Episode 163: Embracing the Spectrum with Kyle Graden

First, I am over the doctor. Guys. Like, it took me this long.

It took you a while.

I know.

Proud of you.

I know. I know. I want to reconcile with the doctor. I almost want to send him like a gift.

I don't think you need to. I mean, I still think he needs a Justice systems. There's a better way.

Yeah, I guess I shouldn't be so wishy washy. Did you see some of the gifts I requested? Never. Yes, but I suggested. Did you like that one for the guy? Marcus, The West Virginia.

West Virginia. Yeah.

Yeah, I want to. So this guy I met through Michael Port. You know, I gotta be real careful about this prejudgment thing. This guy comes in and he's with his wife and he starts talking. I'm like, oh, here goes this guy. He's just gonna be full of himself. I just had that vibe. Then ended up just by confluence events. We're sitting next to each other on the boat, we start talking. I'm like, this is the nicest human being I've ever met. He's so cool and ends up going to the rival university. Our schools played each other. He's really into football. So we started talking about that and how his school's horrible. And he said how my school's horrible. It was. It was great. The insults flew. And ends up being the most genuine, nice guy. He ends the thing. He's a professional speaker and so forth. He goes, you know, I've never sold from the stage. And I said, why not? I haven't either. Really. And he goes, because I don't want to manipulate anyone. He's like, I only. I am hired to perform and I don't want to ever make people feel obligated to buy from me. And that's why I don't do it. Because I know. Because I know I'm losing on a lot of financial opportunity, but I have to do that. And that's when I fell in love with him.

Yeah.

I was like, this guy's awesome. Yeah.

And that's when I fell in love with the Profit first podcast.

Oh, the big one. Episode 163. Yes. Solo grunter.

There we go. Welcome everyone to the Profit first podcast. I am your co host, Christina Bolduck.

And I am the host, host Mike Michalowicz, the author of Profit First. Also Serge. New book coming out. Got other ones in the queue. Oh, yeah, just tons of stuff coming. And I'm joined in the studio by the co host to the co host to the host host Kelsey Ayers.

Hey, everybody.

That's right. You can find us on itunes, Stitcher, Tunein Radio, Google Play, and, of course, profitfirstpodcast.com and any other podcaster that you use. Really?

And you're saying I can listen to what. Where. You know, what you can listen to on those channels? The Private first podcast. This is a show that we dedicate to profitability. Yeah. I dare, you know, I say we talk about every angle of profitability. I think we talk about every angle of profitability. I mean, I think we touch on everything.

Yeah.

Today we're going to talk about something you've probably never heard discussed on a show about profitability, and it's serving a wide spectrum of clients, particularly for our guest, who is gender neutral there. You know, if you're not gender neutral, and I assume you're not, because not many people that listen to show have reported that they are. I don't know, but I know it's a massive opportunity in the market.

Yeah.

You have to understand this market. Well, this young friend of mine, Kyle, introduced me to gender neutrality and how to address this community and how to relate to it. We hit it off, and I've been begging him to come on the show, and he said, yep, you know, I'm back from Spain in Florida. Jacksonville or Jackson? Jacksonville.

Jacksonville.

Jacksonville. And I'm ready to come on the show, so I'm pumped for later on today.

Do we have any upbeat icebreakers today?

Yeah, it's just not beat. Instead of, like, Mike's doctor problem.

If you had to describe yourself in three words, what would they be?

Oh, my God.

Oh.

Does it have to be a sentence, or can it just be, like, three individual words? Okay.

Happy being alive. Boom.

You made a sentence out of it.

You did. Well, that's the three words.

I would say, like, three adjectives.

Sorry about you. He's like. Well, that just made it harder.

Happy, Appreciative. Content with being alive. Yeah. What's yours there, chief?

I don't know.

Okay, you're up, Christina. She needs time to process. I learned this yesterday about her.

Oh, gosh. I don't know.

Getting better.

Consider it.

Yes.

Warm, Loving, I guess.

Oh, I like that one. That was a very weak one. Loving.

Because I feel like they're all kind of the same thing, but I. I find myself lately just being very, like, embracing of the people around me.

Yeah. I consider matriarchal, and, I mean, that is such a powerful. Yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah, you. You have that. You have a wisdom and intelligence beyond your years, and you express it in a Loving way.

Thank you.

Yeah, it's very cut. I'm a slow processor.

That's three words right there. That's four. That's four.

And we're good.

Four words. Oh, I'm a. There you go.

That's even more slow processing.

Case in point.

Yeah, yeah.

Happy. Totally optimistic.

Totally.

Yeah. And slow processor.

No, I would say embracing. Like, you care so much about other people.

That's very true.

Yeah.

So this is a funny thing I thought about you. I've never shared this. You're so caring about other people. I'm like, oh, my God, you're the perfect person. You always put others and everything that you see above yourself. And I'm like, to me, that is. Is so remarkable. So I see that in you. But then I put you up on this pedestal, and then anytime, like you. You're not the perfect person. Like, really, like, once I was talking to you, I'm like, you know, in my head I go, the perfect person probably doesn't drink. I'm like, you're like, oh, I do whiskey, shots of fireballs. I'm like, really? But you're the perfect person.

Who are you?

So anytime you do something, nobody is perfect. Anytime you do something human, I'm like, that can't be Kelsey. So I'm sorry, but I put you way up there.

Well, that's very sweet and also awful.

I know. I know, right? That's what I'm thinking.

Okay, that was very thoughtful today. Thank you, Mike.

With a shout out.

I do. So I have Shootout two. Oh, my God, I can't speak.

I got a shootout the tool. What language was that?

Oh, God.

But you know, last week you said a word. Impressible.

Impressible.

It's a word.

It's a synonym of impressionable. So I feel quite smart right now.

You're extremely intelligent.

Anyway, so I have two shout outs. One is the community shout out. This is to Stuart Hobden. He goes, I am a seasoned accountant and financial advisor up here in Canada. A for the last 30 plus years, I've literally read thousands of books from selling, marketing, accounting. You name it, he's read it. Your book Profit first is worthy of an Oscar. The book, I have to say, is extremely well written, speaks from the heart, and the pearls of wisdom are simply abundant.

Oh, Stuart speaks very highly of you. Thank you so much. I don't know if books can win.

Oscars, but yours did your podcast.

My podcast.

There you go.

Yeah. So I did this podcast with American Express, the Turning Points. And thanks for pointing out it's Won the Oscars, it's won the Emmys and with the Grammys, Grammys, and also it's up for the Country Music Awards.

That's impressive.

Yeah.

So just real quick, I want to shout out to one of our new members, Lori, Greg. She's over in Australia. So she joined us, our organization, and after a week of starting profit first, implementing it in her business, she accidentally landed her very first E Crop client. And she says that her membership is already paying for herself. That's awesome. So congratulations, Lori. Welcome to the family.

Yeah, welcome.

And E CROP is an evaluation consultation. It's an acronym for helping businesses, perhaps yours, in implementing profit first, but also looking down the path, usually four to eight quarters out, and implementing a process to ensure profitability that is perpetually there. So that's awesome. So congratulations to her and you, my friends. If, if, if you're an accountant, bookkeeper, coach, reach out to us. And if you're not, if you're an entrepreneur, definitely reach out to us because you can be working with people like her and driving properly in your business.

And if you're an entrepreneur and you have a success story that you want to share with us, call that 844-876-7221 number and record your 22nd Little Diddy there.

Yeah, yeah. If you've achieved profitability, we gotta start playing. I get those queued up. I know we have some. I gotta start queuing up again. So if you've achieved profitability, we want to hear the profit shout out at 844-876-7221 or shootout or the other.

Right?

Yeah.

If it's not going so well, we'll do a shootout in a little bit too. We're gonna talk about nextiva, Receipt, Bank, Fundbox and Fundera. They are all sponsors of our show and we appreciate their support. We'll tell you more details about them. But first, I want to welcome Kyle Graden to our show. Kyle is passionate about removing the barriers and pressures of gender biases so that everyone is able to take their authentic self or be their authentic self while participating in the global economy. They have helped a variety of international organizations, including corporations, governments and agencies, and not for profits. And they are going to come on our show to talk about how to address this market. By serving the spectrum, you're going to guarantee profitability to your business. One thing you don't know about Kyle is they play music and they have to dance all the time. They are your doppelganger.

They are my doppelganger.

Kyle, welcome to the show.

Welcome, welcome, Kyle.

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

So you are my Mr. Sister. And we, I guess it was in Florida. We were hanging out together, getting a little schwasted, actually, and it was like 15 or 20 of us, and. And we started talking about gender bias, gender neutrality. And you really kind of gave me the one on one education on it, and I subsequently adopted the term. You're my Mr. Sister. Do you mind just addressing that right in the beginning what that means to someone who is gender neutral and why people that are not gender neutral need to use that terminology?

Yeah, absolutely. So something I realized in just being out as transgender and gender non conforming, which means my gender identity that was assigned at birth does not match my gender identity that I identify as today. And so language is something that really comes into play because so much of our language is gendered. You think pronouns, he or she, you think, you know, is this my son, daughter, or child? Like, how do we use language to make people feel most comfortable? And this comes up, you know, on a daily basis for me because the assumption is, because of the way I look, that I would use more masculine and male language and pronouns. So instead, I prefer that people use gender neutral language around me and I use the pronouns they, them, and theirs. And really what that that does for me, it shows that you respect me, that you see me for how I want you to see me, and that you're not making assumptions about me. So oftentimes I'll just throw it out there, hey, my name is Kyle, or Kile, if you prefer, since I also speak Spanish and my host mothers in Mexico and Spain were not able to pronounce Kyle. So Kile is also fine. But I always. Yeah, and then if we were doing video, I would show you my sign name that was given to me by my deaf and hard of hearing brother. And then I always say, you know, I use the pronouns they and them because pronouns, all they are substitute for name. So in the same way you would respect somebody's name. Like if your name is William, but somebody calls you Will, and you're like, hey, no, my name is William. Or if your name's David and someone's like, hey, David, and you're like, actually, you know, it's David. It's that same amount of respect that you would apply to addressing someone by name, that you would to address them by their pronouns or by their, you know, endearments. Like instead of hey, sir or hey, ma' am, you could say like, hey, folks, instead and so what the example you were talking about, Mr. Sister, you know, since it was a new concept and remembering to use neutral language is something that can be difficult. You and I had the conversation where we negotiated like, hey, you know, how are we going to communicate with each other? And how can I address you in a way that you're going to be comfortable with? That's also going to be easy for you. So you suggested Mr. Sister. And for me I thought that was great because it shows that you recognize that I have gender fluidity and it's fun. So we had the conversations where we're getting to know each other better. And now you don't have to be worried about using the wrong language or messing up or whatever because we found a common way that we can identify ourselves to each other.

Yeah, because when I use the word them or they, I think of plural. So I think there's multiple people on a physical scene in front of myself. But when Kyle and I are talking and I said Mr. Sister, I'm like that. To me, a. It's a rhyming word so it's easy to remember. But now I can see a singular person. Yeah, yeah. So that made it easy for me. But also, Kyle, I gotta acknowledge your acceptance of that. Like, you know, you said, yeah, that that's a cool way of communicating that it resonated with you. I could see some people getting kind of staunch and saying, no, no, you know, you call me David or nothing else.

Right.

And you had that fluidness in accepting a different term. Is that normal in most communities?

I would say, I think that's something that's pretty unique to me because language is personal. And so every person you're going to encounter is different. So not every gender non conforming or gender neutral person will use they them pronouns. Some will say he or she is fine. And so again and having that conversation, you're getting back to knowing that person better, which is the ultimate goal of relationships, especially in building business relationships for me, because even some people are like, you know, they, they and them, that it's plural, the grammar, it's confusing. Even though the Miriam Webster dictionary did add they as a singular they. So we have to remember that our language constantly updates. But I had a manager actually at my last company that was, you know, that said, you know, they is really, really hard for me. Is it okay if I just call you Kyle? And I'm thinking, okay, I'm trying to build brand equity on my name, so I'm not going to change it. And so if you keep saying Kyle in a sentence in a group meeting, then people will know that you're talk about me. And so I find that beneficial. But some people, like, if they may not be comfortable, if you're purposely avoiding pronouns and just calling their name just to avoid that, they may feel like, especially if you use pronouns for other people around you, they may feel like they're being treated differently. And the idea is to treat everyone with the same amount of respect that we know and that we've learned just to something that we may not understand. And it's okay if you don't understand someone's gender identity or other facet of identity, the identity. It doesn't mean that it's invalid though. You just have to figure out a way to use the tools that we have, language and whatnot, to facilitate a better conversation and come to that understanding. And the example that you use on the beginning of this podcast, like your first impression of that person was different than the reality after you got to know them. It's the same thing. Maybe the first impression could be like, oh, I don't know how this person identify. I'm scared, whatever. And then after you talk about it more, you're like, oh, yeah, can I call you my Mr. Sister? Yeah, that's great.

Right? Right. You build a little bit of rapport and you rapport and explore. And Kyle, that's pretty good, right? Yeah. So Kyle and I, we're hanging out. There's a party that breaks loose. Bailey is cooking up some amazing Mexican food. She's. There's guacamole being served, margaritas by prepared by someone that really knows how to make a good margarita. And I don't know, there's like 10 or 15 of us and Kyle, we're all talking stuff. And then you look at me, say, mike, you know, businesses could be a million times more profitable if they understood there's a spectrum of customers out there. It's not just businesses shouldn't just look for copies of themselves out there. They should look at the entire spectrum. What did you mean by the spectrum?

That is an excellent question. So first of all, we have to think, when we're talking about business relationships, who are we talking about? In a business to customer relationship, you have the customer who has their own identity, their own realm of experience. But then also in the business, you have each person that is either building a product or service for the customer or that is interacting with the customer. And so when I say spectrum, what I'm really talking about, because that word can be applied to, you know, the autism spectrum, the sexuality spectrum, faith spectrum, or in what we're talking about today, gender spectrum, is kind of lumping all those different facets of identity into one and building a framework to quickly think about all these facets of identity, ability, race, national origin, gender identity, sexuality, family, faith, personal expression, and the language as an interconnected spectrum and really help people establish a groundwork for how to accommodate new types of diversity and new challenges that arise based on the intersectionality of these spectrum. So you especially think of, you know, younger generation are coming out more and more gender fluid and more fluid with their sexuality. You know, there's going to be things that arise about how people identify themselves that we may not even have talked about yet. And so how do you yourself build a framework that will be inclusive to the existing identity spectrums will also allow you to be able to expand that and apply that. And again, it's the same amount of respect with language and interactions to a growing set of people and diversity. Especially when you think, because maybe I have a gender identity, but I also have a sexuality and I also have a race, and maybe I have a disability or I have someone in my life that I care about that has a disability, and therefore I can be an ally to that person. Person. So what we're really talking about is, I mean, you could even just call it people's DNA combined with their set of experiences in the world that has shaped how they view, you know, different things or different products and services. So that's what we're really talking about when we talk about, you know, the spectrum. And when I say embrace the spectrum, it's saying, embrace, you know, all parts of ourselves and of others.

So how do I get started as a business owner? I have a business doing whatever I want to get more profitable. I realize I've been offering my product to a narrow, you know, a narrow community, whatever it is based upon gender or sexual orientation or religion. How do I start opening it up? How do I start broadening it?

Yeah. Well, I would say first, embrace your own spectrum. You know, understand the parts of yourself that maybe you've felt a little insecure about or that maybe you haven't shared as publicly and figure it out how you fit in to this spectrum and how that affects your experiences with places that you go shopping. And then you can expand that to your team, have a conversation that will help you understand your team better and how to leverage their diversity and how to leverage their experiences to make your whole company more inclusive. And it will also give you will bring up more questions that you'll have to ask yourself. You know, knowledge is power. The more that you know about a certain demographic or identity, the better you'll be able to apply what you know to those customer experiences. So it starts with yourself and then your team, and then you can go and you can even, you know, you know, look at customer feedback and things like that. But it is really challenging. You know, if you even just coming out as LGBT inclusive or as not LGBT inclusive, you will have community uproar on both sides. People that are LGBT will be like, okay, we don't want to shop with you. But then there also may be people that are like, hey, you know, we're not. We don't want to accept LGBT people. So now that you're saying that you are, we don't want to help you. There also can be technical limitations. Like, for me, you know, collecting gender on forms is extremely important for me, because if you're just asking gender, male or female, well, I'm not able to give the best answer. I don't exactly know what your collecting that gender for. So it's asked a question. You know, marketing is a big one. And what I talk about a lot like, so marketers are so accustomed to using gender to target, but if you're selling something that really isn't gender or sex specific, why do you need that information? And therefore, you can consider, maybe I don't want to collect it. Maybe I do. If I am collecting it, I want to let the customer know why and how I'm going to use it. And I want to make sure that I'm giving enough options. And so there's questions like that that'll arise.

And you use that acronym lgbt. Now, Kelsey's not familiar with what that is. What is that?

That's not true. I'm very familiar.

Christine doesn't know what that means.

I know what it is too.

Is it lesbian, gay, bisexual, transvestite, transgender?

Close.

Close. Yeah.

So that's actually an excellent question and something that I have to remind myself that not everyone across the US and even around the world are familiar with that acronym. So when we say lgbt, that more of an umbrella label for lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender. Oftentimes you'll see lgbtq, lgbtqia, which the A can be ally, it could be asexual, the I can be intersex, the Q can be queer questioning. And you can see, like, as you dive more and more into it, it kind of feels maybe overwhelming, like, oh, there's a bunch of things I Don't know. And what I try to, you know, teach individuals and companies is, first of all, don't assume. If you assume somebody's identity, that's where you're going to really. That's kind of where the root of the problems are. And then to let people self identify labels. So for me, depending what context, you know, I lie under both the T and the bisexual and transgender. Although if you were to ask me how I identify my sexuality, I would say pansexual, which, it's similar to bisexuality, but it's more of I'm attracted to the person regardless of their gender and viewing gender as a spectrum. And for transgender, I identify myself as gender non conforming, which means that I have a gender that's more so in the middle on the spectrum.

Okay, so I'm already getting a little bit overwhelmed, right. So I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I have my community and now there's this. Such a greater community I was amiss with you suggested Kyle. First I start investigating myself, like embrace my own spectrum and then start broadening out from there. I'm also fearful, though, if I try to be more inclusive, do I become exclusive of the community I've already been serving?

Yeah. So first exploring yourself. It's, you know, an exercise that I did at certain pride events and events to help people think of it in non binary terms. So outside of like the male and female binary is we had a gender spectrum. On one side, we had masculine, on the other side, we had feminine. At the top, we had more like no gender. And then at the bottom we had more of like bigender gender fluid, more of a mix of both. In the middle, we had uncertain. And so when we asked people possibly for the first time, to identify outside of the male and female binary, what we got was this amazing array of people identifying all across the spectrum. And it's really. I mean, there's no kind of like, like set spectrum that's been agreed upon. And so it's really, it's what it means to you. So if you go and you identify all the way to the left and masculine and that's your identity, that's your identity. But if you say, hey, maybe I'm more in the middle, but I still identify myself as male and I use he, him pronouns and masculine language, you know that that process of self reflection is okay, why are you going a little bit more towards the middle? Maybe it's you like to express yourself with more femininity. Maybe it's because you feel like you're more caring and nurturing and more of, you know, the qualities that we attribute to women versus men. And then, yeah, the fear is very real of, like, if I'm, you know, very vocally in support of one group, maybe another group will not be so receptive. And what I'm saying is, you know, a lot of companies we're seeing are doing marketing and that they turn to that as their way to diversify and get more customers. And what I think is the best approach is just to be authentic and again, apply that same level of respect and relationship building that you do with the customers that you have now to a new set of customers. And in those personal customer interactions, that's where you want to step to the plate and show your inclusivity so that you don't even have to go out and say, hey, yes, we accept this population of people. It's when that population of people come to your business or service, you can say, hey, I see you for who you are. I want to be accommodating to you. I'm going to apply that same level of respect. And in my case, you know, just knowing that gender is more than a spectrum and being accommodating of that goes more than, you know, having a rainbow flag in your. Which is the pride. LGBT Pride flag in your window. Because if I see that and I go in, but I, you know, you're still calling me sir, or actually, I have an example. So I. My journey as a customer has been very interesting. So I really like high heels. I'm just, like, obsessed with them. And I always have been, like, Christina's.

Eyes perked up, by the way.

Yes, they're great. They make you taller and feel fabulous, and it's wonderful. And so I pass them in the window, and I would always want them, but never had the courage to buy them. And the reason was because, like many young people, I got bullied heavily in school for perceived sexuality. And then when I finally, for the first time, wore dress and heels in public with my friends who were very supportive, I had a bad incident where a photo was taken, sent to my mother, and I was scared that I was going to lose all of my opportunities of going to college and getting kicked out. And so whenever I. So the first time I went into a shoe store to buy heels and buy shoes, I went up to the, you know, customer service desk to just ask the question, what are the differences in sizes? Because I'm new to it. And they would probably know. And before I even opened my mouth, the person at the desk was like, oh, men's shoes are over there. And I was just like. And what that does is it reminds me that, okay, yes, I look like a male. Yes, I'm going to have more of these pressures of gender biases. It's already hard to look as I do and wear heels down the street, and it's the first time I'm buying them. So what that did is brought me back to that experience that I had that fear when I was younger. And that's really what you want to avoid, is you don't want to, you know, remind people of the stuff they're already dealing with when they're coming, you know, to shop. You want to embrace why they're there. And so, you know, the better approach would just be like, hey, how can I help you? I would ask the question. It would have gone over much better. And I even, even had experiences and just showing the failures of marketing, I had one of them, my best friends come with me. I searched this exact brand. I found their mobile app. I was browsing their mobile app. I found this amazing pair of heels that I had to have. I went in the store with my friend, we bought them. And then later, because I gave my email address at the checkout counter, I got an email marketing email that was for men's loafers. I'm thinking, okay, they never asked my gender, so maybe they assumed it at. At the cash register. All the data I have shows I'm looking at heels. It would be a better approach to say, hey, do you want to, like, check out the latest, you know, collection of heels versus men's loafers? And every email I've gotten since then is about men's shoes. And so I'm like, okay, now I'm getting turned off from this brand. So you first want to make sure that you have the knowledge of these spectrums and how to apply the same level inclusivity that you would to any customers to. To this new demographic. And then make sure those experiences are going to remind them why they came to you to shop or whatnot. And then you don't have to worry about alienating really anyone. And especially even if you do in your marketing, you want to say, hey, we're accepting to this group of people. Find an example of a customer that you serve that falls into both groups, you know, maybe. And that's where the intersectionality comes into play, because too often do we try to group people. Like, LGBT in itself is so vast and different with all the different, you know, again, labels of sexuality. But Also, people that are LGBT are also people of color. They're also people with disabilities. They're also people from all over the world. And so you know that one label, one identity is not all of who you are. You're multiple faith. And so you have to recognize that and recognize that because we're different in the world we live in, because there is so much misunderstanding, particularly about gender neutrality, is that you have to make the extra effort to be accommodating to those people. And that, again, it may not even be anything that you did, because, like, me, if somebody calls me sir, okay, nine times out of ten, whatever, just move on. But maybe that ten times, if I'm having a rough day and it just reminds me, yeah, maybe I'll get mad and I'll yell or what I do, actually, I'm like, I am that kind of customer. I'm that guy. I'll just walk out of a store, I'll be like, okay, what you did, you just assumed my genetics feel uncomfortable. I'm here to buy heels. You lost my business. Or at the end of a customer service call, if they, you know, say, Mr. Graydon, at the beginning, I'll simply ask a question. At the end, I said, okay, so you called me Mr. Graydon. I don't remember anywhere where I identified my gender or that I prefer that language. Can you please change it in your system? And the bank that I have? Actually, they did. They were like, oh, yeah, sorry, no, didn't realize. We'll change it. So when I went into the bank, the bank teller could pull up the information and say, oh, you prefer to just be called Kyle, not Mr. Graden. And there's so many different touch points. You know, it's the in store visits, it's the phone calls, you know, direct mail even, and all these different sales and customer service interactions where you can apply this inclusivity and understanding of the spectrum without all of your customers having to know that you're doing this.

What's your ideal customer service situation? What has been an exemplary experience that you've had?

Honestly, I prefer when people don't make a big deal about my gender or if I'm wearing nail polish, and they just treat me with, you know, warmth and hospitality and just really make sure that they get the help that I need. I was actually. I was watching a video, and to think expanding the same concept beyond gender, gender identity and gender neutrality is there was a video of a young person that was hard of hearing, was deaf, and they were talking about their customer service interaction. They went to the customer service desk to like get a return. And the lady, you know said, you have to call this number. And the person was like, well, I'm deaf. I can't do that. How can you help me? And the person just kept writing and underlining the number. And the guy was like, you're not even trying. You're not even trying to help. The existing processes just was not accessible to this person. And so they talk about the diversity in having teams. If you have someone that is familiar with disabilities or has a disability, they would know that process is inaccessible. So an ideal in that situation, if the person went above and beyond their daily duties, the process says, hey, just call this number. But since the person can't do that, finding a solution that fits for that individual customer. Whenever I have people that they don't make assumption, they don't make it about gender, when it doesn't have to be, and instead focus on the task at hand and, and serving my needs or getting me the product that I need is, really goes a long way.

I want to know about the size of the market. I have a business, I want to be as profitable as possible. Do you have any sense of how much opportunity I'm missing on by not being gender inclusive?

Oh my gosh, a lot of opportunity. So with gender specifically, since gender fluidity and gender non conforming and gender neutrality gets lumped in with sexuality, as one of those others, the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce, which is a group that represents businesses owned by lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people, reported that LGBT business in the US contributed to more than $1.7 trillion to the US economy and created 33,000 jobs. So it is a significant market. And again, that's just lgbt. I also found numbers for people with disabilities that close to 56.7 million Americans, which is 18.7% of the US population, experience some type of disability. And so in thinking of these customer bases, it is a huge, large market size. And part of the reason of wanting to be more inclusive in thinking about this interconnected spectrum is that you'll be able to increase your market reach. Not only that is when customers have a better experience, they'll be more loyal. And when they do, like, for me, if I'm like, oh, I had a really great customer experience shopping at a certain clothing brand, I'm going to post to Facebook and tell my friends so that my other gender non conforming friends know that that's a place they can go. But the reverse is true. If you have a bad experience Then everyone's going to know about that as well. And so you really want to avoid bad experiences by having the tools and the language and the knowledge. And then again, it's applying that same level of respect and serving your customers that you would anyone.

My thought is, and you're changing my opinion now is it was a either or situation. Either I'm spectrum, I serve the spectrum. And by doing that, I am going to exclude the community where I started. What I'm hearing for is I don't need to compromise the way I address or service my existing client base, but I can open up my arms to a much larger community without compromising the people I'm serving today. Is that a fair assessment?

I would say absolutely. And again, it goes back to the individual. Just because they have a certain identity doesn't mean they're going to behave in a certain way. And everyone has their own values. When assessing both where they want to work and what values they have. Maybe being out in the workplace is important, maybe it's not. And when I say out, I mean out. As lgbt, some people may say, hey, okay, like, like for me, if you've donated to an LGBT hate group, I'm not going to spend my money at your business because I know where some of the profits are going. But other than that, like, if I, like, let's say I'm going down the street and I need gas, right? Okay. I have two options. Well, first I'm going to pick by price because I'm trying to save money, so I would pick one with a cheaper price. But if I had saw a news article about the CEO of one of the companies saying something negative about my identity or about people that I care about, then I'm going to make sure I don't shop at that business. But I think, you know, you know, many business owners have built their businesses as they have. They have their own, you know, things that are important to them. So I don't think that there really is a trade off. And I think that even in how people behave and choose to shop or not shop, based off of all these various factors and, you know, especially in the world today, the, the conversations that are going on, that's dividing us more. There's going to be a spectrum of people's choices and what's important to them when they make that decision to shop. That's why I say, you know, the marketing side isn't as important. And it's more of when you do have that customer making sure that you're not making them Feel unwelcome. For instance, if a transgender woman comes in and you immediately are like, I don't know what to do. I don't know how to view you. And you're really unsure of yourself, well, that person's going to know that, and they're going to feel uncomfortable. Then same thing. If a person in a wheelchair comes in into your store or into a business meeting, and your reaction is like, they're in a wheelchair. I don't know what to do. Then it's like, okay, you're showing that you're uncomfortable, which is good, and it's just starting that business relationship off bad. Same thing. Like, if you have a person in a wheelchair that comes in and you have to go to the third floor, you're not like, okay, let's go. Take the stairs away. You're gonna be like, okay, we'll use the elevator instead. And so you just change based off of that customer, how you're going to be welcoming to them. Same thing with, like, you know, gender neutral person. You just ask how they want to be identified. If you don't know, don't make a big deal of it. And instead of saying, oh, you know, like, for me, the men's bathrooms over there, you'd say, hey, you know, here's where the bathroom facilities are. You choose the bathroom that you're most comfortable with. And I should also take a step back. And the reason that I really focus on gender, even though in this spectrum, talking about multiple facets of identity, is I think about it in three different parts. You have your DNA, which determines your sex chromosomes, your features, such as if you're able to grow facial hair or have broad shoulders, whatnot. It also determines your skin color, your race, as well as, in many cases, if you're born with a disability. So you have that as separate from your gender identity, which is your inherent sense of self, which is. Which is in itself a fluid spectrum, and that as separate from your gender expression and the language you use to identify yourself. And right now, what's happening is all those are getting lumped together. And so your sex equals your gender identity, which equals, you know, how you should dress and what language you should use. And what we're saying is, no, people should decide for themselves how they express themselves and what language they use, their identity. Gender identity is valid, and it's true to who they are, and that is not directly correlated with somebody's actual body.

We only have about a minute left, but I want to ask this. When it comes to the profitability who is the bigger opportunity? Is it small business that embraces the spectrum or big business that embraces the spectrum?

Oh, that's a, that's an interesting question. I think they both have a really great opportunity to do so, just in very different strategic ways. At the end of the day, a business owner is going to know their customer base. Especially like you think a global business versus a very local small business. Who your customers are, what industry you're in, all these factors are going to take into a part. But I would say that there's depending on the size and scale, like if you're a small business and you only operate in one area, there may be only so many diverse customers that you can reach by being this extra inclusive. Whereas a large company, you're reaching a lot more people. And the more people you reach, the more intersectionality, the more they'll have layering identities that affect their purchasing decisions. But I definitely think both, especially if the nature of your business is building long term lasting relationships. Again, at the end day, it's about connecting and building relationships with people. And the more you can know about what makes people different and what you know because of their difference, how they've had a different experience navigating this world than you, the better off you're going to be, the better able you're going to relate with that customer and better able to serve them, which in the end means more profit.

I love it. All right, my dear listeners, you've met my Mr. Sister. Kyle can help you guide your business to serious profitability by embracing Spectrum. Kyle, where can they learn more about you?

Yeah, right now if you go to Kyle Graden.com that has most of my info and the best way to reach me. And I am getting ready to launch a consulting business called Embrace the Spectrum, where a co op of different consultants across race, disability, gender, sexuality are coming together to really solve for specific needs for your business.

So powerful. Kyle, thank you for coming on the show. Amazing stuff. Thank you.

Thanks, Kyle.

Great. Thank you for having me.

So he gets a bazinga. Yeah. So here's what we're gonna do. Nothing out of the ordinary, but maybe if you're a first time listener, you're like, what do they do next? What we do is we're gonna talk about what we learned from them today then and we're also gonna share a little details about our sponsors, make the show a reality and we may do what your stripper name is. Oh, we did that last week. Okay, so first before we do that, Christine, would you punch me There you go. Thank you. Okay.

You're welcome.

I want to thank Fund box.

Yes.

You know why?

Why?

Because they're our sponsor. Why you do that? I know. You should know that. And they're the best forever. They are now. Fundbox is a cash flow accelerator. If you have any invoices due to you, they will release the funds to you immediately. And regards the customer. It could be a gender fluid customer, it could be a non gender fluid customer. It doesn't make a difference. There's money due to you. Fundbox gets the fund to use funds to you, typically within 24 hours or less.

Amazing.

Yeah. Cash flow accelerator. Receipt bank. That you weren't going to say them. You're like, okay, receipt. So receipt bank. Receipt bank is one of those systems that is probably the ultimate automation tool when you get that receipt. You ever go to like anywhere you go to a restaurant store, they give you a receipt. Sometimes they give you receipts like it's like this long. You ever go to like a Electronics. Yes. Cvs. It's like a disclaimer. Like the medicine you bought will kill you. The fact that you have a receipt this long is actually destroying the planet. There's a whole section about how dangerous that receipt is. Did you see the meme that went around with it? Yeah, hysterical. Type in CVS receipt meme.

You actually made a blog about it.

Oh yeah, that's a good point. Touche. Touche. But Receipt bank solves that. You just scan it right in. You just so you know, when they say, oh, please sign this receipt, the one you have to sign give back to me. You say, sign it and say, let me take a picture of that into Receipt Bank. You go back and say, don't print anything else out. Let's not kill the paper. By the way, it's already synced up. Sunk up. Synchronization. Synced to, synced to. It's already synced to my accounting system. Them.

Yeah.

And by the way, when you start having that conversation with the cashier, it gets really awkward. Like I'm like, just give me the receipt, I take a picture of it.

Awkward or are you awkward?

It's awkward. Like, there's the cashier, give me the receipt. I sign and say, wait, I take a picture and then I look at you and say, you know, this is syncing up with my accounting system and you're sitting here like, I got customers to serve.

Yeah.

And I'm boring you. That was awkward, right?

I don't think that was awkward.

Oh, well, you weren't a Cashier.

It was very informative.

It was okay.

Okay, okay.

All right, who else? Nexteva. Next.

Eva.

Voice over IP phone system.

Mm.

Here's the cool thing. Not only does it have a standard phone system that replaces the old school ones, it's all over the Internet. It's voiceover ip. It also synchronizes with your cell phone. We have someone that we are getting this voice. This. Yeah, we can't say her name, but not yet. But we're getting this phone system for who often is in a rural area.

Yes.

And she's like, my Internet connection here is like 14 kilobytes. Like the old dial up modem. Terrible, terrible. She's like, but my cell reception is really good. She's like, so I can't use nextiva phone. We said, wait, you can use nextiva phone. It synchronizes with your cell and it pops up and says you have a nextiva call coming in. And when she dials out from her phone through the nextiva app, it comes off as caller ID from the office.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's awesome.

Nextiva. I love you. Did I miss anyone? One stop Shop for your loans. You need money for your business. Fundera.com. f u n d e r a dot com. That was an awkward pause there. Fundera dot com. But you go there, you tell them what you need your loan for. They shop the loan for you and come back and say, here's the options that are available right now. And they let you pick the one that's best for you. But they'll also give you some guidance on it. Okay, what'd you learn today? Oh, I gotta push the button. There it is.

So what'd you learn today?

I like that you used to make. Oh, my God, it's so horrible. Now you're like, that's horrible.

I still make faces.

Yeah, she always cringingly hard.

I think it sounds really good.

Ye, me too. Thank you.

Especially the. The.

Was that vibrato?

Vibrato. The vibrato. Super nice. Okay, who wants to go first?

I'll go. Kelsey, go ahead.

Okay. So my biggest takeaway was just that we had this conversation. It makes me immensely happy that we can have a dialogue around this because I think it makes space in society to define ourselves beyond gender.

Yeah.

And I love that. Beyond any labels. But I think that, you know, we get into those rote definitions of who we are, who we should be, how we should act, and I think that this is the start. And like you said, I mean, they said, there you go. You know, 1.2 trillion people as a market, you know, that are huge. It's all of us, you know, that there's no reason why we should continue to define ourselves that way.

Yeah. It wasn't 1.2 trillion people. It was $1.2 trillion.

1.7.

Because the plant, the plan has about 6 billion. Now you're. You're going interglobal. You're like other plants.

You have no idea how many people are out there.

I know, but that's. That's great. Yeah. The fact we had the conversation. I love that. What'd you learn?

I mean, I'm doing just. I'm really happy, too, that we're finally accepting people as individuals rather than trying to put people in a box, as they said. But it's just also, this episode to me, just serves as a reminder to, you know, stop assuming what people are coming through your door with and just be a genuine, good person and ask questions rather than saying, oh, this is what you're looking for. It's over there. Rather than, how can I help you? What can I do for you today? And taking that extra step to make them feel like you. You care for them individually and. And you want what's best for them.

Yeah. So I like the break from the binary.

Yeah.

I never realized how binary is until Kyle started sharing some stories and he said that, you know, he's moving to Spain in Spanish, everything is male, female. It's. So binary ends in an A or an O. Cars. Like, is it a gojet?

You know a lot of languages.

Yeah, yeah.

All of the Romance languages.

Yeah, all the Romance. And it's interesting. I mean, there's this massive community that's on the spectrum. So I like that. I like about exploring yourself because I think we can find with the template that's put in front of us, and we really don't explore all the different elements of ourself.

Yeah.

And I think people are afraid to do that too.

Yeah.

But I think if you do that, you start seeing, wow, there's. There's a lot more in this world. But my favorite thing, which is the adage for a profitable business, is show warmth and hospitality to all. Yeah, that was it.

Yeah, that was it.

Just warmth and hospitality. No one. I don't think Carl's not expecting perfect from the world. He surely hasn't experienced that. But if we show warmth, hospitality, and seek to understand, he embraces it and he's doing the same for us. He's showing warmth and hospitality. And they are. Thank you. They Are showing the same for us. Right. I just made a mistake, but. And Kyle will help navigate that.

Right. And that's what's nice. It's like. Like the fact that we had this conversation. The fact that he is going. They are going into companies to talk about it because it is. It's so taken for granted that it needs. It just. It needs to be planted in our brains.

Totally. Totally. And there's an exception. No one's expecting perfect here. Kyle's not expecting perfect, but expecting improvement. And we all got to step up and respect. And respect.

Yes.

And warmth and hospitality and high heels.

Yeah. I mean, not even I can deliver. Deliver perfect. And I work in this space every day, so there you go.

There you go. But high heels makes it better. We should impress. My heels.

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm actually a little bit intrigued now. Not that I want to wear high heels necessarily, but I do like wearing boots with high heels, and I. I like the lift. So now I'm like, maybe I should wear stilettos.

You might like it.

Yeah.

There's no reason why you can't.

All right, we gotta get out of here, y' all. Christina, take it. What we will do with our podcast.

You can go to profit first, podcast dot com. Of course.

Yeah.

And leave your questions and your comments and whatever you want to tell us, we want to hear it.

Go to itunes, stitcher, wherever you listen on your podcast, or please rate and review. We very much appreciate it's best way for other people to find out about and listen. Do you want profit in your business? I mean, embrace the spectrum, serve their community. But I'll tell you one thing. The only way you'll be able to do that is by sustaining your profitability. Like, if you're not profitable. We talked about that two episodes back now, two weeks ago.

Yeah.

If you ain't profitable. Moshe was here, remember? He says if you had no money, you go out of business.

Yeah.

So you have to be profitable. How do you sustain profitability? We believe it's by following the first method. It's so easy to implement. It's not necessarily easy to stick with. It's like joining a gym. It's so easy to go to the gym the first time, try to go for the rest of your life. That's why we have trainers. Just like the gyms have trainers, we have profit first professionals ready to work with you hand in hand to make your business profitable. You can find them real easily. Go to profitfirstprofessionals.com. step one, step two. Oh, that was weird. I don't normally do it. Step 2 Fill out the form real simply and tell us about you. We will find the best profit first professional who's matched up to you and make an introduction. By the way they are. They're members of our organization. They've been certified in our method but their own independent businesses, they're not our business. So there's no obligation saying this is the only person available for you. We'll make the best recommendation. You then evaluate them. We strongly suspect they'll be phenomenal for you but if they don't they aren't a match for your needs. You can seek out another profit first professional. We have a lot of profit first professionals ready to help you. You just have to take the first step. Go to profitfirstprofessionals.com right right now. I think that's it. Enjoy us next week.

Yeah, can't wait.

Bye everybody.

See you all.

Sam.