Episode 120: Evaluating Our Ecosystem with Pam Slim

Dude, we're rolling here. The thunder's rolling through outside.

So I wanted. So you're tuning in to the Prophet first podcast, and right now you are highly encouraged to green to. Oh, my God.

Is that Daddy Fatback? Is that Daddy Fatback?

She's wondering who's talking.

We gotta cut that out.

No, you never cut anything out. You just go with it.

So you've just joined the Profit first podcast, but here's the thing. We're about to start the show. You have to scream and grunt along with us. If you're listening to this, take note of it. So if you're in your car and you want. You close your windows, do whatever you gotta do. Yeah.

How serious are you about profit? Grunt it out. You know what I'm saying?

That's right. Cause it's time now for the Profit.

First podcast, episode 120 with Pam Slim. Oh, guys.

Well, there.

She's there.

We can hear you. That's awesome. So a few episodes back, remember the. Our guest who was barking like a dog?

Oh, my God. That was. That was Josh. That was Josh Patrick.

Oh, man.

Oh, man.

That was tremendous.

Horribly beautiful.

Well, welcome everyone, to the show. I'm Chris Curran, the founder of Fractal Recording and pause your life.

Ooh, Pause your life. I thought you say more than that. I'm Mike Michalowitz, the author of Profit first, my newly released book surge, and then a collection of amazing books for your library, you know, also. And I'm joined in studio by Christina Bulldog.

Hey there.

And you are listening to the Private first podcast. So we're discussing all elements of profitability. I mean, just think what we've been talking about. How to be the young guy in an old man's world and still be profitable. Last week, Persuasion out the yin yang with Roger Dooley. And today we're going to talk about the ecosystem that surrounds you. It ain't just clients. Pam Slim says there's other people too, that matter, and you aren't thinking about them.

That's right. You can listen to the show anywhere you hear a podcast, literally anywhere. Itunes, Stitcher Tuning Radio, any podcaster you use. And you can also also see every one of our shows on the website, profit first podcast.com. that's the website, www.profitfirstpodcast.com. it'll bring you to Mike's website where all of our episodes are. There you can comment and ask questions. It's a great place. And this show is all about profitability, and I love that because, Mike, you've drilled it into my brain. Profitability equals sustainability. The only way your business is going to stay open is if you're profitable. And revenue might be a sliding glass door, but profit is a whole lot.

More out of the park.

Jeez.

Grand slam. That was a good one.

Oh, wow.

I can't tell you how many people comment Chris saying, oh, clearly you guys prepared that in advance. Like, you know, it's coming your way. Mike. No, I am a poetic genius. Let it be.

We prepare nothing.

Dude, what have you been up to, bro?

You know, I want to. This may be crazy, but has anyone else. If you're listening to this, have you ever thought of this, that you wanted to buy an RV and just drive around the country? Yeah, right. Everyone's thought of that. I want to get a big RV with pause your life written on the side and just, you know. And I want to have. Check this out. I want to have retreats. They're going to be called rolling retreats because they're going to be inside the rv. Yeah.

That is neat. That is neat. Anyway, going to town, my friend Larry Prager, I'll call him out. I was having lunch with him and he goes, oh, I'm an RVer now. I'm like, what does that mean? Like, well, you know, I'm at the age where I'll take an RV and I RV'd around for the last two weeks. I'm like, you bought an RV? No, no, I rented one for two weeks. I'm telling you, that is not an RVer. That's like an RV Subv or RJ Veer. Maybe it's an RJ Veer Junior Junior.

So what do you guys been up to?

Well, so my daughter is homesick. She's not using those words. So she's at school now as of recording this. She's about three weeks into it, four weeks into it, and just struggling a little bit, to be honest. And one thing, we have a morning huddle. I shared that in the huddle. Sometimes we share more personal stuff, right? And Erin's like, oh, my God, I know someone at the school. Why don't we hook them up? And she's struggling a little bit too, I think. Or did struggle. She's a sophomore now, and it may be a match made in heaven. So sometimes it's nice to reveal those things. What have you been up to?

I know I've been talking about it for a couple weeks and it happened technically already, but I'm super pumped. I have an audition on Friday. I'm kind of jumping Back in after a couple months of taking off and I'm finally back in the studio and getting things swinging again. And it feels so good.

Oh, that's so good. That's your chi. You gotta do that. That's your pause, your life.

Exactly.

So I want to know if we got any shout outs, Christina.

Well, we did, actually.

Ow.

We got an email from Kia Arian. I'm sorry if I'm mispronouncing her name, but she emailed you, Mike. And she said that Profit first was actually recommended to her by someone named Ben Glass. He actually is part of the Robin's Mastermind group. And she says after 12 years in business, she felt completely defeated and was ready to shut down her business and call it quits. She had a record year last year and felt like all her hard work was starting to pay off. Except the tax man came and wiped out all the progress that she made financially and slapped her back into debt. But says she barreled through Profit first in about one week. And it was like someone handed her a jug of cold water in a dry desert. And she says that she's in touch with one of our certified Profit first professionals, Ron Foudy. So shout out to Ron. And she said that he's just making a huge impact on her business. So shout out to Kia. Shout out to Ron. Keep rocking it.

Let me tell you how driven our Profit first professionals are in making profit. Ron Foudy, who's a member, ordered books from us and if you remember, you get Profit First Professionals Profit first at a discount. He emails and says, I found on Amazon for a dollar less. Can I get the discount, please? And it's used books like we. He gets a brand new pack from us at a discount. He found used books on Amazon and that's who you want your accountant to be. Trust me. We also have a shout out for one of our members.

I think, yeah, we can shout out another one.

What about Marcy?

Yeah.

Did you say that already?

No, I was just kidding. Shout out to Marcie Hanhart. She's another one of our Profit First. She's one of our Profit first coaches, actually. And she. I love speaking to Marcy. She's so energetic and she just makes you feel good about yourself. So if you're looking for a Profit first coach in particular who can help drive profit in your business in New Jersey, Marcy's the person.

Marcie Hannah. She actually. Yeah, she does works nationally too. I know she's done some work with manufacturers. She, while she hasn't declared a Niche specifically if you're a manufacturing business. I know she took one company that had a huge amount of debt, took them out of debt, and then now it set them free like that. She set the system and said, you don't need me anymore. And they're off on their own.

Be free.

All right.

It's amazing.

Yeah.

I have to say this. Excuse me. I have to say this. It's amazing what the Profit first professionals are doing for businesses. And if you're not sure. Profit first professionals are accountants and bookkeepers who've been trained in the Profit first methodology. And this is some of the awesome results they're getting. So we're going to talk more about that at the very end of the episode. But I mean, my God. And Barry. Barry, of course, I think. Is Barry a Profit first professional? An honorary profit.

Oh my God. He's like the honorary. Yeah, the master Profit first professional.

So, Barry, what does a business look like before implementing Profit First?

There's no activity, no giggle, no nothing.

See, that's the problem. People don't think about the giggle. I want to thank our corporate partners to make this show a reality and shockingly are still with us. Nextiva. We love you, Receipt Bank. We love you, Zero. Our new hero. We love you. And of course, Fundbox and Fundera. Her name is Pam Slim and we met on a boat.

No.

Then it was a yacht. Right, Pam?

Yes, it was a big one.

It was a yacht. There was ceviche, there was vino. And then mysteriously, a month or so later, the yacht, and this is true, it's in the news, burns to the ground and no one can find Pam Slim.

I didn't do it. I swear to God I didn't do it.

I'm not implying.

Are you blaming me? I totally thought you were.

No, no, no, no. I'm placing no blame. I am highly suspicious because I did see you sneak into the aft and do something with the battery system, but whatever.

On the starboard side.

On the starboard side. On the port. Starboard side. Her name is Pamela Slim. Slim. Pamela Swim.

By the way, it burned to the ground. Was it on land?

No, it was a wrong metaphor. It was a bad metaphor.

Yeah, but it literally burned to. All it is, is an outline of the boat in the water.

It's so tragic. I feel so bad.

I'm just so tragic. But I think the owner of that boat will be getting a new boat. I suspect.

I think so.

Pamela Slim is an award winning author, speaker and business coach. And potential was the person that plants fires on boats and A professional arsonist. She also wrote the best selling books, Escape from Cubicle Nation, awesome book that came out in 2009, and Body of Work, that was a 2014 book. And she's working on her third book, which we're going to start exploring today, about the ecosystem or ecosystem of marketing. Pam, officially welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me. Even if you call me an arsonist, I am so happy to be here. Let's light a fire. Like, metaphorically speaking, how many podcasts have.

You been on, would you say in your lifetime? Hundreds.

Oh, hundreds. Yeah, hundreds. Approaching thousands.

How many? Really? Wow. How many hosts have accused you of being an arsonist?

That would be you, actually.

Yes. I love it. Okay, that's a bit. It's a big victory. What is the ecosystem of marketing? What does that mean?

Well, you know, the biggest thing I've been dealing, like you guys probably have with business owners for so many years, 20 years in business in the last 11, working in startups. And the question everybody has as they finally launch their website and get things out in the world and then stare into the computer is, where are my people? Right? Where are you? Hello, Internet, where are my customers? Like, oh my God, how am I going to sell my product? And that can be a very lonely place for those people who have been there. Do you guys remember, like when you first. Now you have customers and, and people and partners and brand and top podcast and everything. But when you started, do you remember that lonely kind of feeling that you have? Right? It's just like I literally think I said, hello, Internet, are you there?

You have a recording, Pam, from when we first connected. Here it is. Do you remember this?

That's it, right? Yeah. I mean, that's like about when I started, right? When I started my blog, which was 2010, which is like, you know, 1900 in blog years. Right. But you know, so from that question, like the thing that I've discovered, which is like a wonderful discovery, if you've ever read the book the lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe and you know about Narnia, is that ringing a bell for you guys? Okay, there was a movie made recently for those of the younger generation. But you know, there's this whole world, there's this interconnected ecosystem that I found around your ideal client. And that ecosystem is really defined by all of the people, influencers, associations, events, things that are surrounding that type of ideal client. Right? So Mike, just as a perfect example, when you and I were on that boat, right, when we were on the yacht, we were sitting on Literally a watering hole, right? A place that was a place in person where probably collectively we could have just whispered and reached millions and millions and millions of small business owners. Because pretty much people who are huge influencers in that space were all in that boat, right? So that would be a very fantastic place to be if you were the kind of person who wanted to reach small business owners, because you could just turn and bump into somebody one way and turn the other way and bump into somebody else who absolutely shares the same interest in supporting your ideal client. So my thing and what I'm so passionate and excited about exploring in the book is how do we figure that out early in the entrepreneur journey, right. Instead of bumbling around and doing Facebook ads and blogging and just yelling to the Internet and doing a random talk somewhere, how can you be very strategic about how you identify the ecosystem that already exists around your ideal clients? And when you begin to connect with those folks. You guys were mentioning your sponsors in the beginning, right? Nextiva0 a bunch of other great folks. That's an example, right? Their clients are the kind of people who you want to reach. So when you partner together, instant profit expansion opportunities.

But it sounds like it's so hard, Pam, to get into that ecosystem. When I'm thinking when I start my business or start anything new, including this podcast, it's like, okay, who's the person who wants to listen? I'm not thinking about the complimentary vendors. When should I start? Where should I. Where should I start? And when should I start thinking about expanding the ecosystem?

I think you should. I mean, my. My premise is this is something we want to think about from the very beginning as part of the business planning process. Right? You think about your product. Is it, you know, what's your product? What's the niche you have in the market? What's your brand? What's your unique value proposition? You know, what's your business model? So you make sure that you're selling something that has strong profitability. Right? Right. Like, you know, you need to be doing that. At the same time, you want to be doing an analysis of who else is in this space. Who are the influencers? What's the quickest, best way in which I can begin to start to build connections with people? And really, the neat thing that I like about it, I'm actually, you know, I'm usually not cavorting on fancy yachts. I'm really like, kind of like just a neighborhood, like, person of the people kind of person. Like, I. I really just like thinking about the People who I'm serving, right? What's the reality? Where do they shop? Who do they listen to? What kind of apps do they use, right? Who are they influenced by? What books do they love to read? And when you begin to understand that first, it just means from the first moment when you're making decisions about where to spend your time in person and online, you're much more strategic in that process. Now you don't know until you get rolling, right? Like, you don't really know what exactly is going to lead you where. And the fun part, to me, the entrepreneur journey is just beginning down the path and all of a sudden discovering all these people that you had no idea existed, right? Can I tell you a quick story about that? About my kind of watering hole moment that.

Heck yes. Especially if there's an arsonist story.

There's no arson involved. But when I started Escape from Cubicle Nation, right, 2005, I was yelling into the Internet. You know, I'd been a corporate consultant for 10 years, so I knew there were tons of people who wanted to leave their job and start a business. Business. But you know, I was just like, I had an idea, I wanted to help them start a business, but I didn't really know where to find them. So I started blogging, right? And I had like my dad, my sister, my best friend for like the first six months, right, Reading my blog and not many other people. And then one day, on a whim, I emailed Guy Kawasaki. Do you guys know Guy? Venture capitalist, Art of the start, right? Totally awesome guy in Silicon Valley. And it was just on a whim. Like I had read a profile about him, I thought he was a cool guy. And I wrote this post called open letter to CEOs across the course Corporate World. Kind of my like strong, passionate post about what corporate leaders were doing wrong in the corporate world, leading to everybody wanting to leave. And I sent it to him on a whim at 10 o' clock one night. And he responded back 10 minutes later. And I swear to God, I was screaming. Like you guys were screaming at the beginning of this episode. I was like, oh my God. You know, it was like unknown suburban mom in Mesa, Arizona, like, gets a reply from Guy Kawasaki. So he's like, I love it. Could you make it a ten point post, right? Which immediately I did. Finished it at 2am, sent it to him. He posted it on his blog the next day. I went from my dad, my sister and my best friend to 20,000 people instantly from around the world. I had Bob Sutton from Stanford, my favorite, you know, no asshole rule Professor. I call him my adopted professor because I wasn't smart enough to get into Stanford, right? I had people all over the world that were resonating with my message because I connected with a huge watering hole, right? Guy's an influencer. We share interest. He was sitting on people who followed his work, which was extremely aligned with mine. And that was a way that totally opened my eyes to how you can begin to make these big jumps, right? So one of the things Guy said that I think is so important for us to think about as content creators, it kind of goes to the message in my last book, embody of Work, you know, is like, you're not just instantly going to have nothing that you have valuable to share and have people say, oh, my God, this is amazing, let me share it. You know, Guy always says people say that he has the Midas touch, as if what he touches turns to gold. He said, my Midas touch is I only touch gold. Like, you need to create great stuff, right? Create great stuff so that people who find it valuable, that they want to share with those people who they are signed up to serve. Right. Will find it to be valuable stuff. So, like, that, that was the beginning for me, where all of a sudden I'm like, oh, my God, like, there's tons. Then I met Seth Godin and Nancy Duarte and Gard Reynolds from President presentations then. And like, this whole crazy wonderful ecosystem of people who are serving the people who I want to serve.

You know, you had all these questions you started listing off when you identify your ecosystem. You know, just. You went through kind of a battery of questions. But one thing that triggered my mind is how do you get those answers? Do you interview clients? Do you ask them who they're influenced by? Or is it by observation? How do you get the answers to all those questions that we want to ask?

Yes and yes, right? Like, yes, Start with somebody who you know is the profile of an ideal client, and you can develop a simple little survey. You could just, you know, ask them five questions yourself, right? Who are the thought leaders that influence you the most? What was your favorite book? What apps do you use to run your business? Right. What associations are you a member of? What was a favorite kind of training class that you took and why? You know, something like that. So you can begin when you don't have many clients or really anybody, everybody's prospects, then you're going to get some limited data that way. I'm a big fan of the Google myself, right? And I kind of am like, you know, we forget sometimes that when you put things into Google, like associations in small business in Mesa, Arizona, that you get this gigantic list that immediately is helpful. Like, sometimes I annoy my clients because we'll be talking about this concept, and they're like, I have no idea where to begin. And I'm like, as I'm typing into Google. Well, let's start with, right, your business topic, associations in your city. And immediately we come up with information. So, like, I would challenge to an arm wrestle. I would win because I do have a black belt and mixed martial arts, so I totally win. But I would challenge you in arm wrestle. Yes, I do, actually. But I would challenge you in arm wrestle that in two hours, right, of good Googling and just being looking@meetup.com, going on Google, right? Going to somebody who is a big influencer, who you admire, and noting the places where they speak, right? That you could come up with a good straw picture of what the beginning of an ecosystem would be for your ideal clients. And that's where you start.

Do you have any sense for numbers? Is it in an ecosystem for a client? Is it 100 influencers? Is it thousands of influencers? Is it a few vendors? Is it hundreds of vendors? How big does the ecosystem get?

No, I mean, to me, you know, the potential ecosystem of people who are really, you know, potentially interested in serving the same kind of customers, which is where you get the network effect, right? You begin to have, you know, one to many kinds of connections. To me, the numbers are much smaller when you're creating the vision for yourself, like I would think about for you, Mike. Hey, here's your task. This is homework. Because I'm a coach, I'm going to assign homework. All right? When you think about what your goals are for next year in 2017, either in your business or this podcast, you need to know who are the top five in each of the categories, right? Who were the top five influencers? This is important. That are actually aligned with your values, with who you are as a human, which my criteria, I call them my High Council of Jedi Knight members. I would trust them to watch my kids, which, you know, are like the most important thing in my entire life, right? So they're not only smart and have influence, but they're good, solid people that share your values. So you should know the top five people that you really want to be aligned with that have a lot more influence in your market. You should know from the sponsor side, which you already have, right? Because you've gotten some amazing sponsors, but who are the people who are selling technology, right, that would be a perfect fit for the people that you want to serve in your business or your podcast. What would be any kinds of bigger associations, right, that are made that have hundreds of thousands of members that you could be partnering with? And then of all the events that are happening next year, if you could just choose three events to be at that would not only have the greatest number of ideal clients or prospects, but would also have as fellow speakers the greatest amount of people who could be peers, sponsors, and partners, then that is where it is that you should spend your time.

I love it. Someone told me once to put together a board of advisors, and then they whisked, they looked around and kind of whispered at me and said, that's actually your marketing team. And I wanted to throw this thought by you and then get your take on it. They said similar to you, identify the influencers, then form a board of advisors and wine and dine them. It's really for them to network with each other to learn a little bit about your business, but then to ask them to support you in the promotion of the business because they're influencers. What do you think about that spin on the influencer idea?

The part that I. In general, yes, you want to have people surrounding you that can be supportive of your business, but there has to be reciprocity, right? The key to me, imagine that you have a mirror on your forehead, right? So any kind of visibility that's on you in the form of like, a beam of light that's shown on you is actually bouncing in front of you. Who are the people that you serve? The way you get strong partnerships and alliances is in mutual benefit and reciprocity, right? People, especially busy people who are influential. They have people coming at them every moment, day and night, right? So you need to also be providing something unique and special and valuable either to them personally, which can be, like you said, in the form of really carefully, thoughtfully cultivated circles of peers that would be beneficial to them. Right? Again, either with a bigger benefit of helping them to get better partnerships to serve the market that you all do. But sometimes the way that we approach it, it's so much one way, right? Like, I want you to be promoting my stuff, you know, here's my book. Would you share about it as opposed to Mike, where do you and I cross over where we're both passionate about serving this segment in the market? What do you have going on? Right? What do I have going on? And how can we begin to work on this market together. To me, that's much more compelling. Where I called it, I think it escaped from Cubicle Nation. You know, we're all equal, fundamentally. Some of us have a little bit more experience than others. Right. But if you approach an influencer as somebody who has the key to just opening the doors to you, you're losing your power. And if you're relying on them to do your marketing for you, you're lazy. Right. It's your job to be reaching your market in a passionate way, in a mutually beneficial way. And so to me, the best kind of relationships that I've had with partners, with peer mentors, people I know that have been in my same space and also with sponsors, is where we're really working together as partners. Right. I know what their business objectives are. I know what it is that they're trying to do. I'm opening my network to them and they're doing the same thing to me. And in that case, it's natural, right? You can ask, hey, I have my book coming out. But Mike, you know that you and I have been working together in textbook and jumping on Skype all year. So it feels like the most natural thing in the world for you to do, right?

Oh, that's totally true. It's totally true. And there's nothing that competes with face to Face time. That boat ride was the first time we met face to face.

Yeah.

And remember Barry Moltz's name came up, Mike. Oh, you know Barry. And then it's like high fiving going on now. What about email? You said you emailed Guy Kawasaki. He comes back to you and he says, I want to help you out and I want your article, but I, and I suspect you even more. So every day I get a barrage, I don't even know how many it is, of emails saying, hey, I got something for you, Mike, to help you out. Could you publish my article with my links on your website? And it's like, oh, delete, delete, delete, delete. And I wonder if one or two those people in there are truly authentic good relationships, but they're burning that relationship before it even gets to start because of that email. What is the technique that you'd use to genuinely get in front of an influencer and build this rapport?

You know, it's a continuum. That's like any kind of relationship where you need to be building rapport. You know, I think about what Gaia said about the Midas touch, right? What does anybody who is a content producer or Somebody, you know, trying to share information with their market, they want great content, right? So number one responsibility is be proud of what you create. Like, what really lean in to what it is that the market needs and create something worth sharing. That's the number one thing that you need to take responsibility for. On the other side, it is just knowing that when you're building relationships with people, that's what it is. What I often do unabashedly, like, I'm a huge fan girl of many people whose work I admire, and I'm not embarrassed at all just to send an email saying, you know what, John Legend, I think you're awesome. You know, I love your work, I love your music, I love your social justice agenda. I think everything that you do is great. And I just want to tell you that. And by the way, I wrote about you in my book, and I think you're fantastic. Asking nothing, right? Introducing yourself, then you could begin to connect. I mean, the line between being proactive and stalking is a little bit of a fine line. So where you start to have the pinned pictures of people in your garage wall, that's. That's kind of creepy, right? It's kind of, you know, criminal minds a little bit. But you really do want to become, like, a student of where somebody is. I remember the first time I met Dan Pink in person. You know, we had, like, seen each other online tangentially. I had sent my I love you, you're fantastic, Dan kind of message. But then I went to an event where he was speaking, right? And the first time in line, I was able to see him face to face and say, hi, Dan, it's Pam, you know, great to meet you, and give him a little hug. And it's the whole thing series of building that relationship which is benefited by, like, the situation you have with you in Barry and I, right? When you know that other people who, you know, like, and trust are also friends with that person, you know, or if you say on Twitter when I like, hey, you know, I'm having a tech issue, or does anybody know a good app for this or that, and I just become somebody who's useful and proactive, then that's what naturally builds up the relationship, you know, so it's not like there's a certain text that you use in your email for the pitch to be perfect, because the art part of it is, ironically, you have to be super proactive, but you can't be graspy, right? You have to, like, have no expectation of anything happen. At the same time, be totally Optimistic that something will right. And just give the most authentic kind of outreach that you can with what you're sharing.

Is it okay to be fanboy? And let me give you some context. When. When I saw that list for our little boat ride and I saw your name on there, a few other folks, too, but I saw your name, I was like, oh, my God. Pam Slim. Like, I've heard of her. I read. I read your books. I'm like, I can't wait to meet her. But I'm like, it'll be all creepy. Like, I'm like, hey, you know, So I don't even know how to approach you. I don't know.

Creepy. It is not creepy.

I came up with a glass of wine. If you remember, my hand was shaking.

I'm like, I know you were shaking. So that was a little, you know, I was like, get yourself together, Mike. But no, it's not creepy. I mean, how good does it feel when you meet somebody for the first time and they genuinely and authentically say, you know, I love your work? Thank you so much. Right. For writing that book. I saw your talk on Whatever, you know, and I thought it was great. That is a fantastic thing to do. When we start to lose our fanboy or girl enthusiasm, I fear for us. We're becoming old and bitter and grizzled and our future is not bright. Right. Like, really?

Yeah, I got you. Let me ask you the flip side. So there was two elements going on. I'm a little bit embarrassed to say it. So first, I'm like, I can't believe Pam Slim is going to be there. Escape from Cubicle Nation, One of the defining books you have to read if you're moving into the business space. And then part of me goes, but I'm jealous. I wish I could have the success Pam has. And I'm nothing compared to Pam. And so this jealousy element kicked in for me. How do you navigate that? Because now in my mind, I'm like, I'll never be, like, as successful as Pam, and I'm not worthy. Or conversely, she doesn't deserve it. And I make up a BS story in my mind. How do you navigate that if you've experienced that?

Yeah, no, you know what? It's such a normal thing. And if you only knew Mike. No, actually, I have a very happy life. But, you know, I think you're doing pretty good yourself. But jealousy comes from fear. Okay, here's coach Pam for a moment. Life coach Pam. Right. Is that jealousy is coming. It is so normal and healthy to look at somebody's life or success and be like, damn, Brene Brown, you know, that was awesome. Like, you got on Super Soul Sunday. That is so fantastic, right? And for that moment, you can have that twinge where it's like, ugh. What it's really saying is, I want that too. I see myself in that place and I want that. That all right? That is normal and healthy. That helps you build the vision of what you want. What starts to get to the dark side of the force is where you're like, God damn it, Brene, you know, I deserve it more than you and who are you for not doing it? And I should have that. That's pure fear based. Because where our focus should be is in great getting great work out into the world, right? And serving people who we want to serve. I am so glad that all the people in my ecosystem who are adding their own unique twist and having breakout bestsellers and hit the New York Times list are doing that because it means the people we all care about are being served, right? We're solving the serious problems that we have in this country. We're making our economy stronger, we're getting better. And so what it means is you get that vision of what you want, but then you can create the path. One of my. The person I train with, Martha Beckham, who's become a really good friend, she is like Oprah's life coach, right? Has written a lot of best selling books and she often shares the story of, like, people will meet her sometime at a cocktail party and they're like, hey, Martha, you know, here's my book. Would you mind dropping it on Oprah's desk, like the next time that you're in the office, right? Would that be okay? And she's like, they are asking the wrong question. What they should be asking me is, what choices did you make to put you in the position for Oprah to hire you to write a monthly column for O magazine once a month, right? That's where you can learn from the process that people did and what worked for her with like three degrees from Harvard may be different than somebody else, right? But jealousy is normal. But when it starts to get to where you're like, it's envy and you want to take the person down. And every time you see them online, time to get a little therapy, right? And check yourself.

Hey, what's the name of your new book? Do you have it picked out yet? Can you share? I.

We are actually just talking about that. It's funny, I'm talking to my Agent right after I record this interview. So the working title is where are My People? That's. That's. That's the working title we have. Right?

I like that.

Yeah.

And are you.

Who are you publishing through Portfolio. Penguin Portfolio, who has published my first two books. I love them. I'm one of these loyal people. Like, when I find a team that I really love, I like to continue to work with them. I'm just that way.

I'm back with Portfolio, so I'm releasing my profit first. I'm re. Releasing. Are you working with. Who you working with over there? Who's the.

Nikki. Nikki.

Nikki. I don't know Nikki. I'm working with Kashuk, who was actually almost like a personal assistant to Adrian and now as a editor. And he's amazing. I bet you Nikki's amazing too. They're such a great.

I love it. They are a great team. I know. It's a good family of authors. Right. I'm happy to have you there.

Cool. Well, I know where your people are there in New York City and on Hudson street, clearly.

Pretty much.

Pam, where can. Where can people learn more about you.

And the upcoming book PamelaSlim.com?

You didn't get a chance to drink water yet. That was so fast.

I'm telling you, man, like, everything is there. So you can send me an email, my social channels. That's it. It's all there.

Hey, Pam, quick question before you go. I like everything you're saying. I like the fact that, you know, we can prepare and we can. We can answer all the questions that you threw out there, and we can ask successful people what choices have they made, and we can make the same choices at the same time. You know, you're talking about, you know, approaching, you know, celebrities or, you know, very influential or famous people, and not many people can get through to them. Like, if a thousand people try, maybe one or two will get through. So, I mean, there's stuff you can control and stuff you can do yourself to. Again, everything you've said so far, but whether they respond, whether Guy Kawasaki responds is not up to you. Right. So most people face failure in those situations.

So true. You know what? And to me, it's actually not. When you talk about influencers, it is not just celebrities and famous people at all. Right. It could be somebody who is. Who works at a company that has, you know, millions of customers that are your ideal customers. Right. Somebody who has influence. It can be somebody in a community. I just opened up a startup incubator right downtown in Mesa My hometown, which I'm super excited about. Right. A lot of the folks that I'm connecting with here are not rich and famous, but they're extremely influential. Right. So you want to include people who have huge reach, but you think about maybe who are folks that might, you know, and by all means reach out to them and introduce yourself. Like, I'm always going to be looking to build relationships with people. I admire John Legend. Oh, my God. Like, I tell everybody, including on this podcast and every other place I've ever published, that I want to meet John Legend, because sooner or later, somebody's going to, like, be as good cousin and introduce me, right? It may take me 10 years, and I don't care, because I'm going to meet John Legend. But the fact is that within your ecosystem, there's a whole bunch of people who have influence, who do not have to be rich and famous, Right? That's actually kind of a smaller subset of people who have it. The more that you contribute, work, the more that you become known, the more that your work becomes really valuable and interesting, then people begin to be interested in connecting with you.

Oops, sorry. I was. Sorry, we were queuing up a John Legend song for you. Sorry.

That was awesome. I thought that it was just like, you like my point so much that you wanted to kind of punctuate it with a very strong kind of music.

Sorry.

No, sorry. I don't know. I. I really appreciate that distinction you just made between famous people and influencers. And the other thing is, you mentioned before about, you know, don't just approach an influencer and ask them for something. You should say, hey, where do we cross over here? Where can we work together? But the fact is, if they're a successful influencer and you're pretty much a nobody, even if you don't have much to offer, right? I mean, what are you going to offer?

You're not a nobody. Right Again, Coach Pam in the house, you're not like, you are somebody who cares. You're less experienced. You have less experience experience in the space, but you care. So the first thing you want to do in any relationship is just learn, right? What are they doing? What books do they have coming out? What are important initiatives? What are charities that are important to them? You just want to learn, right? You want to learn what they're doing.

Yeah, but let's say I learn everything. Then I approach them and I say, hey, I can do this for you. I can put it on my website or I can, you know, let's say I Want a sponsor for my podcast? Hey, I can talk about you on my podcast. And if it's someone who's successful and savvy, they're going to say, well, how many people listen? And if the number's not big enough, then it's a business decision.

You're so true. But why buy? But you would never pitch straight. That would never be your first email. Right. You would get to know them. You just introduce yourself and saying, I love your work. You begin to talk with them on Twitter. You'd follow their pages. You become a member. That's how I did it. Now I have an amazing circle of incredible people who have huge influence, but it takes time. That's the part we don't have any patience with. Knowing who you want to connect with and then having the patience and the diligence to make it happen is that same diligence that you have in building a strong, profitable business. Right. Like, I don't believe in the blueprint overnight. You do these three things and magic happens. I do believe, and I've seen it. I've seen it with people who have done the same thing with me, right? As I begin to have more reach and influence, where they're positive, they connect, they show up, and they're present. Right. When books come out, they, you know, they post about it. I pay attention to that. Right. I appreciate that. I can see that they're engaged, and that's going to make them, you know, folks who are influential relax a little bit. So you're right. Like, it doesn't happen every time. But what I've learned is, why not begin that process, right? Begin to build the relationship. You wouldn't just walk up to somebody on the street that you've never met before and ask them for something like, why would you ever do that? So why do we do that the first time we send an email to somebody online?

Chris, we. And Pam, we gotta get going. But Pam, thank you. And here's a little John Legend for you.

I love it.

Yeah, we were cueing that up for you and shamefully, you heard a commercial. But thanks for joining us for today's show.

Thanks for having me.

We'll see you.

Thanks. Pamela, we got a rock and roll.

Because we got another guest coming on for next week's show in about three minutes. So thanks. First to our corporate partners, Fundera, Fundbox, nextiva, Receipt, bank, and Xero. And to pause your life, Chris, you want to share real quick with that organization of yours does.

Yeah. Pause your life. It's just hitting the Pause button. Stopping Just being a human being. I mean, going after profit, building business, building relationships. That's all good, but at the end of the day, you're, you know, you need time for yourself. So retreats and meetups. That's what we organize. There you go. Pause your life.org.

Pause your life.org Go there now. It's pause like pause. Not the cheesy, like animal pause fake, you know? Yeah, that's not bad. Pause your life.

It's. Hit the pause button.

Hit the pause button. All right, let's go right to the takeaways. Christina, you're up first. What'd you get?

Oh, so many things. Who are the top five influencers in your line of work and which one of them share your values? That hit home with me. When you're looking for people to connect with and just to help you grow your brand or whatever it is that you're looking for, for help with, make sure you're connecting with people who speak to what you believe in.

Chris, you're up.

Yeah. I think it's the patience. I mean, I love her strategies, and I think it's just the patience of, you know, think of just understanding that. I guess if it takes three or five years or 10 years to build a relationship, then I guess it takes that long. Yeah. So I don't know, maybe my personality is more to the point, kind of like, you know, let's do it kind of thing. But so, yeah, so maybe for people like me, it's a little hard to be patient for three or five or ten years.

Gary Vaynerchuk. Actually, I just saw a video he released, opening keynote, and he says the biggest overlooked component of business success is patience. And he goes, hard work, everyone knows, and you have to do it. But we ignore the patience part. So that. That hit home with me too. Jealousy comes from fear. I thought that was interesting. I thought it was really interesting. And I love Guy Kawasaki's. My Midas touch is to only touch gold.

Yes.

I thought that was genius.

Oh, crazy. Awesome. That's awesome. Well, we want to know your takeaways. You know, where you can put them. That came out funny. I really mean put them on the website. Www. Profit first podcast.

You know where you can put them.

Take note of that.

I didn't mean to say it like that. Profitfirstpodcast.com all of our episodes are there. They're like little blog posts. So you can comment on them, ask questions, and of course, you can rate and review our show. Wherever you're listening to this Podcast and ultimately, we'd like to thank Profit First Professionals because, you know, you or someone you know, you know, you need an accountant, you need a bookkeeper. Why not have a man or a woman wearing a cape standing behind you? That's driving profit to your business.

That's it.

Yeah. Profit is the way to go, baby, and you know it. You know it. How long have you been looking to be profitable? Has it been a year? Has it been more years? How patient are you going to be about profitability? If there's anything that can happen now, it's profit. All those other elements take patience and time. Profit should and can happen now for any size business. That's why I wrote the book Profit first around this concept. That's why Portfolio Hams in Print also is re releasing Profit First, a new and enhanced version of it. And that is why we started Profit First Professionals. This is a collection of accounting and bookkeeping professionals, business coaches too, who've trained on the Profit first methodology. Understand all the nuances of what it takes to make a business profitable. It's a behavioral shift and a mechanical shift and they will guide you through it. You need to count in a bookkeeper or business coach anyway. Why not get someone that does that and knows how to drive profitability? Go to profit first professionals.com right now. Click on the find Options right there on the front page and we'll hook you up with someone that can drive profit in your business starting today.

That's right. It's totally easy to find a Profit first professional near you. Or they don't have to be near you. They could be anywhere, really. But I mean, look, we're building our businesses, we're trying to be more profitable. We're always, I don't know, I always feel like I want someone on my side on my team, and that's what a Profit first professional can do do so. All right, well, that's it for this week. Thanks, Mike. Thank you, Christina. Thanks again to Pamela Slim and thanks to everyone in the background over there, including Obi Ron Kenobi and the Hawaiian lumberjack and M. So we'll see you all next week. Who's up next week? Mike?

Jack Daly. He shamed me on stage by out speaking me in Quebec City thousand. I was amazed by 500 people in the room. And this is the best speaker, literally the best speaker I've ever seen. He talks about sales and how to get it jacked up. So get ready.

All right, we'll see you next week. Thanks for listening. And we really are proud to be part of your profit journey. So we'll see you.