Episode 11: How to Profit as a Life Coach with Rick Clemons

From the studios of Fractal Recording, this is the Profit first podcast, episode 11.

Bam.

Yeah.

Woo. Wow, my brother. How you feeling?

I feel pretty good, man.

Right. Welcome everyone, to the Profit first podcast. I'm Chris Curran. I'm the founder of Fractal Recording.

And I'm Mike Michalowicz, author of Profit First Buy at Amazon.

Right. And our show's kind of based on your book.

Yeah. You know, the whole thing got started and is staying this way to talk about profitability. It is the key of every business. Yes, we're in business to serve others. We're in business for a million reasons, but we have to be profitable. And that's what we talk about in the show.

Right. And we're available as a podcast in itunes and Stitcher. And of course, the website is profitfirstpodcast.com. it's a great site. It goes to your site.

Actually, it does go to my site. That's why it's such a great site.

What have you been up to, man?

Dude, check this out. I got put up on the thing. See those? What are those?

Yeah. Pair of Chucks.

Chuck Towers, baby.

Right.

Do you know it's this time of year that the Christmas gifts actually start becoming integrated into your wardrobe? So, like Christmas morning, my wife gave me these Chuck E. T's. They're high tops, they're awesome. And, you know, so what do I do? I throw them on instantly. So I'm wearing all the new clothes that day.

Right.

But then some goes into the wash, other gets stayed in the box. It's around this time of year, about a month later, where finally they start getting integrated. So now I'm wearing my Chucks.

That's cool.

What are you up to, brother?

Well, I didn't get this white, blank, white T shirt for Christmas.

You mean those yellow armpit stains didn't come with it?

Jeez.

Now, I've been focusing a lot on the Mystic Show. It's another show I do called the Mystic Show. I talk about spirituality and mindfulness. It's really deep stuff.

Yeah. I've been getting more into your stuff. Like, now that we're doing this together, I've been following, like you have that meetup. I actually had a conversation with my wife saying maybe we should come to the meetup. And she's like, it sounds too edgy and spiritual. I'm like, yeah, I don't know. So I'm kind of. I'm. I'm dipping a toe in the water.

Good stuff. Hey. Because you can profit spiritually.

Oh, My God, this guy. So guess what, man, we got some badass sponsors. Yes.

Quickly.

Yeah. Rush through them, Mike. They're only funding the entire show. So next. Nextiva is still with us. We are on episode number 11 and they're still with us because I'm not telling them that we're still doing this. So they just forgot. And the checks keep coming in. So thanks to nextiva. We'll talk about them later. But they're a phone provider.

Yes, tsheets.

They do time tracking. And Fundera. It provides funding. It's a single source. Funding for entrepreneurs. All of them are amazing companies. All of them re upped.

Cool.

And we got First Inquiry. If someone else that wants to sponsor without me already having established relationship with them. So if you're listening in now and you're like, oh, my God, this show gives so much exposure. It's such an amazing show. I should sponsor it. We're willing to take your money.

There you go. Contact us through the website.

Yeah.

That's awesome. So today, this is gonna be a great episode.

It's gonna be a great episode because we have one of my favorite guests. He is so much fun and he is. He's witty, he's sarcastic, and he's gay. And his name is Rick Clemens. He is the certified coach and he wrote a book called Frankly, My Dear, I'm Gay. No, I guess it's more like frankly, my dear, I'm gay or the other voice you used. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's my. I can do a feminine voice. Frankly, my dear, I'm gay. Like, I can do that. I can do that voice.

Sure.

So Rick is a coming out coach, but here's what's cool about him. He doesn't just help the gay community in coming out and we'll talk about. I'm sure it's a major transition in your life, but he helps anyone with coming out. Really being authentically yourself. That's the key. And that's why Rick and I connect so well. He's been on the Ricki Lake show. You know, Ricky Lake.

Yeah, I remember that.

She sells a show.

Cool.

Yeah. So I think we'll have to ask her. I think her. She is gay. I think. I don't know, but it doesn't really matter.

Doesn't matter.

Yeah. So now I'm in an awkward. Rick has two daughters and he puts a note in here even though he's gay. If you didn't hear that part yet, he's an avid distance. This is his note. He's an avid Distance cyclist. Although he's built like a linebacker and he has a shoe fetish. That's my kind of linebacker. With no further ado, Rick Clemens.

Yeah.

How are you, sir?

I don't know what the hell I just got myself into. I swear to God, you know, it's only 10 o' clock here in California and I'm like, I haven't even had my second cup of coffee and now I gotta do this with Mikal. What was I thinking? Other than he's my other brother who's not gay, and I love him to death. So that's.

Dude, I love you to death. Rick and I met maybe two years ago now in the Philadelphia area at a speaking conference. And it was run by a fellow colleague who, by the way, was on our show. Michael Port.

Yes, Michael Port.

Michael Port's a phenomenal person. He is super talented at speaking, training and. And Rick was there getting training. Rick and I are in the same business. We're both public speakers and we're both getting trained. And it was just cool. Rick and I got there, we connected, and it's been a love affair ever since. I guess I don't even know what to say.

It's been a bromance.

A bromance. It's been a bromance. It's been a bro.

It's one of those cross gender bromances. You know, we're both the same gender, but I'm gay, you're straight, and we love each other.

So, yeah, totally.

It's a marriage made in some weird heaven out there in a seminar. Seminar heaven.

Where in California are you, Rick?

I am in. I'm gonna say the Los Angeles area. Because when I say I'm from Riverside, everybody's like, huh, where is that? It's a beautiful place. We're right between Palm Springs, Louisiana. Orange County, San Diego. Kind of in the heart of everything. I can go swim in my pool, take an hour drive, be up in the mountain, skiing, take another hour drive back the other direction, laying on the.

Beach, rub it in.

Yeah.

So here I come out. I slip on the water that came out of the pool because it's frozen solid, bang my head.

It's seven degrees here.

Yeah. Yeah. I stare at Chris with pit stains on his shirt.

Do I really?

No, you really don't. So, Rick, tell us a little bit. I don't know if my intro was like, accurate or horrible or somewhere between totally accurate.

And the only part that was horrible is you just, you know, you just don't have the voice for.

Oh, F you very much. Dude, I can do a gayer voice than you can.

For the title of the book it's frankly my dear, I'm gay.

Okay. I don't have that voice.

Yeah, he got you.

Okay, okay, that was good. What's the book about?

You know, the book is. Okay, first thing, everybody's gonna go, oh, it's another one of those coming out stories. Okay, yeah, that's true. But it comes from my black diva inner bitch side and she just comes right to the point. Like, okay, yeah, so I got married, I had kids, I came out of the closet and guess what? I survived, I thrived. And oh yeah, we're still a great family. So it's really my story. But the high heels and the extra accessories that come along with it are that you actually get some coaching every other chapter about going through that space in life. So everything from oh my God, I'm coming out to my family to okay, so now I'm standing in the gay bar, dating and how does that work when it's man o, man o. So it's just a really cool book.

Alright, so this is a juicy story. I mean we supposed to be talking about profit and we will. But I want to know about your experience of coming out. Like, tell us.

Well, I came out.

Yeah, but like was there. You must have been conflicted internally about this.

I was very conflicted. I had come out at age 19 to my family. Wasn't really strong enough to stand my ground at that time. It was a different time frame too. I mean we were talking just at the beginning of the 80s and the AIDS crisis was just starting to hit and I'm a 19 year old teen and you know, things just weren't, it wasn't time for me and I feel really frickin blessed because I think that was the moment that the higher power said, now go back in that closet. Yeah, life will be a little bit hellacious when you decide to do this, but you're going to be a much more mature gay man when it's time for you to do this.

Yeah. Because now you're comfortable. I mean, you're your real true authentic self.

Absolutely. I grew into my skin and long story short, met a guy in London, kind of bada bing, bada boom. But that night we didn't really bada bing, bada boom. That's the whole point of it is that night I did what I'd been doing a lot of my life. I hooked up with a guy, but there was no hookup, there was no Sex. I fell in love and I fell apart because I didn't know what the heck to do with this. I was actually like, wow, I'm having this connection with this guy. And it wasn't just about a romp in the hay. And that began to open me up to this really can be something I can be. I already had the kids. I'd already been in a long term relationship. Now suddenly I was connecting. And there everything took off.

Two questions. Were you still married at the time?

Yes, I was. Second of all, yucky cheating bastards.

Okay, so, you son of a bitch. But let me ask you a second question. Did he have a British accent?

Oh, he was a hot, hunky Brit. Let me tell you.

I'll tell you. You put a British accent on anybody and it's a plus one or plus two on the attractiveness scale, right?

Wow.

Do you disagree?

No, I agree 100%. That was just like weak knees and everything came awake, you know, all at the same time. Like, all right, here we go. But, and it was really cool because because of him and we are actually still friends, I was able to see my stuff in a really beautiful light. And ironically, that's the moment that I actually came to the space of this is what I'm supposed to do. I didn't know it then. I didn't know I was going to be a coach. I didn't know I was going to be a coming out coach. I didn't know I was supposed to be out here like, speaking and influencing people's lives. But in that moment, that seed got planted and it took about 10 years from there before I finally landed in this beautiful work that I get to do each and every day.

So, Chris, I have a question, a thought for you.

Yes.

Think of any female celebrity that you might say, oh, is attractive. Now picture that same person with a British accent.

Yeah, I know what you do with me. I agree.

Yeah, British accents are it. All right, Rick, thanks for that little Southern accent.

No.

Oh, I love Southern accents. Oh, I love Southern accent. Oh, yeah, you like them too?

Oh, yeah, yeah.

What is up with it?

I grew up in the south, so I was surrounded by all these hot.

Well, you have a Southern accent. Where were you from originally?

It'll come out the more, the more loose we get on this show. It'll probably. Y' all better stop that shit. No more.

So where are you from originally?

Well, I actually grew up. I was born in Colorado, grew up in Northern California. But then through my formative years, I was in Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Bill Clinton territory. Oh, yeah.

I like that neck of the woods.

By the way, there are podcast shows in the south and in the uk Then they both say that celebrities, if they have a New Jersey accent, much hotter.

Yeah, I'd like to hear that podcast.

Okay, well. But the honest truth is, that's the only reason I struck up a conversation with Kalowicks was because I just found him.

Did you just call him Mook? Kalowitz. That's my new name.

Mookie.

Dude, I love it.

Hey, we just created something.

We just created that. All right, so I'm Mookie. Hey, we got a new one.

We got Mookie Gallowitz.

Mookie Gallowitz. All right, so I'm Mookie. So Mookie's got a question for you. Trigger moments. That guy you meet in some London bar that you didn't have sex with. Bullshit. But that guy there.

Okay, okay.

But really, what I'm getting to.

I got naked with him, but there was no sex. I know I'm starting to sound like Clinton, but you know there was no sex. I know.

Exactly. Well, how do you define sex? I was naked with them. So here's the question for you. There's triggers. This is true for anyone coming out. And when I say coming out, not just sexually, I'm saying coming out in any capacity, when they really live into authenticity. Well, I'm assuming, is that true, that there's a moment that kind of pushes you over the edge and you decide that, no, now it's time I start being the real me.

Well, I'm going to flip that right back to you, Mike. When. What was the trigger for you? When you realized, I need to be an entrepreneur. What was the trigger when you realized you needed to be speaking on stages? And the answer is, yes, there is a trigger that triggers every one of us in every frickin aspect of our lives.

That's totally true, Chris. Same with you. You were triggered.

Yeah, well, yeah, because I was working a job and I was like, you know what? I don't want to do this job, and I want to do something on my own.

Yes, you get fed up, for example. It doesn't have to be fed up. What triggered you, Rick, to become a coach on this topic?

I had been laid off from my job, and I was like, I'm done. This was the second layoff in a row, and, like, I am so done over working for somebody else building their businesses. And the last one I was in was a.com. one that actually survived. And we went from zero to like 5 million in revenue in a little over two and a half years. I was the marketing, marketing sales guy. I drove him forward. And then I came back from vacation, and they said, well, we're letting you go because we need to cut back. And we know out of the whole team. Okay, so third guy hired out of the whole team. We know you can survive. I'm like, well, thanks. Thanks a bunch. And that's the moment I said, I'm not doing this anymore. I didn't know what I was going to do, but I knew I wasn't going to do this anymore. So I did what I had been doing. I was marketing and branding guy. So I went and started doing consulting. And then I started to realize I've created a pretty good life on the other side of the closet. I've got a great relationship with my wife. I get my kids. I'm open and out in a very healthy way. And I thought, this is the kind of work I want to do. So, of course, I went immediately to, oh, okay, I'll become a therapist. And then the more I looked at that, I'm like, heck, no. I don't want to spend three years getting that. No, I don't want to do it. Then suddenly, my whole business was filled with coaches, and they kept saying, you're more than a consultant, Rick. You're a coach. You guide us through this stuff. And then suddenly, those two worlds collided of, I'm coaching and I want to help people come out. And I hung my little shingle and said, I'm doing coming out work. And then I went and got certified.

When you came out, you said you felt more comfortable in your own skin. I assume for your daughters, your wife at the time, for them, it must have been such a monumental shift. I assume there was anger and disappointment or maybe not. What was that like for them?

Yeah, I mean, for my wife, definitely, you know, 13 years of marriage, you come home from a trip and you say, oh, by the way, frankly, my dear, I'm gay. And it's like, okay, what is this? You know, what's going on? My kids were very young. My oldest was 4. My youngest was 18 months old. And the oldest knew what was going on, Just that mom and dad weren't going to be together. But then as you come out, so do the people around you. They come out, obviously, as individuals who now have a gay member of the family. But then they also start to come out to themselves of who they really are. And I watched this, especially with my wife. She Came into her own over the next six, seven years. My kids obviously growing up in this world, and my husband now. I just got married. I don't know if you knew that.

I did not know that.

Yeah, I got married New Year's Eve.

Congratulations.

He's been in their life for 13 years, 13 plus years now. And so they began to come into their own. And I have to say, love my kids dearly. They are two of the strongest young ladies you'll ever meet, and they don't take anybody's crap.

You know, the greatest lessons I think we teach our kids are not verbal. It's our own actions. Right?

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

We want to take a break and ask you some questions, but before we do that, I just want to ask you one more question about the. I want to start digging into a little bit the numbers, because our listeners are like, okay, 16 minutes. We haven't heard numbers yet. When you decide to become the coming out coach, focus on this market. What was the startup like financially for you?

There was very little money there to do anything with. And I was designing my own websites, I was doing my own pitching, I was doing everything. And then money started flowing and I started putting money back into the business immediately.

But weren't you terrified? I mean, if you're not making money.

Oh, my God, yes. I was scared to death.

Scared shitless.

Yeah. Because, I mean, I've been doing that, you know, I'd been doing consulting and stuff, making a pretty decent, you know, income, just doing stuff for my old clients and stuff, being in the hotel industry, going and, you know, knocking on doors. And then suddenly I start to see this new thing forming. And I remember, man, Mike, I remember the day that I sent the email out to all my clients saying, you guys know, I've been doing this. I want to be a coach.

And.

And I'm letting you know that as of this date, two months down the road, I will no longer be doing any kind of marketing and branding consulting. I'm putting my heart and soul into it.

I can even hear your voice. You sound like you're nervous again.

Yeah, it just shaky, you know, man, those fingers were shaking the whole time because I'm like, I'm getting ready to cut off my income.

Yeah.

The beautiful thing is, is when you commit, everything else starts to happen.

What's harder? Coming out of the closet, literally, like, you know, sexually, or coming out and saying, I'm no longer do this type of work, I'm doing something new.

They're just equally as hard, really hard, because you're giving up what you know, so to speak. You know, you don't. You know yourself when you come out of the closet, but then suddenly that self you've been pretending to be, you're saying goodbye, you're rebirthing. Well, the same thing's happening when you say I'm walking away from my job. That income, the things I know to do day in and day out when I get up and drive that hour and a half, you know, in LA to get to work and that hour and a half back here. You know what you're doing now? You're the entrepreneur and you've got 50 billion things. You got to know what you're doing, and it's all riding on your shoulders.

It seems so much easier just to stay the way we are, Chris.

Yeah, well, it's like a paradigm shift. It's like a shift in your. A fundamental shift in your identity.

Yeah.

Which is, again, in both cases, it was the same. It's the same. It's a major shift.

Yeah.

I'm just thinking it's so much easier to stay the way we are because we're familiar with it, but it could suck.

Yeah.

All right, cool. Here we go. We want to see if you're really gay or not.

I got game show music. You want to play it?

Oh, yeah.

Put it on.

Put it on. So we'd like to welcome you to the GLBTQ trivia game. That's gay, lesbian and bisexual trivia. Q.

Okay.

Yeah. Gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, queer. And there's a whole nother list of Alphabet letters that go down the list.

I thought the T stood for trivia and the Q was, like, questions.

That would be because you're a straight white man.

So I already failed the first. Well, we have another contest coming up later where we will have another trivia contest where we'll see who's. Who's gayer, me or Chris. Oh, all right, first question. Do you want to put the music back on?

It's only a 33 second clip.

Question number one.

Oh, okay. Roy and Silo are a couple of gay blanks in the Central Park Zoo. What is. What are they? The blank is obviously a blank. Roy and Silo, are you ever asking you?

Oh, no, no, just you. Just you.

They're. They're the penguins.

Wow.

How did you know that?

Because I'm gay, damn it. Wow.

Here's what's funny. We're sitting here before this, that we do this one, and we're testing each other, and we're like, is it The. The zookeepers. Okay, so you're one for one. Next question. What is a Boston marriage?

Well, that's a tricky one because I've heard it a lot of different ways. So I say a Boston marriage is.

As G rated as possible because it's a G rated answer. That's the only hint I can give you.

Okay, well, then I don't know. Because if it's G rated.

Well, here's what the answer is. Tell me if this is something you'd agree with. Then. It says the name given to a romantic relationship between women, possibly, but not necessarily lesbians in the 1800s. Okay, yeah, that sounds legit. Okay, so that works.

It sounds legit. And it's been fluffed up. They had their own fluffers to make that one happen. To become even more lesbian and butch throughout the ages.

Okay, okay, next question.

Question three.

You guys are impressing me that you know this stuff. I mean, it's kind of like, wow, they really.

We did our research.

Yeah, he.

We got three sponsors.

Mike didn't do his research. He's like, let's see. Oh, Christina, can you go.

Question 3. Where does the term lesbian come from?

It's the wicked stepsister of thespians.

Oh, that's right, the thespian. No, no, no, no, no, no. Actually, no, no, I know this one. It's the Lesbos island. The island of Lesbos.

From the Greek island of Lesbos.

Island of Lesbos.

I knew that from watching lesbian porn.

That's a half.

Because they referenced that.

Okay, terrific.

Okay. That was awesome.

Thank you.

It's very profitable. By the way. What is lesbian porn?

Oh, I. Yeah, the porn industry.

Supposed to be, you know, Mr. Profit.

I know, I know.

You got to catch the jokes when I throw them at you.

Okay. My wife might be listening, so let's continue on. All right, I got a question from you from Ellen DeGeneres. In the TV show Ellen. Not. Not her. Her talk show, but the TV show Ellen. To which actress? No, no, I'm sorry. In the TV show Ellen, where did Ellen DeGeneres. DeGeneres character come out in the airport? Bingo.

Wow.

All right, one more each.

All right, true or false, at the time of the Stonewall riots, it was illegal for men to dance with men or women to dance with women.

That is very, very true. It was illegal to even be in those bars. Have those bars. Everything about it was illegal. No.

Well, it's false.

What's the proper answer?

It was illegal for men to dance with men, but not for women to dance with Women. That's a tricky one.

All right. That was a tricky one.

Right?

All right, now here's the last question, but I'll give you your choice. You can answer this one. How many children does Rosie o' donnell have? Or who plays the bride in the birdcage?

Oh, the bride would be Nathan Lane.

Okay, well, that's the gay couple, but there's the actual. The bride of the straight couple.

Daughter in law.

Yeah, Yeah.

I don't know. I just know she's really beautiful.

Calista Flockhart, and she is freaking beautiful. And she's married to Harrison Ford. That's correct. Okay, you got an 80%. And the only reason I can give you an 80% is because you didn't get the question Chris asked you.

All right, thanks for playing.

We appreciate it. You are legitimately gay.

These. You know, there's so many other questions you could have asked about legitimately gay, but that's okay.

Okay.

They're not. They're not G rated, so we couldn't really.

No, guys. Oh, my God.

No, no, no, no, no.

This is a G rated show. Okay, so let's get back to.

Yes, back to our show.

Okay, Back to the questions. You just want to say something, Chris?

No.

Okay, so I want to get back to the financials now.

I think he was just breathing.

I was breathing. I was looking at our outline.

He pulled up the card and. Okay, yeah, so here, next question. I really want to dig into the financials for this half of the show. Yeah, you. You started out, you said it was a struggle, you were panicked, but then you told your clients that you were going to leave them. What was the response to your clients that you were doing marketing for, that you're no longer going to offer this to them?

No. Disappointed. But I was a smart business guy. I came at it from the perspective of, you know, when you guys started your businesses, you really, really dug into it. You really enjoyed what you were doing. It was your life, it was your passion. And as much as I enjoy doing this, one of the reasons that I decided to a not go back to corporate America was it wasn't my passion. I like branding, all this stuff. It's great. But I need to go really do what I'm passionate about. And coaching is something I know I'm passionate about. And I'm not gonna leave you hanging dry. I've got a list of five people that I would recommend can pick up the, you know, pick up where I left off and take you forward.

How do you know?

So it was like packaging you know, it was like packaging the message with a new solution.

How do you know what numbers to bill charge your bill rates when you've never been in a business before?

You do a lot of research, you do a lot of asking. I mean, before I even went into the coaching business, I mean, there's a lot of numbers out there, but I had to look at it from, okay, so we got business coaches, we've got executive coaches, you got life coaches doing all sorts of stuff. The way I've always done it for me, this is just for me. And my business is I actually kind of base it on how I would buy something for the surface that I'm buying. And it's never proven me wrong. I know exactly what I will pay, and I know exactly what I feel comfortable in, and that's how I set my pricing.

All right, so you didn't have a customer. You use yourself as the paradigm of what a customer will be like. What about your customers today? Are they folks like you, or is it someone else? Some other community that you didn't expect that's consuming?

Yes. In fact, last night was a perfect example of it. I got a referral from a gay guy. He referred me a girlfriend of his, straight woman. And she came online. She goes, I know what you've done for Randy, helping him get, like, really centered on his life and moving forward in his career and doing his dating stuff. And I also know you do some really beautiful work helping people come out. And by God, if you can help people come out of the closet, get on track and live their lives, then you're the coach for me. And I need you to help me in a career transition and get me back in the dating pool. Hands down, straight girl, I got a ton of money in my business, and.

Are you serving people through the more life transitions or career transitions, or are they really blended to be the same thing?

They blend. There is no. I mean, they may come to me like, she's coming to me with the career thing, but as soon as we kind of got through that initial conversation, before we even wound everything up and she signed the dotted line, she's like, yeah, I know I'm going to really want to work on this dating stuff. It all begins to blend because whatever's happening in her work life is probably a direct reflection of what is happening in her dating life. It's also a reflection of what's happening in her joyful part of life where she's not getting out and socializing. And I broke that down in that 30 minute conversation we had last night.

There's a million life coaches out there that she could select from. What makes you the choice for her as opposed to anyone else?

Most of them tell me it's the kind of work I'm known for, which is coming out is what inspires them. They see it. They see that that stuff that is like a big, huge, life changing moment. And then they overlay that on to what they're experiencing and they're like, this is as big for me as someone coming out of the closet.

So I'm going to add to it because I have my own perspective. If I was a client of yours, is that that there's an appeal to you because you're different than the community I circulate in. So there's an appeal there. You're not just, you know, I wouldn't perceive you as just another life coach. I know a thousand life coaches that are in my arena, but they're just the same, Rick. You're different. Secondly, you went through an experience that I cannot personally relate to. Therefore, I see there's more to be gained there. And quite frankly, there's almost this little voyeuristic thing going on. It's like, oh, cool, I know someone in that community. Now I feel better about myself. Is that a fair, realistic assessment?

It is a fair assessment. I can tell you I have had more people say to me, women, okay, let's take the straight women route. Because I have. I've had a lot of those and I have a lot of them in my practice right now. I come to you, A, because I like what you stand for. B, I feel comfortable with you as a gay man that I can open up and say some things I don't have that chip on my shoulder about. Okay, it's a straight guy, he may, you know, try to get in my pants, so to speak. Which would be really bad if a coach did that, number one.

Yeah. But it happens.

Doesn't feel threatened either by another woman. And I've had them actually say that, you know, I don't want to work with another woman because, you know, us women, we can be kind of catty, Right?

Right.

So it says a lot about where I stand. I kind of stand and I kind of straddle the fence. You know, I can be the strongest guy, which I'm a pain in the ass to work with, trust me. But then I can immediately slip into that really gentle holding space, you know, allowing them to just step forward, to just be themselves.

Are your best clients women?

Yes and no. From a stick to it, get it done, Stay with the program. Absolutely. From a. Let's make some really big transitions happen. If they're really committed, my gay guys can do it, like, in a heartbeat. Women are good for the long haul because they want to keep going and going until everything's done. But gay men, they're kind of. Maybe it's because they hook up so much. They're in and out. You know, they come in, they get it done, and they're out of there.

What about straight guys? Are they intimidated or frightened from you, what you're doing?

Yes and no. I mean, I don't have. I haven't had a lot of them. I've had maybe over the five years I've been coaching, maybe a dozen of them. And the ones that I've had relate to me as a guy. They don't even see the gay BS that a lot of people would. They're like, I like you, man. It's kind of like our relationship. We get each other.

Right.

So you, you know, the kind of guys that I've had are a lot like you. I know that's scary to think that there's other McAllen out there that it's not.

It's Mookie Witzes, by the way.

Yeah, exactly. But they get it. I wouldn't say they're, like, on that gentle side. They're just. They're like guys who are like, okay, you know, I want to strip out all the bs. I want to work with someone who's going to hold me accountable. It's also going to challenge me to go to that other little side of myself that doesn't get talked about a lot. Not the gay side. It's that, you know, that caring, compassionate, something underneath there that needs to come forward so that they can really be more successful.

Do you charge a premium over the stand? And I don't even know if there's such a thing as a standard life or business coach rate because of how you've positioned yourself.

I would say I'm right in alignment with most. I mean, my rates are 125 to 175 a session. If we look at it from the session rate, I don't really do that because it's a package deal. You work with me for three to six months. However, that's my regular stuff, my coming out people, I give them a little bit of a break depending on the situation, and here's why. And it comes back to who I was. When you walk out that door and you've Been married and you have kids, you suddenly have a whole lot of expenses going on. You've got divorce, you've got therapy, You've got two households. You're trying to get set up. You, depending on the situation, you may have a spouse that's really angry. And I've seen this on both sides of the fence with men and women that I've worked with. So if you come out of it and you've got a whole lot of financial stuff, I give them a little bit of break because I get where they're sitting, and I just feel like the last thing they need is yet another expense. But if you want to do the work, you want to walk through that door, we want to be strong. You want to really come into this life and be strong, you'll find the way. Now, here's the interesting thing. For me as a business owner that blindsided me that I never would have seen in my business. It was the hardest part of my business was to work with people coming out who were married.

Really, the people that went through the exact experience you did were the hardest.

Because they couldn't pay me without outing themselves.

All right, so let me ask you this question. These are the people I presume you're most compassionate about. You know exactly what they're going through, but they have no money, which means you can't sustain your business. What do you do?

It wasn't that they didn't have the money. Most of them have the money. But think about this, Mike. I mean, you're a married guy, so you kind of get this. I don't know, you know, how things work with you and Christina. But if you're in one of those marriages where all the money goes into one pot and one or the other of you is managing the money, you take out a $500 hit or 600 or $700 hit a month to pay for something, somebody's gonna go, where's this money going?

Yeah, yeah.

There's nowhere to hide this. You can hide your sexuality, so to speak, but there's nowhere to hide this. Taking money out. And I've had to get really creative in my business at times, sending invoices for, you know, consulting and, you know, all this sort of stuff. And there are times I'm like, man, if I ever get caught, I don't know what's going to happen here. But, you know, hey, if they want to make it happen, they make it happen.

And just in case my wife is listening, Chris, I want my wife to know I'm not Married to Christina, my assistant and grandma Christina. No, I'm not married.

I was gonna.

You're like, dude, you married Christina?

Really?

She's like 23, dude. And you're like, 70. What's going on? Yeah, I'm the coming out creep is what I am.

All right, you're not a creep.

I am a little. I am a little bit creepy.

Yeah, you are.

All right. Talking about creepy, you have a TV show coming out. Maybe. Maybe.

Yeah, I'm pretty excited about this one.

Give us the 32nd overview.

Okay. 32nd is this when you stand powerfully in what you do and who you are and what you stand for, which is, I believe everybody has the right to just be themselves and to come out of whatever those closets are that are in their lives. It's amazing how that message starts to emanate. I got a call from a producer this week who wants to talk about doing a show, working with people just like me who came out late in life, and we're gonna see where it goes. It'd be a documentary, probably about six to eight episodes. And I'm stoked. I'm really stoked.

If anyone wants an amazing speaker, Rick Clemons is the guy. Bring him on board. But I'll tell you this. You can probably get a little better deal today than about three months from now when he has a show and his rates, like, triple. All right, Rick, last question for you. And then we're gonna do our who's gayer? TV show talk show or whatever it is contest. Last question is looking back on your career, your business career, anything you have done differently to improve your financials, the profitability.

Okay, I'm not going to kiss your ass right now, but I am.

Please do.

One of the most magical things I've done in the last six months is follow the profit first protocol.

I love Rick Clemens, dude.

You know, I sat right there with you in that creative live, and that was the first time I got exposed to it. And From September of 2013 to now, I have every month, in every aspect of my business and some of my personal investments, I have put profit first into play. And I have to tell you, brother, I just paid cash for a car. Oh, my God.

That's awesome, man. Play the music. Hit the down.

Bam.

We got a winner. We're struggling.

There we go. Yes.

Paid cash for a car. Paid cash for a car.

Paid cash for a.

Take that debt. All right, thank you. You can get rid of the music now. That was awesome.

And that was a really cool. I mean, I always try to pay cash for my cars, but that was a pretty cool moment because it's been like, a lot of money's been going into this business over the last six months. But I held line every month, my brother. The profit went into that account, the money went into the tax account, the money went into the expense account, the money went to the owner's pay. And I tell you what, when I was able to go write that check for cash for that car, I was.

Like, I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud of you.

Right? What a feeling.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's a huge feeling.

All right, well, this is the segment everyone's been waiting for, quite frankly. It's the who's Gayer? I love this music. Both our heads are jiggling like 1970s hosts. The long microphone comes out. You know that one that's like a mile long with the little beat at the end.

It's time to play who's Gayer?

Who's Gayer?

Okay, so our host today is Rick Clemons, and the two guests on the show are Chris Curran and Mike Kelly. Mookiewits. Mookiewits. And Rick, we really poorly prepared you, but we want you to ask us whatever questions you feel is appropriate and then deem who's gayer.

Okay, cool.

So you're up. You can ask me or Chris or however you want to do it.

Okay. So, Chris, what genre of not talking porn here? Okay, I'm talking mainstream films or TV shows, But what genre of films usually turn gay men on the most.

Close your eyes, dude, and you got to try to win. Don't try to throw this.

I just know from. I don't know, maybe. I don't know, show tunes come to mind. I don't know what that means. Like.

Like.

Like.

Like.

Like Broadway.

What's your response?

I don't know.

You know, I. I know it's not like a Brokeback Mountain, which you think. I think it turns on straight women. Honestly, Gay men?

Or is it the. Maybe my answer should be the chick flicks.

The.

The Rome. The.

Yeah, that's what I would say, too. I think like a chick flick. Not. Not a gay movie. Oh, okay. What's the right answer?

Really?

What's the right answer?

Like the vampire movie. Oh, they love. Yeah, yeah. American Horror Story, sort of. You know, the Bad Boy that's, like, just built and ripped and all that sort of stuff.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Good try, guys.

Okay, next one, next one.

Okay.

Okay, so next one, who is the host of Project Runway.

No clue.

Heidi Klum. Suck it, dude. Fucking suck it, dude. Suck it. Next.

Next. Mike. Got that. Mookie got that. Jeez. Okay.

Who, by the way, is gorgeous, and that's a great show.

Who in the recent years. It can be any of the recent years. Was voted Sexiest man Alive. And his cover photo, he was naked.

Mel Gibson.

No way. No. Ryan, who's that guy? He's a very good looking guy. He's a comedian, actor. He played Green Lantern, which was a horrible movie. Ryan something is the one I go with.

Okay.

Either.

Not Brad Pitt.

No.

Dude, you're so. You're thinking like a chick from, like, 1980. Get gay, dude. God damn, you pissed me off.

Okay, I'm gonna give Mookie a little bit of points for that one. But it was actually Adam Levine.

Oh, from the Voice.

Yeah, yeah. He did that cover where it was just that girl's hand over his crotch. And that's.

And he's all tatted up.

He's all tatted up. And yeah, he's just. He's one fine man, so.

He is one fine man. So the whole family at my house, my daughter, my wife, all I go crazy about him and I see it.

Really?

Yeah, dude, he's smoking, bro. Oh, okay. Last. He's smoking, bro. I'm, like, all pissed off at you. Okay, last one, last one, last one.

Which of these terms is a label used in the gay community to refer to a gay man? Okay. Twink, bear, Daddy.

They all sound legit.

Oh, God.

I'll let you go first.

Well, twink is out for me. I don't think that's the one.

I'm gonna say daddy, so I'm gonna say bear because I think it means, like, it's a hairy guy.

Well, you both got it right. But all three of them are actually labels we use in our community.

Interesting.

What's Twink mean?

Twink is a young, slender built guy, kind of effeminate, so kind of a younger, just skinny little guy. So that's Twink Bear. You got rights. Big Berry Harry Bear guy. And then, of course, daddies are daddies, guys that really like older men that are into the whole daddy thing. Okay, there you go.

So tune up our music. Okay, so here is the. Our talk. The talk show. It's a contest. Now, we need to know who's the winner of today's who's gayer?

Oh, of course. You know, we have to give this to him because he's the host of the show. Mookie Gift. Yes.

Thank you. Brother. Oh, man, I'm taking that one home. Thank you. We got all the music playing now. All right, Rick, first of all, you're of blast to be with. I love when people can just be themselves and poke fun at themselves and poke fun at others and are just rocking out in their own skin. So, dude, it's been an honor having you on.

You too, man. It's always a pleasure. It's always fun to poke you too.

Thanks, Rick. Thanks for sharing everything.

All right, man, we'll see you later, brother.

Okay, take care. Thanks, guys.

All right, see you. So we're going to do the.

We got to do a sponsors. I want to do a recap.

We're going to recap what we learned.

Yeah, but first I want to talk about our sponsors.

Okay.

This is our hook. So that people listening in are forced, you know, because you can tune it out early. Yeah, but I mean, I mean, listen, listen. Nextiva is so awesome. You want to be here for them.

Yeah.

Nextiva.

Nextiva. Nextiva. Voice over IP phone system. It gives you the capability to have a professional business regardless if you're a one person operation or if you had a thousand people. But it really is targeted at the small business. 10 employees or less. It's very affordable. I've been using the phone system now. I'm thinking about five or six years. I love the phone system because it gives you that professional presence and so forth. It's a very valuable deal. It's great.

And it's like all different extensions. Everyone has their own voicemail. A full phone system.

Full phone system. You can pick your individual phones so you can have a very sophisticated, one more basic one. I have a conference phone. Also one of those Polycom things. Oh yeah, and we have Ron, who may be sneaking in for one of our episodes one of these times. Ron works from the office. Office right next to me is one hall, one door over. But he's also works from home. He's got full set up there too.

Oh, that's cool. Nextiva.

Nextiva. Fundera.

Fundera.

If you need funding for your business, one stop shop, you just go to fundera.com. say you need to buy some capital equipment, say you can't cover payroll, say you need money for whatever reason. They can be the source. Now here's my little tip, everyone. If you can't cover payroll, that's a big warning that you're not running the business efficiently. You gotta become more profitable. But Fundera can get you past those squeaky spots too, right? And then another sponsor kind of like the girls over AT T sheets because they're so nice to me. So Kelsey and Kelly, if you're listening in T sheets, does time tracking. And more and more companies are using part time employees, 1099s, full time employees. But in all these different capacities, you need a way to track who's doing what, when, and where. And the old paper stuff like, dude, this is 2015, bro. Get on T sheets. All right, man.

There you go.

What did you learn from today's episode?

Well, I thought a big, big thing that I learned or was reinforced was about authenticity. It's, I think power, personal power comes from being authentic. I think when you. When you are who you are 100% and you're so much who you are that you even forget who you are. Like, you don't have to go and tell everyone about it. You just are it. I think when you become that, that's when you can put all your power and energy into your business. And if you have good skills, you can become profitable.

Yeah. You know, I love about Rick is the same thing, like, we're making fun of each other. We're poking jabs at each other. When people are truly comfortable in their own skin, they use that. That as energy in a positive way as opposed to taking offense. Or I can act this way and diminish from it. Rick really puts himself out there, and then he emboldens other people to do the same thing. So I love that. I like the talk about being a minority. What I found compelling was Rick said, you know, he didn't say they were his best customers, but he attracts a lot of women. Now, what I found is that when you're a minority, meaning you're the only representative of a certain ethnicity or sexual preference or whatever in a different majority group, that you are instantly recognized. If you're the only gay kid in a whole school ever knows a gay kid, and it becomes actually your strongest asset, you now can leverage that because everyone will recognize you right away, or you could use it to kind of push yourself in the corner. Rick is using that very effectively to get exposure with a different community, women. And he's doing an exceptional job at it. I thought that was pretty cool. We all.

The lesson there, that is cool. And I. And another thing too is the difficult conversations.

Yeah.

Have to be had. Like, and I think entrepreneurs and business owners who want to be more profitable. You know, the whole, you know, his book about coming out and all that, that's just, you know, you could use that as an analogy about getting Real with yourself. But some of these business conversations about your operations and your systems, some business owners, maybe they're kind of shying away from facing the truth. And it's. When you face that truth, it's helpful, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, that's.

That's my favorite insight. Thank you for sharing that. I also have an insight about you. I got a little trick I'm doing when. When someone's talking like Rick was talking. I've done this in other episodes too. I look up at you, and you feel compelled to, like, not acknowledge me. So you start saying, you go into a very serious mode. When I look up, you're like, yeah. So I started looking at you during the dumb points. Like, he would. He was talking about, like, you know, in the gay community, this is a popular term. I look at you and you go, so that was funny. All right, our little fortune cookie. Let me crack it open. Our sound effects.

I get paid a lot for sound effects.

And the fortune cookie says, a wise man should have money in his head, but not in his heart. Jonathan Swift. Ooh, dude. A pleasure as always being with you, Chris.

This has been a great episode. Thank you. Mike Michalowicz. You're the author ofProfit first mikemicalitz.com Yep.

And you are the host of Fractal Studios. I mean, you run this facility. If you have a podcast, come see Chris Curran and do what I'm doing. Yeah.

Or if you interested in doing your own podcast show.

Dude, Our longest episode ever.

Yeah. Thanks, Everybody, for listening. Profit First Podcast.com is the website all our previous guests are there. Some rocking shows, man. And we're gonna be back soon.

Download the out of this program. We want to hit big numbers now.

Yeah. Thanks, everybody.

Later.

See you.