Chris Warner: The Behaviors of High Performing Teams

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Oh, that's unnecessary.

No, there's something. There's something caught in there. You know what?

I'm noticing you clearing your throat now that Krista pointed out.

I do clear my throat a lot, don't I? Yeah, too much. I try. I think I figured out what the cause is. I'll tell you about that in a second. My name is Mike McCallitz. I'm the author on a mission to eradicate entrepreneurial poverty. You and I, my dear listening friend, we're gonna fix that. On today's episode, Jordan Studio by two of my favorite colleagues, Kelsey Ayers.

Hello, friend.

You're dancing, Kelsey. No, it's okay. Why do you think I introduced Jeremy first? I never do.

Well, you said my two friends and then it was like Kelsey Ayers.

Oh, oh, oh. I got you, Kelsey Ayers and Jeremy Club.

Yeah.

Back to you, Kelsey.

Yeah. Thank you for listening, guys. Please don't forget to subscribe wherever you're listening and clubone.

Hey, and yeah, if you are watching on YouTube. Feel free to leave a comment.

So here's my situation. I do clear my throat a lot and I think.

Let me clear my throat.

The reason is I have a post nasal drip. I have a nasally voice. And I think when someone has a nasally voice, it's a first indication of a septum. Septum deformity. A septical deformity. A septic deformity. I think I have a septic deformity. Make that one of the T shirts that we're still not making. Septic deformity. Mike suffers from a. Right, here's the T shirt. I suffer from a septic deformity. What's your excuse? That's this T shirt. That's the best T shirt ever. I suffer from a septic deformity. And in parentheses, what's your excuse? That's why I think I clear my throat so much.

I actually can only breathe out of one of my nostrils.

For real?

Yeah.

What do you mean when, like one's totally shut down?

Not totally shut down. Yeah, they're off duty. Yeah.

Well, you say you only breathe through one nostril.

That's a valid question.

What am I supposed to say? It's off duty. Defensive shut down. I'm surprised your mom even listens. Your mom, Pat was probably like, oh.

Yeah, she thinks of you as her sunshine.

Yeah. She's like, oh, yeah, he does have a shut down nasal cavity. It happened when he was three years old. She was trying to, you know, use one of the suckers to get out the snot. They do that with babies. And it got jammed in there and. And he had a septical deformity.

Yeah.

And you shut down a nostril?

No, really, I only have. It's probably like 80 or. I lost 80% out of my one nostril.

So did you lose it?

Because I got hit with a baseball and broke my nose. And then I never. They thought everything was fine and I never had any surgery or anything.

Dude, so you got hit in the face with a baseball. Have you ever climbed the Himalayas, repelled or trying to repel you lean back and all of a sudden tumble 450ft through the air, hitting a ledge, bouncing off, falling under 50ft and survive? Have you had that?

No, that never happened to me.

What if. Dude, tell me this is not crazy. This is our guest, Chris Warner. What if that happened on September 17, 1989? Okay. And what if 10 years later to the day on September 17, you decide to go into Tibet and an avalanche takes you and you tumble and get buried below the snow up to your neck or into your neck. And below you, the avalanche continues on and falls off an ice cliff.

What are the chances?

Like, there's no chances. But it happened to our guest. What if on September 17th. So that was 1999, September 17th, 2009, you decided to stay home and curled up on your couch and just cried? I think that makes sense because that's what Chris did. And he said the spell was broken. We are about to have one of the most interesting guests on our show in just a few minutes. His name's Chris Warner, and we already. We were talking off air. We already have a challenge going on between me and him. You know, he. He is clearly one of these high performance, extreme export type of guys. So I. I dropped the bomb on him. I said, we're gonna have a competition on this episode. If you like extreme sports and what the competition is. And Chris, you're there, right?

Yep.

Okay. What the competition is, is there was a jacket back from the late 70s, maybe early 80s, that was, like, had these little. I call them eyelets, like the little loops on your shoulder. And Chris and I are trying to battle out who can think of what the name was of that jacket first. But you guys are in the competition too now. You can't Google it.

That's what, like. What, like the 80s musicians and rockers used to wear, right?

Yeah, it was called, like, men's. Men's Chris.

Oh, men's club.

Not men's club, but you're close. Oh.

Oh, I know.

What?

I know what it is.

What?

I'm not gonna say it because it's a competition.

No, you can say no. No. All of us are in. Chris. How about this? Because we're older, we get the first volley. What. What's your attempt at what that product was? And then they get it.

I just, like, right on the table.

I know it is. I keep thinking it was maybe, like, a Hugo Boss jacket, but I cannot remember what those are called.

No.

Yeah.

No. What is it, Jason?

I just. I just lost it. I just had it, and I just lost it.

Games back on. So you guys get the next volley. Just blur it out when you have it. We can be in the middle of an interview. We can be in the middle of the most important content we've ever delivered and just stop it and say, stop talking, Chris. Yeah, with a little fo. It's not men's only. Members only. Yes. Congratulations, Jeremy. You win. Absolutely nothing.

Yes.

Okay, before we go into our interview, do we have any guest mail?

Oh, yeah, we do. Okay, ready?

Yeah.

This comes from Elaine White. She writes, I found this.

Now, by the way, if you say the word excited at all, you get the buzzer. Just, you know, keep going. Don't skip ahead. Start reading.

Okay. She writes, the best teacher is your last mistake. I found this fabulous quote today as I have been plotting away at cutting expenses by $386 per month. Oh, my goodness. No wonder I.

By the way, it's not 386. I just want to cut you off. It's $3,867.

Oh, I know.

Yeah, so. But thanks for minimizing what she did. Whoops.

A do. Oh, my goodness. No wonder I never had any flipping money left over in the past. I already started the caps, open my accounts, cut all of the automatic payments, watched the video series I purchased. I would say a grand start for week one. I have never felt as excited about my.

That was the buzzword. Excited.

I just feel so calm. Despite the work ahead. I knew I was doing something wrong for all these years, but I could never seem to get the problem. Yes, it was me, but it was also the system I was trying to follow. Like saying, I am never going to eat carbs or sugar again. Unsustainable and set up to fail from the first sweet potato slice as a sandwich replacement. Looking forward to see where this takes me.

All right. Congratulations. How do you. How does it make you feel, Kels?

Excited.

Yes. You nailed it. You're good. Yeah, that was cool. We love listener mail. Thank you for saying that.

What was the sweet potatoes? The giggle? What was that?

This is a cute comment.

Oh, I. Do we get something on film?

I think so.

Oh, good. All right. Put that in our tape. I can't wait for cute. When is this gonna come out?

Oh, this.

This is our Christmas finale.

Yeah.

Yeah. This is New Year's.

New Year's.

New Year's. Our New Year's video series. I cannot wait for that retreat. That's gonna be so much fun. Where are we going?

Pennsylvania.

Oh, are we going to Skytop Hot Spot?

No.

Kelsey just told me she comes to where I live all the time and never.

I say all the time. I never come once every couple years. Geez Louise.

But where. Where's our retreat?

It is called Hot Spot.

No, it's not. Mount Airy Lodge.

Bear.

Bear. Yeah.

Bear Creek.

Bear Creek Mountain.

Bear Creek Mountain Lodge. Where's Bear Creek?

Bear Creek, isn't it.

It's not that water park, is it? No.

They have. They turn the Mountain. All the those mountains turn into something in the summertime.

Oh, can we go skiing or something?

We can. We can go snow. T I elect for snow tubing.

Yes.

And they also have archery. We could do archery.

That's great.

Yeah.

I don't know why I didn't see, like arrows going all the wrong directions, but that was fun going tubing. Can we go on wall one, big tube.

Yeah.

Okay. That's gonna be fun.

Yeah.

I can't wait for every tree. Can you bring the video to the retreat?

Yeah, sure.

Okay.

Yeah.

All right. No, no, no, no. Just do it prior to the retreat. I'm just saying.

Oh, that composed video.

Oh, yeah, yeah, bring the composed video. No, don't work on the retreat.

No, no, I want to bring a GoPro.

Just bring GoPro. Yeah, we're GoPro and film it.

That's good.

But I want to produce this video with Kelsey. You know, I want you to produce that video and we show, you know, Kelsey videos every quarter. I think that'd be fun.

That would be fun.

Just so much fun.

Just keep you in your place. Do you have anything else to cover? Oh, I want to thank nextiva for making the show possible. We'll share more about them. They have a brand new feature you probably have not heard of coming out. We'll share more details on that a little bit. And I think that's it. Let's get into the meat and potatoes today.

Let's get into it.

All right. We're talking about behaviors of high performance teams and their leaders. We have Chris Warner who's joining us today. Now let me give you his background. Chris Warner is a successful keynote speaker who uses his gripping stories of Everest and K2. He's talked about that to help companies build better teams. Hmm. Right. It's interesting how sometimes out of these most traumatic parts of our life come our inspiration for changing other people's lives. While on the edge of their seats. He guides the audience through life or death leadership lessons and teaches a data driven, real world formula for building high performance team teams. Chris, welcome to our show.

Welcome, Chris.

Thanks, team. Great to be part of you.

Hey, so listen, you were through some events that normally, you know, take out people's lives and at least puts them on a brand new trajectory. But usually it's, I think it's of depression and fear. It sounds like you spun this in a way that's so unexpected, of serving others in a non traditional sense. I mean, not even like about climbing, about high performance. How does it take a twisted turn.

Like that, Well, I think when your life depends on your team, you're. You have a huge investment in wanting to learn how to make the team be better. And then while I was doing all this high, I still do high altitude mountaineering, but while I was doing all these expeditions, I was also building a business and I was also teaching at Wharton, I was teaching leadership there. So I had all of these parallel paths. You know, entrepreneur, academic, and, you know, adventurer. And, you know, each of them fed into the other. So what you'd learn in the mountains, you'd apply to work, and what you'd apply to work, you'd apply to your, you know, to the teaching in the classroom. So it was, it, to me, it was a completely natural fit. And I think I probably found all three of those activities because I had a natural interest in leadership.

Interesting. So tell me about the, the behaviors of high performing teams. Like, what does that even mean? How do we define that?

Well, you know, there's three drivers of results. There's techniques, there's tools, and there's behaviors. So if you look at just about any company, you know, let's just say you're an accounting group, you really have the same tools as your, as all of your competitors. You know, you'll have laptops on your desk, you'll have similar software. You know, if you look at your business techniques, you're, you're pretty similar again across the spectrum. But what defines your firm from the next firm is the behaviors of your employees. And, and if you could bring out the best behaviors in your team, then you're obviously going to outperform your competition. And, you know, even though I taught at Wharton, the geniuses at Harvard had done a study and they looked at these three things, you know, tools, techniques, and behaviors. And they found that 70% of your future success is dependent upon your behaviors, not your tools or techniques.

Huh.

So, yeah.

All right, so tools and techniques are learned. Is behavior kind of hardwired into us? Oh, boy.

We're in big trouble if that's the case, right?

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. 70%.

Yeah. That was one of the really interesting conversations that we kept having when we were at Warden was, you know, are leaders born or made? And we realized that it didn't matter. We had to learn how to make them right? So, because, look, we need, we need better leaders. And if you look at any business, especially a business that's growing, then they need to scale up their leadership bench. Otherwise they cannot grow or they will grow towards, you know, this Massive level of dysfunction.

Okay, so let's talk about making them. I, I, I know there's psychological needs y, that leaders and members have. Can you give me some of that makeup?

Sure. Well, I think that there's, there's, there's structural things that all great teams have. Like they have a mission that motivates people. They're united by the core values. And then there's behavioral needs like this flesh that, that, that, that, this, this is built with. And so there's four main characteristics that every great leader has. One is that they're passionate. And if you guys think about it, there's nothing as contagious as emotions. And so if you bring, you know, negative emotions, you know, if you're a curmudgeon, cynical or whatever, your team, you're just going to burn people out and they're not going to work with you. But if, and not that you have to be a cheerleader, but at least if you have, you know, you know, an emotional, a strong emotional makeup and you bring, you know, love for the activity, et cetera to what you're doing, people are going to follow you. So it's passion is one vision. You know that 70% of people when surveyed say that the thing that is most important in a leader is that they're forward looking. And so if you're not seen as being visionary, if you can't craft and communicate a vision to people, people will literally not see you as being a leader. And then there's partnership. And you know, the two most important words in a relationship are trust and caring. And it's so important that we, you know, we develop trustworthy relations with people. We show people that we care about them all the time. And you know, caring is, it's just a thousand simple acts of kindness. And you know, trust obviously is something that, you know, we, as leaders, we give trust and we earn trust. We don't make other people, you know, we just, we assume right away that people are trustworthy and that way we get the most out of them. And then lastly, it's perseverance. And you know, I've worked with NFL coaches and covert operations teams, et cetera. And those groups are great at practicing before the big event and then learning from that, you know, reflecting on their past experiences so that they can be ready for the next challenge. And most teams are terrible, like business teams are terrible at looking at the past and learning from it. So they just keep repeating the same mistake after mistake after mistake. So, you know, great teams, when you look at their leaders and this is something I always survey for when I'm with groups is, you know, are people passionate about the organization? Are they, you know, can they create a craft and communicate a vision? Are they good partners? And then lastly, did they, you know, did they have perseverance? Do they know how to work smart, not just hard?

So leaders, that term confuses me because I know there's titled leaders. You have a president of a company or whatever, but then you actually have this. The social leaders. Like I went to, I remember I went to this one office, I walked in, it's a 30 person office and there's all the title people in their nice closed door offices. The receptionist was the social leader, it was a woman and she, she ran the show. How do you define a leader?

Well, I define a leader as somebody who can, you know, get the, the energy of the group and use the energy of the group to solve the problem that the group is facing. And it's funny that what you describe, I've always actually called that the, the phantom leader. Quite often an organization has somebody who is the true leader, but it's not the titled leader. And I've always called that person the phantom leader. And that person, if you are the phantom leader, that's a great role to have, especially if you're working towards the goal of the organization. But in a lot of organizations, the phantom leader is working against ownership and that's where obviously it's a gigantic problem.

So that's a unique anomaly, but I see it. So how do we address that? Let's talk about our own company. So Kelsey is president of our company. We have 15, 16. We hired someone else now. 16 people here. There are reports that people have and stuff. How would she figure out who actually has that phantom leadership capacity here? How do you find that person and then how do you get them on your side?

Okay, so how would you spot them? You just have to look.

Yeah. How do you even know they exist? Because internally I think it's hard to see for the main boss maybe.

I would think they would be hard to see for most people because most people are just oblivious to what's going on around them.

Right, exactly.

I mean, you see that all the time in surveys.

You described Kelsey perfectly.

I do surveys all the time with groups. And what you find is that, you know, the senior leadership always have a super high opinion of the company. And what I love about the surveys is that we always have outliers that have a completely opposite opinion where the senior leaders see things as great, they see things as terrible. And it is so great to be confronted by that reality. And then you start to look, you know, you could start to look around. So I think you. And look at a team your size, this probably isn't the case anyway. But in a bigger company, let's say you had, you know, a hundred people or 200 people or something. Yeah. You need to figure out what that tool is going to be. I've always had great luck with, you know, external surveys that told us that. And. But I, I think the general assumption is then, like, in a time of stress, who does everybody go to?

Oh, great indicator.

You see that. And it's also too, It's. This is a very. This is complicated. Right. Because certain types of stress are better handled by different people in your organization. So like, like, if you, let's say you have a tragedy, there's somebody who's going to be really good at giving hugs. There's somebody going to be really good at making sure that dinners are prepared for that person. There's somebody who's going to be really good at making sure that their financial needs are met during that circumstance, that somebody else is going to make sure that their tasks at work are done. It doesn't mean that any of those people love that person less, but they all just played a different role in trying to help that person through this tragedy.

Mm, no, I like that. So what about that case where the phantom leader is acting against the defined leader? Is there a way to address that?

Fire him.

I'm giving an awkward pause. I was just doing an awkward pause. I wanted to see who go longer.

Yeah.

Yeah. I guess it's that simple, right?

Well, it's not, it's never simple to fire people. We know that. But yes, when that person is working against the good of the organization. And quite often, like, there's so. There's so much study that's been done, especially on people who think that they're a players. And if you, if we're, if. Let's just talk about judging people just to give a background to this. So if everybody sticks their left hand in front of their face, right. And you could make you drop your, you know, your, your thumb points to the, to the right and your index fingers pointing straight up. So you made a little L. So we judge people on these two axises. So if we go and go up our index finger, we judge people on do they deliver strategic results? But we also judge people on are they aligned with our core values? And if you make a super simple spreadsheet for you know, quadrants, there's people that deliver strategic results and are aligned with your core values and those are your A team people, right? Those are the people that you build the success of your organization on and they're the people who make you all the money. If we look at the, the lower bottom corner, the people who don't deliver strategic results and not and are not aligned with our core values, it's obvious to us that we need to fire those people. But it's the people who are deliver strategic results but are not aligned with our core values. Like I'm assuming this phantom leader is in this organization, this organization, that person. So those, we see those people all the time in business and business leaders inspiring those people. And the truth is that those people, they have a direct negative impact on your company. In fact, 87% of other people want to leave your company because of that person. And you know who leaves first, of course, is the people who are best. Right? Because they, they, they, they, they're, they're other people want them right to work for their company. So then 93% of people report that they a loss of performance because instead of doing the hard good work for the company, they're actually cleaning up the petty dramas that this person constantly creates. And 73% of all managers don't know how to deal with these people. And that's the real tragedy that's out there because we let these people stay around. So the longer they stay around, the less productive the organization is and the more the good people leave the team. And so it's our job as managers to identify those people and get rid of them. And the good news is, is that when you get rid of them, they tend to go on to less, less levels of performance. So if you take, and Wall street studied this for a long period of time, they would have these high performers like let's say you wanted, you know, like you were selling jelly beans or something. Well, the highest performance jelly bean guy, they would, they would, you know, that person would go and move to another company and it would actually sell less jelly beans. And the reason they sold less jelly beans is because at your company they had created a group of enablers that they held hostage. And those enablers helped them do their job. And in the new company, people wouldn't put up with their, their bs and so they, they're not going to help them be successful. Yeah, yeah. So this I, I've always called those people dangerous, unproductive and dysfunctional. Interesting duds.

Interesting.

You can, you might call Them a different word.

Dude, that's awesome. Yeah, well, no, I think that's pretty good for now. What about the bottom right of that quadrant where it's. I know they share your core values, but they're not bringing strategic results. So those are people you love, but they suck.

And they're the hardest people to fire. When I survey groups all the time, they'll all say the same thing because, well, it's actually funny at first. They'll say it's the person at the top, the guy, the person who delivers strategic results. But it's not aligned because those people, you know, people see that they're the rainmaker. They're the, you know, they're the only genius in the organization. They take credit for everybody else's work. So people are like, oh, if we lose them, you know, the company's going to fall apart. But we know factually that that's not the case. The people on the other side that you're talking about, the people that we love but don't do anything, those are the hardest people to fire because, you know, like, oh, they just got a puppy. Or, you know, like, they have to pay their mortgage.

There's always a reason to keep them on for another week.

And, you know, they do bring brownies on Wednesdays, you know, so they're just good energy.

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They can be. But so let's, you know, if we flip this again, if we think about those four quadrants, it takes a different kind of leader to manage each of those four groups. So I, you know, when I put myself through college, roofing and framing houses. Right. So it was in that group, part of the construction industry. And I would say almost everybody was a red employee, like a bottom employee. They. They hated their job and they hated each other, and so they did the least amount of work. And so the only way that you could lead a group like that is through coercion. Or threats. And so to be a, to lead that group, you had to be a bully. And then if you look at the group that you were just talking about, the persons that are super nice but don't get a lot done, you have to be a bureaucrat. You have to create all sorts of levels of structure to those people to be able to follow, to be successful. And because, you know, they don't want to disappoint you. So they're going to figure out a way to work hard six hours a month or something like that to hit these different quotas that you put out there for them. The person that's that high performer but low on the core values thing, you just have to be more charming and cunning than them, right? Because they're master manipulators of the whole environment. So they expect you to the only way you can, you have to, you know, just have to out con them all the time. And then lastly, that group of people that we all love, the people who are high performers, right, that deliver strategic results and are aligned with our core values, the kind of leadership that works best with them are people that are humble and passionate. If you think about it, you can't bully those people. They won't stay right. If you're a bureaucrat, you'll drive them crazy. If you're, if you try to just be charming and cunning all the time, they'll see right through you. So that, and that's the group. Like everybody needs to build a business that's built around those people. Like the people who. And if you think about most teams, it's the squeaky wheel that gets all the oil, right, that gets the energy and they don't deserve it. It's the quiet, hard working, nice person who should be getting all of the rewards as opposed and all of your energy.

It's interesting, the team Cal State you're building here. I would argue it's because you're humble and passionate that we've created such a great team. Like the people that work for you love you. We'll take a bullet for you. So it's interesting how it just fits right into what Chris is saying. Hey, Chris, what about being all judgy? Judgy? Because that's one of the Kelsey's weaknesses. She's very judgy. When we're considering others, we're trying to build a high performance team. I bring a bias to the table. How do we manage that? I see what I want to see. You know, I don't.

I think part of that is Just the look, it's a human organization, right? So there are going to be, you know, that's what might create the culture of your organization. I mean, let's just say you might come off as judgmental because you expect. You have high expectations of people, right? So that's not bad. The trouble is. So, Mike, maybe I could reframe this a little bit differently. How to make sure that everybody in your team is psychologically cared for, right. So that they will forgive you for your judgmentalness, is there's six psychological needs that everybody has as a member of a team. And if you don't meet these needs, just like you don't give them bread, food, water, you know, salary, whatever you give them at work, you know, they're going to become dysfunctional. So the six psychological needs are respectful, recognition and meaning. And then it's autonomy, personal growth and belonging. And this is. So I had a thousand employees once, and all of my managers, we taught them these six psychological needs. And then their job was to grade themselves on how well they met these needs over a period of time. And, you know, you could do it as super simple spreadsheet for yourself. But, you know, like, did I treat Mike with respect? You know, did he feel recognized for his hard work? You know, did he have personal growth? You know, did I micromanage him or not? Right. Because I want to make sure he feels a sense of autonomy. So if we're meeting all those their needs, then we'll help them be their best at work. The reverse, though, is where we really see it. If we don't meet their needs, if I don't treat Mike with respect, right? If Mike doesn't sense the meaning that of his work to some kind of a greater good, if he doesn't feel like he belongs to the team as a member of the team, then we're actually going to get. Mike is going to become dysfunctional. And we see high performers under one leader who become dysfunctional under another leader because this other leader doesn't meet their psychological needs.

It almost sounds like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, the sense of belonging, self esteem. Maslow talks about it sounds like it's all integrated in there. But does this make a person a good person? Even better. And does it make a good person if you're not delivering these retaliate and worse?

Well, both. Right. So if you don't meet their needs, they will become dysfunctional. And then they have to figure out, okay, I just, I just need to go work for a better company.

Gotcha. Gotcha let me ask you guys.

And you see, like, there's lots of things that you'll see. Like when you, like I tell people all the time, like, plot your employees based on that simple quadrant idea. And then you'll see people who, who start, like, as high performers, and then over time, they become, you know, less good at their job. Right. They become, you know, they're still nice, but they're not productive. Or they become, they still are productive, but they're not as nice, however you want to define it. And then you could say, okay, well, how did that happen to them? And did, like, maybe you made. Maybe you screwed them up.

Maybe another bad guy.

Like, how did you screw them up? Yeah, maybe you are. Because a lot of times when you, when, when people fail in your company, it's not necessarily just because of them.

Yeah, I don't want to be the bad guy. I want to blame Kelsey. Bad guys.

Yeah, well. Well, when you're trying to figure out if Kelsey's is. Is effective or not, you know, that's. This is how we could figure it out.

But, you know, but I want, you know, kind of joking, but also kind of serious. Like, I think it's very easy for someone that owns a business or a leader to deflect to others too. May as a sign. That is a sign of weak leadership, but I want to be the guilty person. So I'll deflect and say, well, it's someone else's fault.

Yes. And it is amazing how often I see leaders or people who own businesses scapegoating their employees. Yeah, right. Because, oh, I failed to do all this for you, and as a result of that, you're failing working for me, and it's all your fault.

Yeah, right. Hey, let me ask you about. Because we talked about missions earlier. You know, I've seen these cheesy, corny missions. Like, we're out to dominate the world and it's this little business and it's just inauthentic. And then you hear the classic ones like, we're out to share, to serve shareholders, and you know, what makes a good mission? Do they really work? Is it really necessary? Well, I think.

Okay, let's. If we look at. Are you familiar with the whole conscious capitalism movement?

Yes, somewhat. Yeah. So, like, for explain to Kelsey.

Yeah. And. And the listeners. So there's a group of companies. It's, you know, it's companies like 3M, Southwest Airlines, you know, Patagonia, REI, Whole Foods, etc. When those companies are very mission driven and they are very Their employees are very aligned on their core values. And those companies, over a 15 year time period from the mid, you know, from around 2000 to 2015, basically, they actually outperformed the S&P 500 by 1700 times. And the good, the good to great companies over that same time period outperformed the, the S&P 500 by 250 times. So you would have made a lot more money investing in companies that had a strong mission statement. And, and the people on the team are united by their core values. So values driven businesses are more profitable than other business. Of course you could have. You know, you might make more money by ripping everybody off, right? But that you just want sustain over 15 years because at some point you got, you got to go to jail or you'll get found out. Right? So the, the data will prove that people that are, you know, companies that are people are motivated by the mission and are united by their core values are going to make more money. So then it's how do you do it yourself? And your, your mission statement, literally, I always come back to the same question. What is, why do your customers want you to, to survive? Like, why do they need you to succeed? And your mission statement, I think should answer that question. And our. What. The company that I started and ran, you know, we, I started this business with $592 and sold it for tens of millions of dollars. And it was the industry leading organization in, you know, in our. So our mission was to share our passion for climbing. And so everybody on the staff, you know, this, first of all, it was completely memorizable. Everybody knew what the mission was because, you know, to share our passion for climbing is not that hard to memorize. And we just lived up to that all the time. And it was, you know, like, why did, you know, why did it matter to the customer? Right? Because, you know, ultimately we were building a giant cult and everybody was super passionate about it.

Yeah.

And then we had strong core values that were really, you know, we just had four simple words that were on. They were everywhere. And everybody had to memorize them. And you were hired based on, and you were fired based on them and you were promoted based on them. And so they were just, they were living, you know, completely part of our DNA. And as a result of that, we had, you know, 20% growth every single year. And as I said, you know, we turned $592 into millions, tens of millions.

Wow.

Yeah.

Wow. Chris, we, we actually got to wrap things up. This is. Time just flew by. But I do Want you stick around because we have this little dumb game we want to play with you. But before we get a members only.

Jacket, if I win.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. That's your winning. That's your winning item. Before we let you go though, from this segment, what website can people go to or what links can you share so people can learn more about what you're doing? Chris.

Yeah. Chris B. Warner dot com. So Chris B as in boy Warner dot com.

Okay, we'll have that in the show notes.

Yeah.

So everyone check it out. Chris, thank you so much for joining us for this pleasure.

Thank you, Chris.

Yeah, so I want to do a members only jacket, but that if you're really making that show shop jlone, we. We have to have a members only jacket with.

What's it say on it?

It just says Crispy Warner and everyone we give it to gets this. So your name is in there of Crispy Warner. No. I don't know. Like one of our sayings was our most recent saying. I liked it. The. This nasal ectomy or something. Oh, I have septic deformity. What's your excuse? That's the whole phrase. I have a little test for you. We have a mission here. This is for Jeremy, not for you.

Okay.

Do you know what our corporate mission is for?

For this.

For the Mike McCallos brand. Yeah.

Eradicate entrepreneurial poverty.

Nice, bro. Okay, that was a good test. If you didn't guess.

Yeah. What, are you gonna kick me out?

No, no, no. That would be my failure. It'd be my failure. Okay, so, Kal, let's first thank our corporate partner. It's nextiva Voice over IP phone system. Do you know their newest feature?

Yeah.

What is it? This is called improv. What is it?

It's not the NEX os.

No. This is the joke segment, Kelsey, for God's sake.

The fictional Linux feature.

Yeah. What's the funniest fictional feature they have now? Do you know what it is?

They have keys that you can press.

Exactly. You know, most phones, the keys get sticky and they don't move. Some phones, you can't even push the button touch ones.

Those are so weird.

Yeah. These ones you can push in and they return. They have a spring under them. So the phone button returns back to its original position.

I really love it.

Yeah. Next, it's called. It's called press me.

Yeah. The new press me feature, the extension feature is the one that impresses me.

Oh, yeah. You can do extensions now.

Yeah.

So you can call one number and then when you connect, you can dial another number.

Crazy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I really love that.

It's called extension.

Yeah, it called the numbers only system. Like you can literally navigate the nextiva phone system using only numbers. So you call a phone number, you dial a number and say gets voicemail. You can push a number to exit to go to the operator. And you can push another number when the operator answers to make it ring in her ear or his ear.

Interesting. It's very innovative.

That's the problem is they have these wires. It's an opera. Like an old school operator because unplug things.

Switchboard.

Yeah, switchboard. Switchboard. They also have NEXT os, which is the most innovative system when it comes to CRMs in the world. Check them out. Nextiva.com and guess what? Their phone system is actually pretty extraordinary too. All right, Kels, punch me real quick. So do. What did you learn today?

So much. I really love this.

I know. He was pretty cool.

I feel like I literally loved all of it.

Do you feel like when you're listening to a guy, Kim, Like, I'm gonna go hiking this weekend.

Yeah, a little bit.

Yeah, me too. Right?

Yeah, I can do that.

I'm gonna go outside now.

I like how I go up, like little hills and I'm like, oh, man, that was rough.

That must have been like climbing the Himalayas.

Definitely the oxygen level. That's the problem.

Yeah, that wasn't funny. I thought it was pretty good. No, I think that wasn't bad. I think that there's a certain point where you get. That's a certain point where you get insulted. Right. And that's what you did. So what was your takeaway, Kels?

So I'll focus on the six psychological needs that every employee has, and if you don't meet them, they become dysfunctional. I feel like that's so true. And I love that whole quadrant thing, but I know that you're going to talk about.

I should have jumped in right there. What was yours? I'm not going to.

What was the group of companies? What was the name that you, that you used to describe them? The companies with the. Who outperformed. There was a specific.

Well, good to great is the.

Yeah, but there is a. There is a. The nomenclature that he used.

The nomenclature that he used.

Yeah.

Value based businesses. He talked about.

Anyway.

Oh, the conscious capitalism.

That's it.

Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah.

So as soon as he said rei, I knew where he was going because I love them.

Yeah.

Like, they're. They're amazing at what they do and they really do Follow their mission. Even during, you know, times when. When people are inside, their slogan is opt outside because they want people to go outside and do stuff instead of staying indoors or whatever. So anyway, so why do your customers want you to succeed? I think that's amazing to keep in the back of your head when you're. When you're coming up with a mission for a company.

Yeah. Good. All right, Jay Shlomo brings it. Here's my takeaway. The chart was amazing, but one highlight I have is where do people go in times of stress? That's your psychological leader or your phantom leader, as he called it.

Yeah.

Or the organizational kind of the surreptitious leader. And I wonder if that's congruent with the title leader, that the phantom leader and the title leader the same person. If you really have things moving forward.

Yeah.

And if not, if in times of stress, people are going not to the title leader, I think the title leader needs to make change.

Or if it's counterproductive, depending on what they're coming to you for.

That's a good point, too. That's a good point, too. So I thought that was an interesting insight. We want to know, our dear listener friends, what you learned to post in the comments for the show and make sure you subscribe too. All right, Kels, do we have anything else to do before we do game time?

No. Game time.

You guys ready for a game?

Yeah.

Chris, are you still with us? I'm here. Chris, are you still there? Yeah, I just smoked a pack of cigarettes. Exactly. When you get to the top of the Himalayan oxygen line, when you get to the top of those mountain peaks, do you, like, poke, smoke? A pack.

A pack?

No. Okay. Kelsey wants to know.

Poke a smack.

Kelsey wanted to know. Could you imagine? Have you ever seen someone get to the top of mountain, just, like, light up a smoke?

Oh, yeah, yeah. The Sherpas all the time. They call it Sherpa oxygen.

No way.

Yes.

Are you kidding me?

Yeah. Yeah.

They're animals, those Sherpas.

They are animals.

It's craziness.

Get up there and like, hey, you want to smoke real quick? No. I just climbed an altitude of like 15,000ft, pal.

Yeah, this is.

You want to poke a smack while you're up here?

You want to poke a smack? All right, here we go. So, Chris, here's the game. All right? You guys are just jerks. Here's a game. Not talking to you, Chris. Talk to the other jerks. Here's how it goes. I'm gonna read off three Products. These are all entrepreneurial inventions. Two of them are actual real products. You can purchase them today. One of them is a fake. Now, Kris, just so you're clear, because everyone else knows our listeners and stuff, I write the copy for all of these just so that there is no clear differentiator between which products which you have to identify the fake one. Does that make sense?

Yeah. I'm glad that they found something for you to do at the office.

Yeah.

Oh, that's great. Mike. You're really, really spending time effectively here. And Kelsey and Jake Leblone, you're both in this game. This is the easiest one I've ever had. Like you're going to pick it out so easily or not. Yeah, right. Here we go. The gassy guy detector.

Gassy guy.

Last time you were in tight quarters, your anxiety was surely peaked. Spelled P I Q U E D. At any time someone could flatulate out a deadly cloud of rotten eggs. The problem is you wouldn't know who did it and the perpetrator could even blame you. The stress can go on for hours. That's true. And the stench can linger even longer. Our gassy guy detector utilizes our patent pending microbial concentration detection system, instantly indicating the direction of the offense. Move the sensory wand in that direction and the flashing indicator and audible buzzer will fire more rapidly as you shouldn't exist if it does get closer to the source. Studies show just having the gassy guy detector with you causes people to clamp down and stop flatuating because of the fear of getting caught. Comes in a 25 foot range detector in our brand new pocket size 10 foot range detector.

You know what that reminds me of?

What?

When I was a kid and I used to swim my uncle's pool.

Yeah?

He would say if you pee in the pool it's going to turn colors. So I'll know you pee in the pool.

He's smart. And did you pee in the pool?

No.

Exactly.

So the guys then I grew up and learned and then I peed in the pool. Oh, that's disgusting. I'm kidding. I was a joke.

That was kidding. He's not kidding. It's disgusting. Get out. Get out. All right, here's the next product. The burrito blanket. No googling any of these questions. Next time you are at your favorite Mexican restaurant, take notice of how long you stare at that delicious burrito wrap. Now imagine instead of refried beans. And did I say breens. Shit, because I put retired beans. I messed up and I tried. I fudge. Now that's so Funny, because I looked back, I knew I'm in trouble. Now imagine instead of refried beans and shredded pollock, you are the one in the burrito. Warm, comforting, and delicious. The burrito blanket is a custom round blanket that's designed to wrap you snugly. Purchase our shredded cheese bathroom towels and our sour cream throw pillows to complete your delicious Mexican man meal experience. Warning, the burrito blanket is not edible. Refried beans. All right, last product is called the. I've seen these shrimp neck pillows. They're all over the airports nowadays. Jumbo shrimp is about to be. Jumbo shrimp is about to be redefined. There are two things you want when traveling. You want to be comfortable and you want to be noticed. That's what it says. That's the copy says stand out from the standard road warrior with his jumbo pink shrimp wrapped around your neck. This luxurious pillow is of such photographic quality that besides its size is indistinguishable from the real thing. Includes a hard tail for maximum effect and can be even used to poke the person. Includes a hard tail for maximum effect and can be used to poke the person resting next to you. Finally, your comfort and cool all at once. It's very obvious this one, Chris. You're going to get the opportunity to go last in this case, so you have the upper hand. We're going to start off with Kelsey's time. It's the gassy guy detector. That's that wand. It can detect up to 25ft away unless you have the pocket sizes 10 foot range detector. You have the burrito blanket, which is perfect for refined brines. But instead of wrapping in the pollo and beans, you can now wrap yourself or Kelsey. What about the shrimp neck pillow? So it's so indistinguishable that photographs you can't tell unless you have something to juxtaposition the size. That's why when you wrap around your neck, people can see what's the. What's the fake product?

I see in my. My original statement where I feel like the gassy guy protector shouldn't exist if it does.

Right, right, right. Just. Just on morals, but I also feel.

Like the shrimp neck pillow does not have a hard tail.

Okay.

You shouldn't be able to poke people with it.

Yeah, well, I may have added the poetic license of poking people, but it has a hard time. What. What do you want to go with?

I'm going with number one gassy guy protector.

Okay. Jay Sloan.

I concur.

Guy in the name. Why couldn't it be ungendered yeah, well, I. I agree.

Okay.

The gassy guy detector. Because I think the only way that you can detect a smell, I mean, if it determines like sulfur compounds or something. But there's no smell detector.

I like your scientific.

So yeah, we're gonna go.

There must be some other textures, but.

I've definitely seen burrito. Like weird burrito blankets and things like that. Yeah.

Okay, now you two are the weirdos. Never seen that. Chris, how about you?

What colors do members only jacket? Before I take a big intellectual risk.

Okay, it comes in only one color for you, sir. Black. Black on black.

All right, well, look, anything could a methane detector doesn't sound like that's like super high tech, so. I think that's real. The burrito blanket. I'm sure there's tons of people out there with burrito fetishes, so they need these things. So I am going to go with the shrimp head neck pillow as being the fake product.

Yeah. Now let me just say one person here taught at Wharton for 16 years. Okay? Wharton. You Penn?

Yeah.

I didn't see either you two there. Okay, can I just point that out? I didn't see in the classes. You know who got it right? You two. I cannot believe it. It's not the gassy guy detector. I cannot believe it. Damn it. I did try to set you up. That was so obvious. I thought I'd fake you out. I'm sorry. This shrimp neck pillow is a real thing. I've never seen it in life, but you can. I think you can pick it up on Amazon.

I've been in and out of a lot of airports. I'm gonna have to look for this now.

Yeah, yeah, now. I don't know what this means, but every picture was an Asian model. So I think it's. It's a product comes out China and maybe doesn't leave China. You know, they do.

They have a lot of like, weird. It's probably Japanese. Like weird culture.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

There are a lot of like sushi looking things. Okay, so memorabilia.

So congratulations, Chris, you get a members only jacket, but only once. We make it and have it at our shop, which we've been working on for three years now. So just, you know, hang on tight, all right?

I'm paid.

We're just gonna surprise you one day and you're not even gonna expect. It was like 20 T shirts.

All right, we gotta get out of here. Kelsey.

Please subscribe wherever you're listening.

Yeah, please do. I mean, listen, where else do you get quality content like this? Jeremy.

Yeah, I know. It's amazing.

No, and listen to our listener base.

And you can skip over the beginning part when we ramble on. And the end.

Yeah, but that's the best part. That's what Jeremy's mom was saying.

Don't. It's really great content in the middle.

And there's good content in the middle. Yeah. It's like a sandwich. It's white bread. Great. Sandwich meat. White bread.

Yeah.

Some people like the way. Yeah. Okay. And some people realize how bad it is for you.

Perfect analogy.

Thank you. You know what else is a perfect analogy?

What?

I don't know, but go to Mike. Go to mikemotorbike.com real quick and click on get the tools. See you.

Bye.

All right.