Give Me 60 Minutes and I'll Eliminate Your Self-Doubt Forever | Benny Blanco and Mel Robbins

Today on the Mel Robbins Podcast, the one and only Benny Blanco is here with unbelievable stories.

I would cold call record labels, and then I'd call and I'd say, uh, yes, uh, I'm, I'm calling on behalf of Jay-Z. We need to speak to, uh—

From his 12-time Grammy-nominated songwriting and producing career, Benny has 29 number 1 hits.

Justin Bieber's Love Yourself, Ed Sheeran's Don't, Katy Perry, Rihanna, Maroon 5.

Benny will teach you how to eliminate self-doubt.

You're stopping yourself because you're scared, and you don't need to be scared. I'm gonna look at the camera again. You don't need to be scared. I still have imposter syndrome.

You?

I still do.

Overcome failure.

See, I fail all the time. Look, I just fucked up just now. Okay, so that's a perfect thing. Keep that in. Nobody take that out.

And reset your mind for success.

Look at me. I'm not like— it's not like some special thing. I have no special power. I wasn't born with anything special. I'm just a normal guy. I get to the brick wall and I like, I like, I like throw it to the ground. I run, I jump through it. I might break my neck or something, but I'm going to die trying to do it. Here's what you need to do.

Benny Blanco, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

Oh my gosh. Are we on?

We're on.

Oh, wow. Okay, I'm ready.

So am I. Here's where I want to start.

Okay.

If the person listening takes everything to heart that you're about to share based on your life experience and your crazy career about the importance of failure, the importance of how you handle self-doubt, if they really take to heart what you're going to teach us today, what the heck could change about my life?

I got a few things. One, I'm from Virginia. I'm not from Los Angeles. I am not from New York City. I did not grow up with famous parents. I did not grow up with a ton of money. I was like a funny-looking kid. And somehow through sheer will and not an incredible amount of talent, I really don't have an incredible amount of talent. I'm, uh, not the hottest guy you've ever seen in your life, but somehow I married the most beautiful, talented woman on planet Earth. I did everything I wanted to do in my career, and I'm still searching for new amazing opportunities every day. Like, look, if you're 5'4 and you want to be in the NBA, I'm going to root for you, but it might be an uphill battle. I'd say almost everything in the world You can do, you can do most of the things if you work hard at it. It's just about getting started. Okay? So everyone always gives 9 million excuses why they're not gonna do something, why they can't. So they'll, they'll say, oh, um, I'm gonna write this book, but oh shit, first I gotta get a typewriter. Oh no, I'm not gonna do a typewriter. I'll do it on my phone. No, no, I gotta be old school and I gotta do it. Uh, I gotta write it by hand. And there's, By then, it's been 3 weeks and you're still figuring out what apparatus you're gonna use to write your book. And it's just about starting now. Start today. I don't care, whatever idea you have, if you have one idea, and it's usually the idea you're too scared to tell anyone because you're embarrassed, you're shy, you want all of the above, start doing something to move that from here to here. I'm asking you to move it 3.5 inches forward. So just 3.5 inches forward today. If you can do that, just start to do it. And you know what? The thing you start off doing might not be the thing you do in the end, but you'll probably land somewhere pretty fucking cool. Like, I thought I was gonna be the biggest singer, rapper in the world when I was 11 years old. That didn't happen for me, but I did get to do some pretty cool shit along the way. So just start somewhere.

You write on the back of this book, I wrote this book to show you why it's the key to success, failure.

Yeah.

Every hero you've ever had has failed more times than you can imagine. Nobody is keeping a scorecard on your life except you. And if they are, they're an a-hole. Embrace failure and never look back. Why do you think it's so hard for people to start? Why do we get so up in our heads What are we afraid of, Benny?

I think it's really hard for people to start the engine because there's so many what-ifs. There's so many things. Well, what if I post this and then my friends from when I was younger make fun of me 'cause it looks like I'm trying to be like too reachy or too preachy or too this or too that? And then someone says, well, what if I post my music video and it gets zero views? Well, what if I try out for the basketball team and I don't make it? And what if I, you know, go to acting class and they tell me I'm bad? People are scared of being embarrassed, okay?

Hmm.

And it's something that we were taught, and it's not true. I fail every day. Okay? I fail every single day. And one of my friends, one of my friends told me, he said he was going through a tough time. He, very successful, had something that failed in his career and he like couldn't get over it. And he said, you're standing on a soapbox talking about how you're gonna do something and it's gonna be the biggest, best thing in the world. And, you know, 90% of the time it is. He said, but even when you fail, you just wake up the next day and you just go about it. You just go about it like nothing happened. And I started thinking about it and I said, well, I guess I have like a failure to amnesia.

What does that mean? Failure to amnesia?

Or amnesia to failure.

An amnesia to failure.

See, I fail all the time. Look, I just fucked up just now. Okay, so. That's a, that's a perfect thing. Keep that in. Nobody take that out.

I'm not taking that out. Okay. Don't you worry.

So I—

You have an amnesia to failure, meaning you forget about failure.

If you forget about the failure, I feel like everyone else is gonna forget about it. Like, look, like, okay, okay.

Look, did you— I wanna make sure that as you're listening, you actually heard what Benny just said, that if you forget about the failure, everybody else is gonna forget about it.

Yes. Okay, look, this.

What do you— oh, so he's holding a board that says failure.

What does that say? Yeah. Anyone listening, I'm holding a board.

It says failure. Okay.

This is, this is you. This is me. We are this board. We are together. We both have lots of failures. But if we just go like this and we go like that and we go like that, and you just pretend that I'm really good at erasing and there's none of those little specks of failure there anymore. Right now we have a blank board. Okay, so you're looking at this right now. This is me. You don't see failure. You see nothing.

It's so true. But hold on. You know what I see when I look at you?

What?

Because this is one of the reasons when you and I first started talking, and I think you are such an incredibly powerful and unique teacher. I really do. And yet I was like, okay, and how do I get over the fact and overcome the fact that when somebody looks at you and sees your career or sees you in the public eye and sees all the accomplishments, there's that distance that's sort of like, okay, well, it's Benny Blanco. I mean, what could he teach me about how I'm going to get happiness in my life or meaning in my life? Do you see what I mean? And so People look at you and only see the accomplishments, but they don't see the failures that got you here.

Because nobody's looking at those failures. What do you remember about Michael Jordan? He dunked from the foul line. He scored the most amount of points out of anyone. Maybe LeBron broke that now. I don't even know. But at that time it was that. So you're sitting there, you're looking at Michael Jordan, and are you counting all his misses? He took the most shots out of anybody. And it's like he's not sitting there saying like, I took 22 shots today. I shouldn't take any more. I only made 6 of them. No, he's gonna shoot the fucking lights out until he gets what he wants. And I feel like you, me, we're all doing the same thing. I should be the exact person you're listening to. Look at me. I'm not like, it's not like some special thing. I have no special power. I wasn't born with anything special. I'm just a normal guy. Who works really hard and gets what I want. Because most people, when they get up to that line where it's just a brick wall, okay, you're sitting at a brick wall. Most people, they get to the brick wall, they go, ah, it's a brick wall, I'm gonna turn around. Me, I get to the brick wall and I like, I like, I like throw it to the ground. I run, I jump through it. I might break my neck or something, but I'm gonna die trying to do it. And that's just if you have the motivation and you just keep going. going, and you don't let anybody tell you you can't do something because of this, this, and that. You can do it. You can do whatever you want if you put your mind to it. Almost.

Well, Benny, you know what I find fascinating is that a lot of, at least for me personally, I can see years wasted waiting for either somebody to pick me or somebody to notice or somebody to give me permission or the Perfect conditions. And as everybody's been waiting around for some other person to give you the signal, what it's easy to miss is that the only person that's actually stopping you from doing something is you.

And you're stopping yourself because you're scared and you don't need to be scared. I'm going to look at the camera again. You don't need to be scared. Nothing bad is going to happen except maybe You, you, you're right where you started and you just gotta keep working harder at it. And I'll tell you one thing, I've been at the top and had to go all the way back to the down, uh, to the bottom and come back up. Has that ever happened to you? Have you ever been at the top of your game and fallen down so far you don't even know where you could go and then you gotta climb all the way back up?

Yes. 41, 3 kids under the age of 10. We were doing great. My husband was in the restaurant business. Things went sideways. We found ourselves $800 grand in debt. Liens hit the house. I lost my job, couldn't pay for groceries. Like, yeah.

And what'd you do?

Well, first of all, I drank myself into the ground and then laid around in misery and bitched at my husband and blamed the world for my problems. And that didn't work. And then I finally got so sick of where I was and I got so sick of waiting for somebody else to rescue me. And I got so disgusted by the spiraling that I was creating and the envy that I felt watching other people progress in their lives. Like, I literally got just disgusted with myself and the stagnation and the self-loathing that I just had this moment where I just said, Actually want to change my life? Prove it.

Do you remember where you were?

Yes.

Where were you?

I was lying in bed on a Tuesday morning, February 2008.

And then how many things do you think you tried before things started going your way? Like, how many times did you try to get a job, try to do this, try to get money?

Oh, my God. I mean, it took every day, all day long. That's my life. That's my life. But when you say, That you don't have any special talents.

I really— look, obviously I know how—

Convince me, because I don't believe that.

Okay, here's what I'll—

Because I think it's a special talent to start, but I think you can teach us how to do it.

Yes. I know if I show up every day, if I just show up, okay, that's the first thing you got to do. Just show up. Okay? I just show up. Not even— maybe I don't know even what I'm doing. But if I show up, and eventually if I show up, there might not be the other guy there and they just need the next best thing. And I happen to be like, it's really not that complicated. Look, it seems so complicated. It seems daunting for me. I started, okay? I had a dream. I wanted to be a musician, a professional musician.

Okay.

Music is gonna be my life. And I just, I have no connections, 0.0 connections. So there's nothing, there's nothing there. There's no point of entry, zero. I can't even go show up somewhere. I don't know where it is to show up.

It's so true.

So I would go and I would wait outside of recording studios when I was probably at this point, like, 10, 11.

10 or 11?

Yeah. I'd go to a studio, I'd have my mom take me, I'd go to a studio and I'd wait outside and I'd wait for a person to walk out and I'd say, do you make music? And that was— I would just ask. And then I'd say, can I do anything here? Can I do this? Can I do that? And I was just trying to be in the room. Because if you show up and you're in the room, something's going to go down, something's going to happen. You're going to either learn, you're going to get an opportunity. So much of it is just showing up and then finding the room. Okay? That's the first 2 things.

Okay. And your mom, you figured out where recording studios are, so you're showing up.

And I remember the turning point for me is the first form of social media came out. Okay? And it was called— well, the first form that I got was called MySpace. Okay? And I got on MySpace. Okay.

So again, showing up.

Yes.

Putting yourself in the room. These can be real rooms.

Yes.

They can be digital rooms. Yep.

And we didn't even have a computer at this point. So I would do it at lunchtime in the library, and I would do anything I could to get in touch with people. So first thing I started doing is I would cold call record labels. Okay? And let's say I was calling Interscope Records. I would call up and I'd say, is Jimmy Iovine there? Jimmy Iovine ran Interscope Records. I'd say, is Jimmy Iovine there? And then I would look up who Snoop Dogg or Tupac Shakur, I'd look up who their lawyer was. I'd look up online. And then I'd call and I'd say, Yes, I'm calling on behalf of Jay-Z. This is Michael Guido. We need to speak to, You know, Jimmy immediately, and you know half the time they wouldn't do it. But occasionally, I would get put through. Okay, so I'd be put through to the president of the company, and I'd say, "Oh, I'm sorry. This isn't Michael Bido. I just want to let you know this is Benny Blanco. I have all this music I want to show you." Blah blah blah. And I'd get hung up on, and but eventually I started becoming friendly with the interns, with the people that answered the phone, and I I I. And I kept those relationships up till this. I mean, my manager, my manager of my career is a person I met when I was 16 years old doing all these same shenanigans, working for people, interning for people. And I still am with him 20-something years later. And a lot of those people I first called are now the heads of companies. And I still have those relationships 20-something years later. And I started, I had no idea what I was doing, but I got up, I woke up, and I did the same thing as you. I got outta bed, and I just, I start every day myself. I try to make every day the best day I can for that day, okay? And the only way you don't get better is if you don't get outta bed. And getting outta bed doesn't just mean getting outta bed. Getting outta bed means, going and attacking the day. And as long as you start attacking the day, it will get better.

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Thank you.

This is page 72. Okay. Here's a fun fact. You're never going to feel ready to start. If you wait around until you feel prepared or like you have enough experience or like you know how it all works, I will come back to check check on you in 5 years, and you will still be standing exactly where you are right now. Success is not worrying about the inevitable failure that comes from not totally knowing what you're doing. It's about going all in with so much conviction that everyone believes you, including yourself, then rolling the dice. What does that mean?

Right before I do something, I get scared. But it's a different type of scared. I'm not scared to do it. I'm just, it's about to happen.

Hmm.

It's about to happen. And there's that moment where you go, do I want everyone to know this? Do I want everyone to know this?

Do I?

Fuck it. And then you just go for it. And I'm always, I'm gonna go for it because if I believe it, if I can sell a dream to myself and to the people around me, it's gonna start work. It's just gonna start swaying in your direction. Like the gravity will pull. It's gonna, it's like if you have the energy on your side and you're moving forward, even if some things are pushing you back, eventually you're gonna be able to push through. And it's just most people find it hard to do that first push. And a lot of people don't believe in themselves.

Well, what would you say to the person who's listening? Like, I want that. Yes, yes. And I don't believe in myself. Maybe they've been rejected after trying for a little bit. It's taking too long. And so that self-doubt is really there. What would you say to the person who's listening who's like, Benny, I want that, but I don't know how to start believing in myself.

How bad did the rejection hurt? Okay, that's first what I want to know. How bad was it being rejected? Is it bad? Yeah, you ask someone out when you're a kid and they say no and you're embarrassed for a few hours and then you come back to school the next day and nobody gives a shit because a new person got asked out and rejected. So first you got to know how bad did it hurt to be rejected in its I promise you, you're sitting there, you're talking to yourself right now, and you're saying it's not that bad in your head. You wanna say it's worse. You really wanna say it was this terrible thing and I couldn't get outta bed for 16 years. No, it's, it wasn't that bad. It wasn't that bad. It, it sucked. It sucked for a second. It wasn't that bad. Okay. So rejection's not that bad. So that's not your excuse.

Okay.

Is it gonna be hard? Yeah, it's gonna be hard. What, you, you just wanna like immediately be the best at something in the world? No, you're gonna have to work at it. Okay? You're gonna have to work at it and you're gonna fail and you're gonna have so many barriers and you're gonna have so many times where you wanna quit, but you're not gonna because you know that if you do quit, you're just giving space for that other person trying the same thing to just get right ahead of you.

Oh God, that's a good one. Yeah. That the second you quit, you actually just—

Open the door for someone else.

I think what you're talking about is really interesting because a lot of people believe that the path to getting what they want should or will be easier than it needs to be. And it will be. Let's talk about that.

It's going to be harder.

Yeah. It's going to be so much harder. Than you think it is.

You're gonna work harder than you've ever worked in your life, and you're gonna wanna quit. I wanna quit all the time. I'm exhausted. I'm tired. Like, we're all tired. Everyone is tired. I'm looking at the— are you tired? Yes. You don't even— you're— I know you're shaking your head yes. We're all tired. Everyone is tired. I'm tired doing a thing that I love more than anything in the world, but I'm, I'm tired because I'm putting in the hours and I'm doing—

Mm-hmm.

And you know, sometimes, look, I'll be for real with you. Sometimes I've been working all day, okay? And I finally get home. I'm exhausted. It's, you know, it's 8. I gotta make dinner. Selena's waiting for me. She's been waiting to eat. And yet sometimes I come home and I'm exhausted and, and, and I know I have to give that to her because she wasn't She wasn't part of that day. She, her day's just starting now with me. Success comes in so many different forms. And if I get to come home and I listen to everything she's saying and she tells me about her whole day and we get to connect on a deeper level, like that's a whole different, that's my other, that's another sign of success. I didn't fail. I succeeded.

You know? Well, I, I really got something outta what you just said, so I wanna hover right here for a minute.

Okay.

Because you said something that has never quite hit me that way, which is when you get home after a long, stressful day and you are walking in and your wife Selena is there, her day with you is just starting. And after being with Chris for 32 years, Yeah. I will tell you, that poor man typically gets the worst of me, even though he is my favorite person in the world and deserves the best. But I had never thought about framing it as your kids or your spouse or your friend or your brother or your mom, their day is starting with you when you walk in at the end of the day.

Of course. Of course. Look, you're not gonna win every time. Like, I've, and I'm competitive until the thing's over. Like, let's say it's like, I'm in a race to get a song number one or to get number one on the the book charts, or I'm I'm gonna give it my all and I'm gonna be competitive as shit and do everything I can. Or if I want to get that job, I'm gonna do everything I can. And then at the end, whether I get it or not, that's the end. I did my absolute hardest. I put all the effort I could possibly do into it, and I'm happy. That's success to me. Whether it's technically a failure or not, that is still success to me. That is the definition.

So do you have a trick? Like, if you put your all into something and then it doesn't happen?

Yeah.

Is there a way you unhook yourself from the fact that it didn't happen?

Yeah. I say, what else could you have done? You did every— if you do, I only am mad at myself if I didn't do all the things. Sometimes things don't work. Sometimes it's not the right time, not the right place. I'm not gonna give up on that passion, but I might have to go back to the drawing board and say, okay, how did this not work? Like, what can I do differently this time to make this work for me?

Yeah.

And sometimes working doesn't mean being number one on the chart. Like, for me to know that this resonated with people, for me to know this or that. And I look at it, if I did everything I possibly could do, It's complete. And the only way that stays a failure and doesn't get flipped into a success is if I didn't learn from what happened during that failure.

What I wanted to unpack with you, Benny, is the fact that it is also hard to not do it. It is hard to sit in the self-doubt. It is hard to say all the what-ifs. It is hard to think about all the things you could be doing and watching everybody else do it. And at some point, understanding that either one, doing it or not doing it, is hard.

Oh my God, they're both painful. Everything is, look, that's what I'm saying. It's like everything in life, is gonna be hard at some point. That's just how it works. The best things in the world— you say you have a kid, you love your kid, something's gonna be fucking hard. You have a relationship you love, I don't care if it's the best relationship in the world, it's hard because 2 people are fitting together and 2 people have completely different lives and they have to coexist and live together. Let's say you're working in a job With, let's say you're working for someone, it's gonna be hard because you're gonna have to do things for that person above you. Let's say that person above you is having a shitty day and they're taking it out on you. Like, it's gonna be hard. It's all gonna be hard. So it, your point's perfect because it's like, if it's all gonna be hard, at least do something that's gonna have some relief somewhere rather than just sitting in a hole that's always gonna be a hole of misery.

What is this big fear that you got over?

I wouldn't say got over.

Okay.

But, okay, so I was on an airplane in 2009. So I get on the plane. My plane instantly is a terrible flight. Like, it couldn't be worse. It's like one of those flights where no one's allowed to go to the bathroom. There's no drinks, no anything.

That's the sign that things are dangerous when they don't put the cart in the aisle.

Well, they had it up at the beginning and it flew down the thing. So it's tense. Get off the plane, get on another plane that's like this big.

Such a—

And I'm connecting. It's like me and my 3 friends, and I can like smell what the pilot had for lunch. And then I tell my manager, I say, On the way back, I say, like, I don't know if I can fly home. And I remember I took a train home. So I took a train back to New York from Florida.

From Florida?

Yeah. And I was like, oh, it was so annoying. But then I get home and I fly again a few times. I remember I had a girlfriend at the time in London. I'm going to see her. It's okay. Like, I'm okay, but I'm like really on edge. Like, every little bump is like making me nervous. On the way home, this was back in the day, I don't even know if it's like this anymore, where like your TV came out of like a thing next to the rest or whatever. And I remember I'm on there, we hit a bump, and my TV thing just flies off. And I'm like, I'm never flying again. At this point, first I like, my brother drives me across country for the first time. And then my friends did. Then I took a train, then I took a bus, then I started taking a tour bus.

And—

I really never flew again, really, after that. I, um—

For how long?

I flew a handful of times after 2009, and I flew once in 2018, and I flew once in, like, 2019, and then I flew once, like, a week or two ago. Or like a month ago.

Really?

I flew a month or two ago for this book because I said, if I'm talking about failures and successes and coming over, how could I not get on a plane? And I was scared, but I didn't hit the snooze button. I woke up, I attacked the day. And I got on the plane, and then I went and I ate tacos. But I was scared. I was scared, but I did it. I was convincing myself that I was going to do it. I don't know if I'm cured forever, but I was still very scared. But I did it. I did it. And then I'll tell you something. I'll tell you a few stories. One time, I was— me and Ed Sheeran were finishing The Divide album, okay? And that's like his album with Shape of You, Perfect, Castle on the Hill, like so many, so many big songs. And he said, I want to finish the album in my hometown in Suffolk, which is on, you know, the coast of like— it's on like the water in England. So I said, Ed, I don't fly. And he knew I didn't fly. And he said, come on, man, just fly. And I said, I can't fly. And he said, well, what if we take a boat? So we took a boat from New York City to London, and it was 7 and a half days.

And we watched the Titanic on the boat while we got out of the game. Oh my God. You are a glutton for punishment.

And we made— we actually made a lot of the album. on the boat. There's a documentary out about the whole experience.

Huh.

And I'm crazy. And I still— I wanted to prove I could do this because I have to practice what I preach. But yeah, it still haunts me. It's still hard. It's still— I did it, but it was tough. It was really hard. And I'm going to have to do it again. And I'm gonna have to do it again. But yeah, I'm literally taking a boat in a few weeks to Europe again.

Again?

Again.

How does it feel to know that that fear is stopping you from making certain decisions?

It's— it doesn't stop me from making decisions because I work so hard that I have to find a way to do it. So I still get to whatever destination I need to, But yeah, it's stupid. Are you kidding me?

Well, it's not stupid 'cause it's very real.

It is stupid. It's very stupid.

It doesn't— But very real.

Stupid and real don't mean, like, it's stupid. And sometimes, look, I'm not saying you have to be perfect. I am the furthest version from perfect that there is. I mess up constantly. I'm the same guy who will go in and I'll say something. I'll say, ugh, why did I say that? That was so stupid. I shouldn't say that. Or I'll have, you know, always— I'm still— I still have imposter syndrome.

You?

I do.

When?

I still do.

Like, put me at the scene when the last time you had imposter syndrome.

When I walked in here today.

Oh, not really?

I'm saying when I walked in and there was a bunch of people in here, the first thing that I said, I said, oh, why are all these people here for me? This is like, shouldn't they just do their stuff? And I got— and I— and I— And I started getting embarrassed. And sometimes I'll be like, always when I'm doing one of these things, I'm like, well, why does a person want to listen to what I have to say? And I think that's also part of what helped me get to where I am today. I just want people to really know, because it's very easy for me and Mel to sit here and say, you're going to do this and you're going to do that. But I know for us, there's always, there's forms of self-doubt. There's times when we don't feel like doing it. There's times when I wake up and I say, fuck, I can't do it today. The point I'm trying to make is I feel like sometimes people will start what they're doing and then they'll regress and they'll have that moment and they'll say, oh, it's already gone. It's already— I stopped. I can't do it. And it's not true. It's not true. You're just gonna get up and you're gonna work twice as hard tomorrow. It's not always perfect, and that's okay. And it's okay to fail, and it's okay to be bummed about failing too. But in the back of your head, you still gotta be like, today I couldn't do it. I couldn't fight. I wanted to, I couldn't do it. And tomorrow I'm gonna work fucking 3 times as hard.

I wanna make sure as you're listening, you really heard something really important that Benny just explained, which is when it comes to success and creating The life that you want or going after goals that you really feel called to go after, the skill is not that you just start and you keep going and then suddenly it gets easier. The actual skill that creates the things that you want is continuing to wake up for decades and not feel like it, continuing to have it be really hard. Continuing to question what you're doing, and the skill becomes showing up anyway. That's what I kind of hear you saying. Yes. That it's not about that if you just keep showing up and you just keep producing the music, or you just keep posting the videos, or you just keep trying to lose the weight, that it's going to get any easier. Because I don't think it does.

No, that's people's biggest misconception. Look, I'll tell you a story.

Tell me a story.

I, the year is maybe 2015. I don't even know. I'm so bad with years. I was a really successful producer and songwriter and I—

Can, can you stop before you tell the story? Can you just tell the person who's listening, like, like what does that mean? Like how old were you when you signed your first record deal?

Well, I signed my first record deal when I was 7, uh, 18.

7?

18.

Oh, okay.

18.

18.

My first like real, real one. Basically, I started writing songs for other people. Okay? I had a knack for it, I guess, and I was able to create most of like the soundtrack for like kids' childhood from a certain from a certain era. I hate talking about myself, but for all intents and purposes, I was at the top of the charts for many many years for writing. most of the popular songs at any given time.

Well, just give the person a couple, like, 'cause somebody might not know what you're talking about.

Hold on.

You're not talking about Kidz Bop.

No, I'm gonna— guys, this is so embarrassing just because I always forget. I'm gonna literally Wikipedia myself. I'll read a few. Katy Perry, I Kissed a Girl. Katy Perry, Hot and Cold. Britney Spears, Circus. Kesha's Tik Tok. Kesha's blah, blah, blah. Kesha's Your Love Is My Drug. Katy Perry's California Gurls, Katy Perry's Teenage Dream, Rihanna, Diamonds, Maroon 5, Moves Like Jagger, Maroon 5, Payphone, Maroon 5, Maps, Maroon 5, Animals, Ed Sheeran's Don't, Ed Sheeran's entire X album, entire Divide album, Justin Bieber's Love Yourself, Major Lazer's Cold Water. Señorita by Shawn Mendes and Camila Cabello. I mean, I'm done.

Great. No, that gives good context. So let's go back to the story now that we have the context. You said it was like 2015.

We're going even earlier than that.

Okay, great.

Okay, so I was really in a good position.

Okay.

I had all this success, all these number ones, and I was finding it hard to get The work I wanted, and I was like, why is this so difficult? And I was like still running into the same problems. I always thought, and when I was younger and I was making these songs, oh well, once I have all the hits, everyone's just gonna come to me. I was still running into the same problem, and honestly, it was even worse because people were like, oh well, you made any song you played them has to be the biggest song in the world because they're expecting something that's. So larger than life. And I was on tour with Ed Sheeran, okay? And The Defiant Ones had just come out by— it's a documentary with Dr. Dre and Jimmy Iovine. And I remember sitting backstage at Gillette Stadium with Ed Sheeran, and it was his first time ever playing a stadium show. And we were watching Defiant Ones and it just finished. And he stood up and he said, man, they did so much in their life. What the fuck are we doing with our lives? And literally as he said, what the fuck are we doing with our lives? A man comes backstage and says, all right, Ed, you're on. And Ed went and played in front of 75,000 people. And I remember right after that, I called my manager, who's right outside, the guy I've known since I was 15. And I said, we got to do something different. No one's taking my music. The artists are changing. That idea isn't— I need to put out the music myself. I need to be the record label, the artist, the publisher, everything. And 2 days before, me and Ed had made a demo together. The demo was the beginnings of a song called East Side, okay? And I told him, I said, hey, I think I really want to use East Side for my artist project. I want to become an artist. And I thought Ed was gonna say, dude, what the fuck are you talking about? Just make songs for us. That's it. And he looked at me, he said, I can't believe it's taken you so long to do this. You should totally become an artist. Ed tells me to do it. The song's amazing. I love it. Go to Ed. I say, Ed, I want you on the song. He says no. He said, I'm putting out my own music for the next year. Can't have— can't be on the song. And I said, okay, one down. I go to Justin Bieber next. I say, you gotta be on this song. No response. Okay. Then I say, all right. No one wants to record it. Then I say, wait, I think this song should be a duet.

Okay?

And I'm at my house one day and I'm recording Halsey. And I said, I got this song that I did with Ed and I want it. I'm making my own artist thing. And she was like, you're making an artist project? And I thought she was like, I thought it was like going to be Like, what are you doing? She was like, that's awesome. Of course I'll do it. So within like 20 minutes, she does her verse on the song. So now I have one artist on the song. I somehow get put in touch with Khalid at the time, and this is like he was really top of the charts at this point. And I said, I have this song. I want you to be on it. And he says, let's do it. So he records the song. Okay. Then we get to the point where the song's about to come out, and I send Khalid the song back, and he said, I hate my vocals. I have to redo it or the song can't come out. And I said, we got one more day. The song has to be sent to master. With all odds stacked up against us, We get that done. Okay, so song is recorded. It's finished. I say we're home free. Everything's good. All the powers that be, all the label owners, the managers—it gets all fucked up. Song's not coming out anymore. Okay, song's not coming out. We wait more months. Now we're ten months after. You know, things were going to happen. So many start and stops. And I finally get to the point where I'm about to give up and I have a call. Someone in the deal is not budging and it's either this way or the highway. And it was something that was unworkable. And I remember everyone was like, well, we did it. We gave it our best shot. I said, I'm going to call one more time. And I smoothed the deal out. Immediately called on my people. Everyone did it. We finally get the song out. Okay, song comes out and I'm like, let's go. And I was like, and doesn't really do anything. Like, it's like going, but it's like, and I'm like, okay. And then starts picking up a little bit.

Okay.

Then a little more, then a little more. And it was the longest climb to number 1 in radio history, the longest it's ever taken for a song to get from the bottom to the top. Now I have my first hit song as an artist. Now, that long story I took there, that was just one story in the process of making an album. And to you, you saw this song come out, be incredibly successful. You definitely didn't realize all the conversations I had staying up trying to get this song to happen. You definitely didn't— I had so much self-doubt. I was questioning it all the time. I was questioning every second of the way. And then I got there and we did it. And I could have given up and I could have hit the snooze button and I could have knocked and I could have looked when failure was written all over that board that I threw around.

But—

I just got up and I kept doing it. And I don't know why I kept doing it. I kept putting my foot in front of the other, even if I didn't know why I was doing it. And then we got there, and we did it, and we did it. And a thing that was just a little dream backstage at a show became the rest of my life.

I love the story so much. And one of the reasons why is because As you go along the trajectory of what sounded like almost a 2-year-long project.

Almost, yeah.

And the various points, there was infinite, infinite moments where you could have just been like, fuck this.

Yeah.

It is done. Okay, I got the no. I'm exhausted. I'm not doing this anymore. And in those infinite moments, all it takes is one person to still believe, and that person is just you. And it's one of the things that you've kind of been saying over and over, that if you wake up every day and say, I'm just going to move this song forward 3 inches today, and then I'm going to do it again tomorrow, and I'm going to do it again tomorrow.

Mm-hmm.

until I get enough momentum to make the phone call.

Yeah.

And inch it forward 3 more inches. And what's amazing about that story, because I really want you to sit with this as you think about where you are in your life, is how many days you wake up and you're the no, and you are coming up with the reasons why you can't inch it forward or find another way. And, you know, you talked, Benny, about the what-ifs, right? And you sit in the what-if and what-if, what-if. And we don't, ever ask ourselves, what if it all works out? What if I make one more phone call and I can get the deal done? What if I ask one more time? What if it works?

My mom, you know, she never chased her dreams. Never. My mom worked as a person who set up the jewelry at like JCPenney's and Macy's. Her— she eventually landed in a job that she did like, where she worked at an assisted living home and she was giving back to people. I asked her, I said, why didn't you chase your dreams? When she was younger, she was a model, and then she painted, and she had all these dreams. And she said, I wasn't taught to believe. When you went to school, you went to school, they told you you're supposed to do this, and you're supposed to get a job, and you're supposed to not make a mess. You're not supposed to make— the world tries to tell you not to make a mess. They try to be really clean and you got to do as you're told and you got to get your job and then you got to go here and then you got to do this. And then for 30 years you work and then maybe you'll get Social Security. And there's like, they're telling you all these things and we're just supposed to sit back and take them at face value and just listen. The reason why I want this book to happen is because I know there's so many people out there that have ideas, thoughts, concepts, musical ability, acting talent that can make the world a better place and inspire us and change us.

Thank you for saying that, 'cause I do get both sad and frustrated because I see that inside every single person person, there is this untapped potential. There is a story to tell. There is a song to sing. There is a book to write. There is a difference to make. There's something to build, to create, to connect with. And I think it is so sad. And I say sad because I can see now, looking backwards, Benny, the decades, the decades. where I was the one who was in my way. I was the loudest no.

Yeah.

I was the one saying, it's not gonna work. I was the one saying, not you, not now. Who do you think you are? What are people gonna think? That I was the one that blocked it. And I think for a lot of us, that is the biggest barrier to starting. And you'll never believe if you don't actually see yourself start taking that first step. You know, one of the things you talk about, Benny, is that life is like a stool and that there are 3 legs to really focus on. And I think this is really helpful, particularly if everything feels overwhelming.

Okay. I have a stool here. Yep. So your life is this stool. Okay, so this is success. This is, this is the end goal. Okay? Now you have 3 legs. A stool is made of 3 legs. Okay? Now, Mel, when you're, when you're thinking of what 3 things are that make up your life, what, what, what are they? You know, most people say, you know, like career. Yep. Relationships, self-care, health, whatever it is, whatever your 3 are. What are your 3? Just, just you. It doesn't have to be the same as mine.

Oh, well, it would definitely be like relationships and family. Okay.

Family is right here.

For sure.

Okay.

The other one would be like, it would be really about purpose and impact. So it's kind of career.

Okay. Purpose.

Yeah. And impact.

Purpose and impact.

Yeah. And then the third would be health. Because if you don't have your health, you don't have a life.

Okay. Health. I don't have 3 arms, but I'm grabbing all these stool, these legs. Okay. So let's say, let's say you're crushing it. You own a company, you're— you have the fucking Ferrari, the Lamborghini, everything's good, but your kids hate you. Okay, so that's your— that's, that's, that's the relationship and family. Okay, your kids hate you. Okay, so now I'm gonna let go. Okay, what just happened?

Uh, your life sucks.

Your life sucks. Okay, now we're We're pulling this back up in life. When you can get that combination of the 3, then nothing's stopping you. Nothing. Nothing in the world. And I recently got that. I recently got that in probably the last 5 years. And I feel more stable than I ever have in my entire life. And if all those Those little pegs, those legs are strong, then you're rocking. If they aren't, you got to realign. Sometimes you got to step back. You got to get up and do my method. You got to do whatever it is to realize that it's not working.

Yeah. Everything can wait until I get this back in balance. Exactly. That's your method. I want to read to you from your bestselling book. This is page 108, and it's really about timing.

Okay.

And the importance of timing. Everything in life is about timing. My relationship with Selena is another great example. We first met about 15 years ago. We worked together 5 or 6 years after that, and then again 5 or 6 years after that, and had a casual friendship during the time. Then we started dating a few years after that. Now she's my wife. We always talk about how it never would've worked out if it were at a different time or place in our lives. Because neither one of us would've likely been ready. So what had to change about your life in order for the timing to be right and for you to be ready to have the relationship that you have now?

I had to figure out that work-life balance. I was filling up the career side a little too much. I had to get healthy, and that means physically, mentally, all of that. I had to understand myself.

Hmm.

I think I also had to learn— I always wanted to do so much. fulfill my destiny. I had so many things I wanted to do, and I realized over time it doesn't have to happen overnight. It can honestly— sometimes waiting and, and, and getting there slowly makes it even better when you get to the finish line.

So was it even on your radar? I mean, you guys knew each other for 15 years, which I find to be really interesting.

No, she asked me out. There's imposter syndrome. I didn't even think of it. It wasn't even on my radar as if it would be a date. And then when we were on our first date, she's like, well, I wouldn't have worn this if it was our first. And I said, date? Oh, wow. Okay. And then I'm thinking about it like that. No, it wasn't even— I always think those are the best type of relationships when you're friends with someone. and you know them. And then once you are there, it's like there's not too much to learn. Like, it's always so scary starting a new relationship. It's like being with a new therapist. It's like, oh, I gotta tell— I was already with someone. They know my backstory. What? I gotta catch you up to 38 years of speed? So it's like, so she already knew. She knew me. Obviously didn't know me deeply like that, but— She knew me and there was, there was a rapport there. So it made it easy and comfortable.

How did you get clear about what you actually wanted? Because you said something that struck me about, like, really understanding how you wanted to love and be loved.

I wrote a list with my therapist.

You did?

Yep. My therapist, we made a list.

Of what?

I'll tell you exactly what we did. We— I said, I really wanna find the right partner and I'm doing something wrong. I'm doing— I can't find the person that I'm gonna spend the rest of my life with and I want to do that. And we came up with some guidelines and a list. Okay, first he said, I want you to write down what you think your ideal partner should be. Okay?

Mm-hmm.

The first thing on my list was, age appropriate. Okay, so I wanted to date someone that was the— I, I, you have to be very honest with yourself.

And I said, I have never had that on a list.

I mean, that is like— so that was, that was age appropriate.

Okay.

Okay. Then the second thing on my list was, um, someone who's nice, nice, caring, compassionate, like someone who's a nice person. Okay. The third thing on my list was I wanted someone who woke up generally happy, who wasn't so sad when they woke up. And if they were sad, they were doing something about it. Like they were going to therapy, they were taking medicine if they need to, they were doing yoga. They were actively trying to— because sometimes people just wake up sad. That's just part of how it is. And I had a list of things, and these were like broad things. It wasn't like, I want their left toe longer than their right. These were like broad things. And if it didn't meet those first 5 or 6 things, couldn't even pursue. Don't waste your time. Don't waste your time.

Wow. I want to just broaden this to the person listening, because as I hear this story, I can't help but think, what would be on my list?

Yeah.

And as we think about taking on this exercise, because it's true, you can get so focused on the outside or the chemistry or whatever it may be that you don't stop and think on an average Tuesday, yeah, who is it that I wanna be with and what does it feel like and what's important to me? And I'm not sure a lot of us have ever stopped to write that down. So if you had to give, if you had to give some counsel to the person who's listening about like guidelines about the list, what would you say?

Okay, if you're gonna do this, Cut off all the people right now that you know aren't on that list. Even if it's easy, it's something like, for your sake and for their sake, cut off all the people that don't make the list you're about to make. I think you need to find someone that's both nice to themselves and nice to you.

Hmm.

Okay? I think you need to find someone that you can imagine spending the rest of your life with. Like, you have to— you're— You're essentially trying to find your best friend. Okay? Does that person make you laugh? Can you be fine staying home and not going out with any of your friends and not having FOMO because you're with the best person in the world? 'Cause I know I can. I know I could let everything else in the world happen and it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. I'm with my best friend.

One of the things I love about this recommendation of making a list is that you mentioned that a lot of people struggle with feeling worthy. And so you end up settling for somebody who doesn't treat you that well. The simple act of making this list and allowing yourself to consider what you actually want is an act of saying, I'm worthy of it. So, Benny, if the person who's listening—

Yes.

Takes one action after listening to everything that you have taught us and shared with us today, what do you think the most important thing to do after listening to this is?

I want you to do a few things. I don't want you to do one thing. I want you to, right after this is done, okay? I want you to either grab a pen, paper, your cell phone, however you wanna write things down, your laptop, And I want you to make a list of something you want to do. Maybe it's one thing, maybe it's 10 things, maybe it's 20. I want you to make a list of some things you want to do, and I want you to pinpoint just one you're going to focus on right now. Okay? If one comes to mind, 20 comes to mind, find that one you're going to focus on. Okay? Then I want you to make another list of the first things you have to put together To get that moving in the right direction. Then I want you today, not tomorrow, today, go like this and move it even a centimeter forward. Okay? And then just keep that same momentum. And some days you might let it sit still or it might go back 1 inch. But I want you to keep doing that. And I promise you, I promise you, you will be in a better place than you were before you started this podcast.

What if it all works out?

Not what if, it will all work out.

That's true. Especially if you don't quit. I think that's actually the secret. It works out if you don't quit. You can't fail if you don't quit.

You can't. You can't. You might still be working at the same thing for a while. But you're not going to fail.

That's right. Benny Blanco, what are your parting words?

Try to do what you want that's going to, like, fulfill you. And don't just go along with what you were taught to by, like, some archaic thing in a textbook. And yeah, be yourself because everyone else is taken.

Benny Blanco.

5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

Oh my God. There he goes, everybody. Benny Blanco. And before I sign off, I want to make sure I acknowledge you. Thank you for hitting play. Thank you for listening all the way to the end. I am so excited that you got to experience this. And thank you in advance for sharing a little Benny Blanco wisdom with everybody in your life. And one more thing, in case no one else tells you this today, as your friend, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life. There is no doubt in my mind that there was something very specific that Benny shared today that was exactly what you needed to hear right now. So go do it. Alrighty. I'll see you in the very next episode. I'm gonna welcome you in the moment you hit play.