Creating More by Doing Less with Kate Northrup

This is Mike Michalowicz, the author of Profit First. And you know the most common question I get, it's am I getting profit first? Right. Well, guess what? I'm doing a live workshop here at my offices in New Jersey. It's a two day workshop and I want to invite you. Go to profit first live.com, that's profitfirstlive.com and come to my office. Perhaps even with your bookkeeper, accountant, and master profit first. We're to going gonna make your business permanently profitable. Listen, listen, listen. You've always wanted to have a profitable business. I know you've been talking about it. I know the frustration at the end of the quarter, let alone the end of the year. When you meet with your accountant, I go, sorry, no profit again. Well, this is the year we're gonna make it happen, and I'm gonna do it with you personally. Come to the Profit first live workshop here at my offices in New Jersey. Quick little drive over from Newark Airport. I don't know if you want to tour Newark between me and you, but at least it's a quick little drive over. Yeah, right.

Real quick.

Real quick. What are you making that face for, 30 minutes? Yeah, the way you drive is probably two days, Kelsey. Well, you my dear friends, come to the Profit first live workshop. It's live. It's here. I teach it, My colleagues teach it, and we're gonna make sure you're doing profit first. Right. Maybe you've read the book, but maybe you're struggling or don't know if you're nailing it. We'll make sure you nail it and become permanently profitable. Go to profitfirstlive.com. there's dates, actually, multiple dates you can choose from. And I can't wait to meet you in person. And maybe we can crack a brewski together when you're here. You know what I'm saying? Come on. All right, let's get into the show. Strap on that seatbelt. Viewers, we're about to discuss how you can achieve more by doing less. On today's episode of Entrepreneurship, Elevated. I'm jacked up today.

Yeah, that's great.

I am pumped. You know why I'm pumped? Because you just totally are picking on me. Picking on me.

Yeah, I do it just amazing.

You up, it amps me up. I think it's worth it.

That's what I do.

I think it's worth it. People said, Mike, you were so unam.

What?

Kelsey wasn't here, and even yesterday, I just wasn't back in the group. You were here, but I wasn't in the group. I wasn't amped. Now with your constant nagging and picking and making fun of me and hurting my feelings, I feel amped.

You're welcome.

All right. I'm throwing it to you. Oh, by the way, I'm Mike McAllos, in case you didn't know, the one who gets picked on. I'm an author on a mission to eradicate entrepreneurial poverty. We're talking about the finances. We're talking about the time you spend just grueling, doing that grueling work you're doing and sacrificing time with your family and friends. We fix that on this show. I'm joined in studio by the nitpicker. Kelsey.

Hello, friend. It's so good to have you. You can find us on iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or any podcaster anywhere. But don't forget to leave us a review and subscribe.

How's your car doing, that Subaru of yours? It's.

It's okay.

Yeah. Oh, really?

I was having some troubles.

It's brand new. Didn't you buy brand new?

No, it's used.

Okay. What kind of trouble are you having?

First it, like, felt like it wasn't kind of like going out of gear. It felt like going out of gears. Yeah. I put new brakes on it, and it's fine now. So it was, like, really fluky. But anyway, I had to stick to a dealer, and they basically did nothing and gave it back to me. Now the key gets stuck in the ignition.

Are you kidding me?

No.

It's so silly.

I'm. No.

And it's not the steering wheel.

I'm no mechanic, but if it feels like it's not going out of gear and they fix it by putting on brakes, that doesn't sound like the solution.

Well, they didn't even do that. I did that because I needed brakes. And then after I got the brakes done, it fixed the problem. Yeah.

So we. They probably on the behind the scenes said, oh, we have a deer disengagement. A gear disengagement issue.

Well, it is like an actual issue with the Subarus.

So we have a Chevy. My wife has a Chevy Traverse. Oh, my God. This. We bought it new.

Yeah, it was just last year.

So we have a gear issue, too. Yeah, just last year gear. It's brand freaking new still.

Yeah, you will.

It's automatic. You put it in drive and you rev it, and it's like you're in neutral, and all of a sudden it Just kicks in. The car lurches.

Mine does that too.

What a piece. The other thing is, we're driving and all of a sudden the car will start shuddering. If you're accelerating up a hill, an incline. So we brought it in. They're like, no computer shows, no problems. There's a problem, right? Nope, no problem. Like there's a problem.

Yeah. And they charge you for the diagnostic for it to do nothing.

I wonder if Subaru is owned by Chevy or vice versa.

Yeah.

So I guess there's two sponsors we'll never get. So, Kels, you got a shout out for us.

Oh, groovy, baby.

From who?

So this comes from wee bum's mom.

Who?

Wee bum's mom.

How do you spell that? Like W E, B U M S.

W E E. Like wee. Oh, we wee bums.

Okay, I got it.

So I'm assuming she not your run of the mill business podcast. Great guests, great information, and great fun. I've never laughed this hard while listening to a podcast. Not a good thing. While driving.

Dangerous.

The guests are interesting and varied, and I've gone on to read many of the books. Thanks, Mike. Love the banter. And Kelsey's laugh is infectious.

It is infectious. So, dude, where was I? I don't know. Some speaking engagement the week before you returned, and someone came up to me like, I just love your podcast. I'm like, that's awesome. But I test people because, you know, it's like when someone comes like, I love your book. I'm like, oh, which one? They're like, you know, the ones you write.

Yeah.

Am I. Do you have a favorite? I guess. Yeah, that one. You know, like, okay, you don't have to placate me. So I'm like, oh, you love the podcast. Like, what do you like about it, Kelsey? I'm like, ah. Like, what? What's the favorite part about Kelsey? The way she laughs. Your laugh is infectious.

Well, I'm glad people appreciate it because I think it's awful.

Well, I think it's awesome. And I think when you laugh, you guys stay in the microphone. You instantly pull away from it. Yeah, no, it is the best laugh ever. You know we have sponsors that support the show.

We do. We have a sponsor that supports the show.

Why do we not seek sponsors?

Kelsey, I actually do have a call next week.

Oh, do you really?

Yeah.

Who? Oh, can't say it. Okay, who is?

I don't know.

I don't know. Why not say, who is it? Who's the potential sponsor?

It's Process Street.

Who Are they, what do they do?

So they're like a task management tool. So you can create checklists and it's interactive, collaborative. It's really a great tool. I love that.

They sound amazing.

Yeah. So it's great for clockworking, creating your systems, putting in a place and then you can.

They are the best company ever. I, I, they, they have my endorsement. Unless, you know, sponsors and they suck. And they really suck.

No.

Who Sponsors for what? Oh, the coffee company.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I stopped drinking their stuff. They haven't sponsors again.

You know, it was a one time agreement.

Oh, was it?

Yeah.

Oh, I thought it was a lifetime. Eight o' clock coffee. Best coffee ever. Or not, I don't know. Depends if they sponsor us. But nextiva is a voice over IP phone system. We'll tell you more about them a little bit. And by the way, I don't know if you know this.

I don't know, do I?

Nextiva, you hear what they do? What happened? Do you know? Have you heard the news?

I don't think I've heard it.

I'm on their board.

Kelsey, that's amazing.

I'm a board member. It's a non paid advisory board position. It's unofficial. I had to pay for my own plane tickets and I'm missing the dinner. That's the only benefit. But I'm on the board. I cannot wait. It's a full day meeting after dinner, like there's a dinner and then the next day is the full day meeting.

Yeah.

I cannot wait to throw down my pen and say this is not how we're gonna do that or whatever. I don't know what a board member supposed to do. I don't even know what a board member supposed to do.

Okay, I guess we'll find out.

You know what a board member shouldn't do is work more. They should work less. And that's why we're talking. That's why we brought on Katie North. Katie, Jesus, you get so excited I skipped Kate Northrup. Kate Northrup. This is why we brought her on. It's because it's about doing less.

Yeah.

Kate Northrup is an entrepreneur, best selling author and mother who teaches a revolutionary approach to time management that allows ambitious women and men to light up the world without bringing themselves out, burning themselves out. Jesus. Can you write better copy for me? Her work has been featured on the Today Show, Yahoo Finance, Glamour and more. Kate's built a seven figure business with her husband while raising two of their young daughters in Maine.

I love Maine. You love me too.

I love Maine. I got. I'm kind of curious about. I have a question about Maine. I'm going to ask a little bit, but with no further ado and no further mess ups from me. Kate, welcome to our show.

Thanks for having me.

I know. Okay, I'll mess up, like, left and right. What part of Maine are you in?

I'm outside of Portland. I'm in a little town called Yarmouth.

Oh. So I was just up in Portland. My wife and I were looking to. We had a plan. We said we're gonna find the best city that we want to live in and start going city by city. And the first city we visited was Portland. And we went to one of your fabled restaurants right on the water. And oh my God, the food was unbelievable. Lobster.

Where did you go?

Yeah, I can't remember the name. That's why I said tables Restaurant. I can't remember the name. It's like one of those, like, hole in the wall fishery.

Very notorious.

All locals, they serve key lime pie at the end. Is that a good hint?

I don't know. But we have so many good restaurants. I do, I just eat all the food here. It's the best part. People think the best part is the ocean, but the best part is the food.

Yeah.

So you had this crazy realization while at one of your favorite restaurants in Maine that you could do less, yet increase your revenue. And that sounds totally bass ackwards to most entrepreneurs, including myself. Like, how can you do less and make more? That makes no sense.

Well, this happened by accident because what happened is I was really tired during my first pregnancy. Like, and tired sounds like I'm just like, whiny and lazy, but I literally could not work for more than like three hours a day. And prior to that point in my life, I just, you know, I worked like 50, 60 hours a week. I was an entrepreneur. I just kind of, like, worked whenever I wasn't, you know, sleeping or occasionally going to the movies. And I just couldn't during this pregnancy. And so I cut my work hours in half. I just was forced to. And then first year of parenthood, we had a sick baby. She didn't sleep. We only had 10 hours of childcare a week. And we sat down with our accountant. And at the end of that first year of parenthood, and so now we'd been in a year plus nine months, however many, however long that is, of working significantly less than we ever had before, less than half. And we had made the same amount of revenue. And then I was like, well, what the hell was I doing my whole life if I could have worked half as much and made the same amount of money? So then I just went backwards and looked at, well, okay, if I could codify what we did, you know, without the pregnancy and the sick baby, then perhaps we would really be onto something. And so that's where do less came from.

Okay, so it's a powerful realization. Is that a little bit demoralizing though to realize you spent all this time working 50, 60 hour weeks?

Yes, because I. There are so many other things. I mean, I love my work, I really do. And there's so many other things I love to do that I was under this illusion that I didn't have time for.

Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. So you have this realization. You then codify how you actually pulled it off. So what did you discover? How do you pull that off?

Well, there's a couple of things. The biggest one that I think is, is nothing new, but people aren't practicing it, which is the practice of identifying the things that only you can do in your business and then being vigilant and diligent to only doing those things and either letting go of or delegating the rest. And of course those things are your 20% that gets you 80% of the results. But we've all been doc indoctrinated by our culture to think that busy means valuable. So we just keep doing all the other things too because we're like afraid that God is going to look down and see us not in motion or something and that we're going to get in trouble. We're just like indoctrinated to be busy as valuable. And so I think that actually is the downfall of entrepreneurs is actually our cultural programming about action.

So you know, I remember studying was the puritans that came to the US the puritanical like work is good. Is this true? I don't know your exposure to the rest of the world. But is this, you know, kind of grind and hustle all the time mentality? Is this a global phenomenon or is.

This more in the us it depends country by country. So the people leading the charge for doing less but getting the same or better results are actually in Europe a little bit, in Mexico actually, interestingly, but there's some interesting data where there's a company in Sweden and actually Sweden as a, as a whole is moving towards a six hour workday because what shows is we get just as much done in six hours as we do in eight hours. Plus employees are happier, they have more well being. They have more work, life balance. They get as much done, so the company makes just as much money, but they make even a little bit more because they have less absenteeism and happier people do better work.

Mm, that's fascinating.

They get sabbaticals, like, or they get months off during the year. When I was traveling, it was like, all Europeans that I met. There's no Americans that I met.

There was. You were the American. That was a sabbatical for too long.

But I'm the anomaly.

You're definitely the anomaly, yeah. Because we're just so obsessed that we're supposed to be working all the time. And I wrote about, in my book, another book called the Five Biggest Regrets of the Dying by Bronnie Ware. And she talks about that, you know, one of the biggest regrets of dying people. She was a hospice nurse and was around hundreds and hundreds of people on their deathbed. One of the biggest regrets is, I wish I had not worked so much. And not. One of the five biggest regrets is, I wish I had gotten more done. But we live our days as though the point is to get more done. And the truth is, we are never going to get it all done. Like, we're never going to get it all done. So we might as well just live our lives.

So how come that realization happens when you're in your deathbed and not today? And how do we make it happen today? Like, don't work more as a visceral change in our emotion?

Well, I think unfortunately for a lot of people, tragedy is what makes them realize whether it's a cancer diagnosis, losing a loved one, you know, an illness in themselves. My husband got really, really sick last year. It wasn't a terminal diagnosis by any means, but he was kind of out of life for nine months. And in our lives, it was very much this moment of, oh, like, if we don't have our health and if we're not present with each other and with our kids, what are we doing? And so I think we have to, you know, I think that's why listening to other people's stories is so important. Reading memoirs, watching documentaries, paying attention so that we can be reminded, so that, you know, we can't possibly live all the trajectories and all the journeys of all the people, but we can listen to other people so that we can learn from their lessons, learn from their experiences.

So good.

Yeah, that's a great insight. So, okay, so in this do less mentality, you first had, you know, identify what you're really good at. That 20%, outsource the rest or, or even abandon it. I think.

Abandon it. I am a flash and burn of the to do list. Because there's this idea that the more we do, the more successful we will be. But anybody who keeps just trying to add projects to their plate knows that that's actually not true.

Yeah.

And then of course we have to define what a success even mean. But that's kind of a whole other conversation. But, but yeah, like I love just saying, you know what, we had this project on the calendar. We're just not doing it. I just canceled a promotion in our company. It was going to be a four day promotion and I was like, oh, it's not going to be a big deal. That's the kiss of death for me. Anytime I say, oh, it's not going.

To be a big deal.

It's going to be so easy. That's how we know. Nope.

Yeah, right. There's that five minute mentality. Oh, we can get that done. Five minutes. It's so easy.

It does.

Because it's so distracting from the important things. Right. So there's the Eisenhower matrix of the urgent and important tasks and the non urgent, non important. Right. And we never get to the non urgent important stuff, which is like writing the book or working on your, you know, your body of work. Like your big game changing idea. Because we're too busy using our inbox as our to do list and just trying to make everybody else happy. So yeah, so I'm big on canceling things and just slashing and burning, but also delegating.

How do you identify the items that should be slashed and burned?

Yes, this is an excellent question. So I'm really big on just on intuition and using, using our own inner sense of like what lights us up. I really believe that our emotions and our bodies have access to processing great levels of information that our mind cannot. And so when something lights us up, when we get excited about it, I think we can trust that. So I recommend looking at your list and circling the things you're excited about and then also meaning keeping those and then also drawing a line through the things that you look at the, you look at them and you're like, that's, that's good information. Because listen, I don't care if some other seven figure business owner like rocked it with their automated webinar system. If you look at that on your list and you feel super drained by it, just doing that project is going to drain your energy and make you less able to do all the other Things that you also need to be doing. So it's not just that isolated thing.

Sorry I had to give you. That was good. That was juicy. That's juicy. Because, Kate, so many people like, oh, but you gotta do Facebook ads. That's what. It works.

No, you don't.

We do not run Facebook ads. Right now in my company, Million dollar company, we're not running a single Facebook ad and we haven't for six months.

Oh, my God, Kate.

Because it just wasn't like it. We was. It was draining us. Will we go back to it at some point? Yeah, but we didn't have the bandwidth and it was. And trying to have the bandwidth when we didn't was sucking the lifeblood of all these other important projects that if we just did less but gave it our all, we get better results. So I, I think about it like that I am a. I am a neophyte gardener. Like just, just at the very beginning. And I think about, like when I'm trying to spray off my patio with my hose and if I have it on the fine mist setting, there's no detritus or dirt that's moving. But if I have it on the power spray setting, in two seconds, all of it's gone. So we need to focus our energy and our efforts on a few things. Do them really well, like the power spray setting on our hose if we're trying to clean off the patio or the sidewalk and stop being the fine mist. Because if you're the fine mist, everything just gets soggy and bogged down and heavy and doesn't move.

Over my 12 years of being an author devoted to the small business entrepreneur, I've discovered the biggest challenge. And you know what it is? It's profitability. That's why I wrote Profit first and that's why I'm now hosting a two day workshop here at my offices in Boonton, New Jersey, where I will teach you and my team with will teach you how to become permanently profitable. Go to profit first live.com right now to get details again, profitfirstlive.com find the dates that work for you and I'll see you here at my office. The most expensive tomato I've ever eaten. It was from my own garden. I spent, I think I spent about $1,000 of getting, you know, gear, equipment, setting this thing up. It yielded one barely edible tomato. And I'm like, everyone is better family, better effing enjoy this thing. This cost is a thousand dollars.

I'm right.

Wait, so.

So, okay, so I understand now Of. Of crossing out what you don't like, what doesn't resonate with you, focusing on what you do. But there is this mentality, and maybe this goes back to the earlier comment. We're talking about the cultural beliefs, but I'm hearing it promoted more aggressively than ever. This hustle and grind mentality.

Yeah.

Like, if you want something, you got to push through. And if it's hurtful or if it's distracting or you don't like it, that's no excuse. Don't be a weakling. Push through it.

So that, I mean, that's true. Right. Like, let's be honest, there are things we need to do as entrepreneurs that aren't fun. I mean, I do things every day that I don't feel like doing.

Yeah.

Because they're, they're just part of the deal. But there's a difference between doing something that makes you uncomfortable because you're growing or doing something that's just like a little bit of a drag. But, you know, you kind of have to do it. Like. Like taxes. I don't want to pay taxes. I don't want to deal with that. But we do it because it's just part of the deal. That being said, there are things that are just. Here, here's. Here's an example. It's a simple example, but in our company, we had this whole process for creating branded social media graphics. So our designer would. I would write the copy, then our designer would design them, then I would need to approve them, then they got scheduled, then I would need to write the actual copy for the. For the caption and just like a whole freaking thing. And then when we looked at analytics, we realized what performed the best was when I took random selfies and like, just wrote the comment on the fly, which took me 30 seconds, and I didn't have to pay anybody, versus having all of those. That process and all the people and the paying of the people and all the stuff. And so you often, often, oftentimes. And it was a drag. I will tell you, every time I did that process, I was a little bit annoyed. And so it was so nice to realize the thing that was easy was actually the thing us the best results. But here's the thing. We've been raised to believe that it's not possible that the thing that's easy could get you the best results, because we have this deeply embedded, as you mentioned, puritanical belief that hard work is inherently valuable. Hard work is not inherently valuable. No one is throwing a parade for the person who Worked the hardest on the other side after we die. I don't know what happens after we die, but I don't think it's like a hard work parade. And sacrificing our well being and the people we love and the relationships we love and our joy at the altar of hard work for its own sake, I think is a ridiculous waste of our lives.

I still love hard work parade. Have you, have you heard of this thing called Occam's Razor?

I have, yes. I learned about it through Tim Ferriss.

Okay. So I just started studying this. I don't know where I heard about it first. I believe, and tell me if this is not correct, Kate, but I believe the basic premise of Occam's Razor is that usually the simplest solution is the best solution to a scenario. Is that your interpretation of it?

I think so. I would have to do more research, but I love everything about that philosophy. There's also another writer who I follow named Adrienne Maree Brown. And in her brilliant book Emergent Strategy, which is actually about social justice work, she uses something called biomimicry, which is looking at our natural world to create solutions for our human problems. And one of the phrases that just about knocked me on the floor that I read in her book is birds coast when they can. And really this whole philosophy, if we look at nature, there's no waste, right? There's no waste. There's no. Like the bees aren't doing extra work to prove their worth, they're just getting the honey done and then, I don't know, resting on a bell on a rose petal. They don't.

Right.

And so I think we really need to remember we as humans, we, our bodies are made out of nature. We are also nature. We are animals. And. And what? Rather than look towards each other and our crazy obsession with more as a culture, we need to look actually towards nature, which is where we came from to, you know, birds coast when they can. Yeah. Are they trying to get somewhere? Are they trying to survive? Absolutely. But when available, they coast so they can save their energy for when they can't coast, which is inevitable. I think life is hard anyway. We don't have to make it harder.

Huh. Tell me, give me some more tips from your book. Do less.

Yeah. So I really love the concept of timing and that we can do the same activity, but the timing of it really matters in how well we will do it and how. And how much time it will take. So I talk about women's cycles a lot, specifically the menstrual cycle and how we have these four distinct hormonal phases throughout the month that make our brain more poised to do certain types of work. So that's something for women to pay attention to, really aligning the type of work you're doing throughout the month with your phase. So and actually the US Women's national team just did this to win the World Cup. They actually used tracking their menstrual cycles and changing their training accordingly to. Yeah. To get that, whatever that win. I don't even, I'm not like a sports person, so I don't even know.

Well, they won the World Cup. They won the World Cup. That's it.

They did get the World Cup. So anyway, so that's, that's for women but for, for all people just noticing how you feel throughout the day and then scheduling the things that you are the best suited for at the times of day that make the most sense. So for example, if I try to create content in the afternoon, like around 4, I'm toast and I suck at it and it's not good, it's not compelling and it takes me way longer. But if I wake up with my coffee and at 8am I can jam out a thousand words in 30 minutes because it's just that's the time of day that's the best. And so this requires us to be in conversation with ourselves and pay attention throughout the day. Like all hours are not made equal. Time is actually not linear. Time is much more relative than that. Einstein's theory of relativity proved that time is relative. The experience of time is relative to an object's mass and speed. And we are those objects perceiving time. And so we have to notice like when are my best hours of the day and how can I pay my, myself first with my time? By doing those non urgent important tasks that really move the needle in the long term, in the best hours of the day. And then, and then give your worst hours of the day to your email inbox and all the people who are asking you for stuff because they don't deserve your best.

But it's kind of hard to avoid that email. I, I get those emails back. Occasionally I'll email someone that says I only check email twice a day.

You know, like that's a nice idea.

12 noon and midnight. And then I send this in 8 in the morning. The person responds at 8:01. So they're not even following it. Yeah, not even following their, their nonsense thing. So how do we really avoid the distraction of email and stuff like That.

I think it's just, I mean super simple. I'm P.S. like I'm working on this all the time. So I'm. By no means you wouldn't come.

So you're a human being.

Yeah. You wouldn't come to my office and be like, wow, she is, you know, she's like an alien. A super simple. I actually just put my phone in my desk drawer while I'm working because if I see it, I pick it up. I just do.

Yeah.

And so I put it in my desk drawer. I don't have any beeps or notifications or flashy thingies that come up. So I just have. Those are the things that work really well for me. Literally not seeing my phone and then turning off all notifications. And I think if we just did that it would make a huge difference. I also think we train people what to expect from us. So. So, you know, nobody's expecting me. My people in my life know I'm not going to respond to their email in five minutes and it might be a couple days. And I've told them if I don't respond in like a week, just ping me again because it's not my priority, it's their priority. And like doesn't mean I don't love them, doesn't mean I don't value them. It's just not my priority. And I'm not that good at email.

Yeah, I've trained people that I won't pronounce their names correctly. Katie Northrop.

I'm like, Steve, it's so funny because only my family calls me Katie. So it was really funny when you said that.

Well, I'm part of your family now. Yeah. Yeah. One interesting thing that you shared off air was you said that men and women experience time different and I thought that was fascinating. What's the insights you can share around that?

So I spoke about it a little bit earlier which is that women, hormonally, we have a 28 day ish cycle. Men, hormonally, your hormones cycle every 28, 24 hours. Now of course time has been set up for men obviously clearly know hi. That's our culture. And so as women it's really important to know and as men too that we do have. So women have been berated for being unpredictable and hysterical and different all the time. We are very predictable. Just over 28 days, not over 24 hours. So it for all of us to understand this. Also for a man, your testosterone is peaking from like 6am to 2 in the afternoon. Those are your Best hours. And so for men too who are into the biohacking and really getting into that relationship with their bodies, it's important to know that. And then for women it's important to know, okay, when are you in your follicular phase, when are you in your ovulation phase? Those are gonna be your more high energy outward times. That's the time to batch your PODC podcast interviews, that's the time to do your speaking gigs if possible. And then in the other phases and for men, this, this comes down to sort of the afternoon, evening hours for most men. Now some men insist to me that they do their best work between like 11pm and 4am And I'm like, I think you've just been over tired for years. But that's, yeah, that's my own opinion. Anyway, it's, those are the times, like those lower energy times, those are still really valuable times. But that's the time for research, for reflection, you know, for, for going inward, for doing like a post game analysis on your launch. And so if we can organize for a man over 24 hours a day what you are best for at each time, and then for a woman over 28 days, what she's best for at a given time, it really helps us amp up our productivity and more importantly, not get burned out. Because when you do the right thing at the right time, when you're so well suited for it, it's actually really energizing compared to if you're trying to do it when it's not the right time, then it's really draining. Then you're not available really for other things in your life.

Super interesting. For women, they have a 28 day cycle, but they also have a 24 hour cycle within the 28 days.

You know, I think we do, I think it's much more affected by light and the sun. Right. So that's the solar cycle versus the lunar cycle. I do think both are happening at the same time. I'm absolutely way more energized in the. That's when our cortisol spikes. It's the reason we get out of bed in the morning, all of us. And I mean some of us, ideally all of us are getting out of bed in the morning. And so. But there are some people who are like, no, no, no, I'm definitely not a morning person. So you just have to know that about yourself and organize accordingly. And I think what's really important is to stop trying to fit yourself into the ideal that was set up by the Industrial revolution. Like we haven't changed our assumptions about the workday since factories came on board. And it's not based in data. The 40 hour work week is not based in real data. We just all are ascribing to it because that's what's been done for so long. I think it's really important, as entrepreneurs who do, in theory have some control over their schedules, to rewrite the rules for what works for you and your body. And that's what's really important because we've been taught to work as though we don't have bodies for our whole lives. And I think it's critical to bring our bodies on board to support our best work instead of trying to work in spite of them.

Super fascinating insights.

Yes.

Wow. Kate, or as I call you, Katie. Thank you for this. Where can our listeners get your book? Do less and where can they learn more about you?

The book is available anywhere books are sold and you can head over. There are some bonuses and goodies you can get with it@Katenorthrup.com book and I hang out on Instagram the most as a social media platform. AtoNorthrup. But certainly my website, katenorthrup.com is a great place to connect as well.

Kate Northrup.

Awesome.

There you have it. Kate, thank you so much for joining us today.

Thank you.

All right, Kels, do you understand the routine by now? Do you know what we do now?

Yeah.

What do we do? You're gonna mess it all up.

Talk about our takeaways.

Don't look at your notes.

I don't have notes, remember?

Yeah. So we talk about our takeaways.

Yeah, we talk about our takeaways. You talk about our sponsor.

Yeah.

We don't have a game, correct?

That's correct.

We don't have a listener. Mail.

Yeah.

So then we leave.

There you go. There you go. The energy behind that was amazing. So then we leave. So the first. Yeah, we're gonna do all those things. First we are gonna talk about our sponsor. You know who it is?

I think I have an idea.

It's nextiva. Sexiva. You know, nextiva's at a pivotal point in their growth. I think they're. I think they're the number three largest voiceover IP phone provider.

Did you make that up?

No, no, I'm not making this up. I think it's. There's a thing called at&t. There's. I think Vonage. Vonage, yeah. And I think nextiva's number three.

That's what Jackson's dad works for. Vonage. You know?

Yeah, no, no more. He. Actually, there's a little behind the scenes story. He may be looking to go somewhere else. And I'm like, why don't you go to next Diva?

Yeah.

Have we talked to Jackson? What happened to him, our intern?

I don't know. You would know more than I, your friend who.

Just because we're a weird company, I think everyone needs to know. So we do a daily huddle, and it ends up with personal updates. Is this appropriate to share?

Yeah, I feel like we've shared it before, actually.

Okay, so we go around and Mike, how's we been up to a personal update? So I mowed my lawn yesterday. Great. Mike, what's your personal update? I'm biking. Yeah, yeah, whatever Jackson ever goes. Jackson's last one. Personal update. He's like, no, no, it's like, oh, I got one. Like, what is it? Oh, my dad almost got murdered last night. And. And then that's it. And we're like, what? He's like, my dad. There was attempted murder at my dad last night.

He was stabbed seven times.

Yeah. Random. Yeah, he. And he was in his. He was vacationing in Breckenridge, Colorado. He is sleeping. All of a sudden, his door gets kicked open.

Not even vacationing on a work retreat with seven other people in the house or eight other people in the house.

Yeah. And they're like. The door gets kicked open and this guy's like, I'm gonna kill you. And Ted, the. The victim is like, hey, guys, cut it out. He's like, no, man, I'm gonna kill you. And this guy who we presume was on some serious drugs, comes in with a knife and starts stabbing Ted. And Ted, with no weapons, kicked his ass. Well, not really. He ran away, but he. He got the guy down through this totally violent scene and ran away. And survived.

Yeah.

And it's a horrible story. The odd or funny thing was just how Jackson delivered it, like, in the hot. I was like, yeah.

So strange.

Yeah. Someone tried to kill my dad last night. And, you know, and. And I mowed the lawn too, so. All right, so next Diva. How do we get there?

Vonage.

Vonage, yeah. So next, he was a voiceover IP phone system. We. You know, there's a saying that Kelsey says, like, hey, if you don't want to be murdered, I would go with Next Diva. Right? You say something all the time. Yeah, it's kind of weird. It's kind of inappropriate. But, Kelsey, what did you learn today from Katie Northrop?

Oh, I love this so much.

It Was a long one.

It was really too long. I just feel like it's spot on. Like, we have these ingrained beliefs around timing and around work that are so arbitrary. Like, they're not based in anything besides this industrial work period that doesn't exist anymore. And the types of businesses that we have aren't relevant. And we're in a place and time with technology and, you know, all of these tools that we have, and we just have more wealth than previously, that we can seriously shift the way that we work and the quality of life that we have and the way that we treat ourselves and each other. It's just silly. Just silly.

It is silly. There was a. I was listening to Traction on my bike, and there's a little vignette. And he says. The author says he. He interviews a woman who's making a ham dinner or something for a group people, and she cuts off the back of the ham. And he says, why you do this? She goes, well, that's what we've always done. Well, it happened at this party event, whatever, the mother of the mother, the grandmother, whatever was there. And she goes, why do you cut off the back of the ham? This author says. And the grandmother says, that's the way we've always done it.

Yeah.

It so happens that the great grandmother was there too. And the author goes to the great grandmother and said, why do you cut off the back of the ham? And she says, when I was making the ham, the pan we had wasn't big enough, so I had to cut off the back.

Ah, right. Yep.

And there it is. And it just becomes this ingrained.

Yeah.

It's like, oh, that's the way you're supposed to do it, or way we do it.

Yeah, I know.

So I thought that was really fascinating insight. It's tough to be the bold entrepreneur who challenges this belief and says, you know what? We're gonna be one of the companies that goes to six hours because everyone else is doing eight hours or whatever. It's hard to be the first to do that.

I think Adrian's team does five hour work days, or at least that's what she.

Adrian Dorsen?

Yeah. Yeah.

We, you know, we have a lot. All of our staff, besides you and me are part time, right?

Yeah.

Should we go to 6 hour? I don't know. Maybe we should try it.

We can.

I mean, you take Fridays off. That works pretty well for you too, right?

Yeah, it's amazing.

But that's. That's a shorter day. I don't know. But, you know, As I say, I.

Have my Parkinson's law to a degree. I mean, Right. Like, in my head, I always think I'm gonna stay till five, Right. But, yeah, if I didn't stay till five, would I get less work done? You know, would I? Or am I just, like, responding to those emails?

Yeah, yeah.

As they come in, as opposed to just waiting and banging them out the next morning, like, you know?

Yeah. And maybe it points back to this slash and burn on the list. Like, there's major stuff we're doing that we don't need to do.

Yeah, for sure.

Oh, my gosh, she has my head spinning. You know, I also liked was that timing dictates our productivity. I really like that. The cycle. Yeah. It's not having on your to do list. It's when you do something that's important and it's the timing of when you do it. And it's different for men and women. I thought that was freaking fascinating.

I love that in thinking about the team, and I think even beyond just the sort of timing, but just understanding that each person is nuanced in their best work productivity, actions and kind of just giving space to figure out a flow or ways to work that are more effective than what we just do because it's rote and we just do it automatically, you know?

Can I say that Katie gave us the most revolutionary insights I've heard in a while?

Yeah. Yeah, you can say that.

Katie. Is that appropriate now? I feel like. I feel like we're best friends.

Well, I feel like you've done it from the start, so why change now?

Is that awkward when someone does that? So once a friend of mine introduced me to his wife. His name, her name. He calls her Albo. Her name's Allison. He calls her Albo. He goes, hey, Albo. Here's Mike. I'm like, hey, Albo. And she said nothing about it. And everyone calls her Alison. I'm like, what's going on? Oh, that's her nickname. And now I'm like, oh, I'm giving creepy husband.

I do find it uncomfortable when somebody or talks about somebody with a nickname, and then when you meet them, you don't know what's appropriate to call them. Like, yeah, because I like the more familial. Like, I like, people are comfortable to call me whatever they feel like calling me, you know, but other people don't feel that way. Like, there are some people who are Michael and hate to be called Mike.

Oh, that's, you know, Christopher. Yeah. I'm one of the people you can call me whatever you want.

Yeah, me too.

It really doesn't faze.

Call me Chelsea, Casey, Katie, whatever.

Chelsea. I think I called you Chelsea for a long time.

Yeah. Or Casey.

Casey. Yeah, listen, I do. When someone calls me Mark, I'm like, okay, it's actually Mike, but I'm not offended by that. But. But that bothers me. But someone says Michael. Mike, Mikey. Mikey. I don't freaking care. But there are some people I know, a person I'm very close to that he only goes by Michael. And if you call him Mike, it's like, dude, please don't offend me. Like that. The only name that I think should not be permitted to be modified is Chris. Dick. Oh, what the hell was that?

I just don't understand why Richards would ever go by Dick. Like, there's so many other alternatives.

I go with. Okay, I'll now give you two. So that's one for sure. But I think it's a runner up.

Oh, are you gonna say Topher?

I hate that.

I hate that too.

I hate when Christophers go by Topher and then are offended that you didn't call him Topher. Dude, like, no one calls me Eichel. You know? Like, this is wrong.

I'll call you Kale from now on.

Kale. Hey, what's up, Kale? Oh, thanks, Les. No, you'll be Cal C. Thanks. Steak. Thanks. Steak. All right, we're going off the rails here. All right. Cause that's all we got for today. Oh, do. And we have no, nothing else, right?

No, nothing else. But lots of food for thought, right? We're leaving on a high note.

Yeah, it was a lot of food for thought. Kelsey, what can people do right now in this moment?

Please subscribe, rate, and review us whatever podcast you're listening to.

Yeah, we'd love that. Love for you to share a show with some other folks. And you know what? Why don't we get together, me and you. Kelsey will be here at First Live, our workshop. If you want to drive profitability in your business permanently and you want to make sure you're doing it right, come to our workshop. It's a two day workshop here in Boonton, New Jersey. Break some bread together. We'll learn a lot together. Go to profitfirstlive.com. oh, and one more thing. Go to Mike Michalowicz.com or mikemotorbike.com, click on get the tools. I'm gonna hook you up with some free stuff. All right, we'll see you later.

Bye.