You Know They’re Wrong for You… So Why Can’t You Let Them Go?

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That works. Foreign welcome back to Love Life. Today's episode is all about why we stay in painful and difficult relationships or dynamics either in our romantic life or in our familial friendship life for too long and what we can do about it if we want to get ourselves out of these situations or if we want to remain in these situations and, and teach people how to treat us better. We also are going to be talking about how to have tough conversations gracefully and effectively. We have a couple of Love Life line questions coming up from our dear listeners and a new segment of Steve's Sleeves. Oh, we're going to find out what's up. Steven Sleeves.

Stephen likes a name. Now.

I've come around.

I've come around.

Come around.

Yeah, I think the listeners gave some nice feedback and they, they now just keep saying the word Steve Sleeves. So it's like a thing. So I'm just like, okay, I, I think they've caught on to it because.

It was catchy from the beginning. Steve, this is what you never understood about Steve's sleeve.

No, no, clearly.

But he understands it now.

Yeah, now the idea was ahead of where I was. I had to catch up to it.

It was ahead of Steve's time. So we, we also have some amazing stuff coming up this month for all of our love life members, of course. Steven, you just released a new course on the 15th. Can you give us one line on what that's about?

It's on flirting and communication in early attraction and how to get it in the early dating stage.

That has just come out inside the Love Life app. On May 2, we have a coach check in with Audrey. I will be doing a full coaching session on May 9 with everybody answering questions, bringing people on live, interacting with our wonderful love life community. Steven, your coaching group session is on the 16th and then yours, Audrey, is on the 28th of May. So we have a very packed month inside of love Life. And we also, of course, have the heartbreak recovery program for anyone who's going through heartbreak that is now inside love Life. You can join love Life by going to join love life.com and become one of our members. Now, let me ask you a question, Stephen. I have a bunch of items here, and you have to tell me what they have in common.

Okay.

The first is a mini zen desk garden with a little sand pit and a miniature rake. A venti iced brown sugar, oat milk shaken espresso from Starbucks, a pair of socks with pizza slices on them, or a candle that smells like fresh linen on a spring day.

Well, that just sounds like my weekly grocery list.

That's what you've been spending your money on?

I am an impulse shopper. I do not do well in big stores.

Oh, I've been wondering why you're broke.

And my fridge is empty.

Yeah, but you are wearing lovely socks. Well, let me tell you what all of these items have in common.

Go on.

Every single one of them, useless as they may be, is $7.

Okay?

Do you know what else is $7 right now?

I don't know.

You're not going to believe this, Steve.

Go on.

Matthew AI until Friday the 25th of this month, Matthew AI can be obtained 24.7Unlimited for just $7.

Is that the relationship coach that is in your pocket at all times or answer any question?

The very same wingman, yes. So basically, you can have unlimited coaching for your love life, for any dating question, for any relationship question, for anything you're going through right now, whether it's heartbreak, anxiety at the beginning of dating, not knowing what to text back, trying to have a hard conversation but needing it scripted for you, Matthew AI can do all of the above and much, much more. And right now, for a very limited time, until Friday the 25th, you can get it for $7 for your entire first month.

And you can try it for free.

Yeah, you can literally go there, try it out@askmh.com go try it out, ask a couple of questions for free, see what it can do for you. And I promise you, you will think this is madness that I don't have this for $7 for the entire month. I mean, for the cost of a mini zen garden for your desk, you can have my advice for your love life for an entire month. And once people have Matthew AI, they, they don't want to give it up. They keep using it month on month because it is just that powerful as a tool to have in their pocket at all times. So go grab it while it's available now, askmh.com is the link. Try it out for free and then grab it for a whole month for $7.

Well, I'm gonna add it to my grocery list at some point. I should buy milk, though.

It's not a bowl of cereal, Steven. All right, so let's talk about the. What I see as one of the biggest things that we get asked about all the time, which is bad behaviors and people. What's really common is people get curious about why is this bad behavior happening and why does this person keep doing this? And they tell the story over and over. But what's always underneath that question that's on the tip of my tongue is, okay, you're obsessed with why they're doing these things. I'm obsessed with why you're allowing these things to happen. And I say that with no judgment because I, in my own life have had situations that have gone on for years where I have been in the position of constantly asking why someone is doing something, but not spending nearly enough time going, why do I allow this? What is going on with me that this behavior is persisting, and I am choosing to complain about it and not do something about it. So I want to talk about the ways we justify bad behaviors and the kinds of behaviors we do justify and why we justify them for so long so that we can then talk about what to do about it. Now, Steven, take us through this poll that we put out on Instagram.

Yeah. So we asked our audience, what is a behavior that you let people get away with but wish you didn't? And the results were interesting. So with 36%, the top answer was, they don't respect what's important to you. The second answer, with 29%, was, they always talk about themselves. Next answer. Third, with 26%, was, they waste your time, they're always late, or they cancel often. And finally, at the bottom with 9%, was they downplay your achievements. So the top answer was people not respecting what's important to you, and slightly below that, people always talking about themselves.

So let's talk about those first, because. Okay, Audrey, I'm curious your thoughts on this. They don't respect what's important to you. That was the Highest one at 36%. If you were to guess what are some of the context do you think people mean when they say that?

I suppose it's probably that feeling of when you're in a relationship with somebody and you feel like they're dictating the terms of everything that you do, and you're always sort of, you know, you're always going to them. You're always sort of. I don't know whether that's like going to their side of town, you know, hanging out with their friends, doing the things they like, participating in activities that they're interested in. And there's no real interest and sort of spark of conversation around the things that you maybe want to do and are interested in. And oftentimes, I think what happens is when somebody doesn't make us feel like they are interested in us in that way, we don't feel, especially if we have more of a pleasing tendency, which is a lot of people out there, we don't feel necessarily like we can kind of assert what it is that we want to do. And then we end up feeling like what we want and what we care about just doesn't matter.

Yeah. And it's. It's easy to fall into this vicious cycle of not asking for attention on the things that are important to us because we want to please somebody else and we want to make them happy, and we want to be what we think we need to be in order to hold on to them. And so we show a lot of interest in the things that matter to them and go out of our way for the things that matter to them. And for a lot of people, they never really point out how they feel in the beginning, that what's important to me never really gets any airtime and you don't show any interest. People don't tend to point those things out, especially when they're in pleaser mode or when they're feeling insecure about whether they're going to hold on to somebody or whether they're good enough for somebody. It's very natural to go to a place of just making what's important to them important to you, because it feels like a survival strategy in early relationships. And then that gets carried over into the relationship itself. And it then becomes very hard to get out of those patterns, to suddenly go from, I've made everything that is important to you, everything that matters to you, the headline in my life. And all the while I feel like there's a part of me that is constant, that is withering and malnourished because it never gets any time. I don't even feel like I am fully myself in this relationship because I don't give appropriate time to the things that are important to me. But it now feels like a huge thing for me to come to you and say, I'm not happy in these ways because it. It's like a complete about turn from the way that we've been for quite a long time with this person. And then they act shocked, like, where's all this coming from? And that completely validates our fears that by bringing this up, we're going to rock the boat in ways that threaten the relationship. So it's, I think, a huge amount of why people don't respect what's important to us is that we kind of minimize the things that are important to us in the stages where we're just trying to get the relationship to survive. And I think part of that, by the way, comes from our fear of not finding anyone. Our fear of it never goes well for me. I can't seem to hold on to anyone or no one ever seems to want a relationship. So when we find someone we like and it's going well, it is really easy to go. The most important thing right now is not what's most important to me. The most important thing is that I get this relationship to work. And if me being all in on the things that are important to them is a way to get this relationship to work, that's the priority right now.

And you might have that. Yeah, the euphoria drug of it working and oh my God, they're attracted to me and it's going well. Supersedes. You don't realize maybe your needs aren't really being met or it's one sided. And also I just think.

Wait, just. Okay, before you move on from that, I just want to highlight what you just said because that's really important. Say that again.

I said, well, at the beginning, your euphoria, the drug of like, oh my God, I'm getting attraction from this person and it's working. You don't realize in that moment your needs might be being ignored or it's one sided.

Okay, that is a profoundly important and insightful point. Do you know the, the experiment that was done on rats where they were, they had access, I think it was to cocaine or was it heroin? I don't think it really mattered. But there was one where they starved to death, where they were, they had access to a drug constantly that gave them dopamine and they went back to it so many times to get that hit that they were no longer focused on their core fundamental needs. In their case of actually eating, dating can be that powerful of a drug that we don't realize in the beginning our core needs aren't being met because the euphoria, the high, the oxytocin, the dopamine of feeling close to someone and you know, getting that reward of like, oh my God, I'm, I'm attracted and it's there's chemistry, and it feels like there's progression and all of that. It over overrides everything. And it is a wonderful explanation of how so many of us get into a relationship and get really deep in, go really far down the road before realizing that, like the rats in that experiment, we're not actually getting our fundamental needs met.

Yeah. And don't you find as well, if you're a people pleaser, it's uncomfortable. You're almost not comfortable being served by someone else in a relationship or getting your needs met. It feels like, oh, I'm taking. Or I feel bad, I feel bad, I'm asking, or I feel bad that I want them to do something nice on my birthday. Even you might feel like, oh, I don't want to put you out.

Can you talk about that, Audrey, that concept of shame around your needs? Because I've heard you mention that before, and I always find that to be a. Just incredibly important for people to hear it put like that.

Yeah. I mean, it's what Stephen's saying, really. It's just, it's. It's. I think a lot of us have a lot of shame around our needs. I think we derive our value from almost being at the service of other people's needs. And, you know, we feel like if we want something, there's something kind of indulgent about that and shameful about that and unattractive, active, and it's gonna. It's gonna push people away. And a lot of it, A lot of this type of kind of thinking comes from just a very deep fear of being. Being rejected. Right. And not being wanted. And in a way, having needs is vulnerable because you're showing parts of yourself. You're actually being an authentic version of yourself when you're demanding something and asking for something versus, you know, I. I'm not going to ask anything from you, and I'm going to be very measured and controlled about what I bring to you, which is, you know, more inauthentic. But I think a lot of us. I think Stephen's point is great. It's so true. A lot of us just have a lot of shame around our needs.

It's almost like as a test, if your partner was like, I've planned a special. It's going to be all about you today, and we're going to just do whatever you want, and it's all about you. Could you feel comfortable accepting that as a treat, or would you be like, oh, I don't want to say what I want to do, and you know, it's like, could you actually accept that as a gift?

Yeah. It's just vulnerable, right?

Yeah. And it just, it just feels indulgent. Oh, it feels wrong. It feels. I feel bad.

The thing that I always try and keep in mind in conversations like this, like any kind of challenging conversation, because I truly believe that our lives improve in direct proportion to our willingness to have challenging conversations. And of course, they can be on the most minor level of having to call up a restaurant, or they could be on the most major level of having a really challenging conversation with your partner or a parent. The word I always have in my mind is intention, intention, intention, intention. Because if ultimately your intentions are pure, you in a way, you have nothing to fear. Of course, there's always the fear of adverse consequences of having a difficult conversation, you know? Okay, on a minor level, the adverse consequence of calling up a restaurant and saying that is that you might have some unwelcome friction with someone on the phone and it might feel a bit awkward, you might feel a bit embarrassed, it might leave you with a bit of a funny feeling afterwards. But in other circumstances, when it comes to a partner, especially a difficult or abusive partner or a parent who just will not listen and will gaslight you over the things that you want to bring up, or then sometimes there are much more severe consequences that we have to keep in mind. And I do want to temper what I'm saying here with the fact that this, and I know we'll come on to this with one of our listener questions today. The answer is not always tackling a difficult conversation head on as much as it would. It sounds nice in theory to be like, have every hard conversation head on in reality. That's not always the best tactic in dealing with situations.

No, but what I've seen you do with friends and people in your life is I have seen you sometimes just bring up like, someone's making passive aggressive comments or someone seems to have an issue with you, or someone is frequently doing something that disrespects your needs and you are able again, in a way that I find very challenging. Because mine is more like withdraw. Mine is more like, I'm going to put them in a timeout and see them less, you know, But I've seen you actually confront those moments and I'm curious. Yeah, you say intent, like, is that how you get yourself psyched up to, like, I'm going to do this uncomfortable thing?

Yeah. Firstly, I'm really flattered that you see me this way. I never knew before this moment that you saw me this way and I'm really flattered. It just highlights the difference between how we feel about ourselves and perception of us from the outside. Because I, to this day still feel like I don't have enough of these conversations and I, you know, I find them challenging and I'd hate confrontation. I do not enjoy confrontation. I think that's part of the reason that I have them. It's because I think that the best way for me to avoid confrontation is to have more of them, but in a better way and sooner. So there's nothing in a way that takes away my fear because I'm not like I'm going to go and tell this person like how what I think. Instead, I'm actually sharing from a place of kindness and compassion, but also demonstrating a standard. So let's imagine that there's a relationship that means a great deal to you where you're really struggling with something that's going on in that relationship. And let's imagine that you're dealing with a good faith actor, not someone who is genuinely abusive. Gaslights, manipulates, will say anything to win the argument. Let's say you're dealing with a good faith actor. And there is a, a fundamental kind of bedrock of love in this relationship.

You can have someone who is selfish and doesn't consider you, but isn't necessarily, you know, a narcissist or a bad person. They're just selfish and self absorbed and they're not considering you and they need to be educated exactly how to consider you and make you happy.

And when you do that, you're not sharing it because they're so selfish. And I can't wait to tell them how selfish they are. You're doing it from a pure place. There's a pure intention there. What's the intention at the end of the day, and you really have to think about this in every difficult conversation in your life. What is the intention? What is the outcome I'm looking for? And it could be in that outcome, in that relationship. The outcome is one of two things. Like I, my number one outcome is for us to be closer. I want us to be closer. And there's something getting in the way of us being close right now. And in this case it's their selfishness. Okay, you don't have to frame it like that, but that's what's going on. You can find other ways to frame it, but that's what's getting in the way. But the purest intention, the number one intention, is for us to be closer to the position that you fall back to if being closer isn't possible because they can't change that behavior or they don't have the self awareness to even admit that they have that behavior is you need to protect yourself. Because no matter what, whether we're close or not, I have to take care of myself. And me being close to you with this behavior not changing doesn't allow me to take care of myself. So that's your fallback position is okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna extricate myself from this relationship or not be as close if I have to. When you know those are your intentions and it comes from nothing but love for this person and it will be with great sadness if you do have to distance yourself, then we're in that conversation. You have nothing to hide with someone. You're not, there's no smoke and mirrors, there's just love. But the ultimate act of love, if you need to do it, is to start to pull away from this person.

And what do you say to someone who goes, yeah, that's great. But I'm afraid that if I have these conversations, I will, like in the case of a relationship, somebody might say, you know, what if I have that conversation and then I lose them? What if I push them away? What if they start or they take it giving me really personally, or they take it personally and it ends up in an argument and then I end up feeling guilty and then it ruins my day and it ruins my week and it ruins my life.

Look, I think, what about that there's a, in, in a way there's two different things to talk about there. First, the stranger who you have that moment with and they happen to be the kind of person that has zero consciousness, no self awareness, no accountability, and they just decide now to chew you out for having dared to criticize in some way. That's for, for those among us, and I count myself among these people. For those who have a sort of nervous system that gets, can get very triggered by that, there will be a hangover from that interaction. There will be like you, you know, you probably will go into some kind of fight or flight state and it will take you a minute or hours to settle down afterwards. To that extent, it's worth picking which moments matter and which ones don't. Right. It's why I avoid those things nine out of 10 times because I go not worth it. And I don't. It's. To me, it's not worth it to my nervous system to put myself in one of those Situations that's going to agitate me. And now I've got to, like, settle down afterwards and so on. But sometimes you. Sometimes saying something is the appropriate thing. And we. I think it's really important to get the perspective that while our nervous system is telling us this person and the way they've behaved is really important and somehow a reflection of us or something we should take personally or internalize. We have to remember that in real life, someone who is like that wouldn't become our friend. Someone who is like that wouldn't be someone we would willingly invite into our lives. This is precisely the kind of person that we should spend our lives steering clear of.

But that's if you. I agree with you. But that's if you don't already have friends like that. Because I think actually oftentimes the reason you allow bad treatment to occur over and over again is because that's your pattern. And, you know, I've been there where I've almost gravitated towards people who are antagonizing and who are invalidating of my feelings and with whom it would have felt absolutely impossible to bring up anything that I was feeling. And you know me, I'm a little bit like you. I'm not really afraid of confrontation. I don't like it. But I'm French, so, you know, it's like we were taught to just speak what we thought from a young age. And it's just not really like. I don't see confrontation as that particularly scary. But I've definitely been in. In dynamics and relationships, not even just romantic friendships as well, where I've just felt like it's. It's not. It's not actually a safe space to bring up those things. And it's not about letting them in. They're already in. And it's already a pattern that you find yourself continuously repeating and that shows up in your life over and over again. Because then when you do meet someone romantically, let's say you are then in a place where you don't necessarily feel like you can bring anything up. Because what you've been taught through friendships and parents and other situations is that when you do, you're invalidated, you're gaslit, you're rejected, you're iced out, you're stonewalled, all of those things. And so then. Or you know, other people are turned against you, all that sort of stuff that happens. So then even if you are dealing with somebody who isn't like that and who is just maybe being selfish and unaware, you are then Completely frozen and incapable of actually bringing it up because you are just going on the assumption that they're going to react in exactly the same way everybody else in your life reacts.

So there's, that's this really, really important and deep stuff. I think there are some simple answers to this, which is firstly, in order to do anything about a behavior, you have to start actually seeing it. And part of the practice as we go through life is to hopefully get better at seeing behaviors sooner. I think there was a time in my life where if someone was charming enough and they were sat in front of me at the end of an hour or two, I wouldn't have noticed that they hadn't asked me a single question about myself. I would have just enjoyed their company and said, wow, this person is so dazzling and so interesting and I love, you know, I love their stories and they're fascinating and so on. Yeah, I wouldn't have know, it wouldn't have occurred to me that I didn't spend a single moment answering any questions about myself these days. I am still, I can still be dazzled by someone, but I am far more likely to get to the end of a dinner no matter how dazzling someone is, and to realize, huh, I asked so many questions of that person and they didn't ask me anything. Like, I'm much more likely to realize that today than I was five or 10 years ago. So being aware of those things is, is I think, half the battle. And the more reciprocal relationships we have in our lives and the more we start to get experience of other kinds of people and the more we pay attention to the way other kinds of people operate differently and more generously, the more we can start to see how some of these people in our lives operate in unhealthy or selfish ways. So paying attention to that when we notice those things, it can be a bit like waking up. I think it's a bit like waking up into a new world of realizing that there are a whole bunch of behaviors around us that we have enabled and played into and accepted and, and taken as a given. Doing something about it then is a terror, a really scary proposition. And where I said there's a simple answer to this, I think that what is perhaps not said enough in conversations like this is that doing things that scare us applies to more than just bungee jumping or doing a stand up comedy set. Because it was something that's always been on your list of something you've wanted to do. But it's, you know, the idea of it is terrifying and We, I think that we, we don't apply that logic enough to our, to the much more subtle and less sort of grand moments of our lives where we might just be having a very nuanced conversation with someone that is a bit different than the kind of conversation we would normally have with them. That those kind of moments that don't announce themselves as terrifically important moments if you were say to say them to anyone else, but represent a huge shift for you in terms of the way you're operating, they're really important. And it's like anything else in life. When you say do something that scares you, there is a, there are real rewards for doing those things, for having those conversations, for saying to someone, every time I talk to you about things in my life, you criticize me and it's making me not want to tell you things.

Here's how I think you should broach that. I think, I think it's even one, even before you say that, you have to almost frame it up in a way where they can't reject it. So I think you go, can I talk to you about something? Is now a good time? You get their buy in for talking to them and if they say yes, you can talk. If they say, oh, not now, I'm busy with xyz, you go, great, no problem. Let me know when you can talk. I just want to talk to you about something. We can talk about it later. It's not a problem. Once they, they've agreed to the conversation. I think to your point about the pizza, you start off by saying, so this is really hard for me to say this because I, I know you and I know you do not do this on purpose. You're a kind, lovely person and even if you don't know that for sure, you say it because people want to be made to feel like good people. So it's a really good way of framing up the conversation positively, which is, you know, like, I know you would never want to do this to hurt me or to, you know, to upset me. So I, it's hard for me to say it because I, I know it doesn't come from a bad place, but it's, it's something that's happened a few times that it really upsets me every time. And I just want to make you aware of it because I know you. If it were me and I was doing something to upset you, I would want to know so that I could act differently. And then you say, you know, I've noticed a couple times. And again, I don't think you mean to do this, that when I bring up X, Y, Z, you criticize. You know, maybe I'm sensitive, maybe I take it the wrong way, but either way, it's just. It's something that doesn't make me feel good. And I would really love it if you could just be mindful of that in the future. I would almost frame it like that because I think then there is no room for someone to get defensive.

Also, no one can argue with how something is making you feel.

Correct.

Right. You're not saying you're selfish and doing blah, blah, because someone go, no, I'm not.

Yeah, you've criticized me. And then it's people. Yeah. No, I didn't criticize you. That's not true. Instead it's. I have felt like.

Yeah, and like when you said X, it made me feel Y. No one can argue that that's how you felt when they said that.

That's right. I think it's. It's a brilliant structure. It's really, really great. And know that there is no structure like what the structure you just gave really important in competently having those conversations. The frame that I gave on having your intention, your good intention at the core is something that can help reduce your nerves a little bit because you know that you're going in not trying to like play chess with someone or not with no smoke and mirrors, but just simply from the. From a good place. But none of those things will stop these moments from being moments that scare you because the nature of them is if you have avoided them for a lot of your life or especially if you've avoided them with certain people, there will be certain conversations that as you're preparing to have them, will make you feel sick in your stomach, give you a ball in your throat, make your head feel dizzy with nerves. And we have to put that in the same category as anything else in life worth doing that scares us. And realize that we may not come out completely unscathed and it may take us a while to settle down afterwards. We may have to prepare to do some nice things for ourselves once it's over because our nervous system is going to be jacked up and all of that is okay and part of the process. There's nothing wrong with you. You are not broken. You have a certain engineering that you've had for much of your life that has been bred into you by certain situations and circumstances. And so it's hard for you as it is for many of us. More people than people even realize it's Hard. We have to tell ourselves it's okay for me to be scared. It's worth doing in spite of that fear and that I will come out the other side of this just a little bit stronger for having had one of these challenging conversations.

I love that. I'm actually curious. We this is a perfect segue into our love Lifeline question. We had somebody who wrote in called Alicia and she asked a really important question which is an added nuance to this conversation. She said hi. Regarding the announced topic, I have a question. How to co parent with a dismissive ex partner that operates on manipulative language, gaslighting, blame shifting, etc. Not only do I struggle to effectively communicate with him, but also when my daughter spends some time with her dad, she becomes unbearable, disrespectful, and it is hurting me to the core. She is five years old.

Yeah. So this Alessia, thanks for for writing in this. It falls into the category I was talking about earlier of not every situation in our life will be benefited by us having a good faith hard conversation because we're not dealing with a good faith actor. When I hear that you have a dismissive ex partner that operates on manipulative language, gaslighting and blame shifting, that's a bad faith conversational partner. And so bringing good faith arguments to that situation is not going to work because they're not playing the same. They're not, they're literally not playing by the same rules as you. So in this case, when you're dealing with that person, there's a technique that I think it was Dr. Ramany introduced me to this technique when dealing with narcissistic or abusive behavior. The technique many of our listeners will have heard, of course, is gray rocking. And the idea behind gray rocking is that you give a very neutral tone to somebody when you're in conversation with them. You keep your answers short. You don't give personal information. So because that personal information will inevitably be used against you.

Yeah.

And you don't get into it with those people. You give them as little as possible. You make yourself emotionally uninteresting.

Yes.

And by doing that, you're minimizing the antagonism in that relationship or the potential for antagonism. There's another idea called yellow rocking, which is the warmer side of gray rocking, which relates to almost bringing a different level of warmth than gray rocking. You still are smiley. You might have very superficial conversations with that person. You keep it light. You don't go into any emotionally vulnerable stuff. You don't go into Complaints you don't go into personal information.

You stick to, as we say in England, sausages and the weather, which basically means trivial, nonsense conversation.

Yes. And it can even involve when they tell you something being like, oh, that's so interesting, or that's so great, like, good for you. That's really, really cool. You know, like, you can even. It can even be a little bit of a. Like, it's good for you.

Oh, that's. Yeah, you can just acknowledge, oh, that's good for you.

Yeah. Almost the way. Not in a overtly pandering way or patronizing way, because that can become antagonistic, but in the most authentic way. You can. It's almost like you're treating them like they're a child. Like a child with this big ego that you can easily placate by offering a few niceties. But deep down, you know the. Again, intention. Because people like, why would I do that with someone? That is this intention. Know what your intention is? Your intention and the outcome you want is to minimize the energy drain that this person is on your life. And if the best way to do that is to emotionally be emotionally uninteresting or to offer them a few niceties that allow them to walk away feeling like there's nothing that's been antagonized and that gives you a more peaceful life, that can be the right thing to do. Because it's not about ego. You don't. I was taught this in boxing a long time ago. You do not step into the ring with ego driving you. You don't step into the ring and fight someone angry. The most dangerous fighters are not the ones fighting angry. They're the ones fighting with a cool, calm head. They don't fight a person. This is what Martin Snow once said to me. You're not fighting a person, you're fighting a style. Stop seeing them as a person. You're fighting, you're fighting a style. If you see them as a person, your ego will get into it and it will become competitive. If you see it as a style, then you just figure out what's the best style to fight this style. So, Alessia, understand, you're not. Forget, you're not fighting your ex. You're fighting a style. What's the best way to deal with that style? Now, in relation to your daughter coming home and being influenced by his style, this is one of those areas where you have to be kind to yourself. Recognize that you are in a challenging situation. You're not in an easy situation, you're in a challenging situation. And that means. And it's a marathon, it's not a sprint. If this person is going to be there in some way for a long time, then it's a marathon. So you say, how do I run that marathon? First, I need to be kind to myself. I need to keep putting myself around people and influences that are healthy, that are loving, that are kind. I need to have this giant well that I can keep going back to, to replenish my reserves, to feel good. And when my daughter comes home, I recognize that she is as, without realizing it, she's as much in this fight as I am. She's five years old and this is a battle between frames. The frame that he gives her and the frame that you give her. And what you want is for your frame to be the stronger frame, for your frame to be the brighter frame and to play the long game with that, not the short game, to know that you may not win the battle, but you're going to win the war. The war is who she becomes by the time she's 30. The battle is, did I get her to be the person I would like her to be this weekend?

And as she gets older, she will start to see the kind of dismissive, antagonizing, gaslighting elements and traits of her father. She will start to see them, she can't see them now because she's five. And so your mum and dad at five are your whole universe. Even if they're, you know, being abusive towards you, they're the whole, they're your whole universe. And it's only as you get older and you start to really understand your in like your independence outside of your parents that you start to see your parents for who they are. And the likelihood of her getting to puberty and actually almost seeing the situation for what it is and turning on her dad is pretty high.

Especially if she has obvious ways to contrast the way he operates to the way you operate. And that doesn't mean you are actively trying to point to the contrast.

Never.

It's, you know, I've heard this said by some very smart people. You don't start bad mouthing your partner.

To your child because otherwise they'll turn against you as well. They'll turn against both of you because they'll feel manipulated by both.

Model the differences, model the contrast. Let them see what a truly loving parent looks like and be patient with them as they come to that realization. Think of you, Alessia. Has there ever been a person in your life that you've dated who it Took you a very long time to really see who they were. Then be patient with this five year old. It might take her a long time to see who her father is, but over time, the more you model love and compassion and generosity and not gossiping and taking the higher road, the more chance she has of, of seeing that you are the beautiful side of this partnership.

I love that.

Thank you, Alessia. I really appreciate that question. Great, great question to have sent in and a great example of where simply having the hard conversation head does not make sense.

Yeah.

And by the way, Alessia, do check out Matthew AI because we have had. I. We had someone who. A friend of mine was at a conference recently where he saw someone who you who was using Matthew AI and when she found out that this guy knew me, she said to him, you have to pass this message on to Matthew. Matthew AI helped me leave a narcissistic relationship that I wasn't able to get out of for years.

Wow.

She said I did all manner of coaching, therapy, you name it, I had, I did so many different things over the years and it was Matthew AI that finally got me to leave this relationship. So Matthew AI isn't just great for the super kind of practical side of dating and relationships. It's also really, really effective at the deeper work that we need to do and the healing we need to do. So it. Matthew AI isn't just great for the more surface level dating strategies. It is also great for the much, much deeper work of healing and moving to new chapters in our lives. So make sure that you make use of that, Alessia. And for anyone else out there who hasn't got Matthew AI do take advantage of the offer. Right now it's $7 for an entire month. You can get that@askmh.com well, it's that time again. That time affectionately named Steve Sleeves. David, could you hit us with our current jingle? Because I know we're going to at some point we're going to update the Steve Sleeves jingle, but let's just go.

Work in progress. I don't even, I haven't even set Melody to it, but we'll, we'll give it a shot.

Don't be bereaved.

You know that we can't leave without another episode of Steve Sleeves.

I really like that because it sort of makes me feel like it's not. We don't have to be too sad that it's coming to the end of the episode. Yeah, there's still more to come. So what's in Steve Sleeves.

Today, Steve, we're gonna play walk or talk. And this is. I'm gonna give you some scenarios where bad behavior occurs. You're gonna tell me, do you walk or is there a conversation to be had that's good?

Walk or talk.

Okay, so they are always on their phone in your company.

Talk, talk, talk.

Even if they're just. They're always texting mid dinner. They don't pay attention, don't seem like they're listening.

Well, it's definitely talk first. If you. If you've talked and nothing's happening, then it's walking.

Okay. They. You find out they regularly have told other people things you've shared in confidence.

Walk.

Sorry, let's say multiple times they've shared something you shared with them.

Walk. Yeah, I mean, I'm always gonna lean Talk. Because it's like you should at least.

Say, yeah, I mean, a lot.

Yeah, I agree. If this. Multiple times, they just. This is not like there are people.

In this life who talk about other people, and there are people in this life who don't talk about other people. And if you're someone who.

Do you think it's that binary?

Yes, I do. If you're someone who once talked about other people and don't now. Like, I used to be more of a gossip when I was younger, and now I never talk about other people. I would never share anything that someone shares with me, because even if they haven't said not to share it, I just wouldn't talk about other people's stuff. And I think that there are just two kinds of people. The people that do that and the people that don't. And if people breach that boundary, personally, I think it's a massive red flag.

Let me give you a scenario.

Okay?

You're in the. You're early on in a relationship and someone tells you something, it. Maybe you've had a fight, and in that fight, some stuff has come out. Maybe they've shared some vulnerable information. But you're like, you need someone to talk to about that fight because you feel like, I just need someone to talk to in it. You go to your best friend in the world and you ask for help or maybe a family member. But in asking for help, you share some details of that conversation, and it falls into that really murky area of they may be told you some things that they wouldn't want shared, but you also feel like you need to give enough context for someone in your life to be able to understand what. To help you with that. I'm saying this because I think that I do have opinions on this, but I'm saying it because it does come up in early dating where you can be like, why did you share that about me? I didn't tell that so that your sister could know that about me, but she's like, yeah, but I tell my sister everything. Like, we. We. I. I was asking for her advice, and then it, you know, from her side, she's like, so what? I'm not allowed to talk to anyone in my life? And from your side, you're like, yeah, but that was between us.

What do you say?

There's also some things with guy friends where you tell a guy friend something and you go, your wife knows, don't she? Yeah, yeah, she does. Like, yeah, there's a lot of, like, couples.

You quickly learn, though, you quickly learn that there are certain people who you can't tell them something without their partner knowing.

Yeah.

So you go, all right, well, then I'm definitely not telling you things that I don't want getting to your partner.

Right? Yeah.

Yeah. And also, I think you sometimes make peace with the fact that their partner might know. And you're like, okay, am I okay with their partner knowing that? Yes. You know, or if it's no, then you don't share it. And I think it's. Yeah. But to go back to what you were saying, I think that there is a way, and I haven't always been perfect in this in my life, but I would. I personally feel very, very proud of myself for the fact that for. For the last six years or whatever, five, six years, I've been really, really good with this. And I actually think that it's changed my standards in a really positive way for the way that I expect other people to show up for me as well. So that's why I'm sharing it. I think that there is a way to share that. So you should. Absolutely. If you've had a fight with somebody, it's early dating. You are well within your rights to talk about the fact that you've had an argument with somebody else. But there's a way of doing that. If they say to you, you know, my dad used to humiliate me and shout at me. And so when you criticize me, it triggers, you know, X in me. And that's why I reacted that way. If you pick up the phone to your sister or your best friend and you're like, oh, my God. So his dad used to humiliate him and shame him, that's a massive breach of trust. Instead, you can say, you know, he's been through some stuff in his childhood that makes him really sensitive to criticism. But it's hard for me because then he reacts like this, and I have a lot of compassion for it. But, you know, it really upset me the other day because he did xyz. That's a different. You know, I mean, to me, that's the way that you share it.

Okay.

And I think that there's a big difference.

That's a. That's a good distinction. I'm just glad we made it, because I feel like that is a common scenario that comes up, and it feels like a murky area. But that's a good way to both not feel like in a relationship, you're in a kind of prison of information where you can't even go to anyone for help while at the same time respecting the personal things that someone has shared with you. That's good.

They flaked on the third date with no explanation.

Walk.

No explanation.

Well, they just didn't show. Like, you're just standing there on the side of the road, and they just didn't show up.

Two great dates, and then the third date they just flaked. And then you text them later and.

But do you mean flake, like, stood you up or flake said, sorry, I have to cancel tonight.

Did you show up at the venue?

Let's say you did show up at.

The venue, and then they don't show up.

They're like, oh, sorry, something came up. I'm really.

Oh, yeah, you got a walk.

Something came up. What? They say that. What? Like, while you're there.

So it makes a difference. Yeah, you're there. And they say, like, as in they.

Didn'T do it an hour before?

No, like, you're there. They say something urgent came up. Sorry. Does it then.

Depends. More of an explanation.

Does it then depend entirely on how they handle? Because I can. I can handle even someone, like, getting somewhere just with a friend or something, and they just, like, they just bailed. But it. I really need to hear the upset and contrition in the tone. Like, it's all about how the next conversation is of like, oh, my God, I messed up enormously. I completely screwed up. I'm so sorry. I'm gonna make it up to you. Like, the right contrition could.

Yeah, it's not up to you, but.

If I heard any note of not contrition in it and casualness, I would be really annoyed.

Well, you're just. Your job's not to play detective on why they flaked. Their job is to be contrite. So if they're not sufficiently contrite, if they don't own the mistake, it's not, they don't have to be on their knees about it. But if they don't own their mistake in a very upfront way, then that would scare the, the hell out of me.

Yeah. You need a reason why you've been.

Stood up on that flaking on third date one I did ask Matthew AI and he, he learned to walk away. He was diplomatic. He said, if it's a one off situation and they've been consistent and communicative, it's probably worth addressing directly. You could say something like, hey, I noticed we didn't meet up as planned and I haven't heard from you. Is everything okay? This gives them a chance to explain themselves and show whether they're willing to repair the situation. So he says it all depends if it's a pattern and if they show follow through and reliability, it's really good.

And there's, there's this. Robert Green has this line that I once heard him say, which is no one ever does anything once. And there's, I think there's a lot of truth to that. And it's obviously it's a great survival strategy. If you went through life just assuming that to be true, you would avoid a lot of pain. But it's also not that it's not a hard and fast rule, because the reality is sometimes you can have a conversation with someone. The reason why I, at the beginning of this exercise said talk is generally what I defer to is because I believe that you reveal by talking. It's not that you necessarily mend by talking, you reveal by talking. Sometimes you mend, but more often than not you reveal. And that's why I use that language in my book Love Life about there are red flags and there are amber lights. An amber light, a red flag is just like no go. An amber light is an invitation to a conversation. And if that conversation makes things better, then it's a green light. If it makes things worse or it stays the same, then it turns into a red light. What Matthew AI does for people is it helps people determine if you're thinking, is this really a red flag or is this an amber light? And if it's an amber light, how can I have the conversation that could lead to a green light or reveal a red flag? Matthew AI will literally show you how to have those conversations.

Yeah. And he actually answered our final one, Matt, which is a Question. You have them over to your house. Let's say it's a friend. They order two pizza pies. You only order one. They order two pizza pies. You only order one. They let you pay and never offer. They said, I'm really hungry. I want two pizza pies.

As in whole pizzas, whole pie, the whole pie.

And they, they eat two. They never offer to pay. They let you pay. Do you talk or do you say, I'm never inviting them over for food again? Because they just, they just didn't even make a pleasant offer. Did it have the topping, the proper toppings, had all the right toppings. They ordered all the rest. They ordered much more pizza and sides and, and dips and chicken wings. They didn't offer. They let you pay.

Woke.

That's woke. This is a friend. It's just a. Oh, it's just a friend. Let's say it's a new friend.

So this isn't a date. I just don't know.

On a date you might be generous and pay for the food, right? You might be generous. So.

But there's something about them ordering two pies and then, and then not even being like, can I. Can we split this? Like they.

Are they at your house or are you at their house?

They come over.

I think sometimes that also makes up for it a little bit. Like, if I have friends who come to me, I always get the takeout. I would never be like, let's split it. Because they've traveled, they've driven, they've bothered to make the effort to come over to me, and I've just had to sit there and just be in my pajamas.

Fair enough.

But I groove you that two pizzas. I mean, who eats two whole pizzas?

I'd be, I would be fascinated. Firstly, just that they'd eaten two whole pizzas.

I think I'd be too impressed to care.

Matthew AI says the pizza one.

Yeah. I'm so curious to know what Matthew AI says.

This kind of behavior can feel inconsiderate. Ordering two whole pizzas at your house without offering to pay suggests a lack of awareness or respect for the balance in your dynamic. It's not about the money. It's about the principle of showing thoughtfulness and reciprocity. If it's a one off, it might just be a moment of thoughtlessness. But if it's a broader pattern, it's worth addressing. You could say something like, hey, I noticed you ordered the pizzas but didn't offer to chip in. I'd love for us to have A more balanced dynamic when it comes to things like this. How they respond will tell you a lot about their character. If they brush it off or get defensive, it might be a sign they're not interested in a fair and respectful relationship.

Matthew AI strikes again.

They were just there for the pizza.

It's very good.

So there we go.

All right, Well, I again go try Matthew AI ask mh.com while it's $7 for the whole month, a whole month of as many of those answers as you want, you can talk to Matthew AI by voice. You can have text exchanges. Whatever way you enjoy using Matthew AI, you can. You can use it to design your dating app profile. You can use it to help you come up with responses for what to text back when you get someone.

If you ask it for specific lines on anything, it's really, really good.

You can ask it to help you with your anxiety. If you have an anxious attachment style and it's tripping you up and sabotaging you in dating, you can ask what something means. If there's a behavior you're dealing with and you don't know how to, you know what it means and how to deal with it so that the context.

That you can give it, I think is the most useful part because you can really get very tailored responses to the things that you're asking it because you literally can say, I'm dating somebody. They are out six months out of a relationship that lasted three years, and their ex was like this. And as a result, they've been like that. And this is what I've noticed. And you give all of that context. So it can really give you a very, very tailored answer and very tailored advice to your specific situation.

So go try it. We are talking about it a lot today because today is the cheapest Matthew AI has ever been. And we're not doing that because it's not valuable. In fact, we think it's one of the most valuable things we have on offer. But we also want more people to actually come and experience it for the.

Price of a museum gift shop. Magnet.

Which magnet?

Depends on the museum. Van Gogh. Go. Van Gogh. An ear magnet. His ear. Not his ear. No.

For the price. Van Gogh. Ear magnet.

No. Starry night. Starry Night.

I mean, that sounds like a pretty good deal, actually.

Yeah, I think it does, too. Go to askmh.com to get your $7 for the entire month of Matthew AI right now. Or just try it for. All right, Stephen, we did want to finish today with just a couple of our lovely love Life listeners who had emailed in for some suggested names.

Yes. So we had some.

Now, we had been asking for the last few weeks for whether there are any good names for our Love Life members. And I. I gotta be honest, Steve, I'm starting to come to the conclusion that there is no name out there, that we are just going to end up sticking with Love Life members. But let's see if I can be persuaded.

Today, Lisa suggested Love chips as a kind of like. It can be like, place your chips.

Or it can be dipping chips.

Dipping chips. We had Lovelies from Caroline and we've had Hussars from Reeve. David and I looked at each other earlier and David said, isn't that a Hungarian cavalry unit, the Hussars? Yeah. And it was.

And it was.

It's a Hungarian cavalry unit, which.

So maybe not right for us.

So I don't really know where we are now. Deborah just did say, I like Steve's classic Pickles, Peaches and pears, but some people have not been into pickles, So I don't know. We're in a real pickle, dare I say.

Right. I don't. I see. I just. I stand by. I don't think we have it. We, you know, we've put. We've put the army to work on it and no one's come up with the thing yet. So it will come.

It will come at the right time, when it's supposed to come.

We'll see if people really get behind Pickles, Peaches.

I think it needs to be something like, you know, to all of our love life somethings. Right. And I don't. I can't see any of the words we've currently got on the end of that. You know what I mean? I just don't. I just don't see it.

Stephen's really pushing for pickles, like in Mean Girls.

You've not been pushing. The name of your autobiography is going to be called Pushing Pickles.

Trying to make fetch happen.

Pickles did happen and now we're taking it away. It already happened.

All right, well, we. We live to pose this question another day. God help us. By the way, we are putting out the word to all of you here on the Love Life podcast who would like to ask a question on the podcast. We are looking for both written questions, but also specifically voice questions where you can just record a voice memo on your phone as long as it's in a quiet place and we can hear you clearly. And keeping it under 60 seconds. 30 seconds is also fine. The shorter the better, but up to 60 seconds you can send us either a written question or a voice memo to podcasty.com send it over and we are going to pick from some questions to air on the Love Life podcast and answer in real time. If you're a Love Life member, let us know that you're a Love Life member at the beginning of your email because Love Life members get priority access to asking questions. But we're also going to take some from everybody else too. So leave us a question or a voice memo@podcast.com we look forward to going through those. And don't forget to go try Matthew AI@askmh.com if there is a question that you are dying to ask, having listened to this episode, something specific to yourself, go ask it right now. AskMH.com it is available to you instantly and you will get not just any answer, but my answer straight away. And of course, if you like it, take us up on the $7 for your entire first month offer, only available until Friday 25th May. Take care everybody and we'll see you in the next episode. Sam.