Episode 136: Exploring the Work to Hustle Ratio with Ariane Trelaun

Her name is Dr. Sabrina Starling. She's the business psychologist and the author of how to Hire the Best. Now you have the opportunity to meet with her in person. Well, first over the web and then perhaps in person. She's doing a masterclass live on how to quickly double your profit with top performing employees. You can join the class. She is my personal business psychologist and she's gonna be working with you live over the web. Text employees. That's E M, P L, O Y, E, E S to 4, 4 3, 222 again, employees to 4, 4, 2, 2 2. And you'll be in Dr. Sabrina's next master class.

Oh.

Ow. Ow.

And if you. If you're really interested in the. The ratio, it's Mike Michalowicz's ratio of how much he tucks in his shirt to how much he has. Plumber's ass. You came to the right episode of the Profit first podcast.

Episode 136.

Sorry, hold on.

Christopher.

Come on, Ariana.

Come on, Jane.

Say something.

Come on.

Say how. All right, Jade. I know. I'll make Jane laugh a little bit.

Welcome, everyone, to the show. We're so happy to have you. Welcome to the madness. My name is Chris Curran. I'm the founder of Fractal Recording and Pause youe Life.

That's right, brother. And I'm Mike Michalowicz, the author of Profit First. And First. And Search. Yeah, I wanted to do a pause your life joke. Just didn't work. And search. But Profit first is released now, I think. Or now. Ish. February 21. Depends on the Squiz Live. Oh. Air dates.

It's.

It's going tomorrow.

Tomorrow?

Tomorrow.

Get the book. And you, my friend, you are listening to the Profit first podcast, where you are going to learn all of profit, all the angles of profitability. Today, actually, we're talking about a ratio you should be aware of that's critical to profitability.

Ow.

Serious. And so is this show. This show is not about revenue. Well, it kind of is about revenue, but it's not all about revenue, because revenue is. Revenue might be a shag carpet, but.

Profit is a party with a market. I think I nailed it, right? I did a reverse time. Perfect. That's perfect. That's pretty good, right, Jay?

Anyway, our show, we put out a show every single week. You can go to profit first podcast.com, check out all our previous episodes. You can binge listen if you want. If you're like one of those crazy people who works out all the time.

That would catch me every Shot.

And of course, we're in itunes and stitcher and tunein Radio. Anywhere you hear podcasts, you can get us any app you have. And we're psyched. We're psyched for this show. Because you know why? The more you think about profit and talk about profit, guess what happens? More profit.

What?

It's amazing. Hey, brother. What have you been up to?

Man, oh, man. I'm fading the music. I am the king of all fades. I'm not sure if anyone knew this about me.

It's like. It's like playing an instrument and singing at the same time. It's another level of performance.

It is.

And Chris can talk and fade all at once.

And when you listen to music, like when you're. Let's say you're listening to music at home and you're about to leave, do you just hit the stop button or do you, like, fade it down a little and then hit stop?

Yeah, you crank it down.

It's the artistry of it.

Yeah, I just turn it off. I just turn it off.

Yeah.

But here's one thing I found is if you are playing your music on your iPhone, like you're listening to Amazon prime or something, and I want to cut it out, I slide, you know, close the app, and then it fades down for you.

It does automatic.

Yeah, you're right.

But that's not a real fade.

You're right. That is the classy way. It hurts me when someone just hits stop.

It's like.

It was classy.

Yeah. You hear like this. Wham.

Solo.

Yeah.

So what have you guys been up to?

Go, dude. So this morning, I saw Christina. Ron. Jane heard it even. She was at her huddle this morning. Right, Jane? Yeah. See, I say yes.

Yes.

There you go. And we got. We got to tell you about the tickle we did to Jane.

Oh, yeah.

So we all. At the very end, we all put our fists in. Jane comes in under the pile and puts her fist up like a rock star. And normally we all throw our hands up. We go prophet. We throw our hands up in the air. But we went prophet. And we all came down. We started tickling Jane. And here's what. Jane giggled. Go like that.

And who is Jane, Mike?

Jane is Ron Saharian's daughter. It's Jane Saharian. She's a first grader.

Does she also have a lightsaber like Obi Wan?

Yeah, she has even tougher, like a little Yoda lightsaber.

Green one.

James, what color is your lightsaber? What's your favorite Color, do you? Pink. Love it. Mine's purple.

Favorite color is pink. Shut up. Okay, well, that's inappropriate, Jane. That's inappropriate. That's inappropriate. All right, let's get back to business here. So I know the word language used on this show is so inappropriate. Jane, before we kick into our guest today, who is Ariane and she's a pfp.

She is.

She goes by a single name. Kind of like Madonna.

No, I don't go by a single name.

She's that good.

I don't. I actually do use my last name.

Okay.

And it's Trelum.

Trellon.

Trellon.

Yeah. I mean, but actually my first name is enough. Generally. It's hard enough.

Well, your name's not so common. I don't know. I don't think I've actually met an Ariane before. Is it? Do you? Have you ever met another Ariane?

Me? Yes. I've actually increasingly been meeting them. Mostly Ariana.

Yeah.

Yeah, right.

That doesn't count, though.

Yeah, that doesn't count.

Not really. It's not exactly the same. No.

Yeah. That's like Christina meeting a Christine. That's totally different.

Or Kristen Mike.

Or me meeting a Michael Mike.

Remember the time you told me that if you were going to be a girl, your name would be Ariana? Roll.

Oh, shut. Dude, you're on fire. I love when we do an early recording.

A little early for you, isn't it?

Yeah. The fog coming over the Colorado mountain ain't fog. Pow.

We're the highest state in the union.

Oh, that's a good one. That's a good one. You know who also is high are our sponsors for sponsoring this show. So I want to thank. I want to thank nextiva Receipt, Bank Zero, Pause youe Life, Fundera and Fundbox. I think I got everybody.

They are all Shagadelic.

Yeah. And Dr. Sabrina Starling even just popped in there for this episode.

She did.

So we'll tell you more about those folks and share at the end of the show because at the end of the show we like to share our insights, what we learned from Ariane and. And I always like to banter a little bit and then we'll tell you about the sponsors too.

Yeah.

All right, so before we kick into the show because we got to really get rolling here, do you have any shout outs for us, Christine?

I do have a shout out. This is from Sarah Baldwin. She is a studio photographer, owner for the past 14 years and she has struggled with her finances each and every year mainly because she won't face them and use the fact or accept the fact that she's too busy raising six boys, trying to run a studio business full time. She's got a very busy life. But she says that's not an acceptable reason anymore. It's just an excuse she's giving herself. She heard our podcast and purchased the Audible Profit First Books about two months ago, and she's listened to it over and over, and she says she hasn't implemented it yet. So she's writing this email directly to us in chapter one in hope that we might be able to help her or nudge her into starting the process. So, Sarah, that took guts to email us in and do it.

Do it now. We're rubbing in your face right now. You're on the pod permanently. And if you don't do it. For God's sake, Sarah. Now this is wonderful. We get. I think it's somewhere between three to five emails a day. If someone's read chapter one and said, I'm making the commitment with the new release of the book that's coming out tomorrow, it's even easier to make that commitment. So do it.

That's right. And Barry's here with me. And Barry, what do you think about what Sarah's up to right now at this moment, before starting?

There's no activity, no giggle, no nothing.

What. What do you suggest she does, Barry, to really ramp up her profitability?

You're gonna need a couple of horses, a couple of mules.

Yeah, okay.

Oh, that's it.

Okay.

Nails, monkeys, Pumas. Yeah. Beans, coffee, and biscuit and a little piece of fat.

Yeah, that's awesome. Barry's a little slow because he's. He's all. Yeah, I think he's visiting. Touring through. Not heap. Oh, my God. Michalowitz.

Shut.

No, I meant he's a little slowish this morning because he's out. I think he's visiting or traveling in Hawaii or something. Okay. Her name is Ariana Trelan. And I pronounced it wrong. Did I say Traylon?

Right.

Let me just.

I'll do it for you, Treylon.

It's Ariane Trelawn.

Did I do rice? Treylon? Ariane Trelawn and I. And I threw an Ariana. I am just not on my game. Ariana.

Get it together, man.

So she's the founder and CEO of Do your Thing, which provides bookkeeping, pricing, and profit coaching to women entrepreneurs. And she's a hardcore runner. She doesn't realize that yet, but according to her Facebook page, every time I go on there, you see her showing off her tats and then running, like a thousand miles. Yeah, she likes her tat collections in her bio says, did you see her ink? And she's a profit first professional. But I think what's most fascinating is there is a ratio. You know, all those ratios out there, the inventory turn, the operating cash ratio, all these different metrics you need to measure. And Ariane said there's one that no one measures. It's the most important toward profitability, and it's your hustle to chill ratio.

Nice.

Ariane, you got to tell us about this. Welcome to the show.

Welcome.

Thank you. Very nice to be here. Thanks for that lovely intro.

Yeah.

If I. And just to say, the only reason I mentioned the ink in my bio is because I think it's important to point out that I'm not the usual accountant.

No, you definitely are not, because that's actually.

Go ahead.

Is there a biased. Because you. You have. I think both your arms are fully inked. Right?

Yeah. I'm full. I'm sleep.

Really? You do not sound like a person with tats.

Wow.

I don't know. Is that rude to say that?

No, but people say that to me all the time. If they see me with sleeves, like a shirt on sleeves, and then they see the tattoos, they say, I never thought you were that kind of person. Which is very funny.

Right. Yeah.

I was gonna ask you. There must be some kind of, I presume, this prejudice or bias toward people with tats. I really think that.

Oh, yeah. I go with the same thing.

I live in a bubble, you know, I live in San Francisco. So here there's probably a bias against people who don't have tattoos. I don't know. But really, my clientele is very creative, so it helps that I look like my clients.

Right.

So that's the only reason I bring it up in any of my marketing, because I used to kind of try and keep it under wraps, and then I realized, wait, I actually want to work with people who are like me.

Yes.

Almost like a niche I want to be. Yeah, it actually is a niche. So. Yeah. So that's the only reason it's in my bio, because it's part of who I am and it's part of what makes me me. And I find that it actually makes me relatable to the people I want to work with. So it's all good.

Yeah. No, that's wonderful that you can use it as a filter. But now you're talking about this ratio, this hustle to chill ratio. What exactly does that mean?

So the Hustle to chill ratio came up because I feel like we live in this kind of hustle mad culture, especially for entrepreneurs, where we really get this message that what's important is to hustle and to hustle hard and to hustle constantly. But for me, hustling only matters if you get some chill. So what I found for myself, even in the first year of running my own business, because I've only had my own business for three years, I worked inside of organizations and companies for 20, and then I decided I was done and started my own business. I realized that first year I just ran like mad. I just hustled like crazy. And at the end of it, I thought, wait a second, what just happened? I think I just got hustled in this whole deal. So I really started to think about what mattered was hustling for some purpose and hustling in a way that you were actually enjoying the fruits of all that hustle, AKA you got to chill. Right. So there had to be some chill in the equation. So when I work with my clients, we talk about that a lot, because what it really has to do with is whether you're pricing correctly. A lot of people hustle hard in their first couple of years or even beyond that in business because they're not pricing right. So you got to work even harder to actually make enough money to, a, pay yourself, b, leave some profit in your business. So that's really where hustle to chill came from. So that's. It's something that I use when I work with my clients, and it consists of five elements. Actually, there's five things in the hustle to chill ratio that you look at. Pricing is a huge part of that, but your schedule is a huge tell of whether your hustle is out of control. So I work with people on that, too.

All right, so I want to know those five elements, but I want to go back to pricing. I mean, is that the big leverage that if you're. If you have to hustle. What I'm hearing is if you have to hustle too much, your pricing is too low.

Yeah.

If you're on constant chill, though, would that mean your pricing is way, way too high?

It could mean that or could mean you just don't want to work. But I don't know many people who have too much chill, do you?

No. No, I actually don't.

I mean, it's funny because. Go ahead. Sorry.

Well, I was thinking some extremely wealthy people, and this is a true challenge. I know a few friends, actually, who have hit the Quote, unquote, jack pocket, jack pot. And now their challenge is finding stuff to do. There's actually a whole different challenge. So.

Wow. But you know what? Yeah, that's great. Except that's. I think that's probably the exception. Yeah, I hope so.

Don't some people say that the millennial generation is a little too chill? Or is that different?

What do you think about that, Ariane?

Well, those poor millennials, I think they get painted with a pretty dark brush, but they're actually the things I've been reading about them and actually experiencing because I have a millennial as a son and I just got a new daughter in law who happens to be a millennial. I think their priorities are just really different. Some people think of them as entitled, but what I see is that they're just really clear about wanting to do what they want to do, and they just really kind of stick to their guns on that. And they're very purpose driven. They want to know that what they're doing has a point. Point that it's creating impact. So that's really true. So I think actually millennials might have their hustle to Jill dialed in pretty well, because I think they really understand. I think they learned from their parents and their elders that life is the point of all of this, that we shouldn't defer enjoyment until we're retired. Because does anyone actually really get to retire anymore?

Yeah, I totally agree.

It just keeps going. So, I mean, go ahead.

Sorry, Christina. I was just gonna.

Christina.

You got with Christina first.

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Okay.

No, I was just gonna say, I mean, I'm technically, I'm technically generation Y, but a lot of people kind of group that into millennial. And I think that especially with the economy and everything these days, growing up in the way things are, you had to learn how to hustle versus chill. Like you were kind of flowing, forced into it.

But it's also very, as Ariane was saying, you're very purpose driven. You came into this, and my goal is to be an opera singer. But also, we recently said, you know, things shift too, but you came in with that clarity. So. All right, so, Ariane, let's. Let's go on to the five elements. So pricing is one. If you're out of whack with your Hustle to Chill, what's the other four?

Well, the first. The thing we start with is schedule. So I was saying earlier that if your Hustle to Chill ratio is off balance, that one of the key ways that you know that is from your schedule. So I work with entrepreneurs who feel like they're losing their minds. They're running around all the time, they're switching between tasks, constantly between clients, constantly. They just have too much on their plate. So we look at schedule first. And schedule is an important part of Hustle to Chill. Because I think in the week you should have some balance between when you're serving clients, for example, and when you have downtime, and particularly when you have creative and CEO time. Because the problem when your hustle is out of control is that you typically don't have time to really think about what you're doing and why you're doing it in the particular way that you are. So schedule is a key piece and that's intimately tied, of course, to the second piece, which is really knowing your numbers. And pricing is a big part of that. So one of the key ways that you balance your Hustle to Chill is understanding your numbers really deeply and understanding the impact that pricing has both on your schedule and everything else. So numbers is 2. The third thing is really building your squad and understanding that you can't do it all yourself. It's just not possible.

Do you say building a squad?

Squad, yes.

Not your quad squad, Duh. Like how you threw an A. See, you throw superfluous A's out there. So now I blame you, Ariane.

The chill squad.

Yeah, squad.

Okay, so build your squad.

Yeah, build your squad. So you need people who are supporting you in your work. You need to not try and do everything yourself in most cases. The entrepreneurs I work with, they grow their squad by hiring me to help them with their books and their pricing and their strategies. So really bringing on other people who augment what you're capable of with their skills. You need to have a plan and live your plan. So really be very clear about where you're going and why you're doing what you're doing and kind of spend, stick to plan and the last thing is to do for you. So working in self care and really thinking about your quality of life. Because the whole point for me anyway of having a business is that it's a vehicle to express yourself and to create the life that you really want. So to just be conscious of that as you're actually going through it and not deferring fun and happiness and fulfillment until some future date when all these other factors kind of magically fall into place, which. Does that ever really happen? I'm not sure. So make sure that you're enjoying it right now.

Yeah, it's very much a life by design. As opposed to life by happens.

Yeah, totally.

Okay, so let's continue on with know your numbers. What did you mean by know your numbers?

Really understanding the numbers in your business. So a lot of people, for example, they don't start a business because they want to read the P and L every month. Right? I mean, let's say you are interested in photography and you want to be a professional photographer. Your balance sheet doesn't enter into that. Right. So a lot of people start out because they have a passion that they want to pursue. And the business side of things, particularly their financials, are something that they aren't really familiar with that makes them uncomfortable. So they avoid them at their peril. Right. To their detriment. So part of balancing your hustle to chill is kind of really confronting that fear not avoiding the stuff that puts you off and learning how to use it to actually drive your business where you want it to go. So that's what I mean. So that's, you know, kind of an every month practice of really looking at your numbers and actually being able to see the patterns and discern what really matters in the numbers. And that's, I think profit first makes that so much easier for people.

Thank you for the plug.

Well, yeah, because it's true. Because honestly, if you're just looking at pure financials, you're looking at your P and L and your balance sheet, you got to toggle back and forth to figure out, wait, how come that net income number that's not in the bank? You know, there's all those questions that always come up where when you apply the profit first lens, you see it all in this integrated picture. So you understand, oh, this is what I actually got paid or didn't. You know, this is where my money actually went. So that makes it. That's actually a whole part of it now for me, the profit first element.

Hey, awesome. We actually have audio of because Barry was actually witness to a company who. They weren't watching their numbers. They were hustling too much. And Barry got to sit in on a meeting, actually.

Wow.

Yeah. So, Barry, what did you hear when you were in that meeting and they.

Were cussing up a storm? Profanity is left. Profanity is right.

Okay.

See, it happens. You can really.

Yeah, yeah, it does.

You're right. Barry's right. Always.

Yeah.

He is always right.

Well, when you have that. When you have that voice of gold.

Yes.

You can say those insane things and.

It sounds amazing and sometimes he wants to talk history.

All right, first the inkers.

Okay. The anchors. The anchors. So let's talk about the squad. Now you said you have to build a squad, you know, so funny. Why do you even use that term? Everyone's like, build a team. A team. You're using a different term. I kind of like it. Is that just for fun or is there a meaning behind that?

Well, yeah, it started out for fun just because, I don't know, I think that's something that I think in terms of squad because I work primarily with myself and I've got contractors who work for me. I don't have employees. It really does feel like a squad. Squad also has that kind of element of, I don't know, it has a team meaning, but not in a typical corporate team sense. So it just makes it seem a little bit lighter, a little bit more fun, a little bit less off putting. So that's why I chose that word. Yeah. And I mean, it really is just kind of building out your capacity by bringing on skill sets that you don't necessarily either possess or you're prioritizing those down on your personal to do list because your focus needs to be elsewhere. And I think that's a huge challenge for entrepreneurs is to understand that. Yeah. Just because they can do all of their social media posts, of course. Should they? Right. So I mean, part of Hustle to Chill is also really looking at, well, things that you really should be doing as the CEO of your business versus things that other people can help you with. That's where the squad comes in.

And Ariane, doesn't it tie back to your numbers meaning? Yeah, I can do all my social media posts, but if, if I look at my numbers, I'm doing work that maybe someone else can come in at absolutely a salary where I can elevate myself to things that actually generate more money.

Yes, totally. Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Thank you. That is totally what I meant. Because really, as a CEO of your business, that your focus should be elsewhere. I mean, don't get me wrong, the social media posting, you know, I'm all over that. Like, I love social media. At the same time, it's a total distraction. Right. The other thing too with the social media is really getting to a place where if you're not doing it, I think it's a little bit easier to be analytical about it and to ask the question of, well, to what end? So I have all these likes. So what?

Oh my gosh. I know.

Can't pay your mortgage with likes.

I once. This is, this is years and years ago. Someone Got into a disagreement with me and literally ended the disagreement, saying, I have 30,000 likes. And I'm like, okay, I haven't even know. I didn't even know what that meant. But I don't know. It was just funny that there was so much significance put into that.

Right.

Kind of vapor society. Here's why I like the word squad. Team is. Team means conflict. Right. If you're on a football team or soccer team, conflict. But squad is someone that serves like a police squad, an ambulance squad.

Honorable.

Honorable, yeah. It's an honorable serving group.

Yeah, I think you all use that. That's really great.

Yeah, but don't call it squada anymore because no one knows the hell you're talking about.

Unless it's Italian, maybe.

That's right. That's true. I'll have the meatball and the squad. All right. Have a plan and live it. What does that mean.

Again? Going back to something you said earlier, it's just about being super purposeful. So I tend to be a really planny person. Like, if you could see my office, like, I'm pretty much inside my plan. I have used huge calendar sheets on the wall. I map everything out. I just think it's really important to have a plan to go into your business really consciously and deliberately and make sure that your actions tie back to some end goal. So plan is really important in terms of understanding that hustle to chill, because it gives you a lens through which you can decide, well, wait, I'm hustling on all this stuff, but how is it getting me to what I really want? Is it tied to any of my goals? So that's what I mean about plan. Just getting really clear about what you want. What are the steps to get there, and then using that to discern whether an activity is worth your time or attention.

You know, I hear people talk about bhags, the big car, audacious goal. Is that kind of what you're talking about or is that different?

Well, that can be part of your plan. You can have big goals that you're marching towards. I've never really liked that big, hairy, audacious goal. I don't know, it's just that whole expression.

Yeah, why.

Why does it have to be hairy?

You know exactly why. I don't. I don't know who came up with that, but, yeah, I could leave the hairy part out and be happier. Having big goals is great, you know, and a plan is a way of actually making the map so that you can drive there clearly.

So I think I found My sister from another Mr. Because I don't like bhags either. But I heard this one term, and now I'm starting to use it called Big Bang, which is the big, bold, audacious. And this is the big, key, noble goal. So the big, audacious, noble goal. And the big bang now connects with me, so I'm trying to propagate that. So next time you're out there, just big bang people. Okay.

No, yeah.

Okay. Terrific.

Why do you laugh at that?

Because you're funny.

Well, no, I miss the inkers.

Exactly. Thank you, Barry.

You guys are just.

So. We're talking big, audacious, noble goals now with the bang.

Yeah, the big bang is big, bold, audacious, noble goals.

Bold, audacious.

It's the B bang.

So, you know what's great about that is that element of noble. Because we were talking about millennials earlier and this wanting to serve a purpose, wanting to have an impact. I just think that interjecting that idea of nobility, that's really great, you know? So how is what you're doing for the greater good? You know, what are you making like? What are you creating in the world rather than just hustling all the time? What are you making like? How are you contributing to other people's lives or to creating more beauty in the world? I mean, I think that's something that I really love about a lot of my client base. I've got a lot of designers and photographers and floral designers and people who are making things with their hands that are gorgeous. You know, that really. That really inspires me. So I love this Big Bang idea. I am going to use that.

Good. But now I'm a little unclear how it works with your ratio, because I believe maybe I'm wrong here. Is that to serve your purpose, you gotta hustle, hustle, hustle. There's guys like Gary Vaynerchuk out there. Hustle, hustle, 24 hour hustle. It sounds like you're at odds with that.

Yeah, I am a little bit at odds with that. I just don't. I don't really buy this idea that you have to hustle all the time. I think that there's a certain headiness to that. There's a certain kind of, I don't know, bragadocho, just to use a crazy word. That's just the one that popped into my head. Like, there's this kind of, like, look at me, I'm so hustley. There's. There's a. That's out there a lot, especially in people's social media feeds, there's a lot of romance of hustle. And I just. I kind of think the hustle is a bit of a con sometimes and that it's not really enough to hustle for hustle's sake. I mean, if you're hustling and you're doing good and you're making a living and you're helping others and, you know, you kind of, if that's your deal, but that's not my deal. And I think for a lot of the people I work with, they're suspicious of the hustle a little bit, and they want to work hard to make a life that they enjoy. Hustling is not the point. For them, hustle is a means to an end. It's not the end itself. And so I think that's part of what the hustle to chill ratio is about, is really discerning. Why are you hustling? To what end? I mean, if you just want to hustle, hey, I don't have a problem with that. You know, I've definitely got hustler phases than other phases, you know, but for me, really, the emphasis is on hustling to the extent that it serves you, that it serves what you're trying to accomplish, but not just hustling to hustle, because that's what everybody says you should do, and just kind of making your own decision. Like everyone's hustle to chill ratio is different. That's going to look different for me than it is going to look for someone else. So just basically deciding that for yourself and making sure that you're not just hustling because that's the dominant kind of trend in small businesses, you know, and being entrepreneurs that everyone's supposed to hustle, well, maybe you're just going to hustle X much because that's all you really need to in order to have the life that you particularly want to have.

So I think first of all, that word braggadocio is amazing.

I don't even know where that crap out of that.

I almost took down the Internet. So I think the braggadocios out there are saying hustle for chill. Like, work your butt off. And so one day you can chill and you're saying it's hustle to chill. It's a little, little component that shifts, and yours is a balance into perpetuity, and theirs is a means to an end. It sounds.

Well, I don't. I. Yes, possibly. I don't. I can't really speak for them. I just know for me I want to have a beautiful life right now. And don't get me wrong, I love work. I'm a worker. I was raised by workers. I love to work, but I watch it in myself because I also want to be enjoying my life right now. Like, I don't want to wait until this mythical retirement age, which really, I don't feel like I ever want to stop working because I love to work. So I think it's just a different. It's just a different mindset. You know, I want to. I just want it all integrated. I don't want to split them up. I don't want to have all hustle for a year so that I can chill for two weeks. I want to try and weave it together a little bit better and ensure that my life is as beautiful as possible all the time. By which I mean that I've got time to see my friends. I've got time to be outside. I've got time to be in the garden and work and have it all kind of interwoven in this way that serves me.

So how do you scale back the hustle? If I'm a workaholic and I'm hustling all the time and I'm just exhausted from it, but that's all I know, how do I flip that switch to get my ratio back on track?

That's such a good question. Because hustle can just become a really bad habit. You know, we just do stuff and we're just used to it. That's how we operate. Dialing it back, I think that's something that I had to learn to do. It's hard because you're used to hustling and sometimes hustle, you're not even necessarily doing the right work. You're just staying in motion, in constant motion all the time. Some of that is, for me, anyway. A lot of that was anxiety driven, where I was like, oh, my God, I'm not good enough. I'm not fast enough. I'm not making enough. It was this kind of, for me anyway, kind of this compensatory reaction. I just got a hustle to make this better. When in reality, what I needed to do is kind of stop and go, wait a second, why am I doing this? What do I really want? You know? So part of that dialing back the hustle is to kind of get clear about what do you want really, at the end of it, what's your point? And then finding a way to address all those little pieces of the hustle. You know, are you hustling so hard because you're scared to set your prices higher. And so you keep yourself in this trap of having to work really, really hard all the time so you don't have to think about the fact that you hate it, you know, or that. Or that you don't feel like you're serving at your highest level because you're afraid to price your at that highest level. So, I mean, you have to unpack it. And it's highly individual for each person.

So the big question is, how does this tie into profitability? It sounds like if you're not hustling all the time, you're going to start compromising your profit. But off the air earlier, like, no, no, Mike, it's the total opposite.

Well, no, I do think it's the opposite, because I think sometimes all that hustle means you don't have time to be analytical and to think about, wait a second. Am I actually bringing any money home both in terms of paying myself? Because I deal with a lot of people who don't pay themselves through their businesses or pay themselves very little, which is terrible. And so part of examining your hustle is to figure out, well, if this is not actually resulting in me being able to, A, pay myself and B, actually have profit in my business beyond that, and not equate those two things because so many people do, then what is the point? Something's not working, right. If I'm not able to make a profit and pay myself. So it's not actually at odds with profit to dial back your hustle, Because I think actually, when you're hustling, right, there's chill, there's profit. So for me, actually, you could almost equate chill with profit. And in that sense, really thinking about profit in two ways. Yeah. One of it is dollars, and the other of it is enjoyment. And whether you're actually having any fun outside of just hustling. So, I mean, I do see them as really closely tied together.

I got a little new saying for you. Hustle is doing. Yeah, Hustle is doing. Chilling, is reviewing. But it sounds, like, beautiful. It was beautiful. Hey, Barry's wife.

So beautiful.

Oh, hell no.

But. But that's what I'm hearing from you is the hustle is the execution of stuff. But you got to stop and sharpen that ax and you got to recharge batteries.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I think that it's really easy to forget about that. What's all that giggling?

I'm sorry. Laughing because Chris is giggling. Something was.

I thought Mike just said you have to sharpen your batteries and charge your axe.

I'm sorry, that sounds like one of my quotes.

And that actually this is great timing because it brings me to thing five of your hustle to chill ratio.

Yeah. Play it on me do for you.

Which is doing for you. So I mean, I think that that's part of the chill aspect, is making sure that in all of this work that you're doing to build this business to create a life that you don't forget about yourself, that you're taking time out to learn things. I think your business is a vehicle. Again, I think I said this earlier to development of your own self, to self expression and to learning. So doing for you is about does your business allow you to learn the things you want to learn?

Right.

And how do you. How do you budget that in? How do you create that opportunity for yourself to grow intellectually and in terms of your skills in your business or learn things creatively that you've always wanted to learn? So doing for you is about learning. And you were going to say something. Go ahead.

Oh, well, no, I was gonna say thank you. And we gotta wrap up our little.

Oh, really?

Yeah, yeah. Time flies. And I'm actually a little bit intimidated because you threw out compensatory braggadocio. Like, I'm just afraid they're gonna drop another one of these word bombs.

You just gotta wrap it up before I drop another big word.

I know. My word is defenestration, by the way.

Oh, I like. That's a great word.

That's. Do you know that word?

Yeah.

What's it mean? Don't look, don't Google. What does it mean?

I think it has something. Well, I know it has something to do with Windows. I can break it down.

Yes. Oh, my God.

I want to say it's throwing something out the window.

Oh, my God, you nailed it.

Wow.

I mean, defenestration means to throw something or someone out of a window.

Yes.

Unbelievable. I dropped that in. So when I'm in a conversation, I'm like, oh, yeah, I think that's going to result in defenestration. And no one ever wants to say, what the hell? Oh, yeah, I think you might be right. I can't drop that on you. Gosh, you're looking braggadocio right now. I just want you to know.

Well, I know it's hard. It's hard. I try to keep it under wraps.

Ariane. Where can everyone listen to show, learn more about you, hire you for your cool services and all the stuff you do?

They can come to my website, which is Doyourthing Biz B I Z. Or you can always find me on Facebook because as Mike said earlier, I'm always on there talking about my hardcore running. My business page is do your thing biz, I believe.

I think it's a cognitive bias. Like I'll hop on Facebook and say I really should be working out. And then every seems like everyone's working out. So I don't know. That's just my perception of you. I want you to know that.

Well, it is a big deal for me. I do enjoy it very much.

So I like to talk about it and how. Just real quick, what kind of runs do you do? Is it like short stuff? You do like marathons? What do you.

Half marathon is my longest. I'm not interested. Marathon is just too much time for me.

Okay. Next time we're in convers together, I have my running shoes. So if you're ever up for a run.

Yeah, absolutely. Always up for it.

Okay. I bring them with me every time, so we'll do it.

Great.

Ariane, thanks so much for coming on the show.

Thanks so much for having me. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Thanks, Arianna.

Thank you.

Bye.

Bye.

And now, unfortunately, Ariane Trelawn is gone.

You've been saving that.

Well, the other one I thought of, I was gonna say we are on with Ariane Trelawn. That. That's good. Not for long, but she's leaving, so.

Yeah, that's. Oh, my God.

We're upset about that, but we have to move on.

All right, Chris. Well, we. We gotta sharpen our batteries and charge our axes. Charge that axe, that ax. This is a train wreck show and I love it. And I love every second of it. You know, in a second we're gonna recap what we learned here. Mine's just gonna be a battery of words. We're gonna recap what we learned here. But first, I do want to thank our corporate partners. Make the show a reality.

Yeah.

Because we're tight on time. Because we're tight on time. They're gonna be compromised. They are zero cloud accounting software we use in house. Love it. It Pause your life. That's a. You know, that's Chris's organization. If you want to. This Hustle to Chill ratio. Chris delivers the chill, chill, chill. And it's so missed. You've got to make it a deliberate practice. And. But Chris's organization, he does it with his wife. It's powerful. Then there's Fundera. That's one stop shopping for loans and funds. So you need some cash quick.

Yeah.

Call Fundera and they actually educate through the entire process. Corey, our audio engineer, used them and raised, I think, 50,000 or 50 million. What was it, Corey? 50 billion. 50 billion, trillion, trillion. Oh, he's not even listening. He's just looking up words himself. All right, Nextiva VoiceOver IP phone system we use in house now. I think we ordered more. We keep ordering.

We have like 15 phones.

Yeah. So basically, if you want an Xtiva phone system, get it now before we buy out all their phones. And then Fundbox, which is a cash flow accelerator, if you need to get those invoices paid faster, it's called Fundbox. They release the funds to you. And then receipt bank, which is a receipt scanner. And when you go out and spend some money, instead of putting that receipt in a shoebox, now you can scan it and it ties into your accounting system. And then one more shout out, of course, for Dr. Sabrina Starling, you can sign up for her masterclass. So do that if you didn't do it now. Send a text. Pause this text. The word employees to 44222. Employees to 44222. Okay, Chris, what'd you learn today, my brother?

Oh, this was just awesome. I love it. So here's the thing. There's, you know, people. A lot of people are busy, but they're not productive. Right? That's what. That's what Ariane was talking about, is you can be busy doing stuff but not really be productive. And productivity is pretty much the same as profit or is very tied to profit. Right. So here's the thing. Working smarter, not harder. And everyone says that. But here's the thing. The more you can chill and think and not just chill, the more you can come up with creative solutions to business instead of just following what everyone else is doing. Okay. Everyone else is hustling and doing it. A, B, C, D, E, F. There are creative solutions now, and it just comes from your own mind and your heart. You got to think about this. How can I make the same money and work half the time? There are many answers to that question, but if you're just nose to the grindstone, breaking your back every day, you'll never come up with the solution to that question. So that's the. I took that as the whole point. And I love that.

I love that you said that Christine would. I knew Chris would be jacked this episode. What'd you get, Christine?

Oh, well, Chris stole mine, so I do have others.

Why do you steal Things, Chris, you're such a painful.

Shut up.

Shut up.

God, Chris. Shut up. I will build a great, great wall.

Shut up, Donald. No, understand your numbers deeply. And don't be like, you need to. Not just looking at your P and L statements, but actually get in there and get to know your numbers specifically, because you need to start noticing the patterns. And from there you can kind of start to control it better. Address the big fat elephant in the room. I had that problem for years, especially with my student loans. I mean, I know this is a personal level, but, like, if I couldn't make the payment, I would just ignore their calls because I talked to them, you know, And I. It just got worse. The longer you wait, you just. You got to stop. You got to take care of it, make a plan. And it takes a while, but then the relief you get later, you know, of the hustle versus the chill.

Yeah, you gotta monitor it. So it's funny, my son, he. Student loans too. He. When this thing would come, there was always envelopes piled up like, what is that? He's like, I think it's bills. I'm like, well, freaking open it. My God. So he got in the habit of it. And then he just. A couple days ago, he said, I'm 1/5 the way through my student loans. High five to man. But now he's clearly measuring it, which is a big deal. Yeah, for me it was. She said there's three things. There's the client time, there's the chill time, but she also threw in that creative time, which the chill supports. So you got to make your money and you got to serve others. That's in the hustle. Right? The chill then yields the creative space for you to expand, serve others better, but also to experience life to its fullest. Very cool. Very cool episode.

Hey, Mike, how would you rate yourself, your own hustle to chill ratio?

Way better. I would. You know what? Right now, dude, I would give myself an A plus. A plus. I'll give myself an A. Yeah.

Wow.

I used to work, dude, I used to work till like 10 o' clock every night just because I had to work. Now I work until the job's done. And the moment I feel, okay, I'm done for the day. Done. And sometimes I'm leaving at 5 o' clock and other times and my wife just text me while we're doing this, and she said, hey, why don't we grab lunch today with the kids? And so I just canceled the meeting and said, yeah, we're doing lunch. So I think I'm getting finally connected with reality.

Nice.

Yeah.

Good for you, brother. Well, listen, if you're listening to this, we want to know what you learned. You. That's right, you. We're talking to you. You're listening. You're hearing my voice. You just listen to this great interview with all these interesting points. Whatever you learn, we want to know. So go to the website profitfirstpodcast.com, find this episode, I think it's 1:36, Ariane Trelawn, and go into the comments and call Mike Michalowicz some funny names you can even. We should have a contest who can butcher your last name. The worst. Do that. But also tell us what you learned from this episode because it's important. And also you can binge listen to us. All our episodes are there. You can hear us wherever you hear podcasts. And of course, we love all our corporate partners because they really are important. And Mike has worked. Mike has personal relationships with all them, and he's worked with most of them all, pretty much all of them. And. But the. The. The giant towering figure in the background that is here to support all of us is Profit First Professionals.

That's right. And I listen you. You. Thank you. Thank you, everyone, please. Right there, buddy.

Profit First Professionals.

Yes, everyone, I want to tell you about Profit First Professionals, and I'm talking right to you. You going commando? Yeah. How did you do? Because you notice someone right now listening to show going, oh, my God. How do you know? How do you know I go commando? Yeah, you the commando. Profit First Professionals will give you enough money so you can finally wear your undergarments. Profit First Professionals, that's our organization of PFPs. Who are they? They are accountants, bookkeepers, and coaches who studied the Profit first methodology, now are delivering to clients. Ariane Trellon is one of them, and she's extraordinary. And you can see they all have, as Ariane was saying, a specialty, a category, a community that they serve so well. If you're a creative type, holy cow, let's hook you up with Ariane. If. If you're in the manufacturing business, we got a perfect thing first. And for you, if you're a manufacturer, we got somebody right now, here's what I want you to do. Go to profitfirstprofessionals.com then click on the find button. We will find you the perfect person to bring your business to the highest level of profitability. And finally, finally, once and for all, get you some hundred buckets.

That's right. Let's make it. Let's make 2017 the year of profitability.

There we go.

Well, thanks for listening, everyone. Thanks again to our guest, Ariane Trellon. Thanks again to Mike and Christina and Oberon, everyone in the background over there, including Jane. Thanks, Jane. We'll see you all next week. Until then, as Oberon says, may the prophet be with you.

Also with you.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

No way. Crazy. No way. You crazy.