From Possibility to Profit: Chris Harder on Building Wealth with Purpose
19 Aug 2025 · 73 min
Melissa Dlugolecki talks with Chris Harrier about building wealth while staying true to your purpose. They share stories from their mastermind groups and discuss how possibility thinking and accountability shape entrepreneurial success.
Okay. Thank you so much. I am beyond excited to have you on the show Scar Tissue, which is relaunching now as we're preparing for the book publishing. And it feels so full circle, Chris, to be here in your home. Thank you for having me.
My pleasure.
I actually joke that it's kind of on brand that my podcast is nomadic.
Yeah.
I like every listen, I was in a different studio and I was like. At first I thought maybe I should go to the studio and I thought, oh, that's more on brand for me. So I'm not a bueno. Anyways, it's just so full circle in terms of when you first crossed my path. And you have, hands down, been one of the most influential and impactful people in my life.
Thank you.
Yeah. And I can't wait to introduce you to the community. So welcome.
Well, that means the world. I mean, that is one of the kindest things that somebody can say. And I'm grateful to have you here and I'm grateful to be on the show and let's just add some value and make some magic.
Yeah. I always like to ask two questions in the beginning. Favorite taco?
Favorite taco. Baja fish taco down at. I'm gonna give a shout out to Bear flag tacos. But you gotta do that orange sauce on there. It's so good.
So that's where we went when we had the. In person.
Yeah. Yep.
I'll see. I went back there yesterday.
See, it's addict.
It's fantastic.
Best squish taco song. Fun.
Yeah. Great merch too.
Oh, yeah.
And then secondly, Batter's box song. Currently, like, if you had to pick a batter's box song, what would that be right now?
Man, I know, that's tough. Tough. Here's why I know songs when I get them, like, oh, I love that song. But then I can never name any songs at all. Here, you. What do you think mine would be?
Oh, I honestly. Something old school, like. Yeah, definitely something old school. That's just like, let's go. You know how.
How about some big pimping? Just cuz I put it on my stories the other day.
Okay. Perfect.
Yeah. Although that era of music is the best, it's the honest side. So good that in 70s and this is not batter's box music, but 70s barely into early 80s soft rock, like yap rock. That's my J.
100%. All right, well, I guess we can talk about things that might bring a little more value. But hey, entertainment's always fun. So I wanted to just Open up for the audience by really diving into the idea of possibility.
Yeah.
And I'm gonna get emotional, my nimbus. I didn't even cry yesterday when I did, like, a whole interview about my grief journey. This is like, how wild this is. But how I never would have imagined in a million years that I would be here on Saturday in your home recording a podcast with you, that not only would I be in your mastermind, I'd have you as a businessman client, too. Your client. Yes, yes, your client.
Like, clients both ways.
I know we're clients both ways. I'm a client of yours, you're a client of mine, and it's just unbelievable. And one of the things that I've always stood for is possibility, and I just think this is an embodiment of it.
Yeah.
Right. And so for anyone listening, I'm gonna give a minute backstory, if you don't mind, please. So the first time that I came across your work was your podcast. Now, I actually did hear you speak. You gave a speech at Angie Lee's.
Ah, yeah. Hey, those were good events before you did.
Yeah. And you spoke on the rocket ship. Yeah, let's talk about the rocket ship a little bit, because that really resonated with me so deeply in the way you delivered it. And I think a lot of listeners could resonate with that in their journey.
So it's funny, because you started with possibility, Right. And the story of getting on the rocket ship kind of is in tangent with possibility. And I love that you brought it up as possibly. I guess, if not for possibility, then what is there, Right? Like, if not for dreaming big, if not for thinking, hey, I can do this if not for thinking, I could meet anyone or I could do anything, or I can make anything happen if I actually put my mind to it. And the work to back it up, that's possibility. And literally, I've. I've been around for 47 years. It's just long enough to realize that anything is absolutely and utterly possible, no matter what background you come from. And so I love that that's kind of your ethos. Now, the rocket ship story that you're talking about from years ago was when my wife Lori was absolutely on a rocket ship. I mean, her career was just popping off. She was everywhere. She had so much momentum. We could go to grocery stores without people recognizing her because all of her magazine covers were there at the checkout at the same time. She was on every stage at the same time. Her show was blown up at the same time, her book had just coming out, right? Like omnipresent. And I was just kind of like, hey, things are good. You know, supporting her and working on her brand in the background and. Which, you know, was enough to keep me busy. And our marriage was good and life was good and money was good. But the problem with good when you're meant for all out great, is that there's a gap there. And the pain comes from the gap. This is what people understand. Whether you're in, like, a bad situation right now and you just wish it was good, that's a gap. Or if you're in a good situation right now, but you know that you're meant for great, that is the same gap, believe it or not. And it feels just as painful as the one from not so good to good, right? A gap is a gap is a gap, and gap creates pain. So I was on date date night with Lori, and we're in Santa Monica at one of our favorite restaurants, sitting across from her in this little booth. And, you know, date night's supposed to be awesome. And we had done separate things that day. And so she's telling me, it's like, okay, I met these women and they're super awesome. And we're going to do this collaboration, and we're doing this together, we're doing that together. This is to change. And I'm so excited. And I was sitting across from her thinking silently. Of course, I didn't say this. Why does everything always have to be so big and new and exciting all the time? Why can't it just be, like, good enough the way it is? And I realized right after I had that thought, I'm like, bro, what's your problem? What's. Your wife is super excited about taking yet another big step in a extraordinary lifestyle. And you're sitting here saying, why? Why does it have to be that way? Why is she excited? Why can't we just stay where we're at? And it's not staying where you're at that's the problem. It's being with somebody else that doesn't want to stay where you're at if you want to stay where you're at. And that creates a gap. And in that moment, I realized, wait, we have a problem here. And the problem isn't her being ambitious. The problem isn't her being excited. The problem is me just sitting here making the excuse that everything is good enough when I know that it could be extraordinary. And so I realized in that moment that she was on this rocket ship and she was going to end up in the stars. And I was still going to be down here on Earth in the land of good enough. And that gap between Earth and SARS would be far too wide to span and think that we're going to be able to maintain a marriage or a relationship. And that was my wake up call. That was the moment that I knew that she wasn't getting off the rocket ship. I mean, not chance in hell. And so either I had to go get a rocket ship of my own in order to also meet her up in the stars, or I was going to be left behind down here on Earth. And again, I just want to like, it's about being matched up with the right person. So let's say the two of you want to be down here on Earth and good enough, great, you're matched up. But if one of you wants to be on the moon or in the stars, or one of you wants to be down here on Earth, you're going to experience pain and it's not going to work out long term. And at risk of extending the story, this is actually when I went and started reading 30 books in 30 days.
Stop it.
Dead serious. I bet you don't even know this about.
I did not know this about you.
Yeah, so I believe this was 2017. I could be wrong on a year. So, you know, fact check me. But on the dates I come home from this date night and I didn't say anything to her, but I started looking like, okay, what's my rocket ship? How am I going to up level? How am I going to catch up? And so when you're looking for something, when you're aware that you want something, it tends to find you. And I'm scrolling on Instagram because that's what you do when things are just good.
Yeah.
And I come across this guy who I know now but I didn't know back then. His name is Tai Lopez and he used to have a famous Clairol ad where he's at his garage and he's doing selfie video and he says, hey guys, here's my Lamborghini, here's my Ferrari. And I'm a car lover, by the way. There's a Ferrari in the garage, you probably noticed as you came in. And he says, here's my Ferrari, here's my Lamborghini. But my favorite thing in this garage are not the cars. And he pans this way, he goes, it's the books. He have walls and walls and walls, like shelves and shelves in his garage full of books. And he went on to say, I read a book a day every single day of my life, and that's why I am where I am. And it hit me, I was like, wait, if this dude can be this successful and still find time to read a book a day, obviously those two things correlate. Maybe I could read a book a day. Now, I wasn't ready to commit to the rest of my life, but I did commit to 30 books in 30 days.
Wow.
Now, I knew two things about myself. Uh, number one, I knew I would get a fast start, because I'm kind of a fast start type of person.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I knew, number two, I would probably get around seven or eight days in a row. Ten days in a row. Like, all right, that's good enough. Like, I read 10 books.
Yeah.
In my. You know, in a row, in 10 days. That's pretty cool. I'm good to go. I knew I'd let myself off the hook, and so I needed accountability. First person I can tell, obviously, Lori, I remember this, I thought she'd take up crazy, and instead of thinking of crazy, she had, like, a look of relief over her face, like, oh, good, he's finally going to do something. And then I went and I told at the time, Facebook, a little bit is correct, too, but Facebook was a little bit bigger following at the time. And I said, hey, Facebook, I need your help. I need you to hold me accountable. I'm going to read 30 books in 30 days. So not only am I putting it out there so that you hold me accountable to this, and I'll list every book every day, but on top of that, I'm going to do a fundraise. And I did it for Pencils of Promise. And I said, whatever amount of money that you guys donate in this 30 days of me reading books, Lori and I will match. And I got that idea from, you know, when people run a marathon, hand this cause, raise money kind of a thing, or do an ironman. Right. Raise money. That's where I kind of got the idea. But it was. I knew that if people were giving Money on day 8, 9, 10, 11, or 12, as I'm posting which book I'm reading, if you're giving money to this charity and I'm supposed to match it, then I knew for a fact I could have quit on day 10, 11, 12, or I wait, I'd feel scammy. And so, sure enough, 30 books, 30 days, it happened. It changed my life. It got me on the rocket ship, Pencils of Proms, got a nice big Donation. Everybody won.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
And I think there's something really powerful about. Because when I first started doing this, I wanted to hide, and then suddenly I'd come out in the open with it, like, once I had the finished product, which I guess a lot of people can relate to, but that takes a lot of courage to put it out there. And it takes a lot of courage to just internally reflect and say, no, I'm. I'm going. You know, we're gonna get into relationships. Like, I got. I wanna stay in our story. We're gonna talk about that. Because I honestly, I had told many people you and Lori are bolts. Because I think to your point, there's not one way. Right. You might be in a marriage where one, like, one person wants to stay back, one person wants to go. And that actually works for their marriage.
Yes. I. We have good friends who. That does work for their marriage very well.
Yeah. And you might have ones where, like, now everyone's meant to do all the same things. Right. Where you'd want to stay on Earth. And then I want a rocket ship. And I always say, I want, like, the rocket ship partner. Right. And I. I see it like, tag.
Yeah.
Right. So it's like, Gloria's here. And now you go. You, like. You go ahead of her. And I'm like, yes. Yeah, sorry, visual. And then she goes. And, like, that's. That's what I desire.
And believe it or not, that is how it unfolds. But Lori and I will be married 20 years this August. Right. It's a long time. Right. And in that 20 years, that is kind of how it unfolded. For a while, I was on the rocket shift, and she didn't really have a chance to have a career. And then she passed me out. And then, you know, after I got my ass back in gear, I passed her up for a moment when she kind of got tired of what she was doing, and then she back. So it has been this game of tag and has been this game of you're leading each other. It has been this game of supporting each other when you're the one that's a little bit behind, you know, when you're not in your season.
Yeah.
And that's. That's how it plays out.
Oh, and, like, the gratitude of that, because that's where I see, like, that person that I'm playing life with. It becomes expansive.
Yeah.
Right. And that person can take you further than you take yourself.
Yeah.
Right. When they go, so, oh, I can't wait to get into Relationships. But so I heard the rocket ship, and it resonated with me very much. I had just been getting into online coaching now. I was starting this, I think was 2018. 2019. Somewhere around there. I think it was 2018.
Yeah. That's all very.
Yeah. And so I had just started, you know, online coaching, and I was doing gut health, but I didn't want to this. Oh. Like such a mindset. Like holier than thou, which was such a limiting belief. But I didn't want to make it a business. I just wanted to help people.
Yeah.
If I made another business, I would.
Wrap him up there, don't they?
Right.
Oh, I don't want to make money. That'd be icky. I just want to help people.
Yeah, exactly.
And help people. Unless you have money to do so.
Broke me through that.
Yeah.
So I. At the time, I'm working in schools, very raw on my grief journey. I am $100,000 goons at you. I couldn't help a whole lot of people. No, Right.
No. You could buy some. Be a sandwich, but that's a band aid. Right.
And I'd be just adding it to my debt.
You could volunteer a little bit, and that's wonderful.
Right.
But that's just a band aid.
Right.
Like, if you want to make real, lasting change, let's just start at home. If you're financial stress, then that's bandwidth that's taken from you that instead could be energy given towards a cause or a person that you care about.
Yes.
If you have financial stress and now you have to work 1, 2, 3, 4 jobs to get out of debt, now that's time. You could have been volunteering on a mass scale, not just once in a great while.
Yep.
And listen, always do what you can, but if you really, truly care about helping or moving the needle, and there's a difference between helping for a moment and moving the needle. This is where people get tripped up. If you care about actually moving the needle, it takes resources. And resources are time and energy and money. And the irony is time and energy are force placed somewhere that you don't want them to be unless you have money.
100%. And I'm curious because your podcast that I started listening to after I heard you speak when I was training for the Boston Marathon, so I would go on long training runs trying to memory my daughter and I would listen to your podcasts.
Wow.
And you said when good people made a good money, they need to do great things.
Yeah.
Where did you. Where did that. Like, did you always have that philosophy or did that come over time?
I could look back to always being a generous person. And I gotta thank my parents for that, especially my mom. She would do little things in raising us boys, my brother and I, she would. At Christmas time, we would adopt a whole bunch of families. And she and I, and sometimes my brother, we would go shopping for everything on the list for these families. And then we'd stay at the night ran wrapping the gifts. And then we would actually go deliver them ourselves to these families or drop off if they want to be anonymous when we're at church. And the offering plate would come through, they would give me or nick the money and put it. And there'd be more money than most people put in there, even though my parents weren't rich. And they'd explain, here's why we give as much as what we do. Or when we're out to a restaurant, they would give us the bills. Little kids, it'd be like, all right, figure out the tip. How much should be. Nope, it should be even bigger. Here's why this person left their family. So they could wait on our family. And, you know, we'll never miss an extra 10%, but they're going to, you know, 10% above. Beyond what normal people do. But, you know, to them, it's a sign of a job well done or appreciation or thanks for being your fan. Right. So they did a great job of instilling generosity, but generosity with meaning in us, as in us growing up. So it's always been a core trait of mine.
Yeah.
And I've had two core traits. For as long as I can remember, I have loved nice things. Like, I mean, I am unapologetic about loving nice things.
I love that.
And I'd be really generous.
Yes.
And I saw a correlation. I saw the correlation at a very young age that if you have extra, then you could give extra. And so if you have even more extra, you gave even more. Right. So these two things correlate. And that's kind of where. When good people make good money, they could do great things come from. Everybody could do good things.
Yep.
But if you have a lot of resources, you can do great things.
Yes. Oh, and that just really. That helped me break through that, you know, limiting belief. And so at that time, I remember stopping on the river, taking a picture, and you were talking about the elite entrepreneur mastermind. And I tagged you and I said, somehow I'm going to, like, earn the ability to run ema. And, you know, because there's a certain income level that you need to apply then for. And it kind of fell off my radar anyways. I tagged you in it and then.
We got back on your radar.
I know. Good thing you got back on my radar. I swear it was my daughter Leiden. I'm. I will say that for you, but yeah, and then I think, like, you replied, please don't go back and look in your DMs, please. But I think you replied, and then I think I had a trauma dumped on you, and I was like, rocket ship. I'm going through this in my relationship.
Oh, my God, I'm totally gonna go. And I only have to go look.
I was like, you can't ever tell Chris that you found that someone pockets. Because. Yeah, because I was going. I was building entrepreneurial career. I was leading schools, and I hear this a lot. And I. I'm sure this will resonate with audience. And obviously, this is a big. There's a big connection of grief. Grief and entrepreneurship are so similar to me and the skills that you need and that help you succeed. But a lot of people who are building their business or their brand or playing a different game are actually grieving the relationships they had, whether it's family, significant other. And sometimes they have to let that relationship go and choose what they really want. And other times it's working through a process. Someone was grieving what they thought it was going to be. But I was going through that at the time and no longer in that relationship. But that was something I really experienced, was that as I was stepping out of what felt safe, comfortable, maybe controllable, you know, in schools and schedule in this into something very unpredictable and on social media, it wasn't supported. And I think a lot of people can. Can resonate with that.
Yeah. You just mentioned, you know, letting people go in order to reach the level of success that you want. I think this trips people up. It's like, oh, that's horrible. I would never leave my family. I don't think you're leaving people behind. I think if you go where you are meant to go, unapologetically and with certainty, then everybody else has a choice to be inspired by that and keep up or stay back a hundred percent. And sometimes they choose to stay back. And there's no reason in hell why you shouldn't choose to stay back from who you were meant to be. Just make somebody else comfortable because they didn't want to get going. Right. So you're not really leaving people behind. You are going where you're meant to go at the pace that you're meant to go, and they're choosing whether they want to come along or not. And sometimes, unfortunately, they choose no. And that's where the grieving comes in. Yes, you're sad that this person you cared for is staying back, or you're sad that this person who was once a partner is staying back. But it doesn't mean you don't go where you're meant to go. Because if you both stay back, guess what? You're guaranteed to be miserable. Now. You stayed back and you got resentment. You were meant for more. You could have been this. You could have done that, and you didn't. Because you stayed back for this person. You think that relationship's gonna be good? It's gonna be horrible. It's gonna be tossed out. So there's no good outcome in staying back?
No.
There's only a good outcome in going where you're meant to go, no matter how far it is. Because it might. It just might. Remember my story with Lori? Might make the other person say, all right, I gotta get my ass in gear. And then they choose to keep up. And that's what life is about. Running to your destination with those that choose to run along with you.
Yep. Oh, so good. And two things I want to just drive home in that. One is that it's very humbling when we realize, like, if anyone is that dependent on us, like, staying behind for them, like, we're not that important.
Yeah.
Everyone's going to do okay.
Yeah.
Right. And it's almost our ego that's like, well, I can't possibly go ahead. It'll be.
That's very.
Some rock. But, like, none of us are that important.
That's a great point. I put that way before.
Yeah, it's. It's super humbling. And I think the other point to that was that if you are not wanting to go ahead, if you are truly in a position of selflessness and love, you're like, go, I'm staying here. But you go, you better go. You better fulfill your purpose. Because when you're really. And I. I think love and grief are true. The most misunderstood thing. And they're all connected. Right.
Yeah.
But if you're truly in servant love, it's not about you. It's not about. You're meeting me. How could you? Yeah, because actually, then you're not in relationship there. You're in. Within yourself.
Yeah.
You know, so there's just so many layers to that.
It's really interesting, this point you bring up about you're just satisfying Your own ego by staying back. People might hear that and understand what you mean, but it's true. It hit me. When you stay back, you're not, quote unquote, being the good person. You. You are staying back so that they won't say that you were bad for leaving them. And everybody, our deepest core needs us to be loved. Right. And so our fear is if we go where we're meant to go and others that we care about don't come along, then they're going to talk bad about us, say we got too big for our britches, our ego got too big. Who are we that we should do this? Or they don't care about family anymore. They don't care about where they're from. Right. Oh, and you're out there making impact left and right and starting charities and all this stuff. And they're saying these things because you. You just decided to go where you were meant to go.
Yep.
And the fear is that you don't want anyone saying these things about you because it's an attack on your character. An attack on a character means you're not loved. And if you're not loved, then that's our chord is everyone's biggest fear.
Right.
So it makes sense. When you stay back, you might do it under the disguise of, hey, I'm staying back to you, so we could be a couple.
Yeah.
No, you're doing it because you don't want people talking shit about you.
A hundred percent. Oh, it's so good. And then. And it's so similar to when people are like, I'm just a people pleaser.
Yeah.
People pleasing is not selfless. Right. People pleasing is of you protecting yourself from them not liking you.
Protecting your ego.
Exactly. So it's the same thing.
Yeah.
Ah, it's so good. That's so powerful. So I listened to your podcast. Fast forward six years almost to the date. It was one day. And honestly, I went off and did my own thing. And, you know, I'm doing all this. I moved to Mexico, you know, I kind of my next chip on my shoulder. Right. I think this whole game is about knocking the chips off our shoulders. Right.
Yeah.
I had an experience where I was in a mastermind, a high ticket mastermind, and it like, shut down without explanation.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Like your Kristen running, it just ghosted.
Yeah.
Okay.
I'm not gonna name.
And they had everyone's money.
Yeah.
And they're just like, peace out. I'm not doing it anymore.
Yeah. I mean, actually what happened was. And look, everyone has stories. She'll send, like, honestly, forgiveness and love, because I actually have reconnected with a lot of the people involved in it.
Yeah.
Right. So forgiveness and love and, like. But Triple A, I mean, life happens. Right? But I remember I get on and, like, I'm getting on a coaching call, and there's, like, an attorney on there who's like, so now to find out how much money everyone's paid and what you might be owed. Yeah. And as soon as I done. Damn. Yeah. So we had to clear any case. It doesn't matter. But I was kind of over. I took a mastermind.
Yeah. And I understand why.
Yeah. And so you felt my radar. And I'm in Mexico, you know, I'm going through, you know, the breakup, which, you know a lot. I'm changing my business and all this stuff. A lead entrepreneur mastermind, I don't think was on my mind, like, for years. And all of a sudden, in December of 2024. So this past December, I knew I was subbing into changes. I knew the book was being published and kind of scrolling on Instagram, thinking about, it's very into December. Like, what am I gonna do for 2021, Bob? You know, like, I don't like resolutions. New Year's resolutions. It's just like, but what intentions am I setting? You know, like, what am I going for? And your stories popped up, and it was like, apply here. And there was just. I don't even remember the last time I'd seen your story before that, to be honest.
Interesting.
I was just.
Yeah. Like, I wasn't in your algorithm.
No, you weren't in my algorithm.
Like, honestly, you were missing for the algorithm that day.
Oh, yeah. And it was like, I think it was your close friend or someday. Thanks. And it was like, you know, and whenever I clicked in it, and I was like, this is it. This is what I'm supposed to do.
Whoa.
And I sent you a message, and before you'd even replied, I'd already found the application and submitted it. I'm like you. When I want to do something faster, I'm like, I'm just going to do it. I don't need to think about it. I think it's a big part of entrepreneurship. Like, the feedback will tell you if it worked or not.
Yeah, exactly. You know, and you have to have the. The ability to take that feedback. That's what holds people back in Ashford right away. Oh, I'm so afraid this won't work out. I'm not going to start. Yeah, no, you just got to start do it. And the feedback is, it worked or it didn't. Do you do something different extent?
Yes. And I trusted you. I had felt I'd listened to your podcast, so I trusted you more, you know, and it was honestly the best decision I made.
This is amazing to hear. Yeah, it's amazing here because I'll tell you, we have a real deep fear, people. Deep pleading. Right. So our fears that somebody would take one of our things and then someone say, oh, you took that thing from Chris and Lori. How was it? If their answer was something like, eh, that's pretty good. We'd be heartbroken. And other people would be like, what do you mean? I'm okay with that answer. Not at all. We need the answer to be like, it's the best place I've ever put my money, or it's the best thing we've ever done, or, oh my God, it changed my life. Like, that is our standard one from, we want that for you too. I'll be really transparent because anything less than that, we're afraid that back to not being loved, that people would be like, oh, that's a disappointment. I thought they do better than that. That. Right. So our standard is what you just said, like, oh, it was the best money you ever spent. And when I hear that, it's so validating because of that fear around. What if it's not?
Yeah. So it's the best investment I've ever made. No, it really is. And I want to talk about like, what comes from that though, because first of all, I do want to say that my experience in Lori isn't that it's a people pleasing, that you want people to say that it's a standard because you actually really care.
Yeah.
I'd never experienced you guys to be like the people pleasing type. Rather like you really care, you know, And I mean, even when I trauma dumped seven years ago on Instagram. Sorry.
Though both can be true at the same time. Right. You got the thing that's driving you out of fear. You have a thing that's driving you out of love. And usually people have two drivers.
Yeah. So one of the things that I hear, because what has evolved through that decision to invest in the mastermind, really invest in myself through the mastermind. Right. One your style. Old school whiteboarding is just so me. Yeah.
We both have a good whiteboard stash.
I remember my application since I wrote like, I chopped wood, carry water.
Yeah.
And I like that stood out to you. And so. But one thing I hear a lot. I'd love to hear your experience being in the industry for so long is what do I get out of it? And I want to invite people into. What if you're not that transactional? And what if you're more open to opportunities? Because what has actually come from it? Because I think the biggest compliment in my career is that after three weeks of working with me, you hired me.
Yes. Yep.
Right. Like, I went. I didn't come to the Masterminds pirate.
We could have seen your talent if we did first look under the hood and see what you're doing and see how you're moving the needle. I was like, wait, we need one of you. And because we got to see under hood, we're like, why wouldn't it be you? Right. So it's so synchronistic that way.
Yeah. And I'm sure you've experienced that a lot. The transactional, like, what do I get out of that? And so maybe, I don't know if anything comes alive for you in terms of something that you've done that created something you never expected or, you know, stories like this. But I think that gets certible as under.
So listen, here's where people go wrong with masterminds. They think that if I spend a dollar, I should get two back in a relatively short amount of time. Except a mastermind is a much longer scope than that. It is the ultimate seed. Planting a mastermind is about the relationships that you're starting to make from. Relationship takes the time. Right?
That's it.
It's about the things that you're learning. But learning and executing takes time. It's about the network that you're building. But building a real quality network takes time. And when these things, when you plant these seeds, some of them, you get lucky and they sprout right away. Like you and I start to work together right away a few weeks later.
Yeah.
But a lot of times they are seeds that take one season, two seasons, three seasons, four seasons to finally sprout into a really wonderful crop. But you don't want to not plant your seeds just because it may not, you know, sprout into a crop for a couple of years. Because when it does now your life is that much easier next year, or your business is that much better in two years because of these seeds that you planted in a Mastermind back when you joined it. And a good example is my. My show, the Chris Harrier show, which was originally called for the Love Money. It literally wouldn't exist, and therefore we wouldn't be sitting here because you Listened to the show, right, without being in a mastermind. Lori and I were in his house mastermind years ago when he used to have one, and he pulled me aside and was like, hey, you really should have a mastermind. He's like, you'd be really good at this. And I won MVP for adding most value there. It wasn't even on my radar to have a mastermind because I had just barely started my show. And the reason why I started my show was in that mastermind in the beginning of the year, people are like, all right, what's your big audacious dream? Like, I've got this podcast I want to do, but I haven't gotten around to it. Matter of fact, I had paid 18, 000 for the domain name paylovemoney.com and it sat there for a year. And Lori would make fun of me. She's like, hey, remember you paid 18 grand for stop it. A domain name. Are you ever gonna do anything with it? And I'm like, yeah, I'll get around to it, but I'm busy. Yeah, I'll get around. And I was. I was busy. But let's be honest, you're always busy doing the things that it was a priority to, right? Yes. And so clearly I was saying it was a priority, but it wasn't. And when I said it in that room, when I said it, the master, right, were at a table, and they said, okay, great, when do you want to launch it? Byza? Well, I didn't know you wanted a date, but I guess by May, whatever. And like, okay, what steps do you need to take to launch it? I don't know. I guess I need an intro and an outro. Probably the first eight episodes probably pre recorded. And okay, when you get your. Get your intro outro recorded by, you put a date. And then they said, when you have your eight episodes recorded by, okay, who are they going to be? And they made me get this granular sitting there at that table in this very first Mastermind session. And so this thing that I paid $18,000 for and never got around to doing for a year, all sudden came to live, came to life in that room because they made me set steps and dates and held me accountable to it coming out. Not only did it come out, it came up actually ahead of schedule. And a lot of the people. A lot of the guests for the first year were people that were in that. And here's what Sony people are always like, hey, how are you friends with, like, Jenna Kutcher or Jim Quick Who's a dear friend or how are you friends with Lewis? How are you friends with Jay Shetty? How are you friends with all? How do you know all these people? Jasmine, Starr, everybody? Because we were all a bunch of young kids in the beginning of our careers in that mastermind.
Unreal.
And we all came up together. And people need to realize two things. Stop trying to plug into the crowds that are light years ahead of you.
Yes.
Instead, look to your left. Look to your right.
Yes.
Recognize who's the up and coming star and come up together, because this is going to happen fast.
Yes.
And if you don't guess what the person to your left and the person to your right, they're meant for Star. They're going to go where they're meant to go. And if you don't develop that relationship right then and there, really core into it, then you're not going to come up with them. This is your chance to come up with the next crop of stars by getting in these rooms, making these relationships and going out to battle together. When you're youngsters, you know, I mean, I mean, age wise, I mean, just young in your career. And then before you know it, a few years goes by and everybody knows who that person is. And like, how do you know them? I remember sitting down, helping them with the name of their company.
No, I mean, I think that's some of the best advice that I've heard in terms of looking left and right. Because I think so often we look up and, you know, the. I was talking about this with my clients that you have to just build relationships. Oh, my gosh. You just said so many good things, Chris. But one of the things I always say is like planting seeds. Yeah, right. A lot of times people plant one seed and then they sit there and they're like, what? When's it going to grow? Yeah, why isn't it growing yet?
I want my money back.
See, but if you plant so many seeds and then be like, what's going to grow is going to grow. Yeah, I'm going to water it and take care of it. Like that one micro that I didn't expect growing, you know, I mean, one of my business partnerships right now was a sales closer in that. That mastermind that I was referencing before. What a great thing. You know, I wouldn't be here if I hadn't joined Angie's Mastermind.
Yeah.
That was my first investment. I was $100,000 in debt. I put 6k on my credit card. I didn't even know who she was. I don't even know. I was just like, you somehow. Yeah. Something just spoke to me. I'm actually, I just make a decision. I think I heard her podcast and she was talking about this thing to help people with marketing, sales. I'm like, I'll do that. And you know, like, no sales call, nothing, just whatever. But I didn't get my 6k back in that. But to your point, like, I wasn't. Right.
Right.
But that laid the foundation that I needed here.
Yeah.
You know, and I still have friends from that mastermind. And. Yeah. It's just, I. I just. You just said so many powerful things. You also talked about accountability. And I just want to know. Chris had me make a wager. We got six dates.
Uh huh.
Rewind it to this. Going to get you tonight. Yeah. Or stay on the Mastermind, but stay till the end because I'm going to go there.
Yeah. We make everybody our mastermind. Set these wagers. Some are business, some are personal. Sometimes you do both. You chose both.
I did podcast. Here we are.
Yep.
And date. So we'll get it. We know how we're doing with the podcast. All right. Oh, we'll get into dates a day. Because I do actually want to talk about that in relationships, especially as women entrepreneur. But you know, talking about masterminds, I think it's really powerful to like, where are you looking? To the left and right. Which is obviously your belief because you built the mentor collective method on that. Now if anyone listening is insured, I'm referencing the mentor collective. Mastermind is, in my experience the best mastermind for that level entrepreneur. Right. 50k to 500k, like right around there. So if you're a 50k 500k entrepreneur, like, you have to check this out. I get coach marketing in it.
Yeah.
This is super fun.
Why did you check it out?
But you built the. Well, there's something about that that I think is very important I want to ask you about. But you built the mentor collective method, which is the multiple directions of mentorship. And I've never heard anyone speak into it in terms of looking left and right. Look up and then who you pulling up? And that to me is actually leadership. That's entrepreneurship. And so there's that. Secondly now, you know, I've been running 90 days CEO for 6 years and when I first met with you, it's like, okay, Melissa, you're fully done for you. You're fully marked. Like, are you sure you still want to have that? And my thing was like, I don't know where I would send them. That feels authentic and that I would feel good about.
Yeah.
And then after coaching a mentor collective mastermind for three months, I'm like, this is a. This is 90 days home now. Right. So depending when this comes out. Yeah, 90 day, after six years of running 365 days a year, you know, I'm going to be saying 90 day, this place can actually serve you better than I can.
Well, how beautiful though, right? Because everything is a season. And so you running 90 day was a season and a great season. But because you are now transcending into some superstar level stuff, some you gotta give something up. Like we all, we can't do all things always, right. Sometimes you have to give up good things for future great things. And that's just one of the crossroads that you're at and everybody else smudges at and you're saying, hey, to have the bandwidth to go this next level of starter that is already unfolding for you, then I have to give up a couple things that I love to get other things I love even more. Right. And that's your situation. Sometimes you're choosing between two very difficult decisions and you care about these people and you want to make sure they're taken care of and you don't just want to shut it down. So, you know they count on you. And so it was very responsible of you.
Thank you.
To be like, number one, I know that I need to create some bad width, but number two, I'm not just going to create it at other people's expense until I know that they're taken care of.
I couldn't.
You want to study about Winter Collective Mastermind while you brought it up? I just want to link it back to the story I told.
Yeah, please.
So the way that I came up with all those names that I mentioned in a mastermind that I was in originally.
Yeah.
All the coaches in there except for you, you came in a different way.
Yeah.
They all came up together in a prior mastermind that we had called Fast Findings and they're all a bunch of newbies and they all were just starting their business and now they all have these multi seven figure businesses and they're some of the best coaches out there. And that's how we knew that we could trust them to be the coaches on demand in the program is because we spent years working with them when they were just getting started and watched them come up and watched what their talents were and watched them operate in integrity. And so I'm telling you, like the way that everybody Ends up collaborating in a future is a. In direct response in direct proportion to the seeds you planted a little while prior to that.
Yes. Oh, it's so good. It's well, well speaking to that because it was a big decision for me and I had resistance. When you and I have a chocolate. We were whiteboarding. You remember that? Yeah.
When it was son, you gotta go, I can't do all this.
Right. And I mean the dying for you saw honestly, I didn't plan to start. It solves a problem. Profit margins are less than just coaching. It solves a massive problem. And I actually built a machine, so I love it. But you were like, are you sure you. And I was like, no, I can't. And at this time, mentor collective hadn't launched yet, so I wasn't familiar. But being in it, it's something that I was. I found myself reflecting on. But being in it, I was like this. I. I told my community I can't even compete with that because not only are you and Lori mentoring in there and doing coaching calls, mentorship calls, you have an entire, as you were saying team, which I love that all of them have been in your masterminds before. Which I think speaks to also letting go of what you get at it.
Yes.
To ensure none of them bought the heavy on your coaching staff and they'll.
Remember, say the long game that you're playing. The seeds take a while to sprout.
Yeah. So you've got sales coach, social media and podcasting. I do marketing, AI and tech, legal leadership and mindset and health.
Yep.
Right.
Yep. The old.
Okay.
All the important pieces.
All the important pieces. But I think what I've honestly found myself thinking about. Because you pay.
Yeah. Yep.
Right. And you have a standard. You get back to our community within 48 hour business hours. Right. And you pay us. But you could have gotten. You and Lori could have run this mastermind without paying. So it's seven coaches.
Yeah. Yeah.
That's not nothing.
No, it's a nice chunk.
And you pay as well.
Yeah.
So you didn't have to do that. And so I just have found myself genuinely curious why we're paying you guys. Yeah.
So I've got a funny story about this. I got. So one of the coaches, I won't say which one. I'm president. So I joking, I'm like, hey, we're put together this mentor collect the mastermind and we want people to be able to get their individual Questions answered within 48 hours of when they ask it. And so they have a Marketing question. That question goes in a marketing room. Your room. If they have a tech question, it goes in tech room, right. And they're guaranteed to get this answer within 48 hours. And so we needed coaches that would be not only top of their game, but also have skin in the game and be well compensated for doing it so that they never felt resentful about having to get back within that 48 hour standard to the. All these individual questions that everybody has. Right? And so from a right thing to do standpoint, that was the first reason we decided to pay the coaches instead of just doing it for free. Because what you're saying is you're like, hey, they all went coach in there for free. And you're right. But here's the funny story. One of them, I said, she's. She's like, okay, well what does it look like to be a coach in here? And I think, well, you guys are going to pay us in the ballpark, five to $10,000 a month, but you're going to be promoted in all the marketing and you're going to get exposure to all the members in there. And, you know, you're going to say that you're a business partner and blah, blah, blah. And she's like, okay, I'm in. And I was like, so and so. I don't want to say her name. So and so. I'm joking. You're not paying us to be in this thing. We're paying you. And she's like, oh. She's like, well, I was going to pay to be in it.
Isn't that hilarious?
And so I tell that story because people understand the importance of being in certain community 100%, and they understand the payoff that comes from being in certain community. And even though she was willing to pay us to be a coach and take care of our clients in there, which is hilarious, we would never do that. I just found it.
No.
Larry said, she's like, okay, I'll pay. I'm like, no, come on, I'm screwing with you.
But it's such a nice compliment for you and Lori that people are actually willing to pay to work in your community. It's funny. It is funny. But. And not only do you not hear the coaches, I'm saying you guys have enough brand power and experience and expertise that you probably didn't even have to add that in. What was the thought process on that? Because it's a bit barebone. We got our group text chat. You guys are checking things. We're like monitoring questions. We're getting what's going on, what is the community need, you know? And so what was the vision in making that decision? Because that is something. As someone who has coached coaches and been in masterminds, I've actually never seen a single mastermind assemble what I personally call a board of directors for the community and like each area. So what was the vision on that?
I want people to be seen and I want them to get their needs met in there. And listen, there's all sorts of different ways to put together a mastermind. So I'm not knocking anybody's. But I'm tired of programs where someone signs up with big hopes and dreams and then there's no one in sight to answer their questions, or there's only a few questions that get answered and they get left behind. I want this. When you invest with us, going back to what you say, what you said earlier, I want people to say, this is the best investment I have ever made in my life. And to accomplish that, we knew that they needed to feel seen and they needed to feel value whenever they needed that value. Let's be honest, business is not convenient. Meaning the problems don't arise when you have your Tuesday call. Right. They happen Sunday afternoon, they happen Monday. In the middle of the day, they happen. And you don't want to wait around for that Tuesday group call hoping your question gets answered. That's why it was so important to us to make sure that we had every category where a question could possibly be covered within 48 hours of them asking it.
It's wild. And I do, I check, you know, I check the community like every, you know, every day. And I've done more looms adding cage reviews and lead magnet reviews and messaging audits. But, like, it's amazing. And teacher me loves it.
And full transparency, you know, for anyone that run, wants to run a model like this, or they're curious, like, gosh, aren't you afraid they're going to take your customers? We're okay with that.
Yeah.
And so we've got this rule with our coaches, and I think it's important to be transparent about this. It's, please never solicit. Because I never want somebody to get in one of our programs that feel like they're being upsold. Right. So please never solicit. But if in answering questions back and forth, someone says, hey, what does it look like to work with you? I. I actually need someone to hold my hand in this area of sales, hold my hand in this area of tech, hold my hand in this Area of marketing, then by all means work with them as a client. We have an attitude of abundance. A lot of people are going to come into this program and we want them to graduate up to our elite mastermind or somebody else's program. The whole idea is not. It should be the, the. The medical system that we have in the US Meaning they want to keep you sick.
Right.
Right. So you keep making the money. It should be the opposite. It should be, hey, let me heal you. In other words, AKA let me help you move up in your business so that you can then go get even higher. Mentorship meant for you. When you get to seven figures, eight figures, nine figures. And that's why it's supposed to be.
No, I mean, I can't emphasize it enough. The. You guys have been such a contrast to a lot of what I experienced in terms of like feeling like, you know, I don't know how like constricted it was.
Yeah.
Versus like, you know, I said like, hey, Chris, so and so like asked about hiring these. Okay. Like, yes.
More than online school work with the me, the letter.
How does this work? Like, you know, you're like, go.
Yeah.
You know, you don't want anything. You do not want to know nothing. You, you. Because I asked.
Yeah.
You don't want anything.
I wanted to take the referral bonuses.
I know you wouldn't. I'm like, well, I'm on referral. And you're like, no. You're like, you invest in me. You. And I'm like almost on your payroll, you know. But anyways, it's just in so expansive to be in that environment, both as working with you on your account. Right. Like you guys as a client and as a client in yours and as a coach. Because I see it in every angle. And if it wasn't the real deal, I would have spotted it by now.
It's about what makes you so valuable to us, to be honest, is you do get to see it in every angle. So you're not just coming in as a contractor being like, oh, in theory, I think you should do X, Y and Z when you are a client in our elite level mastermind. So you get to see, okay, what's it like from a client experience. And then when you are our fractional CMO from a operational standpoint. And then when you're one of the coaches in the program, you get to see all three levels, all three perspectives of does it work? Is it real? Where's there's probably. Where's there a problem? Let's fix the problem, and that's the other thing is Lori and I aren't like, okay, the program's built like this is the way it is now. You know best. We're like, hey guys, what are you seeing? What are you hearing? What do we have to add? How can we do things even better? Yep. We want that feedback from you guys because you're on the front lines when you make a suggestion like great, let's do it right.
Oh, that's so good.
It should be this malleable thing that's always improving because yes, as times change, the program should change.
Right. Because the industry is constantly evolving. Oh, I hate when people are like this used to work. And I'm like industry genius industry generals.
The economy changes, trends change. So if your program staying the same, guess what your program is going to. Yeah, exactly.
You know, and, and I think it's just so valuable and having mentorship because you know, it's interest is that my business has grown. I can't even explain how much since you and I started together and our whiteboarding sessions and the soundboarding and like going back and forth. I, I just thrive in that. You know, I have whiteboards. My, like there's four of them and I was on with Nick the other day whiteboarding out. Like I got you gone. I was already whiteboarded out. I'm like, I'm going to walk you through this funnel, Nick. Right. But one in terms of. I think this is actually very important because I feel like I don't need something. Okay. I do marketing, messaging, branding and I do it very well. You were able to spot where my marketing, messaging, branding was off because I couldn't see my own because I'm in it.
That's the keys out is high perspective looking at. I can't stress this enough. The best advice in our life has been from people in other industries but successful in their own right because they can see the thing that somebody who is in our industry, like let's say it's incestual. The same ideas just being recycled over and over. That doesn't help anybody. I guess some best practices being shared helps everyone. But it's that outside perspective looking in that has this 30,000 foot view saying hey, you see this in your business, I see this for you right now. Have you ever thought of X, Y and Z? And that becomes like the mind blowing, revolutionary piece of advice where now you're the first in your industry to implement and then everyone else tries to copy.
It the way it should be a hundred percent. So since Working with you, we've had our biggest months. We're projecting for our biggest year, redid our packages, so it's actually more efficient, more scalable, rebranded, remapped. Like, I can't even believe how much has happened in the past couple months.
So what happened to cask you Russian?
Yeah.
We'll get you personal.
No, it's okay.
My goal for you was for you to be happier with stronger boundaries and operate in a more elegant way, in addition to scaling more and raising price. How has that part of your life and business changed?
Oh, in so many ways. Which one? I did segue into dating a little bit now, because that was the wager, but. Well, one of them. But I. My teen just says, like, melissa, you're so light. Like, I feel so light.
Yeah.
I think repackaging and simplifying, it just creates more ease and scalability. You have really helped me to work on the business, not in the business. And I talked to my team about it. So it's like, what you bring to me, I bring to my team. I'm like, hey, I hired Chris to help me. This is one thing we're really working on, team. Like, I need you to understand, if I'm less available, it doesn't mean I care less, because I would think if I wasn't available, they would think I didn't care. And I'm like, it's actually because I'm growing our company. You. You know, and I'm doing the things that grow our company. And, like, I trust you guys. Right, Right.
That's the way it should be. So why hire people, by the way?
100%.
It's not so you can babysit them and do the work for them. It's so you can say, I trust you. Let me know when there's something on fire.
Yeah. I've. I've learned to value myself more, you know, because I've even said, oh, Chris, Bob, I'll just do that. And you're like, no, we're not doing it for free muscle. Like, you won't let me.
We won't take an effort.
Yeah. You won't take a roll. Like, you really. And then that's gonna help me dating.
Yeah.
You know, I have worth.
It's worth is worth in dating, in business, in anything. Worth is. Worth is worth. And how you kind of treat one area, you end up treating the other areas.
All right, I'm gonna just say something that, like, I've never. There's problem. That's multiple things I've said on a part Is that I don't. You could call me out. You can call me forward on this. But I don't think it was a wordiness issue.
Yeah.
Because, like, I'm very, like, I know the value that I feel. I'm very aware. I mean, the results show, you know, like, I know I do a good job. You did help me increase my prices and look at my profit margin, Cena. But I honestly think that it's breaking a long history of not feeling safe, ever feeling like I owed someone something. And that's actually what plays into dating.
Yeah.
If I feel like I owe someone something, I'll be honest. I feel like they're going to come to me for something and I'm going to be, like, trapped.
Does that, like, hangs over your head like this asterisk back here. Like it's this looming debt that you have to pay one day.
Yeah. And I'm getting emotional. And because I. I've had. I had a string of that now. I created that. I allowed that. So it's not like, from a victim, but it's an undeniable sequence of somebody, like, taking care of me, you know, or doing, like, feeling like I accepted favors.
Yeah.
And then they came to catch him in ways that another talking about.
Yeah.
Right. And so you. Oh. And this is why I love entrepreneurship, because it. It grows you as a human. Because you will not get to the next level in your business if you don't get to the next level in yourself.
Amen. True.
Right?
Yeah.
And I love it because I'm a self. Like, I was a personal development junkie. I was psychology background. So when I kind of caught on to that game of entrepreneurship, then I became obsessed. I'm like, ooh, I can grow my business, give people jobs, give people a service, make money and grow. Yeah. Great.
Yeah.
You know, there's a way that I'm into psychology.
It's funny related to that. I've got a friend. His name is David Wood. David Wood's one of the most prolific teachers in the network marketing industry. And some people hate that industry. Some people love it. Regardless of what you think of it, he used to say something that is related to this, and he said he would say, hey, network marketing is just self development with a compensation plan.
Yeah.
And that really should be. Entrepreneurship is just self development with the compensation plan.
Yep.
And the more that you develop yourself, the more you could develop your business and therefore get paid more.
100%. So, yeah. I mean, you. Your to come back to your question before we go into dating. You know the things that you have coached have helped me. I mean one on the business sense. Right. And the, and the valuing my time, my expertise, growing my team more. I feel so light. I remember I left you a voice note that long ago and you're like, you sound so happy. I was like oh so faith. So I just can't thank you enough. I really hope anyone listening like just feels inspired whether it's Chris and Lori, you know to choose the worthiness of investing. But I'm going to say that a leap entrepreneur mastermind which I'm in. So if you're 700k and above, 500 paid above. 500k and above. I hope you apply to join me in it because it's the most fun place that I play business. Oh I'm zinging all these subscribers. Yeah it genuinely is. I mean it's the friendships. Yeah I mean I've always some people like Jocelyn. Yeah we just you're around people playing a big game and it's like we voice known and like it makes them think bigger. It 100% my business has grown. I'd grown and if you're 500,000 or below, I really invite you into joining the Metro Collective Mastermind or applying for that because. Yeah, because it is genuinely the best that I've seen with the most resourceful to get to that level above $500,000 level.
You know I really appreciate that and the reason why it's got so many hands on resources is when you're in those beginning stages you need that and then as you graduate more and more and more higher, higher and higher, you need that a little bit less. So said now you just need tools and freedom to go execute. But first you need someone to answer in the M.O. you know this. That's why we kind of built them separately that way.
Well I mean, yeah, I mean it's smart right. And that's where it's like you're, you're serving the person in the way that they need to be served. Not just in like how you feel like showing up. Yeah but so I like working with you guys though. Like you're a real deal. So in the elite entrepreneur mastermind. Now before we go into my wager which was six states and if you're all like Melissa six states, that's approximately six more than the last five years. So. Yeah. Yeah. Well podcast has been on the hiatus so we were talking about but yeah so before I go forward did what I say like you because I always trust and value your opinion and Your mirror back to me and what I said in terms of the worryingness versus the safety, did that pass the test?
Oh, absolutely. I think you've got, you've done a really good job of getting in touch.
Yeah.
With where you're being held back.
Yeah.
Or what your patterns are. And those are two in the same. Right. Our patterns fold us or our patterns push us forward. And so if anybody feels like they're held back in any which way, do the work to look at the patterns. Because a lot of times we want to blame other people, we want to blame the economy, we want to blame circumstances, we want to blame whatever. But a pattern, the only common thread in the pattern is always you. Right. So you, I mean, you listen. I mean you the person listening. Right. And so if it's a one off, great. But if you're always going broker, if your business always seems to not work, or if you end up with bad partners all the time, you always gotta say, okay, what's the pattern? A hundred percent patterns. Me. What if I changed something? Would I get different results?
Hundred percent. Yeah. I, I've seen a lot of people and I think mentorship helps you see the patterns because I've talked to a lot of people who, like, they don't see that. They're just creating the same kind of chaos, whatever it is, over and over. But. All right, so I would love to close out with some dating advice.
Oh. I mean, you realize I haven't dated for 24 years.
Yeah. Well, that's. Okay. So I wager six. And you know me.
Yeah.
I'm going down the six freaking days.
Yeah. But, yeah, you're, you're an achiever. You're gonna do it one way or another.
Yeah.
I might burn up your Tinder, but you're gonna heal right now that I.
Don'T come on Tinder yet. No, I haven't gone out.
Whatever dating app. I hear Hinge is the one.
Yeah, that's the one.
All our, all of our girls have good success with dating.
Well, two, two of the girls and they lead entrepreneur, mastermind. And this is what I love. Like, it's like friendships. We're having a glass of and on beautiful Saturday and they're like set up a profile now. They built my profile. Right. Like, didn't know I was going to get that out of signing up. Right. So I made it with Euro 6. Now here are a couple things coming up for me that I would, I would love, honestly, your feedback on. Now I, I have a lot of women entrepreneurs, people who Listen. Or men who can take notes. Okay. So men and women, get your notebooks out. Because genuinely, you and Lori have. And it's kind of coming full circle to how it started, how we'll. We'll close with this. This will be fun. Is you guys have the relationship. That is something that I. I'm. I don't want to settle. Okay. I don't want to settle. I'm not unhappy single. So what I like is I'm not in a place of need. I don't want a place of openness.
Or spot to be.
Right. And like, I know I. That one we're locking in.
Yeah. You know, without knowing.
But I think what comes up for me is how would you recommend. Or maybe how Lori does it is harnessing being very independent and, like, very happy without it giving across the. Like, I'm not open to it or I don't want it. Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah.
Be wildly transparent with your boundaries. State them up front. If something makes you jealous, tell them up front. If something isn't, if it's a deal breaker for you, tell them up front. If you've got a dream or you're going somewhere unapologetically, tell them up front. Don't be somebody who you're not meant to be. Just for a little while thinking, I'll tell them later. I remember when Lori and I first started dating. She had boyfriends in the past that would go strip clubs all the time, and she hated that. She said, hey, that made. We talked about this last night dinner, by the way, with another. With other people I were out with. And she hated it. It was a trigger for her. So when we started dating, one of my friends was getting married and I was going to this bachelor party, and she pulled me aside while we're dating, and she said, hey, listen, I've always played the cool girl and looked the other way, but I think we have something here. And so I just want to be honest with you. When people go to strict clubs, it makes me really jealous. It makes me feel some sort of way.
Yeah.
And so even though you go to this bachelor party, is there any world or any scenario where you wouldn't go to the strip club or partake in the strippers or anything like that? And she was so afraid. She shouldn't have been, but she was so afraid to ask this person that she was just starting to date to do this thing. Right? And I was like, of course, that's no problem. Like, that's an easy thing to. If that's what it takes, you know? Cause I like you to keep you happy. No problem. But she was so afraid to state that boundary, to share that vulnerability. Right. And because she shared it, I was like, all right, check the box. No strip clubs. And it's such an easy thing to do for somebody if they, if you care enough about them is to uphold the boundary that they ask of you, no matter what it is. For it doesn't have to be strip clubs. So that's a kind of a weird example, but a real life example as to she was unapologetic about her needs. And that was my moment to say, I care about you enough to honor it or not. So that's tip number one, Stop hiding what you want. Number two, when Lori and I met, we were not the Lori and Chris that you see now. We, in other words, we were out there looking for that perfect partner that was already making all the money and had all the followers or had this life or any of that stuff. We just had a couple of core traits in common and knew that we could build on those. The core trait common, number one is we both love fitness. And so we're in the gym all the time together. And we knew that if we had that in common, that would be a great foundational item to build life on. Sure. Second thing is we were both big dreamers. Now we were far from any dream at that time.
Yeah.
And we were hardy kids. I remember even, even about one year into being married. This is where people hear these stories. Like, what? You guys, it's about 4, 4:30 in the morning. We just crawled into bed. We had just gotten home from bars and an after party. And I remember rolling over her to her, looking at her. I don't remember this 20 years ago.
Yeah.
Being like, babe, I feel so bad for the fucking losers that ever stopped doing this. And I meant it. What an embarrassing thing to say out loud, but I meant it. Like, I feel so bad for the people to stop going out partying all night and all this stuff. And now we go to bed at nine o' clock every single. Right. So why do I share that story? Meet. It's be okay with people with their flaws. Be okay with where they're at in life. And you can be okay with that as long as you're sharing your future vision. We were both dreamers. Like, here's where I'm going. With or without you. I hope you're part of it and your boundaries. Hey, I don't like this thing, or I do like this thing. If you're transparent up front. That's gonna speed up the process of. Is this Mr. Or Mrs. Right or is it not?
Yep. Oh, that's so good. I love that. Oh, my gosh. I look back and I'm like, you know, I think I often said that Layden came in. I actually missed a woman last night. I think that Layden kind of came in and was like, mom, you're not learning all the lessons we're sending in. We've given you a million opportunities. Like now I so Britain come in and like, you know what I mean? Like, because as much as her case was termed her catastrophe, like my faith, my spirituality believes, you know, that that was her path that she was supposed to go on. And then she put me on the path I'm on. You know what I mean? I always. But, but, but to your point, when I was, you know, pre laden.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, that was Me, too. Yes. 100%. Me very. And fitness, too. So, okay, so I love the upfront communication. I do think a lot of times women can struggle with that. Probably a lot of people listening can struggle with that.
And you want to be liked. You want this one to work out.
Right.
So that you stop saying what actually means something to you out of fear of chasing them away. And that's the opposite of what you should do in business partners and in relationships. By the way, Matt, my business partner before we serve Velo together, we went to Miami, spent three days having the discussion of, okay, what's going to trigger you about me? And what's going to trigger me about you? What are my non negotiables? If we do this, what are yours? What am I not changing that you might not like about me? What are you not changing I might not like about you? We put it all on the table. And then we said, if we're okay with these snakes, then we can move forward. And we didn't just say, hey, here's the exciting idea, let's move forward and sweep those things under the rug. And then get mad that one person's doing this or one person's doing that, Right?
Yep.
We said, here's all the flaws and here's the ones I'm not changing. If you're okay with them, then we can go build this and we've got a great partnership.
I love that.
And I mean, Frolla started out like rocket ship. Best build, you know, tech build in the world. And all of a sudden regulations change and we couldn't launch it. And $2 million at two years in all of a sudden we had no business overnight, right. And so we went through this tumultuous time. It's. I liken this to a relationship going through a bad time around this tumultuous time of, oh my God, we spent all this money and all this time, we can't launch and we got investors. What are we going to do that would have torn apart a partnership if we didn't first say, hey, what are the non negotiables? What are we in this for? What's the long term vision? What do you like about me? What do I like about you? What's the deal breaker that got us through the tough times and now you know, we're about to launch. It's gonna be even better than what the original thing was. You can't make it through tough times if you sweep under the rug that things are gonna be major tension things when see what is easy, it's those things don't matter much. Right. When it's new and fun and all that, when the tough times come, that's when those things show up and rear their ugly head.
Yes.
So speak them out loud in the beginning and if you agree, you'll agree to.
Oh, that's so good. I love how you correlated how it could be any type of relationship, any type of partnership. Right now I have a story in my head that I got a lot of stories, Chris. Well, I swear by that. And I just have a couple more questions on this and now and then I'll. We'll let you close out with any final thoughts. But that because I am playing a big game, I will be less desirable because this is so bad. Like this is my limiting belief because men seek women that they can feel more powerful around. Now, obviously you and Lori this. So can you help me unpack that or dig into that?
Well, it's a valid fear that I'm gonna bust for you when I say it's valid. Lori has girlfriends that are super high accomplished individuals and a lot of them are going through divorces right now because they chose a man that wasn't able to balance the scales. So here's what happens. You go where you're meant to go and there has to be this balance of masculinity and femininity. Right. And what happens is you go where you meant to go and your masculinity is down a certain level. You better have a man whose masculinity is so much higher. That still balances the scales.
Yes.
Or the inverse can happen. You can be the masculine one and you better have a man that then fills in some of the other needs that you have. Right. But the whole point is this. There has to be a yin and a yang. Yes. You can't have two Yangs or two Yings in terms of like where you're both at the same place or the relationship won't work on a romantic levels. And so you have to choose somebody that if you're like, hey, I want to be a high performer and I want to make millions and I want to be masculine in business and I want to kick ass. Yeah. You have to choose someone who is so accomplished and so masculine that it'll still feel like they can take care of you. And the, that the yin and the Yang is there and the balance is there. It's okay, by the way, if you're the one taking care of them, if that's what the agreement is. But there has to be yin and yang. It can't be Yang, Yang and yin and yang, you know?
Yeah, no, I want to be taken care of. And I think as a high achieving woman, I want, I'd be curious if any of my listeners can relate some of the ones from like any of the women particularly. But I crave a place to surrender.
Yep.
Because I'm leading my team. I'm, I'm building the business and when I shut my brain off, I want to be able to completely surrender. It's funny, my Instagram went a little crazy the other day. I was just recording stories and I was talking about how being on the apps, I was like, people really did help with their messaging and brands. And you like, you know, like that, that should be an offer. Okay. Not going to be me, but that should be an awesome, like, let me help you with your messaging and branding on your dating profile. Right. But I was like, you know, like, I just, I went on this app because I'm not going to meet my man in tulum.
Yeah.
Right. And I, what I actually said is like, I need a man that like eats barbells, not mallow bees. Right. But that was kind of, that was an exaggerated way, a hyper, hyperbolic way of kind of playing on what you just said.
Yeah, that's true. You need yin and yang.
Yeah.
It doesn't matter how the yin and yang looks as long as you have yin and yang. That's what makes a relationship work.
I love yin and yang.
Yeah.
All right, so final question and then open it up to any last thought thoughts or things that you just want to share. What would you recommend for couples and business together. Now, what I love about you and Lori, because when relationships are hard, okay. And I think you spoke into, like, you can tell a lot when there's conflict, right? Like, that's important. Business partnerships are hard, right?
And now add them together is double trouble.
Add them together is double trouble. And I can imagine that there's been really challenges. Time. So what advice would you have? Because that's what I want. I want. Okay. I want us each to have our own things and then have our shared things.
Yeah.
Right. And you play tech.
Here's what I would say. When you have two type A's, or when you have two entrepreneurs, when you have two, you know, C suite executives and they're together.
Yeah.
And when you're building something together, that comes with some perks, and it comes with some new challenges. Yeah. The perks are, oh, how awesome to build an extraordinary life. How awesome to achieve something together. Celebrate the win, celebrate the highs. But then the downside is, it's when. When you're in business together now, not only do you have normal life challenges, but you have like, oh, we're fighting about the marketing, or we're fighting about the budget. We're fighting about a failed launch, or you're fighting about raising capital or whatever it might be, Right. Those are new challenges. Like when. If Lori comes to me and she's like, hey, babe, I need $500,000 for my new marketing this thing, or if I go to her, I'm like, hey, I'm paying a hundred thousand dollars a month into my company right now because we ran out of our fundraising. Like, those are challenges that normal couples don't have to deal with. And so positive. You get to chase down the wind together. Negative, you're inviting new headwinds into a relationship that normal people don't have. So the way to navigate that is to make sure that you are always carving out time on a daily basis to check in with each other and to know where each other's at. You know, Lori and I, we do that. Power nine.
Yeah.
Three things that you're grateful for every morning, three things that you're excited about for the day, and three things that you're trying to manifest or make happen right now. And so there's never a time where I don't know what's going on with Lori or what she's trying to chase down. There's never a time that she doesn't know what's going on with me or what I've tried to chase out. And so we could Support each other real time. And things aren't surprises. What really will derail an entrepreneurial couple doing big things together are the surprises. Right? Why did you tell me this was going on? Why did you tell me you were struggling? This. Why did you tell me this was important to you? And sometimes it's too late to course correct and so you gotta be able to address some. I would always say smoke, not fire. Address things when there's smoke, not when it's a forest fire.
That's so good. Oh, that is so wonderful. Well, Chris, I can't thank you enough. I mean, that was fine. We just like, it just blew by. I could. I could keep going, but you know, we'll have to do a second episode. I'm down. We'll do a second episode and we'll get Lori.
We'll do a follow up after your dates.
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. We could do a review. Can we whiteboard?
We could whiteboard. We put pictures of the guys faces up and call them out.
Oh, yeah, I won't do that because no one will go on a date with me if we were. She'll be anonymous. But you, you will be. Read it. We'll do all your faces up, dear. We'll change my angle about your faces. We'll put it on a whiteboard. I'll have to get Lori in here. Content. It's great content. And we'll do some data. Like, we'll create data metrics because you and I love data.
I love that.
Right? And so we'll just do ratings and I'll. Oh, it's so good. We'll invite other people from the elite entrepreneur.
Everybody gets a vote. Keep this guy. Don't eat this guy.
Well, you know, I think it's. I think it's really powerful to just kind of end on that too, because business, dating, relationships, challenges, all of that.
We covered a lot of grounding.
We covered a lot of that. But also, it can all be fun.
Yeah.
You know, it's not like, what's the point? What's the point?
This interview or your marriage or your business, there's not fun. What's the point? Life is short. I lost my dad unexpectedly in 2020, you know, way too young. And that was a good sobering moment of like, oh, life is shorter than you think. You better have fun while you're doing it. I know you had great loss in your life. And as a reminder, like, hey, tomorrow's not promised. Gotta have fun while you're doing it. And those things stick with me.
Yeah.
Like, if it. If you're not gonna make it fun, if you're not gonna find the joy, then what the hell's the point? Yeah. Because at the end of the day, we're just here to experience. And hopefully you have a lot of good experiences.
Yes.
And if you are not in a situation where you're creating good experiences, you gotta kind of check yourself and say, what would be better? How can I get there?
A hundred percent. I wanna add something to end on that, is that one. It's finding it, it's creating it, it's choosing it. Because if we. And this is a big part of my book so, of course, is if we wait for. Or we rely on circumstances to create the energy or the environments in which we live in our ways of being, we are in the dry, bringing passengers.
Yeah.
Yeah, Right. And so speaking of groove, it's interesting because I was actually going to ask you about your dad, but we just went on so long for so many things. But I would love to just honor him and ask you, how do you feel as though you carry his legacy and his light into your brand and your work and your life?
Dad is funny. He's a real agent. The fundraisers. I'm up. Dad was always happy. He woke up happy. He was happy to be doing chores around the house. He was happy to fix. He'd love to fix things. I can't fix anything. Saved my life. But he was happy. He was fixing things. He's happy with doing projects for us. He's happy with building things. He's happy when he's solving a problem. He was happy just to look at a sunset and have a 7 and 7. Like, he was always happy with the simplest things. And I've made it a mission to find the happiness and find the joy from the time I wake up, like the joy in the cup of coffee I'm having to the joy in doing this. Because you can find it if you look for it. I'm a big believer. You get what you look for 100%. And so he taught me look for the joy and everything, even if it's chores that you don't want to do right now.
What's your dad's name?
Bill.
Yep. All right. So if you didn't learn from anything from me and Chris, you learned from Bill.
I learned from Bill. Find the joy, find the happiness.
Yeah, but we would find the joy. Chris, thank you so much. Anything else you want to share with the audience before we let you go?
Just that I'm grateful that you had me on. And you're a tremendous host. And you add so much value, not just from a marketing standpoint to people's lives, but from now. You know, you tackling grief. And you, you have so much depth to you in the ways that you could help people that anyone who puts themselves into your atmosphere is going to become a better person. They're going to become better off. So you know, anyone who's listening to this, trust in Melissa. She's going to guide you the right way.
Thank you so, so much. Thank you, everybody, for listening. We'll put your links in the show notes. I hope y' all join me. Neither elite entrepreneur mastermind or mentor collective mastermind. That'll be so all the way. You'll get to be in our Eli circle. And Chris, thank you so much. I can't even believe how much you've impacted my life in just the past few months. We got a lot ahead of us.
Just get started.
We're just getting started.
Yep.
All right. Thanks, y'. All. Thanks.
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