Kirby Hasseman: The Business of Giving

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All my books are free.

Oh, I get everything you want for free. Hey, take my house over too. Just take everything you want from me. I'll give it all away. No, but I have that. But I also have some my keynote speeches. Is that for free now, Kels?

It's not. I'm sorry.

What do I have for free? Anything.

Two free chapters.

First two chapters from the books.

All right, so go to Mike Motorbike worksheets. Com and get two free chapters from Kirby's book. I don't even have my own book there, Hosman's book. But okay. All right with that, let's get started. You know, I'm on, on a mission here. My name is Mike McCallitz. I'm the author of many books including Profit First, Clockwork, brand new book called Fix this Next. I'm on a mission to eradicate Austrial poverty. We do it on this show and every show called Entrepreneur. I love this. I love the music. It's a little bit loud and that's what I like about it.

It's still not even loud.

Maybe, maybe it's my headset. I don't know. I love it.

I turn yours down.

I'm joined in studio by the president of our company, Kelsey Ayers.

Hello, friend. Thank you for listening to us.

You are the last bastion of sanity at this place. I just want you to know that also in the studio is Jay Kablone. Hello. Jay Colone's taking over all the music. He's taking over the mixing. He's got a lot of work he can't even, he can't even look up. He's got to be writing, taking notes, sketching callers.

I'm writing with my toes, prepping games.

Thanks for all you do. All right, do we have anything to talk about?

No.

Good, then let's get right into it.

Yeah.

Okay. Kirby Hosman has joined us today. Kirby Hussman is the CEO of Hosman Marketing and Communications, which is a full service marketing company. Today's episode, we're gonna talk about his brand new book, which is the give first economy. And by the way, he's post other books too, calling called fan of happy delivery Marketing. Joy. You're gonna see a common theme in this Give your way to success. You know, you kind of, you kind of see a theme here. And we're gonna figure out why this works. So with no further ado, welcome to our show. Kirby Osman.

Thanks so much for having me, guys. I always love listening to you guys. So it's a, it's an honor to be here.

Ah, it's an honor to have you on the show. So you talk so much about giving and we hear about it, but let's be honest, business is about getting like, I need to make money, I need to grow my business. I understand the niceness of contribution, but that doesn't work for business, I don't think. What's your thought?

I think, I think that ultimately, you know, the idea that at some point you're going to sell somebody something is of course the ultimate goal of business. But I think where people make mistakes on it is they act like the 19 year old at their first college party and they try to close on the first move. Right? So it's literally like that small business who comes up to you at the networking events, like, hey, why don't you buy from me? Buy from me, buy from me, buy from me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like you don't get invited back to the party. And so I think the idea that you kind of come with a servant leader mindset and you provide value up front, that's how you create long term and quite frankly, more profitable customers.

But is there a risk of giving it away if you're a servant leader? Like, people take advantage of you.

Yeah, 100%. And you know, it's funny, that's the pushback I get a lot of times. If I generously give all of the time, right, Then someone will use like for our example, you know, we might give some creative away. We might, or give it to them in advance and then they, they might use that and Bid me out. And here, let me give you the short answer. They will occasionally, but I think it goes back to a wonderful book I read one time called the Pumpkin Plan. Right.

Kirby, you're invited back as a guest next episode.

But they, what happens is they show you who they are. Right. Those are the kind of people that you don't want to do business with long term. You just saved yourself a lot of time. Does it piss you off in the short term? 100%. But the reality of it is when the gift first economy, you want to create 25 year customers, you want to play the long game and they just shorten that game for you. And then on the other side, the people who really do value what they do, they show themselves too. And those are the people you want to do business with for a long time.

Kirby, the title of your book is a pretty bold title. They Give First Economy. I mean, that's indicating that there is a shift of foot globally. Are people really moving toward giving first?

Yeah, I think we are. I think we're living through it. You know, Gary Vaynerchuk actually talks about this a little bit, but I kind of go a little bit, hopefully a little deeper. But the idea that literally we've lived through marketing and sales being push all the time. Like the company, the entrepreneur, the organization that could push their message out the most, the fastest, the most obnoxiously, whatever. Like, those are the ones who have won historically and certainly the people who have the most money still have that ability today. Right. But the shift is coming with entrepreneurs where you can bootstrap because there's more of a pull economy because of social media, because customers have more power. They can shut you down, they can block you, they can, you know, they can turn you off. And so you want to provide value so that you pull them in. Like I, like we talked about it there at the very beginning when you, when somebody follows a business page, if I follow Mike Michalitz, I assume at some point you're going to try and sell me something. I just don't want you to sell me something ten times a day.

Yeah.

So if you provide me value upfront, I'm more likely to listen to the sales pitch because you've earned that trust with me.

So let's talk about how this builds your business or your brand. So if I start giving, how can I use this as an advantage to build a stronger presence and actually maybe even compete with the getters of the world?

Yeah, yeah. So for me, there's a bunch of ways to do it. But I think that the idea is that all of a sudden what you're doing is not just trying to be transactional, you're trying to build long term relationships. And so when you do that, you can sell it at a higher price, price you can sell at. Because it's a relationship, it's not a transaction. And so how do you do that? You think through the mind of the customer, not you. I think so much about sales and marketing. We spend all of our lives and actually heard somebody on this podcast recently say, like most of our marketing lets the customer know that we really value us. Right. And I think one of the things you do is you truly empathetically look through the eyes of the customer. So when you're creating content, you're thinking, what would matter the absolute most to my customer? How can I answer their question? How can I bring them value? And when you do that over and over again, then you become the expert. And what I like about it is we talk about a sales funnel, right? Everybody has their little funnel. I think when you build that personal brand and you do that by giving real value over time, the funnel sort of goes away. Because they come to you. Because it's not a matter of when somebody picks up the phone and calls me and says, look, I've got an event coming up and I need your marketing advice. It's not whether I'm going to sell them something, it's what I'm going to recommend to them. Because you're in a totally different position. You're the expert and they've identified you as such, not you.

Can you give me some strategies made from your book or that you've discovered since that we can apply?

Absolutely. So, you know, I think one of the first ones that I say is give out joy. And let me back up and say that several of the things in my book, I always say that the greatest distance in the world is the distance between I know and I do. Right. So so many things I talk about in the book is like, I know that I should be doing it.

Oh, I see what you're saying. Yep.

I'm not consistently doing it. I always say that the reason I know that quote is true is I know for sure how to have six pack abs.

Right, right, right.

I do not have six pack abs. And so when I talk about giving out joy and giving out praise and thanks, which is another one, we know we're supposed to do it, but we're not doing it. And we're certainly not doing it consistently. So the give out joy studies will tell you 89% of what we see in the world is negative. Right. And we're about to live through a presidential season. And 89%, I think, is going to feel low. So if you want to stand out again, I heard this a place that in the mind of your customer, better is not better. Different is better.

Nice, bro. Nice. Get him back on another episode. I want him on every episode we have.

I actually really do read your books. But when that is one of the ways that you truly stand out, if everything you see in your Facebook feed sort of feels like somebody's bitching and moaning, the person who stands out and says, no, things are going to be great, do stand out. So give out joy, give out praise. I always say that the first two things that you learn as a kid, when you have kids, what do you teach them? First two things, once they've they're going to speak, it's please and thank you.

Right.

Well, I always joke that the secret with parents is you get tired of hearing please.

They master that one pretty quickly.

Right. But you never get tired of hearing thank you. And I think that our customers and prospects are the same way. Right. They hear please all the time from us and all the other people who are trying to sell them something, they honestly don't hear thank you very much. And as much as we know we should be doing it, simply sending a handwritten thank you note, sending a video that is a personal video to them that says, hey, Kelsey, really appreciate the project that we just worked on. Sending them an unlisted link on YouTube totally stands out. And all it is is saying thank you. It's just doing it in a different way.

You know, I heard this method is a behavioral method where, say I was boarding a plane and I want to get first class. I could say, would you please upgrade me to first class? Or you could say, thank you for listening to what I'm about to ask. May I please get first glance. And by leading with thank you, the percentage of close rate increases to your point.

Yeah. It makes sense. Right. Because it's how we want to be treated. Like we want to be respected for our expertise, for our time and for our business. And the reality of it is, if you've ever done business with anybody who isn't appreciative or like I always say, the people who volunteer their time, right. They work on the local chamber, they try and raise money for the local nonprofits. They don't hear thank you at all.

Yeah.

And if you want to look different in the marketplace. Simply be a bastion of joy and hope. People actually want to hang out with you.

It's the second word, second time bastion's been used. Today is when I wanted to know that, hey, not by you. I also use that word. I'm very proud of that word. What other tips? It is an sat word. What are some of the other tips? If. Can you give like one or two more? I just want to get. This is some juicy stuff.

Yeah. So one of the things that I talk a lot about is the idea of being more grateful. And I know that goes to the praise and thanks, but that sincere I always say, I read in a great book called the Happiness Equation where he says that we've got an equation backwards where we talk about if we work hard and we have success, then we're going to be happy. And I think most of us, once we've had any level of success, understand that that's broken formula, right? And we need to flip that and say if we are happy and then we have, then we work hard, we're actually more likely to succeed. And that's what the studies will tell you. And so by creating sort of an attitude of gratitude on a regular basis because like I'm a glasses half full guy, I tend to be pretty positive. So whenever I'm talking about this in groups, you can always see the pessimists in the group just go, well, great, so I'm just screwed. And I think that the way to solve it is to do some sort of gratitude challenge. And that helps to. Because you can't be grateful and negative at the same time.

I like that.

And so what I always say is do for 30 days. And you've heard this before but you just don't do it, right?

Yeah.

The first three to five days of writing a thank you note you'll be like, oh, it's easy because I'm going to go to Kelsey, I'm going to go to spouses and parents and those low hanging fruit. After about five days you got to start looking. And the funny thing about gratitude is if you start looking for it, damnedest thing happens, you start to find it. Right? I call it the red Toyota effect. Right. Like when you never have seen this red Toyota, you buy it, then all of a sudden it shows up everywhere. It's because you've told the subconscious brain that it's important and now all of a sudden it starts showing up. And the same thing will be true with, with gratitude is that if you actively start looking for it it will actively show back up.

Now, this process of giving joy, giving praise, giving freely that consumed a lot of effort and time, you may not get immediate returns. I know in your book you talk about actually how to bring efficiencies about so you can do this.

Yeah. So it was funny. I did this talk for probably a year or two before I said, oh, you know, and the response is great. But the pushback I always got was, this sounds great, but it sounds like it's going to take a lot of time. And I'm always like, well, sure, anything that's worth doing is going to take time. And so sort of the second half of the book is me really talking about how to get more done and based on scientific principles, not just my opinion. Right. Because I think everybody's got like these little tips and tactics that they use in their life. But what I did was do research on brain activity and how to make your brain function at a higher level. And with the idea that you're not trying to just jam more crap into your day. It's about being more truly productive, not more busy, which I think busy is the most overused term in our culture today. And so, yeah, I talk about seven things to start doing and seven things to stop doing so that you can immediately start being more productive.

Oh, can you give me a hint of one of the two things to start? One of the two things to stop? Yeah, yeah.

So real quickly, there's three that are counterintuitive to start. Right. Get more sleep, get more exercise and meditate. And I say they're counterintuitive because every single one of them takes time.

Yeah, okay, Right, right.

But the idea that, you know, so many studies tell us that we're not getting enough sleep as a culture.

Yeah, right. That's true.

And. And it's like we, and I always joke, go back to the. The college days. I wasn't a particularly good college student, but it turned out that the idea of staying up late and grinding and pulling all nighters is a terrible way to make your brain function better. A country full of zombies. Right. And so getting more sleep makes your brain function at a higher level. Getting 20 to 30 minutes of exercise each morning actually makes you smarter. And I talk about the science behind that, actually drives more blood vessels into your brain, physically makes you smarter. And then meditation. And that's one, to be honest with you, Mike, I struggle with that.

Yeah.

Because I grew up in a culture where the idea of sitting, you know, on a pillow, cross legged, like that sounded totally hippie. Dippy to me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But what I found is all the smart people that I like, admire are all doing some form of meditation. I'm like, well, maybe I'm the guy who's missing out.

I started looking into TM Transcendental meditation. And that. That sounds super appealing because of its ease. I'm actually not doing because. Because it's been commercialized. But I found these things called singing bowls. Have you heard of these things, Kirby?

I haven't.

Oh, it's like a. It's a bowl that sings. No, it's a bowl that you. You rub us funny. How.

How am I funny?

You rub. Thanks, Jeremy. Well done. You rub a stick around it and it makes this humming sound. And what I found, for at least for me, it brings concentration and focus. And there's even. There's an activity. It reduces my mind from wandering. So we'll tip.

Yeah.

Hey, so there's a few things to start. Give me a few things to stop. And don't say, stop sleeping, stop meditating, stop exercising. That doesn't count.

I love it. Okay, so I'll give you one. Stop hitting the snooze button.

Okay? Okay.

Sounds counterintuitive because I just told you, get more sleep. Right?

Yeah.

But there's in the book five second rule, Mel Robbins, it talks about this a little bit and the idea that we all sleep in 90 minute cycles. And so this was totally eye opening to me. When you hit that snooze button, you think, I'm just going to sleep for nine more minutes. But your body doesn't get the memo. So it goes back into a 90 minute cycle.

Gotcha.

And it's like, oh, crap. No wonder I feel groggy after that. It's like you got more sleep, but you actually feel worse.

Interesting.

Yeah. So stop hitting the snooze button. The number one that is the most one that gets argued about has the most science behind it. Stop multitasking.

Yeah, okay.

Like, it is fascinating how that's actually a productive killer. And then stop comparing. Stop comparing. You know, I'm a big fan of social media. I actually really have fun with the platforms and I enjoy doing it, but that's one of the challenges. But you know that it's really easy to see every single one of your friends on a beach somewhere. And like, you know that one of my friends, I swear to God, he lives on a carnival cruise ship. Like he's always on vacation.

Right? See, I'm comparing. He's a bastard. I just compared.

He'S Totally. But, you know, it kills productivity. It doesn't, you know, it kills your creativity. Comparing yourself to others is just a. It's a production killer. Yeah, those are. Those are a couple.

Yeah, I love that. So the book's rooted in giving. You know, one classic give right now is to give away free content. I pitch it in the beginning and the end of my shows. I value it. But is that a good strategy? How do you do it? Right.

No, I actually think it is a good strategy. And I think, again, I think it's about transparency and authenticness. Right. Like, you are giving it away and giving value and hopefully giving. And by the way, it's not the only thing that's happening. You can go to that site that you're talking about, mikemotorbike.com and you can see other tools that are out there. You're providing value. Ultimately, customers understand you're going to try to sell them at some point, but it's about consistently giving. And to be honest with you, this podcast is a great example of it. Because you're providing entertainment, you're providing value, you're providing education to people. That is a give and I think, content. It's the reason that it's become easier and better to live in this gift first economy now, because we can all choose to do. To become a media company to provide value to the audience that we want to promote to.

I got an email. I want to know how you would handle this, Kirby. I got an email about three, four days ago. I don't think I told you, Kels. We did that webinar for $49. And this guy said, if I don't know where he was from, but he says, I've been a fan of all your books and stuff, he goes, you just lost me today. You've gone greedy. And I wrote back, I said, I'm so sorry I offended you, and I didn't mean to offend you, but this is. This is just an additional offer and you have the right to choose it or not. What's the right way to handle that? When. When people. You're so known for giving and contributing and then you go for that ask, someone may punch you in the face like, I got it. What do you do?

100%. And again, I think that in that moment, that person has identified you, quite frankly, I would say, and again, no disrespect to that person, but they've identified themselves as not your customer. An entrepreneur would totally understand that at some point you're gonna go for the ask Right. And who's your audience? Entrepreneurs.

Yeah.

Right. So they just realize, hey, I want all of his free stuff, but I don't want to pay. Well, the people who. Most people will just go, yeah, I'll take. I'll move on. Because I understand the way the world works. But the reality of it, he just. He just identified as someone who would never be a good customer for you anyway.

Yeah, it would never be a good customer. And I just wonder if he saw. I can't even say me, but the perception of what I'm doing as that there's this. This guy out there just spills out information and. And somehow is able to sustain just by giving away freely. And has a misperception of. Of how sustainability comes about. Because when you ask. Right, Kirby? When you ask, it's not so that you can greedily serve yourself. It's in part or maybe in full so you can continue to give.

Yeah, no, I think that is true. But I think one of the mistakes I see people make is that they. They disguise and ask.

Yeah.

As a gift.

Yeah.

That's cheesy, right? So if it's an ask, just ask. Hey, this is. I am coming and I am trying to sell you something right now. If you don't want to, no problem. All the free stuff's over here on the left. But this is a sale. I think that the challenge. And I get this, like, it's the thank you card that has you open it up and a business card and an offer falls out. Well, then it's not a thank you card. Yeah, it's either a give or it's an ask. Both are okay. I don't like them together.

I love that. Yeah. You know. You know, the classic ask, which is looked as give was dentist for my kids. The happy birthday card to come with that picture at the thing. It's like, happy birthday. Hope your teeth are clean. You know, it's like so inauthentic. Right. You know what I'm talking.

I never got that.

You never cleaned your teeth. Look at those munchers. Look at those munchers you got there. That's the problem.

You know, it's. It reminds me of humble brags.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Drives me nuts.

The worst. The worst. Hey, Kirby, we gotta start rolling. But before we let you go, where can our listeners get more information? And specifically, I want every listener listen right now. Get this book, the give first Economy. It will serve you. It is transformational because we have to be turned to a giving economy. And this is the strategy How So pick it up. Kirby, where can I get your book and how can I learn more about you, my brother?

Absolutely. Thanks, man. Yeah, Amazon is the best way to go. I've got it in a physical book. There's a Kindle book. The audiobook is coming out literally as soon as audible will allow it to come out. And then if you want to learn more about us, our company is hasimanmarketing.com so there it is.

We'll have the link to everything. Kirby Hasselman, thank you so much for joining us today.

Thanks, Kirby.

Thanks, Kirby.

All right, Jeremy, we got to give me some music. He's never ready for this one.

No, it's not. There's too many of them.

Just hit me some music. There you go. There you go. Yeah, there you go. If you don't. If you can't get to the music on time, just play as much as you can over top.

I'm just gonna start. I'm just gonna start hitting all these buttons.

That's just hit everything thing. So that was an interview with Kirby Hseman. And check out his website and all his content's going on. I've known Kirby for quite a few years, an extraordinary human being writing amazing books. And we're gonna talk about another amazing company, nextiva. Voice over IP phone system. They're. There's amazing people. You know, Yaniv just texted me a few days ago, hey, how's it going? Y. Is. Is the senior VP like the number three in charge at A. I think they have 400, 500 people there. He's just like, hey, how you doing? Like, this is cool that they just check in. I have a special relationship with them. It's not like, like, hey, what's going on, everybody? Yeah, I've got a killer app for you. It's called Process Street. You know, your business lives or dies by its processes. You got to do it right and you have to have the team following it consistently. We know that in house, and that's why we implemented Process street and I encourage you to do the same. Process street is the easiest way to manage your team's workflows and recurring processes. In fact, it even comes with pre made templates for things like client onboarding, employee onboarding, sales processes, marketing processes, content publishing, promotion, customer support processes. You name it, the system has it. And now you'll have a consistent deliverable for your company. Do what we did and implement Process street in your business. Plus, I got a deal for you. If you sign up now at our link, you get 20% off. So go to mikemicalitz.com processstreet. That's mikemicalitz.com ProcessStreet. And if you're struggling spelling Michalowicz, you're not alone. Go to mikemotorbike.com Process Street. Don't throw that superfluous slash at the end that messes everything up. Go to mikemotorbike.com processstreet and get 20% off today.

You know what Kelsey said about him the other day?

I literally loved all of it.

Oh, dude, you're on top of these. These buzzes. And so. And nextivas, you know, is interested in helping us with the launch of Fix this Next. And my listening friends, Fix this Next is my book where I challenge the thesis or I present the thesis of this. The biggest challenge entrepreneurs face is knowing what their biggest challenge is. If you're stuck in the struggle, taking two steps forward and three steps back, Fix this Next will help you diagnose what to work on immediately. Now, it comes out in just a week or two from this broadcast. Go live date on April 28. Make sure you get your copy of Fix this Next. All right, Jerry Colone.

Yes, Jerry.

Yeah.

Let's start for Jeremy. He's like, yeah, whatever, Jerry. Jeremy can be Jerry, right?

Yeah.

Or that's sort of for Gerald.

No, I don't like Jerry.

Oh, we found a hot button. Hit something. Oh, yes. Now, I think for our audios, we can only play them for, like, five seconds or less before as a. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Jerry, we have to, like, speed.

It up really fast.

Yes.

What did you learn today?

I. I just. In terms of the morning productivity, I think that a lot of that stuff gets missed. I always hit the snooze button or I just don't hear it at all. But I will. I. I literally will set five alarm clocks three minutes apart.

Wow.

So that I.

What time you go to bed?

I've been up for 30 hours. I haven't gone.

Lord, I haven't gone to bed. Yeah, dude. What time would you normally go to bed? Or do you have a normal bedtime?

I try and go to bed depending on what I'm working on. Sometimes I'm just wired. I try and go to sleep by, like, midnight's the cup.

Okay, well, you know what? There's some people that are night owls and something. Yeah. So you need a structure where you can start later in the day.

Yeah. I'm trying to start getting up early and going to bed early.

I'm in bed at 8 o' clock.

What?

I set my Alexa so she plays music really loudly.

What time do you go to bed?

I try to go to bed, like 9:30.

That's. That's late.

But I wake up by 4:30.

I know you get up so early. I go to bed. I get into bed. It's around 8, 8:30. I don't fall asleep until 9:30, but I get up at 5:30. So that's eight hours, I think. Or nine. Yeah, but yeah, yeah.

So Alexa wakes me up with music, so it's like I can't even ignore her. I gotta dance, you know?

But you can yell, alexa, shut up. Or try.

But I can't really. Cuz I have it set downstairs and it's so loud that she doesn't hear me when I yell at.

That's pretty smart.

Cool.

That's smart. Your neighbors really love it too. What'd you learn today?

I learned. I shouldn't say I learned, but I feel like it was a really great point that if you are a bastion of joy and hope, people will want to hang out with you. And I think it's twofold because not only will the right people want to hang out with you, but the wrong people will not want to hang out with you. So it's like pumpkin player when just you're getting rid of the people that you don't want to work with. It's like the best polarizing way to be is just super happy and joyful. Right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And thanks for pulling away from the microphone as you said that. Oh. The most important thing to be is. Couldn't hear this.

Mysterious.

Yeah, it was very mysterious. I loved, actually, I loved everything Kirby had to share the conclusion. He says like either you give or you ask. I love that delineation. Because to your point, there's the humble brags, which is. And there's bragging. Yeah, yeah. And. And there, there's the dentist cards piss me off. I don't know why. That's my trigger or one of. One of my triggers.

Like I like your point was your own point. It was a really good point when you talked about the dentist cards.

It's called a humble brag. I humbly say it was amazing.

Three things in one. There. It was a humble brag and. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And my teeth. And I was also identifying. My teeth are amazing. I'm amazing. You saw those Chiclets I had. So we have a picture of us, you know, when we were kids. We need yours still.

It's up there.

It's up there.

It's the second one I got the cutest.

Oh, I didn't. What did you put up today?

I think she didn't put it this way.

Oh, I didn't see it.

Yeah.

So there's a picture of me up as a kid and the chick. I had the most buck teeth, like they were coming almost straight out. Right. Every time you come out of your office, it's just me sitting there.

It's like.

Like if you. I get like a vampire. Get a clang. Like clamp onto your shoulder and like, hold on to you.

Yeah. I don't know what Amy did in my picture, but it looks like I took lipstick and painted it all over my mouth. It's really creepy.

She's a bastard. All right, you got a game for us?

I got a caller.

Oh, that's even better. It's do it live.

I can. I'll write it and we'll do it live.

Let's do it.

So this is Brandy.

Where's Brandy from?

Brady's from Michigan.

Oh, I love Michigan. I don't like the Wolverines, though. Or the Spartans. You don't know.

Thanks for calling Homemade. How can I help you?

Hey, Brandy, this is Jeremy from Entrepreneurship Elevated. How are you?

Hey, Jeremy, how are you?

Good. So I got Mike here.

Hey, Brandy, how are you?

Hi, Mike.

So we are good. It's cool to be hanging out with you. Haven't seen you in a while. So we're live in the studio right now. And I understand through Jeremy that you had a question that maybe we can try answering.

I do. So I have run a employee model cleaning business for 22 years. And for fun, I'm opening a second cleaning business in a completely different city that I'm going to run remotely and run at least initially using independent contractors.

Wow.

And. And my plan is to pay them in the 50 to 60% range. Just flat. I charge flat rate and they'll be paid on a commission. Yeah, I can control the cost there, but I'm wondering what. How to. Because it's. I can just do profit first from day one. So I super confused on how to set up those percentages. Allocation percentages in my.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So for this new location, it's all contractors. So what we do in profit first is when the. A large portion of your business, over 25% of your revenue gets allocated to either subcontractors or to materials that we need to pull out that case separately. So in your case, it's. It's these subcontractors. 50 or 60 so say it's 60, say it's 50 round numbers. Say a thousand dollars comes in. We're going to allocate 50 of that, that's gonna be our allocation percentage to a, a account called subcontractors. So a thousand dollars comes in, it goes into the subcontractor's account. Now you have 500 left over. That then goes through the normal allocations, you know, 10% or profit, whatever the percentage you determine, 20% to owners pay, which is your compensation, and the remainder into OPEX for the operations of the business. But what happens now is say over the year you do $100,000. In business, the traditional mindset is like, oh, we have a hundred thousand dollar business. The reality is, because you're allocating 50% toward these subcontractors, you're basically taking money from customers and you're giving it to these subcontractors to do the work. Those customers could hire the cub contactors directly. It just be extraordinary effort. So what they're paying you for is the management of the subcontractors. So you're actually a management firm of subcontractors. And the remaining amount left over the other 50% is what your business is truly earning. So you don't earn 100,000, you earn 50,000. Does that help give you some clarity?

It does.

And so I guess my question is, do you have numbers that you recommend for that remaining 50%?

Yes, I do. So in the profit first book, there is a section that has the TAPS chart stands for target allocation percentages. And there's a section there for each one, says real revenue. Your real revenue is that remaining 50%. So this year, if you target overall sales of, let's say 100,000, and you're allocating 50% to our subcontractors, that puts you in the fifty thousand dollar real revenue range. The difference. And that's what you pick the numbers from? Yeah. Now with a small business, the taps, the target allocation percentages goes up to I think about $250,000 in total real revenue. So in a case like yours, until you hit about half a million dollars in revenue, you're going to be in the first column in the book. Okay, cool. Hey Brandy, we got a roll, but thank you. Yeah, thank you so much for asking that. Wishing you a tremendous entrepreneurial success. Rock on.

See?

Ready?

Thank you.

Bye bye.

All right.

I like that better than me just hanging up on people mid sentence. Yeah, yeah, that wasn't as good. I like, I like allowing people to actually say thank you or especially when they're mid sentence. I love when Aaron's like, hey, Mike, I have a question. Like, cut him. Cut him. Because he was asking me complex stuff I couldn't answer.

Yeah, that was great.

Yeah. What else we got? We have a game.

We do have a game.

Give me some music for a game.

All right, here's the game. Ready? All right. Classic. Dead or alive here. So three people.

It's done.

It is done. You can turn it back on again.

I just had to do the last part. He.

So three people? Yes, all entrepreneurs. Two are alive and one is not.

So we name the dead person.

Actually. Wait, did I do this wrong?

Oh, man.

Oh, Lord.

I forget.

One's real.

Seven.

A fake. Seven. No, there's only three. I have no idea.

One is alive.

Okay.

And two are dead.

One living, two debt. Okay, so. And we. Who do we pick? That one living. Clearly. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay.

All right. Thomas Stemberg, founder of Staples, founded on July 4, 1985. Stemberg was frustrated that he could not find the correct printer ribbon, so he started Staples.

Okay.

Augie Johnston, founder of a company called Vid Chops is a video service that helps YouTubers and edit video editors by eliminating 50 of their editing workload.

Okay.

And then last we have Doug Tompkins, owner and founder of North Face. And is it Espirit or Esprit?

Esprit.

Is it a spree?

Neither.

I love that you're now the new. The new victim of her mockery. Yeah, used to be me. But now you run the games.

Your script, it looks like E Spirit. I don't know.

What was his name again?

Doug Tompkins.

Doug. Okay, so this is. I think the North Face guy may have passed, but, you know, the. The Augie Johnson or whatever that. That's. You're picking a company no one's heard of. Video Chops.

Yeah, Vid Chops.

Vid. Oh, Vid Chop. Yeah. No one's heard of that one either.

Well, who said it had to be a company that you heard of?

Well, everybody.

Yeah, basically. That's how you play the game.

The whole point. If it's not a notorious company.

Exactly.

No.

Oh, that's part of the crux of it.

But, like, what if a guy had a business down the street? Like, you know, Sal's Hair Salon? Oh, how's Sal doing? Who the f. Would know?

You never heard of Vid Chops?

Really?

No. Nor have you. I have.

Yes.

What do they do?

They do video editing. It saves time on your video.

Oh, okay. It's a good business, but Jesus no one's heard of them. They need a market.

I heard them.

They should make a video that people are recognizing.

Also work in the video arena.

That's true.

Sorry. I'll never do this game ever again. Forget Dead or Alive.

You'll be like, the game's over. The creator dead or boy alive. All right, I'm going to go with Doug.

I'll say Thomas Slumber.

I go with Doug Thompson. Thompson Hard face.

You're. You're saying he's alive?

He's dead.

He's like the alive.

Oh, yeah. I'm going to do Thomas Sternberger. Still alive.

Okay. And what do you say, Kelsey?

I said the same.

Oh, nope. He's.

If it's a video. Freaking chops guy. This game is over.

Auggie's alive.

It's the video chat.

It's the dumbest game ever. Thought that was easy because he's for YouTube.

YouTube's been around not nearly as long as these other companies.

Yeah, but if you.

If it was the actual creator of YouTube, maybe that would be good. But instead it's been cuts.

Oh, you guys.

Is it Vin Cuts? Vincuts. Vincuts. Vid Chops. Oh, no. Vincuts took over. He's dead now. Vid Chops alive.

All right, guys, thanks for a great podcast.

Hi, everyone. Now Jerry feels the pain I just experienced. Hey, we hope you're getting some joy, happiness, and learning a lot. Hope you learned about giving today. Thanks again to our wonderful guest, Kirby Hosman. And make sure you check out his website. And one more thing, we love for you to visit mike motorbike.com we got some cool stuff coming out, including my brand new book called Fix this. Next. You can get all the dates right now, plus some free stuff by going to mike motorbike.com click on get the Tools and we will hook you up like you've never been hooked up before. All right, we'll see you. We're out of here. Bye. Bye.

Sam.