Full Throttle Leaders Podcast- Chuck McBride (Cutwater)

Hi, Michael Falato here again from Full Throttle Falato Leads and Go-To-Market Full Throttle. Um, this is the Full Throttle Leaders Podcast. We have a special guest today from Cutwater, the CEO of Cutwater, Chuck McBride. How you doing, Chuck?

Very good, Michael. How are you?

Good, good. So we had a great little discussion before the podcast started, but I would love to tell the audience a little bit about your background and how you got started in the agency world and where you kind of worked, and then how you got stuck, uh, started at Cutwater.

Yeah, um, you know, I, I got out of college and the last thing I wanted to do was have a job, so I spent my time working construction and surfing in San Diego. As I started to look around, I got a job at a photo shop where I was doing some of the film processing, and the most interesting stuff was being done by the agencies, the photographers that were working for agencies.

Uh-huh.

So as I started talking to them about how I might be able to get in the business, they gave me some names, and it ended up because I had a photo background, I got into print production at BBDO West in Los Angeles, California. And so I started off there as an assistant to the production department, worked my way up as a producer doing a lot of print production, you know, going to the press runs and doing all the, the, you know, the, the separations and whatnot for magazines and newspapers. And I eventually started looking at the ads I was working on and saying, why, I could write a better ad than that. So I started taking the, the old ads and creating my own ads. out of it. And, uh, eventually, you know, some of the creative directors there looked over my shoulder long enough to say, what are you doing? You know, oh, that's not bad, you should keep doing that. And, and, um, I was really fortunate enough they sent me to a place called Carson and Roberts, which is an invite-only ad school in Los Angeles there. And that's kind of when the bug bit and I decided I was going to become a copywriter.

My—

finally got my first break down in San Diego at place called the Franklin Associates, working on San Diego Zoo, um, Ektelon Rackets, stuff like that for Vitro Robertson, a very famous San Diego duo that, uh, to this day are, are, are some of the finest people I've ever worked with. After that, I was able to get, um, back up to Los Angeles working for Tom Cordner at Lexus. He was at Team One doing the Lexus motor car, so I helped launch Lexus Motor Cars and stayed there for a good 4 years almost. But the problem when you're doing cars is it takes like a year just to get one idea out of the shop, you know. I mean, you spend all this time getting one thing done. It just wasn't enough. I wanted to be doing more work.

Mm-hmm.

Um, Dan Wieden had seen one of my car ads and asked me if he, you know, asked me if I'd like to help him out on, on Subaru. I don't know if— no, we all know that Where Suckers Moon book came out. There's a storied legend about, uh, about Subaru and Wieden. Anyway, I showed up right, right about the time that they lost the account. And, um, so I did very little there, but I did help win, uh, SportsCenter is the, is the first when we landed that job. So I don't know if you know, but SportsCenter is one of those legendary accounts that that Wieden had for, for years. And, uh, and I was really glad to be a part of the beginning of that. But, uh, it was— it wasn't enough to keep the agency open. They ended up having to close. And I ended up coming up from LA. I was on a shoot down there, came up to LA and met with Jeff Goodby. He was doing something that he felt was really kind of powerful. Uh, they were doing a commodity is how he put it. It's like, we're going to advertise a commodity.

It's a—

it's like a one-in-a-lifetime opportunity. I said, well, what is it? He says, it's milk. And so I was able to come up to Goodby Silverstein and be a part of the original group on the Got Milk account.

Mm-hmm.

I did that for about 5 years and ended up working on Isuzu, Specialized bikes. You know, I touched pretty much everything at Goodby for a long time. And then it came that time where, you know, the folks at Foot Cone came around and they asked me if I'd help them with Levi's after Mike Kelker, a legendary art director on Levi's, unfortunately passed away. So I took his place and I ran Levi's for a few years out of Foot Cone. We did some famous, wonderful work. I was really excited about that. But, you know, again, it was an agency that had not a whole lot of other doors to open while you were inside of it. And so— I was sitting in a production studio and I got a phone call, and again it was from Wieden and Kennedy saying, okay, we fucked up in Philly, we want you to come to Portland and help us out. So I said, all right, I'll go there. Let's go, let's give that a try. I've always wanted to go try that. So I went up to, to join the crew up in Portland. Um, I ended up running the, the Nike business. Um, the unfortunate part is the day I started, they had lost half the account to, to Goodby Silverstein.

Of all, like, it's such— so it's such a waste.

So, so the day I start, and, you know, and then Dan comes to me and says, you know, you know, should I be worried? And I said, yeah, you should be worried. These guys are good. So, you know, but, uh, but at, uh, you know, after 2 and a half years, and, and one of the, one of the better things I've accomplished in my career, we were able to win it all back. So, you know, it took us a little while, but we won all the business back. Uh, you know, it came back to the, to the right to the right agency in terms of, you know, the legendary relationship that Phil Knight and Dan Wein had. You know, unfortunately, it took a little toll on me, and I needed to go fix my marriage back in San Francisco. So I took off. And at that time, it was funny, I met Bob Cooperman over in Cannes, in France. And Bob said, hey, you just helped Dan. Lee needs you now. Lee could really use your help. And so at that point in time, I took a job at Chiat/Day San Francisco. I came down. He had Levi's at the time, and we ended up doing some really wonderful work here. So that's the second time I worked on Levi's and ended up doing some stunning creative for that. I stayed there now. I stayed at Chiat for another 10 years after that. That was kind of my home. And I made it so I grew to be the North American creative director. That included both Vancouver and Toronto out of Canada, and then the 3 agencies we had in the United States, Los Angeles, New York, and San Francisco. So really just, you know, it's almost an HR position for the most part. You would kind of come into the office and the best thing you could do is encourage them that, you know, to do their best and, you know, you have their back, but also to hire the right people to get into those agencies and start to take care of the work. So I did that for a long time, but more importantly, I formed a great partnership with Lee and, and, uh, and Lee Clow at the agency. And he and I became, you know, partners on, on Adidas. And so when we ended up working on Adidas, we— he and I kind of, you know, kind of chose a, a, an interesting relationship because, you know, he's an art director and I'm a writer, so it worked out really well that way.

What would you say one of your, uh, projects that you hatched yourself was like one of the crown jewels of what you did in your life?

Geez, it's a tough one, man, because as I said, winning, winning Nike back after it's— after it, you know, walked away from the agency was a big fucking deal. That was a heavy lift. That was a really heavy lift. And I don't know, you know, this was an agency that was famous for this account and half the business went away. And so winning that back was It's right up there. It's right up there with number one.

Yeah.

You know, when it comes down to the work, Nike was one of the most dynamic clients to work with. They demand excellence. And with that, there's a responsibility to do work that's excellent. And so you have to make stuff better. Who came up with Just Do It? That was Dan. That was Dan back in the '80s. Yeah, yeah. But we, we revived it while I was there, and then we did some award-winning work by just reviving it because it, it had basically been dormant for almost 15 years by the time I got there. And one of the suggestions that I made in an all-hands meeting was, why don't we relaunch Just Do It? The last time You know, an 18-year-old saw a Just Do It ad. You know, it was a guy with a, you know, a prosthetic leg, you know, running down a racetrack. And I said, I don't think that's the last way you want people to remember the campaign. And so we ended up revising it and did a bunch, again, a bunch of beautiful award-winning work to the highest of caliber. We got— we came into Cannes actually for 2 years in a row and we're We're client— we were client of the year 2 years in a row with the launch of Just Do It. And then I was—

Was that pre-Jordan or post-Jordan or during Jordan?

It was during Jordan. Yeah, I worked on Jordan as well. We were— it was during Jordan. It was right when he was retiring, to be fair. One of the last ads I did for Jordan was a goodbye ad where we took his—

I did it.

No, I should have.

But it was—

we ended up taking his life backwards. Like, it started off with, you know, him holding up 6. And then we just go all the way back to— we— his mom gave us a photograph of Michael when he was like 12 years old in a football uniform, just standing there as this little kid holding his helmet. And that's the shot we end on. It just says, Just Do It. And so it was actually part of our relaunch of Just Do It, ironically.

Is that ever— was that ever like, I did it? Was that ever part of it?

No, no. I, I, I think that one of the things you don't want to fuck with is that fucking line, man. You gotta work with it. Don't change it.

Yeah, like, get outta here, Falato.

Exactly.

That's the stupidest idea ever said.

The lawyers would say that too, I think.

Jordan would be the only guy that can do it.

Well, you know, eventually Jordan's brand became, you know, much more about his brand.

Very true, yeah.

Yeah, it became much more about, you know, it was gonna move from just being basketball and shoe driven to clothing and everything else, you know.

What point did he—

They're actually doing golf right now. They're doing a Jordan golf initiative right now. So, you know, that was one of the better business decisions that, you know, Phil made, I think, was hiring that guy because look at the line extensions it's created. It's pretty powerful.

Yeah.

But the, you know, the highlight, gosh, you know, there's so many. It's like, I don't think your career is ever defined by one sort of moment. It's the collection of moments.

How about something in the last year or two that said, oh God, that was a bad idea? I don't want anybody to fall in that trap, or something that you did last year in strategy, tactics, or AI that was the best idea you want to pass on?

Gosh, I would say walking into meetings thinking that AI is going to solve the problem is one of those bad ideas because it's not only apparent, but to me, it shows Kind of a lack of authenticity if someone's just spitting out information now in a meeting that they, you know, kind of used AI to develop. It's— I think it's much more comfortable to say, hey, I ran this through OpenAI a few times and look what I got, as opposed to saying, this is what you should do, this is what you should do, this is what you should do. So where, where I've seen it kind of bite people in the ass is transparency.

Yeah, upfront, you know.

Yeah, exactly. It's really, it's one of those things where, you know, we're all kind of wondering, you know, where things come from. And I think it's important to be transparent about that. Now, to be fair, in the future, we're all going to be using it. I collaborate with AI all the time, but I generally use it not as an output. Generally, what I try to do is I try to formulate a human insight that I think is interesting. And then you use— then, then, then I, you know, I, I— AI is like one of my better, you know, uh, tennis partners because, you know, you just keep on hitting refresh and you get more.

And it—

and I've always felt like when you're as a writer, one of the cool things you had as an art— with an art director partner is sitting in a room going, what about, what about, what about?

Yeah.

That, that's where— that's kind of the benefit right now for me with AI. I can take numerous ways I would like to solve a problem and have it play with it a little bit. And if it spits back something that I think is better than where we were, oh, that's a build. That's a build.

A lot of it's the prompts, like write this or, or put this theme of that. Like I've said, like when I was doing some emails to some IT guys, I'm like, what if I came with them some sort of Star Wars theme messaging that would make them laugh instead of just You know, sending a marketing message.

Yeah. You know, listen, and that's the magic. But, you know, I think that the, the, the kind of like come in and, and not be transparent. And, and again, this is almost more theoretical, but there have been meetings that I've been in, it was clear that the creative came from AI. It's been clear that the, you know, the strategy came from AI, you know. And so you're kind of wondering, um, number one, why am I paying you?

And tell us about—

do I need you for, for this?

Tell us about Cutwire. Cutwire. Water and like what you guys focus in on most. How big is your company? Where are you based out of? Like, give us a little background for people that don't know Cutwater.

Yeah, it's cool. Uh, we've been, we've been around since 2007. Um, we went independent in 2011, and so, uh, we were part of Omnicom prior to that, and then we took ourselves independent in 2011, and, uh, Ended up kind of bootstrapping it a little bit because when you leave Omnicom, you know, it's a delicate situation because, you know, you don't want to piss them off so that they sic lawyers on you and stuff like that. And so we had to kind of tiptoe around that and got some clear space and ended up building up, you know, a fairly substantial, you know, real Adidas Not, excuse me, Levi's hired us again. So that was the 3rd time I've worked on Levi's. I was able to work with a lot of my ex-Nike clients. They hired us up to do Easton Sports and, you know, some of the subsidiaries that they had started working on in the sports industry. Once all those guys got out, they kept on wanting to work. So they found these other cool little sports brands to go work for. And I was really fortunate to to have been called to come in and help them on stuff like that— bikes and baseball bats, stuff like that. It was a lot of fun. The, um, the— we ended up picking up Brawny, which is kind of interesting, my first foray into, um, packaged goods and what have you. So I've just learned a lot. And, you know, when you go independent, it's, it's a whole different story. You're not, you're not sitting around with, you know, a, a global budget to, to go do things. It's not It's not your network isn't important. It's really your, your, your authenticity and what you can deliver personally for those, for those brands you're working for. So we got into some good spaces with, you know, financial institutions. We've got— we had great brand work that we've done for pet food and what have you. So, I mean, we are one of the scrappiest agencies in America because I think that we have the experience of a, you know, Wieden+Kennedy BBDO, but we're also incredibly nimble so that, you know, we're, you know, we're coming to conclusions a little quicker. We're also keeping our meetings small so the decision makers are the ones in the room. But I now have an office in New York as well as San Francisco. So we're bicoastal at this point. Would love to go international at some point with the proper client. And, um, you know, I think that, uh, um, you know, I'm about 50 people, right? Yeah. And, and, yeah, and, you know, the real, you know, the real, the real legacy of Cutwater is the, the pride of an independent shop in a world of, of holding companies, giving you the expertise that came from those companies in a in a property that's much more nimble and much more financially affordable because we're not charging you the same kind of overhead.

And what's your ideal customer profile at Cutwater?

I'm thinking the way I think about ideal customers is I've worked with more imperfect brands than perfect brands. And it was kind of twisting the imperfect brand into a better brand. It was a little bit more, I think, rewarding.

Yeah.

You know, working on a brand that already had everything going for it, you know, there wasn't a lot to do other than just maybe push it faster. Whereas, you know, when you're coming in on a brand that really had nothing and you built something out of scrap, I think that was important. Ray-Ban was a great example. You know, they had come in and They hadn't done advertising in years, and we came up with the Never Hide campaign based on some great insights. And, you know, we ended up blowing them up, and they became the number one, you know, sunglasses in the world.

Yeah.

So, you know, that was a big difference maker. And so for me, I like clients with ambition. I want companies that— I want great companies that want to become great brands. I think that's what I think we're really good at. You know, a great company, and if they don't have a great brand, that's the opportunity.

And who should they reach out to at Cutwater after watching this podcast?

Oh, that'd be Sarah Navarro. Yeah.

What's the best way?

sarah.navarro@cutwatersf.com.

Okay. And she's kind of the director of new business?

She's our director of new business, actually. One of our longest, long-term employees. She's, she boomeranged. She worked at a couple places in between, but she came back.

And if someone wants to get a hold of you, what's the best way to get a hold of you?

Um, probably through LinkedIn would be the best way.

Okay, well, I appreciate your time, Chuck. Um, we'll definitely work together on future projects, and I appreciate you, uh, making time for this podcast.

You bet.