Mindfulness in Motion: Mastering Leadership with George Mumford

So it was like not just performing, but I'm talking about pure performance, not elite performance is one thing, but pure performance is when you're doing the thing for the activity in and of itself for no reason other than being in the moment and expressing yourself honestly and love and. And being who you are because you're unique. There's no one like you.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Mick Unplugged. And today we're talking to a gentleman who didn't know but two years ago literally changed my life and my approach to leadership and the mental preparedness. He's the mindfulness coach behind the legends like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. He's a master of unlocking peak potential and the author transforming the way we think about focus and and flow. Please join me in welcoming the wise, the transformative, the legendary, the guy I call the goat, Mr. George Mumford. Mr. Mumford, how you doing today, sir?

Thanks. Thanks, Mick. I appreciate you. It's my honor to be here and it's. I can't tell you how delighted I am to hear that the book have value for you. And more importantly, that the book is helping you unlock. You unlock. We need you to be unlocked. We need everybody to be unlocked.

Unlocked has changed my life. It's literally a book that I reference at least three to four times a week. I pull out quotes on a weekly basis. I talk to my team internally, and we have once a month. George, I got to give you credit. We have unlocked sessions where we talk through things as a group and as a team, because as you know, what one person is struggling with or going through is probably something else that someone else is going through. They were just afraid to talk about it out loud. And so we really have unlocked sessions and we have a lot of mental clarity on a monthly basis. And to that, I owe you, brother.

I like that.

So before we go into unlocked, George, one of the things on the podcast that we really talk about is. Is your because. Right? That thing that's deeper than your why. I like to call it, like your true purpose, your true reasoning. And for a lot of people, that changes over time, and it should change over time. If I were to say today, 2025. George Mumford, what's your because today?

To unlock the vice spark in each and every human being. So I'll give you the whole spiel. As a child, I developed several years back and I forget when I did it, but it's a lifelong thing to unlock the divine spark in each and every human being. The values that are at the heart of who I am. I love, curiosity, truth, wisdom, integrity, selfless service, compassion, courage. That for which I could be counted on for is to be loving with a warrior spirit, with a serving and compassionate heart, pursuing excellence and wisdom with grace and ease. That's. That's what I'm up to, and that's that those are my guiding ideas, my guiding principles.

Man. And early on, I know. So when I say early on, I'm gonna say college years. You went to the University of Massachusetts.

Yeah.

A lot of people may not know, man. You were the. The roommate of a man that we call Dr. J. Julius Irving.

Yes.

Talk us about those days with you, man. Like.

Yeah, no, it was, it was. You know, I talk about it in my other book, the Mind for Athlete Secret to Pure Performance. So just give you an idea. So fast forward. This is. This is 1969, and. And I'm going to University of Massachusetts at Amore. And it was the last orientation weekend. So the weekend just before classes started. So it was. So it was that Labor Day weekend. So it started, I think, Thursday, Wednesday, Thursday, whenever it was. And so I stayed on campus and didn't have to. And so we, we were playing. Me and a couple of my friends were playing pickup basketball. So we went to this outdoor court and this dude was out there playing and he had on street shoes and he was dunking on people. And I was saying, well, who's this homie here? I mean, who? Where? Where? But I knew about him once he told me who it was because my friend of mine said, hey, man, this is guy Julius Irving. You gotta check him out. He's. He's the real deal. And so, and that, and that's, that's how we became friends. And, and then eventually, you know, we were roommates and I was his roommate, you know, while he was. When he was just about to go pro.

Yeah.

So, yeah, so I had that experience. And then my other roommate, Al Skinner actually played. Played with Julius and, and, and, and in New York nets and with 76ers. So he was my other roommate. And of course Patino, Rick Patino was there when I was there, so I knew all those. We all hung together. Patina was from Oyster Bay, so sometimes we used to ride home, you know, with him, me, him and Al. You know, sometimes we, you know, if I was going to hang out with Al on weekends, sometimes we drop Rick off on the way to Long Island.

You know, we're going to have to have a separate story because I know you got some stories all of it. We probably can't tell on this podcast, but wow. To be a fly on the wall. But George Mumford and some of those conversations have to be legendary.

Yeah. So just to show that you're not the only one that feels that way, I don't know when it was several years back, the last time they had the. The NBA All Star game in LA and Julius had a podcast, and so he went. He interviewed me for the podcast. So I. I actually was there right in the middle of it all. And as I'm going in, Isaiah Thomas is saying, wait a minute, you two going in there? I want to come in. You know, you said, well, I get with you later. We just got to do this thing. Because Isaiah was saying, oh, man, I want to hear what these roomies are going to talk about.

Right, right. Yeah, we're gonna set up a separate one for that one. That's gonna be amazing.

Anyway, just to say you're not alone, because people. And, you know, it's funny, if I wasn't in the conversation, I'd be interested in it.

Exactly, Exactly. That's wild, man. So, you know, obviously you've worked with Legendary. I'm gonna say the. The best of the best. And Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant.

How.

I mean, I know the story, but I want the audience to know. How did it come about working with Michael Jordan?

Yes. So people probably know my. My story about, know, getting into recovery, getting injured and in college and, you know, not, not, not playing. Not fulfilling my dream of playing in the NBA or even playing in college. So, you know, I got. So I. I got addicted to pain meds then, then alcohol and drugs and all that. So. Fast forward. So I got clean in 1984. Fast forwarding. I was a functional substance abuser, so I always worked and everything. So I was fortunate enough to be able to continue to work and, and to do. Do things. But when I got clean, and then I started realizing that about me and how I had to go inside and unlock myself. But it was that gift of desperation that allowed me to look at it and start to see, okay, getting connected to my power source, high power, whatever you want to call it, and, and just figuring out, you know, how to unlock myself. And so that's. And it started that way, and I was still working, but then I went back to graduate school. But then I got on this mission, which I think the competitive edge is learning.

Yeah.

And achieving. And when you learn and you achieve, you actually generate this energizing enthusiasm. But what am I learning about it's? Not so much about subjects. It's about me, my mind, body system, and how I, who I am, my body, my heart and soul, and how I can relate to others being in the network of relationships. So that's how it got me there. And when I got into recovery, part of my recovery was if you want to keep it, you got to give it away and if you want to learn it, you got to teach it. And so, so it's when it got me into it. So I, I so just going through it. And then I ended up working at the center for Mindfulness, which used to be the stress reduction relaxation program at UMass Medical center and where I worked there for five years. I was, you know, I had a prison project, director of prison projects. Then we set up an inner city clinic. Yeah. On the other side of the other side of railroad tracks. So some folks that live in the, in the hood, you know, that live on the other side of railroad tracks, we, we had a satellite clinic for them to learn how mindfulness based stress reduction. So in the interim, the founder, John Kabat Zinn and my boss, he was, he used to go to Omega Institute, this, this place in New York. And at the same time Phil was running this program called Beyond Basketball, where it really was, it was a fundraising activity for his teammate, a teammate he had with the Knicks. His name was Eddie Mask. Yeah. So he was doing this. So they had, it was like a fantasy basketball weekend for people when they come and play and everything. And so they were there together and fill in and, and actually John and Phil's wife June at the time were talking about, you know, the team and, and this process that she was learning because she was a, she was a social worker. So she was, she was doing a training and, and they knew Phil because they were always there and, and whatnot. And so Phil was told John that he needed somebody to come in and help the guys deal with the stress of success. So this was 1993. This is after they won their first three, three peat. And so Phil, because Phyllis, like me, he believes in a whole person. It's not like, shut up and dribble. I'm interested in your body, your mind, your heart and your spirit. And you're like one of my, you know, you're, you're, you're my peeps. You're one of my congregation, if you will, that, you know, I'm concerned about your, your well being beyond basketball, just about you being the best person you could be, but making sure that I, I value you as A as a divine spark, you might even say, or a human being or a masterpiece. The wor. And so he brought me in and of course, when I got there, by that time, Michael Jordan, we talked in July, and by the time I got there in October, Michael was gone. And so they were in full blown crisis. And then that's decided. My relationship working with Phil. And so that's how I got into it. That's how it began. I was still working at the medical center, but, you know, at the same time, it was like when you had a medical school, they like papers, they like publicity, they like people knowing that you're going out. And what we're researching and what we're offering is a value to the community.

Yep, yep. And so with Michael and with Kobe, how did you help elite athletes like those to translate mindfulness into performance? Because you are literally a lot of people talk about high achieving, high performance, peak performance, but none of them are George Mumford. I think you were the person that really, number one, brought it to the world's attention. So I'm giving you credit. I know you're not going to say that. I'm going to say it for you.

Yeah.

But there is a thing to get mindfulness into actual performance. And then when you're working with greats like Jordan and Kobe, who from the outside, everyone already thinks that they're there and you can get with them and see that they've got another level that they can get. Like, how do you do that, brother?

Yes. Well, it's interesting because. Because being around greatness all my life, you know, in terms of, you know, all Americans in high school, but, you know, room with Julius and being around him and people don't realize he was like Michael Jordan before Michael Jordan, because even as college students, he couldn't go anywhere. He would draw a crowd and. Right. You know, they line up for the game, you know, hours before and whatnot. So it was me just trying to connect with them. I knew I wanted to serve and I knew I wanted to share what I had. And so I talked to them about being spiritual warriors. I talked to them about being in the zone, being in flow and explaining to them, like with. With MJ especially, it's like helping him understand why he was able to do what he was doing. And also I didn't have to ask him about the next level because him and Kobe and guys like that and Dr. J, you can name, you know, LeBron, you know, all of the elites, you know, going back to my day when, when I watch The Celtics, you know, the Boston Celtics. And you know, I had favorites. Jerry West, Elder Baila, you know, I can go on and on, Oscar Robinson. But there was something about the idea I noticed when I used to watch these cats play. And like, for the first three quarters, you know, they'll be shooting shots and they'll be doing things. But when the fourth quarter came, let's see, I was there, I was in the middle, I was watching this stuff. One of my first basketball games I watched was Elton Bella scoring 61 points against the Celtics in the playoffs and the championship. So I saw that there was a day hit another level. When it came crunch time, they hit another level. And of course I, you know, I, I studied this stuff and I was very interested in flowing his own, so I studied it. So if you want to learn something, you teach it and you, you investigate, you explore it. And of course I, I, I live in flow a lot now, but when I was an athlete, I had flow experiences. And I remember when it took my game to like a whole other level, all of a sudden it's like, whoa, man, this is like, this is different. This is different. And so, yeah, so it was just a matter of me knowing I wanted to serve and, and just, just, you know, going there and meeting people where they are and then figuring it out. There's something about when you see elite performers, they're unlocked. And one way to get unlocked is, is the only way to get unlocked, really, is to say yes to whatever's coming up and then, then figuring out what you need to learn, you know, what the universe is teaching you. Because if you don't learn the lesson, you keep getting it, so you, so you learn. So it's about this, this, this joy, discovery, but also this idea of wanting to help people alleviate or eliminate suffering altogether. So it was like not just performing, but I'm talking about pure performance. Not elite performance is one thing, but pure performance is when you're doing the thing for the activity in and of itself for no reason other than being in the moment and expressing yourself honestly and love and, and being who you are because you're unique. There's no one like you. And so, and Bruce Lee used to talk about it in terms of martial arts is to honestly express yourself. And so, so these folks are unlocked. But there has to be this hunger, this, this desire to want to go to the next level. Because what people don't understand is when you go to the next level, it's not like, oh, everything is peaches and cream when you Go to the next level. No, they go. In that process, you have to go through what Soren Carrie got talked about. He said, one side of the coin is freedom, potential. The other side is uncertainty and anxiety. So you have to tolerate discomfort. Anxiety. It comes with it. And so everybody will say, you know, I have clients. Oh, I want to be like Mike. I'm gonna be like Kobe. I said, okay, here's what's required. Well, I ain't signed up for that, you know, because it hurts. You know, you have to. You have to get comfortable being uncomfortable.

Yeah.

And if you're not uncomfortable, you're not growing. You see what I'm saying? So with those guys, I didn't have to do anything but just show up. Of course, I had a lot of street cred being Dr. James roommate. Okay, but just. But also my authenticity and talking about. But this cat used to be a dope thing, man. He's like. He was in the shooting gallery. Now he's behind the bench of his NBA championship team during the championship run. How the hell does that happen? Yeah, how do you get from there to there? You see what I'm saying? So just. Just. So a lot of it is because I have not made one free throw. 1. One turnover or one cyst. My job is just to help people be who they are. So I just chip away and, you know, like Michelangelo, you know, when I asked him how does he create these works of art, and he said, all I do is chip away to get to the masterpiece that's already there. So that's what I do. I. I ain't fixing anybody. I'm just helping people unlock. Helping people understand, hey, you know, what you need to succeed is inside is an inside job. And if you go in there and you access it and you express it and share it with the rest of us, that's the bomb, that now we're into something. And so that's. That's what I do. And some people, they get it, and they're looking for that itch. They're not waiting for something. They're proactive. They're saying, okay, I'm doing this, but I got to get better. And so, case in point, when Kobe. After Kobe won the championship, maybe it was. It might have been 2009. I don't know what year it was. 2009, during the off season. He's down in Houston working on his post game with Elijah. 1.

Yep.

Now he just won a championship, but that was the thing. Magic the same way. Okay. I know Bird is working hard. I gotta work hard, Dr. J. I ruined him, man. He's always working on his craft. And so you see what I'm saying, But it's not work. So you couldn't tell the difference between practice and the real game, because every time they get on the court, they were. Their job was to get better. And this is what I tell my clients. I tell people, you don't have to get a whole lot better. Just you can get a little bit better. 1% each day. Each day. Each day you want to be able to finish practice or the game and say, I got better today. Yep, I made progress today. And. And so these guys already knew that all I was doing is just helping them say, okay, here's what you can do. And they just took what I got and just ran with it.

That is.

And I used to say to people all the time, I'm not disrespecting anybody, but I said, MJ was kind of dude that, you know, this killer instinct. And people talk about it, you know, you have magic bird and all I'm talking about, even with the dream Team, dude just has this, you know, this energizing enthusiasm or energy. His energy is off the charts. Yeah, his focus is off the chart. But that's because he was always challenging himself, always looking for something. And so I should say MJ was like, you know, he had to kill an instinct. And I said, well, Kobe's the closest thing to him from my experience, you know, working with them up close and personal. And then when Kobe got to the point where he heard his hand, I talked about this in his book, his finger. And he didn't miss a B. He changed his shot. Still shot a high percentage. And that's what it was. He just saw it as a challenge and just moved on and said, okay, I'm gonna change. You know, how much it takes to do something like that or working on a three point shot in the summertime, making 1300 made threes a day. See, he's doing stuff, you know, that mama mentality, you know, that's, you know, you know, as a secret. But, you know, you know, he could be talking about me.

Right, right.

You know, and that's where, you know, that's it. Because I got the same kind of. That's why I think we. But it's quiet. I got a quiet passion. I'm kind of. I'm like one of those silent assassins, you know, you don't even know, you know, until you say, oh, no, man. Dude just got got me and I had it. But he's just doing his thing. And I'm not saying it like it's me or whatever. What I'm really saying is we all have that.

Yep.

They don't have anything we don't have. They just have a will and an intention to just be who they are and be unlocked. And so if we all unlock, we. We. We'd get that kind of. We'd have that kind of satisfaction with our performance, you know, pure performance, where we're just in the moment. You're just performing. You're not doing it. You're doing it for no reason. You're doing it for the love of it itself. Now, there's certain levels of that, but it's like when you see somebody performing like that, it's contagious and it's amazing.

Absolutely.

And that's what we love about sports, because we have this ability to go beyond what we think is possible, and every minute, every second, every. Every action, wholeheartedly.

And that translates into the real world, the business world, your personal life. And so for me, Unlocked, and I'm gonna, again, I'm gonna do a shameless plug for unlocked right here. So unlocked with the subtitle of embrace your greatness, find your flow, and discover success. Like, I promise you.

I promise.

I don't care where you're at in life. I don't care where you're at in business. This book is for you. So, George, what I want to do, I want to highlight a few of my favorite quotes because I now get to talk to the source. It's rare that you can have your favorites and then talk to the source. I'm going to eat all of this up. Right?

So.

So chapter three, one of my quotes. Chapter three is mental discipline training. Right? So, see, I remember everything. This is how much I read this book.

Okay.

You say that we need to create space between any given stimulus we may receive in our response to it. And so me and my team, when we broke that down, we said, you know what? George is explaining what we call emotional intelligence, but in a very articulate way, create space between any given stimulants in your response to it.

Right?

Like that simple. Like, to me, that's keeping the simple things simple. I. I just love how you just. Again, it's a quote from the book, but it articulated and resonated with me because I'm like, that's emotional intelligence right there.

Yeah. So, you know, let's. Let's just talk about emotional intelligence because, you know, I'm. Well, you. You probably noticed, but your Readers don't know this. I mean, your listeners don't know this. I'm, I'm, I'm a recovering perfectionist. Okay? Okay. So when I learn something, whatever, I do them all in. Right?

Right.

And so I'm coming up on 41 years of sobriety in July, July 30th. And over that time I've read over a book a week. Okay, so emotional intelligence. This is what we call eq. This has to do with the heart. Social, emotional, you know, in our relationships and whatnot. So there's four components to that. And you know, traditionally we talk about it as self awareness, self regulation, social awareness, and relationship development. They say relationship management. I don't like the word management because you manage things, you lead people. So it's more. According to Stephen Covey anyway, and he sold 50 million copies of it, so you know what he's talking about. So, so it's, it's. And so it's about this idea that we have this ability as human beings to step back and observe our. So we're talking about a certain kind of awareness, like mirror minus awareness, that's inclusive. It just allows us to see things and we can, through our self awareness, we can self regulate. It's about this idea that we have this ability as human beings to step back and observe our experience. So we're talking about a certain kind of awareness, like mirror miners awareness, that's inclusive. It just allows us to see things and we can, through our self awareness, we can self regulate. That means we can, you know, which is another part of emotional intelligence. We can regulate our thoughts, feelings, behaviors, and even how we interpret things. We have autonomy and that's it. We make choices, we are responsible. When we accept responsibility, then we can choose and we can make choices. And so I don't care what situation we're in, this always a little bit of space, right? But if we can create more space, if we can pause and reflect, if we could be still and know, or be still told, we know I'm going in bible over here, but you get what I'm saying? Yeah, you, you create space. And in that space, and this is what Victor Franco talked about in that space is the freedom and power to choose. Now how do you use that space? Well, if you have a principle, senate, purpose or life, now in that space, you get to choose according to your values, according to your goal, according to who you say you are and what you say you want to do. And so for the most part, we are an automatic pilot and we got these programs that are running without our permission. And so I'm talking about. We have this ability to sit back and observe things. And then that observation. We can start to see how things. How things arise and pass away. We start to see how things are connected. We start to see that when I'm just real basic stuff. So, you know, with this, you know, reptilian brain, that. The emotion, you know, that reptilian brain and those fight, flee, freeze and fun, which is like, you know, you, you know, become a doormat, whatever it is, however you want to look at it. But here's the thing. So when we get in and it's interesting because the fight is. Is helpful because sometimes you gotta fight. You got to use that fight to look. Okay, I'm gonna go here to look for food, or I'm gonna go here where. Where I can figure stuff out or whatever. So the fight fighter, freeze. And so. But we have the middle brain, which is the emotional brain. And then we have the prefrontal cortex where we can actually, you know, use, you know, we can, you know, the executive function. Right. So a lot of times when you get emotionally hijacked, we get. Something happens. Like, I'll talk about my boy Dennis Rodman, when he was. When he was on the sideline and he tripped over the reporter kicking him. It was like, that was a hijack because this dude could have ended his career.

Yep.

So instead of having the space and choose your response, there was no space. It was an automatic reaction. And so when you're in survival mode, that's what you do. And what you see is danger. Nine out of ten thoughts of danger. So you're in survival mode. Then you. You're not in growth mode. You're not in a mode where you have space and you can think. So you're in fear. No space. You're in love or growth mode. You have space. And so we have to understand that it's like. And it's interesting because I didn't put my glasses on, but. But it's like being in survival mode of growth mode. If you're in survival mode. If I have on the fair glasses, I'm looking for danger. And I'm probably going to fight you or run.

Yeah.

Or freeze until I figure stuff out. Or play dead, whatever it is. And then fun, whatever, you know, just tell you what you want to hear so I can stay safe. Safe. Okay. You know, it's like, you know, they say attack dogs. When they have attack dog on you, if you. If you show any kind of emotion, they attack you. But if you do this, they. They come down. And so it. This is. This is our nature. Right? And so we are learning how to say, when I'm in survival mode, I'm probably not seeing things clearly. And I'm probably, because here's the secret. And this guy, Bruce Lipton, he wrote a book called the Biology of Belief. He said, on a cellular level, the cell is either in survival mode or growth mode. You can't be in both seeing things clearly. And I'm probably because here's the secret. And this guy, Bruce Lipton, he wrote a book called the Biology of Belief. He said, on a cellular level, the cell is either in survival mode or growth mode. You can't be in.