Episode 205: Transitioning to an Entrepreneur with Steven King

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Yeah, of course.

He's a British man.

Yes.

I had him on a show and he's coming on and we're doing a little discussion. Mike. All right, bro, no problem. He goes, did you just call me bro?

Wait, what was that British accent? Can you just do that again?

Just call me bruh. That's, that is, that is say Fast Times a Richmond High. From a British accent, how would you do it? Just call me bro.

Well, there's different, you know, there's different types of British accents. There's like, there's the cockney and then there's.

Can you, can you do a British accent?

Well, no, I could just. Hello.

Hello, mate. Hello, mate. That's Australian me.

Well, no, they'll say, they'll say, hello, chap, Chap.

Hello, chap. Good afternoon.

Yeah, my, my.

How are you?

Very good.

Are you fine? Is everything okay? Where's Harry Potter?

Hello, Harry Potter?

Where's Harry Potter?

Harry Potter.

Harry Potter.

Yeah, you guys. But he's like, you called me bro. He got all fired up and then we had this whole discussion, so I called him bro. The rest of the show I'm like, what's up, bro?

What's up, bro?

What's the word you use, Ryan, when you, like when you say, like if I call, if I called you and you thought my name was Mark and you're like, no, it's something different. It's not. What's the fill in word you use?

Boss or brother?

Boss.

I would, you know, I'll tell you, I actually find it a little annoying. Like if I go to a restaurant and say, hey, how can I help you, boss? Yeah, I don't like that.

I don't like it either.

I find it.

I do like that.

Not that anybody says it to me.

But it seems a little condescending. How can I help you, boss? Hey, boss.

Really? Yeah.

I don't know why. It's a little pet peeve.

The boss you don't get. Women don't get called boss.

I don't.

What do you get called?

I think I have a very dumb.

What do your friends call you when they can't remember your name?

I would say like lovey. Lovey dear.

Hey, Lovey dear. Yeah, yeah.

Lovey's from Gilligan's Island.

Lovey.

Lovey. Is that the professor's wife?

No, professor didn't have a wife. It was. Oh, the old Mr. Howell. Mr. Howell. Mr. Howell and Lovey. Yes.

Yeah. So I think. Bro. Pal. Hey, pal. How you doing, buddy? Dude. Something dude.

Yeah.

And then the.

The man.

Man. The all covering ones is the word. You. Hey, how are you?

So good to see you.

Your name is you.

I'm Jewish, so sometimes they'll say, hey, Jew. So I'll say, you.

How'd you do it?

How'd you do.

You know what? If I have another child, I'm gonna name him or her you. Y O, U.

That's a good.

Because then they're always right. Someone's like, hey, how are you doing?

And they'll always know their own name. And I'm gonna name my kid Brock.

Brock.

Broccoli.

Broccoli.

Way better.

I like that.

See, that was clever.

You like that? Mike's was not. Well, I had to fill in. It was a little awkward, so I had to try to bring the funny.

Thanks for saving us.

You got it.

Well, welcome, everybody. This is the Profit first podcast. Co host.

Yeah, you can run with him.

I want to do another. I didn't know how many you had.

Yeah, I know.

Oh, yeah, there's only three. So. Hey, this is another episode of the Profit first podcast. We got a special episode today because we're talking with someone who's implementing profit first in their brand new business. They need the guidance of the pros who are all gathered in this room talking about broccoli. My name is Mike Michalowicz. I'm the author of Profit first and Clockwork. You better get a copy of that book Right now. I'm joined in studio by our guest host, Ryan Lee.

Hey, hey, hey, hey. Block work. La Ronge.

I had a guy in college, Neil Orange, and I would call him Neil La Ronge.

La Ronge.

Lockwork. La Orange.

So Neil La Ronge, if you're listening in right now, take him to you Bro. Also in studio is the co host to the host, Kelsey Ayers.

Hello, everybody.

And me myself, I'm the co host to the co host, Kelsey. I think it flips to you now at this point of the show.

Oh, you can find us on itunes, Stitcher, Tunein Radio, Google Play, profitfirstpodcast.com or any podcaster anywhere, anywhere in the world.

And I think we're on some more podcasters. I don't know what else is out there.

Yeah, there's podcast. No castbox.

Yeah, we're all over that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Podcast addiction.

Are you on the Podney Dangerfield Show? Look at that.

What was the show? Hold on. Do I have the sound effect from it? No, I don't. The one that used to be show and people be running around.

Well, I almost thought for a second, like Benny Hill.

That's exactly what it was.

Yeah, it was a little bald guy. Yeah, I loved Benny Hill.

You ever see Benny Hill?

No.

So I don't know if it was the close of the show or the open where they do that running. So it'd be people chasing each other, but in a line.

We. It was like a weird British show. It was like the late 70s, maybe early. It was. It was so raunchy. I remember as a kid not understanding half of the jokes, but just laughing.

Yeah. I think it was the predecessor to Carol Burnett. Like it was before the Carolina.

I love the Carol Burnett show too.

Me too. Who's your favorite from Carol Burnett?

Well, Tim Conway, of course.

Yes. Who's your favorite?

I don't know.

Tim Conway was so good. Mrs. Who? Wiggins.

But Harvey was great too, because he couldn't.

Couldn't hold his shit together.

He'd always just crack up.

There he'd be laughing. He would. He was excellent. He was in Blazing Saddles, wasn't he?

Yes.

Gosh, he was good.

I liked him. Our age, by the way. What are we showing our age? We are Benny Hill.

And Kelsey's sitting there going, I don't know any of these. You don't know any of these things, do you? No.

I mean, I know the Carol Burnett show, but I don't know.

The people in it is. Make sure you stay on the microphone.

Oh, sorry.

That's right. You're still with you. Oh, my God, this is incredible. Is Carol Burnett still alive?

Yes, she is.

She is.

Tim Conway is as well, but the other is he. Harvey passed away a couple years ago.

Harvey Corman. But Vicky Florence is probably still alive too.

Oh, actually Vicki Lawrence. But Vicki Lawrence might be Alive as well.

Is Vicki Lawrence still alive? She must be.

I believe so. I haven't really kept up much on the Vicki Lawrence.

What was the name of her spin off show?

Mama's Family.

Yes.

If you're gonna try to ask me, you gotta bring it a little harder.

I know. I gotta stump you. I don't really know much. Okay, I'll try to bring. I'll try to stump you. So what have you been up to, Kals? So you just did the house. You were talking about the house earlier.

Yeah.

So the. Why would they want to change the closing date? Does the seller. Are they more anxious to sell? Like, what's.

Yeah, I think they just want money in their pockets sooner.

Okay.

And I want it just because then you don't have the anxiety of waiting to make sure it all happens. Plus, then I can start doing, like, all my projects that I have planned in my head, you know?

Oh, you have all that stuff ready?

Yeah.

Did you come in with a lot? Did you come in with a lot of vision?

Yes.

Okay.

What's the first project you're gonna do, do you think?

A mural on the. There's like a. A kind of a long, empty wall.

This is in the basement?

No, it's in the. Like the first floor in the living room.

Oh, where the fireplace is so across.

From where the fireplace is. It's right across the opposite wall.

This could be a picture of Mike with the shirt off. Almost like one of these harlequin novels. Like, he's just the wind blowing in the hair.

Wouldn't that be awesome?

Flowing hair.

I wanted it to be a surprise.

It was no longer a surprise. That would be so awesome. Do you remember when Fabio got hit by the goose in the face?

No. That happened.

Yes. On a roller coaster.

And it. Like, he killed the bird.

And it's. It's on video. I think you can YouTube it. Fabio was going down on a roller coaster in the height of his modeling career. Hair flapping and a goose.

Yes. Smash them in the face.

Perfect.

Yeah. And made a mural out of it.

Yeah. What are you doing?

So our closing's May 15th, so. Well, after the show is this show play. Well, after we close. But the first thing we're doing is buying furniture. So we were shopping this weekend. It's weird. We went to Raymore Flanagan, and it's actually nice. Nice furniture. Right. Then we went to Basset. I don't know if it's.

I've heard of Basset.

Yeah. Same furniture, double the price. And then we went to this thing Called. I can't even pronounce the name. It was this exotic name. Prices were two times more than Bassett. Like a. They had a little armoire, like $12,000. It was a piece of garbage. It was. They were all floor samples they were selling and were bruised, damaged, dented, scratched. I'm like, what? And it looked like it was junk. So I think Raymond Flanagan or Bassett holder.

Yeah.

Or Wayfair. Have you guys discovered Wayfair?

Yeah. If you go to Wayfair online, you can get the same stuff for, like, 80% less.

Yeah. Is the quality, though. That's what I'm concerned.

I've heard it's good. We have a designer. I sounded really fancy that we have a designer.

I mean, you have Connecticut.

We have an interior designer, and she's recommended some. Some Wayfair stuff.

Yeah.

Because with the retail thing I'm setting up, she's saying, hey, go to Wayfair. You can get a couch for $400 instead of 2,000. It's good quality.

Yeah.

Yeah. So the couch we looked at is $4,000. It's a super big cash. I found it on Wayfair. Very similar. Not the same one. About 2000. About half the price.

Yeah.

The only thing is, it's. I don't know. I can't.

I think.

Yeah. It's hard to gauge.

Yeah.

I don't know if they offer free shipping.

They do.

They do.

Oh, back. Oh, I feel like they do. The reviews I've read has said that the customer service is really good.

In terms today's episode sponsored by Wayfair.

Wayfair. Where are you gonna get your theory?

A lot of it's from Ikea and Wayfair.

Yeah. That's the way they like. Yeah. I'm telling. I got a couch for it, and I'm telling it's mint condition, but I almost feel bad. Like, do you ever give furniture to anyone else? You're like, oh, I have this for you. But then you're like, oh, God, what if they don't like it? Now they think I'm giving them my stuff.

I don't want all the time. We have a woman who was, for years and years was helped with babysit our kids, so. And she just had her second baby, so we give her, like, everything, right? Yeah, we just.

How did she receive it?

Was she excited or really excited? Okay, well, we just don't give. And you don't want to give people, like, old mattresses.

Yes.

That's kind of the soil.

Yeah. Here's like, old, dirty Mattress. Here you go.

Yeah, you don't give a bed, I guess.

No, you don't give beds.

Ironically, we're buying beds with our new house. They have the. Yeah, it's a five bedroom house and my. We have a five bedroom where we currently are, but we have all single beds and they're literally my 25 year.

Old son on a single bed.

This is the bed. Yeah, yeah, a single bed. He's a big guy. He's a big guy. And this is a bed we got him when he was for his first bed. It's 22 years old, spring shooting out.

And Mike and his wife each have single beds that just right next to each other.

We do. It's like I Love Lucy.

Yes.

All right. Okay, on that note, let's talk about our sponsors. I want to thank Fundbox, nextiva and Receipt bank for their support. We'll tell you about more about those fine folks in just a little bit. Do we have a membership success story or anything we want to shout out?

This one comes from Jackie Johnson. So Jackie Johnson just read your book. She's a real estate agent working and living in South Africa. And it's a commission only business which is wildly fluctuating income. And she identifies with many of the solutions you talk about in the book. And now she's currently making decisions based on what the bank balance is and then when the terror sets in to sell, sell, sell. So now she's reframing the way that she thinks about it and now she has these accounts set up and she just started listening to the podcast. So shout out to Jackie.

Nicely done, Jackie.

Hello, Jackie.

Jackie. Proud of you. All right, let's get to our guest. His name is Stephen King. You had to say something, didn't you?

I don't know what to say. Share the story for me. Well, I know that it's been a challenge having a name, sharing someone famous. So, Stephen, what I was gonna say is, so my last name is Lee and true story, my father's name is Bruce Lee as well. So. So I grew up being the son of Bruce Lee. We used to get up, you know, back in the 70s and 80s, before caller ID, we would get prank phone calls and they would look in the phone book, you know, see Bruce Lee. Hey, this is Chuck Norris. I want to fight Bruce Lee.

It's funny one time.

It was funny one time, not all the time.

I've gone from Stephen King the camp director to Stephen King the butcher. So it's been quite the adventure.

Yeah, it must get exhausting at Times.

You know, you get used to it after a while. And I used to tell everybody, collect a nickel from everybody that made the joke. But, you know, it's part of life. And people never forget you. They. They remember that name.

That's true.

The problem is, I'm saying a lot of, hey, you, bro. Because they can remember things.

That's funny. Everyone remembers your name.

Now I'm the guy using the bros. Cause, you know, it's hard to remember and keep everybody straight. And being a camp director, you know, every kid, they remember who you are, but then you're trying to guess who they are. So you use the old camp director trick. If you give them the little hug or the half hug, you know, the side hug, as camp directors do. And while you do that, you peek at the collar, under the collar, and you look at the name on the shirt, you're like, pj, how are you, buddy?

Oh, nice. I didn't know camp directors do that. Let me give you a little bit of Steven's background. He owns Kings, Texas Smokehouse in Campwood, Texas, which is. The population is growing there by about 5% per year. They were at 716. He just said they're 726.

Wow.

Yeah. That's not even 5%. That's 3% growth. That's good.

You're the numbers guy.

I'm the numbers guy.

Massive, massive population growth.

Yeah.

So people always say to go for location, location, location. We're having to establish destination. Destination. Destination is our goal.

Well, we're going to dig into these challenges that you're facing right now. So you have a population 716. He's discovered profit first. He's implementing it. Smokehouse, which specializes in barbecue, burgers, beer, and different kinds of beasts. And how many weeks are you in now? A couple months or what's the status?

I started on March 30th. So I'm at the. At the recording of this. I think I'm about 53, 54 days in now. You know, dropping in there and finding a business that wasn't everything that I thought it was going to be. When you walk in the doors, the inventory is really down. The, you know, some of the sales figures, I don't know if they were as accurate as you think, but I think everybody finds that in a business transaction when they get in there and then the reality hits. So it's been a. It's been quite the road.

So let's set the stage here. So did you buy the business? It sounds like you bought the Business, right.

I earlier on this time last year, a year ago, this wasn't even on my radar. And being a camp director, I'd made a little coin for kids because I worked with kids with physical disabilities and diabetes studying grit, putting grit and wanting to identify grit. So I made this poker chip I carried in my pocket and it says, you've got grit. And grit is courage, resolve, strength of character. And what I would do is seek out a camper that was showing some grit and I would give it to him. The back of the coin says, you've got what it takes. I'd bet on you, King.

Oh, cool.

And I would find kids with that grit and I would give them that coin. Well, I didn't know when I made those that that would be the thing that would haunt me every night as I took it out of my pocket and put one on the dresser. That's the thing that's just like, you got what it takes, man. Are you going to do this entrepreneurial dream or not? You know, and are we going to jump out there? And I'd been, you know, I'm in my 18th year of summer camping at that time and decided, man, we really have this dream. It's the dream of someday I'm going to retire and get a meat market and a burger joint and just do some really cool Texas barbecue. As I got to talking to my wife, you know, we started talking about it and I met a business broker and he said, man, there's this opportunity out there and I want you to think about it. And that thing just wore through me. So I decided to take the leap and purchase the business.

And did you rename it? It didn't happen to be called King's Texas Smokehouse?

No, I did rename, was called the Nueces Country Smokehouse at first, and a guy had owned it since 2006 and he had done a fantastic job getting a business established on value. And that was really his primary focus. And so as I went through purchasing the business, I knew I had to make a little bit of a change from value to quality to attract people as a destination to Camp Wood, Texas. I mean, people were on a very well known motorcycle route. We're traveling. You know, people travel all through their as a vacation destination. So it's like, okay, I've got to get people to want to drive here, to pull over and do that. And so it's got a multifaceted approach though. So there's multiple ways of revenue. There's a meat market where we sell you Know, top choice meats and anything. Anybody could buy a standard old fashioned meat market where you go up to the counter, you can ask for whatever you want, cut. Then we've also got an establishment in the same building that you can buy burgers, you can buy barbecue and those kind of things there. And then we process. We're a very large hunting area and so we help people process their game as well. Making custom made sausages, those kind of things.

So what I'm hearing is you're a restaurant, you're a deli is what we call. We're kind of the meat and you're a processing game that people caught.

Right. It's all those three facets in one, one under one roof.

Was it. Was the owner doing that before when it was new Oasis?

He was and he was doing. He was doing it and doing that before to a certain extent. It was very limited on the cafe, restaurant portion of it. It was more of a convenience store. And you go into the convenience store and you walk in, they're selling, you know, quick sandwiches, those kind of things. And I'm trying to expand that I took out, I looked and I did analysis in my first few days and said okay. I told my daughter, who's pretty bright, hey kiddo, go out there and I need you to scan every item on the shelf and anything that wasn't selling for a year, in the last year it hasn't sold, move it over to here. And I was able to take the.

Expired, the milk that's been sitting there for a year.

That's clear, put it on sale.

We're talking canned goods, those kind of things. He had grocery aisles. So we pulled those things back. I was able to get a 16 square feet of space out of there of stuff that had sold in over a year. Yes, 1 6. So he had basically four foot, two, four foot aisles of groceries. And then I moved in that place. I put in tables and seating for 20 indoors because prior to that you could come get something on premises and then go outside and eat outside on picnic tables that are located outside the outside of the business. So I changed that to bring some indoor seating to deal with the winters and summers and some of the seasonal aspects of the restaurant and that end of it.

So was the business profitable when you bought it? Was it generating cash flow at least?

It was break even. The owner wasn't taking home a salary, it was just he had made enough to break even. But when I looked at the margins that he had in there and his pricing structure, he had really Set in. He had. He was older, wanted to retire, ready to get out of business, and hadn't. Was coming in from about 10am to noon and leaving each day. So my thought was if I could. If I could run a business with. Or I'm just focusing on where I'm there to take the place of some of the labor. And then I started looking at the margins, and he was $2 and $3 a pound under what somebody could buy at a wholesale packer store, like a box store. And so I thought, if I could raise those margins, I'm going to do great. And I saw 20% of growth in the first month over what he did prior. I was bringing in more customers. But still my, you know, that initial spending in the first month, where you're having to restock and buy all the things that were supposed to be there that weren't quite there. I still came in under negative or in the red. And so that led me to some. Oh, no, some pucker factor. And then as we've gone at the end of April or end of March, I started adjusting and saying, hey, let's look at these numbers, figure out, okay, what are our taps? Because I was. Bank account balancing. I don't know if you've jumped in there and into a new business, but if you buy one, you're thrown in the middle of it. It's like getting hit by a hurricane at low tide. You're getting pulled in there. You need to order this. We're out of this. Buy this. Hey, we're running. You know, you got to come meet this guy. He's important and all these things. Each day I would land in bed at night and utterly and absolutely exhausted. So how do you. So you just start by bank account balancing, sticking your thumb in the air, looking at the screen and going, hey, I think I'm close. We're doing this. Money's rolling in. That quickly caught up.

Did the owner stay with you? I mean, this transition period, or did you buy it and the owner walked away? The former owner.

I bought it and he stayed with me for about 30 days. But he kept his. Me, maintained his schedule. So he would come in for a couple hours a day each of those days, long enough to say, hey, your packaging looks terrible. Hey, you know, you need to meet this guy. You know? And so it was one of those. Where it was. He's a great. He's a nice guy, but he was done, utterly and absolutely done.

Did you keep staff?

I did. I kept the staff. This is the amazing part of it in 20 years of summer staffing, I was, I probably interviewed 10,000 people because you're hiring, you know, 230 or so a year. I search for the rock stars, the absolute best people for the job. And lo and behold, I walk into this business and the staff there, every one of them is a self sufficient, self starting rock star. They have it down. I could not have survived this if it hadn't been for these amazing people that are working for me. The guy in the kitchen, he already is like, hey, you need to order this. This is where we get it. Hey, we're looking for this. This is what we're out of. I've got a few days of this left. And he just has a punch sheet. The market manager, she's just knows every day what you know before I know. So I'm not having to learn those specific aspects of it. I'm having to learn how to balance and figure out, okay, how have I raised prices and money. I'm still losing money. And so it sounds like a thing.

Though, that you changed, you changed the name, but you changed. It sounds like everything else the same. The staff, everything's the same except the pricing. Is that pretty much right?

Right. I increased the margins on the sodas. Like there were some items that we were buying and selling below cost because the prices hadn't been raised probably in eight to 10 years. And so I just adjusted those to normal price and then the margins. And I did it in the grocery through all the drinks and through the, through the meat market. Now the cafe I haven't done anything with. There just hasn't been time to reset the whole menu, retrain, repurpose in the last 50 days. That's what I'm looking at and focusing on now is how do we judge, okay, what's my cost of goods, what's our overhead, what's our ideal price? In restructuring the menu and the offerings.

There, I guess I look at things. Mike is definitely the numbers guy and that's in his wheelhouse for me. I take the big step back and look at your initial question you had. The biggest thing was you wanted to take this and transform this into a destination. And there's. There's nothing I'm hearing right now that automatically makes it a destination. A lot of it is, is based kind of on you and what you want to do and your margins and your stuff. But what's going to get the market excited so that they talk about Kings Texas Steakhouse, that they get in the car and they bring the family and you become the destination. I'm not, I'm not hearing that vision we did.

So I got us online, I changed our logo, got some marketing going on, started some word of mouth traffic, doing promotions on social media sites. And so I started focusing on that which is drawing right now. The, like the truck drivers that are on the highway that we're on are talking up and down the radio. Hey, you got to stop at this place. And so people are coming in saying, hey, I heard about this on my radio. And I said, I'm not advertising on radio. They're like, no, the truck radio people are telling me I have to stop here. Our biker groups are starting to talk more and more because we're on a really popular biker route and I'm getting more of those guys stopping in. I bought some advertising and sent some money into advertising dollars to get on the biker map that's going to be produced this month. And so we're starting to focus and target out that direction, if that's what you're looking for.

Well, let me ask you a question. I don't know if that's going to get us to where we want to go with the destination location, but I wanted to get some brass Tac numbers real quick. Stephen, are you willing to share with us? What'd you buy it for? How much debt do you have now that we got pay off? And what are you looking to generate, as in income for yourself from this business? Can you share numbers like that?

Yeah, I bought it right at about $500,000, lock, stock and barrel. Sorry, I forget I'm getting. Tell me the rest of the questions.

Oh, so you bought for 500. How much debt do you, do you have that you need to pay back.

Of that? It's about 486,000 is what I need to pay back.

Okay, and how'd you get that money? Is that from a bank or.

Right from a bank. I got an SBA loan for the, for the loan.

Perfect.

And then I've got some. I've got a couple partners that are in a very small and small increments of equity.

Okay, got it. And then what kind of income do you want to be taking home from this for yourself?

Like, what's a good income right now I've pulled myself down. I've got a partner agreement that says we basically set it in, hey, when the business is healthy, then I could take about $3,000 a month. When we get to a certain marker in the account, when we get to 40 or $50,000 in the operating account, then I can move that up to 65 as we get healthy. Right now we're trending, but if we get below 20,000 in the operating account, then I need to go down and stop taking a salary altogether. I'm actively trying to avoid that. Mark. We started with about $34,000 in the bank as of today before deposits from the weekend, I'm sitting at about 22 and so I should be able to move up into about 25 after the weekend deposit. So I'm working my way back to the end of, end of April trying to get back into, you know, break even about 30,000 where I started the month.

Okay, yeah, these numbers help a lot because now I, now I know what we're dealing with.

Mike likes the numbers, I like the numbers.

And the last thing is what's the annual income of the business like Historically, before you bought this was the last year of numbers, revenue wise.

424 in gross revenue.

424 gross revenue. Okay. So we need to improve this. We need to get, we need to get that 6,500amonth in your pocket. Let me ask you this. What do you think is the biggest mover that will actually make that happen for you? Is it, is it becoming a destination location?

I think our plan for the destination location I'm working on figuring out, and this is where I'm struggling today is I need to move the cafe to the next level, which we're working on one little fryer and they're doing custom chips and so they, they're doing one order at a time. I' narrowed down and got really productive and lean in the kitchen, they were doing multiple steps and trying to do that. But it's that point of where do you invest the money in the new fryers that you don't have in hopes that it's going to generate the revenue? Or do you just try to get more and more lean with what you're already doing?

I gotcha.

So that's where we're, that's where we're looking now.

Question. If you were, if you were starting the restaurant from scratch, it was completely empty, would you still have groceries in there?

That's a no.

Yeah, good question.

It sounds like some of the stuff you're still doing is because it was held over from the previous and even with the employee. And it's great. You have really good, engaged, self sufficient employees. The downside is that sometimes they're probably stuck in the old ways of thinking, the old ways of running the business. And if we're if we're looking purely from a numbers perspective, which I know, profit first. It wasn't making money, it was breaking even. So the initial business model, there was, there was a problem, there was a flaw. So I like to break stuff a little bit and figure out like if you truly, if you're, if you want to take it from where it is now to a destination and you want the bikers and everyone eating there, then maybe the idea is let's clear out all. Let's sell all the grocery stuff, let's get rid of that and let's double down and become the restaurant, the cafe, the fryer. Have food item. That is your thing, you're known for whatever that creative thing is. I mean, I'm just kind of playing.

Is that resonating with you, Steven?

Yeah, it sounds like a great idea. The groceries are sort of a holdover of what the people are there. But in the last year there's been a Dollar General type of store that moved in up the street. So that market, that place is really slow. The meat market still makes great revenue. People come in. We're the only place to get meat in the town. And so I'm getting my locals and then we're very hunter oriented, biker oriented, people camping out and RVing. They come there and they know to come get steak. So I'd like to hold on to the meat part of it and because it's, it adds to the whole atmosphere. Hey man, I'm going to go to the butcher shop and when they've got great barbecue and they've got all kinds of stuff going on, but I think, yeah, we narrowing down those aisles and then I'm not spending that money or like multiple inventory to seat more people.

Yeah, you could grab.

Yeah. And what I sense is an incongruency. I saw King's Texas Smokehouse. I'm like, oh man, great barbecue, great smoke. Oh, I got my Campbell soup there.

Yeah, it does.

Incongruency for me. How much space does your convenience store take up in your building?

I've still got two, basically 16 foot, two rows that are four foot long, double sided with end caps that sit right as you walk in the door. And so I'm losing some customer traffic by them opening, opening the door. They see those, they've shut the door in the past. I'm also getting, right now we're retail only on alcohol and being retail only, people want to come. They were in Texas, they want to come. They want to get a great slab of ribs and they want to have A beer. So I've applied for the licenser to have on site sales in beer and bring in music and entertainment on the weekends and those kind of things. So, yeah, I think that's great.

You're not gonna have that atmosphere if you have two rows of convenience store, you know, Campbell's soup.

Yeah.

Kelsey made a. What was that?

Yeah. People are turning away because it's incongruent with what they went there for, what they thought it was going to be.

Yeah. That convenience store, maybe that's making some money for you at least on a revenue side. How much revenue do you generate from selling, you know, the convenience items?

Do you know, I don't have a good idea. I think most of it because the. The way the point of sale system is worked in, that's tied in with some of the drinks that we would. That we would keep on some of the fresh. Now the fresh produce is moving, it's the dry goods. But I don't have a real aspect because it's all tied in. People come by a steak, they can. Then they go to. Right next door is a deli counter that is already holding all our different varieties of sausages and cured links and all the stuff that, you know, that people are really. You make this in house and, oh, this is great. You make boudin and those things that are culturally in our. Around that people are like, oh, man, I didn't know I can have that here. Along with that, we're selling potatoes and onions and just things that we already have in the restaurant. We might as well put a few extra out. Those that sell retail actually pay for my cases back behind for the restaurant and the number that I sell there. But I think that it's the Campbell soup and the, you know, the lighter fluid and toilet bowl.

That doesn't feel like a welcoming. It doesn't sound like a place you want to sit and hang out with friends for a couple hours.

It's definitely not a destination.

It sounds like you grab a slice of pizza. See, I'm from New York. You grab a slice of pizza and you're sitting.

So, Ryan, let me set the stage for you. So, Ryan, you have a store. This is Steven's place. You have no more money to spend or very little to spend. And you have this situation where you have a meat counter, you have the convenience store and the barbecue, and you want to be a destination location. There it is. What do you do? How do you step into this? We can all say, oh, I'd have a beautiful facility, but you can't afford to do it. What do you do at this point?

Well, first I sell out all the inventory. I possibly all that stuff sitting there. Step one, I would say, because you already spent the money on it, whatever it is, whatever you have to do on social media, on your local press, go to them and say, hey, we're gonna really like, make it a. Make it an event. Hey, we are becoming the premier steakhouse in the area. And in order to do that, we're blowing all the stuff out. Come for 48 hours, only 50% off all of our canned goods and items and lighter fluid and all that stuff. Get some cash to come in, you know, sell, even sell the fixtures. I would also, again, it's atmosphere and there's a lot of things you. I noticed with some of the language you're taking, a lot of the stuff you're doing and decisions you're making based on. And I don't mean this to be rude, a little bit of a selfish perspective. You're like, well, we already have onions from the restaurant, so we may as well sell them in the deli counter. But yes and no, I get it from a profit perspective, but from an environment perspective, that's a different feel than a destination. So you always have to be aware of what is our vision. Why are people gonna come off the bike route and sit and enjoy with us. And if it feels like a deli, they might not want to. And I'm not saying you can't sell meats, and maybe it is, but maybe it's a little bit more secret to kind of get it. It's not a meat market, it's a restaurant. And oh, did you know it's. I'd make it more of a thing. Like we could, you know, hey, if you're interested in buying the meat, we can sell it, but that's not our thing because that's probably not where. I don't know what your. How much profit you're making from that stuff, but that's what I would do. I would sell everything I possibly could and I would put that back in new seating to put more people in the restaurant and have a huge blowout event, get hire whatever local band you have to get there, make it like, have a good month of build up, get everyone in town talking about this, invite the local press, the papers, people from all the different towns, and have a grand reopening celebration. Because it sounds like you just kind of took the key and turned over and made some changes and all you did was kind of raise the price of soda, and people might even be a little annoyed. Let's, like, go all in with it.

Yeah. What do you think about that, Stephen? That's a lot.

Yeah, that's a great idea. I think it's one of those that we could look at it.

We're not looking at it. We're doing it.

We're doing it. Refocus. Refocus. And try to get refocused to get those grocery lines.

It's not even refocusing. It's focused. Because you, You've said, I'm only taking your words. You've said from the beginning, you want a destination. You want this to be the place you want people to come in. And the business before was not making money. Those are the facts. So everything we have to do has to be on that. And things like even some of the language are saying, well, I've done some marketing and we're thinking about doing this. Like, you have to. This is your livelihood, and you got a lot of money on the line. Like, we got to feel that Stephen King energy. You got to go all in and say, this is it. I'm giving it everything I have. I don't care if I have to post on, you know, Instagram or Facebook, wherever they are, 20 times a day, and calling everyone and getting on those bike routes and standing outside with a sign saying come in for a free burger just to try it.

But Stephen, isn't. It isn't the flip side, you know, you do have a lot of money in the line. Like Ryan said, this is. This is your life's fortune. This is an all in bet. If you make the wrong move, you're done. What are you feeling?

Right?

No, that's, that's, that's the, that's the thing that haunts you every day, is that entire life savings. Your family, you know, the move the family is, is. Is all in. We moved out into a new home and a rental from a place where we've been very solid for a very long time. All the stability is gone. And so it's one of those of, we're going to do whatever it takes to get this, you know, get it rocking and make this happen.

But you do whatever it takes. But at the same time, if you make an all in bet and you make the wrong move, you're done, man. So I sense you must be hesitant, right? You must be like, maybe the convenience store needs to stay.

Well, you know, it's one of those where I know in the back of your mind, I've already Pulled it down. I pulled it in half and introduced new tables. And the thing we are to the constant is for the camp, the Campwood community is. We're. We're there providing their meat. They're. They're coming in for their lunch. It's their diner, their deli. There's not. There's a couple other restaurants there. I think we're the nicest place in the area by far, for a long. From a long distance away. And then it's creating that destination fear where people are going to come there. Camp Wood's been able to. It's break even. It's getting those destination customers to where they're coming out, I think is going to make the big difference. I think. Yeah, you're right. Opening the door and seeing those. Those two little aisles, as small as they are, really gives them a different feel than what it would. It'd be like putting gas pumps in at a restaurant that's opposite of what we want. We had talked originally and talked about, well, maybe we could put gas pumps in. That's not who we are. And so it's getting focused and really putting that focus up of who we are. I think that's great information.

Ryan, thinking about the destination. Stevie says this over and over. I want to be a destination. Is there a way to kind of prove that the destination concept works without him building a destination location?

Well, I don't know if he has to build it. I would say just. Just kind of work with what you got.

Yeah.

Because it doesn't sound like the groceries were really providing anything to the business anyway.

Oh, so I understand that.

Yeah. So you're saying, can you.

Is there something he can do? I don't know, some event. I heard about you with the inventory. You're like, make it into an event, which I think is genius. That's a great way. It's a celebration as opposed to a loss. Yeah. I'm wondering now, how do we pack that room at least one or two times with people that aren't the people just coming through town, the people that went out of their way to get there. How do I test that or prove that out?

It's. It's challenge. You mean it's hard. It's hard because you're with a restaurant. You either do it or you don't. I mean, you could. You could have a soft launch. But the thing is, the restaurant's already been open for a few months, so it's hard to kind of go back in time. I mean, you could say, hey, we're doing this new thing, come for this pre opening special and then you have the party and then you test the food and you see how people are enjoying it. But I mean, I don't recommend opening up a satellite location to do a test party.

So I wonder if he can get, you know, if he wants to be known for his smoked items, his barbecue and stuff. I wonder if he have a contest and have, you know, the town's best a smoke off basically around there. Because I know we're trying to feature his food, but that's gonna take a lot of time to develop. I wonder if he has this big smoke off. You bring your family and friends, we have this big contest and then you're promoting the restaurant and whatever the winner is, that's the recipe that we're gonna use.

Yeah. Or even if it's just like. Yeah, like a certain. A sauce or a rub or whatever it is you do down there. And then you say the winner. We're gonna feature it. We're gonna feature it for at least a month or whatever. Right. And we're gonna name it after you.

You name it after you. Yeah.

And then Bruce Lee's Rub. Bruce Lee's rub. Bruce's bacon rub. Yeah. But then that family first will be going to your restaurant for the rest of their lives. They're going to tell everyone they know about it as well. And it is a good way to. And you'll get some free publicity in press too.

Yeah, yeah. Stephen, what about something like that? Does that resonate with you?

Those are awesome ideas. I think that we've got some events getting the on site sales for alcohol. I think if I could pair it up with that on site sales for alcohol. People are wanting that. They're coming by asking every day. Get asked, hey, can I have a beer with this? No, not allowed. So I think we paired that with, hey, now we really do are bringing the craft beers. We're bringing the beers. We've got great barbecue. We create an event to go around it and something, you know, the summer months are right around the corner where people are going to be traveling into our area. So if I can tie it into one of those, you know, that summer kickoff event and do something with. It's a big event in that way and certainly have room on the menu to name some items at this point where we still need to revamp the menu. We're doing some things that have been done consistently there for a long time. And I've got to totally rework the menu to where it's my food. And not just a continuation of when.

You get the beer. Make that a big thing. And have a beer tasting night, too.

Yeah.

Let people try the different.

Oh, that'd be great.

Yeah. When it comes to the bikers and the people that do frequent your place, do you notice any tendencies around them of things they like to do? For example, do the bikers show up and they actually hang out in the parking lot and they're all talking about each other's bikes? Do the truckers, you know, they're just looking to use the bathroom and shower up because they're on a long haul? Do you see any tendencies like that?

I do. The biker groups want to come in. Like this weekend we had the Iron horse clan, the great bunch of guys and gals come in. They sat, they had, did photographs. They lined their motorcycles all up in front of the business, took pictures with us, and really just came alongside us there. And then the truck drivers, though, they want a place where they can sit down, they can relax, they can have a good lunch that's going to be served quick enough for them to get back on the road. And so we're, you know, trying to meet. We've got two. Two groups that come in. It's either the destination, we're here. There's no. The. No budget destination. We're here. We're on vacation. We're just gonna. We're gonna have a great time. We're gonna relax and spend as much time. And then I've got our commuters that are traveling. They want to get in, get and go. Yeah.

What do you do here? I got two different types of customers. I got one that wants to hang out, show off bikes and take pictures. I want another guy that wants to blaze in, get his food, and get back on road and haul some stuff. What do you do?

Yeah, well, at minimum, at least have an express menu for the. For the locals.

Okay.

Or for people who are more in a hurry, it is. Look, with a restaurant or any business, when you're trying to reach multiple markets, it's a challenge because you're trying to, you know, are you attracting. It sounds like you're not really going for families, right? Is it safe to say that.

It depends on the season.

So you get truckers?

Yeah, we've got them all. The biker market is limited. That's only on weekends. It's our families coming during the week. We're an rv, river people, floating the river and doing family vacations.

Do the truckers come through on weekends, too, or is the truckers Monday through Friday.

Predominantly Monday through Monday through Friday.

So if you. Yeah, there's. There's definitely an opportunity I would. So just to give an example of. In our town, there's a coffee. I live in New Canyon, Connecticut. There's a coffee shop called Zoombox and a couple times a year they host this thing called caffeine and carburetors. They just had it this Sunday and they have hundreds and hundreds of people come with their really cool cars, whether it's Lamborghinis or a 56 Chevy like all these. And they close down the whole town and they line up and everyone just walks around and thousands of people come in torn town to experience it. And it's all sponsored by this coffee shop. Yeah, if you can sponsor. Maybe it's once or twice a year the, the something.

The.

The burger and bike thing and. And spread the word through the biker community. Let thousands of bikers come and all line up the thing and they all walk around and take pictures of their bikes. Just an event. I'm just thinking. I like to think event wise.

I like that. I like events.

That's great for destination. Destination too. You're building that community.

I like that. I like the fact that he's got two different markets. But it's very. Sounds like it's very defined. He's got a Monday through Friday. I wonder if he can retool the restaurant in a way that it can service both markets, which is typically something I don't recommend. But Monday through Friday can he have this ultra convenient where it's like, you know, truckers are more than usually says truckers welcome. Park in the back. I want truckers, you know, loved families. Park in the back. Or you know, and then can you have it where truckers. There's a. Maybe this is too expensive. A billboard 50 miles out saying radio. You know, don't get a cell phone but their truck or radio get on their radio channel and say Channel 9 radio in your order. We'll have it waiting for you when you arrive. Just really kind of express oriented. Then I wonder if you can retool Friday night. You turn this thing over and now it's like bikers and beer and. Well, hopefully not beer. Hopefully burgers. Bikers and burgers.

Bikers and burgers.

Yeah. And just a little bit of moderate drinking. But I wonder if you can retool it now. And now it's this chill out place. What do you think?

Well, I think we have, we have that ability because some of the items take longer. You know, we Offer. There's some items that are only offered on the weekends when we're getting more traffic and more things where people can come in. During the week, it's mostly barbecue sandwiches, chopped beef, pulled pork, and things that they can get in and get out. Then on the weekends is when we pull out full racks of ribs and they can sit and have full racks with the family, you know, and really extend that menu. And so we're doing a little bit of that now, but it's not marketed that way real well.

I was gonna say the market needs to know and whatever you're doing to market to them and all the messaging you're putting out, whatever channels and platforms, they need to be really aware. And you need, you know, coming up with creative names call, you know, and really explaining and telling the story. Hey, this is meant on the weekends from. From, you know, three to seven during the week or something. Bring your family and kids under 12ft free and talking about making it, catering to those unique things. But they have to know about it.

I think with another opportunity is like these biker clubs. Like, he said he had the Iron Horse. I can't remember what the name was.

Iron Clan.

Iron Clan. But there. There is a. There's someone that's the president of that club or the leader or whatever the title is, but that's the influencer. He can just reach out to one person and influence, you know, 20, 50, 100 people to come in. Yeah, why don't we do this? Believe it or not, we're blazing through. We got to wrap things up. Why don't we do our final tip for Steven so he can make this business permanently profitable? I'll go first. So you guys have a little time to think, because I'm springing upon you now. I got to make something up, too. Now. I think the opportunity is in narrowing down services, and it's the scariest thing that anyone faces. So here's what I suggest. Don't jettison everything in hopes that one thing will work. Actually devote to that one thing and then jettison the stuff afterwards. Meaning that convenience store. I don't like it. I think it's. But if you shut it down, your focus is on losing. I think really ramp up the activity, the bikes and burgers, and start, you know, removing the stuff. That's not working as a second step. I find most entrepreneurs actually can be more successful than doing that, even though the right move is to get rid of stuff that's not working well. Kels, you go. And then Ryan, our host, will wrap Us up.

I think, in general, just staying integral to your initial vision and what you think will bring you joy. So my takeaway is that creating this destination, creating this atmosphere and environment for you to have music and fun is going to bring you more sustainable business in the long run for you, because I think you're going to enjoy it. Plus, I think you're thinking a little bit more as an employee, less as an entrepreneur, in that you're. You're following the track that was laid out in front of you rather than really designing what you want.

And Ryan, give us a rapping thought. Make it profitable here, baby.

I'll make it profitable. And Kelsey's 100% right. It's. You're focusing in your business, not on your business. So we need. You're not a restaurant owner. You're a marketer who happens to own a restaurant. And we just got to put. We just got to put the marketing hat on. And I think you have to go, like, just love this restaurant, love this concept, and everyone has to feel your love. And believe me, I know right now you're. You're nervous, you're struggling, you're like, everything's kind of, oh, my God, am I gonna make it? You have to just say, I friggin got this and give it everything you've got, because I'm just not feeling that. I know you're nervous and scared, but we just gotta go. And I know what Mike says with jettison it and take your time. And if you want to go that route, go that route. You have to go with what feels comfortable for you. But whatever you do, you gotta give it everything you got and focus on entirely on the customers, whether the bikers, the truck drivers, the families, or having all these different segments like that.

Stephen, any final words you want to say before we let you go?

No. Thank you very much and thanks for the time. It's awesome. And I think these are great ideas. I think the thing I take away is that think like an entrepreneur, not like an employee. And that's been a real struggle. After being an employee for so long and then going after that market and putting on that marketing hat where I'm spending my time, doing a lot of, you know, jumping in there, rolling my sleeves up with the employees, mopping floors and sweeping and stuff, I think that my time could be best spent trying to figure out, okay, who's my audience? Figure out where they are and focus on them. So those are great. I love it.

Your job is to drive this business forward.

Yeah. And we empathize with you. We're all entrepreneurs here. We're safe. We're safely behind microphones right now. Not running your business.

Right.

But we get it because we've all done it. It is scary, but it takes an all in bet on something. So. And you know what? Start by taking your profit first to start doing that and maybe it'll reveal.

Itself to you today and then maybe you could have the next profit fest. Is that what you think?

Yeah. Yeah.

Right In Camp Wood, Texas.

Cool. Stephen, where can our listeners come by, what's the website and perhaps even your address so they can swing by and check you out.

It's kingstexsmokehouse.com we're online, we're also on Facebook. And then we are located at Kings Texas Smokehouse. It's 1029 South Highway 55 in Campwood, Texas.

Alright, so anyone, we got a lot of truckers that listen to the show. So any truckers, anyone driving through camp Wood Highway 55, you got your stop. It's Kings Texas Smokehouse. And we'll have the link on our website. Stephen, thanks for joining us today.

Thank you, Stephen.

Thank you, Stephen. And best of luck.

Thanks so much, guys. I appreciate it. Thank you.

All right, you know what?

I love Kings.

First a punch. You know what? That was a little distorted. You know what I love is that Stephen has the courage to come on and just say this is the reality. Most people wouldn't have the courage. Most people wouldn't say their numbers. They would just. Yeah.

And I also think it's critical that he wants help. He, he understands that there's a need for help and is willing to ask for it. Yeah, I know it sounds really simple, but there's a lot of entrepreneurs that don't, wouldn't be willing to do that.

Right. Because I think asking for help is seen as a weakness.

Right. And it's, it is, believe me. I know it's scary. It is, it is really scary. Especially with, you know, a restaurant and you have the overhead and the staff and you know, you have the 400 something in debt. Like there's, there's a lot at stake.

Yeah.

But I just, I think he's, he's been suffering from that. It's a lot entrepreneurs that they, they focus on the little thing and they're in there and they're not driving the business forward. And you got, you got to market.

You got to market it. You know, your suggestion I think is 100% on you guys. That convenience store.

I know what you're.

The thing Is, I bet you if we pushed him to do that, he would never do. I'm not saying he wouldn't do, but most entrepreneurs will never do it. And they get stuck in the. I can't. And they stay paralyzed. So I found. I used to coach the same way. Just get rid of that store. It's so obvious. I found. No, let's just find what's working and build it. Build it, build it. And then they'll naturally go by attrition.

Yeah, yeah. And I, you know, I'm saying, no, I'm 100% with you on that. I guess my thought is I know the exact type of restaurant he's talking about. And when you walk in and you see stick a fork in things, you just. You're not going to want to hang out.

And it's a different experience.

I just feel like that's the biggest barrier because you can't have. And I know you said, like, let's build the restaurants around it, all the stuff, but I feel like that is such a barrier. But I agree. But if you say get rid of it, then you immediately, well, I can't. You fight.

Right, right, right. It's a fight. But. And you are right. We got to get rid of that. But I think he's got to discover that for himself.

But I love the idea of having a party. And, you know, it's. It's. I feel like it's forming a loyalty with your customers, too, because they're part of the excitement experience. They're part of building the new establishment. And I like that.

Right. And I think every business, online and offline business, should have some type of launch. I mean, think about your books. Clockwork, La Roche. It's like you're not just putting it out to say, oh, by the way, my book's out now. Like, you're launching it.

Oh, yeah.

Momentum. And, you know, people buy business, they take the keys, they just change the name, raise the price of soda, like, all right now. But there's no. And there's no momentum. There's no story. They're not getting people excited about it.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So any takeaways from Steven's story that you can relate to or anything you want to share before we wrap things up here?

I just think, in general, it takes a lot of courage to be an entrepreneur. It takes a lot of courage to leave a comfortable life behind and do something new because of a vision that you've had for a long time.

I think we have to remember, no matter what business we're in. Doesn't matter what it is. We are. You're not a restaurateur. You're not an accountant. You're a marketer who owns a restaurant. You're a marketer who happens to do account.

Yeah.

And the marketing has to come first. Otherwise you're not gonna have any customers or clients.

I love it. To me it was, it was that he has the courage. I think a lot of people don't have. He made an all in bet and he's backed by his family. Right. He says wife support. They've moved. Most the world wouldn't do this, especially after having established career. He's a camp counselor. He knows how to run camps. He's done it for 18 years. He made a lifestyle that income that supported their lifestyle. Everyone's happy. You know, he did what most people dream about but never do. So my hat's off to him.

Right. And I should have told him too. If you're a camp director, you're. He's. He's got to have a good personality and be able to leverage the crap. Gotta use that.

Yeah, yeah.

And he's stuck behind a counter.

Yeah, yeah.

Use it. Get out there and really build that.

Yeah. That may be his, his, his ultimate. Yeah. Differentiator. Is that, that capability?

Right.

All right. Talking about differentiator. We gotta get out of here. Doesn't even make sense. But that's a horrible. That was a horrible bridge differentiator. Let's wrap the show like, like a.

Tree and get out of here.

Everybody leave us a comment and ratings on iTunes, Stitcher, etc. Or any podcaster.

Yeah. And just. We want your honest ratings as long as it's five star now. I mean, listen, rate is how you think we deserve to be rated. But what it does is it spreads the word. So we want honest ratings and, and tell your friends to subscribe to the show. You know, have them check it out, see what their feedback is. Then you have a party, a profit curse, dude. Have a profit first podcast party.

Here's pictures. Or invite us up.

Yeah.

You get in the car, you and your buddies, wherever you are in the world, you drive to Campwood, Texas, right? The whole way down, except for the driver, everyone's boozing it up. Drinking party. You're laughing at the shows. You're learning. By the time you get to Campwood, you are so freaking hungry, you just eat everything.

And you and I are going to fit in with the thousands of bikers like a glove.

I love it. Hey, I like a bagel with Some.

Schmear you got lot you don't have.

Locks.

Women.

Where's the gefilter?

I love capers. All right. And also, you know, while you're driving down to Campwood, Texas, I would like you to check out propfirstprofessionals.com you can do on your mobile phone. Now we have that innovation. You can go to propfirstprofessionals.com on your smartphone or your flip phone. Supposedly, it's now activated for flip phones, too. Go to our website. Navigate.

I have a rotary phone.

Does it still work?

Yes, according to Mike, it does.

It does. It does. Scroll through and go to the very top where it says find one. And then you click on that button and then fill out the form. And we will hook you up with a profit first professional, a coach who's certified in driving profitability in any type of business, including a restaurant in Campo, Texas, or anywhere in the world. We can drive your profit. You just got to sign up by going to profit first professionals.com and click on find one. Okay. Okay. All right, guys, that's it. We're good.

We are good.

Ryan, it's your last episode. It was a joy having you, man.

Oh, I might be coming back.

I want you to come back.

I can't ask myself to come back. But if I'm invited.

No, you are invited. I'm excited to invite here. Are you willing to come back?

You had me at come back. I'm in.

All right. Are you. Are we able to. When's the Next time recording?

May 10th.

All right, well, we'll work the dates out with you. We'll make sure it happens. Dude, you've been awesome. Thanks for the tip.

Thank you.

All right, see you all later.

Bye, everybody.

Bye.

Bye.

It's a long bridge. We're going all the way to the end, baby.

Longest outro ever.

I know. Oh, seriously? Never.

See at the smoke house.

Yeah.

Sam.