy and stuff my face.

So we've added two. Rustling popcorn and public displays of affection.

You know, something I was thinking earlier when you guys were speaking, I think something that's really important to remember when it comes to dating and when you're meeting people and how to get to the bottom of whether or not you are truly compatible with someone who might not fit into your criteria of what you think you should be with or the kind of person you would end up with. I think people's best personality traits reveal themselves over time, as do their worst. And I think that sometimes we're expecting the best parts of people will come later when different scenarios, they're exposed to different scenarios, and you see them in different circumstances, whether it be around their family, their friends, how they respond to you when you're having a bad day or when you do something wrong. You know, how they argue, how they push back, whatever. I think we can sometimes write people off before they've even had a chance to be themselves.

Yeah.

Because in dating, we meet people's representatives really for quite a long time. I would say probably at least two or three dates until people start to remotely relax and show kind of a human side of themselves.

So what would you say, Audrey, in relation to your friends? If they're asking you for advice because they've been on a couple of dates and they're not really sure and they don't know if it's worth continuing, but he's asking her out again. Is. Are you in the camp of give it more time, or do you think that there are certain things that have to be there for you? To do that. Like a really great amount of chemistry, for example. And if someone does have a really great amount of chemistry, are we even having this conversation? Are they. Are they just seeing them again anyway? Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. I think if someone is lacking chemistry and they think they don't feel attracted to them, I wouldn't say no, you should go on more dates with this person because I think ultimately 99% of the time it ends up being not right. Chemistry is really important. Really, really important. Now, I don't know if you necessarily have the most immense amount of chemistry in the beginning, but you can tell whether or not somebody is compatible to you in that way. And I think I wouldn't. I don't think you should advise people to go down a sort of passionless route. However, I think if people's reservations are around superficial things that I. I don't particularly think should be deal breakers, I would probably, in a hypothetical scenario, be inclined to suggest that they do give it more time and they do try and see different sides of. Of that person. But that's all. That's also who I am. And I think it's important to remember that people do have different kind of. That they are turned off by different things. And there are certain things that just are deal breakers for people, as Steve mentioned.

I guess I'm. And what a time to bring this up at the end of the episode. But I guess I'm wondering if the idea of someone who has chemistry but is holding themselves back is one that many people find themselves, is a predicament many people find themselves in, or if this is just a complete straw man that we're setting up here. I mean, Audrey, do you think. Do you think that this is a common scenario that women may find themselves with the chemistry? Because you just clearly just said if you don't feel any chemistry, don't bother continuing. But do you think it is a common scenario for people to feel chemistry but then hold themselves back?

Well, it happened in Sex and the City with Charlotte and Harry.

So what happened with Charlotte and Harry? Do tell.

And that's just science.

I know, I know. I know a lot of Sex in the City purely from Audrey. I'm learning it years later. So. Go on, babe. Let's. Let's hear it.

It's a great show. So.

Well, many people agree.

Let me remember. So Charlotte has very much a kind of checklist of what she would like in a perfect husband, and she marries this man who is everything she wants on paper. He's handsome, he's successful, he's from a good family. He's all these different things. And they end up having a lot of sexual problems and essentially breaks them up over about a year period. And when they get broken. So when they break up, she gets a lawyer in order to deal with her divorce. And her lawyer is this man called Harry Goldenblatt. And Harry is not at all what she expected to be with. He is far shorter. He is, in her eyes, far less attractive. He just is not at all her type. But her and Harry have this insane chemistry. So they start sleeping together, but she's embarrassed to be with him in public, and she's kind of. She doesn't want to sort of tell her friends that she's sleeping with him. She doesn't want to take him out to restaurants where she'll be seen by people, because she's all about appearances. But eventually she realizes that he may not be everything that she wanted on paper, but he is everything she needs in life because he is, you know, compassionate, kind, hilarious, lovely. He loves her, he accepts her, and he's a demon in the sack. So, you know.

I don't know how this plays out, but I hope that he leaves her for being so judgmental about not wanting to be seen in public with him. He sounds lovely.

He is lovely. He actually does say to her, you know, if you don't accept me, I accept you. If you don't accept me, then, you know, let's not do this. And she. That's when she realizes, oh, he's also got boundaries and standards. I want this man because he's not going to let her, you know, make. Make a fool of him.

I wish there was some way that we could watch more episodes of this.

Well, thanks today to our sponsor.

Did you like that Matthew is hooked on Sex and the City?

I like the idea that in this podcast, the only people who needed to hear the story are the three dopes on the podcast because probably half our audience knows the story intimately.

Yeah. And I do apologize if I've not retold it accurately. It has been a long time since I've watched the episode.

New podcast segment. Audrey rehashes episodes of the Sex and.

The City from memory.

From memory. I think it's. You did a great job on this one.

Thanks, Jay.

Well, I. I think this has been really interesting. If anything can help us get out out of our idea that we're all raised right about what's best for us and that all the ideas that we've had for a long time about who we're supposed to be with can just be held a little more loosely. And I think, Jamison, you made a very, very important point, which was that this doesn't extend to accepting, being more accepting of terrible behavior. It doesn't extend to being more accepting of things that truly jar us or make us unhappy. It's more about having an openness to surprising things that make us happy and as meant, you know, everyone listening to this will have had moments in life where you were surprised at the new things that made you happy. You were surprised at the new things you came to love, the new friends that were just completely different, people you never knew you'd be friends with. And they're the best. Well, the same happens in love. And it's fun, isn't it, to watch all of the ways that the younger us is made a fool of through what the more experienced us comes to love and appreciate. I want to read another review before we go anywhere else today. Before we read that review, I just want to remind everybody that we have our fun guide, the nine Texts. For anyone who wants nine messages you can send to create more chemistry, more attraction with somebody, go to ninetexts.com to download that guide. It's absolutely free and it's ultra practical. And we know that's one of the things you love about us and what we do is that it's practical and there are things that you can actually use. So go over to 9texts.com to download that. And don't forget to check out the new website if you haven't already. Howtogetheguy.com if you have a particular love life challenge, right now you're struggling to meet people. You're finding that you keep meeting people, but it doesn't go anywhere. You're struggling to get commitment with someone you've been seeing for a long time. On the homepage of the website, you can enter your challenge and it will recommend you the best program for you based on your challenge. So go check that out@howtogettheguide.com that little quiz is right there at the top of the homepage. And as we said before, please come over to our membership. AskMH.com if you want to graduate from the Love Life Podcast to the Love Life Club, where I and Steven will actually be coaching you every month. Stephen, why don't you read us that final review for today.

This is from Beth, who says hi. Matthew and Stephen just want to say I'm really enjoying the podcasts. I've been in a rut Keep meeting terrible men and wondering why I keep coming across the same type of people. I felt like I was on a downward spot spiral and since listening to your podcast, they've given me so much faith in myself and now I believe there are genuine people out there for me to meet too. I truly think in a couple of months time I'm going to be a force to be reckoned with. And after following all your tips and advice, haha. Thank you for picking me up at a low time. Thanks once again and keep up the hard work. I don't think you realize how much your podcast can help people like me.

Lovely. Thank you so much Beth.

Thank you Beth.

It's beautiful and I'm sure you are already a force to be reckoned with. Well, please leave us a review over on itunes. It really does mean the world to us. And a big thank you to Jameson, Audrey and Steven for being here. I'm actually, I just got to say guys, I'm loving this little crew. I think there's a real nice balance going on right now between all of us. Jameson, it's wonderful to hear your insights. People don't realize Jameson's been creating content with us from behind the camera for what, nine years now? Eight years. Nine years.

Nine years.

Nine years. This man is an encyclopedia season for all of this content. Stephen, great thoughts as always and wonderful co hosting and of course, Audrey, it is an absolute delight to have you on here with us and I know that people feel the same if the comments on the single shaming episode are anything to go by where people really loved having a female voice on the show. So thank you, Audrey.

Thanks guys. It was really fun.

We will speak to you next time in the next episode of Love Life. Feel free to let us know what you thought of this episode as well over@podcastthewhussey.com that is the email address you can email into and we'll see you in the next episode. Thank you everyone. Sam.