Episode 64: Married to Mayhem Part Two with Matt Perosi, Jamie Doughty & Krista Michalowicz

You are listening to a special edition episode of the Profit first podcast, episode 60.

Insanely number four. 64. 64. Whoa.

Messed it up.

Oh.

Geez.

Putting this one together is hard on.

Welcome everyone, to the Profit first podcast. I'm Chris Curran. I'm the founder of Fractal Recording.

And I'm Mike McAllister, author of Profit First. And you're listening to the Profit first podcast where we talk about every perspective of profitability. And today o it's already been a doozy just getting set up for this one. It's going to be some wild stuff.

This is special. You can hear our show on itunes and Stitcher and Tunein Radio and our website profit first podcast.com on this episode.

Today we are doing Married to Mayhem episode two. You know, this was the most popular episode we've done, actually the number two most popular episode we've ever done. And what we're going to explore is what's it like to be married to an entrepreneur and still as the entrepreneur run a profitable business. Now I got some special guests here. The most special in my life. It's my beautiful wife, Krista Michalowicz. Welcome to the show, hun.

Thank you.

Welcome back.

Well, yeah, welcome back to the show.

It's good to be here.

And also on the show I have Matthew Perosi and his husband Jamie calling in from France. Gentlemen, welcome to the show.

Hello. Great to be here.

Hi, everyone.

So wait, wait, wait, wait. No opening fanfare. I mean, normally doesn't everybody get fanfare?

Yeah, no, we were. Listen, here's the deal.

Yes, Matt and Jamie are with welcome to the show.

Welcome to the show. No, I mean, I was, I was looking for something like this.

Yeah, no, we were going to do fanfare and all this stuff. What people don't know listening to this recording is that it literally took us over a half hour, almost a half hour to get set up because of technical issues. So we're kind of racing to catch up here. But no. So why we wanted you gentlemen on the show is a different perspective to be married to an entrepreneur. So why don't you share a little bit background, how long you guys been married and so forth. And let's get digging into it. So Jamie, from your. How long have you been married to Matt?

We've been married for over a year. We got married in April 2014. So we're about a year and a half now.

Yeah, but we've been together for, what is it, 11 years. 12 years.

12 years.

So Jamie, what attracted you to an entrepreneur Not Matthew per se, but the entrepreneurial side of Matthew.

Oh, that didn't at all at the beginning, really.

Oh, here we go.

That had nothing. That didn't play any role in the attraction whatsoever. As a matter of fact, for the first few years, it was probably one of the more difficult aspects to deal with was the entrepreneurial aspect of it. Just because he always was working and his schedule was so mixed and mine was not. I had a normal. Well, relatively normal schedule at the time. I was a student. So, you know, there were just certain days when I was free, certain days when I was not. So, no, no. The entrepreneurial spirit or aspect of him was by no means anywhere on the top. Things that. Oh, I need to go for that.

Yeah.

Is it. Is it something on the other side? Is it something like. Like marrying someone with maybe a fatal disease or something like that that you know that maybe it's going to compromise your relationship or they're not going to be around forever? I mean, is there a negative association with marrying someone that's an entrepreneur?

At the beginning, I would have thought that, yes. If you had asked me at the beginning of our relationship, I would have probably said, oh, God, run away, run away, don't do it. You're just getting yourself into all sorts of rollercoaster rides.

But that's not what he was saying at the beginning of our relationship.

That's not what he was saying, right?

No.

At the beginning of our relationship, I kept telling him, you probably don't want to be with me. And he kept saying, yes, I do. Yes, I do.

It's like, okay, that had nothing to do with the entrepreneurial aspect of it. That's something else we're talking about. You're being a business owner side. But now I would definitely say it's led to essentially what we have going on now, which makes what we have now work. For those of you who don't know, I live in France full time, and because Matt's an entrepreneur, actually he's able to spend half his time here with me in France and half the time back in the States.

I'm constantly traveling.

If he were working a typical 9 to 5, Monday through Friday, he wouldn't be able to do.

So you're saying it's offered flexibility to spend more time together?

Oh, absolutely. In the long run type thing. But at the beginning, and there are definitely ups and downs, and it's definitely something you have to.

Well, I mean, at the beginning, I was married to my business. I was totally married to my business, and this guy and it took many, many years for me to divorce my business and realize that other things had to take priority.

I mean, is it really a divorce, though? I mean, do you really. You didn't walk away from your business. You're still so actively involved.

Well, I had to reboot my business in such a way so that would allow me to have the freedom to travel back and forth. And that ultimate reboot day was, in fact, April 30, 2012, because that's the day Jamie made me choose between either the company or him.

Oh, Chris, what are you thinking? You're making hand signals at me already.

It's an open business.

Yeah.

What was it you had to make room for others?

What was the reboot? Was there an ultimatum or something?

Yeah, because we were. The previous format of the company, the way that we were operating wasn't profitable, although we were struggling to make it profitable. During my last podcast with you guys, I was explaining how we had this line of credit from the bank, and the bank called that line of credit. And when they called it, I think it was 2010. Jamie, do you remember what year that Was? Was it 2010?

I would say closer to 2011.

Because after they called that loan. Well, first of all, we had the problem because that loan was with the same bank we had all of our cash accounts in. So they just kept siphoning money off of all of our accounts. So every dime we made, they were taking it to go towards that loan. So we really had a financial trouble getting through that was pretty much a hardship. And that was foremost on my mind every single day. It was like, well, if I can't get through this, Jamie's not going to stay with me. And if I can't figure out this financial situation, Jamie's not going to stay with me. And ultimately, he said, I can't deal with the stress of not knowing if this business is going to work. So he's like, choose between the business or me.

But there was also the fact that we hadn't seen each other in a very long time as well.

That's true.

At the time, I was a student in Bordeaux. I was doing my Master's. So, you know, I was on student salary, which was, you know, just enough to cover the rent. So I couldn't have the money to be able to fly back and forth. And essentially, because of all the other financial issues going on, it was difficult to see one another. And I think we went. It was our. Probably our longest period without seeing one another.

Yeah, I mean, total, it was nine months that we hadn't seen each other. And what Jamie basically said was, you know, we couldn't deal with the financial issue with the bank siphoning our money off, so, you know, kill the company and figure out how to make things better or go out and get another job. And sure enough, by that was a 6am telephone call I had with Jamie. On April 30, 2012, at 9am I fired all my employees. That later in the afternoon, I made preparations to bankrupt that company. And then two days later, my business partner and I figured out what we were going to do next and we kind of rebooted it in a completely different business model that was much more profitable.

Hey, honey.

What I'm hearing is that thanks to Jamie is how you really turned a corner. That's what I'm saying I'm hearing.

Thank you so much.

Matt. Do you attribute turning the corner to Jamie's ultimatum?

Yes, because I was trying to cling to something which, I mean, deep down I knew wasn't working and I knew was going to take a lot to make work. It made me realize that when a corporation becomes financially instable, you have to really take drastic measures to turn things around. Sometimes you got to bankrupt yourself and sell off all the assets. In my case, I just had a very specialized kind of a situation because all the assets were in my name. The company just wasn't functioning properly. We just couldn't get the money in. So I had to separate legally and basically get protection so that I can then make proper arrangements to pay those debts down rather than having all my money just taken out from under me.

Matthew, what did it feel like when Jamie said this ultimatum and one of the words or one of the phrases that you mentioned is go get a job? What did that feel like?

Oh, I remember crying that morning, I'll tell you that much. And I remember that. I mean, Jamie, I assume you remember it too, because you were well, teared up when you were telling me this and we were engaged at that point because we had a very long engagement. We got engaged in 2010, so. But there was no way I was going to.

To.

Let our relationship die and lose him. And that's why I said, well, what's it going to take? I remember telling him, give me a few hours. And then when I called him back after 9:15am and said, okay, I fired everybody. I'm killing the company.

Hey, hon, do you. Do you think that the spouse has to sometimes get these ultimatums to be that firm too?

I don't know. If I would phrase it like that, I think in relationships you have to be very, very careful with ultimatums. But I would say that their relationship to me sounds like they got to a point where this is not working. And I think in, in your life and in your relationship, in your marriage, when you get to a place where something is not going forward, another step, then you have a choice to make. And I think clearly in their case, it was a wonderful sort of bankruptcy of the company and a new start is obviously onto a beautiful track for them. I think sometimes an ultimatum in this case was helpful, but it wasn't about the business, it was about their life. It wasn't working. And I know in our situation, I don't know if I'm big on ultimatums with you, but I would say that when something in your business is affecting your home and your family in such a detrimental way that you can say enough, and then what you do from there determines your future. In your case, certain financial bombs that have gone off, you know, have, have made you change and put you on the track that you're on now, which is a fantastic track. And I love the freedom that we have in a lot of ways and it's hard in other ways, but I think that sometimes when things blow up, what comes out of that is even better.

Yeah. Matthew and Jamie, was the outcome, I mean, was that a massive turning point? Did it fix overnight? What was the outcome of that day?

It wasn't a, you know, it wasn't a panacea. It didn't fix everything immediately, but it definitely was a huge step in the right direction. I remember when he called me and told me everything that he did, I couldn't believe him. I was thinking that essentially it was over between us because I was just always, you know, I knew how much his business was important to him, but it definitely was a huge step in the right direction. And just to make a very long story short, what actually ended up really helping in saving us was his mother. That flew me up to Disney that following October and we got to see each other after several, several months of not being able apart, but definitely him telling me that giving me that news was a huge step forward. And I must say that, you know, one of the things that I always am grateful for, that he never tried to do was say, well, just come back home then, you know, because of course I'm doing. I was doing my master's here in France and, you know, wanted to stay in France and wanted to do this and never once did he, you Know, reverse the tables or anything along those lines, trying to, you know, say, well, if that's so important, why don't you come back to the States?

Jamie, I have a question. When he called you back hours later and said, I fired everyone, what happened inside of you? Did your stomach drop? Did you feel possibly responsible for a horrific event?

No.

Love it.

Typical Jamie, very selfish.

No, I didn't, I didn't feel, you know, because it was such a emotionally roller coaster weekend that with everything else that I was feeling and going on and. So wait, this is the end of April, right? So that means this is April 30th. Yeah, yeah. This was also exam time.

Oh, beautifully timed.

So just, you know, everything all at once. So. No, I didn't put, you know, I don't remember thinking, you know, this is all my fault. But I do remember, I think, telling Matt I said, well, I think they get unemployment. They'll get unemployment because they paid into it. So I think the fact that they would all be eligible for some form of unemployment kind of eased what little conscience I may have.

Matthew, did any part of you do it almost in spite? Like, here's this ultimatum and you're like, I'm going to. And maybe this is not how you're wired, but did any of you, even a piece of you say, I'm going to show Jamie and I'm going to do this not because he wants me to do it, but partly to show that he's wrong. Did any of that play out? Or are you just a good conscious guy throughout?

Well, probably leading up to that point, I didn't want to bankrupt that company because I took that company over in 1994 from the previous owner who incorporated it in 1984. So this corporation, this previous corporation had a long history and it was really comfortable having a corporation which had been around for so long and still operating. And that was one of the reasons why I kept saying, I don't want to kill this business is because it's had such a long life. And if I was applying for a loan just by the fact that it had been around for 20 years was a benefit, that was one of the reasons why I just kept it alive. When he gave me the ultimatum, it almost was. It was my excuse to finally say, okay, yes, let me just kill this thing. And maybe I was just looking for that excuse and I was waiting for somebody to give it to me because being the entrepreneur and the one in control, you have to make the decisions and sometimes you don't want to make the Hard decisions because you've got no one to kind of push you over the edge to say yes, go ahead. It's okay if you make that hard decision.

Let me ask you a question and try not for the other person's answer to influence what your answer is. I'm gonna start with you, Krista. And then we'll go to Jamie and then Matthew and then I'll go to me. What percentage, how much knowledge do you think you know of my business?

I'm not very good at math, so can we take it out of the present?

Yeah. What's 72 minus one? No, no. What percentage of my business do you think you know? Do you know 100% what's going on? Do you know 5%? Like what's the number you feel you know which business?

Babe? My collective entrepreneurial efforts are a lot more specific.

My collective entrepreneurial efforts.

Oh gosh. I mean, you know, to Jamie's point about the roller coaster ride, being married to you in particular, which is my only experience with an entrepreneur is a roller coaster ride for sure. So I feel like you are involved in so many different things and the books and the speaking and the profit first and this and it is kind of overwhelming to try to take that all in. I feel like I could hold a conversation with people enough about your business and some things more than others. But it is, it can be scary because you're constantly dipping your toe into different business areas and it's overwhelming. I have found it overwhelming over the years to balance our family and our lives with our extended family and between the two of us, our relationship, which we pay a lot of attention to. I have found it a little bit scary because I'm sort of like, okay, there's a lot of trust in you. And we've definitely had our ups and downs, but business wise. But it's scary. It's scary to go. Now tell me this, now tell me that because it makes me sometimes afraid.

Yeah, yeah, no, I got you. Jamie, if you had to pick a percentage, how much do you feel you know about what Matthew does in his work?

I would say I'm between 70 and 80% just because I actually, I still work for him.

Okay, so you have a good intimate.

Knowledge for the regular day to day thing for new projects or anything like that? I'm not fully in the loop, but one I don't want to be. I'm very much on a kind of need to know basis. I have no problem following that philosophy because with everything else that I do, teaching, tour guiding, Dissertating. I don't need to know everything, but I have, I would say between 70 and 80%. I know what's going on.

Love it. And Matthew, not trying to be influenced by his number. What do you feel your number is of? Jamie's awareness of what you're doing or knowledge of what you're doing.

And see, I assumed he was going to say higher than 80%.

Okay, okay, well that's revealing in itself. Yeah.

Because I do tell him what I'm doing. So Jamie, this tells me how much you listen to me.

I thought 70 to 80% was really good.

I thought it was really good too actually.

Yeah, So I mean I do tell him about new things I'm doing, but it's been a long time since he was here working in the office in New Jersey again. I mean, I'm in New Jersey, he's in Bordeaux, France. So it's been a long time since he was working here. But he does know about all the customers that we have, all the clients we have. He knows their name because he does the bookkeeping now. So there's a good way to wash the money is by him doing the bookkeeping.

Right. He's involved and participatory.

But I guess it's my ongoing research. It's the new seminars that I do or when I tell him, hey, I got booked to do a seminar in this city or the that state and I have to arrange my flight schedule back and forth to France around all of my, around my speaking schedule, which is really difficult for 2016.

You know, it's funny, as Krista was sharing what she knew about my business, I thought you'd throw a number out and I was expecting you to throw a number higher than what I would think. But as I'm thinking that I'm like, it's interesting. I think I do so many things that are unique and you don't know hun what's going on. That I think I would say, oh, Maybe she knows 1% of what's going on. But I think the reality is probably 15 or 20 or 30%, you know, a lot more that's going on.

Wait, are you saying you think I know 1%? Is that what number?

Well, it is. I'm just saying my assumption is a low number of understanding the intimacy of the business. And as I'm thinking this, I'm like, oh, I put a lot of significance and uniqueness in what I do and I wonder if I'm using it almost as a defense mechanism so that when you Say something in observation about me or the business. I'm saying, well, in my own mind. Oh, she doesn't really know everything that's going on. She knows very little.

Oh, that's good to know. That's what you're thinking.

I'm being candid.

You know, I'm a hundred percent sure. I'll never forget that you said that.

It's on tape. It's recorded. But you know what's also recorded was what you were saying prior to us going live in this episode. And that will be played about how.

You smell like onions.

Yeah. She comes down here. Well, first of all, you start wiggling your head back and forth. And she's like, it smells like BO down here.

That's what she said on the last. First Marite Mayhem episode.

Did you really listen? They order sandwiches with onions and bring it into this hot, sweaty office. It smells like warm onions. I'm sorry. That's not pleasant for most people.

She comes down here. I go, hey, hon, how you doing? And she rolls her eyes and goes, it smells like dung.

And then you want one of those masks to wear?

She does. She wears. Yeah, exactly like you have the swine flu.

You're not trying to impress me still. So.

So, okay. So what I was getting to was the perception of what we know and when this moment happened, this kind of ultimatum moment, I was just wondering, with the psychology behind it, because here's a life partner, someone that you're walking through life with, but as we digest what they're saying, I wonder if the automatic defense mechanism kicks in. I think kicks in for all of us. I know it kicks in for me. I don't know.

It definitely does for me, too. Absolutely.

For me. Like I said, I needed a reason to surrender and I needed a reason to. I was miserable. Here we are in the middle of the recession. I knew I had a really good idea for how to run the business. I couldn't get the business to that point. I had been reformulating a lot of procedures that we were using with clients, new clients. We were taking on where were really happy. We had a lot of clients going out of business, but yet I wasn't happy doing it. And I needed a reason to do the restart. So I didn't resent it and quite happy that I did it. And I'm quite happy that he gave me the ultimatum. We had been completely supportive right up until that point, and we've been supportive since the day after that that happened. So we've never. That was the only time where we Ever really had this ultimate, ultimate conversation. And I don't think we necessarily have those conversations of saying, I got to talk to.

You know, I remember early in our marriage, very early on, Mike saying something to the effect of that I was kind of like the flag thrower. Like, I was the first one to say, hold on, something's not right. We're not connected, or I don't like something, or I was the person to throw the flag on the field right away, sometimes too soon. But I think that maybe it just occurred to me when you were just talking, Matt, that maybe someone, one person in the partnership has to be the flag thrower. Somebody has to be the one to say, whoa, this is not working. And I think when it works, it causes positive change that needed to happen. And you're either afraid to take that step or make a change, because change is scary. But I definitely think that I am the one, obviously in the relationship that throws the flag and says, hold on.

Jamie, what do you think about that?

Definitely think that there's mutual sides to that, I'm sure. Well, obviously, I've thrown the flag as.

Testament in a big way.

You threw the flag down, put the.

Flag and your hat and the other flag.

I canceled the game. But I do think it works the other way, too. I'm sure there have been instances, I just can't think of any off the top of my head where Matt has thrown the flag as well. I think that that role is something that's needed but is not necessarily fixed and should actually, you know, be more fluid and play back and forth. Because, you know, especially when it comes to entrepreneurs or our own personal projects. I mean, I have so many personal projects that I work on. I'm sure, Krista, you do as well. That we just get kind of caught up and lost in ourselves and that sometimes it's actually we need that a red flag thrown down to just kind of snap us back to reality.

Absolutely. Although usually Mike only throws a flag if I have brought him another item that I saved money on. Saving me.

She goes, look at these shoes. They were 50% off. And I'm like, please do not save me any more money. It's making me go bankrupt.

Perception is brilliant. I love that.

Matthew, do you feel us entrepreneurs that we're too optimistic that we never throw the flag and we dig our own holes?

Oh, I absolutely think so, Mike. I think that as an entrepreneur, we're focused. I mean, we go around with the horse blinders on. We have a goal. We know what we want to achieve. And we know what it'll take to get there. And we don't understand why other people around us can't see what we're trying to achieve or why they can't help us. And we get. And we get frustrated with them that they're like, well, why can't you just simply see this and help me with this instead of complaining?

Why can't you get the Christmas lights up outside?

Oh, no, she's calling you out on the air, bro.

Yeah, I know, I know. That's.

You don't have it.

I got that ultimatum.

Yeah, you're right. Actually, today there is an ultimatum.

Yes. So I think. I mean, for me, I guess I like that Jamie sometimes gives me these ultimatums and snaps me back to reality, because, I mean, honestly, I mean, we're gay. And when I was younger, I never thought I was gonna get married. I never thought I was gonna find anyone. It's just society was. Was just not in our favor to allow it. And so when I started my business, I figured, oh, well, why not just be married to the business for so many years? So finally finding someone good and then realizing, wait a minute, you know, I've been doing this for so many years. How do I replace that? I think now, I mean, when I'm over in France, I try to schedule my work schedule around his schedule. So he'll walk in the door, and I'm like, okay, turn the computer off. And I'll tell him, you know, we're spending the night together. It's like, well, I'm with you tonight. The computer is off, which is my indication that whatever you want to do, I'm here, and I'm not thinking about work. And I have. I had to rewire my brain to do that, because that was difficult.

Do you feel a little bit spiteful for that? Because maybe entrepreneurship's an addiction. Okay. Okay.

No, I feel much happier. I feel much happier.

Jamie, do you feel that you kind of act. Have to act like a mother hen here and keep your husband in check?

Well, I did take a little page out of Krista's book the last time that we had dinner. And I will tell. You know, I will say, food, you need to eat.

She does, yeah, she does do that.

So, yeah, when. When Krista told us that, when we were having dinner back when I was stateside, I definitely took a page out of the book.

And, yeah, and he has. He has come up to me and he says. He has said to me, how long you been sitting there? He's like, I don't know, six hours. He's like, krista's going to say you should eat. I'm like, yeah, I guess I should get up.

Krista says, you should eat.

Oh, that makes me so happy. I took a page out of your book and I, and I fill a glass of wine.

Oh, thank you.

That's great.

Now we haven't drank the wine you guys gave us yet. This is, we're waiting.

I'm afraid, I'm afraid to drink it before it's time.

No, I wish our, our listeners could see this. We have a chateau.

This will be good.

I don't even know how to pronounce it.

That one's a 2011.

How do you pronounce it, Jamie?

Chateau Olivec.

Oliveque. Oh, it's not hot. It looks like hot Chateau Olivec.

And it says Jamie.

Shaking his head, Jamie's like, what the hell is the word?

I think the wine just turned bad.

There's a note in the back. It says, save until 2019. Goes with. Well, with red meat, not white meat or organic meat.

Oh, 2019. I didn't.

Or game meat. Game meat. No. So this is waiting. It is waiting for that day.

This.

I also gave you another one that says drink today.

Hold on, wait.

Oh, yeah, yeah. This is the 2006.

Yeah. Drink now goes well with barbecue or red meat.

Not do not serve it with white.

Meat or game meat. Yeah. Why don't we drink this one now? No, not now. Maybe, Maybe.

Sorry.

I'm thinking Friday. Okay, so let's wrap up with this question. Your relationship since the we'll call the moment the ultimatum, has that strengthened the relationship? Has it been of no consequence or has it put a little dent in the relationship?

Absolutely strengthened.

Matthew.

Yeah, absolutely.

If you say anything but by the way.

Absolutely strengthened. I mean, like I said, I know that it was a very difficult move for so many different aspects and like I said before, much happier because I've done it because I like the new business format that we have and I like the liberty to be able to travel and go and be and do wherever, whenever that I want to do.

Great. Matthew and Jamie, thanks for joining. Matthew, one last question for you. If the folks listening in want to learn more about your business, what's the website they should be going to?

Well, they can go to perosi.com or they can go to Sapphire Collaborative or sapphirecollab.com S A P P H I R E C-O-L-L-A B.com.

Great. We'll have that in the show Notes. Gentlemen, thanks for joining us and hope you both get to see each other real soon back in France.

Oh, yeah, he's coming back a few days from now. Yeah.

Why don't we all grab a dinner or something like that?

Sounds like a good plan to me.

We can drink some hot Eleva Q.

You got to eat. You got to eat.

Anyway, Crystal will be telling us. All right, I'll see you guys later.

Thanks, guys. Great job, Chris.

We're doing a little atypical format. I think we got a whole new podcast, potentially. I mean, this. This is the profit first podcast, but I think there is. I don't know, we want. I want to hear from the listeners.

Am I allowed to swear?

No. Oh, damn, you can. I mean, you can say shit. You can say fuck.

Oh, what do you mean? What do you think I'm gonna say?

I thought you meant the C word, because that's what she calls me.

Oh.

Oh, I do.

You know, I had to tell my students about that word. And, you know, I say no one says it in the US that it's such a. You know, it's such a bad. It is the worst word you could ever say. And then. Thank you, Krista. So do I just click sign out then? Is that good?

You do whatever you want.

Can I leave?

Yeah, you can go.

Drink waiting. To drink with.

I have people wait. I have wine waiting. More important.

All right, go. Yeah. Click on sign out.

Run, don't walk, run.

Thanks, Jamie.

Potentially. See you guys while I'm stateside. So thanks again.

Oh, I can't wait to see you.

We'll see you, Jamie. Yep. Bye.

Bye.

So, Chris, what did you take away from today's episode?

I took away a lot, actually. I think it's. I think everything that was discussed really underscores one thing and that it's the balance in a relationship is the thing that's ultimately important. Like, business is great. You need business, you need money. But relationships are great. You need them equally. So, you know, it's great when a couple can work together and have that back and forth, and each one throw a flag when they need to, and the other one be open to saying, yeah, I think you're right. It's just great. And that's why when Matt said he's. He's happy when he turns off the computer and he says, okay, I'm yours for the night, that makes him happy. Why? Because it feeds that relationship, and then there's the balance. So I like that.

You know, what I heard was, you know, when I read all these entrepreneurial magazines and all these things I love to read. You always hear about the entrepreneur, the man or woman that led the business. You never hear about the invisible but powerful force that's walking side and side with them, side by with them, which is their spouse. And they don't get the exposure. So it almost in the entrepreneurial community perpetuates itself. You think you just got to push harder and go bigger. But you never learn about the person that's bringing balance. So thank you to my wife, my beautiful wife, Krista Michalowicz, and you're welcome. And to Jamie and Matthew for joining us for this episode.

Yeah. So why don't we just quickly mention our corporate partners before we hit the road, Jack?

Yep. The folks that make this possible is tsheets time tracking software. Powerful stuff. We use it in house here at our business, Fundera One Shop funding. If you need a loan for your business, go to fundera.com they'll go and shop it for you. Fund box. If you have invoices that aren't getting paid on time, they release those funds to you. It's a modern form of factoring, yet you get to control the invoicing for that. And of course, Nextiva is our voice over IP phone system we've been using over five years now. It's world class. Definitely.

Check out nextiva.com well, this is awesome. Thanks for joining us again. Find our podcast on itunes, Stitcher, Tunein Radio and of course the website profit first podcast.com and if you want to know more about podcasting itself, go to my website, fractal recording.com and of course, the real force behind all this, besides Obi, Ron Kenobi is Profit First Professionals. Mike, please give us the info.

Yeah, if you want to build a profitable, sustainable business, you need an extraordinary partner both in your relationship and also in your business. We have the world's best, most elite accountants and bookkeepers on our website. So go to profitfirstprofessionals.com Click on the find button. We will find you an accountant or bookkeeper that will help you drive profitability in your business and bring balance to your business, sustainability to your business. That's what profit first professionals.com does.

That's right. So go to that website and you can find all our episodes on Profit first podcast dot com. All the links will be in the show notes. So if any any of the links that were mentioned you can get in the show notes. Thanks for listening, everybody.

Yeah, glad you enjoy us. And be sure to tune in to next week's episode. This is going to be absolutely fascinating. This is when I was writing my first book, the Toilet Paper Entrepreneur. There was this young budding entrepreneur named Bryn Davis who was just starting a popcorn stand. He now owns multiple restaurants, fast food, healthy cuisine. He's on the COVID of all magazines. His company has exploded in success and profitability. And we're gonna learn how he did it.

There you go. So see you next time, everybody.

Bye.

Sam.