57: 6 Lessons From Leyden - an episode with Leyden's Dad

Hello, friends, and welcome to Grief Guts and Green Smoothies. I am your host, Melissa Dugalecki, and I am so excited to be here with you all to chat about ways in which we can all get through different adversities, challenges, and loss, and how getting outside of our comfort zone and maybe having a green smoothie or two can help us do so. We will cover different topics, ranging from interviews to recipes, to sharing my own stories of my grief journey and the loss of my daughter, Layden. And I'm honored to be able to share her light in hopes of helping you spread yours. Now, let's dive in. All right, everybody, welcome back. I am excited and sad to share this week's podcast episode with you, but such is the path of grief, as so many of you know. I had planned, based on a lot of your responses and questions and Instagram to talk this week about relationships and growth. However, this is Layden's birthday week, and I felt like it was the most aligned and appropriate to celebrate her sixth birthday with all of you. Bring on a special guest to help me do so and to give the gifts that Layden brought us in terms of the things that we learned. And so I'm super excited to invite Laden's dad onto the podcast today. First time here. So if you are curious about some of the gifts that can actually come from grief or you're just curious about the ones that I feel and Layden's dad feel have come from grief, this episode is absolutely for you. So let's dive in. Okay, Special guest today. We've been on the POD for over a year, and this is a pod inspired by my daughter, Leighton. And this is the very first time I'm introducing you to her father. And he does exist.

I do.

And he has a name other than Layden's dad. So, Mike, welcome.

Thank you.

I'm really excited to have you here. You know, you've been a big part of the behind the scenes in bringing this podcast to life in this whole grief journey, so seeing all the different phases and chapters, so I'm super excited to be able to share your perspective with our audience.

Thank you. I know you want to dive in with your two questions that you ask every guest, but before that, I just want to start by thanking you for all the patience that you've had with me. Some people listening to this podcast might think Mike's a little late to the party, but I know you're never one of those people and allowing me to find my way to being able to share a little bit More and publicly is not something I take for granted. So thanks for that patience.

You're welcome. I think it's one of the. Maybe like a precursor to some of the gifts that we learned from Layden. Right. And honoring all of our own different journeys, and there's not one right or wrong way to grieve. And who's to say just because I find my way doing this, that this is the right way, you know?

Yeah.

Well, thanks for that.

Yeah.

You kind of hijacked my podcast, though.

You want to get the tacos?

Yes. So two questions I ask everybody. As you know, when you hear grief guts and green Smoothies, what comes to mind?

Well, we'll get to lots of the grief stuff in a minute. When I think guts, I think about how dedicated you are to helping other people heal, heal their guts and be as healthy as they can. And green smoothies, I just think, yuck. Unless you have lots of peanut butter.

Lots of peanut butter makes everything better, right? I love my green smoothies. I'll take them all. And tacos. This is like the people need to know, what is your favorite taco you've ever had?

I think mushroom and green pepper and onions. Yeah.

So those of you just tuning in for the first time or whether or not you've been along for this whole ride, this podcast, Grief Guts and Green Smoothies, is a way that I shine my daughter's light and Mike's daughter's light. And so that has felt really important for me to do it as her mom, because Layden taught so many lessons and she brought so many gifts. And I always say I would trade every single one of them to have her back, but I haven't been afforded that, you know, option, that opportunity to choose. So without that, for me, being able to share here and, you know, the notes and the messages I get from so many of you, how it's impacting your life journey. Like maybe not grief or maybe navigating a difficult relationship or longing or feeling the loss of a life you imagined, or for many of you, broken hearts in grief, Right. Whether a bereaved parent or whether some other loss. You know, it's not a hierarchy. And we're not here to compare or to point fingers to which is the most painful. We're here to make space for that pain and to see how we can grow through it. Because it is through my biggest pains that I personally have grown. And I've had the opportunity even more behind the scenes to witness Mike here do a lot of his growing and his grief journey as well. And we thought for our daughter Layden's sixth birthday, which is today, when you'll be tuning in, it is February 20th, with the podcast coming out on her birthday, because it drops every Thursday. Subscribe if you haven't. But it would be the most meaningful to talk about the gifts that she brought us, because unfortunately, we don't have the opportunity to give her the gifts that we want to. Is that fair, Mick?

Sounds good. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

All right. You go first.

All right. So the first one, actually, my first two are somewhat related. So the first gift that Layden brought to me is that in the years since we lost her, I have been able to, on many accounts, when I think things are at their worst, correct myself. And, you know, Laden's loss was, of course, the most poignant in our lives and always will be, but I've had some other losses. And in those moments of loss, being able to very thoughtfully sort of process that no matter what else happens, that that day that I'm experiencing, that time that I'm experiencing won't be the worst, that that day that we lost or that hospital room has been really twisted and warped gift that I'll be able to carry with me for the rest of my life.

So that's just, like, amazing perspective of, you know, when we think. And I'm sure anyone listening has had those moments of, like, how am I ever going to get through this? What? You know, how do I move forward? And just that feeling of, like, brokenness or confusion or overwhelm, being able to reel it back in and be able to say, like, oh, I've been to hell and back, if not worse, I got this.

And I like to think, well, it's funny that you said that. I like to think that it's Leighton's way of saying, dad, you got this.

Yeah, she definitely is. She definitely. So one of the greatest gifts that I believe Layden brought to me was understanding. And it's actually kind of similar to what you said, but really being able to face fear. And, you know, I feel like I experienced that. I made that decision when Leiden was really sick. And it would have been easier at times to create distance with her. Right. And I think you witnessed firsthand that was the last thing that I did. I went like a little mamaratzi. But I would, you know, take one of our pillowcases and put it by her head, and I would, you know, recorded our voices reading her books, and I would press my face into hers and, you know, use a Q tip to put her Breast milk across her lips so she could just feel and smell, like love in any sensory way possible. And it was like choosing to create a bond even deeper, knowing that things didn't look good. And so it was kind of shelving my own fear that we were going to lose Laden in order to show up for her. And I think when my worst fear came true, it subsequently, and similar to what you said with perspective, but it subsequently positioned me to not feel afraid anymore. I mean, I've taken some pretty big jumps and leaps, and I don't know that I would have necessarily had the courage to do it so openly and so, like, detached from outcome without Laden.

You're amazing in your ability to do that. It was another way. I think that we differed a little bit. And making space for one another to do it a little differently is, again, something that we were able to do pretty well.

Yeah. And I think it's, you know, I'm so glad and not like it's, you know, you said it's about time. I don't feel like it's about time, but I'm just so grateful that this aligned and you felt, you know, open and ready to come and speak on here, because there are so many people who I speak with and say, like, I don't. I could never do what you do, or I could never feel that way. And I'm thinking, you're surviving. You're getting up every single day. Like you're doing it. We just all do it a little differently and like you said, making space for that.

I appreciate that.

Yeah. All right, you're up.

All right. So my second one, again, is a little bit related. So the first one was that I sort of have the perspective of nothing will ever be as bad, and I survived that. The second one has to do with sort of when you encounter people who haven't been strengthened by any loss. Melissa, you know, I love this quote. I have it hanging in my home, and it's an Elizabeth Kubler Ross quote. The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity, and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, and a deep, loving concern. And many times when I run into people who are sort of the antithesis of that, I will think to myself that they really haven't had the gift of anything really important, any important loss. And I would never wish that on anybody. And my other thought sometimes is that I wonder if they've had a loss that they just haven't been able to work through, to get out to the other side, to be able to have that compassion and gentleness. And I'm certainly not a perfect person, but I think you and I have both talked, Melissa, about the fact that we definitely have more compassion and concern for other people. So that's kind of the other side of the coin. That's my side.

Yeah. I love that. And I think, you know, I often, when I see people struggling, I think either, yeah. Like they don't have that perspective or they haven't worked through it. Right. Like, what pain are they still carrying? Like, what anger or resentment or hurt or betrayal or what are they carrying? Right.

Yeah. Without the help of loving people in our lives, I'm sure it would have taken us longer to get there too. Right?

Yeah.

Yeah. One another, our families.

Yeah.

People close to us. So I guess maybe that's a lesson for people out there who are helping someone who's had loss. Don't give up on them. You know, they will probably come around to being probably a better person in the end for having had that loss if you can help them through it.

I love that. So my next one is, you know, layered in the sense of. I began to understand it in different ways, capacities, but it really came down to understanding what love was. And love wasn't necessarily about me. Right. Those moments I referenced with, you know, pushing through and pushing my face against Laden, like, it was more important to me that she felt my love than anything else. And I started to really kind of shift my understanding of love. Right. For a time in my life, I thought that love and worthiness was something that, you know, other people affirmed or validated in me. Like I needed their stamp of approval or their reassurance to feel loved and worthy, or it had to be shown through, you know, sacrifice or struggle or different ways that weren't necessarily like, this healthy understanding of love. And in order to give love, like, we have to really love ourselves. And Layden taught me how to do that at a level that I hadn't done before. And on the other side allowed me to really, really, truly understand what it means to love others. Right. Not conditional love. Right. Not if you do this for me, I'll do this for you. Love, just really honoring. And you referenced this, Mike, like, honoring different people's journeys, different people's rights to choose what works for them, being clear in what I want and need for me, and letting really, the rest of it go. It's a work in Progress, I think, no matter where we are in our journeys. But just loving somebody so much that you want them to choose what makes them happy more than you want them to choose what makes you happy. Right. And I think that was something I practiced with Layden. Like, I wanted to, you know, I loved her so much, I wanted to choose what was going to make her feel good rather than what was going to make me feel good. Understanding that love, but understanding in a way, and I just want to draw this distinction is not at the point of completely depleting and putting ourselves on the back burner, because that was a way that I had come to understand. Like, showing how much I love somebody previously was like, if I did extreme things or I bought extreme gifts, or if I said the right things or if I didn't mess up, that was love. Or that made me worthy of love. I was proving myself for that. This wasn't coming from a place of proving myself. This love, this new understanding of love was like coming from a place of wanting to show up, to connect, to care, to honor, to support, to serve, without attachment to what I was getting back. And whether it's friendships or relationships or family, from then on, being able to really share and give that kind of selfless love and celebration of each person in my life that I love and then welcome back however they choose to share love with me. And the thing is, is if they share it with me in a way that, you know, fuels the relationship, the relationship is going to grow. And if they don't, I still feel good about sharing love because that makes me feel good. Right.

And it doesn't feel like a sacrifice.

It doesn't feel like a sacrifice. Right. It's like, I'm putting this out there. And if you choose to give back and meet, like, our relationship is going to grow, it's going to be beautiful. And this could be friendships, right? This could be dating, this could be family, like again. This could be a work relationship. Right. But being able to do that and really give love, and if you get it back, great, that's going to grow. And if you don't, then just kind of trusting that that's not the place of growth for love in your life right now, that was a lot.

Well said, a lot.

All right, passing the baton back to you.

So my last one is an easy one and was probably the first that came to mind. I wanted to start with ones that were centered on Laden, but the one that came most easily to mind for me is how losing Laden has made me a much Better dad for Laden's sibling. And I think many times, parents, you know, I heard this thing the other day about that we all played with our best friend outside for the last time, and we didn't know it when it happened. Like, we didn't know that it was the last time we'd play outside with our. With our friend, because you just kind of seamlessly move to a new phase and sort of that thought that as a parent, you sometimes think it's the last time my child will allow me to give them a big hug and kiss when I drop them off at school and not be embarrassed by that show of affection. And I think for me, that sense of not taking that for granted is on steroids. Right. It's that I very strongly and mindfully think about every experience I have with Leighton's sibling, and allowing myself to turn work off or to turn other concerns off and really embrace that time that I have is truly a gift that Leighton has left with me. And it's very strong.

Yeah, you can feel that strong energy from you, that paternal energy and protective energy for sure. All right, my last one. And we have so many, but Laden would be six today. So, again, thanks for being here and sharing in her story and her light. But my last one, I'm going to kind of cheat and throw two into one.

Overachiever.

Well, that kind of actually is ironic. It ties into it. We don't know what the other one's picking, by the way, when we created this idea, so is that we all have a capacity. And I think that was something I really fought before Layden, like, no, only people who aren't as high achieving have a capacity or only people who don't care as much have a capacity or who aren't trying hard enough have a capacity. Like, you really want something, you figure it out. You grind, grind, grind, grind, grind. And I think for me, honoring capacity has allowed for so much more flow. This is probably something you witness a lot, has allowed for so much more flow, and I've seen so much more growth and so much more happiness, so much more, actually achievement. Which is funny, because we think that it's the grind that leads to the achievement, but it's really flow. And that flow happens when we honor and understand our capacity, whether it's taking a day off, taking a week off, whether it's pushing yourself a little bit because you know you've got it in you. And, you know, I think one way of really growing your capacity, like, if anyone's like, how do I create more Capacity. This is what I learned with Layden. Like you, you eliminate the word should. Right. There was nothing about Layden that was like, the way it should be. Right. And, you know, she wasn't supposed to die. And you know, I say all the time, like, I shouldn't be doing this work necessarily, quote unquote. And at the same time, I know it's exactly the work I'm supposed to be doing. So just letting those things go, letting go, like, where are you spending time and energy doing things you feel like you should because other people are doing them or you feel guilty? And where can you begin to detach from that and expand your capacity and create so much more flow and get away from that grind?

Yeah. I'm reminded of sports psychologists, right. When they work with a really, really elite athlete.

Yeah.

One of the first things they do is have them take a day off. Yeah, right. And to start to realize how much they enjoy the game that they play.

Right.

Versus practicing more, you know, getting on the court more, getting on the practice range more. It's sometimes when you kind of hold back a little bit and you can relax a little bit that you've reached that flow.

Yes. I love that. I was talking with one of my one on one clients recently about how, you know, she was like, I think you need to specialize in helping type A's understand that if they chill out a little bit, like, they can actually do more. And I was like, well, that was me. I mean, you saw that.

Yes, yes, I did.

And so I just want to tell you all, it's not being, like, lackadaisical. It's not being inconsiderate. It's actually being super considerate, effective and productive versus, like, busy. Right, Right. And so that's my last one that I tied into too. Should incapacity.

We did it.

We did it, you guys. Thank you so much. You know, this is an emotional day. It's one that, you know, I also just want to remind you, whether it was Mike who shared so openly and vulnerably and beautifully about, you know, how it took him some time to get on here, or, you know, it's me who's telling you there were birthdays of Layden's where, like, I really couldn't get out of bed. And so now to be able to share messages, it doesn't mean it's over. It doesn't mean it hurts less. Like, it hurts like hell. But as you strengthen your capacity and you connect to love and you lean on your teammates and all of these things. It really is possible. Like if you're broken hearted right now and overwhelmed, please know it's so possible to grow and be in a place you never thought you would be without losing or forgetting your child and actually without being free of that pain. That pain will be there. You just learn how to manage it. Wouldn't you say, Mike?

Yeah. Be patient with yourself. Be kind with yourself. Yeah.

And thanks for being here because that shows that you know you're looking to support yourself and we're both really grateful to support you and to shine Layden's light out into this world because nothing means more today on her birthday in all day. So thank you all so much for being here. If you have any thoughts, find me Guts and grief on Instagram. Also you can rate review the podcast on Spotify or itunes. That's just going to help spread the work. So that would be a huge gift for us and for Laden's light. If you have a moment to do that today so we can spread her important teachings out in this world and we'll see you next time.