Amy Leong | Engel & Völkers

Foreign here. Very grateful, very excited to have Amy Lee on with me today. Amy, thank you for joining me.

Hey, thanks for having me, Matt.

No, I'm grateful. It's a pleasure to connect. And Amy is a little bit about Amy. So she is with the Amy and Allie team with Engel and Volkers. They're actually in the top 25 Engel and Volkers teams or agents in North America, which is pretty darn fantastic. Consistently in the top 100 agents in Greater Vancouver. So we're lucky to have her and she's a wonderful resource and will share some valuable information for us. So we're very excited. Amy, quick fun question. What's one thing not many people know about you?

One thing. Okay, I can walk on my hands. I was a gymnast for 10 years, extremely competitively and almost went. Yeah. Competed against the girl that went to Olympics. So I was on tv. Yeah, I was a pretty crazy gymnast. I was doing flips and twists and. Yeah. So I don't think anyone really knows that.

Got you ready for real estate, right? Flips and twists all day long. Yeah. That's funny. Thanks for sharing.

Asking. Just using your body instead.

Yeah. Was that, was that. So that would have been like national, like nationwide competitions.

Yeah, I almost went to like, the national Canada, and then my knees kind of didn't. Didn't feel the same way.

Yeah, it looks like a. Looks like a brutal sport on the body being very, very impact. Yeah.

Yeah, you pound your body, but yeah.

I'm glad you can still walk and everything's okay. So segueing from that then. So what happens? How did you find real estate? What got you started in your real estate career?

I would attribute it to a bunch of things, but I was always interested. And I had moved to Hawaii. That's another thing a lot of people didn't know about me. So I lived in Hawaii when I was 25 years old and I thought the beach bum life would be okay. I'd try it out. And a co worker I had left Telus that I was working at for many years, he had come, come to visit me on the island and I was showing him around and he brought his friend with him. And he had been chatting on the beach about real estate investment and, you know, just normal, two normal guys. And I thought, I said, how many do you own? And he said, oh, I'm buying my third property. And I thought, like, it just intrigued me. And I just like, felt, you know, like everyone has that, like, fire in their belly and we get sparks sometimes in life. And it was on a beach called Makapu, Oahu. And I felt that spark and I couldn't shut it off. And I was like, this is a normal guy, you know, he doesn't make a ton of money per year, but he's buying his third property. He's so young. He was under the age of 30. So needless to say, I couldn't not think about it anymore. I started going to meetup groups in Hawaii. I typed in on meetup.com and thought, I'm gonna, you know, surround myself with like minded people. I couldn't really stand anymore. The friends that I was around, they were flipping crepes and not stand. That's a, kind of a rude way to put it. But I just mean I wasn't, I didn't have a lot in common with people that just were like normal day to day. They just. I wanted to grow an empire and I just didn't know how to do it because I didn't have those friends. And so I thought, I'm just gonna have to meet strangers. So I did started looking at properties and then I came home after four months of being in Hawaii and I thought I wrote on my goal board. I said, I want to own three properties by 30. And I did it. I was only 25 at the time and just through learning and growing my own portfolio, I just naturally went into real estate. And now it's become a huge part of our business. And Ali and I, my partner Ali, we teach people, especially young people, how to do that because they're always told they can't afford it. And I'm going, hey. I was on a beach in Hawaii with no money, like, if I can do it, you can do it. And we've amassed, you know, we now own 10 properties between Ally and I. So it's, that's just what drove me to find real estate in a nutshell.

Wow. So cool. What a great story. I mean, on this beautiful beach, you meet these, these guys come by talking about real estate and you just knew and you had that, you had that white light. Yeah, the white light moment that just kind of, he's like, that's, that's for me, that's very cool. I know that what you mentioned, one thing there, which was really, I think, very, very important was that you surrounded yourself with people that knew what was, what to do. And I always like to say, like, that's one of the best benefits of doing this podcast and connecting with people that I respect in our industries is I feel like a lot of the times I'm not the smartest person in the room by far, so it's like, I can learn so much. Right. And it seems like you had that same attitude, which is. Which is so valuable.

And I think that's a good way to put it, because we're all sponges of information. It's not that we're. No one's less smart than someone else. It's just, how much can you soak in and. And then either regurgitate or collaborate? So if you don't have a skill, you're using someone else's and leveraging. So once I learned that, it was easier to grow and to build and feel like you're worthy of it and feel like it's possible. Otherwise, you're kind of sitting there going, I'm never gonna afford real estate. I'm never gonna be a good agent. I remember my own dad was like, how are you gonna be a top agent? There's 16,000 of them. And God bless him, because he's my biggest fan today. But I just said, dad, because I know I can. Like, it never crossed my mind that I couldn't. I would just. Every time that came up, I squashed it down. And I was like, no, I'm doing this because I know that I'm gonna be a good agent because, you know, of xyz and I'm gonna. I'm not gonna stop until I get to the top kind of mentality.

That's so cool. So it brings us right into. So what do you love about what you do? What keeps you going? Obviously getting to this level.

Yeah, I think it's. It first started with people saying that, like, a few people along the way, and I think all of us have that is, you know, the feeling that they don't want you to succeed or that maybe you can't do it. And that's just been this, like, burning thing inside me that's kept me going. And, you know, Ali and I are very competitive, not with each other, but, like, we just love. It's fun, right? To kind of always try to reinvent yourself to get to the next level. And sometimes people will say, well, how do you girls sell so much? Like, you know, we always usually sell 100 homes a year, just the two of us. And for us, it's not about other people. Like, say an average agent does 12 deals a year. That's not us, because we don't want to. Like, we don't care about those statistics. So it's really what you care about as a person. Like if you want to be the top mortgage broker in Canada, it doesn't matter what like you know, the other person's doing next to you at Invis Mortgage or TD or it doesn't matter. So I think that's one of the things that I love. Sorry, got off on a tangent there but. And then the biggest thing that I love about real estate is just helping, helping people achieve like a financial freedom. Like I think we can all curate a lifestyle that we want. Like it's, it's not real estate. Like I think if you look at it in real estate terms, like you know, day in and day out selling properties that you know, somewhat look like each other and it can get boring. But if you know that it's building something to achieve something else, it's, it really like keeps us going. Like we want our clients to afford a, a place in Hawaii, a place in Cabo, a place in Europe. Like that's what we plan with them. We sit down and it's like, I feel like it's like a chess game, like a giant life chess. Like you're constantly trying to plan. Like how can they get to their kits Solano dream home when they currently live in Surrey, you know, in an up and down suite. Like that's the stuff that really drives me. I love like those complex things that I can help people with and really simplify it and that's what I never had and that's what I've like strived to teach people. I want to sit down with you and I want to know even if it sounds ridiculous to own a three million dollar house and kits, I'm not going to tell you that it's ever ridiculous. Never. I don't care what job you have, where you come from, I'm going to tell you how to do it. But you have to be the person that does it. And thankfully for our clients, a lot of them have that gusto in them. They want their, you know, they're achievers and we'll help them with their first property and we'll help them with their.

10Th, you know, so yeah, no, that's great stuff. I'm a big fan of gentleman named Donald Miller who has a company called Story Brand. He talks about stories and creating, creating that in just a narrative. And he talks about a lot about like us as the expert or whatever you want to call it. We're just a guide. Like we're not the hero in the story, they're the hero. They're the ones that are actually going to Achieve what they achieve. We can only just be there side by side and help them get there. Which sounds like what you're doing is just, how do we walk this together? And then you be the star at the end of the day, which is so cool. Right?

That's like the best part, I think is. Yeah, seeing, seeing them achieve, like, it always bugged me when I would see realtor marketing and I would see their big, you know, it would be like the house in black and white in like a tiny square. And then you'd see this big realtor's face on the card and you're going, this is about you, dude or lady. Like, this isn't. We don't want us. Like, they want to see the property. And that's what Ali and I are trying to do with like, you know, it is about clients winning and it is about their finances and their retirement funds and, you know, their inheritance money. And it's like, how do you take care of that so well that they just keep on, you know, coming back to us.

Yeah, I know on your website you have. Under the about. You have client love. So I think that just sums it right up. Right? It's just love on the client and it always comes back tenfold. So that's so cool. If you weren't, if you weren't in real estate, do you see yourself? Is there anything else that you. That you've wanted to or would love to try or you just look at you go. That would be. That would be ideal for me.

That's a tough one because literally I eat, breathe and sleep real estate. But I would say building. Is that allowed in the real estate realm? Because we're currently building a home in a little ski in town in B.C. that so something like. I love design and I love. I probably take architecture classes or design classes, so I could. I call it cultural fusion. Like one day I want to build a house that has like, you know, Moroccan themed rugs and things from Turkey. And I want to bring like everything together into beautiful architecture here because I think Vancouver so young and we have some really, really stunning houses, but I think we could do a lot better. So I would probably not sell real estate, but I would build it. But other than that, I don't know. It'd be hard to. I'd have to do like a girl, like a women in business type of thing. Like a school. I could totally see myself later running like a school to teach not even just women, but young people how to further themselves in business. I think I could Totally do that, too.

Yeah. It sounds like you could probably do any of those and do just fine with just the passion and the belief, and that's really the biggest thing. Right. So we're talking. It's near the end of June, and we're sort of ramping into opening things up. I guess phase three is on the horizon, which is. Which is so exciting. And just the great news, just in terms of B.C. and Vancouver in general, from. From a number standpoint and just handling things that we're so lucky. Do you have any advice on the current market for anyone that's looking to buy or sell a home right now?

Yeah, I think I don't want to tell them not to be scared to put their home on the market. I think if you're a detached house, you would very much want to put your home on the market right now. You'd get top dollar. The inventory is so, so, so low. Ali and I just sold one in East Van, and it was a probate estate sale, and we had 14 offers. We sold it $261,000 over asking. And I got calls. To this day, I'm still about five calls a day. So, you know, Eastman is red hot. We do see, like, I would. My suggestion is to follow the trends, you know, for yourself and for investors out there. There's been, like an exodus a little bit from the city core. So we're finding. We're in Port Moody a lot. We're in Willoughby, Walnut Grove, South Surrey, because people are finding that they can get more bang for their buck and they can get their home office or maybe even a double office and, you know, an extra two bedrooms for $100,000 cheaper at least. So it's just interesting to see where people are going. So we're definitely out there a little bit more than normal. And then you see people that. I always follow the trends of the baby boomers and the inheritance money, and tapping into that is going to be really big in the next five to 10 years. You have to follow those two trends. Inheritance on one hand, baby boomers on the other. I can't stress enough in mortgage or in real estate to other advisors. You need to understand that inside and out, which is why getting that, you know, figuring out the chess pieces and being able to teach people and guide them is so important, because if they don't have that guidance from you, they're gonna go to someone else. So we always try to figure that out for people. And then just vacation homes, we're helping a lot of people that want Cabins and you know, Sunshine coast is red hot. Multiple offers are crazy out there. I think that's a great spot for builders and developers to do some flips. I usually don't say that because some of our builders and our developers were stopping flipping because the market wasn't there. But now there are pockets where that actually works quite well. And then other than that, yeah, I think everyone kind of wants a little secondary home. And so Whistler, Squamish. Squamish is like a lot of interest in Squamish. Again, you know, people are rather driving that beautiful drive than maybe the other way and sitting in traffic. So it's just different feeling. So it's exciting to see where people are. People want to move. So I do think the trend is summer is the new spring market. It's already crazy again. People, you know, for downtown they want a one bedroom in den that's minimum 700 square feet. We're helping a lot of young professionals, doctors, lawyers, like probably in their early 40s or late 30s that are ready to go and they have either saved their money through their whole 20s and mid-30s and they're ready to buy. And so I do think if you can afford it to get something that is a little bit larger because people are wanting space, especially after quarantine and you know, the whole Covid thing they do. I think before everything was really shrinking and I think now, especially if you're a couple or a family, like you are wanting the big, bigger, the more rooms and the bigger square footage. So that's what we've been seeing, that's for sure.

Yeah, a lot, a lot of, lot of great information to unpack there. I mean it's go back through and there's, there's a lot of really, really good points and I think what you said just, just highlighting on it is, you know, Vancouver and greater Vancouver and just surrounding. It's such a unique market. It's so hard to compare it to other places. You know, global trends sometimes don't even impact it. It's just a very, very interesting market where it stayed quite as you said, very, very active over the last few weeks especially. And which is, which is amazing and what you said, which is space and realizing how important home is and all these different things that maybe a lot of people weren't thinking about over the last few years is amazing too. It's like this is so valuable especially when something like that that we've gone through happens. You're like, oh my goodness, how important is it to be Home and to live somewhere that gives you comfort. So yeah, thank you for that. I really appreciate that. Really, really good, good information.

Another thing that we've been seeing is we've been selling a lot of one bedrooms and we've been telling our clients, you know why, you know, they've made such a big swing up on their one beds from say, you know, if they bought it pre 2015 or pre before the market went so crazy. They have so much equity and tax free wealth there. So what we've been doing is we've been selling that. They get tons of money in their pocket without any tax and then they get to upgrade to a two bed which will for the foreseeable future the demographic for baby boomers will be there. So we're setting them up again. It's like, you know, okay, one bed, tax free wealth, two bed or three bed. And then for the baby boomers who will downsize. They're not going to downsize to a one bed. I tell you that right now. That's good. If you're an investment and you're a tech person and a professional and those are great in the city core for sure. Always get a one bed or anything you can afford in the city core. But, but the two bed for your next move is so smart because that's where all the developers are going if you see the trend. They're building two and three bedroom condos. And I just got an offer on our Ali and I have a listing in South Surrey that was a three bed. And the people that you know, came to that three bed, I could just see it so clearly. And they were the exact, if I could duplicate them all, they were like each the same demographic and I was almost, you know, I was kind of staring at them and they probably thought I was some weirdo. And I was just thinking, you are the future of what is gonna happen for these three beds. Because they don't want stairs. It's like our parents, like my dad's, like, there's no way I want stairs. So try to stay away, I would say from the skinnier townhomes that are tandem. Like sell those if you have them right now and get a double car garage, wider floor plan and something that maybe even have as a master bedroom on the main. You will for sure do very well if you make that switch right now. So little tidbits I could go on forever. Sorry. But like those are the things I just think if people really hone in on, they're going to do extremely well for themselves. In the next like five to ten years.

Yeah, great points. I mean it's coming. There's going to be a big influx of the downsizers and the baby boomers. It's, you know. Yeah, I think you're bang on and it'll be very, very interesting to see what that does and what it frees up. A lot of, a lot of financial switching of hands, A lot of influx of capital going to different generations over the coming years. It'll definitely create different new pockets of opportunities which I think you just highlighted on beautifully. Back to other fun things. In terms of real estate, you've seen a lot of homes, you've been involved with a lot of transact. Is there one property or situation that you can think of that's probably the most memorable one that I've been a part of?

Oh, totally. This one's easy because it was my first, the biggest listing that I've got, say kind of by myself. And it turns out that I had lived in their basement suite years earlier in Surrey when I was like totally broke, putting myself through university, working full time. I was living in their basement suite. They, you know, the one guy was, would shovel behind my little Toyota or my Civic, my Honda Civic just to get me out of there, cul de sac so I could go to university. And I showed up to the listing appointment and they were like, Amy. And so I got the listing, it was like a 2.4 million dollar listing and sold the house. It was like the only second sale in that whole year, over $2 million. I put my heart and soul into that listing. But I'll always remember that because it was so special and I, it kind of proved that I was like worthy, you know, like that feeling like, you know, I'm, I was living in this basin suite and now I'm selling over 2 million dollar property. Like it was just so cool and special. And I'm still in touch with those guys today and I just cherish them. So yeah, I will always remember that sale.

Yeah, that's again like what a switch, right? You go from being downstairs to helping them sell the property. Like, you know, it's a mental thing too where it's oh, this is, this is real. I do deserve this. I've worked very hard and you know, I've achieved this. And yeah, I mean those first, those first situations or transactions are just deals that you're a part of where it's, you're like, that's, that's pretty impressive. Like, that's really cool. And to be Able to look back on it and remember it and keeps driving you forward. I think that's so cool.

Yeah, it was very cool experience.

I talk to clients about how's rich creating good debt versus bad debt, tax deductible debt versus bad debt, especially from their home. We don't have a lot of. We don't have a lot of opportunities to write off interest in real estate in Canada. So we have to get a little bit more creative sometimes. And being that, we can utilize that to invest in the markets, we can use it to purchase other properties. That's what I like to talk to clients about. But when I say house rich, what does that mean to you? What do you think of?

So we have a funny saying, kind of like on the lines of house rich, where we say we are cash poor, but we're condo rich or house rich. And we say that all the time because obviously, as you probably know, women love handbags and they love expensive things. And sometimes that, you know, you add those all together and you blink and you're like, oh, my gosh, I could have bought two condos for that amount of money shopping, right? Or for guys, it might be a motorcycle or fancy car, whatever it may be. So I think for us, house rich would mean, you know, do you have enough money? You know, whether it saved away? I think Covid says it all. Like, it really gave us a shake to say, are you over leveraged? Do you have any savings? You're supposed to have three to six months worth of living expenses with or without a job. And to be honest, I never even had that saved. Everybody I know was either heavily invested or didn't have a lot left over per month after paying their expenses. So I would just say don't. No matter what happens, Covid, the market crash is whatever happens. If you haven't padded yourself and you're not insulated and you haven't set yourself up for a savings plan and you've over leveraged yourself, you're going to get really hurt during times like this. And I feel bad for people because no one expected, obviously, something like this, but it could be something else. Like we could have. You know, they're saying this virus has, you know, a thousand different variations. So I think the main thing is don't stop. Everything you're doing, don't stop investing. Like, I know for Ali and I, we're never gonna stop buying it. You know, you see the fruits of your labor and you go, okay, this is really cool, because it is neat to be house rich and for me personally, I want a place in Cabo that I can use with family and my partner. And when I'm not there, I can rent it out. So. And then I want one in Hawaii because Hawaii is quite dear to me. So I think it depends what you want to do. But I won't over leverage to make that happen. I'm more of like a calculative risk person, whereas some people just jump right in and try to figure it out with as little money down and you know, a lot of home equity lines of credits and do that. If you have, you know, if you're, some of our clients are making a million dollars a year, no problem. But if you are 60,000 a year, maybe don't buy that third property unless it's with, you know, family or you're safe. That's, you know, then you'll be house poor. So I think that's the key is just don't over leverage. And if you are over leveraging it, better have crazy cash flow and not be one resource dependent. Because I had a lot of friends that bought in Dawson's Crib Creek, Fort St. John, and they were holding the bag for years, you know, and a lot of people were touting, oh, cash flow this, cash flow that. Cash flow is amazing. But not if you have vacancy and not if, you know, a pipeline doesn't go through and no one's going there. So another thing that I like to teach clients is what are you buying? Because it's okay if it's, you know, a little bit negative cash flow, like 50 to 100 bucks a month if it's in a solid area with the best tenants, because then your house rich. But if it's like somewhere in nowheresville that there's no economic fundamentals, you're gonna get really caught. And that's when it's not fun anymore because you get burned. And then you stop investing and then you stop growing your wealth and then you get, you know, like those things happen. So, you know, this is a good talk because it's reminding me of, you know, okay, well, what are my assets and how are my tenants and where are we? So it's always good to like have a check in right, of like your finances. So these talks are always like, great.

So, well, we'll schedule another time to go through that together. But the, you know, I believe that everything happens for a reason. It's trying to teach us something. And you know, the good news is even if you didn't have that situation previously, like three to six months you didn't have that, you know, cash flow under control. It didn't have the situation. The good thing is you can start today and it can just keep going the right direction over the next into the future. So I'm sure a lot of people have learned and hopefully not had to take too much of a hit, but then also just realized that, hey, you know, things are out of my control. I can't control these kinds of things. Let's just be ready for whatever comes our way. And security is so important. So, yeah. Amy, thank you. Very grateful to have you here for connecting.

I appreciate it.

Yeah, no absolute pleasure. Where would be the best place for anyone that's looking to chat about real estate? Where can they find you?

So our website's amyandalli.com they have to use the HTTPs colon secure server, but they can book like a consultation with us. And then also on Instagram, it's amyames with two Zs. And then, yeah, we're around. It's easy to find us. Yeah, we just did a speaking event with Inman Connect that was super fun with like Ryan Serhant and all those powerhouses. So we're always kind of doing these speaking things and we really appreciate it because I think the more people that are concerned and you know, or even just talking about things like this, it just helps financial literacy across the board. And that's what I think. You, I see, are very passionate about it and so are we. Helps everybody in the world. So thank you again.

Thank you. I appreciate it. We'll be in touch.

Okay. Thanks, Matt. See you later, Gu.