EP 011 Resetting Your Nervous System to Connect with Your Intuition - Melissa Dlugolecki

Welcome to the Selfish Griever podcast. Today's guest is a bereaved mom who's really done a lot of work around tapping into her body, her nervous system, and her overall energy. And if you're a right brain thinker like I am, that's something hard to understand and grasp. And she and I were supposed to have this interview a week ago, and then some things came up and we had to reschedule. And of course, that made for perfect timing according to the universe's divine plan, because just last weekend I went on a spiritual retreat and really became intimately aware with how disconnected I am from my body and my nervous system and my energy. And so I'm hoping that you'll enjoy today's conversation where I take the time to ask her some questions about some things I've been wondering about and experiencing, and maybe it'll help you on your journey, too. I'm also excited to share that she is starting a mini course that will be on March 7, and she graciously shared a discount code with the listeners. So listen to the end of the episode to get that information. If you're interested in learning more about what she talks about in the episode, then you can sign up too and get it at a great discount. I bought my course today, and I'm looking forward to learning more from her over the next four weeks. And without further ado, I'll let her introduce herself.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I am. Well, my name is Melissa, and you know, I am a bereaved mother. My daughter Laden lost her life in 2014 at the age of four months. And it just wildly shifted my world and my trajectory, as I'm sure many listeners can relate. Changed my purpose, my mission, my career path. And so now I do a lot of coaching and speaking and writing and a lot of work around grief.

Welcome to the Selfish Griever Podcast. I'm the host, Whitney Sammarano. This is a podcast for grieving parents looking for spiritual support on their grief journey as they find their purpose after loss. We're a community for grievers discussing all aspects of the grief journey, connecting with your deceased child, and spirituality. I've been a grieving mom since June 2020, when my firstborn twin son, Orion, died in an accident when he was two years old. Here on this podcast, you'll hear interviews with Grievers on similar paths and experts in spirituality. Welcome to the Selfish Griever community. Hi Melissa, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I guess I want to go Back and talk about the timeline for when you really started working in the grief space. How long after her death was that?

You know, I mean, in a way, it started without me realizing it, while I was still in the hospital. So we were in the hospital for. She was four months old, and we spent 99 nights in the hospital. Her case was termed a catastrophe. And it was just a roller coaster of, you're going home. Oh, wait, another complication. You're going home. Oh, wait, another complication. And my girlfriend came to visit one night, and we went to the restaurant right at the bottom of the hospital, and we're having some food and a glass of wine, and she said, you really got to start writing all the stories that you're telling me right now, all the lessons that you feel like you're learning from this, just start writing them. And I was like, why would I write these? Who wants to? This is pretty depressing. And, you know, but I felt really committed during our time there that I was learning a lot of lessons around what really mattered, around what you actually have time for, around what you could let wait, you know, and the busyness of life, being able to really pause so much of it to be present with Layden, my daughter. So I began writing, and after she passed, I wrote and read her memorial service kind of speech. The reverend was like, oh, so I'll. I'll do, like, the sermon. And I'm like, no, I got it. And I talked about Laden in her life and the lessons that I've learned. And then shortly after, you know, a lot of people said it really resonated, and it was supportive feedback. Shortly after, I began training for a marathon to run in her honor when she was alive. We were in the hospital for marathon Monday, which is a huge thing in Boston, Massachusetts, where we were. And we were supposed to go home that Friday. And I said, layden, we're going to run the marathon next year for Children's Hospital, and we're going to cross that finish line together. And after she died, it was a few months, and I realized, well, I didn't make that promise conditionally. I didn't say, we're going to run this. If things go well, we're going to run this because we're going home. And I was like, I get to honor my promise. So I ran the marathon. I actually crossed the finish line with some of her ashes and my entire marathon training and campaign, which was. There was a lot of fundraising. Every week, I would send out an email that said, lessons from Layden. And So this all evolved very organically. People would write how it supported them in their grief journey. And a couple of years later, maybe three years later, I decided to launch a podcast because everyone had said you should launch a podcast, like your writing is really impactful. And about four or five years later, I began coaching. Now my background was in psychology, emotional intelligence, emotional learning. After she passed, I studied yoga, I studied Reiki, I studied holistic health, I studied neuro linguistic programming, I got certified as a life coach. And I just took all these tools and then began coaching and was asked to be a speaker at a lot of different events, particularly around grief. And it's just really evolved ever since then, Whitney. Like it's, it's just continually evolved. I started putting my writing together to write a book and that just got signed a contract just got signed for that book on a few weeks ago. So it just continues to unfold. And I think it's the allowance of being committed to the willingness to share and the vulnerability, being unattached to the outcome, but really focusing on service and allowing it to kind of guide me as to where the next place is for me to share or speak or serve.

That all makes sense. Congratulations on your book signing. I can't wait to get to read that. It's. It's interesting because I've been asked before, why do you think some people get stuck in their grief and others find a way to move forward? And I mean, I've trained for a half marathon and I would never agree to do a full. But I kind of have a little bit, I think, inkling of what that's like for training. And I mean to jump into that right away. And that's so beautiful that you did it honoring, you know, the promise that you made. But even to have that clarity of mindset so early on is, is really amazing to me.

Thank you. Yeah, I mean I, I really do think that Laden unlocked a lot of things inside of me that were being kind of blocked by my relationship with should or this is how it should be or how life is supposed to be and being so in the mind and in the control and wanting certain things to go a certain way. You know, I lived a life where I was checking the boxes. Right. I was four year class president of high school, like homecoming queen. I went to a really great college and played Division 1 athletics and then got, you know, the job that I wanted and then left it for one that felt a little bit more fulfilling but still was safe. And I always had this very old soul and inner Knowing, but I didn't trust it or listen to it because it didn't fit with what I felt like things were supposed to be. And after Layden passed away, it was like nothing made sense. She wasn't supposed to die. Her case was a catastrophe. This wasn't part of the plan. And it really. It really disconnected me from the word should in a way that allowed space for me to really think differently and get out of my mind and get more into, like, my soul and my body and my inner knowing and wisdom. With time and therapy and support, of course. You know, it wasn't this, like, fairy tale of, oh, wow, this is so beautiful. It was a lot of pain. A lot of pain, a lot of work, and still continues to be. But I think that we all have an inner knowing and wisdom that sometimes we can lose and get. Gets lost in the framework of life and how it's supposed to be lived. And when you can go through an event, that totally disrupts the idea of how things are supposed to be. One gift of it. And I always say, I don't want the gift. I want my daughter back, but I don't have her back. So without that, I might as well take the gift, too. And one of the gifts was really allowing myself to look at life differently and live differently and express differently.

Did you ever feel like on your journey that there were times that you felt yourself starting to maybe revert to old, like, patterns and habits of, I guess just like, going, going, going and not staying so tapped in?

Oh, 100%. It's. It's like a step forward, two steps back, two steps forward, three steps back. Right. Or whatever it may be, but it's not a linear path. There are a lot of detours. There are a lot of loops. I like to explain it like, you know, like the twirly straws, like the swirly straws. Whitney.

Yeah, yeah.

So if you think of it like that, it's like you go up and you reach a peak, and you're like, yes, but then the loop falls back down, right? The circle closes at the bottom and. But then you go back up, and then the next loop, the next circle will go up and it'll come back down again. But this time, the bottom of your second circle is the top of your first circle. And when you continue this, even when you are falling back down, the place where you fall to tends to be what was once a hype for you, a peak for you. And so when you're continually committed to the work, you're just evolving and when you allow, like, oh, I fell back into a lot of my old habits. I fell back into, I mean, I couldn't leave my house for a while. You know, I, I, I really struggled. And that pain was, that pain was awful. Right. I don't have another word for it. So this was not just, you know, you wake up and then keep moving in one direction. It was the daily choice to do the best that I could. And sometimes the best that I could wasn't so great, but it was literally the best that I could do.

Yeah, I just went on a spiritual retreat last weekend, and I was expecting growth. I mean, that was the purpose of going. Like, I felt like, okay, I'm ready to try and I guess level up, so to speak. But I was really surprised because what I learned was that I basically have really done a great job of mentally understanding and processing and meditating and all the things that, like, help my mind, but I, I have not done a great job with my body and, like, emotions. And I just realized, like, I've been compartmentalizing, basically, Orion. And even though I talk about him all the time and I see the signs, I, I've just been keeping myself somewhat closed off because it does hurt. And this mom posted a comment recently saying that she receives signs from her daughter, but she doesn't feel her. And of course, you know, that's Universe's timing for me to see that comment right after I have this kind of revelation. And I don't know what to tell her. Like, I don't, I don't know. I'm working on it myself, how to tap more into it. I'm, you know, trying to lean into breath work and walks and things that are more like connecting my body, because what somebody told me that I had never thought about before was that meditation is really for your mind, but, like, your body's not getting anything out of that. And yeah, it's just, it's incredibly hard because you feel like, or I felt like I'd made a lot of progress. And so many people, you know, are amazed that I can talk about Orion or that I'm trying to do this podcast or things like that. The perspective that I have about, you know, soul planning and, and that it was really meant to be this way. And yet at the same time, there's really this huge piece that I'm missing and, and constantly trying to figure out how to work on it.

Mm. Well, thank you for sharing. And first, I would say, like, there are different types of ways of being a leader or a Voice in this space. And one is to share and teach what you've mastered, and another is to share and be vulnerable in the journey. And both are important. I think it's really just important that we're honest about where we're at. I couldn't coach on grief at certain points because I was like, I had to give myself the space to be in my stuff and my shit. I do think it starts with the physical, and then it goes to the mind, like the physical body more from the sense of how we're nourishing ourselves, having the energy to move our body again and then the mind, and then we really get into more of our intuitive, our inner knowing, our wisdom, our body, like our soul. But for me, that was a new exploration in the sense of. I had always been somebody who thought connection to the body was like working out. And I think meditation quiets the mind so that we can actually allow for things to come through. And it's a hard practice. I have a hard time with breathwork still because I hear my daughter Laden's last breath. I'll never forget that moment. She was in my arms when she took it. So breath work is still something really hard for me. But what I've really worked on is releasing trauma from the body. A lot of hip openers, a lot of really gentle movements, intuitive movement, and then nervous system regulation. So a lot of nervous system regulation work because we don't realize when we are grieving. And for me, like, her entire life in the hospital, I was in a really intense state of fight or flight. And after she died, I was in fight or flight for a while. And I tried to fight. I tried to fight grief. I tried to beat it, learn from it, do all the things like, it wasn't going to take me down. And it wasn't until I really allowed it to take me down and surrendered that I was able to begin doing the work in my nervous system and in the nervous system regulation, which is something I'm now starting to coach and teach about, which is new for me. I was doing mindset work for years, all in the mind. And now that I'm getting more into the body, it feels really good to be able to share that and help us see how much of our subconscious and the trauma in our body and our responses are driven by energy that's become trapped in there and become stagnant. But much like anything in life, it's really different for everybody. There are different modalities you can use and try, but it's. I think it's a trial and error and I think it's, you know, being open to different modalities showing up if it doesn't work. The first couple of times that the first time I got in a cold plunge, I couldn't breathe and I could only go up to my knees before I just started hysterically crying. And I'm like, wow, I. I have a pretty strong sense of resiliency. Like I'm pretty resilient. For me to not be able to even go past my knees and have this intense automatic somatic reaction of like release showed me how much that was trapped in there. And so I was like, okay, this is an area where I really get to work. Stillness and quiet time has really helped me. Being alone and not speaking out loud for a different period. Like as long of a period of time as I can, Even if it's one Friday a month, where from Friday at 4pm or 5pm after work, I won't speak out loud. Maybe I'll read, maybe I'll write, maybe I'll watch a movie, but I don't speak out loud. And then until, you know, know, noon or 2pm on Saturday, I'll. I'll try and maintain that. That has allowed so much of creating safety in my body in stillness because I was so used to busy. Go, go, go. What's the next fire to put out? What's the next thing? What's the next thing I can create? And that actually just feeds the. The fight or flight in the nervous system. So for me it's been a lot of nervous system regulation because it's only through a regulated and calm nervous system that I can even connect with the inner wisdom of my body. Because without, when my fight or flight has gone off, I can't connect with it. It's not accessible, I can't reach it. So I don't know if that makes sense, but that's been my journey.

Yeah, I think that does make sense. And I think in a lot of ways, although a lot of these terms are new to me, the somatic and the nervous system and thinking about all those things in the fight and flight and how they apply to the grief space. I think intuitively, though at some, and even intuitively, I don't want to use that word and give the wrong, but I think give the wrong misrepresentation. But I think like my body knew it on some level because that was my automatic response after Orion died was just to like completely shut down in a sense, but in this, in a way that I segregated myself and like stopped all, all social interaction, all forcing of that. So often before in my life when I would feel like, oh, I need to, I need to go there, I need to participate, I need to, you know, be at the events or at the family get togethers. And I really gave myself a lot of permission to just stop if I didn't feel up to it and not forcing that and gave myself a lot of that quiet space. And not everybody understood. There were some people who told me that it wasn't healthy for me to spend so much time alone, but it was really just all I could manage and handle. And I think then when I started to be able to handle more and also was kind of obligated to handle more because life resumes and I couldn't just keep, you know, staying locked away is when I've now looking back, realize I've lost some of that quietness and stillness because it feels like I have to like do the next thing and keep, you know, keep all the balls juggling and everything moving and going and. And it's been to my detriment now that I realize. And that's part of the learning process, like you said, the ups and the downs. But what you're describing, I can, I can totally witness that I was doing that before unknowingly, and that it was helping me and without me realizing it quite to the extent that it was helping.

Yeah. I mean, subconsciously it's like, we know and gosh, one of the gifts for me and grief has been to let go of the people pleaser of me. Right. Who if somebody said, you shouldn't be spending alone time, I would want to people please them. Right. My grief journey really called me forward in giving myself radical permission to take care of what I needed. Right. And let go of other people's opinions. Because the truth is, is that person was probably just uncomfortable or feeling powerless with you being alone. Because they created a story that, you know, you're broken or you're struggling and they don't know how to fix that and they worry about that or that makes them sad and they don't want to feel that way. So then they put it on you to not be that way. So they don't feel that way. It's really common. You know, I'll never forget when somebody said to me, like, well, once you hit the year mark, the year finish, like the year mark, it was as if there was like a finish line. Like, then it gets better, right? And I was like, absolutely not. Like, what gets better? Like, just because it's day 366 doesn't mean Layden's any less gone. The only thing it means is that I've survived that day before. And so I think in brief, one of the, one of the gifts that I found is building a real deep inner trust, like trusting myself above all else. And that's taken time because in the beginning I lost all my self trust. How could I create a child that died? How could I let her die? It was my job to keep her safe. What is life? What am I even doing? So I went through a period of intense disconnection from trusting myself and with doing a lot of work and really understanding other people's reactions and listening to myself over them, was able to develop a huge sense of self trust. And it's confusing, you know, I, I think a lot of people confuse the, I don't know if you've heard like this term, but like the full body yes or the full body no. And we don't realize that a lot of that's actually guided by a trauma response when we haven't cleared or regulated our nervous system. And I can say that about myself. Like my full body fuck yes, for a long period of time was driving me to the same unhealthy connections or relationships with men because subconsciously I had developed a comfort or a knowing in this unhealthy dynamic. Because it was what I knew. And so what I knew felt safe. So when my body experienced a dynamic that felt safe, even if it wasn't serving me or good for me, I would be drawn to it like a magnet in a way that I would be like, oh, that was a full body fuck yes. How could that be anything but wrong? But right, right. But actually it was my trauma and my dysregulated nervous system driving me to an environment or a situation that wasn't serving me. I see this with people a lot around their relationship, with friendships or work or fitness. And so a lot of times we're like, oh, that feels really good in my body. Like it feels like my intuition. But we're confusing our intuition with our ego or our fight or flight or fear based response.

Yeah, that makes sense. I, it's funny, I think this maybe ties into what I was like what I'm experiencing currently. But I don't feel like I feel a lot of intuition in my body. Like when I feel intuition, I feel it like in my, in my head, in my brain, like oh that, that like logically recognizing, oh, this crossed my path right now, or this connection is happening. And. And that's like the universe guiding me. And my intuition says to, like, follow it, but I don't feel. I don't know. I don't feel intuition in my. In my body. Does that sound weird?

No. I think it's really common and everyone's different. What I always encourage people is to just when you have a thought or a response, if you can pause for a second and just, like, scan and be like, where do I feel this in my body? And do I feel this in my body? And over time, when you practice that, it might become more aware and you develop a stronger connection between the mind and the body. Because we think we're our minds. Because our mind's job is to make sense of the world and create stories and narratives and organize and categorize everything. It's just like the digestive system's job is to break down our food. The reproductive system's job is to create life. Like, the mind's job is to create sense. Right. To keep us safe. But we often think that we're our mind and we're really not. Our mind is just. And I know, I'm like, really going another tangent here. We can bring it back to more the grief journey. But the mind is. The mind is just doing a function. But because the function happens to be organization of thoughts and what's happening in our world, we often think that we are our mind.

Yeah. Yeah, that's. That's a life lesson I'm here to learn is to not overthink things.

Yeah. Aren't we all?

No, I think this conversation is really important because I don't hear a lot of people present grief processing this way, involving, you know, the nervous system. And. And I think it's important and also because I don't hear a lot of people talking about. Feels like it's hard to understand when you're trying to learn yourself what. What to do or what maybe your next step should be. It's hard to find people to talk to because grieving is already, you know, grieving, child loss or traumatic grief is already sets you apart. And then to feel like you're even part of a smaller segment within that segment of trying to navigate it spiritually and with a mind body connection. And not just, you know, on the. On the exterior and the ways that you present yourself on the outside, I guess, and the ways that you find a way to keep doing the life stuff, but, like, you know, how do you find a way to connect and heal on the inside?

I think it's Just. It's really just a process and trying different things. I remember in the beginning, I used to like scheduled date night with Layden, and on Friday nights, I would just allow that to be time with myself where I didn't actually make a plan, but I just set aside the time, and then I would do whatever allowed me to feel connected to her for a long period of time. It was honestly reading through her medical records, which I know sounds really sad, but it was the way I felt connected. So sometimes it was working on stuff for my fundraiser or going through her photos or making a scrapbook. And so in a way, just that practice of having the masculine structure of I'm setting aside this time for this, but then the feminine flow of I'm going to see what feels right for me in that moment and do that was a helpful start.

Yeah, that's a great idea. And when you talk about intuition, for you personally, when you're using it, like, do you, I don't know, set an intention of something that you, like, say you want to call in more people to build a community to, you know, be a part of? Do you, like, set an intention and then. And then I guess release it to the universe to get. Let those people be brought to you? Or. Or how do you. What's your process?

So I. So, I mean, my primary work is. Has become and evolved into. I went from, like, mindset and health coaching to coaching people to build their business online, like coaching entrepreneurs. Right. Coaches and consultants and service providers, because I did discover a framework that works really well and worked really well for me, and then client after client after client. And what I always teach is kind of what I was just speaking into, which is a balance of the masculine and feminine. So I work really hard to create a process and a strategy. And what's the goal? Okay, if we want to invite and support 20 people in this community, what is that going to take a require and work backwards on, whether it's connections or podcasts, or posting on social or email campaigns or collaborations, and really commit to the process, but then let go of the result. I don't go into force. And then you get into flow and you notice. Oh, okay, I'm witnessing that this part. This is working well. This is. This is providing, like, good feedback or this feels like it's flowing really well. So let's do more of that. Um, and I do that for myself on, like, a monthly basis, no matter what, even if I'm not launching anything or offering anything. It's just that, like, the monthly Review of building the roadmap. And then throughout the month, I get to be more in the observation, the witnessing, the unfolding. And, you know, that's something that I actually truly did kind of learn from my daughter, Layden, because if I measured success on the result, it wouldn't be a success. But her life can't be a failure to me. It just can't be. And her purpose and her legacy. And so when there was so much out of my control, when, if anyone on here is like working with clients or starting a business or running a business, there is so much out of your control. And so Layton's life really prepared me well for it because I could only control what I could control. And the truth is, we all think we can control a lot more than we can, but we can't control a whole lot. So I focused on putting all of my energy into what I can control and then letting the outcome be what it may. And if I can look back and feel like I controlled everything I could and I was committed to the process and I showed up every day the best that I could, well, then that can't be a failure. No matter what happens, it's all just learning. And in business, it's all just feedback for me on what worked and what didn't and what gets to shift and what doesn't. And for Layden, you know, it can't possibly be a failure. And now it's just a commitment to her legacy and the lessons that she taught.

And so do you apply that same process to, like, personal life or when you're, when maybe you decide you want to learn more about, you know, how to connect or to decide, like, what coaching program you wanted to take or things like that for, for your personal life.

Yeah, and that's probably where I let a little bit more of my intuition come in. Like, I would commit to I'm going to work with a coach or I'm going to join a community, or I'm going to do both. And then I would look into and, and, and connect with a few different options and then listen to what felt right for me. Right. And building that trust with that intuition and going from there.

Yeah, that makes sense. That's. That's where I struggle. I think business things seem in my mind are so actionable. It's like, okay, it's easy to, you know, figure out where you want to be and then work your way back. But when it's personal, just trying to, like, find a tribe you're a part of or build friendships and In a space that you, you know, connect to me, that seems a lot harder to contrive and that you have to, you know, that it just, like, organically happens. I don't know how I meet, you know, people, but then when I want to intentionally do that, I don't, you know, don't even know where to start.

Right. Yeah. And that's. And I think it's. That's the beauty of social media, too. I mean, in fact, one of the first groups I joined was from me hearing a podcast episode. Right. And that really changed my life. And the podcast actually had nothing to do with grief, but she was, you know, running a women's community, and it felt really empowering and kind of like a relief from getting out of my grief for a little bit into that community. And so I think it's just beginning to expand. And so I teach a concept in grief, and it's in my book called Building youg World. And when we first enter grief, like, our entire world is consumed by. By grief. Like, if we were to take a circle and color it in, and that circle represents our world, and we color the whole thing in, it's like grief takes up all of it. And what I do over time is like, I think it's a myth that grief gets smaller. It goes away. But what you begin doing is without that circle getting any small, like, the coloring of it getting any smaller, you begin to build layers of your circle and make it a little bit bigger and a little bit bigger and a little bigger. And so over time, instead of this entire circle being colored in, well, now it looks more like an eyeball. Right. It's like the pupil of your world. And so while the grief and the pain is the same size, the amount of space it takes up, the percentage of your life is less. And that's where I think getting into communities and taking on different things just a little bit at a time can really support you in navigating it.

Yeah, that's a great analogy. I. I think that sounds really accurate. And because the grief doesn't go away and doesn't, you know, disappear at any point, but it does start to feel different, right?

Yeah.

And when you. Sorry. To get back a little to, like, the spiritual side of things. Do you get signs from Layden?

They come in waves. I used to get a lot more in dreams. My belief is that, like, Layden was giving me the signs for a while. Like, I would see things. Like, a white butterfly was definitely her sign. Like, when I made the investment in and the decision to join that women's program. I was telling you at that mastermind, I was really in debt. And that program was $6,000 and I just put it on my credit card. But I just remember seeing a white butterfly that wouldn't leave my side during that. And when I moved to Mexico, where I live currently, I was just seeing white butterflies everywhere at first. And then last year when I made a decision to leave my business partnership, that wasn't broken, nothing was not working, but I just felt like there was something else meant for me. There was the white butterfly that came on my window and literally was on my window for about four hours. And so I, I get these signs. I get a lot of dreams. I'll have coincidences or run ins or I'll, I'll say that I want, or I'm looking for something and then all of a sudden, like, it appears. But I think the signs from her have become less and less as I've become more connected to my own inner wisdom and knowing and intuition. I like to think that she was leading and guiding me to begin to trust myself more. And as I trust myself more, she's kind of like, you got this, mom. Like, you got this.

Yeah, that's beautiful. And that's amazing that you, you see them and recognize them and Yeah, I think sometimes some parents, especially when they lose children so that are so young, I think they give less credit sometimes to the signs because our human, you know, mind and experience remembers them as being an infant. Or in my case, like my son was delayed speech. He, he was two and a half, but he didn't talk yet. And so I've noticed, even for myself, that I always attribute the signs to him. But I, I wasn't really expecting or being open to, like, messages from him. And that recently came through in a session with someone that they were like, he really wants to send you messages. He's been anxious and, you know, waiting if you're willing to receive them. And I thought in my head, like, oh, yeah, I'm totally, I'm ready to receive him. That sounds great. Like, what do I need to do again? The logical mind thinking. And in reality it's that, like, I need to work on opening my heart. But even I, you know, have been guilty of, even though I know he's a soul, but, you know, kind of relegating him to only being a two and a half year old, you know, consciousness. And that's not, that's not the case. So, yeah, that's beautiful that you see the signs from your Your daughter who was an infant, you know, showing you guidance on what are really like big adult life decisions that you're making.

Yeah, I envision her. I mean, she was an old, old soul. I envision her as in like her mid-20s or mid-30s. Like, I can just see her and she doesn't look anything like, you know, she blonde hair and blue eyes. But I envision her in her soul kind of spirit form with like long brown hair, actually, which is interesting, but. And I don't know why, but that's just what comes through. But I think that one of the things I really learned was it's less about the doing and more about the being. And we often want to. You know, I, I went through a training program where they taught this concept. And you know, it's, it's, it's spoken about in many, many places, but it's be, do have. And so often we want to do something to have something, do something to have something, do something, to have something. And when we have something, we're going to feel a certain way. So we think like, do have, be. But the truth is, is it's through the being and the, the how we're feeling and how we're showing up and the energy we're bringing in our presence and our allowance that the doing comes and then that we then have what we want. And so when you're looking at what do I need to do for my son? Which made me smile because that was me when, when I first started in my journey, I'm like, what do I have to do? Just tell me what to do. I'll do the checklist. How do I heal? What do I do? Just send me the list of things, somebody. And I was in more of my fight or flight. And now it's more about, okay, who do I get to be? Who do I get to be to receive the signs? Who do I get to be to receive the messages? And it's always when I'm in my most aligned, kind of calm, present, grateful, like, flow state that I get the signs, which takes a lot of work. Takes a lot of work. You know, it's funny, we think doing takes a lot of work, but being can take a lot of work and intention, especially in the beginning.

Yeah, absolutely. And I get asked, you know, why? Like, why don't I get the signs or how do I get more signs? I was just talking to a dad about this the other day, and I think because he gets incredible signs. And so I was asking him his perspective and he. And I Both kind of came to this conclusion that it takes being open to them. And. And that's exactly the being that you're talking about. Like, it's not about thinking about them all the time or wishing for more of them or all the mental, you know, gymnastics we put ourselves through. It's about just being in that open and receiving state and then. And then they will come.

Yeah, 100%. And you know what I would say with that is, Is that. Think of it like, energy. Energy is just energy, and it works the same way for anything. So think about if somebody's like, hey, like, I'm having a party this weekend or gathering this weekend, if you want to come over. And you're like, okay, cool, thanks. And then they're like, hey, you gonna come over? When are you gonna let me know if you're gonna come over? I really need to know if you're coming over. Why aren't you letting me know if you're coming over? And just. I can feel in my body right now, like a tightness. Like, I feel like a strangling around my neck. Like, I feel a. My shoulders. Right. And that, energetically, is gripping, gripping, gripping, gripping. And that is so often, I think, what we can do in life to block ourselves, right? Is it going to work? How's this going to go? Is this relationship going to work? Is this job going to work? How's this going to go? What's this going to be? And I was doing that a lot in the beginning with signs from Laden, like, well, what are my signs? What's the purpose? What am I supposed to be doing? Am I supposed to know? When are you going to tell me? When is it going to make sense? Whereas now it's more of an invitation. Like, you know, hey, like. Like just. Just want to let you know I'm open to any signs you want to send me. And then you just, like, let it go. Right?

Yeah.

Or like, you know, layton, is something really on my mind. I'm so open and grateful if you want to send any signs, right? And. And then you. But the hard part is you let it go. And maybe you don't get a sign in that moment. Maybe there isn't one that you need to even get. Maybe the sign is no sign to build self trust, but you're continually creating this environment of I'm open and I'm unattached. I'm open and I'm unattached. And when you can do that, more tends to come through.

Yeah. And that's definitely easier said than Done. Especially early on in your grief when, I mean, like you said, you didn't have any self trust. I felt that exact same way. And when you don't have any self trust, you know, it's like where you do all the work to plan the party and then you're. You're consumed by fear that no one's going to show up. And so that makes you more desperate. And I think it's the same thing with grief. Like, you're just so desperate to have the connection, you're terrified that you're going to lose it and that you don't know how to, you know, exist really in this new world without your child. And. And it just takes. Sometimes it just takes some time for that to loosen naturally. It's not something you can force away. And it's a totally normal reaction in the beginning. It's not. It's not you being, you know, too heavy in grief or wrong. And. But it's a hard place to be in. And sometimes the hardest answer is where you're at right now is where you're supposed to be. And, and you just have to keep working through it and trusting that you're going to get somewhere else, you know, get to another point. That's definitely where I feel I am right now with trying to trust that if I just keep setting the attention and, and making conscious, I guess, effort towards connecting with my body, that it's going to come. Even though I don't understand at all right now how that's going to come or what that feels like because it's so foreign to me. But. But I'm just going to keep working at it.

Yeah. Yeah. 100. I think that's the lesson right there. Can we just keep working at it and showing up a little bit at a time? Right?

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Well, thank you so much, Melissa. We're pretty much out of time and it went by so quickly, as they always do. But I really, I learned a lot from this conversation and I really appreciate you taking the time to come on here and talk and is there any, any parting words of wisdom that you want for. Want to leave for grieving parents?

Thank you so much for having me. I think just be gentle and compassionate with yourself and be gentle and compassionate with yourself and put supports in place that you can. That you can receive support and be held and not just by friends or family because they can only hold so much because they're, they're emotionally in it. Right. They might try and rush our healing or tell us to do things that their intent and their come from is so helpful, but we're not putting them in a position where they can really be that. So I would just say get support, be in support. Know that you're worth it and that it's a journey and being compassionate with whatever you're experiencing. Like allow the hard days, allow the anger, allow the sadness, like just allow it all and release it and have that support and know that I don't believe that it just gets better. And I think when we wait for things to just get better, we're, we're in a passive role of our lives but rather what's one step we can take each day to just feel a micro tiny hair, you know, better if anything, but knowing that we're worthy of feeling good and that we're worthy of feeling happy and that we're worthy of having the support and the tools in place to help us on the journey. Because it's a journey. There's no finish line.

Yeah. And I think you do a really good job of expressing that same message on your Instagram profile, which I, you know, take comfort from. It's not. I know that it's about, you know, business coaching, but your message really, I think, spans further than that. And so I will make sure and leave a link to your Instagram page for anyone who wants to check. Check it out because even if you're not trying to build a business, I think that you can find value in her posts and also her podcast, Grief and Guts. I enjoy listening to it, so I'll make sure and leave a link for that too. And I will be anxiously awaiting details of when your book is going to be released because I bet that's going to be amazing.

It's going to be about a year, but I'll be doing a lot of stuff around it before then. So thank you. Thank you for the work that you're doing. Feel for anyone listening to just connect. I really believe in the power of connecting on this journey and knowing we're not alone and knowing that we get to all learn and co create together. So Whitney, thank you so much. I'm so deeply sorry. I'm getting emotional that we are connected for the reason that we are and I'm really grateful that we were able to show this time.

Yeah, thank you. I think Orion and Layden brought us together.

Yeah, me too.

Thank you for listening to the Selfish Griever podcast. I hope you really enjoyed today's conversation with Melissa. And like I mentioned at the beginning of the episode, if you're interested. She does have a four week mini course that is starting on March 7th. The discount code for that is Selfish Griever and it drops the price down to 111 for the four week course. I will put a link below in the show notes and you can find out more if you're interested. If you enjoyed today's episode, please take time to rate and review the show. It's really easy to do. You just scroll to the bottom of the show page and check the stars and type out a little review and hit submit. It seems like such a tiny thing, but it really helps the show grow. Thank you so much and we'll see you next week.