David Meerman Scott: Tapping Into Fandom

I see you out of the corner of my eye, Kelsey, just doing the dance over. That's awesome. And here's why. I don't see out of the corner of my eye. I don't see you with your line of credit. Have you ever worried about having cash on hand? You may have. Well, now you can get a line of credit from our friends over at Financing Solutions, which is the ultimate cash backup plan. Because it costs nothing to get it. You only pay when you use it. As a loyal listener to entrepreneurship, elevated, fscreditline.com is offering a $400 free credit if you use the term Mike or the word Mike. So go to fscreditline.com, put in Mike. You get 400 bucks on the spot, and now you have your backup emergency credit line should you need it. All right, Kels, it's time to. This is what you two came up with. It's time to strap on your rough tool. You guys are good. You guys are a good team. Strap on that rough tool of yours because we are about to discover a brand new book out there called Phenocracy and. And how to turn your customers into major fans. You're about to learn about that and so much more on today's episode of Entrepreneurship Elevated. Bring the energy. Bring it. All right, my friends, you know who this is? This is Mike Michalowicz. I'm the author of a few books out there. My brand new one's called Fix this Next. It's on pre order now, of course, Profit first, Clockwork, and others. And I'm on a mission. A mission to eradicate entrepreneurial poverty. The world thinks you're wildly successful. Successful, yet we're struggling. Well, we're gonna fix that on this episode like we do every episode. We're gonna fix it by finding you fans. You already have them. You just got to convert your customers into those raving fans about to discover that and so much more. But first, I want you to discover our team here. Kelsey Ayers.

Welcome to the show, friend. Thank you for listening to us. And please don't forget to subscribe wherever you're listening.

And Jacob Loner.

Hey, what's up?

So you two are sitting in here and you're having a hard conversation, like a hearty conversation about a real difficult topic, which I didn't know was pancreatic cancer and how it affected relatives of family, right? So you're sitting there, Kelsey, and all I hear is something cancer, right? And then I hear Jeremy say, patrick Swayze had that. So I Decide I'm starving to death. I grab my chips and I start eating away. And I'm like, so tell me about this cancer. Right?

And a microphone that's amplified. No, stop doing that.

It tastes good. These are the sweet potatoes.

They're good.

So I started eating.

I realized, oh, dear listener friend, I'm so sorry.

I realized, Kelsey. I realized there's certain times when it's appropriate to ask for food and not appropriate.

Yeah.

And when you're talking about a third party that no one knows, it's appropriate to pass the chips. But if it's someone that is your family, like.

Like how you're rating people's values.

No, no, this is just. This is socially acceptable versus not acceptable. You know, this is true. If. If you came in here and I'm like, my father's passed away, you wouldn't say, hey, Mike, can you pass the chips? Conversely, if I said, I'm sorry, Patrick Swayze has passed away, oh, my God, we just lost the show. Hold on, you guys there? We just lost you guys. You still there? All right, get the roll going. We're just going to continue the conversation. We just got to make sure we get this edit in the show. Okay. All right, we don't see you rolling. Okay, now we do. All right, so we're gonna go back into it. So, Kels, what I discovered is there is a time to ask for someone to pass the chips and a time you shouldn't. So if I. If you came in and Jeremy and I are having a conversation, I'm like, my father, he just passed away yesterday or whatever, and you came in say, hey, Mike, can you pass the chips? Very uncomfortable. But if I said, oh, Patrick Swayze passed away yesterday, and then you said, hey, can you pass the chips? But, yeah, sure. It's like, nothing has. But you were.

There's an emotional tie that you're. You're respecting that I honestly wouldn't care, like, if.

If.

If you. You had a loved one passed away, and. And I. I'm like, hey, dude, pass the chips.

Well, if you're talking to me about it while you're eating chips, I'm like, all right.

And I honestly will always care when you chew into the microphone.

That's inapprop. But you gotta understand, I do some of this stuff for effects. You're in the room, like, you can see me eating. But our listeners, they need to feel the veracity of the situation.

Nobody needs to feel that. Nobody. No, it's never a good idea.

What's up with your glasses? That you're wearing nowadays.

So Jeremy made me like, to film these skits. And you all should know I'm the worst actress ever. So I put these on because I thought it would make me feel more in my role. You know, I'm supposed to be a businesswoman.

Yeah.

So I put them on. But then I really liked them, so I just left them on all day.

So those aren't real glasses. Meaning they're not prescription. Oh, wow. There's no even lens. You just poked your eye out.

Yeah. So they are actually the. The blue.

Oh, blue blockers.

Yeah. But I took the lenses out for the filming purposes. Yeah, they're good.

I mean, you kind of look like Wonder Woman from the Lynda Carter days. Oh, did you watch? You're too young for that.

Yeah, I've seen it.

Okay.

I mean, I've seen.

She wore big glasses like that, and she would take it off. It's like, oh, my God, there's Wonder Woman.

Yeah.

Do you have any, like, artifact or anything that you put on? Like, if you need to have confidence in a situation, maybe you're gonna do some. Some business stuff here that's of significance. Or maybe you're gonna have a big meeting. You went to the Vistage group that you're. Are you gonna join them?

I am.

Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Are you in the key group or the. No, not. You're in the other group.

No, I'm in the other group.

What's it called?

Oh, no, I guess it is. It's the key executive.

No, no, it's the. You're in the Presidents and.

Yeah, yeah.

So Stacy. Oh, my God, I forgot last. Stacey. Is she the one who owns.

Yeah, Stacy Duff.

Stacey Duff. She was in Vistage for 15 years. She's like. It's the best thing I've ever done.

Yeah, I really, really love it.

So when you go to your Vistage meeting or something, do you have an artifact or something you. You wear to bring more confidence or to bring. Exude a certain type of personality? Like, say you're wearing a business outfit.

Yeah. Yeah. And I guess I do try to wear more business attire when I want to. Want people to see me as professional. Okay. Easier to, you know, personify that, I guess. But overall, no. I have. In the past, I have a bracelet that I wore that I got from Ghana. That's my, like, badass traveler bracelet. So it empowers me that I can, like, handle any situation.

Okay, so you do have stuff like that. I think that's so important. I Do stuff like that now too. It's a reminder to take on a certain element of my own personality. But a certain. Amplify a certain Persona, confidence or whatever it may be.

Yeah.

So for me now, I noticed this bracelet I wear. I always wear it. I. I put on here. This is eradicate on poverty. There's a little thing. It naturally slips down so it's under my wrist.

Yeah.

So I leave it there now and when I'm about to speak, then I rotate it back up and let it sit at the top. And then I wear this during the speech to kind of empower that importance of it. And I let it kind of sit in my. It's natural state after that. Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a little thing I'm doing. What are you laughing at, Jake? You making fun of me?

It's cute.

You making fun of me? You think that's funny?

No.

You think that's funny?

It's a horrible impression.

They're all horrible.

Yeah, they're pretty.

No, they're not.

No. Your build plan is actually pretty good.

That tell you about my. The watch that I got? This was. This was after I sold my house.

Yeah.

It's from a show called Burn Notice. The lead character wore this watch. And I love that show. He was a spy. Really cool dude. So I was like, man, the watch is like, awesome. So I went on ebay and I got one. I was lucky. It cost me like, it was like 600 bucks.

Damn.

Holy snap.

But it's worth like 1300 now because it's super rare in that condition because they don't make them anymore.

Okay. So you can sell.

And it was promoted for the show.

Okay.

So. Yeah, so it. But it's. I feel awesome when I wear it. It looks okay.

Good.

Yeah. That's cool.

It's cool.

Yeah.

I did not know that. That's my Johnny Carson. You ever watch Johnny Carson, the great Carsniak? He talked like that. Yes. No. I don't know. No. You know Marv Albert Iverson for two. Yes.

Okay, Can I just say on the bingo board, one word gives me two bingos.

One word gives you two bingos. Oh, interesting. For Kelsey. Yes. All right. Hey, Kelsey, let's get. We got a guest we gotta bring on here. I just want to know first, I want to thank nextiva, our. Do we have a sound effect for them? Yes, we do. It's right here. I want to thank nextiva, our voice over IP phone system supporter. I also believe we have another listener that gave us a shout out. What is It.

Oh, I don't say so. This comes from Paul. He writes, wow, have been totally blown away by your profit first approach. I started reading the book last weekend, finished it this morning, and already have set my bank accounts up. My bank looked at me like I had three heads. Distributed the money that was sitting in my business account. I cannot believe how liberating and empowering this has been. I've been running my own business for over 15 years and never felt in control as much as I do now. Profit never figured in it before. Now I'm excited to move those new payments into the income account and cannot wait for the 25th. Also, the book was a delight to read. Your style really made it a pleasure when normally as soon as I start thinking about cash flow figures, etcetera, I come out in a cold sweat. And with your book, I was laughing. Thank you. Wishing you continued success with your mission to eradicate entrepreneurial poverty. You have a new disciple.

Nice job, Kelsey. Good job, Paul. Why are we crossing out people's last names? Like we're not allowed to say it anymore or something? See how his names crossed out?

Yeah.

Okay, so we're not gonna announce his last name.

Yeah.

You ever have someone like you just. You aspire to be like.

Yeah, of course.

So David Meerman Scott. I remember the first goes back like seven or eight years ago. He came out with a book that was the New rules of marketing and Marketing pr. And we all did these speaking events together. And I run into David Meerman Scott. And so I get a stage, this little breakout. Like two people show my mom and my sister. And then they're like the main keynote. And like a thousand people, two thousand people run like people are jumping over my stage.

Beetlemania hit the stage.

Yeah. I got elbowed in the face by my mom, David Bierman Scott. And I was watching, I'm like, oh, that's what a professional is like. And just shared innovative concept. Innovative concept was coming out of a brand new book called Phenocracy. And it's.

No, no.

What?

We just went over this.

I just spit my water in my mouth.

Why? Did I say something wrong?

Yes.

What?

He just told you how to pronounce it.

What? Fanocracy.

I think you said funocracy.

I said Phenocracy. You guys are so critical.

Sorry.

Continue.

Fanocracy. Yeah, Turning fans into customers and customers into fans. And what David argues is that we are moving from a to a new rule of engagement and through fanocracy. So you spin. You actually spin yourself so with no further ado, David, welcome to our show.

Oh, my gosh, thanks. It's awesome to be here. And I love the introduction of me on the stage. Thank you for that.

Yeah. Well, it was a true story and that your book, New Rules of Marketing and pr went on to sell, I think, almost a half a million copies, which is unheard of in the business space.

It's kind of crazy. Half a million copies? Almost. Well, it's like 400,000 plus in English and it's in 29 other languages. Yeah, kind of. Kind of cool.

Yeah. I mean, like, you are defining how marketing works and what you've discovered is now it's fanocracy. So what does that term even mean?

So fanocracy is a made up word, obviously. And I think of it as that's where the fans rule. A democracy is the rule of the many, and a meritocracy is the rule of the best. And fanocracy is the rule of the fans. And I think it's this direction that we're really going right now is that this idea of fandom is so interesting and so important. And I come at it from the perspective of being a ridiculous live music geek. I've been to 791 live music shows. I have a spreadsheet where I keep the list, including 75 Grateful Dead concerts. That's my favorite band. So I really geek out about it. So I was thinking, gee, there's like something going on with fandom and can companies tap it? And the answer is yes.

Well, you have your own massive fan base. Surely they had some influence over you writing this book. How did that play into it? Or did.

Did, actually, because lots of people know me as you do for the New Rules of marketing and PR that originally came out in 2007. I've done six updates to it since then. And I was. And people always say to me, david, wait, what's going on? What's the new new rules? What's the new rules? You identified the new rules of marketing and PR originally in 2007. That was a long time ago. What are the new new new rules? And so I was thinking about it, and I think that the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of superficial online communications. People took the ideas I wrote about and abused them. You know, it's like, okay, so I can send email messages to people, so why not send three a day? Or I can connect with someone on LinkedIn, so why not connect with them and then immediately try to sell them something? Or now We've got AI and robots, so why not just have my entire company, like not even have any humans involved with communications and communicate with people through Facebook bots and at the same time, the social networks, it's really hard to get noticed unless you pay them. And they're optimized around polarization in the political world and polarization of the things that we look at in social networks. If you decide you want to look at a couple of cars, all of a sudden they're throwing cars at you all the time. So I think that we've swung too far in that direction. And I think we're all looking for true human connection. And I think that we're swinging back to an idea of true human connection. And that's really what this fandom culture is, this idea of the things we love, the things we love to do, whether it's fishing or bird watching or going to live concerts or surfing or watching the Red Sox play or whatever it is. And that's a true human connection when you do those things. And companies can tap that.

Can you give me some of the behavioral aspects, like what makes a fan a fan? Why do we follow someone so feverishly.

So fervently so in digging in. And I've been studying this now exclusively, it seems, for five years. And my daughter Reiko, who's now 26, has been working on it with me. She's my co author. We looked at the stuff we're fans of. So I'm massive Grateful Dead and live music fan. She's a massive fan of Harry Potter, has not only read every book multiple times, seen every movie multiple times, gone to the Wizarding World of Harry Potter, Orlando theme park multiple times, went to London to the studio tour. But she wrote a 90,000 alternative word ending to the Harry Potter series where Draco Malfoy is a spy for the Order of the Phoenix. Put that on a fan fiction site. It's been downloaded thousands of times and many people have commented on it. So we are geeks for the things we love, as all of us are. And what we recognized is really simple, that it turns out the things we love, we love them because we're part of a tribe. We're part of like minded people. Like, if I go to a Grateful Dead concert, the last one I went to was actually three weeks ago. I'm with my tribe, I'm with my people. You know, we speak the same language. We're dorks about what we love and celebrate that thing. And in digging into that, what we learned is that there's actually a neuroscience basis to that. It's deep in our psyche and our DNA, our ancient brains, that the closer we get to someone who's like minded, the more powerful that human connection is.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah, exactly. And there's actually. We spoke with some neuroscientists about this. There's zones of influence identifying by a neuroscientist named Edward T. Hall that further than 20ft away. We to humans don't really track people, but inside of 20ft, we begin to track them. So if you walk into a room, you can't help it, your ancient brain is tracking those people. Inside of four feet is called personal space. And that's a really powerful place if you don't trust someone, like in a crowded elevator, it's a really neg can be a really negative reaction because our brain is taking over and saying, do I need to worry about fighting this, this human that? I don't know. And we can't help it. That's why we feel uncomfortable in an elevator. And then when you're with people you like, like grooving at a Grateful Dead concert, or my daughter going to Harry Potter or whatever it is you guys like, that's a really powerful human emotion. And so what that says is that the more we as business people can connect in person, live as humans, one to one or one to many, bringing ourselves in close proximity with our custom, the more powerful that relationship is, the more fans we develop. And it's deeply rooted in neuroscience.

This reminds me of a Candid Camera episode I saw with an elevator. And what they did is they had all the actors in the elevator facing the back wall. So when the, the subject, or the victim, if you will, would get into the elevator, when the doors would open.

Facing the people facing the door.

Yeah. And it was, it was hysterical. But I think it spoke to something that I'm curious about is often these people would turn, they'd be influenced by the group and they would face the same direction as these people facing the wall. And then, you know, then camera took it to an extreme. These people then would every 30 seconds turn like half a step. So they'd now face the other wall and then they turn and then the victim would start doing the same thing.

Gosh. Well, our ancient brains are attuned to danger. It's a survival technique. So you're in an elevator, it's a closed space, you don't know those people. And naturally your ancient brain takes over and you get nervous. You can't help it. So I would Imagine that if people are turning one direction like, well, I don't want to screw this up and get beaten up. I'm going to turn that direction too, I guess.

Right, right. They're doing it for some reason. It must be okay. So when it comes to fans for our business, is this something we can deliberately facilitate or is this something that just happens naturally?

It is something you absolutely can deliberately facilitate. And most people don't. Most organizations don't. So one of my favorite examples is, is Haggerty Insurance. And you know, if you were to see one of my speeches. Now, here's how I open my speeches. I don't even say good morning. I don't even say thank you. I walk onto the stage, I look out to the audience, I pause and I say, who loves to buy auto insurance? And there's like, there's dead silence and a few people giggling. Nobody. Everyone hates it. It's a terrible, terrible thing. You hate to spend money on auto insurance and you hate even more having to use it because it means you crashed your car. I mean, how awful, right? And so I interviewed Michiel Haggerty. He's the CEO of an auto insurance company. They actually insure classic cars. He said to me, david, there is no way I can compete the way everyone else is competing in the auto business. You know, like, like GEICO has these stupid lizards on their television commercials. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to compet price. I mean, it's ridiculous. I decided I was going to build fans of my business and now they're in a business everyone hates. And because they do classic cars, what he did was he goes, he and his people, now they become a really big company. So there's a lot of people, but they go to classic car events around the country and there's over 100 a year. And they're there showing the flag. They have a booth, they provide education, they have all sorts of cool stuff going on at those shows that's physically in person. They have a YouTube channel with nearly a million subscribers. An insurance company with a million subscribers.

Unbelievable.

They have a fan. They have a Hagerty driver's club. You pay 45,000, $45 to join. They have 650,000 members. They're just doing all of this cool stuff to develop fans. And what Mikhail Haggerty told me was, David, I didn't have to invent the passion for cars. People already had passion for their classic cars. All I had to do was tap into it. And that fandom rubbed off on me. And now they're the fastest growing auto insurer, I think in the world, certainly in North America. They're going to grow by 200,000 customers this year. And it's all based on fandom. And in a business everyone hates, absolutely convinced in talking with hundreds of CEOs of other companies that have built fans and thousands of people who are fans of things that it's something that everyone can do, anybody can do it, but so few do because they're typically out there pushing their stuff through social media or just slinging products and services.

Over my 12 years of being an author devoted to the small business entrepreneur, I've discovered the biggest challenge. And you know what it is? It's profitability. That's why I wrote Profit first and that's why I'm now hosting a two day workshop here at my offices in Boonton, New Jersey, where I will teach you and my team will teach you how to become permanently profitable. Go to profitfirstlive.com right now to get details. Again, profitfirstlive.com find the dates that work for you and I'll see you here at my office. So Hagerty Grateful Dead. I mean, these are big names. What about little business? I got six, seven people that work for the, for my brand here, mostly part time. We don't have those budgets, we don't have that size. Can we build fans?

No question about it. So picking up on this idea of neuroscience and what's going on with our in our brains, when we're fans of something, people say, well, David, you know that idea of meeting people in person, that sounds great, but I know I run a virtual business or, you know, I just can't physically meet all my customers. Well, it turns out there's another form of neuroscience, another thing that we studied, which becomes really interesting for businesses like yours. Small businesses or solopreneurs or doctors or dentists or lawyers. And it's the concept of mirror neurons. So mirror neurons are the part of our brain that fires when we see somebody. And the part of our brain fires as if the thing that we're seeing, we're actually doing ourself. So this concept explains why when we go to a sad movie, we feel sad or if there's something scary, we feel scared. I mean, we're watching a screen, yet we physically feel scared or sad. And that is because the part of our brain that's mirror neurons are firing as if we were doing that ourself. So in my hand right now, I have A lemon. In the other hand, I have a slice of lemon. I'm holding it up to the camera right now for those people who are seeing this on the camera. And I'm going to now take a bite of the slice of lemon.

Oh, Jesus.

Oh, my gosh. As I take that bite of the slice of lemon, my eyes close, my mouth begins to water, my mouth puckers up. I mean, a bite of lemon is really powerful, and my brain is firing like crazy as I'm eating this little bite of lemon. And I would guess anybody who's watching me have that bite of lemon, and even if you're just listening to me talk about that bite of lemon, that your brain is firing, too. And you're probably having a little bit of saliva secreted. You're probably maybe even puckering up your mouth uncontrollably because of this talk of taking a bite out of a lemon. That's your.

So the funny thing is. The funny thing is I started the pucker. I know you did. Kelsey reached for a bottle of tequila.

Nice. Nice.

So fired away. So that is. No, that phenomenon happened. And maybe you didn't have an actual lemon, but I sensed it.

No, I did, and I hold it up to the camera. So. So what's interesting. Here's what's interesting about this. This concept of mirror neurons. Again, it's something hardwired in our brains. And so I mentioned earlier this idea of proximity. And when we're within four feet of someone, that's cocktail party distance. Cocktail party distance is where the most powerful human emotions between two people are occurring. If you trust someone and you like them and they're your friend, and maybe you're going to Grateful Dead concert together, or maybe you're at the same event together, or maybe you're at a friend's house watching the game or whatever it is. Powerful, powerful positive emotions in our ancient brains taking over, saying, we trust this person. This is a good person. What this mirror neurons concept, though, is if you use video or photographs and you share images or videos that are cropped as if you're four feet from the camera and you're looking directly at the camera, that's incredibly powerful because our mirror neurons take over and say, I'm actually in proximity with that person, even though you're not. Even though you're just looking at a camera or you're looking at a screen of someone who's looking into a camera. That's why we feel that we personally know movie stars or television stars. You've never met them. You don't know who they are. They don't know who you are. But your brain kicks in and says, I personally know those people. And so you asked about a small business or even a solopreneur, if you understand how to use that concept of mirror neurons in the form of photographs or videos, that's. That's fabulously powerful. So creating a YouTube channel where you look into the camera and deliver powerful information, that's what Matt Risinger did. Matt is a builder in Austin, Texas. He builds custom homes, and he's built a YouTube channel now that's got hundreds of thousands of subscribers, because a couple of times a week, he looks into the camera and takes the viewers on a little bit of a journey around some aspect of building. And he's grown his business to 20 million in revenue by doing this. And get this. He makes hundreds of thousands of dollars per year on sponsorships because people love his YouTube channel so much, they want to sponsor it. Dr. John Morashi is a dentist, a humble dentist in Los Angeles in a very competitive market for dentists. Yet he's crushing it because he has an Instagram feed where he shows images of himself frequently cropped as if you're in his personal space close to him. And he has four different categories of photographs that he shares. One, he shares photographs with his patients. Some of them are famous, and that's really cool. He shares photographs of him skateboarding. He's a skateboarder, so he's opening up his personal life to his now fans. He also shares photos of his family. And you don't have to do that, but it's very powerful because you get to know someone personally when you know who their family is. And finally, he shares the ubiquitous shots that all dentists share of before and after teeth. You know, the dirty, crooked, dark teeth and then the nice, clean, white, straight teeth. That's what everyone does. He has, last time I checked, over 12,000 followers on Instagram. He told me 30% of his new business comes from his social networks, particularly Instagram. And he thinks it might be more because there's also referrals, people who look at his Instagram. So that's using the idea of fandom, and we're just talking about the concept of neuroscience. That's only one aspect. Using the idea of fandom to grow business. And it can be a big company or a tiny company or a solopreneur. Anyone can do it.

And does it sound. What I'm hearing is it sounds like sharing even your personal interests is maybe in your best interest. Now, you know the. The doctor who's showing that he's a skateboarder, which is very LA of him, by the way. It is, yeah.

Yeah. And photos are fabulous and humble.

Humble dentist in LA is kind of an oxymoron.

Fabulously a photogenic dentist. It's awesome on his skateboard, I'm sure.

But what about if I have a more traditional business, so I own a manufacturing business and we make teacups. Do I want to show my personal life that I'm a skateboarder too? I mean, or is that too much of a disconnect?

I think that is very powerful because ultimately, what we learned, my daughter Reiko and I just talked to a whole bunch of people, all kinds of different businesses, is that it really, truly does come down to true human connection. People like to do business with people that they like. And it's really simple. We all do. It's just human nature. So if you're someone who buys teacups and you can just do it at the cheapest price or sure, some people might do that. But if you find an organization that makes teacups where the founder is part of the company and doing some really cool stuff and you get to know them on a personal basis, there's no question that. That it's more likely to build fans, more likely to grow business if they show their human side that they're someone who you feel that you would want to do business with. That's what we've found in doing all of this research, David.

We only had time to scratch the surface. There's so much more to learn. Where can our listeners pick up fanocracy?

So Fanocracy is available all over. My daughter Reiko and I actually read the audiobook version, so.

Oh, cool.

Audiobook version. There's a ebook version. There's a. A hard cover version. It's coming out from Portfolio, which is Penguin Random House. I've got a cool website@www.fanocracy.com if you want to check out stuff first. We've got some videos up there, some free content you can download on the socials. I am DMscott D M S C O T T on Twitter and whatnot.

Great. And this book releases literally tomorrow.

Literally tomorrow. And it's literally.

And hey, who's your ed? I work with Portfolio too. Who's who you working with?

Oh, my gosh. Nina is my editor. Nina.

Oh, I know Nina. Oh, you got the good one.

Yeah, she's awesome.

So we had. We had Kaushik and He left us.

And I had Will. Will Weisler was. Was my editor.

Oh, did you really? Yeah.

And. And he left a couple of months ago to start his own business. But I love. I love portfolios. Awesome. Awesome.

I love portfolios.

I really do. They're great. They've been so unbelievably great to work with.

So I have a big prank I'm gonna play on them when I'm doing my book launch. I always mess with them and just do things that just throw a little wrench in the usual system. So we have a big prank. They won't listen to the show so I can share. They don't have posters all over their place. And we're gonna get cut outs of me, I think just making stupid faces in the book and does. We're going to actually blanket their building because they merged into that new location. We're going to blanket the building with, like, dumb posters and cutouts of me.

Nice.

And Adrian's going to lose his mind.

He is. That's awesome. When does that come out?

My book doesn't launch until March.

Oh, please.

Actually, April.

April, please, please make sure that you let me know about it so I can help you to get it out there.

Oh, I'd be honored. David, thank you so much. So, David, thank you for joining us on today's episode.

Oh, this has been great.

I love it.

I love it. Thank you so much to have me on and everyone.

Get the book right now. Phenocracy. This is the moment. Like, get it today. His work is nothing short of remarkable. There's a reason his audience was jamming and people are running through me and elbow me in the groin to get this. So you guys are mocking me a lot. You left the room. You're. It's interesting how sometimes I think, like, voodoo, like, you were making so much fun of me, J Bone. Like, you're spitting on yourself. You're. You're. You're. That all of a sudden you get this coughing fit like that. That.

I think it's karma.

I think it's karma.

Yeah.

I told Kelsey yesterday I wasn't sure if I was gonna be able to sit in because I was coughing so bad.

Yeah. So is it the flu?

Well, I think that's what it was, but I just had a wicked cough the last, like, two days.

You really should stop smoking.

Yes.

So, Kels.

Yeah.

We're gonna recap what we learned. We are going to play a different game today. We have Dead or Alive. Dead. Yeah. Dead or alive. At first, I do want to thank our corporate partner, that's nextiva, for making this show a reality. They're a voiceover IP and CRM using artificial intelligence to dynamically monitor your clients sentiment about your business. That's pretty weird, isn't it, dude?

Yeah, it is weird.

Like I say, hey, Cass, how you doing today? I'm doing good. Like, bullshit. According to Next diva, you're lying. According next to you. But you're not happy. How do you like working here? I love it. All that stuff. Do you like Jeremy? Is he working out? Yes, he is. No, he's not. Next. He would tell you all that stuff.

Yeah, I call.

I call. Do any of your sisters listen to the show anymore? They all go.

They both do, actually.

I love it.

My other sister, Delaney listened to a marathon of it yesterday and she kept sending me comments on it. And I should comment that she was like, I personally wouldn't go with the name snacks, but I have given myself nicknames before.

Okay, okay. I love that commentary. You two would not believe how many fans you have out there. So when I travel you the most, a lot of people come up to me and say, hey, where's Kelsey? I'm like, what do you mean? Like, she's like part of the show. I'm like, she travels with me. Like, oh, there. Kelsey's gonna sit here, like, wave to.

I mean, you could invite me sometimes.

I should invite you. When I'm on stage. You can just. You can be my heckler. Yeah, I've heard better. Oh, I know what's coming. Here's this joke. Ha ha. And same thing. They're like, has Jay Keblone. They all know your different variants of your name. Jay Colone. J Blown.

Nobody asks for J Balloon.

No, no, seriously, not as much. Kelsey gets the number one request. You're number two. But quite frankly, that's the entire suite of our show here. Really? No one else. All right, Kelsey, what did you learn today from David Meerman Scott?

That we are all looking for human connections and, you know, in order to. Or I guess we love being part of something because we feel like we're part of the tribe and we can create that by sharing our personal lives, bringing people into our lives. And I thought that the neuroscience trick of being four feet away so that you're in that personal space proximity. Who knew that was so effective? But it makes sense, right?

Yeah. You ever watch movies? But sometimes newscasters, they zoom in so close and high def. You're like, you don't have to get in that class. I know, but I guess that does build a closer connection to that person.

It's amazing.

What'd you take away, Jake Leone?

Well, since I was having my coughing fit and running in and out, I'm gonna defer to you.

Okay. So I learned that there's too much superficial communication. The funny thing is, instantly I know this.

Yeah.

But I feel like, oh, that's necessary. I'm kind of complacent to it because I'm like, oh, I guess that's this whoop.

Right. But it does play the game, right.

Yeah. But it feels awkward.

Yeah.

Which I guess means the biggest opportunity. Because when it feels uncomfortable for you, it's probably uncomfortable for a lot of people. And if you're not voicing it, probably a lot of other people aren't voicing it. So it does pose an opportunity. I also liked the mirror Neurons fire when we see something because it makes us feel that emotion, because we actually feel that we're the ones experiencing it.

Right?

I mean, it was the same thing you said. I love this. The word saliva secretion, how you lost your freaking mind. I love it. You're so weird, Kelsey.

No, there's no rhyme or reason.

You just lost it now. You lost over something else. Last time, ways back, what was the guy's last name? Do you remember?

Oh, I know what you're talking about. It was the guy.

What was his last name?

It was like, Cox.

It was like Cox.

His last name was. It was like, Jim Cox. And you're like, who? And there was a guy. I don't even know if you remember. There was a guy. This is even before you two joined the show. There was another guy, Harry someone. And I can't remember his last name, but. But he was busting. He was making fun of us. He's like, this is the worst show ever. So we made fun of him on the show. There's fans of our show that come to me like, oh, whatever happened to Harry? I'm like, I don't know what happened to him. So, okay, so let's go on to our game. Is that cool?

Yeah, of course. Good segue.

Yeah, good segue. So I had a story that went nowhere, and let's just segue right out of it. That was absolutely uninteresting. Mike, thank you. So I'm going to give you. Here's the game we're going to play. David, are you still with us, by the way? Because I want you to play with us. Okay. I don't know if you're there. He may not be so kels. Jeremy, you two are up. I'm going to give you three people. Or actually it's going to be four people because there's two partners. These are all entrepreneurs. I'll tell you the business they own. The questions are they dead or alive? You have to answer for each one. So it's not the one who's dead or the ones alive. So the first one is Linda Avey and Anniki, I think it is. They're the founders of 23andMe. 23andMe. Linda Avey and Ann Wahockian. And I hope I.

Did you just say something totally different?

Yes, I did, because I can only. It's was Jockey. Wijiki Hickey. Wacky. It's like McCallow. It's all right. Next one is the founder of the body shop. You go there Kelsey, don't you?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is that a gym?

No. Isn't it?

Yeah, it's like a bath and body work.

Yeah.

Kind of like lotion perfume.

Never heard of it.

Yeah.

You never heard of body Shop?

No.

Dame Anita Roddick. It's a relatively new company. Dead or alive. Debbie Fields, the founder of Mrs. Fields Cookies. I know you frequent that place. Jeremy.

Thank you for that.

The cookie shop. Is she dead or alive? Okay, so Kels and Jeremy, first one, Linda Av And Ann Wajakuliki.

I thought you said there's four.

Yeah, well, because there was two. There was a package. Linda and Ann.

But then there's Dame Anita and Debbie Fields.

Yeah, Dame Anita Roderick is one person. So the first company founders of 23. And you know how to get so complex. It's Linda and Anne. Are they dead or alive? Jeremy?

Answer for like, both. They're both the same.

Yeah. They're both dead or they're both alive.

I'm gonna say alive.

Okay, Kels?

I'm gonna say alive too.

Okay. Dame Anita Roddick, the founder of the body shop. Dead or alive, Kels?

Dead.

Okay, Jeremy. It's a brand new company. I'm pretty vital.

I'll say alive. I'll go live.

Thank you for being a little kinder because that company was founded in like 2001 or something.

Lies.

I don't know when it's found. Debbie fields, founder of Mrs. Fields Cookies. I've been around for a while. Callous. That's a tough one.

Yeah.

Dead or alive?

Dead.

Oh, my gosh. And this is not. This is not. I want our listeners to know this is not what you necessarily wish upon people. It probably is.

No.

But you're not necessarily wishing they were dead. You Just believe that you wished they were dead. Jeremy dead. Okay, so I gotta say, Jeremy wins by one point. Linda and Ann, alive and well. Founders of 23andMe. Debbie Fields, founder of Mrs. Fields Cookies. Alive, both of you. Both. She's alive. She was born in 1956. She's only 62 years old as of last year. So 63 now.

When was that founded?

I don't know. I don't know. Dame Anita Roddick. The body shop passed away 2007.

So then I won.

Let's see. So you got that one right. You got that one right. Kelsey won.

Jeremy, congratulations.

You know, that's what makes you so. You're so self centered, Kelsey. Right. I was just trying to be nice to Jeremy. He's lost the last couple games. I knew you won. You won. You can't say one word wrong around you. You're. You're a nightmare.

Why is it so funny to me? I have no idea why that's so funny to me.

Yeah, that is funny when people say the wrong word.

Yeah. And nobody else finds that nearly as hilarious as I do.

A few people call you Kre when I meet him face to face. I don't to know that.

I mean, I don't doubt it.

I only need three things for the entire board of bingo.

Well, we'll have to have the next episode because we're out of here. Well, Kelsey's gonna wrap us up. Let's see if it happens. All right, let's go. Kelsey, take us out.

Thank you guys for listening and please don't forget to subscribe. Also, if you have any questions, just email them to ask mike mikemichallis.com and then we'll create a little video for you and put on YouTube.

Did you get points on that?

Where does water come from at your house?

The faucet.

Before that.

The well.

Yeah, big.

Oh, boom, boom, boom.

Talk about my well again.

No, just well.

Well, I don't know if your words are any good. Hey, you know what is good? It's a brand new book I'm writing called Fix this next coming out this April. You can pre order it now. Go to Amazon, type in fix this next and pick it up. And also go to mikemotorbike.com that's my website. And click on get the tools. I got some surprises, prizes for you. See ya.