Episode 94: Swimming in Profit with Greg Wittstock

I'm gonna start now.

That was some juicy stuff.

I missed the juicy pine barren fire conversation.

That is very juicy.

Hey, Barry, what are we gonna need to make this episode really good?

You're gonna need a couple of horses, a couple of mules.

We got that.

You're gonna be Smokey the Bear.

I'm kind of asking a lot.

Low risk, low risk of fire. Please throw your cigarettes out the window.

That's right, and I need to punch you. All right, well, welcome, everyone. This is the Profit first podcast.

Episode 94, Smokey the Bear. Smokey.

Smokey. Welcome, everyone, to the show. This is the mayhem you love every week, couple times a week. This is the Profit first podcast. My name is Chris Curran. I'm the founder of Fractal Recording.

And I'm Mike Malowitz, the author, Profit First. Plus, we're on the verge of a surge. Check out my newest book, the Pumpkin Plans with Toilet Paper Entrepreneur. And I'm joined in studio by Christina Bulldog.

Hello again.

And you are listening to the Profit first podcast. This is where we explore all the elements of profitability. The alpha, the omega from last week. We were talking about hydroponics to aquaponics to weed. To weed.

Yeah.

And we. We. Oh, well, it goes on and on. Today's going to be a special episode because we're going to kind of parlay off what we talked about last week.

Yes, that's right. You can find us on itunes and Stitcher and Tunein Radio. Wherever you listen to podcasts, you can hear us, including the website, which I forgot to say. Last episode. Profit first podcast.com. have you gone there? Have you witnessed the juiciness of that URL? It is scary. And by the way, this show is about profit, and we love it, because profit in business equals sustainability. That's what you taught me, Mike. So revenue might have been at Woodstock, but profit is.

All right. Sorry. Went right to a filthy word. That rhyme was stock. Oh, oh, you're doing off. Our guest, Whit. Oh, I see what you're doing.

Oh, it takes me two weeks, Chris.

Like, he wants you to say witstock. He wants you to say our guest name, Wock.

And I'm sitting here going, all right.

Those single syllable words that rhyme with a, you know, profits. The rock prophets. The rock.

The rock. Yes, thank you.

Oh, yeah.

And our guest is Mr. Wittstock.

Yes.

Okay, now I see what you're doing. Two weeks to figure that one out. Hey, man. What have you been up to, bro?

No, I was waking up the other morning and I just Rolled over and I tweaked my back. Like, my lower back, like, all the way. Like, the lowest.

That's horrible.

But it's funny. It doesn't. It doesn't actually hurt. It almost tickles. I don't know. That's hard to explain. But, like, even though, like, when I move that first day when I was moving, like, I'd have to move really slow and. And it kind of hurt, but in a way, it was tickling me. I was laughing my head off. Is that normal?

Stretch it out, dude.

In most states, that's not normal. Colorado, it's very typical.

Very typical.

Yeah. Where you live, it's very typical.

What have you been up to? Mike and Christina.

So Christina's looking at my collarbone here and says, what's this, like, magnet stuck to your collarbone on your T shirt? This is the new thing called the Luma lift. It requires you to stand straight or sit straight. If it doesn't, it starts shaking. Really vibrating. Yeah. So it's a posture improver. Because I hunch over all the time. It's a horrible, horrible habit. So I saw it, and sure enough, every time I slump my shoulders, I don't want to do it now.

Wow. Start shaking like Tasers. You.

Yeah. So I've been wearing it for. Well, since last episode. Now it's been a week. And it's an amazing reminder.

Nice.

It's an amazing reminder. I'm going to try it for six months and see does my posture really improve significantly.

Interesting.

So we'll see. That's what I've been up to. What you've been up to?

Oh, you know, just living life.

Living life. Living large. Brazilian restaurant.

Oh, yeah, we went to the city. Fogo de Chao or something like that. And it's a Brazilian steakhouse. And my whole family went and it was like, a hundred dollars a person. But they just keep bringing you. Like, you flip a button. So if it's red, you don't want steak or you don't want any food, and if it's green, they just keep bringing it. And they're like, oh, here's some chicken wrapped in bacon. Here's the house sirloin. Here's some filet. And it's. Oh, it's just like, all you can eat. Madness. It's so Brazilian food.

Yeah. Out here in Jersey, when we say the city, it's New York.

Yeah.

I was out in California visiting with someone, and they said, oh, we're gonna go to the city. I'm like, that's a long. They're like, no, no, like San Francisco. So it's just funny. Whatever city is near you is the city, the city and every other city is just pathetic.

What?

Please.

Before we bring on our guest today, by the way, we're gonna talk about the trials and tribulations of running Aquascape. Our guest is named Greg Wittstock. If you haven't figured that out from our bumbling introduction. And you know, he got the COVID of Inc. Magazine and all these different successes. That's cool, but it ain't been an easy ride. And actually the first question I have for him, he may not be expecting. I didn't prep him properly. So, Greg, just. If you're listening in right now, I got to scale. But first, I want to thank our corporate partners who make the show possible.

Please.

Thank you to nextiva, who's confirmed their conference, by the way. Yeah, they're having a big conference in October. Third think it is. I gotta look. But nextiva's hosting a conference out in the Phoenix. September, end of September in the Phoenix area. Scottsdale, specifically. Must attend. They were so kind to invite me to speak out there. So I will be out there. TSheets, time tracking software, Fund box receipt bank. Who. I botched their thing. Yes. Last week. Yeah. I tried to read the script. It didn't feel.

I felt the love. Did you?

Okay, you can try it again.

And then talking about love. Fundera. I love Fundera. Meredith Wood is the rep we work with over there and just a wonderful person.

I have a question for Barry, the maintenance guy in my old building. Barry, are all the. Our corporate partners top shelf, five star A plus companies? Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

You know, one thing, Chris, you. You've told me, like, when we go into these episodes, people really don't know it's coming. So I just want to give everyone a heads up what we're talking about today. You know, we basically have three kinds of shows. One is someone that's implementing profit first in their business and needs our guidance.

Right.

The second type of person is an expert, someone who's written a book, done research, studies, whatever, and shares the feedback. And a third type, and these are my favorite, are the success stories. Because the success stories never are just like, oh, I just turned on a switch and became a multimillionaire. It's trials and tribulations. That's the journey of success. And that's what we're going to have today with Greg Wittstock. Greg is the founder and CEO of Aquascape. I wonder if Aquaman Is their. What they call mascot. Mascot. Yeah, mascot. Aquascape is the leading innovator in water gardening in the watering gardening market. The water gardening market. Aquascape invented the low maintenance naturally balanced ecosystem system pond that is the number one contractor installed water garden. And remember, Stanley was on our show, Stanley Genetics. Yeah. Ways back. These guys are buddies and these guys work together. And when he was telling me about Greg's story, like, we gotta get him on. So, Greg, welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks for having me.

Hey, I heard the building that you were in, the ceiling collapsed. What was up with it?

Okay, so you want to start off right there?

Punch right in the gut.

First of all, I do not go by the moniker Aquaman, but I do go by the moniker the pond guy.

Oh, nice.

Yes. So, hey, you know, Absolutely. I'm in a state of the art green building with a quarter million square foot green roof. And I got 24 inches of snow, and it collapsed in 2011, pretty much at the peak of the downturn. And what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. And we're still here today and the building is rebuilt.

Nice.

Wow. So how does that happen? How's a roof collapse? It seems so rare. And first of all, is everyone okay? Did anyone get hurt?

Over 500 roofs collapsed in the same storm, but you just don't hear about a lot of them because, of course, a lot of our garages and things like that, there's not too many, you know, quarter million square foot buildings with, you know, a green roof that collapsed. So it was little to do with the green roof and mostly to do with an ice dam that happened when there was a 50 degree temperature change and that water couldn't drain off the bottom and built up over the parking lot and collapsed the building.

Did anyone get hurt?

Thank God it happened on a Sunday afternoon when nobody was here, because it would have definitely been a travesty if somebody would have been hurt.

Oh, man.

So give us the 32nd overview of what Aquascapes does.

We are a manufacturer of water gardening products. So koi fish, you know, pond stuff, you know, like Mr. Miyagi and karate Kid had in his backyard. That's the kind of work that we do. So I started off as a hobbyist back in 1982 when I moved from my lakefront home in New Jersey, Southern Jersey, Pine barrens, and brought 11 pet turtles with me. And my parents promised me I could build a pond in my backyard. So as a hobbyist, I went to the library, got books on ponding, and they were all from Europe and Japan, and they said to make it out of concrete. I built that first pond out of concrete, and it leaked, turned green, and even my prize turtles migrated away. And that was the beginning of my odyssey, because every season I spent ripping out, rebuilding, MacGyvering up my own filters. And finally, in 1999, I had it perfected, and people started loving it. And that's when I decided to start an aquascape business. To build ponds, or 1989. I said 99. To build ponds for other people. I launched Aquascape Designs, and after my junior year at the Ohio State University, sold $21,000 in ponds in three months and cleared $11,000 in profit.

Oh, wow.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. A college student? That actually saves money. Who are you, man? You must be Aquaman. You're amazing.

Wow.

Yeah, well, it did help that I was living out of my parents house and using their garage in a free trailer and the family Buicksaber. But.

Plus, you're like Mr. Miyagi, you said so. That had something to do with it.

Well, I'm not like Mr. Miyagi, but I build ponds like Mr. Miyagi Cat.

Okay, so. Okay, so you get started while you're in college. Is this. Do you still see at this phase that this is just a fun hobby or something you can do as a college kid? Or are you saying the day I graduate, I'm starting this business full time?

Well, I just did it because I was working as a lifeguard before, and I found out that I heard that if you have a job that you love, you'll never have to work another day in your life. And I really love the pond. And so I remember telling my mom and my dad I wanted to start a pond business. And I told my mom first to get my confidence up, and she said, oh, that's so sweet, dear. And then I got the confidence to tell my dad, and I told him, all I need is a strong back, a wheelbarrow, and a shovel, and I already had the strong back. And that Christmas, I got the wheelbarrow and the shovel and off and running. I was low barriers to entry to get into this marketplace.

Okay, so you had the support of both your parents?

Absolutely. I was living from home. You know, I was a college student, and my mom was an entrepreneur, and she was very much about branding and marketing, and my dad was an engineer, and it was our hobby together, the ponds that we did, and they were both incredible supports when I got started.

Did anyone ever resist this Idea. Did any of your friends, maybe from college, say you're crazy? Of course.

They're like pons, you know, what's this up? And that quickly changed in three months when I bought my first Nissan hard body pickup truck and had the first spot at the fraternity house with the nicest car. So they thought, this is cool. So started hiring all those college buddies to work for me on their times in between classes.

Wow. But I presume the ride wasn't smooth traveling the whole way. In fact, I read an article about you. You and your dad. Your dad supported you in the beginning, but it sounds like there was a conflict between you and your pops.

Well, I built five ponds my first season. And my second season I came back early from Ohio State, so I took spring quarter and summer quarter off. I'd done 12, so I'd done 17 total ponds in the first two seasons of building them. And then on August 2nd of 1992, the Tribune ran a front page story in me in the Tempo section called Yon Golden Pond. Young landscape artist Greg Wittstock built ecologically friendly habitats for fish and plants in people's backyards. And my phone blew up. 700,000 newspapers printed, circulated, and I had hundreds of people wanting ponds. And I'll always remember the first. That was a Sunday, August 2nd, the first Saturday after that Sunday, I had eight design consultations, went out, everyone loved it, sold eight ponds, walked home, saw my dad and my mom and my sister sitting at the kitchen table, reached in my back pocket and slapped down $36,000 in deposit checks. And that was the beginning of my dad entering the business because I basically was sold out before I had to go back to school. So he started handling the sales, I was out building with the crews and that was the beginning of us disagreeing. So as a dad, we didn't really have a lot of issues. But as business partners, I was a wild ass 20 something year old entrepreneur and he was a 50 something year old conservative engineer. You need both skill sets in a business, but it would have been much better in reverse than not. So my dad was the break, I was gas pedal and we worked together for three years and then split.

Okay, so. And how's your relationship with your dad now?

Well, he was my first competitor and I didn't talk to him for 10 years. And bad scene called family business, which happens more often than not. And then in 2006, he came back into the fold and we acquired his business and we've been working together ever since.

And obviously you talk to each other now, right.

We mostly talk buckeye football. He's pretty much retired down in Florida, but we still have a shared passion of ponds. In fact, I just went down to his retirement home in March and built him a beautiful pond for him.

So, you know, a lot of folks listening into the show have family based businesses. They go in with their spouse, child, you know, someone you know and trust. What advice do you have if you are entering a relationship with that to make it successful? What do you suggest you do?

Well, you know, that would be a very weighted question and individually based, all I could tell you is that, you know, it's about as hard of a thing as you could possibly do is work with a family member. Because, you know, my dad was actually very right in a lot of the things that he said. But you know, I was a 20 something year old kid and he was a 50 something year old conservative guy and it just didn't work. And that's not unusual for a father and a son in business together to butt heads.

So now looking back, do you think a better decision may have been not to do this with your father?

Well, you know what, hindsight's 2020 for everything. But I will tell you one thing, that when my dad, you know, we had our separation and he told me I would never be able to succeed on my own, that was quite fuel for the motivation. You know, you don't tell a, you know, alpha male D guy that you can't succeed. And so that motivation fueled me and it really launched Aquascape. We became an Inc. 500, fastest growing company four years in a row was, you know, 2,000% year over year growth rates. You know, I built up a hobby from turtles into a 60 million dollar a year business. And you know, everything happens for a reason. It's come full circle and my dad and I are friends again today and, and, but if I could do it all over again, you know, that 10 years, you know, you really can't. But I can tell you that I'm just appreciative that I have a second shot with my pops.

Yeah, that's fantastic. And so now today the company does 60 million in revenue.

No, because 2008 happened. Oh and 2009, 2011 when our building collapsed. So you know, our peak sales came out in 2007 and I had 16 years of double digit growth. The 17th year, 2007 was flat. And then 2007 dropped 12 million bucks in one year just when the economy.

Turned drop, meaning you had a loss of $12 million year over year.

Revenue plunged $12 million year over year.

Revenue, not profit. Okay, where's the revenue today?

We're in the mid-30s and we're climbing. So the last three years of growth.

And, you know, now you can look back at different revenue stages. Is there a stage that's easier or harder? Are they all different? How do you compare the different phases that your business went through?

Well, we went zero to 60 like that. I mean, literally zero to 60 and everything I touched turned to gold, or it seemed. And then of course, you know, I learned a heck of a lot more on the downside than I did on the upside. And the number one thing I guess I gained out of the economic crash is the fact that A, you know, I'm not perfect and that not everything I touch turns to gold. And B, I'm very, I'm a very small clog. And our cog in this, this Aquascape machine because my teammates, the hundred or so people that work here are really the, you know, basically my pride and joy today. And if it wasn't without them and they're surviving and going through this, you know, I wouldn't have been able to do this on my own. And that was a wonderful lesson to learn because people are your most important asset. And that really came out of the, you know, basically seeing that my dream could have vanished. And now today, as we're building it back up, I just couldn't be more proud of the team that surrounded me.

So you don't go out and install any of these, landscape these ponds yourself anymore?

Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Don't ever say that. I will always be able to get my hands dirty. And I build them for a lot of celebrities. I build them for our TV show. We had our own television show on National Geographic, Nat Geowild called Pawn Stars. Little play on words there. And I got to travel and do some really neat jobs. And we have. We're the only manufacturer of a full line of water gardening equipment that builds ponds full time. So I can talk to talk of a contractor, I got a retail store, I can talk to talk of a retailer. And the local market is about $3 million of hands on stuff. And so that's my R and D.

Why is it important for you to keep your hands getting dirty?

Well, because that's how we innovate stuff and that's how we can relate to our customers. So, you know, it wasn't just Aquascape that had the downturn. It was obviously our customers. We're a B2B, the only thing we do with B2C is in the local market in Chicago and we're out of. And so, you know, we're. We lost $12 million in sales, but our construction sales dropped 120,000. And I was more concerned about the $120,000 plunge in local market than I was with the 12 million because I said, how could I teach other people how to succeed in business if I can't figure it out? And the local market started thriving the next year with what we did to turn things around. And that education is what I give my customers. And now my customers are rocking and rolling out there. I just need to get more people into this industry, which is always a challenge because there's a lot of kids coming up in this market that would rather go to college and then work at Starbucks than get their hands dirty and be out in the field.

Field, yeah. Oh. So how do you handle that dynamic with this changing environment of what workers want?

You know, you got to find the needle in the haystack. You got to find the people that really enjoy and have a passion for being outside and not want to sitting at a desk. And they're out there. I mean, my team is a testament to that. You know, the three million dollar local market here are all made up of people that are passionate about this. It's the challenges of helping my customers find, you know, that next kid that is a hard working guy that wants to, you know, take some pride in their work and not just go through the traditional route of getting a college degree, getting straddled with debt, and then getting a job that, you know at Starbucks.

Yeah, no, I hear you. Now do you have some special techniques to find those kids? Clearly you're not going to the colleges and doing recruiting there.

You know, they come from everywhere. But I'm creating a lot of, you know, part of, you know, an innovation company like ours is, you know, we're leading the change with how you market and recruit. And you know, I'll be out in, in June at the Ohio State football team job fair. I think that the guys who played football their whole life might not feel like sitting at a desk and they'd rather move rocks for a living. So, you know, we're trying all sorts of creative things. But I can tell you one thing, the people that are in this industry absolutely stinking love it. I mean, you would, you could cut them open and then they would bleed blue. And that's of course, that passion is what sells. And we just need to find more passionate people that you know, can get in and follow the system.

Now what about when you had that downturn from 60 million, massive drop in revenue.

We peaked at 60 and we dropped down to 29.

Okay, so 60 to 29. That to me, I interpret that to say I got to get rid of people because my business is going down if I don't get rid of people. I got to consolidate space, I got to cut costs, I got to do it fast. How did you execute on that if you did execute on it that way?

Yeah, excellent question. And I did. And not maybe as fast as I could have, but I went from 195 teammates to 100. You'd want to talk about cutting down to your bone. That was a pretty painful experience. And what was interesting is we had three round of layoffs. I brought in a professional turnaround guy, NBA. He lasted for a year and a half before I nicksayed him because he wasn't fit for the culture. But he helped give me a little bit of the ammunition to do what was needed. But for the long term, he was not good for our team. He was an outsider. You know, I look at the longevity. How many people have been here for the 10 plus years, you know, 20 years, and those are the people that I'm relying on building it back up. But you know, it was painful. I mean, we had to let go people. But the first round of layoffs, people were giving us a bird. The second round of layoffs, they were grumbling. In the third round of layoffs, they were shaking our hands and saying, thanks for keeping me around so long. And that was when you got down to the muscle and even the bone. And it's fascinating how that works, you know, with people. And we probably had too many people here. Those guys, 20 or 25 people we laid off the first time, should have never been hired. But when you're growing, you know, double digit growth every year, you're just throwing bodies at the wall just to see who sticks.

Gotcha. So interesting. So maybe to some degree, as hard as it is to say this from a human aspect, that cutting back was actually a good thing. You got rid of some of the fat, as you said, as opposed to.

Cutting back the first round of layoffs and maybe a little few of the second, but the third was, it was tough, but you know, but I also learned, first of all, you got to see, it's kind of like God has a sense of humor. I mean, you grow at double digit growth every single year. Then all of a sudden you got to make cuts. But I could tell you I'm a thousand, two thousand, ten thousand times more wise after going through the downturn and building it back up than I was before when I thought everything I touched turned to gold.

Did you think something was wrong with you, Greg? The business starts collapsing. Are you pointing at yourself saying, I can't get this right anymore. There's something wrong with me? Or did you see as other factors or combination?

It was a cliff, man. I mean, it just literally happened overnight. It was just a gut check, you know, a punch in the gut. Something wrong with me? No. I guess my confidence in myself never wavered. It wasn't like we did things differently. The world changed when home equity lines of credit went away. People stopped having that resource to buy landscaping. And so, you know, before the people, people would buy, you know, 10, 20, $30,000 water features with home equity lines of credit. Now, you would still sell them. Obviously, we still sold $30 million worth of product. But, you know, you didn't do it with two home equity lines of credit, because that just disappeared, that market. And that wasn't anything that we did per se. It was what the market did to change. And now how do you evolve? How do you change that? And that's, of course, the exciting part, you know, to keep the doors open, to keep, you know, we're still in the same building, you know, Aqualand that we created, even with the roof collapsed. And, you know, I still have my core team involved. And of course, that's the challenge. And there's a reason I don't work at a toll booth every day. And it's the challenge of getting up and figuring out the dynamic of a shift in marketplace.

Did you change your offering if you couldn't go through people using home equity? Did you change your product offering or some other way for people to fund what they wanted?

Oh, absolutely. I mean, we went from ponds being our core to really now the entry level water feature is just an incredible seller. It's entry level fountains and small water features that people can get into a cond, Put something in for 3,000 or 3,500 bucks, clear 2,000 bucks, and do it in half a day.

So what's the water feature like that? Is it the little flower that a clown wears on their suit, and you push the pump and the water squirts out in your face?

Yeah, not quite. No, it's fountains, it's bowls, spillway bowls, and magolian basalt rocks that are drilled. Real beautiful stuff that people want in their yards. But Instead of putting $30,000, it might only cost the consumer $3,000. And that is how we really basically saved the business. And today it's our fastest growth channel with lots of new contractors getting in because they see the profit potential. And it's also a lot easier to install. And you don't need a PhD in ponds to be able to put in a fountainscape.

Oh, interesting. And does that feed your other business? When someone gets another water feature, a fountain, do they come back to you three years later and say, I want to do more, and then the pond comes behind it?

Absolutely. I mean, basically it's also given the confidence of the contractor. Once they understand plumbing and water and everything else, then they want to grade up. Elementary school is your fountain. Mountainscapes, pondless waterfalls. It's a waterfall without a pond. Junior high and then high school would be your ponds.

Now what about profitability? How do you ensure that you're profitable throughout and increasing your profits throughout?

Well, obviously we go off a budget. This company survived. I had a sandbox of millions of dollars. I would just want something, I would just get it. When we were doing $60 million in revenue and growing double digits, now I have a budget and I have to live to it. And it's not fun to have a box. But I can tell you the organizational discipline here. If it's not on the budget, we're going to have to push that off until next year to do that or find a way to something to cut to do it. It's just financial responsibility that I never had to have when we grew double digits every year.

The fact you have a budget, are you basically pre calculating and projecting your profits in advance?

Yeah, absolutely we are because things change. Gross margin might change, but sales might be off a quarter. But if the sales are off, we have to control expenses and subsequently we manage the company. I have a cfo, I have a president, and those two are really the day to day people. And then I'm involved in the strategic planning. But because of that, we survived. Just think about how hard that is to kit cut over 50% in your sales and still be alive. And that is a testament to the team that I've got around me.

Oh my God. I can't imagine looking back over the years of having this business, decades now. What would you tell yourself differently or to have done differently to grow your business?

Well, really it really grew immediately, you know, and all the way up until. And then we had to reinvent ourselves with the small fountainscapes and everything else. So I wouldn't tell myself necessarily anything differently. But what I would say is those sleepless nights where you sit up there and you worry about how you're going to make payroll and everything else. Those were the things that really or character shaping. So it would be really tough to be able to say that I would want 2008 to happen again or the 2011 building collapse. But those are the things that really cemented my resolve and allowed me to go to the next stage of the business because of those adversities. So at the time you're dealing with adversity, nobody wants it, but then that's where you learn the most. So to me, I would go back and tell myself there's going to be a fantastic lesson and a fantastic learning out of this. And you're not going to get this when you're just touching everything and it's turning to gold.

Oh, that's amazing. Greg. Where can people learn more about you and your business?

Aquascapeinc.com you know, a Q, U, A S, C A P, E, I N C calm. And, you know, that's our website and we have a YouTube channel, Aquascape Ponds. That's how we ended up getting our reality TV show because the producer in LA saw that, scripted us and went over to, you know, 50, you know, 50 different countries interpreted in different languages. We've been flying around the world doing unique ponds now because of that. And, you know, life is a journey and certainly entrepreneurial is even that much more.

So thank you so much for coming on the show.

Awesome. Thank you.

Hey, guys. I appreciate it.

All right, take care, brother. So, wow, time just flew. I look at the clock, I'm like, oh, my God, I love when that happens. So many lessons. I'm scratching around these stamps I have on this piece of paper. So in a second, we're going to talk about what we learned from this episode. We're gonna do a little recap and I'll tell you where I found this picture of him. By the way, Kristina, is that cool picture?

That's an awesome picture.

I'll tell you where I found that in a second where everyone listening can. But first, first I want to thank our corporate partners. So thank you to tsheets, which is time tracking software Fundbox, who I'll talk about in a second, Fundera, which is One stop loan shopping nextiva, which is your voice over IP phone system and receipt bank, which is a cool way of managing, a very effective way of managing your receipts. Now I want to talk about Funbox. Remember Greg from Not Greg Wistock, but Greg from our last episode, Eisenbies. Eisenbeist. Thank you, Eisenbeis. I had to rehearse, like a hundred times. I still forgot. Greg Eisenbeis. He's also a listener of the show when we met in Wyoming. He's telling me about all the shows. He's like, he's acquired four of these. The services of four of these five sponsors. He said, really? Yeah, the system's already done. These are great systems. So I decided, why reinvent something or do it from scratch or on Google Sheets or something. I'm just gonna start using services. He loved it.

That's awesome.

So that's cool. If you use one of these sponsors, too. When you reach out to them, just tell them you heard of them through the Profit first podcast and they'll do absolutely nothing for you. But they'll be thrilled to hear that now maybe they'll do something for you.

And if you go, yeah, go to profitfirstpodcast.com and you can get links to all our corporate partners there. Because I know sometimes we talk about them. We say their name kind of quick. You might not remember, but. But just. You can always go to the website and click there.

Yeah, go to the website every episode. They're listed.

They're listed there. And you know what I would do? I would just say, hey, I heard you on the Profit first podcast. Can I get the 10% off? They'll be like, we're not familiar with that. Say, maybe you're confused. And then force a sponsor to listen to the entire episode. They'll give up within the first three seconds. So Fundbox, here's a cool situation. Greg could have used them to not save his business, but when he went through that financial calamity, when a client wants something and you invoice them and they can't pay the bills, Fundbox release those funds to you. So if clients during that period of time needed more money to pay their bills or couldn't get the money, it's now you used to send to collections. And collections aren't the nicest thing because you're going to lose that client for life, Fundbox will release the funds of that invoice to you in full. And then you in turn can continue to collect from your client like you normally do, not making their relationship awkward.

Right.

It's great in the B2C. It's really powerful in B2B. So check out fundbox.com, tell them you heard about them from us, and get your 10% off.

Surprise me with the 10%.

Yeah, I think it's a great idea.

And if they say 10, we haven't heard of 10. Just say 15 then how about.

Yeah, yeah. Have you heard that one? I got a juicy one I want to start out today.

Go for it.

Okay. You were ready to start talking.

I'm 10, so you go for it.

I'll start with my juicy one. He was referring to his employees and said they're out there. He's got to find the right guy. And I was trying to pin him down a little bit about strategies he used and it was cool. He goes to the Ohio State football job fair. Like he's targeting the guys that naturally by the line of or what they're doing in their life right now may be a natural fit. Here's one thing we do with our ads and Christina, you actually are the one now producers the ads and send them out. I think it's a great strategy. We write very long ads describing a job which may be being an onboarding specialist. Like we brought in Skilles that way. Lumberjack. And what we did on the. That's his nickname is Lumberjack. So Lumberjack comes on. What we do is we ran an ad and embedded in there toward the bottom says, if you're reading this entire ad, you must use certain verbiage when you respond. And that way when they respond in the subject line of the email, they say, yes, I read your full ad and here's the code you wanted me to say. It filters out all the people that aren't truly interested and are just responding out of routine as opposed to interest. The second thing is we ask people to submit a video and very few people do.

Right.

And we say it's totally optional, but it'll help you stand out. That's the ultimate hint. We want people that stand out. Erin Moger, we hired her on the spot because she submitted a video and it wasn't like this high end producer. We're not looking for that. We want people to be candid and we want people to show their sincere interest. She didn't have a camera. She borrowed one. But it was awesome.

Wow.

Lumberjack. He had a reason why he couldn't do it, but he addressed the first thing he said when he came in. He's like, I'm sorry I couldn't submit the video. And let me tell you why. It showed his concern and interest. We have the ability to modify our ads or the way we promote or advertise the position to make people go through this extra hurdle. So it automatically filters out the people that aren't a fit from the people that really are interested. All right, what'd you learn?

Always be willing to get your hands dirty no matter what position you are in the company. And he had a great point. It keeps you honest, it keeps you humble, and it reminds you of why you started in the first place. I. And that's why I love one of the things I love about working here. Everybody wears multiple hats. We all help each other out. No one's too above taking the mail to the post office. Like, it's just. It's. It's a good concept.

Yeah. Oh, I like that. I like that a lot. Yeah. Chris, what about you?

Well, Christina stole half of mine that she's getting me back for last week when I stole hers. Yeah. Keep keeping his hands dirty. He. He said two words. He mentioned two words. He keeps his hands dirty so he can continue to innovate and relate. And I really like that. Innovate. Think about that. You got it. If you're not in the trenches, you don't know what's going on, what the changes are and what you know, because things change and things morph into different experiences for. Not only for the market, but also your people and the customers, everything. So innovate is great and. And relate. You got to be able to talk the talk. Like he said, I can go sell a homeowner. I can sell in a. On a showcase floor. Whatever. He said, whatever they call that. So I think that was pretty cool. The other thing he said that I liked is that he lives to a budget, which, I mean, I think it's really interesting that when we really are succeeding and things are going easily, it's like whatever works, whatever to do whatever, you know, spend money here, spend money there. But when you got to reel it in and live to a budget, it really protects you against bad things happening. For sure.

Yeah. I suspect a lot of people listening in don't have a $29 million company, or at one point, this was $60 million. But even at that size, the importance of reverse engineering his profit. I wonder if he lived that budget when he was 60 million, if they wouldn't have gone through that kind of downward spiral and that need to cut and get rid of people. I wonder if they would have made better hiring decisions from the get go if they were living within the budget.

It.

That's the power of reverse engineering your profit. You know, I'm also co owner and a manufacturer, and we do a simple test. We call it the Handshake test. When someone comes in, Paul, the owner, and if I'm there for interviews too, will shake the hand of the person if their hand isn't rough. If they don't have dirt under their fingernails, they're not going to excel in this job. It's a very hands on, rough job. It's a real simple test. People's past or their future. I really like that interviewing process of goes to the football team players.

Yeah, that's great.

Those guys live in mud, actually. Yeah, yeah. So if I interview someone and I look at my. Do you have any dirt under your fingernails? And they say, oh, hell no. I know, I know. Neither of us are going to come out winning here.

All right, that's tremendous. Well, this has been a great episode. Thanks to Greg Wittstock for being a great guest. And by the way, you can hear us as a podcast anywhere you listen to podcasts, itunes, Stitcher, tune in. You can leave us a rating or a review and you can poke some fun at Mike Michalowicz for a number of reasons in the review. Please do that. And Profit First Professional is another organization that really supports this show and is really the backbone of this show. Right, Mike?

Yeah. So the reason this show came about is because of Profit First Professionals. We want to get the word out in the most consistent and aggressive way possible about what we're doing. I wrote a book called Profit First. If you haven't heard it or read about it yet, for God's sake, pick up a copy, man. But Profit first, it's Amazon, you know, online, all three stuff, favorite bookstore. And I wrote the book to solve my problem. What Greg went through, I went through on a smaller scale, but I would argue probably just as painful. I think everyone has that come to Jesus moment with numbers and kind of, as Greg was alluding to, it sucks, but it forms your character. It sucks that it takes such a painful thing to make character, but it's required. And I had that moment, too. And I said there had to be a better way. All this top long, top line talking and we were doing here, too. How big is your company? Top Line is not the answers to stability. It's profitability. You need profit in your business to sustain what you're doing. So I wrote Profit First, a methodology to work within our natural behavior, the way we normally run our business, kind of trusting our gut, reactionary move, sell and all that stuff. I wrote Profit first to address and build a cash management system that will ensure your profitability. Not for to have it one day but every day baked into your business. Well, Christina, Ron, myself, Aaron, Jack, lumberjack, we recruited a team of folks, accountants and bookkeepers and business experts who are guiding entrepreneurial businesses just like yours. To be consistently profitable right now, go to profitfirstprofessionals.com, click on the find button. We will hook you up with someone that's either specialized in your industry or someone that is in your general area. We have the people out there no longer wait for that calamity to come, that heart attack of a business, to say, now's the time, I'll be profitable. You can start being profitable today. Our experts are here to help you. Profit first. Professionals.com.

That'S right. It's a wonderful website with a lot of resources, and you can, you know, click on find. The find button, I think.

Yeah, yeah, the find button. And talking about clicking. Christina, look at this email that came in. I mean, this is literally an email that came in this weekend. Look at this.

Right?

That's great, though.

This email came in. It's a podcast listener, a fan of the book. Her name is Helen Faulkner. She owns the Saddle Camp in Australia. Next week, I'm going to answer the question that's embedded in here. Her business is facing a real challenge. They implemented profit first and said, holy crap, we can't own this business. It's not profitable. What do you do when Profit first tells you you're in the wrong business? I'm going to answer that next week. Plus, we have an amazing guest, Jackie Ross Anders, joining us. She's an owner of a business that, well, enhances your breath. We'll talk about that a little bit, too.

All right, well, thanks for listening, everyone. Thank you, Greg, for being our great guest. And thanks, Mike. Thanks, Christina. Thanks, everybody over there in the background, including the lumberjack and obi Ron Kenobi. Oh, we really appreciate you listening, dude.

One more thing I forgot. If you want to see this wild picture of Greg Wittstock, just do a search for the rise, fall and resurgence of the pond guy. It's an Ink magazine article. It looks so military, like.

Yeah, it's pretty cool.

This guy's coming out of the pond. Air bubbles coming out of the water. Either he's got an AK47 or a Koi fish in his hand. You have no idea.

All right, we're punching out before this big descending maelstrom of music. So thanks for listening, everybody. We'll see you next week. Oh, I didn't get it in time. You want to hear it?

He added the evil evil laugh.

Oh, God.

Oh. See, now we gotta go through it.

Oh, I got scared.

You can't fade out on that.

I got goosebumps.

He scared you one more time. Oh. And then it goes. He is scared.

Oh. See you all next time, guys.

Bye.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah. There's no activity. We're gonna ride this till the end, bro.

Crazy.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I love this on his part.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Barry.

No way. You crazy, bruh.

Bruh, bruh, bruh. I love how you.

Oh, my God.

Oh, God.