Episode 203: Using Systems to Rein in Profit with Marina Darlow

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Can you see my shirt?

Can you see it?

Natural redhead.

So, Kelsey, I should have known.

Just for our listeners. What do you see? Explain this.

So what I'm seeing is a blue shirt. It says natural redhead and there's a picture of Ronald McDonald. But guess what he's wearing. He's wearing one of those little. What are those?

It's a banana.

Some nice cubic hair coming out.

Bright red. Yeah, hair everywhere.

Is this the worst shirt ever?

It is. I. I just gag.

It's actually really creepy that his body's white.

It is the creepiest shirt.

Nipples are red.

When I. When I saw Ryan, I can't.

I actually can't look.

Ryan's. I'd be looking when I bought this shirt. I bought it specifically with you in mind.

Well, I appreciate that this. I'm walking out now.

Yeah.

Our three minutes of banter over.

I know, I know. Weren't you a fan of Ronald McDonald growing up?

I did like Ronald McDonald. Who didn't like Ronald McDonald? You know?

Yeah. As a kid.

Yeah. McDonald's. Of course.

Yeah. I love Ronald McDonald. I loved him. He was a little creepy. Did you notice he changed over time? You ever see.

Yeah, well, you know who he was. Okay, little pop quiz. Who was the first person who played Ronald McDonald on TV?

Oh, it was the Maytag guy. Was it?

No, it was the. I should actually know the answer when I ask a quiz. No, it was. It was Willard something. The. The weatherman.

Oh, Willard Scott.

Yes. Thank you. Thank you very much. Slow clap. I like. Yes, he played Ronald McDonald and. But I was more.

And then I relegated him to weather.

I was. I like the Hamburglar.

Really?

Yeah. The Hamburg burglar was the. The guy who would steal all the burgers and I.

And he had that little mass right.

There, right across the eyes.

The jailer suit. I didn't. I didn't like him about. I didn't like that he was stealing hamburgers.

Like, he much prefers creepy clowns with pubic hair showing.

Yes. He likes Firebush. He's a big fan of the Firebush.

Yeah, I know. He just. I didn't like him. And what was the big Oscar? What was the big purple thing that.

Looked like a big petal? The. Not hamburger. I just said hamburger five times. I'm thinking, like, I know exactly who he is. The big.

What did he.

I want to call him like stegosaurus, but that's a dinosaur.

He was like. He was like, what was the. The dinosaur that was purple for Barney. He was like, barney gone bad.

Yes.

He's like, Barney lost the whole plot and just started living at McDonald's. And he got that bell shaped body.

Yes. What was his name? See, if this was live, we can give away Ronald McDonald T shirt to the first person who calls in.

We should give away this T shirt.

Grimace.

Grimace.

Grimace.

Nailed it.

I don't know where that just came from. And you guys see, I don't even. I don't actually have a phone. I'm not looking up the answer. It just came out of nowhere.

You have nothing in front of you.

That's wild.

All right, we gotta kick things off.

Okay, everybody, welcome to the Profit first podcast.

This is the episode with our brand new host, Ryan Lee. Hey, yeah, here we go.

Co host Kelsey Ayers with the other co host of the co host.

Yeah, that's me. I'm the coast of the co host now. I've been delegated.

Michael, get me water.

Right. I feel like Willard Scott now. You can't be roll at McDonald anymore. We're gonna put you on a weather show.

You're the standard for Grimace, everyone.

You can find us on itunes, Stitcher, Tunein Radio, Google Play, profitfirstpodcast.com and any podcaster anywhere.

Yeah, and listen, if your preference is books, you can pick up some books. My name is Mike Michalowicz. I'm the author of Profit first, hence the name of the show. And a brand new book that's out there now, or should be. It depends when we release this called Clockwork and the Pumpkin Plants and other books too. And in studio today, you know, we said we want a host for a show, but the one thing I didn't want was someone that volunteered to be a host. So we said this on our show. We said we don't want people. I can't tell how many people have asked to be a host on our show.

Really?

Yeah. I'm getting emails saying, oh, I should be a host. I'm like, this is the one thing I didn't ask. If you asked, I would have still made you do it.

I don't, because I. I didn't ask, did I?

Dude, I texted you like 15 times, like, would you host the show? Are you around? And you're like, no receipt. He ghosted me.

I just kept replying, unsubscribe. It didn't work. It kept sending. If people only saw your text message. When I'm looking to laugh, I just send Mike a text and I, whatever, reply back.

Just so inappropriate. So let's talk about texting real quick. How are you a big time texter? What's your main form of communication?

I'm really not. I'm more of an email guy. The text. I find it hard to text on the phone. It's like my, you know, because I have very muscular fingers. I just, I break my screen every time I text and it's just I. I break two to three a day.

They're deceivingly not much muscular looking.

It's. It's very.

You don't have meaty hands, actually. You have actually very nice hands.

Well, my, my hands are actually. Since I've lost some weight, like, they. They're normal sized hands now.

That's nice. I saw you demonstrate by taking your wedding ring.

Because last year my fit. You know, when you, when you're heavier, you're. I knew I was gaining weight with my ring when it was really tight. It was like circulation. Now it actually is a normal human being.

Your fingers are taking the grimace shape. It was kind of that bell.

Yeah, I know. It was very grimacey, but I. Texting. I don't love texting.

I don't love texting either.

You're not a texter. How do you communicate, Kelsey?

I. I would say, I guess email is most effective because I like to take my time with things and I feel like texting you have to respond right away. I have a feeling expectation that you need to respond. Right.

You feel pressure and then especially when you get that little. You send it and there's a little word delivered.

Oh, I got.

Now I got to act like I didn't see it. You're a big text, so.

Yeah, well, I, Yeah, I use it because it's so convenient quick and I like to respond quickly and just get done.

Yeah.

The thing is it happened with Todd Herman. He texted me out of nowhere. He says, I love you, bro. Just, this was like, yesterday. I haven't talked to him in three months. So I wrote back something totally inappropriate, right? And there's silence. Now I haven't heard.

Now I'm like, that is awkward.

Did I offend him? Yeah, I think I offended him.

You probably did. Now you can't.

I said something so inappropriate. Dude, it was so.

It was so, like, he's probably shocked. And what if it wasn't actually? What if it was someone else?

That's not Todd or. It wasn't supposed to be for you.

Right? That's what I think. I think he was texting his wife or bro or his girlfriend. You don't call you. You call your spouse bro. He's like, I love you, bro. That's why I say to my wife, I love you, bro.

Love you, bro.

She's like, yeah.

It's endearing, you lot.

Your rings. You were shaking your hand. This was in the huddle a couple days ago. And your ring went flying off.

I know.

You try to step on it? No.

And it just kept rolling.

Why is that like a calamity? Are you losing weight or something?

Futzing with it. I was playing with it when I should have been paying attention. That's the universe.

So, Ryan, you missed this today in our daily huddle. I got on film. We have at the end of our huddle, whoever got the most shout outs from another person here, colleague. You get a prize. We have different prizes. Then you spin this big spinner. But sometimes there's a tie, so there has to be a tiebreaker, which is usually like 21 fingers or rock, paper, scissors. Today it was arm wrestling. And Kelsey took on Mike.

Yeah.

Another mic here. Almost beat him. She had him at a stand.

I could teach you the arm wrestling.

Oh, yeah.

I've never lost.

That'd be great.

You've never lost?

That's my thing. Oh, I take it on in your office.

Let's do it.

Mike Scalise.

Let's do it.

It's Mike. Pretty good.

No.

He's got very short arms.

Really?

Almost beat him.

All right.

She literally had the leverage over him. Like, her hand was up here. His hand was down here. It was.

All you need to do is T. Rex arms, you know, but you know the greatest arm wrestling movie of all time? No.

I don't know.

Over the top Stallone. Well, it's probably the only arm wrestling movie, but. Is there?

I had no idea.

There was when he had the truck, when he was driving the truck, the rig, and he had it all set up where he's doing the. The arm poles with the greatest movie.

You'Ve never seen over the top.

I really have never even heard of it.

I dare.

And I feel like, I think in one of the.

The pivotal scene, someone's arm breaks.

I think the arm like broken half at one point.

Yeah.

But he would, he would. He had a baseball hat and he'd turn it backwards.

That's when he was going to win. That's when he's going to win.

Game over.

That's how he start. He'd sit down, he'd pick it up and to be staring at this opponent, pop it down.

Yeah. By the way, when you just did that, I sold a little bicep.

Oh, dude, look at it. I've been working out.

Nice.

Yeah, I've been. I want to eat your biceps first. I want to eat your. Those bars you're making the rewind.

The rewind super.

Did you bring any?

I did not. We have the. The first shipment is coming in about four weeks.

Okay.

Yeah. We're only four months.

Any product?

Huh? What are they?

They are the world's first Superbar. I don't want to talk too much about it. I want to get to the guests. I don't want to make this about me too much, but if we want to talk about me.

We got 20 more seconds.

So I created this bar based on just my own health. And I created the world's first Superb, where it's protein, it's greens, it's fruit, high fiber, no artificial sweeteners, gluten free and vegan, and it tastes amazing.

It's the world's first bar. So Superb's first Superb.

Superb.

And what's the difference between a bar and Superbar?

You have to ask if you have to ask. And it tastes like a Tootsie Roll. A crunchy Tootsie Roll.

I like Tootsie Roll. Is it that same texture, a very heavy chew?

It's kind of chewy with a little bit of crunch. From the. We have organic almond butter and organic cashew butter.

Oh, I like that.

It's really good.

I was with Ryan, this is maybe a year ago. And we're just talking about your member. He runs membership organizations or he teaches people how to run a membership online membership website. And he goes, oh, I'm gonna start a Clif Bar type of competitor, but a far better alternative. You didn't say Clif Bar. I'm just adding. I did not this is my own bad. Yes, my own. Yeah. And I'm like, it's like, impossible. Like, you have to have the backing of Coca Cola. You have to have tons of.

Yeah, yeah.

He's like, no, no, I don't need that back.

Yeah.

So with his own money, too, right? You didn't get any investors or anything?

No, no, no. I'm just fronting it. Yeah. I'm not going crazy. Because you can go crazy. You could spend millions of dollars and get millions of bars. We're gonna reduce our risk, but there's definitely an investment.

It's just gonna be two bars.

It's two bars. It's a very limited run. It should sell out pretty fast.

One convenience store, one bodego, like in.

Brooklyn, just on a dirty shelf. They're like, what the hell is this? It's a rewind superbar. All right, I'll take it.

Where is it? It's behind the Ajax, next to the.

Rubber gloves, behind the expired Lucky Charms.

All right. Hey, I want to thank our corporate partners. Make this show a reality. Fundbox, Nextiva and receipt back. We. We love you. We love you a lot, and we'll talk about you in a little bit. And at the end of the show. By the way, after we interview our guests today, we're going to share the insights that we've learned and some other fun stuff. Do you have some member shout outs?

I would love to give a shout out to Helen Faulkner of the Saddle Camp. She says, my whole family thanks you from the bottom of our hearts. Your book Profit first absolutely changed our lives. And Toilet Paper Entrepreneur and Pumpkin plan have helped, too. Can't wait to read the rest. And our latest profit payout bought the bearers for the house we're building so we can move out of our commercial premises. We're all super excited. Many, many thanks from the Faulkner family.

Nice Faulkner.

Very nice. The Toilet Paper Entrepreneur and Pumpkin plan have helped, too.

I love to help, too. Right?

They were pretty good. Not bad.

It was bad. Do you remember when we had an internal who Mike asked if he read Surge, and he was like, yeah, I read it. It was okay.

You're hired. Was that Christian?

No, it was Ben.

Oh, my God. That's right, Ben. He was the best. He was my favorite. The nicest, most charismatic guy who did nothing. Her name is Marina Darlow and she is an expert in making business systems for the creative folks. You know, the adhda, ADHD type people out there. Her company's called Vision Framework, and she's all about sustainability. In other words, when your business can comfortably support your lifestyle, that's how she defines sustainability. Plus planting trees, also finding purpose in your business. Make your business meaningful, and be the first at something significant. It's been a lot of banter, Marina, but you've been waiting in the the aisle there. Thank you for joining us. Welcome to our show.

Hey.

Welcome, Marina.

Yay.

Enjoying the banter.

She left.

No, I'm right here. Can you hear me?

She fell asleep.

Hey. Telling you're down the hallway. Are you.

No, no, no. Guys, can you hear me? Hello?

Yeah. Now we got you.

Yeah. All right.

We got you.

All right.

Yay.

So let's dig into sustainability. I want to know what do you mean by. I give my definition of sustainability, but you said that businesses need to comfortably support your lifestyle. Tell me more about that.

So there is a lot of talk online about dreaming big and making it huge and building your empire, and that's great for the people who, you know, that's what. That's where they set their sights for. But I think a lot of people, all they want is to have time with their family. They do something that's meaningful for them and make a living that will allow them send their kids to college if they so desire. Never really think about money in a way that never really kind of worry about money. And in my book, that's sustainability. When you make enough to be comfortable and you don't constantly have this hunger. Who was it who talks about hunger that defines successful entrepreneurs? I don't want to.

Ryan Lee.

Don't want to name names. And it's. Again, it's great for a certain group of people, but in my experience, for most of people that I know, it leads to burnout. So I like to think sustainable and comfortable and happy rather than grand and conquering and all these, like, military terms. So that's my thing.

Well, but let's talk about. Marina. Why do people. Why is it the mentality out there to be bigger? You got to be more? There's never enough.

Hustle, hustle, grind and hustle.

Grind and hustle.

Hustle.

Rise and grind, baby.

Rise and grind. I'm grinding while you're sleeping.

Yeah.

Marina, why?

So why. Why is that the mentality that Ryan Lee.

Oh, that's a.

By the way, first of all, you know Mark, Mike. I called him Mark.

That's what he thinks about you.

I. I'm actually, Marina, I'm. I'm 100% on your side as well. I. I agree. I am not a big fan of the whole Hustle, grind.

Okay, so why does this exist? Marina?

I have no idea. I can give you some evolutionary speculations because, you know, it's conquer or die. It's that humanity had war since the inception of humanity. Whatever. I think in a sense there's a lot of history behind that. And United States specifically is a country of entrepreneurs, of people who wanted better life for themselves, who always had more land to expend until they got from one coast to the other. So I don't know, maybe it's somewhere in the our cognitive DNA to a degree. But I'm not really an anthropologist. I just see it around me and I kind of don't focus on the why. I focus on what do we do about it now, you know?

Yeah, no, I. I get you.

And Mike does have a degree in anthropology.

I am an anthropologist.

I actually do have a degree in anthropology.

Tell us, why is it Kels?

So I don't know.

Oh, you said with such confidence though that's helpful.

I mean, my feeling is it's more of a survival of the fittest thing where. Yeah, and it becomes that, I don't know, you have no other way to make it work besides putting as much work and time into it as possible rather than taking a step back and just thinking about how to make it more efficient.

But you know, I also think now it's a big trend because it sounds very sexy sounds. It removes all the excuses like, well, if you're not succeeding, it's because you're not working hard enough. You gotta keep working harder, harder. And it makes. It's a very good motivational speech and it's great.

You know what reminds me of reality? You know what it reminds me of? I'm sorry, I'm going to be really angry here.

So get angry. Get angry.

Yell at Kelsey. It was her fault.

Child weirdly has this thing about blaming themselves. And I read somewhere like why this is really happening. Why the child that's getting all kinds of horrible abuse is blaming him or herself. Because if it's your blame, then it's weirdly in your control. And then if it's in your control, you can somehow make yourself safe. Which is of course bs, especially in the case of an abused child. But it's kind of similar. You see, if you're not grandly successful, if you don't have a multi billion empire, it's because you're not working hard enough. It's because you are not doing enough. It's because it's your fault. And this is not necessarily the Case.

Yeah. And I think just to really kick this dead horse, I think when it comes to the, the wiring of the. The caveman mind is when you were a caveman and there was just a limited amount of food supply, whoever scurried, hurried the fastest, collected the quickest, beat up the other guys.

Assuming it was guys, caveman beat up guys. It's very. Yeah, cave people.

Cave people. I think, I think it was a.

Scarcity, gender equity, guys.

All right, so you have, you say that we can remove the emotion. We can remove emotion from these things, like the grind we're just talking about and, and money even. How do you remove emotion from these important elements of our business?

Well, so you put a system in place that A, includes a process, B, includes some version of automation, and the system is actually more important than specific tools and automations. I give you an example. People, especially like small business owners, often have trouble asking their clients for money. You know, sending invoices can be a very emotional thing, like, am I charging enough? Are they going to pay? Are they going to pay late? Are they going to think I'm a jerk for, you know, asking them for money? I kid you not, saw that a lot. And what happens half the time, invoices don't get sent, which means you don't get paid. If you have, you know, a clear template and you have a system in place now, like, I'm sending the invoice, the first invoice, right up front, and then I'm sending the next one a month in and then sending the next month another month in. And it's all stated, you know, in the contract from the beginning. And you have a late fee if the payment is whatever, two weeks late. And it's also stated in the beginning. And then you say, okay, there's a system that does, you know, my CRM or my automation or my assistant, then you are not part of the equation. It's not you now asking for money and being uncomfortable and being kind of maybe a jerk or maybe asking for too much or, oh, my God, I'm not charged enough? Are they going to think I'm like, my work is trash and I'm a fake? All these feelings, they're not there anymore. It's just, you know, it's part of the process. This is how it works. Because, for instance, if you, you know, if you order a pair of socks on Amazon, nobody is getting hung up on the fact that you need to pay for him, right?

They.

It's just, you know, they're just charging your credit Card and that's it. So when you have a system, the emotions are no longer there. It's just, you know, just an automated process. Just kind of like, you know, you don't think about the wheels in your car, how they turn when you drive and how the transmission work, because it just happens without your involvement. And when.

Yeah, I think they go round and round, the wheels on the road.

Probably.

Probably. I don't know. And never look. But the thing is, you know, you're no longer emotionally present there and it just happens. And you can turn your focus and invest your emotions in something else probably. Hopefully something creative.

Ryan, you have a membership site yourself that serves people looking to make membership sites. You've to collect money constantly, I assume?

Yes. How do you not have money?

How do you remove the emotional component?

You know, it is hard, but we try to add. We and I'm with Marina, 100% on systems and you need systems and a process and a flow. But we try to add the human element, the emotion into that as much as possible. So for example, when we have members, join every single member who joins. We have someone on our team and her main job is once we get the email. Hey, Kelsey just joined. She does an actual welcome video. Even a short little video. Hey, it's Amanda. Kelsey, congratulations, you're now part of our team. And welcome. And here's what to do first and here's what to do next. So she's. It's part of the system, but we add a human element into the system which, which, which adds that kind of warm and fuzzy feeling to it because.

You don't want to dehumanize it too much and then it all just becomes cogs, you know.

Absolutely, I completely agree with it. And I guess you remove the negative emotions and you introduce the positive emotions and then the system becomes kind of this nourishing element in your business. Rather than taking energy, it gives more energy like into your day.

Yeah, I agree.

Similar to profit first. It is a system. It is. It is the greatest system ever.

Thank you. Ever. It's the greatest system ever. Hey, so Marina, what about when you have existing bad systems or non existent systems. Non existent systems in place that can derail a business too. What do you do in those cases?

Well, first of all, this is in my experience like this and the lack of systems and marketing, that's probably the biggest reason why businesses cease to exist. Why people quit and why people.

Why people quit or while the business meaning the owner.

Yeah, like, you know, the business goes bankrupt or it just Becomes too much to bear even if the business is making money. Where was I going with that? Oh yeah, bad systems.

Well, I just want to know the non existent systems.

And you were mentioning profit first. That you like the book.

Yeah, well, sorry about that. The breaking up kind of threw me off. Edit out. When there are bad systems around the key aspect of business, you know, money, then you lose money. When there is a bad system or no system about managing your time, you find yourself at like 9pm God, where did the day go? Where'd day two? Or when you have no planning system, for instance, if you want to launch a new product but you have no freaking idea when and how you're going to do manufacturing and you make mistakes along the way and you don't get reasonable quotes and then you don't have a quality support system in place and you get a lot of refunds and it all just starts snowballing. It's painful. I give an example. When you have a bad delegation system, right? When you have a team and your team is never sure what the heck you're going to do. A long time ago I was working for an interior designer who had a team and she was awesome. She was one of the most talented people I've met. She was really sought after and you know, she was big enough to have a reasonably large team and you know, she was really known around the town, built half the restaurants there. And she would tell, you know, her delegation system was I'm going to yell things at you, start taking notes and you know, people will. And then she would go and do her next thing. And her team was like, you know what, I'm not doing this. Because in two hours she's going to change her mind. I'm not going to do this. And for me that was the first lesson. Not just like things didn't get done. And she was like, why do I have to do everything myself? It was the fact that your team stops respecting you because your delegation system sucks or like doesn't exist at all. You just think it exists.

Right? So I know. So people now are. And this is some really good kind of big idea theoretical stuff. And I'm going to ask you one question. So is there anything specific? Because I know you're going to say it doesn't really matter, they need a system. But I'm going to hold you to this for a second. Is there a specific piece of software or program you recommend or you've seen companies use to start just creating systems? I mean for us we start with something like shared Google Docs and we use Basecamp. Are there any specific things you've seen that you're like, if you're starting from scratch, this is a good program to at least begin. Sure.

I'm a fan of smartsheets. Smart Cheat, because I'm a visual person and I grew up when there were a lot of Gantt Charts. That's kind of my first jobs in Project Gap.

Oh, Gantt Charts. Yeah. I thought that was like, those people.

Invading the country or something.

It sounds like a racist comment.

Horrified to ask.

No. Came across. I was like, oh, my God.

Yep, Mike's a Gantt Charts.

Gotcha. Smart Sheets.

Keep going.

I told you again. Chart for the uninitiated. When you have a bar for every task and they're kind of in there on the timeline. So if the bar goes from April 3rd to April 20th, that's the task that's going to take you two and a half weeks. It's represented by a little line on the task line. If the next task is going to be right after that, it's going to appear below and kind of to the right. So it's a very visual way of representing what's going to happen in your project. One thing after the other after the other. Obviously, in a perfect world. So Smartsheet gives you the ability to not just do Gantt Charts. It has the calendar. It has a card view like Asana. It connects to almost every system out there. Like, it connects really well to the calendar. You can export stuff into spreadsheets because you want to use spreadsheets for your budget, for example. And it has a very good communication system because you can communicate within smartsheets with your team members and you can attach documents inside and then connect them to Google Docs. So I like it because it's like, it's not super expensive. I think it starts 15 bucks a month. It depends on your level.

Once again, today's episode sponsored by smartsheets.

I wish I was getting percentages of that, but no, honestly.

No, but this is. This look. This is stuff people want. They also want to know specific tactical things.

Oh, totally.

That was a. Someone asked a good question there.

That was a good question. That's a good question. What about the. You said you had some rituals off air Marina, you said you had some rituals about starting and finishing projects. What do you mean by that?

It's not just starting and finishing projects, because that's fairly easy. You know, you can start a project with Pump and Circumstance. You can go and you know, announce on Facebook, I'm launching my super widget.

That's what that. Ironically, that's what Ryan originally called his.

Bar super widget, but it was too long, too many syllables. So I said just super bar.

I want that super bar, by the way. I want it another plug.

So we're gonna. We'll send you one 10% discount.

Thank you. Appreciate that. But, you know, and same thing, when you finish a project, you throw a big celebration. You open a bottle of champagne, whatever. But that is not enough. Because day to day, we don't have large projects starting and finishing three times an hour. However, we do have tasks. Sorry, we do have tasks that we need to start and finish every day, and especially the creative tasks. Because, admin, if you get a good system, the rituals are kind of built in. Maybe it's a ritual when you just go and open your computer or open a spreadsheet and look at it for a second, and that's your ritual. But for creative tasks, you need to kind of shift your mindset. And then having a ritual for starting is helping your brain understand, okay, I'm there. Now I'm doing my writing. So for me, for instance, when I start recording, I go, I open my, you know, I open Audacity, or I open, you know, Zoom, which is sometimes where I do my recordings and I plug in my microphone. It's usually unplugged, but the opening of the software and plugging in the microphone signals to me that, okay, now I'm in the recording mode.

I got you. So the ritual, it doesn't have to be this grand, fair activity. I remember Anthony Robbins saying, like, when he was going into a sales meeting, he'd go to the door handle, and then as he grabbed the door handle, he pretended it was electric and it would give him tons of energy and he'd do some kind of manly chest pounding and walk in.

That's interesting. I feel like, as a creative, though, it's hard for me to have rituals because it has the adverse effect where as soon as I say I'm going to do it, like, if I want to create jewelry and then I sit down to do it, like, if I mandate it, I hate it. It makes me mad. Almost like I can't do it. I feel like I'm not creative. I feel like I'm repetitive and redundant. But if I just have, like, you know, if I'm just doing whatever and I have a, you know, a thought pop in my head, and then I want to go create.

Interesting.

But I find, see for me, ritual is the environment for, like, I need to be out of the house, out of my office, at a coffee shop where I do my creative stuff. So I bet you, you feel more creative when you're a creative space.

Yeah, yeah, I think environments.

Yeah. And there's this thing heard.

Thank you, Kelsey.

Yeah, it's called creative whirlpools. And I have someone who I deeply appreciate who says, I'm just waiting for creative whirlpools. I don't have, you know, my Mondays is my writing time. No, I just do my thing. I go through my day, I work with my clients, and then when it comes, it comes. And then I kind of know how to channel it, I know how to use it. And maybe the ritual is recognizing, like you said, that this thought pops in my head, you know, to recognize that this is what happened now. And you go and you maybe write it down. You go and make something.

I like that. But I think the reality is, like, say Ryan has a creative moment right now. Or sometimes he goes by Mark. Say Mark has a creative moment right now.

Marcus.

Actually, Marcus. And we're in the middle of a podcast. He can't just get up and walk out. We got three hours of recording.

Guys will be right back.

I mean, how do you, Marina, how do you kind of balance the reality of external demands with these creative whirlpools?

It's a great question, and it's a question I'm constantly working on. I'm not the person for myself for creative whirlpools, but for people who are creative, I'm trying to help them recognize these signals and also know that they have dedicated either times or spaces or both where they can realize their creative ideas. So, for instance, if you have this idea and you still have two hours of podcasting in front of you.

If.

You hang onto it because you know that tomorrow you're going to a cafe, it creates this level of ease that you're not necessarily going to lose your idea. Or maybe, you know, maybe your ritual is that when you have a bathroom break. I hope you have bathroom breaks in your two hour recording sessions.

Rarely.

Mike started taking six.

Like, I had one of those rewind bars and I have to keep running through the bathroom.

We do have seven grams. We do have seven grams of fiber. Keeps you.

Yeah. And diapers. So you press a boat.

Oh, good. Nice. Marina.

Marina boat.

Hold on. I should have the sound effect.

Today's episode sponsored by Pampers.

Let's say you do have a break. Or let's say you just. Right after the recording session, you press a button on your phone, you say, remind me to do blah, blah, blah tomorrow when I'm at a cafe, right? And the reminder will pop at you and will bring the idea back so you don't lose it. And you can, you can say that it's a ritual, or you can say that it's a system, or you can say that it's a trick that you're using, but it all comes down to the, to the same thing. You have a solution for keeping your creative ideas, for making sure things don't get lost. And, you know, when we speak about rituals, there is another really important things. It's easier to get into creative mode sometimes than to decide when the task is finished. So in my mind, finishing rituals are. They're no less important than starting rituals because, you know, creative job is never done. I have this friend, she's amazing. She. She is now in Milan in one of the top design exhibits there freaking are. She's presenting, you know, one of the craziest desks I've ever seen. One of the most creative things there are. I'm not sure I'm allowed to say what it looks like for proprietary reasons.

Is it visible? No, it's very visible.

It's gorgeous. So freaking visible. You cannot miss it. And, you know, and she puts pictures and she's like, people are coming. People are excited about her desk. And she goes, you know, and I only see the mistakes. I only see where it should be a little better, where I should have polished it a little different, where the lines are not quite as I wanted them to be, like on the leg of a table. And of course, we yell at her and we say, you know, the fact that your work is never done is the sign that you're a true creative. And this is how it is. I think da Vinci said it probably not first, but a long time ago, that you cannot really finish a masterpiece. You can always perfect it. Now, maybe if you are Leonardo da Vinci and you're sponsored by the Court of Venice, it's, yeah, you have the luxury of never finishing your creative work. But for us mortals, that's kind of not how it works. So you need to understand and signal to yourself, where do you draw the line? In the sand. And this is where the finishing rituals are really, really important. Like, how do you know that you're done for now with this creative work? How do you know that your blog post is written? How do you know that your chapter is finished and you can send it over how do you know that your jewelry piece is fully polished and you can photograph it and you can put it on your website for sale.

And this is self defined.

Usually it's best when it's self defined because it's kind of. You decide. But sometimes you need external help. So for instance, if you have a team member and you have an agreement with this person that could even. You have this. It's easier when somebody else decides for you and you have the built in accountability too. So I'll give you an example. My coach is now running a class called Write a Book with Me. And she's writing it as she goes. And she has a ritual with her assistant to come in every. I think it was 600 words, come look at it and say, this is good, this is good. You can continue. You can continue to the next paragraph because otherwise she would be like writing and rewriting and mulling over and suffering, agonizing over it. So here's the ritual for somebody else. The creative job.

It's true.

Yeah.

Then never complete. Do you have a ritual, Ryan?

You know, well, I love the. I love having little mastermind groups that I formed.

Yeah.

With a few friends. And we hold. We meet every month and we hold ourselves accountable. I. It's one thing to have a team and to have a business. And if. So, if you're the business owner, you have to make sure you hire people who are not yes men and yes women.

Yeah.

Because they'll always.

Yeah, you just did it. Yeah.

You see? Yes.

You see, he hired badly.

He didn't have a good hiring system. But I also think, mentally, you. So they're the ones who could say, look, Ryan, it's good enough. Go the super boss.

Yeah.

Just the right level.

But you also, I think, have to.

Be internally that external validation.

But you need. You also need to internally, before you even start it, say, it's not gonna be perfect. And I'm okay with it.

Even.

Even Mike. And I love all his books, I guarantee you. What was the first one you wrote? Was it the toilet paper? Yeah. If you go back and read it now, there's probably a lot of things to change. Right. And I've written a couple books too, and I cringe thinking about it. So you have to be okay saying, look, this is gonna be good. It's gonna be as good as I can make it, but it's not gonna be perfect. And I'm okay with it.

Yeah.

And then I like to give myself little mini rewards. So I say, okay, I'm working on this. Thing. If I'm gonna finish this post this video, I'm gonna reward myself tonight by going to a movie or by doing something with one of my kids. Like just something a little. A little mini reward.

And do you. If you don't achieve your goal, do you not give yourself the reward or.

You still go to the movie? It depends what the movie is. I'll be honest. Depends.

What's a good movie reward with your friend? That has another to. It is if I finish this freaking episode and I edit it and it's out in the world, then I'm going to have a coffee with my friend. And she. If she finishes, I think, like her green card application. That's the most recent example. She finally just doing her green card application. Then we meet. So then I feel like if I screw up, oh, she's not going to have coffee for me. I'm, like, taking the reward from her as well. And she feels that if she doesn't finish the application.

Oh, I like that. I like that.

Especially if you're motivated by. That's right. People or by pleasing other people.

I think you need. I really do think having someone else there is important. If it's just you sitting alone doing your thing, it's amazing how many people never actually finish. You've got to eventually finish it. You have to put it out there.

We got to wrap things up. The time flew by, and we still have to summarize what we learned. Marina, I know we just scratched the surface on what you teach. Where can people learn more about what you're doing?

You can come hang out with me@vision-framework.com. that's my virtual home. Come disagree with me. I love when people disagree with me in comments to my blog.

Really?

I love the debate.

So vision-framework.com.

I'M a yes person, so I won't.

Yeah, she'll know. Kelsey will never disagree.

Marina, I disagree with you. I want to agree with you. I just blew my own mind. I just blew my mind.

Yeah. Oh, my God.

This is not an argument. Yes, it is. No, it isn't.

Yes, it is.

No, it isn't.

All right, Maria, thanks so much for joining us on the show today. You were wonderful. And we'll have this all in the show notes so people can check in. Okay.

Thank you very much for having me.

Thanks, Marita.

Thanks.

We'll see you later. All right. So you and I met over a lawn. A lawn salad. Remember that?

No, that wasn't our first. Well, we did hang out.

Yeah, we met in the City.

We met in the city.

So I'm with Ryan and he goes. I'm like, he's eating super healthy. I'm like, hey, let's have a beer. He's like, I don't drink beer. I'm like, oh, why don't we have like a Twix bar together? He goes, so we're at David Busters. He goes, I'll have a lawn salad. Is that what they call it? I've never seen the freaking salad so big. It was for me one time, first.

Of all, it was just. I said, I'll have a salad. It was like one type of salad. And it was. It was a huge platter and it was. Everything was. There was the lettuce lined up in a row and the cucumbers in a row and.

Yes.

Yeah, it was ridiculous.

It was massive.

It was an amazing salad with.

Wait, didn't you send it back or something?

Yeah, I think you did return a salad.

You know what happened? Because they. I said, but no, it was like one of those crumpled. I'll eat pretty much anything, but I don't like those hard blue cheese.

Yeah, me either.

And they sprinkled it on like it was a freaking winter wonderland. Yeah. I said, I'll have that lawn salad, but just no disgusting cheese. He's like, okay. Like, he's like in a pizza place. Yeah, I'm going to jump on the.

When you ordered it, you said no cheese. And they put.

He basically threw it in my face.

He did. He did. I've never seen someone return a salad ever. I'm sorry. I said medium rare, and I don't.

Think I've ever returned a salad. But when you start throwing it. He stood on like a four foot ladder with cheese, jumped down, and wham. That's how much blue cheese is on it. All of it looked like we just came from just cocaine. It was everywhere, all over. White powder.

People were snorting blue cheese. All right, so here's what we're gonna do. In a minute, we're gonna recap what we learned from Marina. Do we have a questioner? Questioner?

We do have a questioner.

We do. Okay, we have a questionnaire we're gonna answer and. And then we'll do our wrap. So first, our corporate partners. I want to thank Fundbox. Are they still a partner? I don't think they sent a check in a long time.

Well, they're a partner in spirit.

Yeah. Ron's like, loving on them. They stop sending us money and we're still treating a sponsor. But they are a wonderful company. So Fundbox, you ever have an invoice due to you? Maybe in the past, businesses you've had that the clients is not paying.

Yeah. You have to chase them down.

Oh, my. So frustrating. And they'll pay you, but it takes like 60 days or 90. Fundbox gives you the money right up front. Ryan. And 100% of it. And then when you collect the money from the client, you return to fund Box, plus a fee. But it's immediate loan, if you will. So it addresses cash flow. There are cash flow.

So they actually take it over.

No, you. That's the whole thing. You still handle it. So that. Because if they do, it's a collection agency. This way, the customer doesn't. The customer says, oh, I'll send you the check in 60 days. You're like, I need the money now. Fundbox just gives you the money within 24 hours, by the way. And then you continue to call your customer. When you get the money, you return it to Funbox.

That's really interesting. So Fundbox has done. Just waiting on you.

Yeah.

They're like, all right, you take your time. We'll.

Yeah, I need the money.

Yeah.

I think they say don't take longer than 90 days. They're gonna start taking no longer fund box. And it's like a hole box. They come after you real hard, but for 90 days funds. Yeah. Next week.

Great endorsement.

It was one. They don't pay us those.

A hole box.

Here's the funny thing is we need Fundbox to get money from Fundbox.

Can I. I'm gonna get another Fundbox to co. Collect from Funbox.

We should do. We should call Kelsey. We should call Fundbox and say, we can't collect this money.

Can we borrow money? And then invoice them right back.

Oh, my God. But they are a great company. Nextiva is our voice over IP phone system. Who do you use?

Skype.

That's your phone company.

I don't really have a phone company. Everything is virtual.

Wow.

Yeah.

So your mobile phone and Skype.

Yeah. No one really even has our phone number except you and my wife pretty much. Yeah.

It's unbelievable.

Everything is email and online messaging.

Skype has lost its plot.

It's. Yeah, I'm not. I mean, you can't. You dropping calls. You can't hear anything.

And then connecting is really hard sometimes.

Everything and every. My Skype crashes every single day. Every time I restart the computer, I have to restart Skype and they keep changing it. So now I don't even Know how to share a screen. It's different. But yeah, tell me about this other company because I'm right, I'm serious. So I really don't like.

I don't know if their company still buy back. Oh, so now nextiva. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I thought you. No, no, I'm saying, tell me you're done with nextiva.

No, I'm done with Skype.

So nextiva, this phone right here is a nextiva based IP phone. You can see the little Ethernet cable. So they. I don't know what the fee is. Like $20 a phone maybe.

Yeah, I feel like it's like 18, something like that.

$18 a phone. Unlimited calls, unlimited international. Really? Yeah. And this is, this is one of the low. They use the Polycom phone system. So if you have Polycons, you can just plug it in. But now we have the ones with video conferencing. You can just like the phone will connect to another phone. And everyone here has what's called simultaneous ring. I think you have it too. Where rings here at the office, but also your home office. Because she's virtual one day a week. She's working from home. Ron works from home. He's trying to do like three days a week. I work from home. People can't tell where you are. It's all.

What's it called?

Nextiva. N, E, X, T I, V A nextiva.

You just sold your page.

I told you.

And their support is excellent. Yeah, they're so easy.

Yeah. So like, if you want to set up your phone, you just call them and like, I got this phone in the box. Like, okay, step one, open the box.

They'll do that level very careful with your box cutter.

And like, you don't have to code anything. You just say, listen, I want this to ring here and there. I want to change my ringtone. And, and I want xyz. They're like, okay, done.

And they send you. It's just a. I mean, it's a phone.

It's a phone. Yeah. And you don't even have to buy the phone from them. It's a Polycom phone that we have.

You like saying Polycom, don't you?

I do.

It's good.

I do, I do.

And the voicemails go to your email.

Yeah.

So it automatically email it to you.

I'm liking. Yeah, I am liking nextiva.

But here's the big thing that nextiva is doing is within the next year, they're rolling out a CRM that integrates your phone. So your phone Rings. CRM, pops up on your computer simultaneously. It's connected. It records into your CRM, all that stuff. It's called Next os. Okay, that's our corporate partners and you, our dear listeners, give them a what about Receipt Bank. Oh, I don't think they're a corporate partner anymore, are they?

Yeah.

Geez, I gotta know this stuff. I love Receipt Bank.

So do I. Tell me about it.

Mike, you ever have a receipt? No.

Next.

You take your phone, you scan your receipt. It syncs it up with QuickBooks, Xero. What accounting software do you use?

My accountant.

You even have an accounting platform?

I just give him everything.

Seriously?

Yeah.

Even your receipts?

Yeah. My business right now, we're gonna be. We're gonna add a new system, because with the. With the nutrition, companies can be much different because we have vendors now. It's a whole different process. With the online. With the membership site, there really is, like, people just pay, and it goes right into our account. There's, like, no systems, no chasing, nothing. Oh, yeah, they cancel their own account. It's. It's very easy.

Well, we should talk with your account. He should get Receipt bank for his client, you. And what they do is. All he does is you have a little app. You click on it, it scans your receipt, it categorizes it. It does all the work, the. The entry work for her or him, and it sends it over.

I like that.

That's easy peasy.

Easy peasy. All right, now let's discuss our one takeaway. Oh, do I have to do the punch? There we go.

Now, do you want to do listener mail?

No, because we're running out of time. Let's. Let's do the what we learned, and then maybe listener mail.

Okay, cool.

Oh. Oh.

So what'd you learn today?

All right, Ryan, you're up first. What'd you learn from Marina?

I learned about smartsheets. Yeah, I. I like that. I'm a big fan of really cool visual systems that could organize everything. So I'd heard her smartsheets once before, but I haven't really thought about it again. So now it's back into my mind, and I'm just. I'm gonna dig in. I'm gonna go play.

Okay.

Yeah.

There's your discovery.

Somebody else mentioned Smartsheets Prior on the podcast, and I had looked at it briefly cursory, but not extensively, but it reminds me of Asana a bit. What she was explaining, it seemed similar to Asana, and I really love Asana, especially for, like, when you have a Thought in your head, like, I'll just post it there so that I can keep doing what I'm doing and then come back to it when I have time to.

What was your takeaway, Kels?

Those creative whirlpools. It's a cool term, actually. Yeah, I like that way of thinking of when you have it. It's that whirlpool, and you just kind of have to embrace it and go with it and be more cognitive about just kind of jotting it down, writing it down when that happens.

Yeah, I heard that, too. Me was, you lose. You lose respect of your colleagues when you don't know how to delegate. She was sharing a story of the interior designer who did the Della yell, where you kind of delegate, but you're yelling out like, hey, do this. It's called a deli.

The next book is yell first instead of profit first.

Just do this. But the people start losing confidence in you.

Yeah, I agree with that 100%. I feel like I've had bosses like that previously where you need guidance to a certain degree, and you need to understand what their needs are and what your expectations are, what their expectations of you are. When that changes, it's. It's like a losing battle all the time.

Yeah, I hate that. The changing, the constant changing. I didn't say that. You did yesterday. Did I?

Yeah.

Do this now.

And it's. It's one thing if they know. I mean, look, we know that our leadership type. I know I'm changing my ideas every day, but at least we. If we have it down in writing and it's not just me kind of shouting things out, and then there's all this confusion. So at least get it on paper and be like, okay, this is what we're doing today. Yeah, let's try it. And if we shift, we shift. But at least. But at least be up with it. Be up front.

Yeah, put it on paper, baby.

Paper.

I love it. All right, let's do. Listen to mail. We got like, three minutes.

Okay, ready? This comes from Andy Richardson. He's a professional engineer.

Grabs a beer, he can't help but chug.

Okay. He says, I would like to implement a course quarterly and or monthly program of bonuses and profit sharing with my employees in order to build morale and motivation. What account should I pull this from? I'm guessing it would not be the owner, pay profit taxes, and obviously not income. So that really just leaves the OPEX account. Do I look at the account and pay out based on some threshold amount? I do not recall this in the book or podcast, but I could have missed it.

Alright, Andy, so what we do is we do pull that actually from the profit account. We do it here. So what we do. Do you know the percentages, Kalis? We've announced it.

Yeah. 50%.

Oh, shit. She knows her numbers. That's right.

And then 80% goes to the owners.

20% to the colleagues. Yeah. To the employees. So what we did is we had a profit distribution. We go literally go to the profit account. And remember, the rule of profit is take out half of it and celebrate with it. Of the half we take out, we give 80% to the owners, the people that took the risk of starting a business, but 20% to the people who are supporting it. So we divide it up and I think everyone here got a bonus check. Like 600 bucks, 700 bucks. Almost.

Yeah.

This last quarter and every quarter it happens. And I think, Kels, it's promoting efficiency and people are just a little more interested in.

It's a vested interest.

Yeah.

You want to build the profit because you gain from it personally.

Yep. So there you go, Andy. Profit comes out of profit. Andy, Andy, Andy, Andy. All right, Kal, what can people do?

You can leave us a comment or ratings on itunes, Stitcher and profitfirstpodcast.com or mikemcalowitz.com leave us any comments. Research the blog.

That's perfect. Any final thoughts you got for us? Ryan as our host?

I am. I'm loving this.

Are you?

I'm coming back every episode. I am going to be your permanent.

Oh. If you want to. You know, Ryan got a hotel room down just so he'd be here. Fresh. You're fresh. You're sharp.

I'm fresh. By the. By the third or fourth episode. Maybe not. No, I. I'm going to rock this. So we're just getting started.

It's beautiful. And. And the beautiful part is I wasn't nervous that I was going to try to be too funny. Like, I wanted to impress you. And I'm like that. I'm going to overdo it. It's just going to be. I think this was a good, informative episode.

This.

This was just enough shtick.

It was just enough stick. Right.

It was sticky.

Cool. All right, stick with us. We'll see you.

Stick around.

We'll see you next episode.

Bye, everybody.