108: The Magic of Not Normal - Lessons w/ Brandon Cockrell

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Welcome to Grief and Guts. I'm your host, Melissa Dugulecki. It is my honor and privilege to serve you by sharing stories, tools, interviews and strategies that will help you transition from what do I do now? How do I get through this? Those feelings of overwhelm and uncertainty to truly standing in your power. It is from my grief journey in losing my daughter Layden in 2014 that I learned, practiced, was exposed to all these tools, but they are not grief specific. In fact, they apply universally to all of our unique situations. You've already done the hard part by showing up, by opening up to something new. So without any further ado, let's get to the good stuff that's going to help you in your journey.

Let's dive in. All right, everybody. Welcome back to Grief and Guts, the podcast. I'm Melissa Dubleki, your host and I am so excited about the guest that we have joining us today. From Ed, Georgia, Brandon Cockrell is the founder and president of Linchpin Sales. He's a performance marketing expert and most importantly, you know, he's a father. He is a father whose children really shaped his trajectory and why he's doing what he's doing. And he and I are going to be diving in today about adversity shapes our reality, whether it's in entrepreneurship or in life. But how defining moments, certain defining moments in our life, whether joyful or painful or both, can completely shift your so join me in welcoming. Brandon, welcome to the show.

What's going on? I just thank you obviously for giving me the opportunity to be here. Super excited. Love your work and everything you're about. So I just want to start with that. And as you noted there, I'm the Linchpin Sales Interactive started about six and a half years ago. At the end of the day, we are an E commerce marketing, full service marketing team. So we help people as simply as it sounds. We help people sell their products and services profitably online. That is at the end of the day what we do. But we're a little unique one through our own experience, I built my own business doing the exact same stuff we do for others, which is a huge, it's a huge opportunity there. Whenever you're going through and you've actually been in the trenches but from the other side of it, you know, whenever it comes to what we're really focused on, that's at the end of the day, how can we take the basic press of gotta build awareness, you gotta build trust, you gotta build credibility and you gotta get people to tell your story for you and what's the best way to do that? And we really take all that old for clinics and not only market their products, but make sure they're converting and then obviously continuing to grow. So in a big scheme of things, that's, that's really what we're all about, to dive in. Kind of how we got here, which isn't. Hasn't been a straight line, but I assume we'll get into a lot of that during our conversation.

Yeah. And I brought up that it's not a straight line because so often and I talk in relation to grief or adversity.

Right.

And here in this space, we don't define grief as just death.

Right.

It can be the loss of a relationship, it could be moving, a change in sense of self, a change of traditions.

Right.

All of these things that essentially detour us from what we see as a straight path as to how it's supposed to be or how it should go to that envisioned straight path and like clear trajectory that we miss so much of what's available in the detour. So I would love like if we just talked the detours and the off roading and how maybe those challenges.

Yeah. So, I mean, there's so many to go through. I think from a high level it is really. So this, this journey has opened my eyes up to things that I was pretty much, I guess my natural way of thinking just thought that these things weren't real. A lot of mindset work, a lot of making sure that you got to put certain things first in order for you to be able to get to where you ultimately want to go in the business and really making sure those things foundationally. Right. And you know, that's probably been the biggest thing that I've learned, especially when since I stopped working, just kind of, I started this business, you know, what I was planning on doing to where I am now are almost. They have some relevancy, but they're, they're nothing compared to what I initially started with. And a lot of the, the ups and downs and a lot, a lot of the work in order for me to grow and continue. All right. I felt like I'd gotten somewhere, but now I'm looking up and here's another cliff right in front of me. How do I get over that? You know, and, and it's very clear when you hit it and you've got to figure out how do I take that next step. And normally, at least for me, it was a lot of mentality, it was a lot of working within to take that next big leap. And so I've been very, very last, over the last few years, really big on mentorship, really big on mentality, really big on making sure that I've got things in place outside of the business. And those were things that, if you talk to me about it, you know, seven, eight years ago, right before I started this, I would have told you there's, there's, there's no truth to any of that. You know, it's just kind of rah, rah stuff. Like, I don't. My mind's good. I feel like I'm mentally strong. You know, I've had tests throughout my life. I can do it. But little did I know that it was just going to expose that and force me if I wanted to get to where I wanted to go. I knew how to make big changes.

Oh, I love hearing that. I mean, my background is mindset coaching. My entrepreneurial journey started as a mindset coach, which I began studying after the loss of my daughter Layden. You know, I had studied social emotional learning when I was in education. I studied psychology in college. And so I'd had that background, but. But I didn't really understand mindset until I had to really begin working on mine. So often I hear people think that, well, I'm not broken, so I don't need to work on my mindset. Or if I work on my mindset, that means there's something wrong with me. Can you speak into that at all, either your own experiences or what you've witnessed?

Yeah. And so, you know, and kind of taking a step back, I mean, I think one thing that bothers me, whenever it comes to the whole mindset thing, or whenever somebody mentions a therapist, for example, just because people know that word or they, they're going to go work on, on something with their mindset or the way that they view things and they look at it in a lot of people, and I think you see it being talked about more today than ever is that that's a negative. And no, I can't do that. I can't go work on that because that means something's wrong with me. And it's like to me, it's. I want to be a better version of me. So if, if I continue to want that and I want to continue growing and I want to make a big impact, that I do, I need to be able to think better and be better whenever it comes to my thought process or how I deal with things or the, the way that I view things, my perspective needs to change because I continued. And for me, a few months from going, I'm stuck. I need to do something, get out of it. Well, what are my options? Continue doing what I'm doing physically, or there's got to be something there. There's a reason why these people are up here where I want to go, and I'm still here. And so why not tap into that and go, maybe there's more I can learn. And if you're coaching or mentorship or therapy or whatever it is, like, it's not a negative. You're just trying to be better. Like, don't you want to feel better? Don't want to look at things better? Don't want to be more positive? That's the way I view it. I tell people all the time, like, no, you need to go talk to somebody. It's crazy. Like, you need to go. And not like, oh, I'm going to air out all my dirty. No, go talk to them, because they'll be able to identify things that you don't even realize are holding you back. And that is the know what. What opened my eyes up to it big time. And, you know, I have a little bit unique perspective. I grew up where depression was a big, big, big issue in my household. You know, really stemming from her, whenever he was fired to, you know, that just sparked a whole, you know, series of years of him, me seeing him being depressed through that process and. And my mom with a whole different side of things dealt with it and, you know, that, you know, ultimately to just instinctively think that I was going to be burdened with it, the struggle. But the one thing that it did is it made me very interested in what causes this. And so I've always kind of thought that way. But it wasn't really until we found out we were pregnant, my wife and I, obviously, I say, wait. With our daughter nine years ago, as we were talking, she. She's nine years old and she'll tell you she just passed her half birthday. So, you know, it's big time. You know, we found out 20 week anatomy sketch, she's going to be born with a birth defect. You know, at the time it just seemed like a cleft lip and palate. We didn't know, like, basically for next six months, we didn't know if she was going to come up with some type of, you know, there's so many different things that could be connected with it. And they were prepping us for. She could be bored and not make it an hour or a year or whatnot. And the only way to very risky type test, which my wife didn't want to do. I didn't want to do that either. Like, we wanted to. To go through it. And we had to put a lot that created a lot that opened up a lot of doors and that I didn't know existed. And once those open, it's hard to get them back shut unless you really, really put effort into it. That's kind of where everything's going. But I think it kind of led me understand that there is a whole different world that is capable when you allow it and you allow others to help you.

Thank you for sharing all of that. And as I heard you talking, I just went right back to. To pain and the grief. I mean, you are grieving a healthy pregnancy. Ultimately, you were grieving that. The joy around the experience and the excitement, because it was so heavy, I'm sure, with fear. And for me, I don't know if this resonates, but there's. Especially around that grief and especially around as a parent, there's powerlessness that you feel like you can't. You can't fucking do anything.

No. Yeah, yeah.

How did you navigate that?

Well, not very well for the first several months. I mean, it was. Look, it was. It was a very, very dark time. And it made me realize just how. How big of an issue I had with not being able to control something. And I never thought, hey, I've got to be in control of every little thing but me in my mindset, not being able to work out or maybe plan or predict or know. And I was going to have to wait six months for that to happen. It drove me literally crazy. Like it was just constant and I could not. I couldn't figure out an answer. And what had gotten me to that point. Then it made me start looking back on my life up to that point and realizing, wait a minute, that's what I was dealing with at that moment. You know, I didn't know it until it got so bad dressed. And then at that point, that's whenever I was able to look back and go, wait, this has been an issue I didn't think I had, but it had created all this stress. It had created all this anxiety over these years, but I didn't even realize that I was dealing with that until I had. It got so bad to where I had to address it from that standpoint. And, you know, it was a blessing in disguise. But it wasn't easy. I mean, I. Within a matter of a few weeks, I think I probably lost 15 pounds during that time, Something like that. I mean, it was like, I remember I had to go to urgent care because I thought that I was having a heart attack. All that, you know, just like little stuff like that during the. You put yourself through and then you think the world is caving in and falling at that moment. But, you know, looking back on it now, obviously, and everything that I've done prior to that and just seeing how things turned out and. Yeah. Has she had to go through a ton of surgeries and is she out of the woods? No, she. She hasn't and she's not. But she is phenomenal. And I could not. Like, she inspires me because of the way that she deals with it. And I look back on all this stuff just going. It was definitely a rough patch, that's.

For sure, of course, and still bringing layers of trust and surrender and. And faith and doing the best you can and controlling what you can and letting go of what you can't. I'm sure spoken to something I think is really important to just drive home for anyone listening to really kind of reflect on. You spoke into how these things kind of came up, like around control or other things. And they were there before. It was just that they were flushed up now. And this is really important because I actually say this in entrepreneurship, and I said it in grief. Like I say entrepreneurship is humanship. It will. When you're squeezed, it will flush up. Like, if you. If you have like little bits of comparison, it's just going to amplify comparison. If you have avoidance, it's going to amplify avoidance.

Right.

So entrepreneurship will just amplify a lot of your things because it's just like you're kind of an impression cooker at times. Grief is the same thing. I'll never forget when my grief coach said to me, melissa, grief doesn't actually create anything. It just takes a magnifying glass to. So if someone's angry, they're going to experience like a whole new level in their grieving process more intensely. If somebody's anxious, they're going to experience anxiety at a much more intensified level of grief. But it's not that grief created these things. Grief can't create it. Grief can evoke it. And entrepreneurship can't necessarily create it, but it can evoke it. Which is why I think doing the work, not when shit hits the fan. You don't have all this stuff coming up that you're like, oh, my God, I didn't even know that was there. If that does happen, which was my case even. Not like my life wasn't broken. Like, I had a great job, like, you know, I was really happy, great, you know, whatever. And I really wanted to try this one for any listening is like, it gave me the playground and the space to go be like, okay, I get to clean house right now. And how am I going to. To your point, Support my mindset, support my emotional intelligence, support my toolbox so that like, I am so much more empowered to my circumstance.

It's crazy. I mean, it's not necessarily not talk to my wife in the business with me as well. The one thing that we talk about, especially whenever it comes to stress or anxiety and all that, is that it. Look, it's not that I'm going to be able to get rid of that, you know, it's. It's going to happen. I'm going to always have moments that I feel anxious about something because that's the way that I do believe that I am wired to some degree. The change is, and the beauty of it is being able to identify what it is and what it isn't whenever it comes to feeling those feelings. Right? So I know, wait a minute. This feeling, this is my anxiety working up. I identify it and I'm able to then do something to negate it and do that fast and recenter. Whereas in the past it just continued to build up and grow and grow and grow and grow and grow until I thought I was going to have a panic attack or, you know, I felt like I was having a heart attack because I felt so much pressure on my chest. Now because of just what I've, you know, done and really put an effort in doing over the last several years now, you know, I'm able to identify that, make decisions a lot more freely and clearly because I'm aware of what's happening. And by becoming aware of what's happening, I no longer worry about all these other things because I've identified it. I know it's something that happens internally, and then I know how to adjust for it really quickly and then get back on track. And that's been huge, especially during the entrepreneurship journey and over the last several years. I mean, you're basically getting punched in the face every single day, and you've got to be able to bounce back quickly and it's not that. And you've got to be able to manage those feelings because you're going to be hit with them on a daily basis. I think I go through every range of emotion on a daily basis from the Second, I wake up to, you know, the time I'm going to bed. And so, you know, having a clear understanding of what. What it is, what it is and being aware of who you are and how you process things and how you view things and how you react to things and decisions that you make are the difference between getting from one point to getting to the next point. And I don't think people realize that. I. And because of what we do as well, I see it in a lot of partners that we work with that we're either helping them scale or grow. And you can. I can almost identify it real time where you kind of realize that they've hit a bit of this speed bump and they just cannot get past it. And, you know, my thought process is always just, I know I've hit a speed bump. I need to continue going harder at the mental challenge. I need to continue working harder. Obviously, I'm not there yet, but I know that the answer is somewhere up here. But I can't see the forest through the trees. And I need to then go and obviously have help and ask for help whenever it comes to that so that then I can work through that and then take that next jump in that next leap. And I just see it happen so much. And people get, you know, they get in their own way from taking that next step in their journey. And I. And they don't realize that you've got the tools to get there. You've gotten to this point, all you've done is you just hit this one little wall. And instead of looking at everything that's happening on the surface, you probably need to look at what's happening internally, because that's what's holding you back. It's not everybody else. Everybody else that you're hiring, if you're blaming, you know, maybe you're like, well, I made a bad hire, or the company or the vendor or the partner's not doing what they're supposed to be doing or any of this other stuff, and it's like they're trying to help you. There's very rare times where you go and you hire somebody or you do business, you get in a joint venture or anything like that, where they're not wanting to see you succeed. So if that's the case and you believe in that, which I do, 99.9% of the time, maybe a few. Few here and there don't want you to be successful. But no, they won't. They want to help you. And if that's the case, then maybe it's just all internal and you just kind of identify that of how you can take that next step. And that's where the block is. It's not everybody else. And that's the hardest thing to see as what we've just been talking about. Like it's hard to identify until you actually do it once or twice or three times and you start to see the difference and feel the difference just in certain things that I know I clearly can identify. This time something will happen that three years ago I would have been in a corner, balled up, crying with my thumb in my mouth. You know what I mean? Like, I would have been, you know, trembling and now I look back on it and I'm just the same type situation. It's more viewed in my mind now is where's the opportunity from this happening? So yeah, it's very important. All of that ties into entrepreneurship. If you want to continue, you've got to. It will help you in both worlds working on the middle aspect of things.

Well, of course, because how you do anything is how you do everything. So the way in which you're managing your emotions and your mindset, your life or parenting or whatever it is is going to show up in how you manage your business or your work life, right? For anyone listening, like wherever it is, like things will show up in different ways. And to your point, like there's no finish line to doing the work. I just, every year it's just, I just invest more. Like that's the only that changes. I just invest at a higher level.

Right?

I know last year I just, it was a year ago this weekend actually I did an emotional intelligence, like transformational program. And I kind of walked in thinking, I know all this. I was a mindset coach. I did, you know, neuro linguistic programming. I'm like, I've been, I've been doing this like. And man, the things that I was projecting without realizing it subconsciously on how I was being received or perceived or not was all my internal dialogue. And it was being in like an actual in person container that like flashed it up at a whole new level. And so every time that happens, I'm just like, oh, here we go again. Like this is another layer. And to your point, what's the opportunity here? Whether it's something you chose, like going to a program or working with a coach, right. Or something you didn't choose, like complications with your child's birth.

Right.

Or somebody listening, maybe you lost a job or a relationship ended, whatever it may be, what is the opportunity? Because the opportunity is there. And so if we're gonna go through it, if we're gonna go through the breakup, if we're gonna be dealing with our child health challenges, if we're going to, you know, be moving or whatever it is, going through some type of loss, we're going to go through it. Well, we might as well at least also get the roi, the opportunity available and not just the pain of it. And I think that's so important that people think you. They can't get the opportunity or they don't see it, or they don't want to see it, or they think finding it means that, like, they're okay with what's happened. Like, no, I'm not okay with my daughter laden passing. I'll never be like, okay with it. But I'm not sure as hell not going to miss out on all the lessons and opportunities and what I've learned from it, for sure.

And the impact that you can have by opening up and sharing your story, you know, and like just talking through it and allowing others to see what you're doing and how you deal with and the moves that you make and become an inspiration and something where it gives people hope to where they in the past would not have been that way, you know, and just knowing that she went through this and I see what she's doing now, and that gives me a little bit of hope and a positive feeling whenever you probably don't think that that's ever going to happen again. And so to your point of that roi, the experience, like, it doesn't mean necessarily that you're going to make billions of dollars off that opportunity. That's not the goal, but it's that how do I turn this into something that allows me to continue making a difference in feeling fulfilled and having a purpose? I think. You know, it's funny we're having this conversation, I just said having a purpose because I think that that's a big thing. And that's exactly what our message was. That's the day was all about purpose and all that. And, and, but looking at it that way, and it wasn't until I really started putting and investing in help in these areas, whenever it comes to mindset and all of that, that it's opened my eyes up to looking at everything is, yes, this stinks, it sucks. But where is the opportunity? There's always an opportunity somewhere. Then you've always just got to be looking for it and identifying it. And that will help you get through what you're dealing with. I promise.

So good. Yeah. What I'm hearing from you is the willingness. Like, are you willing. So I look at the opportunity. Are you willing to put in the work? And so what advice would you have to somebody who is, you know, facing adversity? I know you said like, you can't climb without adversity. And you mentioned how going through what you went through with your daughter, you know, continuing to navigate, sparked your entrepreneurial journey. So for the past version of you that maybe didn't feel sparked into entrepreneurial journey at that time, or didn't feel like, I can't climb without adversity.

Right.

Who maybe felt more of the weight and the overwhelm and the heaviness of it, how would you support somebody in navigating through that? Like, what advice would you have for them?

Good question. One day you'll look back and going through that time and I'm assuming we're trying to talk about during. While they're. They're kind of in the midst of that. That. So to speak. Right?

Yeah. Because you and I are looking back on. On.

Yeah.

Okay. Like we, we got, we. We got here and now, like it's a little bit easier to talk about person who's not here.

Right.

They don't feel here yet.

Yeah. And look, it's. While you're going through the storm, I think the first thing that I would highly recommend is just first of all know that you're not the only one who has ever gone through something like this and that it's temporary and don't make decisions based off of current circumstances and what you're going in. Don't look and say, well, I'm just going to go off and live this whole entire life or whatever because I'm feeling like this in this very moment. Just know that it's temporary and that regardless of what you're feeling, because I've been, I've been at the low of the lows. Right. And in that worry, I didn't think there was a light at the end of the tunnel. You know what I mean? Like in where you get caught up and you hear like, I've been in that scary dark place before where you feel like there's nothing I'm going to be able to do to get out of this. And it's scary. It is a, it is a fucked up place to be. You know what I mean? And it's, it's during that moment, you've got to be able to look at it and go, this is temporary. There is a way out. But I've got to be willing to get up off the couch or wherever you're feeling these and go out and start doing something about it. It's just not going to correct itself. And a lot of times it goes back to the basics is the way that I always kind of looked at it. What did I used to do that gave me joy? What did I. Who, who can I talk to that I think right now would listen, you know, and tap into that and go there and go do it yesterday and just start putting the wheels back in motion. Start, you know, today I really talk and, you know, really talk about the difference it's made since I hired a personal trainer about 18 months ago. And just when things get down and I start feeling like that just getting re energized with something is the key. Because you get stuck in this little bit of a hole and you can't get out. And if you don't do anything to actively help yourself get a little bit positive fault in your brain, it's just going to continue to drive you further and further down. And so you've got to first stop it. And usually that is some type of activity that's getting back to something that you used to do. A lot of that I assume you're probably not doing anymore because that's why you've kind of gotten. And it's, you know, it's a, it's a snowball effect. Whenever you start getting into these storms and you allow it to continue controlling you. The thing is, is that you still control you. You've just got to change your actions and you've got to do it at a very small step at a time. And you can't look at it as I need tomorrow to be a glorious day. You got to look at how do I just make it through this next hour and what can I do that'll allow me to maybe feel a little bit differently? And even if you've got to do it minute by minute, but I would just look at it if I can just, you know, do one more day and try to accomplish this or go talk to somebody tomorrow or go find a mentor or go find a friend, go find a family member that you can tap into. Right. Each one of those, if you stay consistent with, puts a little positive deposit, you know, in your brain and you start, you start working yourself out of it and, you know, trying to really think back at that time, that's just all that I, I remember was I had obviously a bigger mission and I knew that there was more out There that was going to be done and that I needed to work and correct us, but it was in baby steps, and it was just each day trying to. To get my mind back and get past it. Then once you break through it, you're going to be on a whole different level. And that happens quicker to some than others. But that would be my thing, is the storms are going to happen. You just got to understand that you're still in control, but you've got to take the necessary steps to do that. And that can just be little things here and there to help you get out and do it.

Yeah. I love how you really broke down, like, a day at a time or an hour at a time.

Yeah.

Right.

Because there are versions of me, and I'm sure of your journey where it was like, okay, I just need to get to the next hour.

Yeah.

Like, and I'm not going to make any decisions right now. I'm going to clear everything off my plate that I need to.

Right.

And through there, you get to stronger versions of you. And honestly. And you said that, you know, you're. Your daughter, sparked your entrepreneurial journey. And I will tell you that the lessons I learned and grief really positioned me to be very successful in entrepreneurship.

Right.

And in my business. Because it's like knowing your capacity, controlling what you can control, how to manage your emotions and your mindset showing up each day.

Right.

Like, all of these things, like putting team in place and knowing that anyone can do everything. Like, not nobody could completely help me with my grief, but, like, everyone could kind of help in different ways. And what you've spoken to a little while ago was like, just the ownership. I've got to take ownership. Like, no one's going to do this for me, whether it's my grief or my business. Like, I. I get to be in ownership of how I move forward and how I find the opportunities. And so, you know, whatever stage the listener is at of your business or of grief, like, you know, really understanding that it's okay, like, don't compare to anyone else's journey. Just one day at a time, one hour at a time. But making that commitment to yourself to not miss the opportunities is so powerful. So powerful.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's. It's critical, you know, making sure that you. You take ownership and just realizing, like, you're. You're still in control, even though sometimes it may not seem like it, you know, and. And there's opportunity at everything that's happening, regardless if it's personal or if it's in the business world, you know, there's. There's opportunity there. You just need to first identify what's. What's happening, and then you've got to. To be in a place to where you can search and find where that opportunity is. There's a lot of different ways you can do that. And, yeah, everybody's journey's going to be a little different. That can be tough, tough pill to swallow whenever you're seeing others doing so well or, you know, especially with social media and you see, you know, these. These happy pictures and everybody's just living this great life. And I can tell you that it's. It's just not that way behind the surface and stop comparing yourself to that. Like, especially, you know, whenever I have a lot of peers that are where I want to get to with my business and all that, and they've done it in a shorter period of time and all this. And, you know, I just kind of go back to the. The thought process. And I think this is true with anything that you're trying to do, especially if you're going out and starting to try to create something new. Like, my. One of my biggest goals is just to. I want to change the course of our family tree by doing and. And taking the. The steps that I'm taking with building the business and building a brand and like, doing all this for, you know, a bigger purpose and a bigger goal at the end of it. But some people are just naturally. Just like you see with athletes, some people are just born with different gifts that allow them to make decisions a lot faster or that allows them to make different moves, that you are going to take a little more time to get to the comfort level to make that move. That's really. Whenever you're looking and people are in certain areas and you look at that and you go, why can't I be there? Something's wrong with me. Which then starts a downfall of, you know, mindset and thought process. Instead of looking at and just realizing, first of all, you know, I could line up right next to Usain Bolt and we could run a hundred meters, right? Well, he's going to get there a lot faster than I'm going to get there, but I'm still going to fucking get there. You know, it's just going to take a little bit longer. And as long as you understand that, you're okay with that. And then also understanding and the way that I view things and I tell my wife all the time, I'm like, you know, I. For some odd reason I cannot make certain decisions that are very big in the growth of my business or personal. And it gets easier the more that you do it. Right. So you're able to make decisions because you're based off of data. And it has been that way for me. But it took me a long time to be able to make a lot of decisions because I have to go through the experience and the storm of it in order for me to tell myself first, okay, I've been through that. I tried. It didn't work. Now I'm stronger because of it. And I'm going to help others at the end of the day because that's another big piece. I'm going to help others avoid that in their life. But I went through it, you know. Yeah. Did it suck? Yeah, it sucked. Sucked really bad. But now I'm through it and I'm up here and guess what? I'm, you know, I'm still alive, I'm still kicking, I'm still moving forward. And you know, it just kind of got me through a bit of a storm that made me stronger coming out on the other side that I can help others avoid or get through whatever they go through that and for whatever reason, I just, I dive head first into going through these, the tougher path, so to speak. And I just learned that about myself and I'm okay with that because, you know, whenever I finally do get there, I am first. I'm not saying this is right for everybody or how you should do it. I am going to feel more fulfilled and I'm going to feel more confident in my ability to make a bigger impact. That's kind of the way that I have continued to grow whatever comes through this journey, you know.

Oh, so good. And like, just thank you for sharing. You know, we got so much into the mindset, which is like, I nerd out on that because the business, like that stuff really just follows. But for, you know, those, for people listening who want to know more about what you do and how they can work with you or learn more about it, can you just give them like a little overview of, you know, what you do and how you support people and in their work and in their journey?

Yeah. So, you know, like I said, at the end of the day, we're E commerce marketers. So we've got a full team that specializes really from everything A to Z whenever it comes to growing, either selling your products or selling your services online. And we come in and we work with people that are just starting out so they don't even have A website built, they don't have a product page built and they're going, hey, either one. They've been in business for decades and they've been doing the traditional and they know that there's this whole other opportunity and E commerce is growing and they've got to get into this world and they don't know really how to do that and do it profitably and do it in a way where you're able to build that part of your business or that may be your sole business, all E commerce, to do it. Building a rock solid foundation and not building it, you know, on a sand, so to speak, which is where a lot of people make that mistake whenever it comes to the digital space. And so where you just come in and we're able to focus on all levels because everything got to be working together. Everything from running paid campaigns or social media management, leveraging these platforms in the right way to make people aware that you even exist, to building that trust and that relationship through good content, good value, content that really shows your brand, your product or service in the right way and getting them to a place, whether that's a website or a funnel, so to speak, that is actually designed to help you continue to build that relationship with your consumer and work them through that buyer's journey all the way to getting them into your database and nurturing and making sure you're continuously following up and then getting them to refer and come back and buy more or help tell your story for you, to help build that credibility. And you know, and that way you're starting to build a long successful brand each and every month. And so that's really what we, what we focused on is the whole A to Z, from set up to strategy to execution.

So beautiful. So it's so important. Right. And it's like it's amplifying people's confidence, abilities, tools, resources to be able to get their work out there or to grow their vision and grow their dream. And you know, to your point, like it's a, it's a vehicle. Everything we're doing and creating like this podcast is a vehicle for me, it's a vehicle to my vision. And my vision is to show everybody what's possible in their life no matter what happened.

Right.

You, you spoke into like your vision of changing like the lineage and like the legacy of your family. And so you're used different vehicles for that.

Right.

And what you provide through your business is a vehicle for many other people to bring their vision to light. Yeah, I just want everyone listening to like tease out the difference between vision and vehicle.

Right.

You need both. And the vehicles are going to change and they're going to shift, you know, and your vision might even too. But, like, typically, once you get really clear, right, you're just going to be switching vehicles to get to it. You're going to have a few that are going to get you there. So I just want to honor and acknowledge how not only are you living your vision and like, doing the work and living the work, you are creating vehicles for other people to live there.

Yeah, and that's ultimately, I mean, you said it better than I. You know, I talked to our team a lot just about how we, you know, a lot of times, even if they, they've done something to a certain extent and they, they've dabbled in it, they tried different things. And we have so many stories where, you know, people came to us and they tried and they were literally like, I'm giving up on all this. Like, it doesn't work. And in a matter of weeks or months, we had been able to flip that around because we've, we've been in it and just given our experience and going through and working with so many different brands over the years of all sizes and industries and markets, like, we've, we've seen it and we've seen what, what really works and what, what doesn't, both, you know, from our own experience to others. And we really help people's dream come to life because they come to us and they, they, they have these visions and they don't know where to start. They don't even know who to, to talk to. There's so much noise whenever it comes to this whole digital thing and so many things that you're hearing and lots, so many shoddy objects which I've been victim to. But at the end of the day, the business practices that have worked for decades or centuries to build businesses and big brands that we know so much of today, it's the same principle, the means of how we go about doing it, where people spend their time and their attention is just what's changed. But there is a lot of moving parts in there and unfortunately, a lot of people will get burnt in this space. And my biggest mission, if you go to my website, the very first thing that you see is the team that actually cares about your success, because we do, almost to a fault. And that's literally what we put forth. And it, and everybody I bring on my team has the exact same vision and mission. And it's bigger than just Doing some marketing or running some ads on social media or posting content. It's bigger, it's, it's. How can we help you accomplish ultimately what you set up to accomplish and you're currently not there right now. And if you allow us to do what we do and you do what you do, we're going to get there, you know, and I want you to know that you can trust us to do that. And sometimes we may not be the right answer and that has happened and we get in and we do the right thing by, you know, hey, ask. Actually, here's the investments that maybe you made in us. Here's this back. You need to go do X, Y and Z first. And no, I've done that so many times and a lot of people in business, you know, they're not going to admit to all that. But I think that's the strong point.

I mean, I think it's an abundant way of being and it's an integrous, it's an integrity driven, abundant way of being. Whereas it's like, I'm going to be an integrity and if I can't serve and deliver for you in the way in which we thought or expected.

Right.

You know, not because like, know we can't do the work for other people.

Right.

So there is that level of it too. Whereas like, they've got to do their work but at the same time, if it's like, hey, this, we're not going to be able to bring to life what we thought we would. Here's your money back. I'm living in integrity and abundance. Go put that somewhere else. And like they're going to be so quick to not only refer to you or to come back to you, but you're also opening up energetically. And this is where I get like a little woo. But you're opening up energetically to the universe, saying like, I'm not attached to, to like an outcome or a person. I'm attached to the process, to integrity, to abundance. And like, that's where you create the environment where you receive even more. And the thing is, if you don't do that to receive more because your energy doesn't lie. So if we're doing it to receive more, you're not going to receive more. But if we're really doing it from purity of like, no, this is my value, this is like my integrity. This is my, my word on the line. Then like it just comes back to.

You tenfold, 100% and you know, and a lot of it too. I mean I just. I like to sleep at night, right? Like, I. I like to sleep at night. And I. And I. A lot of people over the years have not necessarily agreed with some of the. The approaches I take or maybe how I deem to. To do business or, you know, why. Why aren't you, you know, you did all this work. Why aren't you holding them responsible? Why aren't you? And it's like, because it's. It's bigger than that for me. It's bigger. And at the end of the day, I know that if I have to give up money or give up an opportunity or whatnot in order for someone else to go out and continue fulfilling or looking or searching, even though. And obviously we're not going to be the best option for that because we. We may have tried it, and that's okay. We recognize that it's not a lot, but sometimes that does happen. I know for me, I've been through a lot of tough times, and I know where my mentality is or what I look at. I'm okay to take that, you know, take that old. Because I know I'm going to be able to get past it and work through it, and I'm going to be okay because I, you know, I've been through it. And so, you know, others may not. And I want them to have that opportunity, and that helps me feel better because I don't want to be sitting there laying my head down on a pillow wondering, man, you know, are they. Are they okay? Or, you know, should you know, it. Was it because we couldn't fulfill what we thought we could? Is that really going to hurt? Like, I don't want that resting on me. And sometimes that's probably an overreaction, 100%, but it's just the way that I've always wanted and what I've. The way I've always envisioned doing business, what I refer to as the right way, at least in my mind.

It's so beautiful. Thank you for your. Your vulnerability, your integrity, your, you know, commitment to doing the work and to bringing your vision to life.

It's.

There's so many juicy nuggets in this episode. I'm like, I don't even know which ones are going to go in, like the highlights right in the show notes. Because it's just so much here, and when it flows like that with such ease, you know, it's pure and, you know, it's from the heart.

Look, everything. I think I. It was your last episode. I forgot who you were interviewing, but Y' all were talking about something along these lines of the confidence of going. And y' all used a lot better terminology that I'm about to use because it was a lot more sophisticated than. Than what I'm going to probably refer to it as. But just going through the experience and the way that you can go and either one, talk with others based off of your own experience is a whole different level than just being able to talk about or to go out and try to talk about something that you haven't gone through and gotten on the other side of. And it's your own experience that you're talking about was really what you were focusing on. And you're just delivering that of how I dealt with it. I'm not saying you need to do it this way. That's not what I'm telling you. I'm not telling you this is the right way. I'm just telling you what helped me. And there's a lot of people that I've talked to that I've told them the same stuff and it helped them, but that doesn't mean it's right for you. I'm just telling you whatever comes from my experience, I'm able to. To pull from this. And trust me, whenever somebody tells me this is what I'm going through, I can immediately put myself back in that spot and have a whole different level of empathy and just a whole different level of appreciation for where they're at at that moment and be able to deliver what worked for me in that time. And that's really what all this kind of flows and stems from. And I love the fact that you dive into all of this, because this is the type stuff that people don't talk about, especially whenever it comes to entrepreneurship and building a business, is they don't talk about the shit underneath that got you to that point and continues to still get you to that point, because the shit is going to suck at very, very certain times. And there's no. I don't think there's any getting around that. And I don't care who you go to or who you look up to, if you go and you hear their story, it will make a big impact. And I think people need to realize that these shitty times, these dark times, these rough times, that is the norm. And that is what you have to understand is that this is the normal process. Everybody wants to think that it's not and that. That they're fucked up or that they did something wrong or they can't. They're not going to Be able to take that next step because they're dealing with this when nobody else has ever. Bullshit. Everybody's fucking gone through this and I promise you, everybody's gone through it. And if you go and you start researching the most successful people out there and you go back and you listen to stories they've told, trust me, this is normal. This is the norm and this is what people should be talking about more and not just the millions of dollars they've made at the end. And we need to, we need to start normalizing that. My opinion, so that people realize, wait a minute. Me feeling that I may be a little anxious or depressed isn't a doubt. No, no, no. First of all, you becoming aware that that's what you're dealing with is a great step. You going and getting a coach or a mentor or a therapist or whatever the hell you want to call it or whatever you're going to go do, that is strength. Like, that is you getting better. Like go like be better, feel better. There's. You can do that. I wasn't a big believer in that and so it kind of forced me to. And now I just, I, you know, obviously I talk about a lot.

Yeah. Oh, I could just feel your fire there is so good. Like it was just like all fired up. But that is my mission is to talk about the things people are talking about. You know, my highlights story could be great. Like, oh, you know, six figure business and this seven figure business and that. Like great. And what you don't know is that most people don't know is I had five, six years of being on the ground, doing the work, understanding the things that actually matter more than business strategy.

Right.

Of how to fucking show up no matter what and having to do all of this. And even through my journey, there have been more ups and downs than I could ever explain and fear and all of that. And when we get so attached to the highlight reels or the smoke and mirrors out there, we're doing such a disservice because that's not the reality. And in fact, if we allow it, the painful parts can be just as beautiful.

For sure. Yeah. And I think you have to, you have to get to a certain point before you can fully appreciate that. But that is part of the process, you know, is, you know, once you get. At least for me, like I said, at least for me, it's taken going through and working and really putting a focus on that and really working on me and understanding that. Look, if I've gotten to a point and I'M not satisfied and I want to take that next step instead of looking at all of this other stuff, I look internally now and that's a big step. Whether it may be okay. I've been getting this work with the mindset coach, but you know what? I haven't been focusing on my physical health. So what do I need to do? Well, I need to go back and get in the gym. Well, I know I don't stick to my gym if I don't have somebody there helping me go through it. I know that about myself and so hire a personal trainer. But that's going to help me get there and hold me accountable. And that's been one of the best decisions as well. And that's helped me start to progress and get at higher levels. And you know, as you go through that. Yeah. Looking back on it now and now as times come, you know, whenever you hit these rough patches, you look at them differently because you're able to one be more aware, but you're also able to know what has come out of it every single time in the past. And that's whenever you start really like, that's whatever shit's cool in my opinion, like, you know, you start really having and you start just naturally and subconsciously having a whole different outlook whenever you go through these tough times. That's whenever you really start making leaps and bounds big time.

So good. It's so true. And we can't always see it when we're in it. So moral of the story, shit's gonna hit the fan. Focusing on mindset is everything. Emotional intelligence, everything. Get coaches, coaches, coaches, mentors, mentors, mentors. And like, know that in every challenge there is massive opportunity.

Coach couldn't have said it better myself.

Oh, thank you. Where can people find you?

Well, you can go to Lichpinsales.com you can go to Lichtenpin sales, Instagram page, Facebook page, YouTube, check start connect with me on LinkedIn. I would love to connect or have you engaging with our community. And if we can ever do anything, always feel free to DM me or go to the website and fill out the form and I'll be. I'd be nothing more than happy to help out, even if it's just talk and answer questions about all this digital stuff.

Thank you so much. Those of you listening, check out Brandon. Check out his work. Whether or not it resonates with you or it's work that you need. Just get in his energy, get in his orbit because you know, he stores the types of environment of integrity and abundance, and everyone can benefit from that in their life. So, Brandon, thank you for coming on the show.

Yeah, thank you for having me. It's been an honor.

Thank you all so much for being here at Grief and Guts as Layden's mom. Being able to spread the stories, the strategies, the lessons I have learned through Layden and from Layden is the thing that means the most to me in this world and allowing my daughter's short life to have long and lasting impact by shining her light. Truly, nothing means more if you align with and believe in the work that we're doing here and these messages. The best way to give back and to spread this out into the world is to rate and review on Spotify and on itunes. Thank you for taking just a moment to do that. Feel free to shoot me a message. Let me know what you want to hear more of, what you want to see more of. I am here to serve. I'm grateful to do so, and I'm cheering you on in your journeys.

Always.