Episode 217: Effective Publicity with Jason Feifer

Typically my family, if they need something and it's usually like my Amazon password or Netflix, something like that. Yeah. In terms of work stuff, I have a hard time when we work with subcontractors, say yeah, right. And it makes me nervous because once it's in their hands and they work with a different company and you know what I mean? Like that kind of.

Yeah. So we have a guy coming to our house to do some handiwork, right?

Yeah.

And the same thing, like the first visit, I make sure everyone is there and just get a sense for him. Seems very trustworthy, loved experience. Now the next time he's going, coming over, we happen to have a vacation scheduled, but that's the only time he can come.

Yeah.

So now we don't have a. I don't know if I should be saying something, but we don't have a alarm system. But we do have a code to enter the house which unlocks and locks it. And now make sure I give it to him. But then do I reprogram? I don't know, there's just all this confusion.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you can reprogram it afterwards.

Maybe that's what I should do. But then I have to tell everyone the new password isn't 1, 2, 3 anymore. Now it's 4 or 5 secs.

It's worth it for peace of mind.

Yeah, that's true.

I mean, they learned it the first time, they'll learn it a second time.

Hey, before we kick things off, I want to talk about Right Networks. Is that cool?

Yeah.

Okay, then you. Then when I'm done with Right Networks, let's try to be professional here. And you kick us right into it. Okay, let's see if this works. Right Networks helps put profit first. Professionals like you. Now here's the deal. I'm reading the wrong copy. That's. That's like the.

Anthony, why don't you try to be professional? Mike.

Yeah. Right here is the right copy. Right Networks gets your current accounting based desktop and legacy applications into the cloud so it's easier and more secure to share sensitive documents and data with your clients. This new flexibility allows you to cost effectively grow your business and even reach new geographies. Right Networks knows your reputation is on the line. So why not go with a solution that is backed by Intuit? That's right. You can web enable all of your applications in a second. All you have to do is pick up the phone, call 1-800. No, it's not 1-800-it's 1-888-210-0237-888-2100237. Say profit first when you call them. 10% off. Kels.

Welcome, everybody. You're listening to the Profit first podcast.

Oh, yes. There we go. There we go. It's the.

And.

All right, so you guys say hi. Yeah.

Everybody, I'm your co host, Kelsey A.

And I'm Mike McCallowitz, the host of the show you are listening to. We gotta change the script from the beginning. It loses his energy. I gotta change it. You are listening to the Profit first podcast. This is a show where we explore all elements of profitability. If you don't know about us and you don't know about me, I am the author of Private first and a brand new book for Clockwork. It's out there, so make sure you Google that. It's at Amazon, Barnes Nobles and your favorite bookstore. Should that be Amazon or Barnes Nobles? And today we'll be talking about some cool stuff about profitability. That's what we dedicate the show to, after all, specifically how you can use press to improve your profitability.

All right, and you can find us on itunes, Stitcher, Google play, TuneIn radio, profitfirstpodcast.com or really any podcatcher anywhere.

What's the new one you announced last week?

Cast box.

Cast box. You know, you said a few weeks back, too, is that you had, like a little scare. You thought there was a murder.

Yeah.

Happening. And then you realized, no, it was really a horse that walked up to your car.

Those horses make screaming noises.

And then you're like, oh, my God. I. I moved to a rural part of Pennsylvania. I'm about to get murdered. Oh, no, I'm safe. It's a horse that's climbing over my car.

Yeah.

And you're like, now I'm dreaming. But the noise continued on and. And then you identified. What was that?

It was a fox.

Right. Okay, it was a fox. So here's what I did, Kelsey. For the last month, I've been researching, I mean, for. In a short amount of time, different sounds. And I thought this would help when you're in Pennsylvania, to recognize what these sounds are.

Oh, I appreciate that.

Now, as I compile this, I realized there's also zoos in Pennsylvania. So this isn't just indigenous animals to your area. This could be any animal that escapes from a zoo. And I want you to know what it is. So I'm gonna play some of the sounds and I want you to identify the animal that does this. Okay?

Okay.

Okay. Any animal on the planet Here it is. First one.

Pretty sure I'll be really bad at this. Oh, is that like a panther?

Yes. Yes, you are. One for one. All right, take a record here. One for one. All right, next one a little harder.

So some kind of bird?

No, I'm gonna play one more time.

Some kind of monkey.

Some kind of what?

Monkey.

You're in the category now. You get one more guess. This is three guesses. So it is some kind of monkey.

To give me one orangutan.

No, it's not an orangutan. I was very close, though. He really has the pigment. A pigment challenge. No, he's a baboon.

So I. I've seen baboons in real life. You said monkey.

You said monkeys are not nice.

They aren't. They are. One stole my water bottle.

You know why they're so vicious?

Why?

Because they have a pigment issue. All right, a couple more. This one's gonna be a tough one. Now, before you answer, this is warbler. Before you answer, this is indigenous to where you live, okay? Northeast. This animal.

Is it a bird?

No.

It's a frog.

No. One more question. They're in your garbage can. That's the end. They like to go into your garbage can. And they wear masks.

What do you mean? They wear math.

Time's running out. It's a raccoon. Oh, okay, I got one more for. Two more for you. Two more for you. Last. Not indigenous, I think even to the United States. But it could be in a zoo. Not. We expect. Time's running out. Just make a guess. Time's running out.

Own bird?

No.

Wolf?

No. Dude, this will kill you. It's a zebra. All right. Oh, no way. Last but certainly not least, that is in Pennsylvania all the time. All over Pennsylvania.

It's a woman being murdered.

What?

A woman being murdered.

Yes, it is screaming. All right, so you were two for seven or whatever it was. Good job. And that was not so fun. That was actually okay. That's okay, right?

I mean, it was fun for me.

That was fun for you. Okay, Kelsey, before we dig into the show, I do want to thank our corporate partners, make the show a reality. So a big shout out to our corporate partners. I don't even know who it is anymore.

Nextiva.

Where's my script? Okay, nextiva. Who else?

Receipt Bank.

Okay. Anyone else? And right networks.

And right networks.

Okay, so thanks to right networks. Next Step and Receipt Bank. We'll give you more details on those folks in a little bit. Oh, do we have a member? Shout out.

Yeah, we have A member.

A member, a listener. Shout out. Right?

Yeah.

These are people that actually listen to this garbage. All right. Hey, now I know I'm being a little bit down on my Myself.

Yeah.

All right. What is me anymore?

Okay, so this one comes from John west. Says, I bought this just thinking that it would be a different way of squeezing more profit out of my company. What it actually is is not that at all. It truly is a business transformation, not just some tips. It took me a few days to really hammer it out. But both our companies are profit first now. And profit is a reality here now, not just something we hoped to see after the bills are paid each month. This approach is pragmatic, easy to set up. It's up to you how hard it is to follow through. And eye opening. I firmly have control over every aspect of my company's finances like never before. I, a confirmed coal freak, just asked my wife am so pleased with what this book has done to give me the ultimate vision into how our companies make and lose money for our consulting firm. It makes forecasting simpler, our shortfalls more glaring, and lets you sleep much better at night.

Wow. That was. John. Thank you so much, John. Thank you for that. We want to know your story. If you're using profit first, how's it impacting your business? You know how you cleared your throat as you were doing that? I had breakfast with my parents this morning. You know, they're quite elderly and some of the stuff I filmed them during my last book, like my father. My dad critiquing my book. I'm like, dad, I come over twice a week. He's like, do you? So today I get there and my mom's like a little frog in my throat and she's like, do you know how to clear? I do not want to hear. And just starts telling me the medical application for clearing phlegm. It's like, do you really have to tell me this stuff, Mom?

Over breakfast? Over breakfast.

Eat up. Here's some oatmeal.

I think it makes you extra Flemmy.

Exactly.

Oh, my God.

All right, Kelsey. Is that all I got on that? Right? I'm reading through my script here. Is there anything else? We thanked our corporate partners. We'll talk about them in a little bit. And at the end of the show, by the way, when we finish our interview, we're going to share the insights that we learned from our guest, Jason Pfeiffer. And we're going to want to learn what you learned too, in our comments. So let's get to the show at hand. His name is Jason Pfeiffer and he is the editor in chief of Entrepreneur magazine and hosts two podcasts, Problem Solvers, which is about entrepreneurs solving unexpected problems in their business, and Pessimists Archive, a history of unfounded fears of technology. Interesting. He has been an editor at Men's Health, Fast Company, Maxim, and Boston Magazine, has written about business and technology for the Washington Post, Slate New York and others. A novel he co wrote with his wife called Mr. Nice Guy will be coming out this October 2018 from St. Martin's Press. Jason lives in Brooklyn. You know, if you want to hear about how to drive profitability to your. The press, this is definitely the guy that knows. But one thing you don't know about Jason, he has no sense of smell.

Yeah, that's crazy.

Pretty crazy. Jason, welcome to our show.

Hey, thanks a lot for having me. That was a goat at the very end there, right? That was a screaming goat.

So you know what? I was trying to get the screaming goat, but I couldn't find it on MP3. But it is indistinguishable between a human voice and a goat. But that was a woman screaming.

That's crazy.

Yeah. You know your goats, Jason.

You don't get a lot of them in Brooklyn, but the Internet brings them to me.

So what? Clearly, you've been an editor in chief and in a significant capacity as an editor in so many different places. What brought you to Entrepreneur Magazine?

Oh, I mean, you know, what brought me, what brought me to Entrepreneur Magazine was that I was ready to leave Maxim, to be frankly, honest with you. But, but what? I, you know, I've always thought of my career as a skill set seeking enterprise. Like, I've gone to places, not necessarily, to be honest with you, because the subject matter interested me, but because the, the, the experience interested me. I wanted to learn things. I wanted to learn. Like when I went to Men's Health, I didn't care about health. I cared about learning how to do a particular kind of editing called Front a book. I went to Fast Company not because I cared about business, to be honest, but because I cared about long form editing. And I wanted to learn that there. I had a really, I've had like a, like a change, like a career change at Entrepreneur, because while I showed up originally as executive editor, which is number two at the magazine, I showed up because I wanted to learn how to like, shape a magazine, like be the person whose job it is to actually direct a magazine. But what I came to find is that I just I love entrepreneurs. I love everything they stand for. I love the community and the environment. And I discovered that I had really all along been building my, my own career as an entrepreneur, thinking, you know, I define entrepreneurs as people who make things happen for themselves, who take risks, who, who take chances, who, who really are, are like methodical about building something for themselves. And that is what I had done throughout my career. I just hadn't thought of it in a. Using that word. And it's changed everything. I mean, it's just, it's just now I spend all day, every day talking to entrepreneurs and learning from them and applying it to my own life and, and, and telling their stories and it's, it's been, it's just been unbelievable.

Now, in this capacity as editor in chief, you determine the vision for the magazine. I assume you can give it brand new direction. Are you making changes to Entrepreneur magazine?

Oh yeah, yeah. I mean we made a ton. So when I came in, I started as editor in chief the fall of 2016 and I had, I had this, this. The magazine had been running like a business magazine for like small business people in that very traditional sense. Small business, you know, like mom and pop shop and we're selling widgets on the screen on the corner. And the, that is, that is what the word entrepreneur used to be. You know, like for. The magazine's been around for 40 years and for most of that time, entrepreneur equals small business person. It made total sense. But the culture had just changed. I'm pretty sure you guys see that all the time. Everybody calls themselves an entrepreneur now from, from like kids building Instagram pages to people running venture back companies, like they all call themselves entrepreneur. And yet here we had this brand who was still speaking to only a segment of that. So my vision for changing the magazine was that we needed to start talking to everybody who identifies as an entrepreneur. And to do that, we needed to identify the thing that they all have in common. Like how can we be relevant and valuable to all of them? Because it's not in like tax tips for small Businesses, a kind of old model. It is to me the one thing that everybody shares is that they all have the experience of entrepreneurs, the emotional experience of entrepreneurism, which is, which is really, it's, you know, it's lonely and makes you feel crazy and it's challenging and you're like, you know, you're just sort of like constantly trying to smash your head through walls that everybody shares, that everybody feels that regardless of their, their scale. And so I thought if we could if we could harness that, if we could make a magazine that is about that, about getting through that, about acknowledging that, about recognizing that you are not alone in feeling that way, then we would. We'd have something really special. And so that we. I just stripped down the magazine. I rebuilt it with that in mind and a new staff and a new mission. And it has. It's just been. The response was immediate. It's unbelievable to see how people feel almost cathartic reading it, seeing their own problems laid out.

So smart. And just like any other entrepreneurial business, we need to adjust to the opportunity around us, to the client base, and that's exactly what you did. I don't know if you know this, Kelsey. Chris Winfield, our mutual friend of Jason mine is, who put us in touch. And when I was talking with Jason about coming on our show, he's like, you know, there's a real opportunity for businesses to get press. But I think, Jason, we go about it the wrong way. So I'd love to hear from you first. What's the wrong approach to getting press? Why. Why do we want to get it? But then I want to learn the right way. So maybe actually rewording that, maybe we start off with, why is press to our advantage? And then we'll talk about the rights and wrongs.

So that's a really great question. The answer is that press is not always to your advantage. You need to make a. Make a calculated decision about how and when it is. I think that the biggest mistake that people make when they're searching for press is that they just think they should be getting press all the time, everywhere. It's just a thing they're supposed to do. They should go do it right. Like, it. It feels like an obligation almost. They're supposed to do it. And sometimes I have gotten into conversations with people who have pitched me their story, and it was just, like, not right for the magazine. And I'd be asking, why? Why are you doing this? What are you looking for? And their answer is always some version of, like, I feel like I deserve it, or I want to get my story out. That is, those are. Those are terrible, terrible reasons. You know, you have to think of press as a tool like anything else. Like you. Nobody goes and raises money from investors because they deserve it and they want to get. Like, they don't do that, right? You. You go and you get press. You go and you get money from investors when you have a specific need and you know exactly what you're going to do with that money, and you have to think of press that way, too. You go out and at press when you have a specific purpose and you know exactly what it's for. So I always advise people to. Before you ever start reaching out, the first thing you need to do is ask yourself, what can press get me that I need? And good answers to that could be, I've got a. I've got a product, and I want to. I want to raise awareness with my target audience. I've got a new product launch, and I want to make sure that, you know, people know about it. I'm about to go out and raise money, and I want to look impressive to investors. Those are all fine, good reasons. There's lots of good reasons. Because. Because what you will be able to do once you answer that question is you'll be able to pick publications to target that will get you that press that is going to be valuable. Because if you, you know, if you are. If you are selling some thing for frat boys, you don't pitch Entrepreneur magazine. Like, even if we wrote about it, it's not helpful to you, and it's just a waste of your time. So you have to be really strategic about this.

Okay? So I have to have a purpose. But also, and maybe I'm misconstruing this, but I hear about the manipulation of press, particularly in our political climate today. You know, there's clearly different outlets that are taking sides, and it just feels so. It doesn't seem like journalistic reporting. It just seems like agenda reporting. It sounds like if I'm seeking press as a business owner, it's simply I'm trying to promote my agenda. It doesn't seem journalistic. Is that a conflict of interest with even magazines like yours?

Well, so I feel like that's. It's an interesting question. You're kind of like, you're like, mixing a bunch of things up there. Do a little weird stew. So you. Okay, let's back up, everybody. Every journalist is very well aware that anybody who reaches out to them is coming with some form of agenda. Right? And let's just like, let's put politics aside because that's just. That's a whole different world of reporting. And it's not really. I mean, like, it's just not relevant for most business people. So if, you know, if you are. If you are an entrepreneur and you've got a company and you reach out to me, I, I understand that you're looking for. You're looking for coverage, right? And I understand that there's. You have some idea of why that is. Maybe it's not a very well defined idea, but you, you know, you're looking for something from me, so. But I'm, I am, I am not interested in that.

Right?

Like this is, this is going to be, this is the way that the transaction is going to work. I, as the journalist and you know, not, not just me, Entrepreneur Magazine, like, like I, as a standing in for any journalist, I don't care about your business. I don't. What I care about is my reader. I care about serving my reader. My, my. I have a very specific thing that I'm serving my readers. Certain kinds of stories and lessons and, you know, whatever. Like, you know, I just told you the way that I think about Entrepreneur Magazine. It's all about kind of problem solving and ident. Identifying those challenges of being an entrepreneur. Those are the stories that I'm looking for. So I'm not looking to tell somebody's story about just how awesome they are. I'm looking to tell somebody's story about the challenge that they overcame because that's what's going to be relevant to people. So I will always look at anything that comes my way through the lens of how it can be useful to my reader and I will, if I'm interested in your story, shape it to that function. And so, you know, which is why I advise that when people reach out to press, but they need to try to, they need to try to like, the way to get somebody's attention, an editor or reporter, is to understand what it is that they're looking for. How do they tell stories to their reader? Because then you can tell your story to them in a way that they can imagine telling to their reader. And then you've, you've, you've created a pathway here. Right? Like, the big problem is when people just reach out to me and they do it all the time. By the time we are done talking, I can check my inbox, there will be 20 emails like this where they're all just like, you know, I would really love to get a story in Entrepreneur magazine because it would be a big help to my brand. And it's like, that's, that's cool, but that's not the reason that I, I'm not here for that. Like, I'm not here to serve you. So yeah, everybody's got an agenda. We, we understand that. But the, but the, the, the thing you need to understand is if you're a business person, you need to understand the reporter's agenda and then you need to serve It.

So maybe it's about structuring the pitch. I. I get pitched even like as a podcaster and it says, you know, big fan. It always starts off the same way. I'm a big fan of your show, by the way. I've never heard of single episode. Big fan, big fan. Never heard of a single episode by a picture.

Everyone's a big fan. Big, big fan.

Then they say, yeah, nope, nope.

Can I say wait, wait, before you even go further, can, Can I just say. So my. I get that a lot, especially with, with Problem Solvers, my show. And there are. There are two types of pitches that I get. Of course, they all say, big fan of the show. No, they're not fans of the show. Number, number one, this is. This would be 90% of the pitches is big fan of your show. Problem Solvers. I would love to have my client or whoever on. And then they just tell me about, which is not useful at all because the show is called Problem Solvers. Tell me a problem that you solved. Like, it's so simple. The instructions to pitch the show are literally in the name of the show, and they can't seem to do it. And then the other. The 10% are people who've listened to the show say, big fan of the show. Actually believe it. You know why I believe it? Because the following email says, here is a problem that I saw. Here's the problem, and then here's the solution. They lay it out, they listen to the show, they understood the story that I'm telling, and they lay it out. And then I can imagine it on the show and I say, yes, right?

Yeah, right. Yeah. So the pitches you get are the exact same as mine. Big fan. And then it just is lawed on about the. The customer they're pitching and just gives, you know, link, link, link, link. Would love to have them on your show. And it's like, it's so easy to delete them. It's like, don't have time, don't have time, don't have time. They really don't care.

Yeah.

What about pitching a magazine, like, or. Or anything, any kind of press? What is the right structure?

So there's no right structure in terms of. There's no magic email formula. People often ask me, right down to the subject line, what do you write in the subject line? The answer is that I think that you need to communicate that you understand the publication that you're pitching to and why it's relevant to that publication. It's really that simple. And also write an email that looks like it was just sent to me. Because if I have, you know, if I get a sense, I'm sure this is your inbox as well. If I have a sense that this was just blasted out to 50 people. Delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete. Like, I'm just not interested. So write me, like, a normal human email from a normal human to another human. Like, you know, I don't know. It shouldn't be that complicated. And then. And then tell me, like, the. Can I. Give me one of my favorite examples. Okay, so. So there's this woman, her name is Joelle. She's got a company called Buttery, or the product is called Buttery, and it's a butter dish and butter dish, it's on a hinge. So the butter dish is on a hinge. Why is it on a hinge? It's on a hinge because you can leave. I don't know if you guys are aware of this. I was actually not. You can leave your butter out. Like, you don't need to refrigerate your butter. Like, you know, everything is refrigerated over here in. In my apartment. But you don't. You can leave it out, which is great, because then it's soft and spreadable and. Which is wonderful. But the. But the problem is that on. In normal butter dishes, you lift the lid to the butter dish, and it'll eventually kind of bump into, you know, you'll accidentally bump it into the butter. And when it's warm butter, that creates an instant mess, but butter everywhere. So create a butter dish on a hinge. Very smart. And then. Then, you know, never bust into the butter. Okay, that's cool. It's not something for us. It's not a story that I would have written about, but in her pitch to me, because she reads the magazine and she had intuited that. That I. What I look for is, like, strategies and problem solving. She told me this story about how when she was developing this thing, she wanted to do some market research, want to figure out the. The. The. The price point that people would. Would buy the colors that people wanted. You know, just basic research. And she went to a company and asked that. That does this kind of stuff and asked them for a quote, and they quoted her $10,000. And she. You know what? You know what? She didn't have $10,000. She didn't have $10,000. So what did she do? She puzzled over it for a bit and then happened to be flying out somewhere and was at the airport and was looking around and realized that the airport is full of people who have absolutely nothing better to do than sit around and answer questions about butter dishes. Nothing better to do. Just. Just waiting, just waiting for the flight. So if she, she. And you know what? You can go to the airport whenever you damn want. If you have a flight at 5pm you can show up at 9am if you want, get right past security and you've got hours and hours and hours to just walk around. You can go from gate one to gate eight. And by the time you're at eight, everybody at gate one is gone. There's a whole new set of people. You just go, so. So that's what she did. That's what she did. And that's how she did the market research for buttery. She saved $10,000 by just walking around the airport. And I love that story. And I put that, I saw that and I was like, that belongs in the magazine. Because every entrepreneur, no matter what they're doing, they can appreciate that. They can appreciate that thinking that is a pitch for me, right? Like that's someone who got the magazine, who understands it, who's telling me not just the thing that they want. It's not just like in the butter dish is so great. And you could blah, blah, blah, right? Like, that's not for my audience. What's for my audience is this wacky thing that she did with market research. So you tell me that story, you understand the publication and you tell me that story doesn't have to be fancy thing. Email, like a couple paragraphs, that's all. And I'm going to bite.

I love it because I can see that this translates to everyone that's been stuck trying to raise money and she just seems to be the benefactor because now you learn about the Buttery. What about the way to pitch? You were saying email. I mean, what about some of the picks of the phone? I never get phone calls about pitches. I've never gotten a physical letter. Should people try alternative pitches?

No.

Why is.

I mean, I mean, you know, like, like I should, I mean, I'll. Let me be a little more specific. Don't call. Definitely don't call. No journalist ever wants to be called. I don't answer my phone unless I know who it is. And, and that's been my entire career. Email is definitely the best. Some, some journalists will be fine being pitched by like Twitter, DM or we're going to go slide into some journal or even Instagram, DM or whatever. I get pitched on LinkedIn. I find that to be fine. You can try different forms of social media, but I think, you know, what really the best use of social media is for, though, if you're going to be trying to get press, it's a slow relationship built. So if you go and you follow some journalists who are covering, maybe they're covering your industry or they work at a publication that you just feel like you'd be perfect in or whatever it is, and you just start responding to them, you know, just like you start engaging with them on social media, don't pitch them. This is a long game here, right? Like, just start pitching, just start engaging, Just, you know, respond. Send a dm. Loved this. Oh, that was so smart. Ask a question, whatever it is. Like, there was a guy in, There's a guy, I'm blanking on his name right now, but this, this Irish guy in Dublin who has this company and he did that, he did that to me on, I have a lot of people who do that to me, but he did it on, on Instagram and for more months. I mean, he would just respond to like my stories and whatever and, and then at the, it was just, was the perfect time. He told me a bunch about his business and he had bootstrapped his business and he'd done some interesting things and I just happened to be working on a story about bootstrapping and I, I, I, you know, I put him in the magazine because at this point I had gotten to know I was willing to listen to his pitch. You know, again, you don't, I'm not asking for people to, like, I'm not saying you need to come and like, flatter me, spend time, but, you know, like, let's just be, be, be honest about, be honest about the situation. Like you're reaching out to another person and that person engages like a human being where they, they, they're more likely to listen to someone who they feel like they have some kind of relationship with.

Should they be very forward in the subject line? Like saying, I would like to pitch you or here's my pitch, or should they be more clandestine about it?

Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, you know, what? If I see the word pitch in the subject line, it's often coming from mass blast things. I don't know why. For some reason mass blasters like to put the pitch in the subject line. No, I don't, don't. I know what you're doing. You don't have to be like formal about it. You have to be like this File under your department of pitches. Like, I know you're, like, I know what you're doing, you know, so no, I think that you need to, you need to reach out and just like hook me as early as possible with something that is going to be relevant to me, you know, like, just think about, think about it like an elevator pitch to an investor. Like, you know, if you have 60 seconds with an investor and you're going to try to get something really interesting across to them, right? Like, you know, what are you going to do? Well, you're going to tell them about their business, but you're also going to tell them if for an investor, you're going to tell them about the opportunity. Like, you know, what's the investment opportunity? What's the, what's the growth potential? What's the market, you know, for, for, for a reporter? Like, what's the, what's the story? What's the exciting thing that I would want to tell my reader? Like, you know, if you've got, if you've got 60 seconds of my attention, hit me with it.

Yeah. Quick, short, concise. So Ryan Holiday came on. I don't know if you're familiar with that name he wrote. Yeah, mine came on our show. I think Kelsey had a little verbal crush on him. And you would love, you would love me. He was amazing. And one thing he talks about, he wrote a book called Trust Me, I'm Lying. And in there he talks about building a media presence. And he said, start with like the super small as your local newspaper. The likelihood of them picking your story is very high. Are you familiar with that strategy? Do you suggest it, what's your thoughts around that?

Oh, yeah, I, I completely agree with that. I mean, it all, it all goes back to what is your purpose in getting press? Because sometimes a local outlet can absolutely be more useful to you than like a major national outlet. Example. I once had a guy who has a, he has a hot dog food cart, food truck business in Washington D.C. and he pitched, he, I had met him at some conference and then he, he pitched me afterwards and I wrote him back. And you know, I'm usually not like this forward with people, but I had met him and so I felt like it was fine. You know, I wrote him back and I was like, dude, like, there's, there's no reason for you to have press and Entrepreneur magazine. It doesn't do anything for you, right? Like, what you need, you have. You are selling hot dogs in Washington D.C. that's your business. So who do you like? If, you know, you get a, what are you going to get? A national magazine coverage and then 99% of the people who read it are not in Washington D.C. looking for a hot dog that's not useful to you. What you need to do is like, like call, track down like a reporter at the Washington Post food section and figure out like, whatever the, like eater, you know, or whatever the local food blogs are and find some like, food influencers and get them aware of your, of your hot dog business because that is what matters to you. Like, you're a local business. Use local press to your advantage. And also, frankly, they're, they're just not getting pitched as much as I am. So no, I think Ryan is, Ryan is absolutely right on that. And, and you know, by the way, that that's, that also can go for like, if you're interested in writing. You know, I started as, I started as a local newspaper reporter. That's where, that's where I got my chops. You know, so many people, they like, they graduate college and then they like, they expect that they're going to get some cool job at a national magazine. It's like, guys, it doesn't work that way all the time. Like, you know, go, go start, like go, go, go start where you can get access to, to, to the thing you're looking for and then build your, build your talents and build your abilities and your clips and then grow up. And that's how I spent years and years in Community Newsp me immensely.

And I presume you build a rapport, some entrepreneurs or people you've run stories on in the past, you may invite them again for future stories.

Yeah, you know, I mean, not so. Yeah, yes and no. I have, I have turned to people sometimes more than once, but especially you have to be mindful. You have to be mindful that you most of the time are going to have like one shot at something. So, you know, like, if, if Entrepreneur magazine writes about, like, Entrepreneur magazine is not writing about Buttery again, you know, like, like, like that was, that was her one shot. Now she happened to tell me such a great story that I keep repeating her story over and over again. So she's actually got a lot of mileage out of me. But so, you know, that's pretty good. And, but, but yeah, I mean, don't expect that, don't expect that you're going to get repeat coverage and for that reason hold your fire until it really matters. You know, like, it's, it's. I get, I get so many, I Get pitches from companies, and there'll be things like we just h new cto. Would you like to write about it? And it's like, guys, is that really the one story you want in Entrepreneur? Is that it? That's the big thing that you're going to do? Hold your fire until it really matters? I mean, you know, we're talking about, like, you put profit first. Like, that's not profit first. Profit first is to figure out what is going to have the greatest impact on your business and then make that moment count.

Got it. You know, one thing that I interpreted from what Ryan also said, starting with small outlets and building your way up, is that some of the larger outlets will look for the momentum of a story by looking at the smaller magazines. But that was his perspective. What's your perspective? Do you validate stories by looking for it elsewhere, or do you want something that's totally fresh and unspoken?

I do not do that, but other people do do that. I'm just. The nature of what I cover leads me to not need to do that. But Ryan's absolutely correct that coverage can build momentum. People don't generally like to pile on inside of their own, like, level, which is to say that if I see something covered in Forbes or Fortune, like another national business magazine, I am less inclined to do it. But if I'm reading a city magazine or a local newspaper or a blog or something, and I see somebody covered in it, it, and it happens to really catch me. Be interesting, then, yeah, then I, then, then I feel like it hasn't been covered by my reader set. And therefore I'm, I'm more, I'm more willing to do it. But no, he's, he's totally right. You can, you can totally use that strategy. And, and, you know, and, and you should, because the smaller down you go, frankly, the, the, the, the fewer pitches they're getting and, and often the smaller the staffs are, so they're, they're hungrier for pitches in a way where places with really large staffs, where they're going out, they're like, are, are less hungry. I mean, you know, you have to keep in mind that a journalist, like a journalist doesn't get into this business to be somebody's PR person, like a journalist gets into this business to go and find stories like, find fascinating things, find amazing things to write about and to, and to, to inform a reader about. You know, if you asked me what my favorite stories are, none of them start with somebody pitching me none of them. So you, you're you're immediately already going up against somebody whose inclination is to go find something themselves rather than to just take your pitch. Now, of course, the economics of media are such that people are pumping out more and more stuff, and so sometimes, you know, a good pitch is just super convenient and people will be happy for it, but it's. It's, you know, it's not their natural inclination. It's not the reason they're in the business. So you. You. You have to make it really, really appealing.

All right. Yeah. You got something else?

So Mike mentioned in the beginning that you wrote a book with your wife that'll be released in October. Do you have a methodology for your publicity for that question?

So. Yes. Yes, I do. We have been thinking about it for so long. Okay, so it's called Mr. Nice Guy. It has absolutely nothing to do with entrepreneurship. It's about two people who each week sleep together and then critically review each other's performance in a magazine.

Really?

Yes, yes. It's so fun. Available for pre order now, I should say.

Yeah.

So it's. Yeah, it's called Mr. Nice Guy. It's. We wrote it together, and it took us, like, three years. It's been. It was. I just. I loved the. I loved the process. It was. It was really. It was really so much better writing a book with my spouse than just, like, trying to do this alone. And we sold it. So, you know, we're all talking in June of 2018. We. We. Oh, my God, it's June. So we sold it literally one year ago. We sold it June of 2017. And because books take a long time to come out, and from that moment, we started relationship building. Because press is not. I mean, press can be transactional, but it, like I said before, it's so much more potent if it is based on relationships. And so, you know what I started doing? I kept a spreadsheet every time I would interact with somebody who I thought could be useful for the book. You know, every time I met somebody who did something or if somebody reached out to me, they wanted a meeting, and I was like, you know what? This person could be useful for the book. A year, I would say yes to the meeting and then not even mention the book to them. Right? Just, like, have just. Just build the relationship. Like, you know, you. You want to. I. I feel. I really feel strongly like you want someone to feel invested in you before. Before they know what they can do for you. So I would. So I started. I kept. I have this very, very long, long, long list. And then Also, even for media, you know, when we would, we reached, we, we knew that we would want to target a lot of women's media for this book. And there was a real advantage to reaching out to people before we even had a book to, to pitch them, right? Like, we would reach out to like, people at Refinery 29 or hello, giggles or whatever, because we don't know those markets very well. And we would say, hey, listen, you know, like, like I really, you know, respect your work. Gotta be honest, I don't understand it very well because we're not in that marketplace. We have this book coming out. We're not pitching you. I couldn't pitch you if you wanted. I don't even have a galley to send you. What I really would love is your perspective on what your audience is interested in and what you pay attention to. Like what podcasts are you interested in, what influencers are you interested in so that we can just kind of get a sense. Can you just give us a sense? And people were really happy to do that because they, they didn't, there was no obligation. They didn't feel like they, they didn't, they didn't owe us anything. Right? And from that we got amazing leads. We, we, we expanded our networks. Then we just repeat that trick with the people that they would talk to. And now, of course, we've built a relationship. We kept in touch with them throughout the year and now we're hitting, now we're hitting them up for press and they're a lot more receptive to it because we started at a time where we didn something to sell them.

That's so smart.

One last question I have before we let you go is around profitability, right? That's the name of the show. Have you seen, do you have stories, antidotes around effective PR campaigns and how it can drive a business's sales and, or profitability?

Oh, sure. I mean, you know, I think that so, so, I mean, you know, you said, you said pr. Let me, let me, you know, we really haven't talked about PR at all. So if I second, Let me, let me answer that by dipping into the world of pr. You know, I, I, I, I hear from, I hear from a ton of founders. I also hear from a ton of publicists. And the, the advantage of reaching out as a founder is that, is that I, I, I, and I think a lot of people are more likely to respond to you because it doesn't, because I feel like maybe you're you, you just seem like a real person, which is not to say the publicists are not real people, but publicists are. Their job is to email a bazillion people. And, and so I sometimes think of them more like email machines. And, and the founder, I know, like, has. Has a million other things to do. And so I, I somewhat. I sort of appreciate hearing from them. But a PR person can. Can a good PR person, I should say, because a lot of people are PR people who don't really know what they're doing. But a good PR person can develop a strategy for you that really marries press with profit. Like the, that the goal of it is to reach out very strategically and drive sales. And I, I absolutely, I absolutely. When I talk to founders, I hear that all the time that, that if they, if they had a good relationship with. With a PR person, it was because they signed on at a specific time, right? Like maybe. Maybe it's launch. And so they signed on for, like, the three months leading up to and through launch of a particular product. And then that PR person was able to target very specifically the. The publications that they were most likely to be reaching their audience, and then that drove sales. It absolutely does.

Now.

It does. It's not gonna do it by itself. Right. Like, PR is part of a holistic strategy. You need to marry that with, you know, with, With. With paid media and all that stuff. But it's. If you, if you land the bullseye, people are gonna. People are gonna buy. I mean, they. It's. It's. It's. In many ways it's more effective than buying media. Right? Because. Because that looks like a sales pitch and it lives in the advertising space. And this is. There's a reason they call it earned media. It's because it, it feels to the reader like. It's, like it's deserving of their attention because it was being written about. And, and so if you can target that right then. And you're, you know, you. You can absolutely reach your audience and they will buy. I, I hear it all the time that the press is. Is a great strategy. Um, but you just, you just can't waste your time on it. Um, do not. Do not do it when you don't need it. Do not do it at the wrong places. Um, this is not something that you just deserve. It's not something that's good for the ego. It, It. It really is about profit, and you need to think of it that way.

Awesome. Awesome. Jason, before we let you go, where can people learn more about you? Yep.

So thank you for asking. The number one thing I'D say to do is just go to my website, which is Jason Pfeiffer.com because I've got links to my, my podcast, Problem Solvers and Pessimist Archive there. Also the novel and, and my newsletter, which is called the Fifer 5. It's five entrepreneurial insights every month. And, you know, it's, it's super fun. And, and, and, and then on Twitter and Instagram, I am @heyfifer, which is H E Y F E I F U are awesome.

We'll have that in the show notes. Jason, thanks for joining us today.

Thank.

Hey, thank you, guys.

Bazinga. Oh, we got a bazinga. So here's what we're gonna do, Kels. We're gonna recap what we learned, right? We got a little shout out. Not a shout out, listener mail question. And also, I didn't tell Jason this when we were recording, but, you know, he was, he had that. He's writing that book about every week. A couple sleeping together and then recording it. I asked my wife if, if we should start documenting any of these times together. And here was. I recorded her response.

Oh, hell no.

So, okay. Punch me, Cal. Oh, okay.

This.

So ridiculous. Like every. Everyone that listens to these two episodes, like, okay, Mike's got three sound clips he plays over and over, over and over. But still funny somehow. It's funny.

Yeah, it does get funnier.

Want to spit on myself.

All right, we're keeping it really professional.

Before we, we learn what we learned.

Yes.

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Okay, so I think my biggest takeaway is treating publicity for the long game. I love how he said it's more about relationship building. So in his personal, own publicity methodology, I guess he formed those relationships starting last year. Not pitching his book at all, just reaching out, making those connections, asking them questions, you know, treating them like the experts that they are. And I feel like that's going to pay off tenfold. I feel like it's going to continue to serve him and his purposes throughout his career. And I also, I mean, he keeps referring to the connections that he has is treating him. And I think people in his role as humans just treat them like humans. And I feel like that, that is so true. Like, we, we're in this sort of mode of automation, I think, and we duplicate efforts and we take the actual, you know, nuances of human connection out of it so often. And I think that, especially in this case, when you're trying to pitch something that's very personal to you. So you need to authenticate that by treating the person like a person. Right?

Yeah, totally. I am so tired. And I'm sure Jason can attest to this too, is the pitch process via email is so routinized by people, it's predictable. I'll get a pitch, I'll delete it. Three days later, I'll get the. Hey, bubbling this to the top of your inbox email. And then three days later, oh, want to try again? Don't mean to disturb you. It's like, dude, this is so automated and cheesy. It's like delete, delete, delete. And then I actually mark it to go into spam. So I have to deal with that. So customize it. Be personal. The other thing I took about was he was very candid. He said, I care about my reader. I don't give two fruits about you. As exact words, I don't give two fruits. I don't give two fruits about you. I care about my reader. And if your story supports it, then we have a match. But most of us are saying, this is why I'm great. And he doesn't care about that. That's not his customer. We also want to know what you learned, so be sure to post that online. Oh, can I share a quick story too? Yeah, I think we have time there. One of my favorite, favorite kind of media stories of all time. I like. Maybe we should interview him. I spoke with him before. It's a guy named Kyle McDonald. Do you ever hear the story called my or called one red paperclip?

No.

Okay, here's a guy who leveraged media so well, he ended up getting a house for free from it. What he did was he posted an ad on Craigslist. He said, I don't have a job currently, but I am a journalist. He was a. He was a writer. And he said, I'm going to document my story of trading my one red paperclip. My objective one day is to own a house. House. And I'm going to trade up my red paperclip to get a house. He puts an ad on Facebook saying, does anyone want to trade me something for my one red paperclip? And someone said, I'll give you a pen for your red paperclip. He then got a pen. He goes to, you know, he didn't go to news yet because who cares? They got pen. He then goes, runs another ad, says, I have a pen. Were you willing to trade four or five trades into it? The pen became, I think like a atv. Like, it started upgrading. A pen became like a toolbox or. Or a tool. A tool became a toolbox. He kept on upgrading like five or six trades and it became something significant. Let's say it was an atv. This is when local news starts catching on. Here's a guy who's looking to get a house. He started the paperclip. He now has an atv. He's looking to trade his new ATV for something that became ultimately a cargo bus or truck. I think it's 10th trade in and the small local channels Were carrying a story. Once he get this truck, it goes to major media. And there's this guy who's looking to get a house. He got two more trades, became a on stage at a kiss concert or something that got traded for up. The last trade was there was a town in Canada who said, we would be honored to give you a house and rename the park the one red paperclip park national news. And sure enough, today, Kyle McDonald owns a house in Canada that was donated or traded to him for his cargo truck or whatever. And out front, they have this massive one red paperclip.

That's wild.

I think that's the ultimate lesson in media. He didn't only pitch the media, he used the media to leverage the next level of his progress. And then his story became this ongoing thing, right. Unbelievably successful. And it put him on the main stage as a media maven. And people have now hired him as a consultant for this kind of work.

Oh, how cool.

There's the lesson for you, my friends. Here's also I said to Kyle when I called him, I said, kyle, what do you think about, like, me trying to do something similar? I was thinking of starting with one plastic green paperclip. And he said, do it.

Just do it.

That's my only.

Squeeze it in.

Yeah, I just squeeze in. All right, let's do our listener mail before we get out of here. So let me hit the big funny one. Mail pattern. Baldness. So stale. What I got there.

That big funny sound effect.

Yeah.

Okay, so this one comes from Marilyn Peters. She has sort of a nuanced proba. First question about her business. She says she's doing the instant assessment and she's questioned. She has a question regarding cost of goods sold.

Yeah, classic.

She owns a bridal store and considers her expenses from purchasing her sample gowns as cost of goods sold. I have to purchase these gowns for brides to try on. Then I reorder a new gown in their size. The sample gowns do not leave my store until they are discontinued. Then at that time, I sell them. Should those be considered in my material costs?

Great question. So a lot of people, when they do the profit first assessment, they confuse cost of goods sold and what we call the real revenue adjustment. We say, you got to take out your materials and subcontractors to get to your real revenue. They are distinct and different. Cost of goods sold is an accounting term. It's very practical to determine your gross revenue, and you can base some calculations on that. The real revenue adjustment we do is simply for one purpose. We want to see what your business really generates in revenue. As an example, I've shared this before. If I build houses for $10 million a year, but I hire subcontractors for 5 million, I need, I don't know, materials like sheetrock and lights for 2 million, that's $7 million. I don't have a $10 million business. I have a $3 million business. But I'm taking another $7 million from my customer and immediately giving it to the supplier of the goods and giving some money to the contractors. Then I have to run my profit first assessment off of 3 million. If you have a substantial, and this is the key, a substantial amount of your cost going to materials that you buy from one customer or one vendor and give basically to your customer, you're just kind of managing the transfer. For example, I buy a lot of gowns and then the customers come and purchase the gowns from me. Effectively they could go to the manufacturer of the gowns and buy them, but they're using me for a convenience. So my business is, isn't, you know, all the revenue, it's the supportion minus that the gowns. The thing is, has to be substantial and how we identify that is 25 or more revenue. So if you have a million dollar business and you spend $300,000 on gown purchases to supply your store, that's over 25%. You subtract it out to get your real revenue, 700,000. If you're buying a few gowns, say $10,000 of gowns on your million dollar business, do not adjust. You're a million dollar business business. The goal is simply to get to what your real revenue is. And that's when you get to the taps chart stands for target allocation percentages and you're off to the races. If in doubt, leave it out if you don't know what I'm talking about. This is confusing you. Whatever your revenue is, that's the revenue. We're going to base your profit first system after bazinga. I got bazing. All right, Are we good?

Yeah.

I don't know. All right then take us out of here.

Everybody, please leave us a comment. Ratings on whatever podcast are you listening to and pre. Please hit us at.

And here's one more thing, my friends. Why not pick up the book Clockwork? You know, I was studying Maslow's hierarchy of needs recently. Actually you saw me present on it.

I did.

All right, be totally honest with you.

Yes.

That's probably the first time you ever saw me present.

No, it's not.

I wouldn't. Nelson seen me for time.

You did like a, like career event.

Oh, that's right.

And you haven't quit yet. I'm surprised.

No, I love it. I love it. I feel like I'm biased, obviously, but.

Did you like the presentation?

Yeah, fantastic. And un. I mean, still biasly, but witnessing the other people, they were obviously really impacted by it as well.

Cool. It was fun. I love storytelling.

Yeah.

Well, I started talking about Maslow's hark of needs and why believe leave is now. And I've yet to fully define it, but I think there is a entrepreneurial hierarchy of needs on there. One of the levels is the recapture of time. So many entrepreneurs have no time left. We work in our business. We're exhausted and we're not living life anymore. That's a sin. That's shameful. Clockwork is designed. The book was written to design your business to run itself. I wrote that book so you can finally recapture time and have the business operate and bring about systems, fluidity, give people, you know, empower community people jobs, bring balance to everyone's life. So if you haven't read the book Clockwork yet, get it came out this past August. I. Even though we're recording this in June, it's already out there. I know it's October. When this gets brought up, go pick up your copy of Clockwork. It's worth the whatever, 16, 18 bucks, whatever it's selling for, for God's sake, 18 bucks. And get your time back to Amazon, Barnes Nobles, and so forth. And one more thing, we're all about profitability here. That's why we started an organization, Prof. First Professionals. We have a collection of Prof. First professionals throughout the globe who specialize in driving profit in your business. It's time you hire one. So why not go to profit first professionals dot com. Click on find one. Hopefully by this point our better improved systems out that we can assign and match up quicker. We were doing this manually for the longest time. Talk about a, you know, really proving out a concept before you automate it. We did it for four years. We now have a system that automates cross process to match you with the best profit first professional who drive profit in your business. But you do need to take the first step. Go to our website, click on find, fill out the form and we'll hook you up. All right.

Yeah.

Okay, good. You ready for the music to crank up?

I'm ready.

Here we go. All right, we'll see you guys later.

Bye.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Do it.

Yeah, do it, do it, do it.