Redefining Civil Rights: Marc Morial’s Modern Movement

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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another powerful episode of MC Unplugged. And today, we're going to get personal and emotional. My guest today led New Orleans through rebirth and now leads a national charge for equity, justice, and economic power. He's a civil rights titan, an author and CEO, and his impact echoes from city halls to Capitol Hill. He's someone who's had a profound mark on my life, and we're going to talk about that a little bit today. He's commanding. He's the visionary. He's. He is unyielding. He is Mr. Mark Morial. Mark, how are you doing today, sir?

Hey, I'm good to be with you, Mick. Thank you very much. Thanks for the generosity of the introduction, too, man.

I told you offline. I am the honored one. Man, the impact that you have had, not just on me, but I'm going to say millions of others is second to none. The man that you are, the leader that you are, but most importantly, the heart that you have and the inspiration that you showcase, brother. You mean the world to me, Mark.

Oh, man. Thank you for saying that. And I look, I stand on the shoulders of others. I always want people to know that that animates my spirit and. And it is. It is. It has ruled my life, which is observation of others who play leadership roles in my community, that I grew up with, in my family, but over also on the national stage. They've always been inspirations to me, and I just appreciate the chance to continue to serve and put people first. You know, in this work, you have to be a public servant. You gotta love people. You gotta love them with all of their, you know, good, bad, and ugly, because we all have good, bad, and ugly. So I'm always, you know, honored and stand on these shoulders of others. You know, I was a young guy, and because of my father and mother's involvement in civil rights and politics, I got a chance to. I kind of tagged along, saw things that, you know, childcare was. You come with me to the NAACP meeting. You come with me to the voter registration drive. You come with me while I run around town. You know, that was childcare. You gotta go, we ain't got no babysitter. You gotta come with me and you know, in those times, sometimes you are aggravated, man, why am I? I want to be home with my friends, I want to be on the block, I want to be playing football, I want to be hanging out, you know, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 years old. And you don't realize how you were absorbing through observation the work of giants, legends, legendary leaders in New Orleans, legendary community leaders and ministers and labor leaders and politicians that I just got an opportunity to observe as a very, very young person. And I know now what I didn't know then and that it was, it was being poured into my, into my being.

That's amazing. That's amazing, Mark. And you know, one of the things that I pride myself in is having a because that thing that's deeper than your why, right? Like, like people probably understand. My kids are my why, my wife is my why, but there's a reason that they're my why. And I call that your because. So if I were to ask you, Mark, man, like, what's your because? What's your purpose? Why do you keep doing what you do?

I think it's about economic justice. It's, it's about equality of opportunity. It is about people having a life of dignity, prosperity and the ability to use that God given talent. You know, that is what motivates me. That's been my life's work. Whether government has been a vehicle to accomplish it, whether civil rights has been a vehicle to accomplish it, whether my private law practice, where I represented a wide range of people and institutions, is a vehicle to accomplish it, that's what really, really energizes and animates me. And I've got a special, you know, a special affinity for the youth, special affinity for, you know, young people. Because my career politically particularly was I was always the youngest guy in the room.

Right.

You know, I had an early start. I got elected when I was young. I was the youngest. Cleo Fields and I served in the state senate together back in the 90s, early, early mid-90s. And he and I were the youngest guys in the U.S. senate. I mean, rather than in the Louisiana State Senate. I got elected mayor. 35, was the youngest guy in the caucus, the conference of mayors. So being a young guy in the room, sometimes with a chip on my shoulder, fighting for some respect, you know, was something that gives me this real, real idea that, you know, you gotta nurture young people, you gotta give them an opportunity, you gotta let them be who they are.

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. You know, one of the things that I admire about you and this is how you touched me at a young age. I had just graduated college. You had just become the CEO of the Urban League, the National Urban League. And I saw you at a press conference one time, man, like I was visiting New Orleans and you were having a press conference. And I didn't know what a press conference was at 22 years old, right? Like, I watched and I stopped. And you stood to me at the intersection of politics, activism and business. And you're one of the few people that really have done that. Like a lot of people don't understand. Like, there are people that are career politicians, there are people that are career activists, there are people that are career business leaders. You sit at the intersection of all three. And it was at that moment that I said, there's a bigger purpose for me because I saw somebody that looked like me that was standing in a room, talking so eloquently, but talking with purpose and talking with clarity and so much inspiration that a 23 year old me stood there and said, there's something more I can do with my life.

That's, that's just touching, Mick, because, you know, sometimes you never know if people are watching. You never know if people are listening. You never know if, if you're having an impact. I mean, you know, I was able to, you know, I was a young entrepreneur. First. First venture was 15 years old. It was a summer janitorial service. At three friends we got together, we cut grass, we cleaned cars, we cleaned windows, we waxed floors in houses in the neighborhood I grew up in. And then later on, another friend of mine, we actually incorporated a company. And we were party and special event planners. Right? At 18, 19, 20, 21 years of age, we were event planners. You know, we would rent out clubs, we, we'd cut a deal with the owner, we wouldn't rent. We'd say, look, here's how this works. We'll take a slow night. What's your slow night? Wednesday's my slow night. You take the bar, we're gonna put a five dollar charge on the door. That's what it costs in those days. And we're gonna promote this all over town. And we have a thousand people and we're gonna keep the door and you keep the bar. And that was our business model. And we would put flyers and we go to every other club, every other party, college campuses, and pass these flyers out. And it was, it was a venture. That third venture I had was gotten the cap and T shirt business and won two customers the New Orleans World's Fair was a customer. And the New Orleans Breakers, US Football League team, they had a USFL team in New Orleans. They were customer.

Yeah.

So I had these, you know, entrepreneurial activities. And while I was doing this, I was in college or in law school, so I was doing this while I was doing something else. And you know, truly business formation and entrepreneurship is part of civil rights, because what it is, it's about building economic independence, income and wealth. And you know, our ancestors, forefathers, foremothers who lived from the end of slavery until the civil rights generation were incredible entrepreneurs and pioneers. They built businesses, they built funeral homes, they built insurance companies, they built construction businesses. You know, I remember in my, in New Orleans when I grew up, black people could not. They wouldn't sell houses to black people. So what black people would do would. And in the working class and middle class, black people would buy a lot and get a black contract and build a house. They would build the type of house they couldn't buy.

Right, right.

Get a lot, built a house. And they were black contractors, Mr. Barnes, Mr. Gano. I mean, these guys were incredible, right, because they were great builders and they built with high quality. And they used all black artisans and craftspersons. You know, they used black carpenters and black drywall folks and black bricklayers and black concrete people and black guy with the pile driving company. You know, we had a true, you know, black economy. It was, you know, it was, it was, it was the economy where people were building independence, you know, and lived independent. We had that. I saw a census from New Orleans, 1940, that there were 40 black grocery stores in New Orleans in 1940, that there were like 10 black newspapers in 1940. Because the, you know, white New Orleans, you couldn't, you couldn't shop in white New Orleans generally. And so our folks, not only in New Orleans, but in Memphis and Birmingham and Montgomery and Atlanta and, you know, I'm sure in Greenville and Columbia and Charlotte and Raleigh and Durham, Durham being one of the capitals of black capitalism. I mean, built communities and built businesses and built sustainability. I mean, it was something to behold when we think about it. And then when civil rights came, we became much more mainstreamed. It was about the job in government or the job in the private sector, the job of the company that we couldn't get, that our parents couldn't get. In a place like New Orleans before 1965, 66, 67, a black person could not even be a garbage man. Right. A black person could not buy, drive a bus. A black person's only Job in government was as a janitor, unless you were in the all black school where you were teachers and administrators and coaches and principals.

Right.

And so it's, you know, I reflect on that because I think you can't effectively navigate the future unless you have some sensibility of the past. And all of the work that helped generations of people, you know, get over it, move past it. And the struggles and the battles.

Yeah.

That they. That they waged wholeheartedly.

Wholeheartedly. And I'm gonna talk about some of your accomplishments now because I know you're very humble. Right. But I think sometimes you need to hear about the goodness of things that you did, man. Like when you were the mayor of New Orleans, lowest crime rate that they had ever had. Right. You brought economic growth back to the city. You cleaned up the. The perception of what New Orleans was on a national level. Like, you did those things. And I don't think people understand the brevity of that because it's not like you can just go in there and snap your fingers in a house, man.

It was hard work.

Yes.

We created a bit of a movement. And it was a movement to rebuild New Orleans.

Yes.

I mean, and I felt like we had to create a movement atmosphere.

Yeah.

You know, a movement atmosphere to get people active and involved. And we tackled the, you know, the violence problem is what compelled me to run for office. We were having, you know, we had 450 murders, something of that sort of.

Yeah.

1993, 1994, we had a corrupt and ineffective police department. And all I drove around, driving past some playgrounds, broken bottles, broken basketball goals. I said, this is not gonna sustain. This is not how it should be. And it really, in almost a fit of just passion, I said, I'm going to do something about all of this. And so I embraced a strategy to deal with violence that was multifaceted. You know, in those days, people would get in these long debate, oh, you know, we need more police. No, we need more social programs. We need more this week. I said, you know, we're going to have more of all right, but we're going to fix this police department. And ultimately we're going to need some more policemen, but we're going to have a different quality of officer. We're gonna have a different set of standards. We're not gonna have this underperforming, lackadaisical system. And then I said, we're gonna invest in youth. So that first summer I was. First summer I took office in May, put together 40 summer camps, put together 3,000 summer jobs for youth. And I told every agency in the government, you all are going to contribute to this summer jobs program. Nobody can have their own little program. And I'm going to have a lottery to pick the participants. I got no politics in this. And I had a big lottery and I got some of the Saints football players to come out and pick the numbers out of the hat. Such I wanted to change the system in terms of how you did, how you got involved. You don't have to know somebody. Yeah, right. You basically, you know, this is, this is. And I divided up the slots by council manage districts. We had five. But it set the template for investing in youth. We invested in midnight basketball, we invested in starlight basketball, which was for girls. We learned when we brought all the young people together that the recreation department did not have any programs for girls. Nothing really. So we hired a women's athletic director and created a whole set of programming for girls. You know, we were just, you know, I was the kind of person, kind of, you know, if we talk, I said, look, give me some ideas. And if people came up with a good idea, I'm like, let's go do it. You know, we're not gonna get caught up in a paralysis of study. We're gonna try to do it. If it doesn't work with, we'll chuck it, we'll put it on the side and we'll go do something else. And so we had all of this youth programming and it was contagious because as the city did it then churches and faith based organizations decided to create their own camps, their own youth programs. I mean, so we had this whole almost revolution in youth programming in, in New Orleans in those days. I also did something that, you know, it was dramatic. I put a curfew in place and I'm a civil rights, civil libertarian person. But I said, too many of these kids are getting killed at night. They're out. Look, we're gonna help the parents. Yeah, you have to be in now. If you're going to work, you're accepted, you're going to school activity. But you know, New Orleans also has an attractive nightlife. You know, a few French Quarter. We got, we got, we got Frenchman street. We got all kind of. So, you know, people like to be out. But we had to, we had to deal with the fact that we had too many youth getting hurt and we did the curfew in a very different way. We did not take the young people. We did, we, we picked up off the street to jail. We brought them to a community center. We called it the curfew center. And we called their parents. Come pick up your son, Come pick up your daughter. No questions asked. Come pick them up. And it had a dramatic impact. And so we were ideating and creating all these initiatives and these programs and then trying to do things differently. Right? We were trying to do it. So we had to clean up policing, we had to put police substations in public housing. We put police officers on bikes, we put them on foot. The chief I had, Richard Pennington, was an incredible chief. He said, I'm going to find some guys who grew up in the desired public housing development and I'm going to let them patrol there. He says, you can't put guys, officers, men and women in these neighborhoods. And they're all, none of them have lived in these neighborhoods.

Yes, sir.

You got to pick some folks and they're going to be known and they're going to be comfortable and they're going to understand the rhythm of the place. So they don't go in there like they're a bunch of outsiders. Police officers are not the military. You know, they're there to protect and to serve.

Yes, sir.

Military is there to protect and defend. It's a different mission. So it was tremendously successful. Also was very aggressive about black business and minority business and women owned businesses having an opportunity, doing business with the city and doing business on major projects. And I had opposition from people in that regard. And I knew it was just people protecting their own economic turf, you know, and I had to break that up to the extent that I could. We had a very successful run. I left office with the highest approval ratings of any mayor in modern New Orleans history. I won two elections, both by significant margins, and we just worked every single day. I had open door policy at city hall as far as community groups and, you know, if somebody wants to come, you know, talk, raise an issue, I'm, I'm trying to hear you now. That doesn't mean I'm gonna agree with you. So I, I was at. And I also was. And I think I picked this up from my father, you know, being just a straight shooter with people. You know, you come down and talk to me, you're gonna get, you can get an answer. It might be a yes, might be a no, but you're gonna get an answer. Right?

That's it.

I'm not gonna play you and delay and, oh, man, I'm trying to think about it. I'll say, look, I don't think I can make that work. Or, you know what your idea is. Good, but it's half formed. Come back with a better idea. So we, you know, we did a lot of, you know, I had open door policy with the business community, many of whom did not support me initially. I had an open door policy. And we. We had a tremendous relationship with ministerial and faith leadership in the city. We convened them on a quarterly basis. We held a luncheon for them on a quarterly basis to talk about the affairs of the city. We had a great relationship with labor. Right. Labor. Again, you know, we have periodic. I believe in engaging with people on a periodic basis because, you know, I took the. I got to hear what they're saying. I need to hear. I need to hear. And sometimes I need to hear it uninterpreted by staff and others. Yeah, you know, I gotta hear. I gotta hear. And they say, okay, I hear you, but I'm not. I'm not following. Help me follow. So, you know, that's the kind of, you know, administration and leadership we had. And look, I had a tremendous number, great people around me, young people, lots of young people. Some gray beards, too. A record number of women in leadership positions. We had the four first Asian Americans to serve in a. In a cabinet, the first LGBTQ cabinet member in New Orleans history. I mean, I had an inclusive administration. I called it the Gumbo coalition.

Yes, sir.

And so that was, you know, that was. That was a run. And being mayor of a major American city is a tough job. It is a demanding job. It is a painful job sometimes, but I loved every minute of it because I felt close to the people. And the people treat you like you're their, you know, their big brother. Older women who treat me. I'm like their son, you know, they treat you like. Like you're their neighbor, right?

Yep.

And that relationship with the people is something I really, really treasure.

Absolutely. And you did it with dignity. You did it with grace, and you did it from a point of inspiration. I'm always going to say the most inspiring person I know is you. And I mean that.

Thank you.

But you took that purpose, and I'm going to say you completed the mission. Right. But then there was a bigger mission.

Right.

The Urban League comes calling. Right. So talk to us about accepting. Accepting that call, accepting that purpose.

You know, when I got the call to basically asking me if I would interview for the job, I was about six or eight months out of office. I begun practicing law at a great law firm. And the first thing I thought of was Whitney Young and Vernon Jordan. And I thought of. They were role models of mine. I mean, Whitney Young, I followed his career to the pages of JET magazine. Vernon Jordan, I met when I was a teenager and later on met him again because his daughter went to college with me at the University of Pennsylvania. Mick, can you hear me? Is it. Is it going okay? Yeah. And so I thought. I thought, wow, this is a historic civil rights organization. This is a great opportunity. This is a national stage of advocacy. I didn't know at the time, as I applied and got the job, that the organization needed a serious uplift and a serious makeover. Generationally, it had become proud and aging. Yeah, very proud. But we had a lot of, you know, the organization to some extent, was operating in almost in the past tense. Right. And. And, and sometimes what happens when you're operating in the past, you don't know it on the inside, but everybody on the outside knows it.

Yeah.

Unless you can confront that as opposed to fighting it. I had someone who worked for the league the first month I was there said, well, you know, you. You want to. You want us to brag about our accomplishments? He says, you don't understand. That's just not our way. I said, that used to. That used to be your way. I said, I believe in advocacy. I believe in promotions. I believe in hype. I do not believe in, you know, let's just do it. Don't tell anybody about it. And so we led, you know, a significant remake of the organization. I mean, the predecessors, the people who served before me, they were right for those times when I took over. I was in my mid-40s, and they wanted a younger person and they wanted someone with political chops and some management ability. And, I mean, the rest is history. You know, we created. So now, you know, 20 years later, the organization is five times as large as it was back then. We're building a brand new headquarters building. We'll be moving in in September. We have seen a dramatic expansion of our programs. Workforce development, housing. We've brought an entrepreneurship program into the portfolio of the League. We have expanded our advocacy on a national level. We have embraced coalition building with other civil rights and social justice organizations. It's been dramatic. And I've said, you know, we have to be there on major issues and we have to be present and we have to run quality programs. Urban League is unique in that we do civil rights advocacy, but we also do direct services programming. And that direct programming is really what defines us. You want a job? Go to the Urban League. You want to get trained for a Job. Go to the Urban League. You try to become a homebot. Go to the Urban League. You are looking for a safe, wholesome after school program for your child. Go to the Urban League. During COVID we were vaccinating, I think we vaccinated a quarter of a million to a half a million people through a promotional campaign we had. We have an entrepreneurship initiative where we provide services, free technical services to entrepreneurs. We serve about 10,000 of them in any given year. I mean, this is the work that we do and we've worked to expand that work and it's the way work that distinguishes us from other organizations. And so, you know, we're, you know, I like to use the term, I say we're sui generis. We're a unicorn in the space. And some people say, well, you think you can do all of the above? Actually, all of the above is really singular in that we are fighting on behalf of people to build the policy and then we're involved in the execution of the very same policy. And that's the connective tissue between the work we do in public policy and advocacy and the work we do on the programmatic side.

Yeah, and you're exactly right. Like I tell people all the time, I told you, I talked to Les, we talk about you specifically twice a month because for the 23 year old me. So going back to that moment that I was touched I heard of the Urban League. I knew what the Urban League was, but I thought the Urban League had ceased to exist. I thought it was one of those things like SNCC and slick that just, you know, it was there, but it's no longer here. And I remember calling my mom and saying, hey, I thought the Urban League was no more, but the Urban League is back. And my mom was like, no, they're not, right? And I was like, no, they're back. And so I've been able to see over the last 20 years the resurgence, the back in the community, the advocacy for what you're just talking about, inspiring youths, connecting with business owners, connecting with city and government officials, that you are, in my words, these are the words of Mick and Mick, only that unique, one of one for our community. And I genuinely mean that.

Well, I feel like, you know, one of the other things I've tried to do here at the league is, you know, work closely with other civil rights leaders. And you know, we're closely with Reverend Al Derek Johnson, Melanie Campbell, the Legal Defense Fund, the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights, National Council of Negro Women Leadership Conference with Civil Rights and then we work with the Latino, Asian, other communities as well. So one of the philosophies that I try to embrace is coalition building. And in a coalition building mindset, everybody swims in their own lane, but we're swimming in the same direction. It doesn't mean that we agree on tactics and strategy for everything under the sun. It means. And I just felt like there was too much petty personality rivalries, you know, among. Among African American leaders. And I just, yeah, it. To me, it makes nice talk, nice gossip, but it doesn't get you anywhere. And I also think the adversaries of our leadership, they throw wedges in between us if we allow that to happen. And I just, you know, I just feel like it's counterproductive, but that you can have constructive disagreements.

Absolutely. Absolutely. So for the listeners and viewers right now, with you leading the National Urban League, what's one shift that everybody needs to make that can not only support the Urban League, but support America?

We are in an environment today with the new administration where there's an assault on civil rights. There's an assault on much of the progress we've made. Many of these executive orders, efforts to shut down agencies, efforts to purge. Look, the head librarian of the Library of Congress, Carla Hayden, distinguished African American woman, was fired for no reason. And then they said, well, she's de. And I. Well, you're not saying she's. You're saying she's black. She was fired. Right, because she was black. That sickens me. And so we're. We're in a period now where people have to recognize how important it is for them to be engaged, use their voice, use their vote. It is not easy to deal with what we're dealing with. But there's an assault. There's really an effort to undermine progress. And see, in the short run, you hear noise, but you don't feel the damage. In the long run, the noise will subside, but the damage will be done. You know, it's like a cut. You know, it bleeds and then it gets infected. Right. And so we have to recognize that in this moment and that to assert that is not just about. It's not about partisan politics. It's not what it's about. It's about standing up for some basic American principles. It is a basic American principle to me that everyone should have fair access to the American dream. It is a basic principle to me that everyone should have an unobstructed right to vote. It is a basic principle to me that we should have freedom of speech and Freedom to learn about our history and our culture. I think there's some basic things that are very fundamental that appear to be under attack, that are under attack. And I just feel like I don't want people. We can't be weary, tired. Complacency is our enemy. Despair is not a strategy. Being pissed off and angry is not a strategy, except to the extent that it energizes us to do something. That's where we are today. And I would encourage people to get involved. If you want to get involved in the Urban league, go to nul.org sign up. You can be part of our advocacy efforts and that sort of thing. You can join a local affiliate in 92 communities across the nation. If the Urban League is not for you, join an organization that's committed to civil rights and social justice. Be a part, use your social media to not only post beautiful pictures of yourself, but also to advocate for the kind of change and community improvement. But mainly we have to be active and involved. Get involved through your church, get involved through a community group. So important.

Yes, sir. I love you more than you know, man. I respect for, for the path that you have given to me and I, I don't want to leave without giving you the floor, man. I know we've got, you've got a lot going on, a lot that's upcoming. So, so talk to us a little bit about this Gumbo Coalition and some other things that, that you have coming up.

Go to, go to Amazon, go to an online book sale. I've got a leadership book called the Gumbo Coalition. Go to hbo. Max. There's a documentary on myself and Janet Mergia, a very, very incredible leader. She leads the largest Latino civil rights organization in the nation. Unidos us. Go check out some of the work that we are doing. But my appeal to people is to be active and involved, be part of the work of community. Yeah, things are tough out there. Some people, I don't have any time. You got time to send some tweets, you got time to send some, send some ig posts. You got some time to put some messages out there, follow us, retweet, repost, re, IG it, you know, use your social media voice. But get active, be involved. And then the other thing too. Let's always reach back to the next generation. Reach back. And I, you know, I've got a 23 year old son and an 18 year old daughter and my 23 year old son. I've been encouraging him by example and by words. Hey look you guys now are old enough to go back to your high school and talk to some young guys and just encourage them, right?

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Marc Muriel, ladies and gentlemen. He's been an inspiration to be in touch.

And if you want to bring your podcast down to Cleveland for the National Urban League Conference in Cleveland in July, go to nur.org for more. If you want to come down there and set up, let us know.

I will totally do that. I will do that and I've got.

Some back in touch with us and we'll, we'll, we usually have a podcasters row and you know, radio row, etc.

We will totally make that happen. We will totally make that happen. To all the viewers and listeners, remember your because is your superpower. And more importantly, like my guy Mr. El says go make impact and go do it today. I appreciate you. To all the viewers and listeners, remember your because is your superpower. And more importantly, like my guy Mr. Says go make impact and go do it today. I appreciate you.