Episode 238: Tips for Increasing Community and Productivity in the Workplace

In today's episode, we're gonna talk about increasing community and productivity in the workplace. And we're doing it with just us, no guests. You're about to hear all that and so much more on today's episode of Entrepreneurship Elevated. Yes. I love this song.

Me too.

All right. Hey, everyone. My name is Mike Michalowicz, and I am on a very clear mission. I am here to eradicate entrepreneurial poverty. You know, that belief that you as an entrepreneur, are making ridiculous gobs of money when in fact, you're struggling financially, Struggling to have any time? Well, we fix that on this show. Now I'm joined in studio by two extraordinarily great friends, Kelsey Ayers.

Hello.

And Amy Cartelli.

Hey, there.

And we're here today to share some cool stuff that's going on. But first, Kelsey, where can people find us?

You can find us on itunes, Stitcher, Spotify, TuneIn Radio, iHeartRadio, or EntrepreneurShipLevated Podcast.com or any podcast or anywhere, really.

And you know what? We actually now own that music. We properly license it and purchased it.

Very cool.

Yeah, it wasn't cheap. It wasn't cheap.

No, but it was great. And he was really, really great. I liked working with him.

He did an under promise over deliver, right?

Yeah.

So we order it, and he says, I'll do the outro music for you, which is very cool. And I'll give you a punch, meaning, like, you know when you say, we're going to now go to our sponsors? And he goes, yeah, well, not that bad, but. But he delivered, like, six punches, I think.

Yeah.

And he was very communicative.

Yeah. And he listened to our podcast, and he, like, after he listened to it, he was like, you guys don't have to pay me a deposit. I trust you. After listening to your podcast.

Oh, my God, do we pay him yet?

Yes, we did.

Okay. You should have trusted us. Hey, we have a special offer going on for the show. You can get a free copy of Serge how you how you do this is go to Mike Michalowicz.com, fill out the form, and you get a free copy of my book. Serge, if you can't spell Mike Michalowicz, I totally get it. Go to mikemotorbike.com Kelsey name. Before you started, you saw Fyre Festival.

I did.

It's on Netflix. You guys, do you have a Netflix game?

I do have it. I'm gonna check it out.

It's on Hulu. It's a different one on Hulu too, that I just read about.

A different one.

Yeah. So I'm gonna watch it.

So here is the thing about the Netflix one. Supposedly, the people who filmed it actually worked for the organization that scammed everyone.

That's what I was really. And the whole time, I was sort of like, I almost don't want to watch this because I feel like I'm giving more energy to this guy one way or another. Like, it's giving him more notoriety, even if it's in infamy. Like, it's still giving him more energy that he could turn around and potentially benefit from or the other people who are behind the scenes. Like, I'm wondering what Ja Rule is doing. Like, is that all him?

You know, it could be him.

Yeah.

It's like, you know when someone commits a heinous crime and you see that the perpetrator all over the Internet, and then all the victims are like, oh.

Yeah, they don't show those.

Yeah, they don't show that, and they don't get notoriety.

Right.

And so I think it. It perpetuates that concept. Like, oh, if I'm a perpetrator, I'll be famous or infamous, but.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah. So this Fyre Festival, though, I think, was so fascinating about it. With that. All that preamble set aside is the fact that he is an entrepreneur that had a. I think, an interesting concept, interesting potential, but he just. Narcissism took over.

Yeah, He.

He was selling so much, I think, that in revenue that generated well over a million dollars, probably. Well, more.

Yeah.

All the money got evaporated. It's like you're at that pie business. You had Amy. She. Amy was selling pies. Like, this is back in high school. We went to high school together.

Right.

Amy comes into high school one day and says, the food here sucks, which is true. Sure.

Hot dog day was okay.

Hot dog day was okay. And pizza day was okay.

Okay. Hot dog day was better.

Yeah. You. Well, you like a big hot dog, then. Then she's like, listen, does anyone want some good dessert? And people are like, yeah. I'm like, I love apple pie. She's like, you know, it's so ironic. I am selling apple pie, but to get the materials and stuff, I only asked for your. This was five bucks back then for a slice. It was expensive.

It was very.

It was homemade.

Excellent pie, though.

She raised. What was it, six, $7,000?

Yeah. Easy, easy.

Didn't deliver a single pie. You were the inception for Fyre Fest.

I am. I am following in my footsteps.

Kelsey, what have you been up to?

So as you guys know, I'm taking a sabbatical, so I've been, like, trying to figure out what I need to do in preparation for my trip. So mostly, like, stuff around the house because I hopefully will put it on every mv. So what to lock up, what needs to be fixed. Because as a, you know, consumer coming into a place, there are things that I'm like, meh, it's fine.

Right?

It's okay if the stove doesn't work.

I like that squirrel in my attic.

Yeah, right, right. Scratching every night.

Things I don't think of. Yeah, that's a lot.

There is, like, way more stuff that I thought that I was like, oh, yeah. Somebody else probably wouldn't be cool with that.

So what's the biggest thing that someone wouldn't be cool with?

My water is brown currently.

Oh, my gosh. Are you kidding me?

No. So I think it's iron sedime.

Because.

I did like a whole comprehensive water test and that's. It's just iron sediment, which is not harmful. But obviously you're trying not to have.

A water brown squirrel in closet. Yeah. You know, the creepiest thing I say a lot of Airbnbs because of travels is when people have personal effects in the room. So like, like, like pictures of the family and stuff, you're just. It feels very impossible.

You gotta have all that removed before you do it. Okay.

Yeah.

What do you mean?

It's like how I always think my house is clean until five minutes before I find out guests are coming.

And then all of a sudden I see everybody.

Then all of a sudden you're like, oh, my gosh.

Especially if you have a pet. Do you have any pets?

I have no pets.

Oh, it's the best house ever. And you don't have any either.

Nope.

So we have a dog. White hair everywhere.

I remember those days we had collies growing up.

Oh, did you?

Yeah, it was like, this is, you know, tumbleweeds of sometimes going across the living room floor.

Oh, it's the worst. And I think for kids, it's hard to keep up. I think for guests, that's one of the grossest things.

Yeah. Especially if you don't like that or you have any kind of allergy.

Yeah, yeah. And you just see a tumbleweed roll by. It's like, oh, good.

But cats are harder in the sense of smells.

Yeah.

Cats have, like, can have very pungent.

Smells in the litter box. And a lot of times they mark places.

Yeah. Their urine. Or as I call it. Urine. Yeah. Because it's. That Pungent.

That's true.

So quick story. We used to have a cat growing up. My cat got elderly and was, I say, spiteful. One day I'm running late for school. My parents would keep our shoes right next to the door. So you put your shoes on last. I put my shoe on. It squishes in and I'm like, oh, how'd this get wet? I pull it off and then the smell of your rhyme. Pungent urine.

They do spray sometimes.

My cat's like.

Oh gosh, they are funny.

You know, this show is sponsored by Nextiva and Receipt Bank. You know, I went out to Nextiva last week or two.

This one is sponsored by eight o' clock Coffee.

Oh, eight o' clock Coffee too, right? That's our new sponsor.

Yeah.

Oh, is next to even Receipt bank even? No, can't even mention them. I don't even know who they are. It's only 8 o' clock coffee.

Yeah, this one is only 8 o' clock coffee.

Oh, okay. So Kelsey brought them on board and they're wonderful. I'm a huge coffee drinker every morning.

As am I.

You have to.

You know this about me, people. I don't even get out of bed until I know the coffee has already been brewed downstairs.

And it's that smell.

It gets me out of the bed and downstairs. And if it doesn't go on, I don't get out of bed.

You have it on a timer?

I have it on a timer because I have these awesome bosses who actually just showed up one day at my door with a coffee pot with a timer. So every night before I go to bed, I set it up.

That's awesome.

4:30 in the morning the coffee starts going.

Yeah. Do you like decaffeinated or caffeinated coffee?

Oh goodness. Caffeinated.

Yeah, caffeinate. And do you like flavor?

Like I like flavor? I like hazelnut or French vanilla.

Okay, I love those. But I never brew those cuz Chris doesn't. So I just.

He likes black.

Just straight up coffee. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm a decaf guy.

Are you?

Yeah.

Wait a minute, how does that work?

Well, it's. It's the ritual I think that gives us. First of all, I'm hyper, right? So I don't need like more hypernapse. You can see that. The other thing is you also don't need those glasses.

Right now you're looking at a screen.

I can see you.

So his bono over there.

I look ridiculous. So I was at a speaking engagement. This guy keynoting it was Grow door or door? Grow. So it's conference. This guy's eccentric, and he's just walking around wearing these things. So what I'm wearing is these yellow. These are the modern versions of blue blockers. Kind of like you see someone rides a bicycle, like, you know, speed bicycle, whatever. They would wear these to block the wind, but has the yellow film in front of it that's blocking all the blue light, so it's less eye strain.

Oh, those. That's good. I was wondering what those were. I didn't know. I wasn't. I just thought Mike had this thing, honestly. And I just, like, sit still sometimes.

The real reason you are so funny, because I get. Because I'm an eccentric. I get it. I wonder what my degree of eccentrism is.

Yeah, I wish we had, like, a scale. Yeah. Some kind of metric, too, because I.

Also feel like your own perceived eccentrism is not nearly what the other is perceived as, you know?

Yeah.

What do you think? Because this will turn into the topic for today. We're talking about community and productivity. So let's talk about our colleagues here. Who's the most eccentric in the office? It's gotta be me, right? Or is it Mike Scalise?

I was gonna say Mike Scalise. Yes, I was gonna say Mike Scalise.

He's a weirdo.

His cars, his fascination with his. And to the extent that he takes his car care, it's impressive.

I'm walking to work. So Mike Scalise bought a car from the early 80s as his new car. It's a BMW. He likes cars. It's been nothing but a calamity. Every day it's getting repaired or fixed, but he feels bolstered by it. He's like, well, I love cars. I can't get to work. I hear, this is two or three days ago. I'm coming into the office, I hear this car. You ever hear a car drive by, sounds like it's lapping water, you know what I'm saying?

Like it's blowing bubbles in a sink of water.

Like there's something wrong with the tires, something.

Just because he has the snow tires on.

Oh, does he?

Yeah, it was.

I hear this car. And, like, you know, and there's a drone of cars constantly going by on Main Street. The drone is droned out by this lapping water car. And then I hear a. It's Scalise. And then. So I wave, he slows down, take a turn, you hear the brakes are rusted out. He's the eccentric guy.

This is what we discuss at our employee meetings with each other.

I hope they'll listen to who's. Who's lower. Like, what would you say is the next eccentric going down?

Who's.

Maybe you. I mean, Ariel's pretty eccentric.

I was gonna say Ariel, you and Mike Scalise, I think.

Yeah. Top three.

Top three.

And I would put Ron next, maybe. Yeah, maybe. I would definitely put Mike at the top. Ariel right with him. Than me. I'm a weirdo in the way I express myself. Like these stupid glasses I'll just use. I draw inappropriate things on your desk. Or supposedly someone else does.

I don't know. Somebody does.

I just like, I horse around. I horse around a lot. That's my eccentricity.

That's just fun, though.

Who's the least. Like, who's the stiff in the office? You. Are you kidding me? Amy?

You don't think so?

Yeah.

Do not raise your hand.

You're not the stiff. Maybe Bonnie, because she's the newbie.

I feel like we don't have any. Honestly, I feel like we're all a little bit quirky.

We are a quirky bunch.

Yeah. I don't know if we have.

Yeah, I don't know. I kind of look like I look to Erin for an even keel. I feel like she's the most even keel. And like if I'm starting to, like, spin, I look to Erin and she's like, calm. Even when things are going wrong, she seems calm.

Yeah, she does. Yes, she does. You know, one more thing we do with Aaron will lead the huddle every so often, and I wanted to share that with our listeners. We do a daily huddle here. And Kelsey, why don't you start off with your impression of. Tell our listeners how it operates and maybe, Amy, you can share your impression of if it is working or not.

Sure. So it's basically a daily accountability huddle. So every morning at 8:34am with our coffee in hand, we stand around a giant whiteboard, and on the whiteboard we. We keep our metrics that are important to us. So every day we'll report our metrics and each person is sort of responsible for another one to bring those numbers in. And then each person will say what they accomplished the day before to move the company forward and then identify a big thing that they're going to do that day and update on their personal updates. So one thing that's happening in their life. So Mike Scalise would say, oh, I finally put my snow tires on yesterday. It's always hard.

Like the awkward left.

It's always car related. Usually he can't get his key in.

The door just over again.

Right. The funny thing is it was like 40 degrees out. He's like my lock was frozen.

And then identify any kind of major red flags that we have. And so in that way we make sure we're holding each other accountable and ourselves accountable for moving the business forward.

What do you think about what's your impression now you've experienced it?

Oh my gosh. I think it's so incredibly helpful. First of all, it's one thing to have yourself accountable to see what you intended to get done yesterday, whether or not you're gonna get it done. Oh, and we have, we have. Well, not punishment, but punishment if you don't get done what you said you were gonna get done. I'm up to 50 push ups by the way.

Me too.

Yeah. Are you?

I know push ups or wall squats, right?

Or wall squats. Yes. Push ups or wall squats.

I'm not doing 50 push ups.

But it's incredibly helpful to, to see what you need to get done. Also direct yourself forward with today's objective.

Yeah.

And for me it's really helpful to know what you guys are doing. Especially as one of the more newbie people in the office. It really helps to keep hearing what Aaron and Ron and Bonnie are accomplishing. It really helps sketch out what the rest of everybody else's roles are. Helps me figure out who I'm going to for certain tasks. Who's got this. Yeah. And the ongoing projects, keeping an eye on that. Really helpful.

I like that. Yeah. It brings about a sense of community. You know the reason we do 834. Do you know why we do 8 34? I mean it's not history wise, but why a specific time like that, people start at 8:30.

So it gives a four minute cushion to get your coffee and kind of.

Kind of. It's actually the reverse of that. When you specify a specific start time, that's not a round number. People are more prompt. So if we start at 8:30, it would probably roll out to 8:35 or 8:32. It's randomized. But 8:34, there's a specificity and people.

Do it and you want to get there at 8:34. That is good.

And so for me there's a ritual that builds before I don't. Do you have personal rituals for me? I run and get my coffee. I load up on a little Keurig over there, throw in my 8 o' clock coffee pod. Fill up my coffee. And I just feel this. Okay, now I'm ready to rock and roll.

Yeah.

And it's a great way to go into the meeting because I think the meetings can be. Overall, they're pretty exped. Well expedited. They're pretty efficient.

Yes.

Do you all have personal rituals going into it?

Going into the meeting?

Yeah. You feel. Do you drink Joe in the morning?

I do.

But you get your. So early. So early.

Yeah.

Right to the Keurig, too.

Right to the Keurig. I literally, like, walk around the desk, I grab my coffee mug, and then.

I go back to the Keurig. Yeah.

Do you watch the sunrise?

Yeah, when I can. So a lot of times recently it's been like, as I'm parking and then I walk in and I can see it. But sometimes in the summertime, I miss it altogether.

So I came here, Amy. This is right when Kelsey started a few weeks in. And I came in early, which sometimes I do, but it's a rarity.

Yeah.

So I come in early. I don't expect anyone here. She appropriately locks the door. Right. So she comes in because this is. You can walk up space. Anyone come in? So good for you.

Yeah.

I unlock the door, I walk in. And you keep all the lights out too. That's effing creepy. It's a little bit freaking creepy.

Kelsey's the angel. Because there's just one light shining down on Kelsey when I come in. I'm always the second one to come in on a Monday, Tuesday. And Kelsey's sitting there with her. Just the little glow of light, like, that's my angel.

Yeah, that's your range.

It's angel, Kelsey.

So it's your angel. To me, it's my creep factor. Because I walk in, I'm like, oh, my God. So but this time I came in and there was no one there. So I'm like, okay. And I start walking to my office. I grab my coffee, I walk. And there you can see just. Cause the sun is just coming up. A silhouette of her, like, looking out the window of my office, just watching the sunrise. And I'm like. With my coffee. I start bubbling my coffee because I thought it was like a murderer. I'm like. And I don't know. A lot of people don't know. This coffee is a wonderful defense technique.

You can splash it right into your.

You can splash on someone else. I accidentally splashed on myself, screaming even louder. And the perpetrator was Kelsey. And that's where I discovered you like.

To watch the My listener friend. We have this third story office space and you can look out and it's. You can actually see the Freedom Tower in New York City from the.

Such a good view.

So it's beautiful for sunrises.

Let's talk about our one on one meetings. I'm kind of jumping around our list here. We have one on ones for annual meetings, but you and I specifically will say, hey, let's just grab lunch and talk. Have we. I think we pulled in Amy once we snook her. We should get you in more often. And here's what I found. This is my perception. Those type of meetings that are impromptu are often the best meetings. Because there's no agenda. Because when there's an agenda in advance, there is a bias. Right, Right. So it's just an open conversation.

And I think an anxiety.

That's true.

You know, I think one thing that we strive for as a group is to not, I guess to rid the traditional sort of boss employee where I tell you what to do and you are reactive to that. It's more like, this is a community. How can we help each other? And so I like those sort of, you do a task and then I, you know, will come back at you for something you're doing right or wrong. I think it creates an anxiety when you don't know right or wrong. Right. Where this is like we just have a conversation.

I totally agree. I totally agree. I, you know, one thing I'm playing with is just ditching titles altogether. Actually, we don't really have titles here. What we do for job ads and we kind of sometimes will say, oh.

This is just to assist the outside.

Exactly.

Basically just to help them figure out who to get to.

Yeah. The problem is though, like, if someone's president or the boss or the owner, people placate into that person's right. Right.

I guess it doesn't help that I call you boss man or sir.

The best one. You call me sir. You're such a D bag. Because I think you're older than me. When's your. When's your birthday? What?

Yeah, I'm older than you.

What month?

I'm February.

Are you? You're old enough to be my mother.

I am your grandmother.

My grandmother now. So you're like a few months older than me.

I am. Yeah.

I think that feels so good.

You just turned.

I turned 47.

Yes.

September. September. Yeah.

And I'm on my way to 48.

Dude, I have arthritis in my freaking shoulder, all right? So shut your pie hole. I know. Listen, you Fought. You fought and beat cancer, whatever that bullshit is. Whatevs. Yeah, whatevs. Yeah, exactly. Stage whatever. Dude. I have stage, like, unoarthritis. Okay? Stage one arthritis.

It stinks. It really stinks.

Either you have. You don't have arthritis. You ever have arthritis? No. Okay. So is. It's painful?

My mother says it's terribly painful.

It's. You can't bend or anything. So I had arthritis only once before that I was aware of in my finger. So I was playing football. I went to catch the ball, and the ball hit it straight on. And what happened? It didn't jam. There is. There's this little, like, ligament that goes out like a spider web to the top of your finger, and it makes you. Allow you to pull your finger up. Like, you can curl your finger down. It's the ligament that allows it to curl up.

Okay.

It ripped off, which I didn't even know it could. And my finger went bloop. It started dangling. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Just a dangle.

So they had to do surgery and reattach it or.

No. So this is the weird thing. They put you in a cast on your finger. They bend your finger up, like, so it's arced up, so it has like, a reverse curve up. And they keep it like that for six or 10 weeks, something like that.

And eventually it Eventually.

Because when it's turned up, the ligament will kind of slide back over it and it'll start clamping back down on it.

Isn't the body amazing?

The body's amazing.

The body is amazing.

If you take this cast off for a second, everything's undone and you're screwed. And most people do. And so they have, like. You ever see someone with a droopy finger, they reach out and shake your hand, which is the most awkward shake ever. When someone reaches you.

Get it off.

Get it off, and you go for the shake. And their finger bends into your palm, and you're like, are you a creep? And you're like, no, I have limp finger. And you're like, what's limp finger? So I had to wear his cast. I wore it religiously, but when I take it off, the doctor only tells me that. He's like, oh, now you're gonna have severe arthritis in your finger. And I'm like, what? And you pull up and you cannot move your finger. And he goes, but it'll go away. It's temporary arthritis.

Oh, that's so interesting.

So I had it for about six months. And you have to slowly exercise it. And it is like, Maybe like needles. It's a very acute pain.

Huh.

So is there anything to be done for the arthritis in your shoulder?

More coffee.

All right, then.

More freaking coffee. Yeah. There's nothing to do, he says. Just physical therapy.

Yeah.

And just to build the muscle around it. He goes. Then the worst case scenario is they actually go in. They. They actually carve away the junk.

The junk.

But you know what I think about doing is hemp oil.

Yeah.

Or bullet coffees. You ever have a bullet coffee?

I have. Yeah.

What's a bullet coffee?

What?

It's like. You scared me. Mix it with, like, a fat. So coconut oil or butter.

Okay.

And then you drink it like that. It's supposed to. You absorb the nutrients that way better because the fat. Then your cells absorb the fat.

So then you absorb. Gotcha. Gotcha. Thank you.

So we're going through this exercise. We're like, what are all the times we use coffee? Right. You and I sat down. Because it's so part of our just daily rituals. Like, you don't.

Yeah. Think about it.

But we're right now some bullet points. And what do you think about this? The. The gestures of camaraderie and support. Like coffee does seem to be a ritual for that.

Yeah. And I can give Ron his coffee when he leaves it on the coffee maker or as soon as I finish his mind and I see he's there, I can just start his coffee. So then it's ready when he wants to grab it.

Yeah. So. Yeah. I think that's amazing. I think for when we have birthday cakes in here, which we don't do too often, which I actually appreciate. But we do do it when we do those birthday cakes and stuff. Fire up your coffee. Actually, in Amy's case, when she was diagnosed and confirmed cancer free, we cracked beer. That felt appropriate.

But I put the rest of my beer in my coffee.

Oh, you're the asshole. We also team. We do weekly team meetings. We often do that in my office.

Right. And for the purpose of team building. So we do an icebreaker just so that we get to know each other.

Everyone's got to do that.

And coffee in hand, it just sets the tone.

I agree. And I think, again, it takes away some of those roles and some of those traditional barriers that you might have. So I know you as a person as opposed to. I'm scared of you as my boss.

Yes.

I think most businesses miss out on that opportunity. There is no icebreakers. So I think what happens is actually not picking on nextiva. But this was reality. They called Me, last minute, when I was out in Phoenix, I was just going to meet up with Yaniv, the number two guy there, just for a casual meetup. He calls me the night before and says, hey, would you do a keynote to our sales department? I'm like, yeah, anything. So I come in, I'm doing a keynote during the keynote, and there's tons of people in this room. Thomas, he's the founder, owner, walks in, and you could just feel the wind in the office.

Yeah.

And he's like, I need to speak with you immediately, Nynaeve. And everyone's like.

And just changed.

And the energy just changed. And I actually made light of it because it was so dramatic.

Yeah.

Now, Thomas is an extraordinary guy. They're a wonderful organization. They're such good people. The thing is, he's the boss, and so there. There's this fear of compl. You got to comply, make sure you didn't do wrong. And he doesn't instill that. It's not like he's like this draconian kind of aristocrat cracking a whip. Yeah. He's not a crack whipper. Whip cracker. But I think what we do. I think that's really cool, is everyone shares personal updates at our huddle, but also our weekly meetings, we do this icebreaker, and I think there's some remarkable stuff that comes out of that awareness.

I agree.

What's your favorite?

Like, a fun atmosphere, too, you know.

What was your favorite icebreaker? Kels? That comes to mind. And Amy, do you have one?

I think the one. I think it was before you, Amy, but we did. What if you had to pick an age, what would your ideal age be?

Age you'd stay at, basically.

Oh, that was revealing, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, that is a good one.

You weren't there for that one.

No, I wasn't there for that one. I like Kelsey's. One of which other face would be on Mount Rushmore, sort of help lend or, you know, help illustrate for each of us who the other person finds exemplary.

And, you know, stay on that microphone there, would you?

Sorry.

That's okay.

Yeah.

You know what I thought was the best question ever was what you guys find most amazing about me.

I don't recall that.

And I said, I'll go first. I'll go first.

And we never. Nobody else got to go. I don't remember anybody else getting to go to narcissism.

I'm such a. I think I am a narcissist. I think there's a little bit of narcissism. It has to be.

I think everybody has.

That's a good point.

Everybody caves to that sometimes. But I think there's a very. It's different to be a narcissist where it is an actual disorder that you cannot kind of.

You don't have that.

Yeah, you definitely do not have that, do you?

Now I do want to talk about me. Do you like the beard, Amy?

Honestly, I love the beard.

Your husband has a beard?

My husband has a beard and I love it. And I love a salt and pepper beard. I think it looks so good.

Do you like the beard?

I do.

You do? Okay.

I prefer facial hair on anybody.

Me too.

I think it complements you very well.

Yeah.

Thank you.

It softens you. It's almost like warm. And maybe it's just like I feel.

Like I look older.

Maybe.

Maybe.

But not. I mean, because it's gray, not older.

Yeah, it's not like you look old.

More distinguished. I want to say older.

A little more intelligent. Maybe. Maybe.

Maybe.

Okay.

I don't know. You look awfully intelligent. Clean shaven as well.

Do you remember when Roger Dooley was on and he talked about the photo feeler? So you can put your picture up there and then people will rate and comment on it. So you can put one without your beard and one with it, and then it'll basically tell you, like, how you're perceived. So there's. There's different scales for business purposes and then for your personal purposes, photo feeler.

That's cool.

Have you ever heard the concept of split testing, Amy?

You were mentioning this to me recently and I was really surprised and impressed. I didn't understand.

I think many businesses should implement this. So split testing is basically where you put on a website two versions with beard without beard, and you watch people's inherent behavior. You don't tell them you're testing, you just run the test and you see which one draws the behavior you want. Maybe you want them clicking on a site you can do with anything you could do with coffee. It's kind of a blind taste test. You could have, you know, hazelnut versus French vanilla. And French vanilla would dominate, but, you know. But you can do this with anything. And so I did it with a wedding ring. And here's what I found so fascinating. I had a picture on my website, this is. Goes back eight years of me holding my first book, the Toilet Paper Entrepreneur. And I'm holding it in a way that looks like I'm reading to the reader and they can see both my hands and my wedding ring is on the developer was not Liz at the time. It was another person said, oh, you know what? If you want to be perceived as more attractive, you should not have a wedding ring. I said, okay. So we ran split tests. When there's a picture of me at the wedding ring, far more females would sign up than without. That was the. And so I was speaking with my wife and some friends. They said, oh, yeah, a wedding ring is a trust factor.

You're safe, you're less pervy. Yeah, yeah, you're safe.

Yeah, like. And that was the epiphany.

That's interesting.

You're not a total creep, just a little partial. Let's see what other things we do around here that people could benefit from.

Well, I think it's great for branding purposes. So one thing that we do is we give out mugs with our brand on it. And in your case, it was a supposed to be a brand for Clockwork. It was.

What was it? It's right there.

I have to read it because I can't think of it off my head. It's htcgsd. And my dear friend, do you know.

The acronym stands for Amy?

I do, but I just. Blanking. I'm blanking. Hold on.

You're not blanking.

Htc.

Shoot. Okay, could be hello, the first H. How are you?

Htc.

Yeah, it's an H and then a vowel for the first word. It's the letter H, of course. Then a vowel right after it. So it's A, E, I, O, U, Y. Sometimes Y. What do you think the first word is?

HGSD is get stuff done.

Yes. Okay. Yeah, you got that part. So I decided, you know, get stuff done puts you in the mentality of just workaholism. So I said, no, it's really about a group effort. So I came up with this, I think, radically innovative idea of adding three more letters to the existing three letter acronym. So HTC stands for have the company get stuff done.

Ah.

And it fell flat.

Oh, it's great. In theory.

It is.

The reality is nobody knows what it means.

It's so horrible. It's horrible. The domain. So I even bought the domain HC surprisingly, the domain was still available. Such a concise domain. So I bought it a year ago. It came up, Kelsey, for renewal this week.

I know, I let it go.

I was actually going to buy it and send it to you. I was going to.

That's funny. When you were on vacation, it came up for renewal and I was like, I'm not renewing.

Oh, it's so Funny. So I got a notice this weekend. I'm like, I'm just going to renew it to you, like your house. Give you a big sign for your house. Welcome to htcgsd.

Yeah. But anyway, it's great. So then we have trainings and things. We give everybody a mug for their coffee. So they make their coffee, they have the training, but it's a branded mug that they can take with them.

That's right.

And it's an amazing marketing piece when you have a good one. So the one I'm drinking out of right now is the tagline eradicate untrained poverty. But it's a profit first professionals mug. We give it to our members. People drink coffee every day. The best way, I think, to get a logo in front of someone is to give them something that they can use every day. And mugs, I think are the best promotional item of all time.

They have to be. They're constantly at everybody's desk.

Take them home.

And up at eye level. Right there.

Eye level.

Yeah.

What's your say? Don't. What's your say? Don't.

Don't let all the apologizing fool you.

Oh, don't let all the apologizing fool you. I'm a badass. Oh.

Guess where I got that from.

From McKelsey.

Yes.

You're awesome.

She made it.

You are a badass.

Thank you.

Why do this is. I think women apologize way more than men. What's going on here?

I don't know.

Do you apologize anywhere near as much as I do?

No, but I do it a lot.

You do?

Yeah. Particularly in, like, confrontational situations. I will always lead with an apology.

Yeah.

Because I think I always want it to come off non confrontational.

Yeah. And part of for me is that I work really hard in getting the ego removed from everything. So my fear, you know, the first act of war is defense.

Yeah.

So basically, like, if I remove that and I automatically assume responsibility for the problem, we can move forward and make a peaceful, you know.

The problem, though is martyrdom.

Martyrdom.

Martyrhood.

Martyrdom.

Martyrdom.

Yeah.

It's not martyrdom.

It's martyrdom.

You guys are asses. Asses. What was the other word I was saying incorrectly? You slam here. I don't know.

There's so many.

Well, I want this one on a T shirt too. Martyrdom.

Martyrdom.

Like Thunderdome.

Thunderdome. Martyr.

I want Tina Turner. A picture of Tina Turner saying what she say?

She's writing it down.

Tina Turner says, like, we need Thunderdome or something, you know, What I'm saying. So we need martyrdom.

Martyrdome.

So martyrdom. Martyrdom.

Okay.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

I didn't mean that. I didn't mean thank you. So martyrdom.

I think martyrdom would be to apologize for your.

I'm not going to. But I think, you know, we default to it as a defense mechanism, to your point. And. And then we're like, I can do no right. And I'm not saying that's how you behave. That's how I behave. I will go in with an apology and I'm like, I can do no right. And I'm experienced, smarter.

I guess that is something you have to watch for in. Yeah. In doing that.

But, you know, a cup of coffee in someone's face.

Sometimes I wonder because I feel like in every relationship, in every interaction, there's a little bit of a power, you know, dynamic one way or another. Right. So I think, particularly when I'm approaching somebody who I know is more of an alpha, needs to be dominant, or I perceive it that way, I will automatically lead. So it's like I'm catering to the role that they like.

Yes.

And sometimes I wonder, like, is that a good thing to do, or is that the exact opposite of what I should be doing?

I heard the best thing to do with someone like that is to actually punch them in the face. Not physically, but literally to come right back at them. Because I think it's a test. A lot of these people that are dominant, maybe, you know, like a presidential person right now, just comes in very dominant, and the way to squelch it is to hit back equally as hard, and then you build the definition of respect.

Yeah.

And I think the persons that are aggressive aren't necessarily doing it because they're trying to be harmful. They just want to see how's this other person going to, you know, subconsciously, how's the other person going to respond. Yeah, that's my thought. Okay. One more thing I want to talk about before we get off the topic of coffee is aroma. Amy starts out with this. She walks down, you smell the coffee in the house. It's party ritual, wakes you up. I think that's an important factor that is not considered. You can go through the mall and you walk by a Starbucks or whatever store selling coffee, and it just draws you in.

It's true. That's true.

It is true. And sometimes I will daydream about it, you know, and particularly, like, if it's raining, like, I just. I swear I feel like I smell it. You know.

Yeah, totally.

Just love that.

So I think in office, you know, we have the Keurig. It throws off an aroma every time a cup is made and someone brings it by and it starts this waterfall effect. Like, oh, yeah, Ron made his coffee and left there for an hour. But the aroma starts filling up and it's like, oh, I need to make my coffee. And it starts this, like, kind of march, march to the Keurig. It's become a congregation point. People go over there.

Yeah. And it's like an association with it. A new day. It's like a new start.

Yeah. And then discussions break out. I had a discussion with Ariel over there. She was making her coffee. I went over there. She's preparing hers, and I start mine. We're talking. She has an extension. She goes. She goes, you know what? She pauses as I'm talking. She goes, stop. She goes, this is my first ever water cooler conversation.

I'm like, oh, that's great.

She goes, I love that she noticed that.

Yeah. She goes, this really does happen. I'm like, yeah, there's not even a water cooler. Cooler here.

It's all about coffee.

Yeah, it's all about coffee.

I love that.

Me too.

All right, well, we want to know about your coffee experiences, too. Better being with eight o' clock Coffee, our new sponsor. With anyone else, we think it's garbage. We don't want to hear about it. I'm kidding. I just want to hear about your coffee conversations. And here's what we'll do. We'll reward you. We'll reward you. You go and post a review on itunes or Stitch or wherever you listen in. Tell us about your favorite coffee moments and give a review along with it. You know, whatever rating you feel is appropriate. Then email it to kelseykemicalitz.com that's K E L S E yikemicalitz.com give us your mailing address. You gotta be in the US that's the only deal I gotta make with you. And we'll send you a one of my books with a big coffee stain on it. How's that? Is that good? No. Okay, we'll just send you a book. You can add your own coffee stain. How's that? Is that better?

That works.

Although I feel like we should talk about having meetings here. Like, aside from trainings, you can have people here for coffee. So in your office, you have it set up as a nice little comfortable meeting space with couches and chairs, and you have your coasters that are significant.

To you, not to you.

I Mean to your brand. We'll say that. And so it's a great way, rather than meet people at a coffee shop, you bring them here and you have a quiet meeting where I feel like it's a little bit more personal. Productive.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right?

Yeah. It does start meetings off on the right foot every single time.

Yeah, yeah. And I just feel like it's a reflection of you.

And it's a way to be of service too. Right. So when someone comes, it's a way to be a gracious host, I should say.

Yeah.

May I get you a cup of coffee? How do you like your coffee? And then you get them the coffee.

Right Again setting the mood, though, the.

Losers, though, the losers go, I just want a cup of water. Oh, really?

Really.

All right, well, tell us about your coffee. Do we have any other coffee things that we.

No, I feel like that's good.

We nailed it. Okay, so we want to hear about your coffee experiences too, but we got a few other things to do, including we have a listener mail. Right. To share. We got a question. But first, this is our punch. Oh, God. It takes a long time to build. You gotta do here this punch. Just quicker.

But first.

But first, we're gonna talk about our corporate sponsor. Now, we have other ones, but I guess I can't talk about them on this episode. Or can I?

Well, this one's specific.

This is specific. Okay, so let's talk about eight o' clock Coffee. If you haven't figured it out, we were talking about coffee the entire episode. And I know no one noticed, but seriously, I love coffee.

Me too.

And too 8 o' clock coffee goes back to my childhood, actually. My parents drank eight o' clock coffee. They would buy it in the big tin and was it the label, like yellow and black at the time? I can.

I can still see Chock full of nuts.

No, no, I'm not thinking chock full of crap. No, I'm thinking of the good stuff, eight o' clock coffee. And my mother would open it and it had like a vacuum seal kind of the. The tins. And you hear, yes.

Yeah.

And then all of a sudden, this aroma would fill. And as a kid, she made me addicted to coffee. I didn't drink it until maybe I was in college, I think.

What do you mean she made you addicted to coffee?

Because I'd smell it every morning. So this is the best thing.

I get it.

It's a great smell. Such a good.

When's the first time you had your first. When's the first time you had 8 o' clock coffee.

First time I had 8 o' clock coffee was. I was young because 8 o' clock coffee had their Hoboken. 8 o' clock coffee had the Hoboken building. Oh, was awesome. And they make such a good. Such a good cup.

How old were you, do you think, when you had your first coffee?

Little, because that's where my grandparents were in Hudson County.

You were preteen?

I was preteen. That. That's why I am like I am today.

That's what happened. That's what happened. Kyle's your first eight o' clock coffee?

Well, I used to work at a bakery. I would open the bakery at three o' clock in the morning. Yes. I would go before school started in the morning, and I would open. And so that was my way of waking up, was to drink coffee. So I didn't drink coffee previously. Before that, I didn't really have a taste for it, but I figured that was the best way to get it. So I just started drinking it black because I was like, I don't even like the taste of it.

It's on Disney.

I just ate it for caffeine. But now I love it.

And you drink it black stuff? Yeah, I'm black, too. How do you drink yours?

Light and sweet.

Yeah. Nice.

You know, the funniest thing is that I started drinking coffee because I wasn't a big fan of coffee. I had a great fan of coffee. I loved the way it smelled. I always wanted to taste my parents, but I was never, like, sold.

Yeah.

But then in high school, our friends would go to the little grocer down the street. Everybody would go, yeah. And they'd all get their coffees and smoke their cigarettes before school. And I got. I never smoked, but I started.

You never smoked?

I never smoked, but I started drinking the coffee with everybody. So nice, these rituals, you know?

I love it. I love it. So that's eight o' clock Coffee. Where can they get more info on 8 o' clock coffee? California.

You can go to 8 o'clockcoffee.com.

That'S easy. I guess you use the number eight.

Yes.

And it's o' clock minus the. Is that apostrophe? I guess you wouldn't use the apostrophe because that will throw off the domain.

Right.

All right, Kels, I am out of sound effects because I'm on a different soundboard.

Oh.

So you'll have to. Amy, can you sing? What was it when we have listener mail.

So would you learn today?

That's right. Can you sing that for us? So we'll do. What did you learn today?

Wait, I have to sing that?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So what'd you learn today?

Oh, that was good.

Thanks.

That was really good, actually. Damn it. That bit didn't work out.

Yeah, you tried.

I was begging. She would mess up. She was actually beautiful. It was like a tear coming down. So what'd you learn today, Amy?

You know, the thing I was loving was we touched on it briefly and it was the way with our meetings and our coffee clutch little meetings is the way you learn role shifts too. I mean, we were talking about identifying strengths, some potential role shifts as we have these meetings. Sorry. Yes. And I thought that was really cool that it occurred to me that is the other. The other place, the other time that we get to do that during our little coffee club.

I love that. Okay, Kelsey, what did you learn today?

I think overall having informal meetings may seem insignificant, but I think it has a huge impact on the overall culture and overall happiness or fulfillment for working here, at least for me. I feel like it's a very different dynamic than any place else. And I think it's very much because we have these regular meetings that aren't about work necessarily, but it's more about just communicating and very much holistic perspective on each person.

Love that, love that, love that. I learned that I want to buy one of those mega straws that can reach for like 50 yards. And while you guys are sitting there drinking your coffee, I want to just leech it, reach over and leech out your coffee. Why? You don't notice? I think that just be a lot of fun. I also think that's a really good.

Idea, especially when you have guests here.

I know. Excuse me. Amy's coffee. I think also we should do a blind taste test with. With different flavors.

Yeah.

Oh, that would be fun.

Yeah.

Cuz we did that. We did do it once. We just did it with tequila.

Same dance, same six, Sam.