Episode 256: Creating a Culture that Works with Josh Levine

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Hello, friend. You can find us on itunes. Stitcher tunein radio Spotify, entrepreneurshipelevatedpodcast.com.

Get this all memorized.

Yeah. Or any podcaster anywhere, really.

And. Yeah, and Jaebone's also in the studio. Hello, Jay Bone. You should join. What are you shaking your head for?

Nothing.

What are you shaking your head for? I know, I'm pathetic. We should. We should put a band together, the three of us. I really think so.

Well, so it's. What's your name?

My name's Justin. Love is my stadium. Well, just Kelsey. And.

What's jbone's name?

J. Bone. Oh, do you think he has another name?

What did you call me before we walked in?

Jay Bonerous. No, Boneran.

It was a new one.

Bonester. I'm like, Jay Boners.

Something dumber than that.

Yeah, Jay Stroney's Jay Stromer. Yeah, I like that.

So, Jay Stromer, like, Stromer, what is the worst nickname that you were ever called? Like, you know, sometimes in that biting name. Mine, while you think about it, was, I played football freshman year, and I'm a lean slash very skinny guy. And back in high school, I was like, the skinniest guy, but I played football. And one day I was late for practice, and the coach goes, starts yelling, where's Stork? Where?

Oh, that's good.

Yeah. So my nickname was Stork, and I had a little bit of pride in that.

Yeah.

Until I held one leg up in the air, you know, like against my knee, like, you're doing that yoga pose, and I looked like a stork.

Yeah, yeah, I see it now.

Somebody asked my nickname. It's back.

Stork.

What was yours?

I think mine was Weasel. My brother always called me Weasel.

Your brothers. Oh, that's nice.

Yeah.

What was yours? Jayvon?

This is awful. Sperm.

Yeah, that is awful.

So this is Shout out to Marie's Lobster House in Seattle. The one of the chefs I work with, he started calling me Germ. I was like, I don't like Germ. And he was like, well, he's like, we gotta call you something. And I was like, nah, not Germ. And he. And so the next day he's like, yo, Germ bank. And then the next day was, yo, Sperm. Yo, Sperm bank. And then Sperm stuck. So now even to this day, when I see him, he's like, sperm, dude, that's stanky.

You get the worst nicknames.

Well, yeah, they're from people like you.

I know. Like, just jackwads like me, because the first time I was hanging out.

Jerry, maybe you just have the worst Friends.

You probably do. Yeah.

It's bad associations with everybody.

Jeremy went to sleep clean from Jeremy to Jay Bird for a while. And that was J Bone and Jay Boner and Jay Bonaris.

That's Jay Stroney.

Jay Stroney. Which is actually not bad. It's recovering. It comes out of that dip. Kelsey, do we have any listener mail or something?

We do. So this comes from Jilly Bean Crespo on itunes.

Jilly Bean, Like G I L L Y. Jilly.

Yeah, like her name is Jill.

Okay. Okay. Okay.

Rather than jelly.

I wasn't sure if you mispronounced jelly.

That could be too.

What do you call a morning meal? Not lunch, but breakfast. Do you really call it breakfast?

I do. I mean, I realize that that's not how you say it.

Okay. But that's how you say it.

Yeah.

Okay. You own that. So what does Jilly say?

So she says profit first was recommended and I am so glad we read. Takes everything scary about owning your own business and makes it not just easy, but fun. This podcast keeps me engaged and love it.

Jilly, Jilly, Jilly. Jelly, we love you. And Jilly, if you don't know, that's from. That's from Saturday Night Live with Gilly.

Gilly. Sorry, sorry.

I didn't mean to do it. You know, I do want to thank our corporate partners who make this show a reality. So thanks to Next Even Receipt Bank. We'll tell you more about those folks in a little bit. Plus, we got some exciting stuff coming up later after our interview. Now, the first thing we're going to do is interview our guest and then we're going to go off to do our game for the day. And I got three or four. I got two new ones. Like two new games.

Two new games. All together.

All together.

Wow.

Yeah, so. And then. But you guys will pick the game and then I do have a takeaway I want to share, and I think that constitutes an entire show.

Right.

Okay. His name is Josh Levine, or as you put it, Levini in the show notes here. But Josh Levine for more than 15 years and has helped build culture driven brands, and as a principal of Great Monday, continues his work with technology and social enterprise organizations. Every year, tens of thousands of culture professionals attend Culture Lab X events hosted by Josh and engage in deep conversation about advancing and advocating for culture as a strategic advantage in their business. I'll tell you, if there's one thing truly that separates our company from all the others, I think is our culture, you know, and that makes a company stronger. By an amplitude of two or three times, I think, versus people that are not engaged. Well, you're gonna learn how to do that for your business in about, you know, five seconds. Josh, welcome to the show.

Welcome, Josh.

Yeah, yeah.

I didn't get to choose that. I didn't get to choose that. But if I, if you had asked me what my intro music would be, it definitely would have been. Can't touch this for sure.

How important is culture? I mean, let's get right to the bone of it, the J bone.

I mean, it is, it, is that it is, it. I mean I, I go around to telling anybody who will listen that it's the, the only sustainable competitive advantage in business today. Everything else can be copied, everything else can be stolen. Your innovations, your ip, your, even your, your, your staff can be, can up and leave, but your culture cannot. And it's unique to your organization and is the thing that drives everything, all the choices that anybody inside your organization makes. So I would say pretty darn important isn't culture.

You know, I got the foosball table we're going to go out for. What would we do? Ice bumper boats? Is that what culture is?

No, culture is so much more. Those are relationship building activities and that's important, but it is. Culture is why you are in business. How you go about achieving that goal and all the ways that you can operationalize and activate that, engage people in a way that, that helps them be better people, more so self actualized and in that way more engaged and help the company become more profitable.

So do I just say, hey, I want my business to have a strong culture and I start developing it or how do I even go about the process? Or is it a process? It's just natural?

Yeah, no, it is definitely a process and that's. But your question is one that many people have asked, which is why I wrote, wrote the book Great Mondays is because it is such a fuzzy thing, right? You think about culture and you're like, I don't know, I mean let's, like you said, let's get some beer pong in here or whatever it is. And so I outlined six components of culture. And they are a system that helps, that provides the boundaries, like the edges so you can actually see what's happening and make the kind of changes that you need. And you know, I guess to answer your first question, which is I just want a good culture. Well, I would challenge that notion of there's really no culture that's going to be inherently good or bad. It's a Matter of what you want to achieve. So let's say you are going to pick a culture. I don't, I don't particularly, I'm not a fan of it. But you can't argue success, which is Amazon. So Amazon is like there's been many articles about how their culture, how they treat people or you know, the parents and you know, there's a whole sorts of stuff you can find out there. And you know, I'm not, I wouldn't want to work there, but hey, it works for them. So, so the question to really ask is what kind of results you want? Like what kind of company do you want? Do you want the output to be innovative? Do you want it to be efficient? Do you want it to be, you know, rapidly scaling? Do you want it to be creative? All those things, those different end goals are going to be determined kind of what you, how you're going to run your organization, of course.

Okay, so it does sound like a starting point. But I also presume it's very contingent upon the leader or the owner of the business themselves if they don't buy into it. I mean I've seen companies where the leaders like we're going to be the most friendly company ever and everyone follow my effing rules, otherwise I'll kill you. Like, you know, doesn't have to be, doesn't just have to be an immutable value or law within the leader, them leaders themselves.

The smaller the company, the more true that is. But I would say it's true across the board. I mean you've got modeling going on and the leader, the executive or executive team is going to be the most visible behavioral exemplar. And so if that person is not, I don't know, going along with the kind of culture that you want, it's going to be very difficult to change that. Now in larger organizations you're able to or one is able to change and influence the culture of their immediate surroundings. So let's say their business line or unit or team of, you know, five or six, so there's some insulation that can be provided. But a small organization, anything under 50 people, it's the leader is going to set the tone no matter what you do. That is essentially what people are going to emulate because that's what they see as the ideal and what is going to help them succeed.

And I assume this is something you can't fake it till you make it. Like you can't be a leader that says, you know, I want high energy and then you're a super low energy person or I want a laugh, a second type environment. But you're super serious. I presume. You got to leverage who you naturally are as a leader in a small company.

Yeah, I mean that's what naturally happens, right? It is what we call a founder's culture. And so you, you know, it is who you are and you can, as much as you can change. I mean, certainly a person is able to change. It's not, it's not easy, but I would say that's the, that's the corollary there is you've gotta, you've gotta be willing to learn and be flexible and improve. But it doesn't happen all at once. And so, yeah, it is definitely, you know, built into the founder.

So let's jump back to the six components that make up culture. Can you just bullet line or bullet point each one for me?

Absolutely. Purpose, values and behaviors are the first three. Recognition rituals and cues are the second three. So the reason why I break it up into threes is that the first three are about the design of the culture, setting the expectation around what you hope to achieve and the second three are how you activate that culture. So if you just put your corporate values on the wall but don't hold people accountable, ain't nothing going to happen, right? There's a big gap, right? You can't just go, okay, that's it. Yeah, it's got to be built into everything. And that's the challenge that most organizations find is the, is the, just apply the rigor to actually make that happen. So I can quickly, let me quickly just sort of list out what they are. So purpose is your why, why you're in business beyond making money. What is your goal? I am sure that you've talked about this at some point in your broad and varied history about why people should go to work. Because entrepreneurism is really hard and we better figure out why we're doing it because sometimes it ain't for the money all the time. We want that. But purpose is, you know, what we, what we're doing here in the world. So that's the, that's the top of the mountain, right? That's what you're looking for and that you need to articulate and communicate for, for everybody else in the organization. And then values is how you go about doing it. If, if the top of the mountain is why, how is how we're going to get there. They are the guardrails for behaviors, what we prioritize, what we're working on, what is and how do we need to codify those? And then those two together, if you sort of string, you know, create a line in between those two, that's behaviors. Behaviors are the choices we make every day. That's the center point of culture. That is why we're doing this, is because we're trying to help people make better decisions, better business decisions. So that's the first three. That's how we create the design and then recognition. As mammals, we love to be recognized. So if we can identify what values aligned behaviors are, are, then that is what we need to say, hey, good job, Mike. You did X, Y, and Z. You were creative, you were innovative, whatever that was that you were shooting for. And everybody goes, ooh, he's getting rewarded for that. And that's going to be the. That's what everybody goes, I want to be rewarded for that. You know, in there, even in their, like, brain. Right. And you're sort of primitive brain. Like, that's what you're looking for. And that's. That is. That is the goal of it.

It's like you're flying the wall, by the way. So at. When someone recognizes me, everyone goes, so you know our culture inside now.

Exactly, exactly. I could feel it coming through the computer. And then rituals are how relationships are built and strengthened as an organization grows, which some of your listeners may understand the pain of. It's very hard to scale culture. And the challenge is trying to really stay connected with everybody inside your organization. So rituals are how we actually do that in a more formalized way. And then cues are the ways that we actually stay afloat, above all the craziness that are deadlines and emails and quarterly budgets and all of that other stuff. So cues are the physical and behavioral reminders of what we're all trying to do here together. And that leads us back up to values, purpose and values at the top.

Gotcha. So the activation was recognition rituals and cues. I see how it becomes this perpetual loop. What about that employee that just doesn't fit in. I've experienced that. I've been that guy. Actually. It was almost just. I'm recollecting my own situation was almost. It was palpable. I could feel it without anyone saying it. I didn't belong here. What do you do when that's happening? Is that someone you should try to embrace further? How do you figure out their cultural fit? Like, what do you do when someone's not fitting in?

Yeah, that's a great question. There's a bunch of different ways that someone can or Cannot fit. And I would say what you're looking for to kind of take it from the other side. If you're hiring, you want to look for people who believe in the. In the purpose, but also are connected to those values, can move towards those and say, yeah, that's something I can get behind. If you're just not the kind of person that believes in the way that. That a company is doing business or is just not feeling that they are, they belong there, then, yeah, it might. It might not be a good fit. My tendency as a leader would be to attempt to connect with that person. How can I support them better and figure out if there is a better way to have them connect? I mean, because maybe it's not. Maybe it's not a misfit. Maybe it's just they're in the wrong role. So, you know, you can't just say it's a fit or not.

It was funny. I was watching the documentary on Mr. Rogers recently.

Oh, yeah?

Have you seen that yet?

No, I haven't.

So it's fascinating. They interview a lot of the employees that work there. And this one guy who they interview is clearly not a fit in regards to how he cares himself. He's like a biker guy. He's got tats. He was. He would do things behind the scenes, like that would freak out Fred Rogers. Like, he would moon. They take. They would steal cameras that Fred Rogers was using to take photos of puppets and stuff. And he would, like, take a shot himself mooning the camera and. But he fit in. Like, Fred Rogers would actually laugh about it. In this one pinnacle scene of the documentary, this guy said he thought he went too far. He took a picture of himself mooning, wearing one of Fred Rogers crowns, like one of those king crowns he had found and mooning the camera. And Fred Rogers said nothing about it. Nothing for months. And he's like, oh, my gosh, I'm gonna lose my job. On his birthday, Fred Rogers gave him a gift which is a poster, and it was a poster of that picture. Is that what cultural fit is showing? You know, here's a guy who was pretty straight and square, you know, Fred Rogers, Josh, Mr. Rogers. Is that showing culture where you as a leader also have this kind of flexibility to embrace what other people values are bringing to the table?

Yeah, of course. You want to have a diversity of perspectives. It's what makes life interesting and work all the better. And so that's why there is such a gosh, well, out here in Silicon Valley. There is such consternation around this idea of culture fit. Yeah, because what that has turned to mean is like the sort of monoculture where it's like you hire your friend and that person hires their friend, and it's just. It is not good. It weakens the entire organization. So how do you actually bring in a diversity of thought and perspectives? And if you can respect one another and understand the values that they bring, I think all the better.

Okay, so I'm hearing don't bring in your clones, but there's got to be some kind of commonality between people.

Yeah, yeah, of course. I mean, it's, It's. I think that there is a shared belief in the purpose of the organization, what we're trying to do for the world. I mean, that is going to be the best filter or attractor talent magnet, if you can articulate that. And it's just, it is why we are here. So one of the examples I give is the company Patagonia. When I say, okay, imagine the kind of people that work at Patagonia, I think we all know who's working there. It's people who love the outdoors. Moms, dads, young kids. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter where they're from. They love and respect the outdoors. That is the bottom line. You just know it. And that's what I hope for most organizations to figure out is what. What is a purpose so clearly defined that people find you and find that commonality, even if they, Even if you don't have tattoos and they do and they come from somewhere else, it is a shared belief in the goal of the organization.

And where can a listener right now that's running a business, where can they get started in building a strong culture in addition to reading your book? Because we're going to talk about that in a second.

Very good. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, it does start with. It does start with your purpose. It does start with values and uncovering what it is that you. You believe. So it's not creating, inventing something. It is. It is really about discovery. And so what are you. Why are you here? What is the goal that you're trying to achieve now? It's not easy to figure out, but it is powerful once you do. And so if you can start to think, this is one of the exercises in my book. It's called the obituary exercise. 25 years in the future, your business shuts down. Doesn't matter. No matter why. Write two to three short paragraphs that describes what you did for the world. Why will the world remember who you are and that's where you start to get to that bigger picture of what are we really trying to do here? What is your ding in the universe and how have you done that? That's where you start to uncover some of these ideas and that's your why. And the other piece that I, when I work with startups and small organizations and we say, okay, well let's talk to the founders or let's talk to the, to the executive team and say, what is it that you value? What is most important to you? And we help them to figure out what the three to five most important things, most important hows are and apply that. And that's, that's when you're starting to, you're starting to draw out the map and say, this is where we're headed, this is where we're going. So if you don't codify your beliefs, if you don't write them down, then how are you going to scale that? How are you going to share that with people?

So let's talk about the book. So Great Mondays. First of all, awesome title because everyone's like, sucky Monday. Monday sucks. Great Mondays. What inspired you to write a book? I'm happy you did, but what inspired you?

Right, because it was so easy.

Right, right, exactly. Walk in the park.

Yeah, exactly. It was. I think there's two parts to that answer. One is I'm an entrepreneur. I run a consulting business. Consulting people services. Business is very hard. It's a magic unscaling business model and it's just a crappy business model. And so in order to actually, you know, get my, get the word out about us and what we do and to create a steady stream of inbound inquiries is, is to create this knowledge, this sort of symbol of the thing that we care about. And a book is hard to do, which is why it's well respected. So that's one piece is really the business development piece of it which I don't usually share but I feel the, the forum is appropriate for it given, given the listeners. And then the other piece is because I believe in this, this is my purpose. I want to help more people be happier at work and in life. And that is the, I mean to me that is why I do what I do and I need to get this message out there and it's, it is, it is, you know, my life's mission to help more organizations, help people really become more self actualized, have create meaning in their lives through work. We spend so much time, we've spent more waking hours with our coworkers than we do our family.

That's what I want to think about. Isn't that remarkable?

It's crazy. And it's like, how can we if we are in. It was not always possible, to be clear. It was not always possible to choose the kind of work that you wanted to do 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 40 years ago. We were not in the same kind of place. We were. We are now in our economy, but now we've got remote work. We've got this gig economy. We've got all, you know, record low unemployment. There is a lot of options out there for what you want to do. And so we have the responsibility to choose the incredible gift to choose to do something that means something, that we love. And that is what I believe very deeply and why I spent two years writing a book and am trying to just get the word out. It's like there's hope and there's meaning out there and people should find it.

Absolutely fantastic stuff you're doing. Josh, before we let you go, where can people find out more about the book specifically? And maybe you have another website for yourself.

It's all there@greatmondays.com Every exercise is available for free for download. You can sign up for one minute Mondays, which is our monthly very brief emails that go out with culture building tools and all sorts of stuff. We've got a mini course launching at the end. A little bit later in the year, I'm going to be doing a whole three months worth of culture design courses. So sign up and we'll let you know all about that and a bunch of discounts as well.

Josh, thank you so much. All right, hang tight. We'll talk to you in a little bit. And my dear listening friends, definitely check out Great Mondays by Josh Levine. It's on Amazon. Check out his website. He's also an acclaimed writer for Huffington Post, Fast Company Design Management Journal. Check out the stuff he's doing online. It's some amazing stuff. All right, Kelsey, In a second.

Yeah.

Did you just jam gum in your mouth?

No.

What's that? You have gum too?

I didn't hear that.

What are you guys doing? We're doing a live broadcast. You guys are ramming gum in your mouth.

Nobody would know we have gum if you didn't say anything.

The way you're chewing, dude, it's like. It's like Jay Bone has a spitter in his mouth. There's a wad of gum and you're talking between the side of your mouth.

Patootie.

You guys Are out of control. Oh, don't worry. This is a very important show. Let's chew gum on the air. God, you bastard.

I'm not really sure why that's so absurd.

It is absurd. Have you ever listened to any radio show where they start chewing gum on the show?

Dear listener, can you hear me chewing then?

You.

You can.

I can barely hear you between the spittle slaps there.

That's you.

Oh, it was me.

Spittle slaps? Yeah.

Didn't you hear that? Well, it's disgusting. Okay, you both disgust me. So here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna recap what we learned. We have an elevation point or you had a different term. What was the term jaybone had? It was. Oh, it was horrible. No. Yeah. Okay.

Why would you bring that up?

I don't know. And we have a game for you today. But first, I do want their corporate partners for making this show the show that it is. It's receipt bank and nextiva, the two stalwarts. Do we even know if we're receiving money from receipt bank anymore? Are we just saying their name over and over?

I have no idea.

I don't think Steven did, because I recently looked at the accounting and I saw them. They're faithful. Yeah, I think receipt bank has been on for a free ride for a while because I don't think we've asked them or reminded them it's time to renew up. But you know what? We'll thank them anyway. You know, receipt bank is. I use it today. You know what? You order that sush? I went over there, which here's an issue with the sushi. I was walking down. Did you call right when I left?

Yeah.

Okay, that's what I assumed. I walked down the steps. I went to the post office. Going from here to the post office. Three minute walk.

Yeah, maybe.

Maybe I then wait at the post office to find this package that's missing 3 minutes, 4 minutes, and they can't find it. Then they say, we'll call you. Then I did the, what, one or two minute walk to the sushi shop. Cumulative, that's eight, nine minutes, right? I get there, I'm like, I'm here for the pickup. And they go, oh, when did you pick? When did you order? I'm like, think Kelsey just called. Oh, yeah, she just called. And I'm like, it'll be 10 more minutes. I'm like, she just called. They. They were sitting on that order.

I think that's why I go there now. Like, I don't even call an order. I go there because I feel like it comes so much.

They deprioritize you.

Yeah.

No, what they do. This happened to me. I waited an hour for pick up sushi. An hour.

And for this at the sushi house?

Well, no, where I live.

Oh.

And it was really good. But, like, the girl was like, oh, I lost the order. And then she was like, I want to make it. Make it fresh for you. So I said, well, I'm gonna leave again.

Yeah.

And I'll come back.

Yeah.

And then I came back and she's like, oh, I didn't. I didn't do that because I was waiting for you to get. I was like, it's been like 45 minutes.

You're, like, starving to death.

Yeah.

Oh, my God. That's perfect for your new diet, though. Just go to your sushi place. They'll never feed you. Well, I was there. I used receipt bank. And I'll tell you one thing.

Yes.

The only thing that was fast, that entire experience was the use of receipt bank. It scanned right in, no problem.

Way to bring it around.

I also like to talk about nextiva a lot. Nextiva's a voiceover IP phone system. Jbone. Do we have him? Have him one yet? Yet one?

I do. I have the deluxe model.

Do we have him one yet?

Do we have you one yet then? It's an amazing phone. Did you hear the new feature?

They have the true voice.

Oh, no, that's. That's old hat. But that's true. True voice makes you. It sounds like a real voice. No, the new feature is call another phone. So you can actually call another phone. They just released that.

Amazing. Yeah, I think that's the model I got you.

The dial a sequence of numbers to identify the other phone. Like, almost like a Social Security number, you know, three for the area code and a three and three and four.

Wow.

Yeah, I know.

So novel.

I think nextiva invented that.

Smart.

All right. Hey, we want to know what you think about our corporate sponsors, so you can leave that in our reviews. All right, what else we got? Kelsey, what's the. Should we have a game?

Yeah.

Okay. Josh, do we still have you, or are you, like, totally befuddled and want to leave?

I am here and so ready for whatever game you throw my way.

Okay, well, as tradition, I think Kelsey picks the game. We have what's called Pure Cheese Quotes. We've done this one before. Pure Cheese Quotes. These are four quotes. One of them is my quote, one of them is a fortune cookie. And Two are legit people. We have name the fake product. That's my favorite of all time. And then the new one today is the original name of a company. So I'll say a company like Apple Computer. But Apple Computer was originally called, like, you know, Jobs and Company or something. And there's, you know, four real ones and one fake one. You have to figure it out. Which one do you want to do? You want to name the company? Do you want the pure cheese quotes or do you want the product selection?

I want to do the new one.

Okay. All good. All right, so, Josh, this is how it works. I'm going to read off four existing company names. I'll tell you what they are now. Walmart, Exxon, Nike, and Amazon. So you can't Google this, by the way, my friend. I will then say what the original name was and let me go through all four. Then you identify which is the fake one.

Okay, got it.

Jeremy, multiple choice. This is not a vote. You each individually pick. Okay? Okay. And Josh will go first. Then we'll go to J Bone, and then we'll end with you, Kellis.

Okay.

Okay. Walmart was originally called Walton's Five and Dime. Okay. Exxon was originally called Nexicon Fuel and Oil. Nike was originally called Blue Ribbons. I'm sorry, Blue Ribbon Sports. I don't know why that made me laugh. And Amazon was originally called Kadabra. Do you want me to do that one more time or do you guys get that? That. So Walmart was originally called Walton's Five and Dime. Exxon was originally called Nexicon Fuel and Oil. Nike was originally called Blue Ribbon Sports. And Amazon was originally named Cadabra. But not said like that.

Just Cadabra. Not Abracadabra.

No, no, not Abracadabra. I'm gonna reach out and grab you. All right, Josh, what do you think is the fake one?

Well, you know, I. I know the origin story of ebay. And so I'm just trying to think, like, in all the reading about Amazon, did they. Were they ever Kadabra? And did you say Abracadabra?

Were they ever.

No. Were they ever Kadabra? I don't. I don't think so. I don't think Amazon. I think Amazon was straight Amazon from the get go because it was a URL play. And it was also about scale, the size of the forest. So I think. I think the false lead here is Kadabra.

Oh, well, okay. That was good, Jeremy.

Yeah, I agree.

Okay. Wow. And Kels, I Thirdsies.

My only. I thought for A second maybe. Was the Blue Ribbon Sports because of your laughing?

Yeah, because he's.

Yeah, exactly. He has a habit of laughing at himself.

When I write the names, I often start laughing. You're like some fun. So here's the big reveal. Amazon was originally called Kadabra. Founder Jeff Bezos knew he needed a new name, though, after his lawyer. This is true story. Misheard him over the phone and thought he said cadaver. The sign name would have to begin with an A in order to be prime positioning in a phone book.

That's smart.

Bezos settled on the name of a South American river. Amazon. Wow. And because he wanted to be the biggest in the world to. To Josh's point. Okay, the other pseudo guess was Blue Ribbon Sports. Nike was originally called Blue Ribbon Sports. Employee named Jeff Johnson read an article in an in flight magazine about the secret behind great brand names such as Kleenex and Xerox. He decided they should have a name with two syllables and proposed to Phil Knight, the owner, that we use Nike. Nike. I'm sorry. Phil Knight was less than enthused, but relented and said, let's do it. It interesting. Okay. Walmart was called Walton's Five and Dime. He acquired a department store owned by a guy named Luther E. Harrison in Bentonville, Arkansas, opened it as Walton's Five and Dime. Ultimately came Walmart. The fake was Exxon. Exxon was not called Nexicon fuel and and oil. It actually came from the unification of Enco and Esso, which were two different fuel suppliers, and they formed Exxon.

Well, well bluffed.

Yeah. Yeah, well bluffed. Right?

That was a good one.

Yeah, Good. I'm proud of myself. I finally got you guys.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well bluffed. Right?

Well done, Josh. You just gave me a great Monday. I just want you to know that. All right, Kelsey, do we have. What do we have next? Listener mail or.

Yeah, exactly.

Oh, my God, we forgot to do that. Okay, so, Josh, you got to be quiet during this because we're going to talk about you, okay? All right. I want to know. Jaybone, you want to go first? You never got to go first. What did you learn from Josh?

To life straight out the gate. Culture is the only sustainable competitive advantage. Yeah, that was my favorite. And I did have a little thing that popped in my head with this look when he said Patagonia, that really stuck with me because I shop at rei. I love rei. The customer service is amazing. I actually applied for a job to fix bikes at REI because I wanted to just be around those people. So Much and learn. And I thought, hey, I get to learn how to fix bikes and I get to be around these cool people.

Yeah.

So, like, I think. Yeah. If you think about that way, they.

Weren'T a good fit for them, though.

Yeah.

They didn't pick me.

You were tough. Could you please talk into the microphone?

I don't actually want people to hear that.

Yeah, but when you burn me, you talk to my. When you burn J Bone, you're like. You lean away.

It's because of her gum.

Yeah, you're gum.

Exactly.

Gum, gum, mouth.

Oh, you're such an ass. Okay, That's a good one. Anything else, Jayvon?

No, that's it. Just like. Yeah, I like the. You know, when you think Patagonia, you know. Exactly. I think if you can put it in perspective that way it's easier for companies to strategically try and figure out.

How to make a culture like it. What do you got, Kal's?

Yeah. Mine's along the same lines. I think that Josh is absolutely right when he says it's the only sustainable business practice like this. Working here, I think, is the first place that I never even have an inclination to leave because I love the culture, because I love our purpose, because I love the people that we work with. Because I feel like multiple levels is like I'm pursuing my own purpose on multiple levels. By pursuing your purpose along with all of our co workers, you know?

Yeah. And I think you're fulfilling your purpose. Like.

Yeah.

I think you're. Of all the people's that I know. Individual purposes, all the people just let me flow through. It's so funny. You're chewing gum and all of a sudden, when you laugh at me, you can lean into it, but otherwise you can't. God, you're such an ass. And I was gonna give you a flattering comment. Why do I even care anymore?

Please continue, sir.

So I was gonna say, of all the peoples here, that I think you have the most. The deepest impact purpose. Like you are helping people or out to serve people in the most deepest. The most deepest, the most deep way possible. I think it's pretty miraculous. And I'll tell you, if you ever try to quit. What was that movie when the guy's sitting outside the woman's. His girlfriend's thing with say Anything. Say Anything.

John Cusack. Yeah.

I would do something similar. It does a big speaker up there, and I would play. I don't know what song would, like, get you to open the window and, like, look out.

I don't know what song I'm not gonna tell you.

I don't know. Probably. I would probably play one of the duets we've done together. I just probably hold it up there and just start blasting, and all your neighbors come out like, what are you doing? Like, she left the company. She's coming back. And I would do that forever.

I'm not leaving. Don't worry.

You actually made me nervous when you're like, oh, maybe good. And you can't either, J Pop. I would do the same for you, dude. I just sit there just playing music. Who is that? You'd be like, that's my boyfriend. So I. My takeaway is self actualized. That, you know, it's about self actualization. That. That's the. The role of a strong company culture is for people to achieve self actualization, which, by the way, sounds like a Maslovian reference. Right? Maslow's hierarchy, the fifth level is self actualization. That's where we're living into our deepest meaning in life. Which also means, by the way, the company, I think, has a responsibility to support the colleagues at the company at the different levels of Maslow's hierarchy to ensure that there's income and other things to satisfy their base needs. They can move to self actualization. That was my big takeaway.

Yeah.

All right, do we have a listener mail or question?

We do.

Oh, let me hit a little music for that. All right, let's hear it.

Oh, so that's not even funny. I don't know.

Yeah, but you're all giggly.

I thought you were gonna play the male pattern baldness one.

Oh, I don't have that anymore. I deleted that for some. I do have a recording of Josh, though, with his team. Do you want to hear that?

I'd love to.

So, Josh, I don't know if you knew this. One thing we do which I think is unique about our podcast is we often send out, like, secret shoppers. So we know you have some colleagues. We had an employee come in there, and this was your speech. The first day of this employee's first day on the job. The first five minutes of the employment. Here's you talking to them.

Do it.

Just do it.

Yesterday you said tomorrow, so just do it.

It's very motivational, right?

That's amazing. I didn't realize. I didn't realize that you.

What movie is that from?

Spying on you.

I don't know. You don't know? I don't know. I'm such a jerk. I'm sorry, Josh. All right, what do we got, Kels?

So this comes from Todd Olson. He writes, I own my own building and pay myself rent each month. This is both a business expense and a personal draw. Not sure how this fits into the scheme of your numbers.

Oh, hey, Todd. You know, Todd and I were emailing back and forth about this question, and there's some intricacies going on here that we need to address. He owns a building, and he pays himself for that, for rent. The idea is that when you incur that as an expense, it reduces your tax consequences. The question I had for him, I said, are you paying yourself as a. As a paycheck, like a draw, or are you doing it as a true expense to another llc? And he's like, no, I'm doing as a draw. I don't know. And this is where you got to talk with an accountant. I don't even know if that's legit. Like. Like, if a company can pay you as a person personally on behalf of renting space and not recognize that as income, I don't think actually that's even legal. I don't know. So I told him, I said, speak with an accountant immediately. Typically, how this is formed is when you own a building, you set up a company for it, an llc, a holding company. So it could be Todd Olson Corporate Buildings llc, as an example. And he would then write a check to that business, that business would receive his income, and then the business would incur expenses around it, reducing his tax consequences. So that's how you address it, Todd.

Oh, that's a lot better than my chewing.

You are really. God. What else I got for. I got an elevation point. You want to hear it?

Oh, yeah.

So, heard a quote recently, says, when you're through changing, you are through. When you're through changing, you are through.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah. I thought that was really cool. And I realized that in myself and other people, and maybe you've experienced this, too, is when you're no longer willing to grow or mature or try things out or put yourself out there in the limit, and you start getting stuck in a pattern. Game's over. Right? So really not much more to say.

Besides, I love that dubois said something very similar. Like, I think it's. You have to be willing to always let go of the person you were. You are today to become the person you're supposed to be tomorrow. Like, you have to always be willing to not be stuck in yourself. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. So I thought that that's my takeaway for today. That's your elevation point. All right. And you know, we got your sister Delaney. We gotta get her on the show or something. Would she come on the show one day?

She probably would love it.

Let's line her up. I think here's what I like to do.

Yeah.

I want her to start because you always pick on me so much. You have so much fun.

Oh, she's the worst. She's gonna pick on me.

I just want her to start sharing some stuff from your childhood, you know?

Yeah.

So let's get Delaney on the show. What you think that'd be fun, Jayvon?

Yeah. I don't know who that is, but.

Sister. It's her sister.

Oh, okay.

So we found out we have at least one listener now.

She is bitey.

I tell you, she's bitey.

Yeah.

We have one listener that we're sure of. Is Delaney.

No, Jordan, my sister Jordan. She's a nice girl.

Oh, Delaney doesn't listen. I don't want freaking Delaney on the show. Screw her.

She follows our Instagram. But oops, she's an ass.

How many sisters do you have?

Two sisters and a brother.

Let's get Jordan on the show.

Yeah.

Is she biting?

No.

Oh, no.

Sweet.

Kelsey, get your entire family on the show.

Listener. You really want that, right?

Yeah. All right, let's get the hell out of here. We're good, right? Is that everything?

Yeah, that's everything.

All right, take a second.

But don't forget to leave us a review. And subscribe.

And subscribe.

Thanks, everybody.

Do you have anything else? Any other one liners you want to say?

That's it. But should they get your book searched?

Yeah. Do I supposed to share this? I think I do. Right?

Yeah.

Okay, so here's what Kelsey was trying to say. Sign up for Surge and get for free. You go to mikemcalowitz.com and right now we're giving the book away for free. When's this going live, Kal? In April, June? Oh, I don't even know if we'll have a website by then anymore, quite frankly. But try go to mikemotorbike.com that forwards you to mikemikalowitz.com it may say get the tools and you'll get a whole suite of tools that we have to offer. And if it doesn't say that, it'll say get Surge and get them for free. So go do that. Okay, that's it. We'll see you guys later.

Bye. Thank you.