Episode 177: Finding a Gap in the Market with Sarah Jones

So I. But I used to be a guy thing. I like. There's this thing, it's not the whoopee cushion, but it's like this. This more of like a gelatin type material. You push it into a. A box type thing. And it sounds raw, wet, and gross.

Oh, disgusting.

So my mother, this is about 10 years ago. We used to go to Long Beach Island. That's the beach off of the Jersey Shore.

And.

And we used to go down there and she has this big family dinner. We cook this big seafood meal, and everyone sits at the table. My mother likes to make like a toast. Like, it's so nice to have the family together. So I have this box.

Oh, no.

She goes, I'd like to make it. And you hear, right? And my mother stops and looks around and says, nothing.

No shame.

No, she says nothing. She says nothing. And she goes. And she starts doing the presentation again, like, you know, I liked it. And you hear? And she goes. She just looks at me and goes, michael, I go, what? She goes, could you please excuse yourself from the table? So I'm like, of course. As I stand up, I go, right. And I sit back down. Everyone starts laughing because everyone knows it's me. That's what I do.

Yeah. You also bought a fart machine for our office.

Oh, that was great.

But you're still missing, I think, right?

Ron got so angry because I hid the fart machine to Ron's desk and he was having a meeting and I hit it, you hear? And everyone looks at Ron. He's like, what?

It was really funny in the beginning when we didn't know what it was.

It took him like three times.

I know. And then once he found it, he's like, everybody, yeah, he's over using it. You can't do that. All right, let's get into the me the show here, Christina.

Okay. You're listening to the Profit first podcast, episode 176. Welcome everyone, to Profit first podcast. I'm your co host, Christina Bolduch.

And I am Mike Michalowicz, the host of the show, the author of Profit First.

Wait, what was the name of that again?

Profit First. The author of Profit First. I was almost a podcast. I tried to stop myself. I also wrote a new book that's coming out. I don't even know if it's in store available for pre order yet, but go check on Amazon. It's called Clockwork. It's about business efficiency. That's right. It's called Clockwork. The emphasis I have is magical. I'm joined in studio by Kelsey Ayers.

Hey, everybody.

Who is maybe a fan favorite? We were talking about this a few days ago. She may be winning the fan favorite award.

No, I'm not winning the fan favorite.

Yeah. No, seriously, I think you might be. I'm in dead last. It's between you and Christina. And you, my friends, you're listening to the Profit first podcast. This show where we explore every single element of profitability. Here's a question for you. Say you were running an online business. Maybe one that maybe helped men who were trying to get the dating scene but were kind of introverted and nervous. Could you be profitable? Our guest says hells to the yes. And she'll tell us exactly how she did it for her business. Back to you, Christine.

Thank you.

Sorry, she was diddling over there.

Yeah, stop the diddling.

You can find us on Stitcher, tune in radio, Google Play, itunes, any podcaster, and of course, profitfirstpodcast.com. kelsey, what have you been up to?

Hi. I haven't really been up to anything. I've been working whole lot. I'm trying to save for a house, so I work every day.

You're working. It's an animal.

Yeah.

And you're working at a bar.

Yeah, you know, she's.

I'm doing a speech today.

Slinging drinks, guys.

You're a drink slinger?

Yeah.

Do you remember a game? This is another 70s reference. A game called Bar Tapper or just called Tapper. A video game?

Oh, I think so.

You fill up the beer and you slide. You got it. This reminds me, Ralph, he.

He references it in recognition.

No, I didn't.

I think you can get it for your computer.

Okay, Tapper. Yeah, that'll help me.

Yeah. You gotta fill the drink. You throw it down, and then people.

Like, it starts all day long.

Good training.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And right now, it just crashes into them and spills all over the place. Right, right.

Well, that's what happens in the game. They don't catch it. It crashes. You gotta be very careful. What have you been with?

So I kind of took the plunge into a more social media stance, and I've created a fitness Instagram for myself to help with accountability. Cause I've been slacking. So I've been on it for about a month. I've got like 70 followers so far. But it's actually. It's working because I noticed, like, if I post something on there, like, it forces me to do it because I'm like, wow, I'm actually putting this out there. There are people who have no clue who I am that are like, oh, she's doing it. So it's actually. It's been good. It's been very motivational.

Awesome.

I love that. Good for you.

Thank you.

I had to work out. We had here at the office yesterday. Yeah, that was pretty cool. Ryan was like a big naysayer. I was like, that's so stupid. And then he got into it.

I like that he liked it.

Yeah, I like that he liked it. And I like that he says, I was a big naysayer about it and I liked it. Like, yeah, like, he realizes when he was negative about something, like, he's like, oh, no, you know what? I was wrong.

He's coming out of his shell.

He really was having a mantrum on.

Oh, it was like, of a true mantrum.

Yeah.

Yeah. Really? He was a stamp his feet and stuff. Moaning about me.

No, just in general. Happened to do things that he didn't want to do.

Yeah. And then he loves it. Yeah, I get it. But. But, you know, God bless him, because he's like, yeah, you know what? That was awesome. Now he wants to do it again. The first of the exercises he used to do were, like, football exercises.

That's what I'm sore from, man. My upper legs.

Unbelievable. He has squatting and running around the office, and I have this injured, you know, my foot still hurt, so I can't do that. So Ben, our intern, was filming.

I saw that. And you were just hopping.

You see everyone, like, running by, like, really tough. And then you see me, like, flower boy behind and everyone throwing flowers in the air.

We have that up on Instagram.

Oh, he's on Instagram.

Profit first pro.

Everyone's like, who's the sissy there? Oh, it's Mike. It's Mike.

Oh, so funny. So a quick community shout out out to Trent Conway. He said, I won't take much of your time, but I need to recommit. I've been doing great with Profit first for about two and a half months, but the last week or so, I've gotten extra busy, and I don't want to lose focus on this. I'm sticking to it. 100% believe in the system, but I realized that it would be easy to let the system slip away and just wing it again.

All right, Trent, hang in there, dude. Yeah, dude.

Now we're your accountability partners.

Yeah. I mean, it's on air. Like, this is forever, dude. Forever. So, Trent, congratulations. Stick with it, man. Drive that profitability. There is no turning back because, you know, it's on air now. And hey, you, listener. If you want to give us a little shout out about what you're doing with profitability, you can email us. It's mikemicalitz.com or you can call us. That's what we prefer. Call 844-876-7221 and just record your message, your commitment to profitability. We want to hear it. And we'll play it on the air. Is there any. Oh, our corporate partners, right.

Yes.

So thank you to nextiva and Receipt bank for all you do. We'll talk about more about those folks in just a little bit. Oh, and also one last shout out to American Express Turning Points.

Yeah.

And then we can take it off my little thing here. But do you know that one? Did I tell you it won the Oscars?

Yeah. And the Grammys.

Oh, you heard.

And the Tonys and the Country Music.

Award and some international awards.

Oh, yeah, the Vietnamese one.

The Vietnamese Podcast of the Year award.

That's just astonishing.

And now supposedly we're up for an award in North Korea now. That's unbelievable. That is truly unbelievable.

That is groundbreaking.

Truly.

I think it may bridge all the conflict that's occurring.

Well, thank God for that.

The American Express Turning Points podcast. I feel like a hero. And I don't mean to be the.

Most famous man in the world.

I am the most caring person in the world. And I don't say that lightly. I really, I really mean it. No. So American Express has a show called Turning Points. And if you haven't heard it yet, I'm the host. If you haven't figured out. And that's why it's won so many awards, in my opinion. Check it out. Download it. There's. It's a six episode series of just cool. It is actually a lot of fun. It's kind of cool.

It is cool.

And I. And I gotta be honest, we didn't win all those awards. I mean, no, we won most of them.

Just the North Korea one.

Yeah. That's made up. I made that one up. The rest is all legit. Her name is Sarah Jones. I love doing that. I love doing that. The awkward posture. That wasn't. That was intentional. I swear to God. You thought I missed my mark. It was intentional. Her name is Sarah Jones.

Hey.

No, I'm not done. I'm still reading you, Sarah.

Stop giving awkward pauses.

Nobody knows what to do here, Sarah. Do it one more time. Don't say hey. Her name is Sarah Jones. She is the founder of Introverted Alpha, the premier dating coaching company for introverted men. She's been featured in Business Insider, Forbes, Entrepreneur, and many more magazines. And she also has a 22 page ebook for free, which is. We'll put that in the show notes, but it's introvertedalpha.com eBook. So if you consider yourself an introverted alpha, there's a site for you. A couple things. She grew her business to $600,000 in annual revenue in just three years. That's unbelievable. And that's an online business, aka that's a profitable business. She's willing to share how she did it. She's a devoted team of seven folks working with her, and she loves working with them. And. And one other thing that you don't know about her is she loves dancing. Partner dancing specifically. And maybe we can have her dance on the show and you can watch.

Yeah.

All right, Sarah, welcome to the show.

Thanks so much. Thanks so much, Mike. Happy to be here. And before we go, I want to correct the numbers every day. Yeah. Well, just the numbers. It's been 690k lifetime. Lifetime in the last three years and 330k in the last rolling 12 months.

Oh, so it's annualized revenue. Gotcha. That's fantastic.

Yeah.

And you started off at zero in revenue.

Zero. Zero dollars and zero cents. That was the beginning.

So, first, let's define your business for our audience. What do you do exactly?

So I help guys that have been really focused on their career and they just haven't been focusing on dating. They just figured it would just happen one day and. And they might be a little more reserved by nature. And all of a sudden they're in their mid-20s or mid-30s or mid-40s, and they're like, what do I even do? Like, I don't. How do I date? Because they just don't want to be creepy and they don't want to be pushy and a lot of that out there, and they don't want to be that guy because they have integrity because they're such good men. So I help them understand what is uniquely attractive about them as an individual and, and bring that out in a way that connects with women and makes them feel like a badass.

So interestingly, two weeks ago, by chance, we had Roger Dooley on and we were talking about the dating scene a little bit. He was, he was talking about the smiles. Remember that? He said, oh, actually, guys who don't smile will actually do better in the dating scene.

In the picture.

In the picture.

Like an online.

I mean, do you teach tips like that? Or do you hit these guys, slap these guys in the face and say, wake up. You know, don't be an introvert. Like, how do you actually.

I'm pretty sure that's not what she says.

That's not it. Yes. Stop hating yourself.

You're wrong.

Is that how you do it? Do you just scream at them or how do you do it?

That's it. It's just screaming 24 7. That's how I do it. Really well.

Insulting their face.

I actually learned early on, before I even started introverted Alpha, that I was doing dating coaching before then, and I learned that gentle and pleasant actually is the most effective for them. It actually works really well, which is wonderful because that's how I like to be. I mean, that makes me happy. Thank goodness. It works better than anything else, and it's better for them. It's like. It's just really a fun process. So as far as. As far as the smiling and the dating picture, it's really interesting. So women. Women looking at the camera and smiling is more attractive than really any other way that a woman could be in a picture. But for men, it's more attractive if they're not smiling and they're sort of maybe even looking off camera, like they're focused on something else or they're on a mission kind of thing. It's because for men, they love to see that a woman is receptive and open to them. For a woman, they love to see that a man has a strong sense of himself, confidence, purpose, outside of her. So that's just one tiny tip. Yeah.

Who knew? Sarah knew.

I know, but Sarah.

So I'm wondering, the translation into business here. If you're a male, say, author, and when you're selling to consumers, is it better? Do you think this translates also to the consumer market? That maybe I shouldn't be smiling these big smiles, and maybe it should be more of a.

No, no. You be just how you are. I love how you are, Mike, first of all. Second of all, it's not the same. And because with online dating, it's about attraction and sexual attraction between two people, whereas business, it's just different. So actually, if you're smiling because you're smiling, that helps you be more approachable, whether you're a man or a woman in business.

Boom. Okay, so it's funny. We did a split test on my site a while ago, so I found out that the majority of my readers are actually female, which is a little bit atypical in this space. So then we ran tests, and There was a test of me holding maybe. I told you all about this. I was holding my book and they photoshopped out my wedding ring. This is. You don't have to roll your eyes because he's like, disgusting.

Let him finish. Yeah, let me finish.

I mean, jump down my throat. Fucking diddles or something. So Sarah, they photoshop out my photo ring and say that may be more attractive to get more readers, more signups, interestingly in Sarah. But you know the answer. What do you think Got more sign ups from female readers with a ring or without a ring? I would think with, you know, your shit. That's exactly right. With a ring. I was shocked.

Yeah. Yeah. Because look, you know, he's. He's stable, he's reliable, he's a good man. Another woman shows him, you know.

Yes.

Like social.

He's not creepy.

Yeah, exactly. He's not gonna be hitting on us.

He looks like a pervert.

Freddy's not that much of a perverting. Makes us relax.

Yeah. So that was a huge insight for me. I want to gain the insights from growing your business. I understand what you do. The question is how you make money doing it. Now, I know you're an advocate for multiple revenue streams. Could you tell me the revenue streams you have and how you add new ones?

Yes. Well, here's the thing. I actually only had one for a long time until extremely recently. Now I have 13. Well, oh, my gosh. Yeah, a lot. And here's how it works. So I was really focused on making sure that every time that somebody paid me money, they were going to get the result that they paid me money to get. And that sounds reasonable enough. But sometimes I feel like in the online business space, when people are selling things that can help other people, sometimes it's like, okay, here's the information. Now it's up to you to use it. And the thing with my guys is that there's so much dating advice out there that that's how it's often packaged is like, here's the info. Go use it. And if they pay money for that and then they end up trying to use it, like, and they can't make themselves do it because remember, they're already really reserved by nature, so they can't do it then. Now they're worse off than when they were. They feel shameful about having spent the money and not being able to make anything out of it. So I did not want to be adding to that problem because I really do care about them and I want their life to be better. So if that package isn't going to work for them, then I didn't want to sell it. That was pretty monumental because that's how most everybody makes money. It's like a really big rite of passage to go from service based to product based. It's a huge rite of passage that I actually made because when I started I was doing one on one coaching only because that's all I really knew how to do. I hadn't made a system yet. I was making my system through the process of coaching and, and I did that for a year or so prior to Introverted Alpha and then the first year of the business, that's what I was doing. And then I transitioned into information with a light optional support component. Not knowing this thing yet that I just told you guys about how they just have the info, it's not really going to work for them. I just thought, well, hey, if they have all the info laid out, that's going to be great. So I sold that for about nine months and it sold well and worked well and it was the same price as coaching but now it didn't have any delivery cost of my time.

So.

So that's like the dream, right? But then I was looking at the sales, at the numbers and it was this moment I'd always dreamed of where I'm seeing these numbers, I'm seeing this number of clients who bought this that I should be so happy. But in fact I felt really bad because I didn't even know who these guys were and I knew that most of them probably were not using it and feeling worse than they did before they got it. And I just couldn't stand for that. It just made my stomach turn, makes my stomach turn right now just talking about it. So I was like, okay, can't do that anymore. But I also don't want to go back to coaching myself because I'm still wanting to make progress and that's absolutely not how I'm going to grow eventually one day, multimillion dollar business. That's not how that's going to happen. I hired coaches, hired one and then another to help me run a group program. So I was still very involved. But I was training this coach and then eventually another coach to help me run this group program. And the idea was we would transition into just the two of them running it without me. And we did that for about a year, about nine to 10 months into early this year and then we switched into actually just one on one coaching because we kept paying attention that on the sales calls they would say the two biggest complaints were, I don't really want to do this in a group. It's too personal. Like I would feel uneasy about that. Number two, these times don't work for me. You have these group calls and I can't make one or both of the calls. And we'd be like, oh, you can listen to the recording. Oh, you guys are all in this together, whatever. But it's like, why are we doing that? Why not just give them what they want? They want to have one on one calls that they schedule around their convenience. And our coaches, convenience, perfect. So we switched into that early this year where they're doing one on one coaching with my coaches, not with me. It's been very exciting. And so then we also raised the price this summer from 5,000 to 7,000. But then it kind of again, a whole nother thing because I was getting emails from guys that's like, I love what you do. I wish so much that I could join. I will save up for one day five years from now when I can afford that income.

I can finally have a date five years from now.

And so then I was feeling bad, like, oh no. Now I've just kind of painted myself into a corner where only guys that were like, money is literally not an issue, can afford the program, which at this point the success rate is just extreme. It's so good. It works so well. So I started brainstorming with my team, like, how can we help more guys? And the beauty of what happened was it ended up supporting the business too, because now we have multiple streams and it all just like exploded into this colorful, beautiful explosion literally in the past two to three weeks. So I'm really glad we're recording this right now because this has just happened. So what it is is we now have three different ways for them to work with us. So we kept the one at 7K, which is 12 weeks and 12 coaching calls. And those 12 modules of material, we kept that. But then we have underneath it bi Weekly calls for 5,400 or just monthly calls for 3,800. Much more affordable. And 3,800 is around the range of what we started with in terms of our pricing. In the beginning, it's always comfortable for guys to be able to do that. Not always, but, you know, enough. Enough for it to be working well. So we have those three pricing structures. And the reason why it's multiplied is because now we used to just have the dating program only where it's like, learn what is sexually attractive about you. And feel really good in your own skin. Present really well. Make sure that you're, you know, looking just as good as you feel and feel really good. All that stuff is the first month, then meet and connect with great women and then get numbers and go on dates. Well, what I realized was that actually they needed a whole lot more than that, rather than that being the whole picture. It's actually a tiny part of the picture. And I've been working on an advanced program that had three main sections, and I ended up splitting it out into three entirely different programs, the exact same size as the original program and into four different tracks. So track one is become a benevolent badass, which is a phrase that I've always used and that we all love. And it's just confidence building. And I'm actually launching that right now. And then track two is the dating one, where you learn how to get dates with great women. And then track three is dating and playing more about being a great lover and managing multiple women that you're seeing at the same time or choosing a partner.

Jeez, very benevolent.

And then the fourth one is about building a really great relationship. Relationship and things to think about before and during that process. This is a really, really exciting time. So they can do any of the pricing options with any of the four tracks. They can continue on and do all four tracks or any combination that they want. And we also have an option for a custom track. Once somebody's done a normal one with us, we can make a custom one for them.

I want to know, how do you sell this to someone who you mentioned that it's very personal or maybe there's some embarrassment associated with it. How do you sell a product or a service to someone where it is they have to face kind of an embarrassment or challenge like this? I assume it's different than a standard sale.

Yeah. Such a great question. I've been thinking about this a lot, I guess this entire time I've had the business. But, you know, I'm always learning new things. And one thing I've been really keen on from the beginning is to make sure that I am respectful to them as they are right now, and that I'm also calling to their vision for their own selves and helping them expand what they could be both at the same time. So that's something that I've always been present to and enjoy doing. And so that's how we relate to them. And then recently, it's so interesting how personal development is so tied in with business development, because the more I Grow. The better I'm able to be for them, the better I'm able to write for them and all of that. And I realized about a month ago that in my sales emails, I'd been, this is just really yuck. I'm still getting used to it, like, this concept, but very proud to be moving past it. What I was doing was kind of coddling them, like, oh, it's okay, you know, you can do it. Come on. Don't you want to change this? You know, I know you can do it, you know, come on, have some courage. And it wasn't. It wasn't. I see it now as like, standing on opposite sides of a fence, and the fence is them joining the program. I was coming over onto their side of the fence and trying to help them over the fence, which is disrespectful to both of us. What I'm doing now is I'm on my side, they're on their side. And I'm just speaking very clearly, very openly. I'm not even using any, like, sales techniques or anything. I'm just talking with them and showing them what this is. And talking. Rather than talking about avoiding the pain, which is what I had been doing before, avoiding the pain and stopping the pain, I'm talking about the future, the possibilities, what they can be. And it's way more fun for me to write, oh, my God, so much more fun. And they're connecting with it. And we've been getting all these applications because we're in the middle of a launch right now, so they apply to talk to us, and we've been getting just the best applications. These guys are just so good, so calm, so detailed with their answers, such a good vibe, because that's how I'm talking to them now. So anyway, that's how I do it with such a sensitive topic. And I'm always learning and getting better at it.

So, you know, the old sales mentality is find the wound, open the wound further, pour salt on it, pour acid in it, and then say, I can fix that. That is the old sales approach.

That's right.

It is awful. But I'm saying that's what it is. Like, everyone's been. Everyone's been taught. Taught that. And I'm hearing the exact opposite. Sarah, is it just in a market like this where it's a very personal sale, or do you think that's true for all business? Business markets?

You know, I would love for it to be true for all business markets. And if I think about the future, at least what I would like the future to be is that's where it will go. And I honestly really do think that. Because if you look at old ads from several decades ago or I don't actually know all my ad history, but you know, you look at some old ads and it's like, you know, you idiot.

You got sand kicked in your face, you weakling. Right, right.

We're like less assholes than that. Right? Like even like the poor salt in the wound, I mean, may not be as direct as that. I mean that was just direct. People got more savvy. Well, I think the next level of savviness is, you know what? Actually I just really need for you to respect me right now because I respect myself and I respond well to people who respect me because it calls out the self respect in me and that's the direction I want to go because I'm meant to self actualize. That's my path as a being, as a human. So I'm going to resonate with the ones that respect themselves and respect me. I, I really hope that that's where the future is going and that's where my future is going, regardless of anything else. But I hope that it's where everybody's future is going.

Well, one thing that's very clear to me is you are so on the rule or the value of being benevolent and good. And I don't know much about dating systems, though I do remember in info marketing a lot of people would talk about the dating systems, were they called it peacocking? I remember the big term like where guys. Have you heard of this term, Sarah?

Mm.

Yeah. So everyone's rolling their eyes. You guys gotta hear this. So what they tell you is basically dress outrageous, be outrageous. The peacock, right? And that when you walk into a bar that this is attractive to women. And all this was to take advantage. Not for two people to meet and to benefit together. It was for the guy to be in a dominant position and actually control people. And it sounds like that's the mentality throughout many kind of sales organizations or anything. But you sound so contrary to it. You sound like there's actually a good person in this field. Thank God. Thank God. Is it hard to go against? First of all, does that stuff still exist and is it hard to go against that? Granding.

That's why I made introverted Alphas, because I absolutely hate that. And I knew that there are many guys that do. And when I was starting the business, it was just the babiest baby. It wasn't even anything. And I was telling someone who'd had a business for years in a similar space. And I told him, you know what? I'm going to inspire these guys to rise to the occasion. I'm going to help them draw out their best as a way to connect with women. And he's like, you know what? I really wish that worked, but it doesn't. I've tried it, my friends have tried it. And at the end of the day, oh, it makes me so angry. At the end of the day, all men want is easy sex. That's all they want. So you have to appeal to their base nature. And so I'm like, what in this world is this? And so obviously I completely disagree with that. And my business proves that that's not true because it's working. And I get guys that email me, thank you for respecting me and not thinking I'm a piece of trash just because I'm a man that like, I want to dominate and, like, all I want is sex. Like, you know, they're like, thank God that you see, I get these emails every day, like, thank you for saying that just because I don't want just like easy sex with a woman that I'm not even attracted to doesn't mean that I'm not a man. Because I tell them that, you know, because other people say that that makes you not a man. But I say that means that you are smart, you have integrity, you're genuine, you want a connection. And you can have a connection and have a really great time for one night if you're out of town or something, you know, like, whatever. It's not that you can't have a fun time and relax, but the point is that you're connected and that you feel really good and that you're respecting yourself. You're respecting her, she's respecting herself, she's respecting you. So with the whole peacocking thing and all that, it's just such a lack of respect. It's obviously a lack of respect towards the women, obviously. But it's also a lack of respect towards the men because they're more than that. They're more than that.

Yeah, I totally agree. And I think you position the man in that kind of scenario just to continue in this very surface level thing. Maybe some guys that feel that way in the moment, but they need to explore the deeper truth in them. I don't know. What about getting back to the finances? I know you were able to double your site traffic. And I mean, everyone listening to show if there's a way to Profitability, it's getting more people interested in what you have going on. But you brought your site from, like, I think it was 12,000, 13,000 visitors a month. Upwards of like 25,000 visitors a month.

Yeah.

What's the secret? What's the secret there, by the way? Roger Dooley would say put women in bikinis. Right? That's what Roger Dooley would say. Our last guest. But what'd you do?

Well, this is very exciting. So you know how I was saying earlier, gentle and pleasant is the most effective. Thank goodness. Respecting them and being positive works. Thank goodness. It's always like these new thank goodnesses around what is traditional advice versus what I decide for myself actually feels good. And thank goodness it works. So that's how we double the traffic. What was happening was I was just writing blog posts. Like, yeah, yeah, you know, here's one. And they were all like, B level blog posts. They were not outstanding. And then I went back in. How was I? Oh, I know, because I hired an SEO firm. They did a terrible job. They made our traffic go down for the first time ever. It made me so mad. Oh, my gosh.

How much did that cost? Meanwhile?

$8,000. Meanwhile, they can be amazing. Meanwhile, they think. I swear they think they did a great job. It really. It really is way too much. Made me so angry. Okay, so then what I did is I got in there, I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna go learn from Rand Fishkin, who I love moz.com I'm just gonna get my hands dirty and learn this stuff and undo all of the bullshit that the firm did so that I can get us back where we were and ideally, higher than that. So as I was learning and researching, I was just looking at what he was saying about quality and excellence. And because the Internet is so saturated with so many people and it's only exponentially becoming, that it's really important to actually be better. Not to give the appearance of better with a catchy headline, but to actually deliver on better and 10x better than anyone else. And that really spoke to why I made the business in the first place. Because I wanted to be so much of a better option than any of the other things out there. But that should go to every single piece of my content. So here's what I did. And this is super implementable. Like, everybody listening, oh, my God, let's all double our traffic together. This is what I did. So I had about 100 blog posts, and I went through them all. I made a spreadsheet I went through all of them and I analyzed them objectively, like, which ones are good, which ones are not good. And I also noticed that there was a lot of articles around the same topic and it was just kind of sloppy and messy. Like, why not just make one standout piece that's really good, that is better than any of those individual blog posts and really answers the question that the person's searching for. So that's what I did. I took, let's say, six articles that weren't good, that were kind of good, kind of good, but not that good. And I took the good parts from them and, and put it into a new big article and also filled out the new big article with a bunch more great stuff. And then I deleted and redirected all the mediocre and all of the pretty good but not that good posts on that topic to that blog post to the new one that's sort of like an ultimate guide type thing. I'm not really using that word because it's just used a lot, but it's sort of like that. It's several thousand words. And it's just this really great post. So I made, I think, like six of those. And so right now, our posts, we have less than half the posts that we had already on the site. And I also interlinked between the posts to point to those really good big ones and then from within the big ones to each other. There's a lot of great resources on moz.com about how to properly interlink your site. So I did that. Those are the only two things I did. Those are the only two things I did. And Google saw my site as so much more quality because now the percentage of material on my site that was really good is like most all of it. I'm still working on it, but it's so good now compared to if you have a blog post that gets like five visitors and it's also not good and people leave right when they get there, Google's going to notice that and it's going to bring down the whole vibe of your site in Google's eyes and in reality, because Google's getting smarter all the time. So if you make your site really good by combining those posts into a mega post, and then of course, you have a gift at the end, so they can opt in, they can download the post as a PDF, which is a new popular thing people are doing. We're trying it out. It's kind of nice. Or if you have an ebook or something like that, that way people Read it, they love it. And then you give them that step to engage further.

Wow, that is genius. So just digging a little further into that, I thought maybe this is an old school mentality, it was about quantity, that Google wanted to see a new post going up every day that you were active. What I'm hearing is maybe that's not the case anymore.

That's not the case anymore. It's changed and it's just changing in that positive direction. Just like what we were talking about before, right? Like the old ads versus the way things are going. This is the way things are going and it really is about quality. And it makes sense because Google wants to maintain their reputation. If they're sending people to shitty sites, then they can't do that. So it's like everybody rises together and if we can be at the front end of that, all the better.

And when you do these mega posts, what if it's five years old? I mean, do you believe. I know you're just new to this, but do you think a post could sustain the test of time?

Absolutely. Absolutely it can. In fact, we have a couple on our site that get just super most of the traffic on the site and they're not new. But what you can do, this is just another little technique, is if you update a post and you fill it out a lot with even more great stuff, you can put a little note at the bottom that you did that just for people's reference. And you can also refresh the date to today when you republished it. And that's good because Google does like freshness, but it's really so much more about quality than quantity. To the point that I'm just really focusing on taking what we have and making it so much better. And just by republishing old posts, that is new. You know, it is new because I've made it better. And so now the overall quality is better and Google appreciates that.

I'll be. Here's a strange question for you, but I know psychologists fall into this trap sometimes and I wonder if your business does. The psychologist, where they're seeing a patient and all of a sudden the relationship shifts where the patient is actually addicted to the training itself or the experience with the psychologist. Do you ever have the clients get coached by you or your staff and then the client tries to build a relationship with the coach? Because now they're not so introverted and now you've been coaching them through it. Do they try to hit on you?

No, actually. Thank God. But we do sometimes become friends because we want to. We both want to.

So it was awkward. I was trying to ask you out.

It's a really.

You made it awkward.

I made it awkward. You think that would happen, though? But when that. Are your coaches male? Are they female?

Female. And they don't really necessarily become friends with my coach. Well, one of my coaches and one of our clients who I met at an event, at a business event we were both at, and we were just cracking up, and they crack up all the time. And then the three of us, it's just really. He is so much fun, and it's just, like, way too much fun. So I think that they'll keep in touch after that they finish. So they're keeping it just perfect. This is the coaching. But then when he's done with the coaching, I'm sure that they'll text each other and just make each other laugh and have a great time. And for me, that's great. It doesn't always happen. Most of the time, it doesn't. That's just not the vibe that is there. But when it is, great. New friends. Perfect.

Do customers ever go into inappropriate categories? I mean, you're. You're teaching people how to take that first step as they try to learn about step three and four, or does it ever go into the inappropriate area in business like this, like.

Like, with them towards my coaches or me?

Yeah, your coach is saying, you know. You know. Yeah. Not.

Not.

Not how. They're just. The questions they're asking.

Dependent.

Yeah. I don't even know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, no, because we. We filter so hard. We filter so hard.

All right.

It is only really, really great guys that, like, they're so good that you don't even know that there's. It's like, how are there so many guys like that? They're really good. Because the whole process, like, everything on my site, it speaks only to them. Because Mike. And I'm so happy to be talking to you about this because you've influenced me so much with profit first and with the pumpkin plan. Oh, my God. I just, like, thank you in my heart every day. Oh, my God, you're awesome.

Thank you.

So with the pumpkin plan and those top 10% of clients, I took that really seriously. I read it initially back in February, and then I read it again recently, and I just really was like, okay, I'm really gonna super focus on these top guys and really make sure that I only communicate with them. And that was in my mind as I made all these side updates. As well. So. Because I'm only focused on that top part. And also in the book, Mike, you said that with one of your companies that you had such great clients that it was like a mutual admiration party. I'm like, oh my God, that's what our life is like every day. These are. That is exactly what this is like. It already is like that. It's amazing.

So. And have you ever had a fire clients, meaning you find not a fit.

I have.

Yeah. It's not like they're. They're not all. They're not 100%. But we're going, we're trending in that direction. We're trending towards 100. But there's been some, you know, there's been, you know, there's one that came that I worked with before my business and he had some psychological issues, which I learned from a few experiences that I'm not qualified to work with that nor do I enjoy it. That's not my specialty at all. And that was a very not fun situation. And I fired him. But after that, there's been. Usually they kind of disqualify themselves. They come in kind of negative and we're like, this is what I mean by coddling and how we're not doing that anymore. Because let's say one guy in particular wanted to join last summer. He was like, yeah, whatever. I've just been learning all this pickup stuff, but maybe I can learn from you too. So he was already in the pickup world a little bit anyway, but he didn't like it. But he kind of had that really aggressive vibe compared to our normal guys. And he was like, yeah, but I really need. And we're like, oh my God, you need this. Just sign up. More aggressive than we usually. Not aggressive, but more than we usually are. Of just long back and forth emails with him, like, I know you can do it, come on, blah, blah, blah. Which now he learned if we have to do that, they're not going to be a good client. We never do that anymore. We never, ever, ever try too hard ever anymore. So anyway, he got in. He's like, yeah, you know, I don't know, this is just. Isn't really right for me. And blah, blah, blah. And he just kept on complaining. It's like, you know what? I'm going to refund you. No problem. There you go. Done.

That is the way to handle it. Thank you. Sarah. This has been amazing. What a journey, what a great business. And I really want to celebrate you for being benevolent, meaning to help good guys do Good things. The world needs more of you, so thank you.

Thank you so much. I had so much fun too.

Where can people learn more about introverted Alpha and all the stuff you're doing?

Yeah, you can go.

I know you got a special gift too, by the way, so I want to hear that.

Yeah, yeah, you can go to my site and there's an ebook in the menu bar, so. And then that's how we can stay in touch, just through my site.

Cool. All right, Sarah, thanks for joining us for the show.

Thank you so much. Sarah.

In a second, we're gonna first punch me. Thank you. Did you just do a head twist? I love that. I love that she turns her head to the side like she took a punch. So first we're gonna talk about some stuff and our sponsors, we're gonna recap what we learned. But first, I have a recording. I don't know if you guys know this. When we booked Sarah, I said I'm going to give them a call. They do have one male coach, by the way. It's all women. I got the male coach. I pretended to be an introverted alpha and I said, there's this woman I want to ask out for a date and I'm really nervous and I know it's my first session. I was five minutes into session.

I said, only imagine what he said.

I said, what do I do? Should I ask her out? And this is his coddling response.

Do it.

Just do it.

Yesterday you said, I could never have imagined that.

Just do it. Make your dreams come true. Yeah. Nothing is impossible. No. What are you waiting for? Do it. Just do it. What about tomorrow? Yes, you can. So that was. That was my coaching.

What about tomorrow?

That was my coaching call with Sarah's team. And the irony is I got the date. It was with my wife. I was just asking my wife out for dinner. All right, that was horrible. All right, where's our. What do we do now? Oh, yeah. Okay, so. Okay, even better. Punch me one more time, would you? Okay. So I want to thank the two that we know are corporate supporters of ours. Nextiva. They've been around since the beginning of time. Beginning of our show. Yeah. Day one. They've never backed off. They just bought 200 copies of profit first yesterday. Right. They're incredible. They said we have to get the word out on Profit First.

Yes.

That's what kind of company they are. They are really cared about. They really care about their customers now. Their system is a. Oh. Even more good news about them is a voice over IP phone System dude, read this text right here from Yaniv. That's you. Yeah. Read into the microphone.

Okay. Do you want to be the first business user of next os? We would walk you through everything and make sure it's smooth. It cuts off, so.

Oh, it gets cut off.

Well, I don't want to go into your phone.

Oh, yeah, yeah. So the next os, they have developed software that ties in to your phone system. So when you pick up the phone, the CRM comes up and it tells you who you're talking to, all their details. It tracks. It records automatically.

Wow.

You know, we use Zoho.

Yeah.

It is like Zoho on steroids.

That's awesome.

Yeah. And he said, do we want to be the first users? Yeah.

Look at you, fancy pants.

Yeah. Well, fancy pants here went over Ron, like, dude, first user, he's like, oh, that means we have to get all the bugs out of it. I'm like, thanks, Mr. Negativity. Ron's my. My nemesis. But I love him.

He's your balanced counterpart.

I love him. Yeah.

Also, receipt bank.

Receipt bank. You know what you. Did I show you the text I got from receipt bank?

No.

I mean, this is unbelievable.

Do you have a button for it?

No, I'm trying to pull it up. All right. It's just that bottom line right there.

Okay. We cool, boss.

Yeah. Isn't that great? We cool, question mark, Boss. No, it's we cool, comma, boss, question mark. Yeah, we cool. I like that receipt bank. What I love about their communication is it's short and concise, just like your software. It just takes care of the facizzle you need done. Is that the right use of.

Yes.

Okay. I have a lot of feces going on, and I see that feces and ild and they do a lot of.

Things on your diddle.

I do have a lot of fizzle, my dill. So if you have receipts, use receipt bank. It gets it right in. We cool, boss. Okay. Fat daddy, fat back. I love that. What'd you learn today?

Who wants to go deliver on better? Don't just look better, actually be better. Plain and simple.

Just deliver them better.

Yeah, Daddy fetback.

What'd you get?

My biggest takeaway was Sarah herself and her ability to, you know, be in tune with who she is, what feels right for her.

Yes.

And to follow through with her business even when, you know, she'll take a step and then realize it doesn't feel right and realign. And I love that. And it's so hard to do. Like, I feel for Myself in my own business, I'll do the same thing where I want to do something and then I think, oh, I don't really think that's smart. All these people are doing this thing and they're successful and doing well with that, you know, but she's doing it, and she's doing it well and successfully.

Yep. So I have a doctor's hands writing doctor's handwriting. So I want you to see if you can figure out the note. This is the big star I put next to it because it's totally in tune with what you just said at the top.

Sarah.

What does it say next?

Don't act turn good person.

That's my notes. It's like. It's like Tarzan wrote my notes. Sarah, stomach turn, good person. So those are arrows. Sarah said. I was talking about something. She goes, you know, that made my stomach turn.

Yeah.

And I won't do that. And that's. Then my arrow goes, she's a good person. My point is exactly what you're saying. She is so in tuned with her emotions and her feelings that when something makes her stomach turn, she's like, that. That's not the path I'm gonna follow. Even though it's quote unquote successful. And she challenges the successful standards and comes up with something that's more successful.

I agree. And I feel like it. Like, she stresses it. It progresses the entire industry and as a society to move forward and to, you know, change the way we do things in a better way.

It does. I love when good people win. And it seems like it doesn't happen enough, but. But can I put that. Can I drop this mic? I think it's happening more often. Yeah, finally.

It's.

Finally.

Here's the example. Sarah Jones. Example. You ever watched Tim Gunn, the fashion guy on tv?

No, I have no idea who that is.

Tim Gunn.

No.

Sarah, you still with us?

Yeah, I'm here.

Do you know Tim Gunn is.

I don't.

Oh, my God. Is everyone here, like, under. Is everyone here under 40 years old? So Tim Gunn is like the fashion guy. He had, like, don't wear that dress or something guy.

Yeah, other than. Yes.

He's. He's. I think he's maybe not that guy. He's like in his 50s or 60s, very well dressed. He talks to the lisp. His name is Tim Gunn.

Yeah.

And he's like, that just doesn't. That doesn't work. But maybe it works for you. But here's my sticker. Like, he's so gentle with people, but he still speaks the truth.

Yes.

And guides them where they need to be. I think benevolent. And so I love this guy. And I met him once. I think I. And that's why I think benevolent people are starting to win. And I think Sarah Jones is an example of that.

I agree. And I love when you have an example of that, because it paves the way for other people to do the same thing. It's inspiring.

Yeah. I love Sarah. Until she didn't know who Tim Gun was. Now, like, I don't know this is working anymore.

That's not very benevolent.

It was. Now. I'm not saying I'm benevolent. I'm saying she is.

Wait, I thought you were the most caring person in the world.

I am. I won that award. I won that award. Just don't hurt my feelings now. I did win it. All right, that's top takeaways. We thanked our corporate partners. I think we gotta get rock and roll out of here, right?

Christine, leave us your comments, your ratings on any podcast you're using, and of course, mosey on over toProfit first podcast dot com. And.

Yeah, and. And, well, I'm trying to use the word benevolent. We have a very benevolent corporation. And I do mean that. Yeah, I really do mean that. We. We have good members. We have an amazing team of people here, and we really, really care about you. How do we care about you? Because we. We believe. We know profitability is the most important part of your business. And it's the most kind of hushed or pushed aside or. Let's just wait till the year end and see how you did this year. Oh, sorry, you weren't profitable. Maybe next year it gets kicked down the road. Well, we're bringing to the forefront. We believe profit is the most important part of your business. That we're not saying to, you know, blunder and to blunder. Pillage. What do you mean? What's the word? Rampage. Blunder. No, it's not blunder. Plunder. Plunder. Thanks, Plunder and the Village. Whatever. We're not saying that. We are saying you have to care for your clients. But if you don't care for your bottom line, you can't continue to care for your clients. Therefore, you must be profitable. Just like Sarah's business. Your business needs to do the same. We'll show you how. Here's how you do it. Go to profitfirstprofessionals.com Step 1. Step 2. Fill out the form there. It's a little form so we can learn more information about you and make an introduction for you to the best suited Profit First Professional. Professional. These are members throughout the country who specialize in different verticals, different industries like yours that can drive profitability in your business using the Profit first method. So that's all you got to do. Do it now. Go toProfit First Professionals.com. click on the Find button, fill out the form. We'll take care of the rest. All right? Yeah, we're good. We good. Ruby 10, anything you have to say, Daddy? Fat back. That's right. Let's get out of here.

Sam.