Episode 122: Write a Profitable Book with AJ Harper

Hold on. Before we get the show started, I need to hear. Hear from my girl, Fat Daddy Fat Back. Now, she. Like I told you, she said that. She said Fat Daddy Fat Bag, but it sounds like Fat Daddy Fat Back. I'll play it again here, one more time. Fat Daddy Fat Back. I guess whatever you want to hear, you can hear.

You know, I don't know, the listener's imagination.

No matter what you do, just take note of. Take note of doubt.

Sure.

Okay. I just wanted everyone to know that so my nickname can. If you. If anyone listen to show wants to send me an email, you can email me at Fat Daddy Fat Back or Fat Daddy Fat Bag. That's now an alias I have.

You gotta. Mike, you gotta have, like, a album cover for, like, a rap record with you on the front with Fat Daddy Fat Back underneath it.

I love it. I know, like, like, 20 strips of bacon in my hand. I gotta think of a good. Like, I may not make money, but I make bacon honey or something. I gotta think of.

Well, you have. We have wasted a perfectly good minute of the listener's time, but now it's time for the Profit first podcast.

Episode 122. Yeah. Boom.

We got whips and ch. Hey, now.

Oh, I need change. I need a change. Sound.

Welcome to the show, everyone. This is the Profit first podcast. My name is Chris Curran. I'm the founder of Pause youe Life.

And I'm. Yes, yes. And I'm Mike Michalowicz, the author of Profit first and Surge, which is still kind of in the fresh stage. So pick that up. And the Pumpkin Plan, Toilet Paper Entrepreneur and other books coming out your way. Plus Profit First. The revised edition's coming out. Christina. Yeah, Christina just saw the COVID She said, I'm. Oh, I've seen better. I've seen better. And you. You are listening to the Profit first podcast. This is a show where we explore every single stinking element of profitability. In today's episode, we're gonna be talking about how to write a profitable book when that actually makes coin, coin, coin, coin, Profit.

Thank you. That's right. This show is available wherever. You're listening to podcasts, any podcatcher, of course, itunes, Stitcher, Tunein Radio, and Google Play. And, Mike, I love this show because it' about profit. You know, revenue is a collection, but.

Profit is the best infection.

Or perfection.

Okay.

Oh, yeah, you. You were. You were. I think you have words already set in your mind of what I'm gonna say, so I thought you already. You probably did have perfection in your Mind.

So he wants to mix it up.

Yeah. So I wanted to throw something that he didn't expect. First ball infection. What the hell is he talking about?

So, by the way, our website is Profit, and we have a great guest. And we also give our takeaways from the guests. After that, we talk about the guest. Usually they're still on the line. We talk about them right in front.

Of their face, usually. Dude, we been up to, bro.

You know, I read this awesome book, and this might appeal to you who are listening. The book is called Rejection Proof, and it's about.

Shut up.

It's about this guy who, you know, he was. You know, he's an entrepreneur, and he wanted to do things, but he was always afraid of rejection. So he decided to face his fear, and he came up with 100 days of rejection. And he just started asking everybody all these wacky things, different stores. He would ask for wacky things. Like, he showed up at this guy's house with, like, cleats and a soccer ball and shin pads and said, hey, can I just play soccer in your backyard? I mean, all this stuff just to get rejected. But anyway, it is a good book. It's. It's. It's deeper than that as well. But I really liked it. Have you read it, Mike?

No, but I've experienced it. It's called marriage.

Oh, wait, no, I've never.

I have heard of it. I have heard of it, Barry. You.

So you've heard. You've seen Barry. You've met Mike and his wife, right? What do you think of their marriage? Oh, my God. Fade her up, please. Here we go again.

There's no activity, no giggle, no nothing. Yeah, I know, but you know, Gary of Gary. That's his.

His Gary.

Barry. Barry. You know, you and I were talking privately about this. I've introduced new elements to our marriage. Where are some of the things you can share publicly? I'm not. I'm not bashful about this. Where are some of the things I brought to our marriage? Now, that's really.

I'm sorry. To your marriage with Barry.

No, no. Barry told me he made some suggestions. Mike, you need this and you need that to really have a flame back in the marriage. What do. What did you suggest, Barry? You're gonna need a couple of horses, a couple of mules, saws, of course, hammers, nails, monkeys. Yeah, all that stuff.

The key to happiness.

I'll tell you. Oh, my God. The little piece of fat pack made all the difference. And we also. We know we did a move recently.

We Did a move.

How was that? How miserable was that?

It's not. Well, I didn't do a lot of the heavy liftings.

Yeah, we were doing all the setup.

Oh, yeah, yeah. It's third floor walk up, so it's 50 stairs. Actually, I counted this morning.

Oh, my God.

But it's good. It's good exercise and we have to park a block away and it's up a mountain. So it's definitely. My ass is going to look great.

You're going to have a fine ass.

We're all going to have really good butts.

And we had Gary Martin, one of our private first professionals, visit us from the UK Yesterday. He literally. Chris came crawling in to the workspace climbing this step.

But once you get up there, it's beautiful. It's a beautiful space.

We can see New York City from there. And all this different.

Keep a survival kit in your car, please.

Yes.

Oh, that's a good idea. Hey, do we have that shout out that I gave you or did you lose it?

I have several shout outs, but yes, absolutely. This one came in from Melissa Wirt and she. She just said that she had to email us to say one thing and that is thank you. It's been her family dream to turn their little side hustle into a full fledged family business. But until now, it has always cost them more money than it made. After listening to the Profit first audio book and then ordering the physical book, after loving what you had to say, she set up their bank accounts and this month they're posting their first profitable month. So shout out to Melissa. Congratulations on taking that first step.

Good job, Melissa. Here's a little whip for you. Oh, I don't know. I don't know why I did that.

She also is the one that sent us the picture of her little baby.

That was so cool, Melissa.

We can include that in the post, by the way.

Yeah, we gotta tack that up on our new wall of fame. Okay.

Oh, wait, by the way.

Yeah.

I asked Barry what. You know, Mike's new office is up three flights of stairs and up a mountain and all that over the river and through the woods.

Yeah.

What is gonna be the best looking part of Christina's body in a few months?

The bottom.

Oh, man.

The bottom. Oh, my God.

I got them. Apple, bottom. Jade.

Barry, you slide dog here. Barry, let's sex things up for you a little bit. Oh, yeah, Barry and Christine.

There we go, Barry.

So real quick, I want to thank our corporate partners that make this show a possibility. You know, we haven't recorded it in almost a month, so I. I forgot who they were. Do you remember?

Oh, my God.

Receipt bank.

Receipt bank. Who's at our profitcon?

They were.

It was awesome. Who else?

Fundera.

Yep.

Also at Profitcon. Fundbox.

Love them.

And Nextiva.

Yep.

And then the big X. Oh, 0 and 0. Our Premier. Our preeminent premier supporter. So thanks to all our core partners. We'll give you more details on them in a minute. But first, we are going to talk about our guest.

Yes.

You know, so many people want to write books and then fail to do it. Oh, I have a book in me. Yeah, you got a book in you. Then go out and do it. Then the people that do do it, the failure rate's huge. When I say the failure, the do do the people who do do.

I'm in the do do pile, actually.

Yeah. Well, most books fail. And so the question is, how do the select few become profitable at it? Now, I thought the best guest to answer that question would be my own co writer. Angenette Harper has helped me write all three, four of my books. Toy paper entrepreneur to my most recent book. Surge has helped me with the revision or helped me with revision of Profit First. That's going to be out soon. Plus we're working on another book together and I've learned all the tricks of the trade from her. So with no further ado, Angenette, welcome to the show.

Thanks. Thanks for having me.

Welcome.

I thought it was a 50. 50 if you'd hang up by now.

Right? Totally.

Hey, where do authors go wrong, Angenette? And when it comes to writing books that they want to be profitable.

I would say the number one thing is they publish too fast. So they try and get something out really fast, they write it fast, they get through the production phase fast, and they launch too fast. So they miss opportunities to write the best book they can, produce it in the best way they can, and then also take advantage of all of the launch opportunities. So it pretty much just lands with the thud.

But you and I know we make fun of it, but I want our studio audience to know too. Or our out of studio audience is, you know, the 60 seconds to write a book courses that are out there. I mean, there's a lot of that stuff like, you know, write a book in a weekend. Why doesn't that work?

Yep. The fastest, the fastest one I saw recently was 20 minutes.

Wow.

Yeah, I don't know how that's possible. I don't think you and I have even been able to, you know, come up With a. We certainly can't even come up with a title in 20 minutes. So I don't know how you write a whole book in 20 minutes.

We can't get past the Barry quotes in 20 minutes. Jeez.

No, no. So obviously the appeal is there because it seems fast, seems easy. What's the. From your experience, what's the right approach to writing a book that's profitable?

Well, I think, you know, you have to also just look at why that appeals to people to do it fast is because they don't understand what writing a book really does. You know, they don't know why they're doing it. You're a unique person in that you actually do make money from your book, but you also make money from all the ways you leverage your book. So from speaking engagements, and you started profit first, professionals and so forth. But most people have. They misunderstand why they're writing the book, and they don't have a clear vision about that. So I think it has to start with what are my expectations and understanding? You know, am I doing this because I want to make money? Am I doing this because I want to become a speaker? Am I trying to get more clients? I think once you understand what you're trying to do, then you can figure out the best way to approach it. But if you're trying to become an author, like Mike, who's a career author, I mean, this Guy has a 20 book plan, which basically means I'm in some sort of weird space time continuum for the next, I don't know how many years.

For the rest of your life, actually with me?

Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. I think someday you're just gonna, like, tell me you're gonna pick me up and we're going to some seminar and we're gonna end up in a cabin somewhere and I'm never gonna be able to leave.

It's like that movie Misery. Like you'll be trying to get out. I'll be drugging you.

That will be me. Yeah, that will be me. But seriously, I think that, you know, people don't. They don't know why they want to write it, first of all, and then they don't understand what they want happen with it. So that's where people go wrong, first of all, is not really understanding what they're trying to do and not having a clear vision for that. To be a career author like you, you have to care more about the reader than your own personal gain. I think that's. That's number one. So you, you know, you have your mission, which is to eradicate entrepreneurial poverty. And even though you may not have articulated that when you first started out, it's really always been your mission. So I would argue that. And so you've always been thinking about the entrepreneur from day one. You just really want to help that guy and that woman, make that dream happen, pull out of debt, realize their vision, all of it. And so you care about the reader. I think when people are trying, they're thinking about money or they're thinking about publishing really fast. There's a lot of ego involved there, and they're not really thinking about what do people need and what am I offering in this book? Because ultimately, books are still sold the same way, which is word of mouth. If your book isn't any good, nobody's going to talk about it. So you have to care about the reader and have a good vision for what you're trying to do. If you don't have that, then any bit of effort you have is pointless.

Yeah, I agree with the word of mouth. I think the. The ongoing marketing of a book. I mean, some authors launch so hard, they try to share with the world and it gets sales. But when you look at that book six months or a year later, the only determinant of that is word of mouth. So let's talk about writing that great book that targets the reader. How do you know what the reader needs to hear?

Well, I think you have to first think about who is your ideal reader. And most people say they go wrong. You can tell somebody's on the wrong path when they answer everyone, because it's even more than just demographics. You know, it's. You would say it's psychographics, but, you know, it's just the guy or the woman. It's just who is the person imagining exactly who's taking up this book and what their day is like and what their problems are. You know, when I work with authors, I talk in terms like, you know, chief concerns, burning questions, but it's really just, who's this person? What's their problem? You know, what kind of a jam do they need to get out of? You know, what do they want to see happen in their lives? Just really understanding what are their challenges. And, you know, that's where you start, is knowing who they are. And then. Which is what we talked about yesterday. You have to have a clear promise for them that the book is going to help them get where they need to go. And where is that? What is it going to be?

And, you know, we're you and I are working on our fifth book. Fifth new concept book. Really? I mean, this would be our six because we did a full rewrite with profit first, but with the new book, you know, I've been through the ringer a few times and I still have so much to learn. You're like, no, no, the concept's not clear enough. Could you just drive that home a little more? What that means, really, for my own education? What does that clear promise? How do you get there? And what does that really mean?

Well, again, you start with what's going on with your ideal reader. The person's going to sit down, read your book and have their life changed by it because that's why you write the book. Their life has to be changed. Otherwise, at least in this genre, I mean, I'm not talking about 50 Shades of Grey. I'm pretty sure your life gets changed when you read Fifty Shades of Gray. I don't think it's for the better, but I really could be wrong. But when I'm talking about genre of, you know, business or self improvement or personal development, you have to be able to help the reader move the needle and make an impact on their lives. So you have to get what their issues are. Once you do, then you have to figure out how you can make it better. What's your solution for it? You know, so we're working on a book right now, like you said. It's. We have to be able to say, okay, this is the problem that I need to dig myself out of. And then this is where I want to go. The promise has to be relief from whatever pain they're in and an answer for how to get where they want to go. And it's really simple. It sounds really simple. It's just that it takes a little bit of time to nail that down. What really is, what's the essence of it?

Could you give us the 30,000 foot view of the steps necessary to write a book? I mean, a good book, not the 20 minute book, but a really good book. What's the overview of that?

Sure. I mean, all of the. I would say that, I would say that the first part of it takes longer than. Let me, let me put the first part of it, which is, you know, getting clear about your reader, getting clear about what you're promising the reader and your core message for the book, which sometimes people call a thesis. You know, you might also call it just your short pitch or your tagline. Just getting that can take longer than writing an outline, can take longer than Even getting a few chapters read, because you have to get it so clear and so powerful and also distinctive. I mean, look, everything's been written, you know, everything's been written. So it's your unique take on it, and you have to be able to articulate that. Once you get that, it's pretty easy. Then the next step is to develop an outline, which is basically how you're going to deliver on that promise. What do you need to teach people, show people, in order to get them to the end where that promise is delivered. So that's just a series of key messages in an order that makes sense to a reader. What do they need to know first? What do they need to know next? And a key difference in our books and all the books that I help authors with is Story, that's the next piece. So people have a tendency to write a book where they just pontificate. They just tell people what they think they should do and they talk about themselves. But you've got to bring in story. Not just your own stories and anecdotes, but stories of other people related to that topic. And you have to be really good at telling that story. I think that's key. That's a make it or break it situation. If you don't have it in a book, people aren't going to remember it. Because when you teach somebody something, if you teach them with a story, you hit them emotionally, but you also make it easy for them to remember the story. So I think that's also really key when you're writing the book. Being open to some changes that might need to happen, being open to doing some research and finding more stories and thinking about things differently and getting feedback from others. So instead of just rushing to write everything and then sending it straight to edit, doing some exploratory stuff and making sure you get feedback from people. Is this working? What don't you understand then? I think if you're self publishing, you have to be very clear about getting a good editor. And actually it's a series of editors. There's three different editors. We don't have to get into that unless you want to. But it's getting a good editing production team that can help you polish your book, make sure it's as best it can be, and make sure you don't look like an idiot, you know, with whatever errors there might be, and then you're off to the races. If you have a book deal, of course, that last piece is handled by your publisher.

Ivy Tip. Don't look like an idiot.

Well, I just have a question. Do you think that a certain part of a successful book has to do with the length of the book? Because I know sometimes I know in some books that I've read I'll resonate with the message, but there'll be so much fluff in it. Is that necessary or do people kind of shy away from the tiny books even though they may be more meaningful?

No, I think people don't shy. I think it doesn't matter. The length doesn't matter. It depends on what is the correct length for this topic. It's not really about deciding length first. It's about what do we need to. Again, going back to that promise, what do we need to do to get that promise fulfilled? Can you do it in a little book like the Four Agreements or the War of Art or one of Seth Godin's little books? Okay, then do it. No problem. But if you can't, then you need to give it the time and space. But Fluff doesn't belong in any good book ever.

Right?

So let's talk about now the financial structure. Can you give me a sense of the cost for a self published book? And you also referenced publishing. What's the cost associated with that? And is there a better choice or does it depend on the circumstances you're in?

I always say this, if you're trying to make a decision about going for a deal versus self publishing, you need to base your decision not on. Not everyone has the luxury to not base it on cost. But I think it's short sighted. I realize not everyone has the cash to self publish, but ultimately it's not the main deciding factor. The main advantage to working with a publisher is it still does give you a little more credibility. That's changing, but it still does give you a little edge. But it's mostly their distribution muscle where they can get your book. And I would also say another factor is if you don't want to, if you can't put together that editing team and you really don't have the ability to put those key talented people together that are really experienced.

But will any publisher pick you up? I mean, don't you have to have a platform? Don't you have to be an established, recognized name for them to take the risk of okay, I think a lot of people listening to show may not be established that maybe they're writing their first book. I mean, how to write a profitable book. I sure people are coming to the show saying, hmm, I've never done a book. So if you have no platform you're not an established, recognized name. It's gonna be harder to get in with a established publisher. What's the path you should take then, to get to the point of being profitable with your book?

What path should you take to try and get the deal or to do.

It on your own or another deal? Not the deal. If you can't get a deal.

I mean, you know, you have to develop your platform whether or not you get the deal, because you still have to sell the book. I mean, I think that's the biggest. Two big misconceptions. Two giants. Gigundo, as you would say. Misconceptions are how long it takes. People are always stunned to find out how long they have to wait for their book to come out when they get a deal. I mean, it could be 18 months, you know, and that's after you've already delivered the manuscript. So because you're totally at the mercy of the publisher when it comes to scheduling, that's number one. The other biggest myth is they're going to market my book for me and get me on the Today show. That's not happening. So, you know, you still have to do the same amount of work to market your book, whether or not you're self publishing. And so, you know, at least with self publishing, you have control. You can set the price, you can set the release date. You get to choose your cover. I mean, you know, we're going through this right now, right, with the revised version of Profit first on the COVID So we don't have the same control that we would normally have.

Oh, totally. And even. Even things like endorsements. So Penguin, who. I really enjoy working with them. AJ And I went out there to the New York office. Let me know. Our editor, Kashuk, ordered a beet sandwich. I've never seen anyone order a beet sandwich. Orders a beet sandwich. And then he says, after this, subsequently, hey, I get endorsements. Who do you want? And he's like, we. And he says, you know, I really want big names for this one. Last one. I had entrepreneurs. He wants big, popular names. So, you know, I rattle off some big names, and he goes, well, do you know him? I said, no. He's like, well, how are you gonna get him? I'm like, well, you're Penguin. Like, everyone writes for Penguin. Just introduce me. I'll take it from there. He's like, no, we can't do that. So I think there is this misperception that the publisher is going to yield marketing connections, all these different things that I don't really understand why they don't. They didn't do the endorsement thing, but they don't. What do you think about that, aj?

What do you think?

I think that's stupid.

You passed the test.

It's the easiest thing they could do. It's just an email. It's just like, hey, can you just. Here you go. Here's this book. Can you read it? Or at least here's the synopsis of the book. Can you anything, you know, the easiest.

Thing in the world. It's kind of crazy. So, okay, so say we're going the self publishing route. I consider myself a hybrid author. I've done self publishing, I've done the deals with Penguin, but I've also bridged over taking a self published book, converted it to a published model. If I'm going to self publish, AJ and I need to do it profitable, what are the steps to doing it?

Okay, well, number one is you have to start marketing your book while you're writing it. So just clarify that. You have to get everything set up. You need everything set up at least six months out before your, you know, before your release. That's actually as close as you should get it. So. And by everything, you know, that's your website, all your social media, all your lists, all your press kits, your cover, everything needs to be all ducks in a row. Otherwise you're just going to miss one opportunity after another. So there's obviously can be expense related to that, but you know, usually they're one time expenses. Setting all that stuff up in terms of, you want to know the cost breakdown on producing the book?

Yeah, a rough sense would help a lot.

Sure. Well, you know, if you use a developmental editor, which is what I do, so that's the high level editing that's basically whipping your book into shape before a copy editor comes in and, you know, corrects grammar, syntax, spelling, etc. Developmental Editor. I think that's where a lot of people go wrong is they don't even know what that is. And you can almost tell when someone hasn't used one because developing a book takes another person and we really benefit from even having another person. Right. Koshuk at Penguins.

Right.

A developmental editor can be pricey. You're looking at depends on their experience level. So, you know, it could be several thousand dollars, could be $15,000. I certainly wouldn't expect to pay less than, you know, three or five grand for something like that. For copy editing, there's, you know, there's set rates, you know, you can go and get cheapo copyeditor on Elance or Guru that's based in the Philippines and will do it for almost nothing. But I don't recommend you do that.

Well, we have a recording, actually. I interviewed someone and I asked her what she thought about the book and she said this.

Take note of that.

Daddy fed back. That was the fee. So just so you know, that made no sense. I keep going. I ruined. You weren't. Yeah, you were like trucking through some good stuff and I totally ruined it. Keep going. I'm so sorry.

It's okay. I'm. I speak. It's all good. Yes. You know, you people have a tendency to go the cheaper route, but you really need someone who knows what they're doing. You need someone who knows how to copy edit a book and understands the style guides and has some experience with it. So in that case, you're looking at for like a 60,000 word book, maybe like 800, 1000. And then you need another person, by the way, that's not the same person. Key thing here, not the same person as your developmental editor. And you need a third person who proofreads. And the reason why you need all these different people is just human error. And it's the same at big publishers, mid tier publishers. You, you know, we do the best we can, but our mind fills in the blanks on errors and so stuff all is dismissed. So you need a proofreader then to go in after all is said and done. And that's maybe, I don't know, 4, 500 for a book that size. Then you have a typesetter, you can get them anywhere from, you know, super cheap again, but people can really tell when you have gone chintzy on the typesetting. So I would definitely budget, you know, five to nine dollars a page for that.

For a typesetter, five to nine dollars a page. So if it's a 200 page book, we're saying 1,000 bucks.

Yeah. And then, you know, you might need a hundred, one to two hundred extra for all your digital copies. So you're gonna create a version for Kindle, which is called a Mobi version. You're gonna create an epub version so that it can go up on no extra paths. You decide to do. And you might also create a PDF, so that's usually 100 bucks. Twitter bucks.

So done. Oh, there's more, there's more. Keep going.

Cover.

Oh, the COVID Yes.

So I tell people they should expect to pay at least 500, but for a great cover, I think you're looking at 751,000 1500. You have to, you know, you can go on fiverr and try and get one, but you really need a cover cover designer who knows what they're doing.

And people do go cheap on the COVID but readers do judge a book by its cover. You know, there's a reason that saying exists 100%.

People still buy books just because they like the COVID All the time. Every day.

Yeah. I spent and I mean this was. I subsequently had a discussion with my. The designer got down, but I spent literally $5,000 to get profit first designed because we went through so many iterations and we did it on a hourly basis. That was a mistake.

Don't do that.

Don't do that. That was a mistake. Surge was it cost me $750. Same designer, but we went on a flat rate. And I like both covers and the feedback is always very positive for all the covers. She actually lives. Who did the three books, the three most recent ones and the title and the COVID seems to sell books. I've, I've read some really horrible books that have an amazing title and they just move off the shelves. A.J.

Yeah, they do. It's. It's still, it's still the case. Book covers sell book. So. And if your book, you know, if your book is self published, you have to go the extra mile so that, you know, again, it isn't such a big deal anymore. Self publishing. But if it looks self published, then it's a problem. Right. So lots of errors. The typesetting looks really boring. Or it's off. The COVID is sort of slapped together, looks like clip art or something. You know, I don't know. It affects people's buying decisions and I think you'll get much fewer sales. And also if you're trying to make money off the book in terms of leveraging for opportunities, speaking engagements, if you're selling programs, whatever you're doing, you know that all. It affects all of it. If your book doesn't look like legit.

Yeah. You know, it's like packaging for anything else. A product that's well packaged, proven over and over again sells better. Packaging matters. So. Okay, so A.J. i got it. I'm roughly saying $10,000 to get this book done. Right. Plus I gotta do the print. The book itself. There's a cost for that too, Right?

Yeah.

And so what's your experience? If I did print on Demand pod, what's the cost to print in a single book that will go into a softcover book?

So if we're talking again say a book that's around 256 pages, which is about how long our new, the new profit first book will be in its softcover and it's print on demand. I don't know. Four Paper prices fluctuate so you have to keep that in mind. But I would say between four and five dollars if you get that's just for a one off. But keep in mind, if you decide to do print on demand and you hook up with say IngramSpark or Lightning Source, you paying around 150 bucks to load your files and then they just print them as they're ordered, as they're ordered by Barnes and Noble, as they're ordered by Amazon or Libraries. And you don't actually pay that, you just get the net proceeds. So it's actually a pretty good deal. That's the one place where you can sort of economize, you know. And then if you want to get a big order. So for instance you take a lot of, you know, you have people who want books, big orders for speaking engagements, so forth. You know, you can do an offset run. Offset printing is, you know, you only want to start doing that when you need at least 2,000 copies. Then you know you're looking at one third to half of that cost of print on demand.

Right.

So it's a big savings, but only if you think you can move those books.

That's true. That's the big risk. Right. So toilet paper entrepreneur I this is true. I ordered 20,000 copies. We're just now. Yeah, we're just now out of the books because. And the book has sold 100,000 copies. The reason is that it's been translated in 10 different languages. So all these different languages, it's in Kindle and it's an audio. So that's the combined hundred thousand the hardcovers. The rule of thumb is for me, my experience, hardcover represents about 20%, 15 to 20% of overall sales. And actually that's how it's playing out for toilet paper. But that was eight years ago. So I've been sitting on 20,000 books. It's hard to go through inventory. Now Christina, when we were surge, was it 5,000 books we got. Yeah, 5,000. Yeah. And profit first. I think we order in batches of 5,000 now, 5,000 at a time, bulk, bulk and then. But if you order 5,000 books, we use bookmasters.com so if you're looking to do a book, bookmasters.com is a great printing house. I think they charge 270, 280 a book. Does that sound right?

I don't know.

Okay, I think that's about right, Mike, because I've, you know, but what's interesting about them, that when you get to that level of 3,5000, your hardcover isn't going to be that much more, and it might even be almost the same as paperback.

That's the funny thing.

Just do the hardcover.

Yeah, yeah. It's the exact same price, and that's why I always do hardcover. It's the exact same price when you get down to that point. All right, so the last question I have for you before we got wrap up here is now that we know the cost, we're saying if you self publish, 10,000 is a realistic expectation. Plus if you do podcast, $4 a book, maybe you can get that down a little bit. I got to move. So if I sell a book for 20 bucks, that means I net $15 a book. Now, by the way, if you sell on Amazon, they take half of that. So now you're netting $7 a book to cover that thousand dollar, that $10,000 investments. I got to sell 1500 bucks as the break even point. That doesn't sound that hard. How hard is that?

It's really hard. It's so hard. The average book sells, and I'm really sorry for anybody who gets depressed, but the average book sells 300 copies over its lifetime. You're a freaking rock star. And so are a lot of people that we know. But I mean, that's, you know, that's pretty pitiful. The difference is the people who do the book right care about the reader and market the hell out of it. The marketing is never done. It's twice as much work as actually writing the book. But you can sell it. You can do it. You're my example. One of my examples is people who actually can do it. But people just have to manage their expectations and really understand what they're getting into to make something like that happen. That you sold that over the course of eight years, but that's not all you did. You have other books. There's four now. You know, that's the other thing I think this is really key for people to understand, Mike, is that it's not about the first book. It's you write the second book, the third book, the fourth book, that helps sell all previous books in your. What's called your backlist, and you just have to keep producing content, and then that helps sell all the other content. It's never ever about the first book.

This podcast is promoting the books, too. It's a perpetual thing, aj. You have a course you're doing or class you're doing around this that you revealed. Actually, you, myself, Michael Port, got together to do a little retreat with authors. Some of our listeners may be interested. Could you just give us some details on what that's all about?

Yeah, well, first of all, we're. We're doing the retreat again in January, right?

Yeah, we are. Michael. Michael's boat burned. I don't know if you heard about that one.

No, I didn't hear, but I mean.

Go on the news. It burned to. I want to say to the floor, but when you're in the water, you burn not to the floor. But this thing was a yacht, aj. You saw it.

Oh, my God.

Brand. Oh, my God. So we. I had a call schedule with him, and I just get a text saying, can't talk. And then check the news. I'm like, what? And on Facebook, he put it up there. It was on the news report. They had helicopters flying and circling as his boat was burning to the ground. He was not there, thank God. So I threw things off.

Oh, my gosh. That was his pride and joy.

Pride and joy. And by the way, he bought that from. Yeah, he bought.

It was his baby.

Listen, when you can buy a book, a boat, A boat from an advance on a book, you know, you're kicking some ass. That's what Michael.

He is kicking ass. He is amazing. That's terrible. That's terrible news.

But we're not off course. So we are gonna have our retreat again in January. And by the way, right, it will not be on the boat. It'll be in little floaties. We're getting those little, like turtle looking floaties.

Pontoon with like a couple coolers of beer.

Right? Right.

Tire tubes.

If you're listening in. If you're listening in and you want to go to the Michael Port, Mike Michalowitz, AJ kind of combo retreat. We call it the perennial bestseller because it's the concept of always selling. Well, email me. It's mikemicalitz.com so mikemicalitz.com just email me and say, mike, I want to learn more and I'll turn you on to it. But, aj, you're also doing something on your own. What's that?

Yeah, I'm doing the game changing book workshop. It's eight weeks of my whole process that I use with you and on all the other books that I've written as a ghost. Because we didn't say that I'm not a ghost anymore. You have to congratulate me. It's one year anniversary of retiring from ghost writing. So that's my whole process broken down. And for over eight weeks. It's a workshop so that people can really get their game changing book together so that they really have the best advantage to go do say what you did. And it's. It starts in November and AJ is done.

This not just with me. I was with a lot of folks. And one thing that turned me so on to you, aj, was when I asked you, who else do you write for? You say that's the golden rule. I can't tell you. And that's. Yeah. Which is pretty impressive. And subsequently, some people have allowed their names to be revealed. One or two people. And wow. I am tier 17 and they're tier one. Just to give you a sense. So she knows the formula. I encourage everyone to check it out again. Aj, one more time. Where's the site they can go or where can they go get more information?

They can email me. My site is ajharper.com super easy. Or they can email me at aj.harper.book lab. But ajharper.com works.

Okay, so we go to ajharper.com and if you're really crazy, do both. Go to our perennial bestseller event and AJ's workshop and you're in for a dizzy.

Oh my gosh. If you did the workshop and then you went to the bestseller retreat, you would be moving so fast. You'd really be really be ahead.

You might get your book done in 20 minutes. Actually.

You might. You might.

Exactly. AJ, thanks for joining us and I'll talk to you in the next couple days.

Thanks, aj.

Talk about that.

Okay. You're welcome.

All right, we'll see you.

Bye, everyone.

Bye.

Bye. All right, I want to discuss what we learned, but first, I was looking for a sting and a cough there.

I'll give you a hunt.

Oh, first, I want to thank our corporate partners who make the show a reality. So ProfitCon just wrapped up this past weekend. It was October until October 1st. Right. So we're recording this on October 5th.

Yes.

And Xero was amazing. Xero is cloud software. Receipt bank is software for scanning in your receipts and managing receipts. That happens to tie into Xero. So now you have cloud accounting with zero. You got your scanners going in Fundbox. I mean, you got receipts going into it with the receipt bank scanner. Fundbox allows, they call themselves a cash flow accelerator. They allow you to get your invoices paid immediately. Even if your client's not paying them, they actually release the funds to you on those invoices. So that's Fundbox and Fundera. These were all there? They were all there, by the way, at the event. Fundera is one stop shopping for loans. And so if your business needs a loan for anything, I mean, you want to buy capital equipment, you need a short term bridge loan. Fundera shops it for you. Go to fundera.com and then my favorite was the Love Connection. That happened at the nextiva booth. Chris. It could have been like. It could have been like one of those cheesy shows like paradise island or something. Like, everyone's making out at our conference.

It wasn't making out. It was tasteful. They were clearly together.

Really?

It wasn't like a distortion display?

No, I guess that's true. But we have at least two couples we've identified.

Yes, yes. Profitcon brings romance.

Yeah. Yeah, we're gonna change it from the only conference dedicated to profit to the only conference where you can F your neighbor. I mean, what'd you put in my brother in a positive way. Who else was making out at our event? All right, Christine's giving me the cut signal. Okay. She's right. She's smart. She's smart. All right, so let's discuss our takeaway. Chris, you're up first. Yeah.

By the way, I just want to say all the corporate partners are. You actually use most of them yourself, Mike. With Profit First Professionals, we use all of them, actually. And, you know, everybody. These aren't just, you know, random people who paid money and. Yeah, and I'll give you my takeaway. I just want to give a quick shout out to the organization that I'm working on building right now. It's called Pause youe Life. And, you know, think about this. The pauses between the words give meaning to the sentence. See, working hard to be profitable in your business is awesome, but you can't do it 24 7, 365. You have to take a break. So pause your life. We're offering retreats and meetups. It's awesome. Pause your life.org. that's the website. I loved AJ's appearance. I love what she does. Really. I mean, I. Like I've mentioned before, I was in the doo doo pile.

Yeah.

Of. You know, I wrote a book in 2010. It's called Leap beyond you'd Limits. And. And, you know, it's good. A lot of good self help stuff in it, but I missed on a lot of the things that she said, like to Have a story to write a second and third book. Like so many things I didn't do. And that's clearly why it was never successful. One of the things she was talking about, the book giving relief and giving an answer to get the reader where you want them to go. And that just struck me, like, giving relief. I mean, people need help, right? People are struggling with these questions, like, how do I do this? Or how do I become profitable? And if your book can give that, that's huge. And same thing with an answer or a strategy or tactics. It's like, helpful stuff. And if you do everything else, AJ Said, it's awesome. So that was awesome.

Christine, what was your takeaway?

Authors that publish too fast without taking advantage of launching opportunities. Don't rush into it. And also do your research. You. I'm a firm believer that you get what you pay for, and you want to pay for quality and not convenience.

I like it. Mine was market while you're writing. And she said at least six months in advance. Also, my own thought was, you got. I got to. We all got to be. If we want to be an author, be a ravenous reader. Because she said, all the concepts have been discussed already. Like, profit first, admittedly, is nothing new. It's the envelope system. I just repackaged it for business and tied in business concepts with the envelope system and the pay yourself first method, tied all in together, and it became fresh again, a new perspective. But the concepts aren't new. So the reason that all came to me was because I'm a ravenous reader. I read constantly.

Well, and you found your audience because you put your personality into it, and that gives you a special connection with several thousands or millions of people in the world. And I think that's important when writing a book too.

Yeah, personality is big. Like, I was on stage, unbeknownst to me, because I was blindfolded, I was twerking. I mean, I knew I was twerking, but I didn't realize I was the only guy on stage that they played a trick on me. But what was interesting, or I thought, was the audience. People are laughing and having fun. But could you imagine an accounting conference, a traditional one. I start doing that, people like, what the hell's going on? I think we have to express our true personality in all formats, on the web and so forth, and will attract the audience. That resonates with and probably turn away, repel people who are not turned away.

So Mike's true personality is a twerker.

Yeah, I'm a twerker. I'm a twerk.

Ow, Ow.

Okay, there you go.

This is relevant to profit because obviously when you be yourself and do quality work and follow the guidance of experts like A.J. i mean, things work, right?

That's right, bro.

There you go. Hey, by the way, you can rate and review our show. Did you ever think about doing that? Go to itunes or Stitcher. Profit first podcast. Give us a little rating. You know, five stars is always welcome. We love that.

Six stars is appreciated too, if you can figure that one out.

There you go. And of course the website profitfirstpodcast.com all our previous episodes. And here's the thing, you heard us give our feedback. You have feedback. We want your feedback. Go to the post, go to profit first podcast dot com. Find episode 122 I think it is, right? And AJ Harper and comment or ask a question to Mike. So this has been awesome. And I want to end with. Or I want to suggest we end by Mike. You talking about Profit first professionals because you are eradicating entrepreneurial poverty. Amen. Thank you.

If you weren't at profitcon this year, oh my God, did you missed the event of the century? People walking out with the newest, the latest, the greatest, everything to increase profitability in their businesses. And they were pumped and energized.

Oh, yeah.

Now you can still catch the momentum. It's easy. Hire or work with a Profit first professional. These are accountants, bookkeepers and business coaches who have specialized in the profit first method. They've been trained by our SWAT team, team of profit specialists. And there's eight of. There's seven of us. Seven of us. And we strong. The voice is strong in them. And they coach these accounts, bookkeepers and coaches on the profit first methodologies. They become certified and now they deliver this to you. So go to profitfirstprofessionals.com Click on the find button. We will hook you up with a prop first professional who specializes in your exact needs, your niche or the challenges you're facing. And they will drive profitably in your business. And by the way, they're also, they will also do the accounting, bookkeeping or coaching for you. But anyone can do that stuff. I mean, they're great at it. And anyone you hire should be great at it. The big bonus is they will drive profit in your business first and foremost. Go there now.

That's why these Profit first professionals and exist to drive that profit. I mean, jeez, you need them anyway. I love it. All right. Profit first professionals dot com. Thanks to AJ. Thank you, Mike. Thank you, Christina. Thanks to Obi Ron and the Hawaiian lumberjack in the background. Thanks for listening. We really appreciate it. We, we hope we're part of your profit journey. And we'll see you next week.

See you Sa.