Next Level Leadership with Gene Hammett

There's one event that I'd argue you have to go to. If you. If you care about profitability, that is. It's called Profit first Live. We run a workshop right here at our offices in Boonton, New Jersey. Yeah, our physical offices. And I want to personally invite you to come to the event. I will teach you, along with my colleagues, on how to drive profitability in your business. If you've read the book, but you're not sure if you're getting profit first right, this is your opportunity. So go to Profit First Live dot com. That's profitfirstlive dot com. There's multiple dates available. And if you're serious about profitability, well, get serious about getting your butt over here. All right, my friends, it is time to strap on your jiggly fish ball. We're about to discuss the changing demands of leadership, how you have to change as your business grows. You're about to hear that and so much more on today's episode of Entrepreneurship Elevated. I'm jacked up.

Yeah.

Yeah. I like this music.

Me too.

Well, welcome to our show Entrepreneurship Elevated. My name is Mike Michalowicz. I am an author on admissions mission to eradicate entrepreneurial poverty. You know, that financial struggle, that time struggle. All you do is work, work, work. Your business just seems to continue just to get by. But we fix that on this. Every episode, I'm joined in studio by my dear friend, my feet, F E a T. You'll learn what that means one day at some time when the book comes out. Kelsey Harris. Welcome, Kelsey.

Hey. Hello, friend. You can find us on Spotify. I've done it on different episodes. Spotify, iTunes, iHeartRadio, Stitcher, TuneIn Radio. Wherever you listen to podcasts, make sure you subscribe.

Yeah. So, Kal, before we get into this episode, we got Gene Hammett coming on a dear friend of mine. He talks about some really fascinating stuff when it comes to leadership. You are back. Yesterday's your first day back after two months away.

I know. It's crazy.

I literally could barely hold back tears when I saw you.

Oh, I know.

And I can barely. And now I'm thinking about it. I'm almost about to cry again.

I know. It's so good to be home.

Oh, so good to have you back. How was your experience throughout Asia?

Honestly, it was amazing. It went smoothly. I met so many great people. I felt safe the whole time. I feel like I'm renewed. I feel like I've learned so much.

Really?

Yeah. Yeah. Like, it really honestly was amazing.

That's awesome. But you didn't know in there. Or. Very few people spoke English, at least in certain.

Yeah. Countries you were at, Particularly in Thailand, because I was in the most northern part and it was pretty rural where I was actually staying. So they didn't speak pretty much any English.

So what's that like to be. Because you were hosted by a family, too, you volunteered. You volunteered at multiple nunnery at a place for women that have been sex trafficked. I mean, some. Really. You put yourself in some situations where there's a desperate need for help, yet you're in a country where they don't speak English.

Yeah.

And you're hosted by a family who doesn't speak English.

Yeah. It was tough, honestly. And it was kind of lonely, too, to just be an observer in that way, which I loved too. It's just great to be sort of a fly in the wall and see what life is like someplace else. But it's also hard because I wanted to be part of it. I wanted to get that depth of experience. But it's hard to get. Luckily, at the first place that I was at in Thailand, it was an aids, hiv, sexual health awareness. And I stayed with a family, but luckily they worked with a sister agency who had a volunteer who was from Thailand who could translate for me.

That helps.

Yeah. So anytime we had meetings with the community members and the villagers, then I could get that depth of understanding, which was so much better.

And the funny thing is, like, you know, you use Google Translate, but the vernacular we use, or I don't even know if that's the right choice of words itself, but the way we speak does not necessarily translate directly. If you say, hey, what's going on?

Exactly.

Like, that makes sense. But wait, what's going on? The direct translation is like, you know, in what direction is something moving?

Yeah.

People, it must be really hard.

And I think in Thai language too, they have this sort of lyrical way of speaking where they don't say things directly. Or at least that's what Google Translate seem to say. Like. Yeah, they say things in more of a roundabout way.

Very lyrical.

Yeah.

Sir Mix a lot was actually from Thailand, I believe.

Yeah. So Google Translate wasn't 100% effective.

So we. We missed you so much that we were sending you videos occasionally just to. And so our videos, it was me and Amy predominantly. And we just sit here and like, just send you the most ridiculous things that you didn't prepare us. And there's one video actually was too big to send, but we would say, like, you didn't give us instructions, like, if we had to go to the bathroom, like, I know, right?

I got that one.

And Amy's like, I've been holding my pee and trying to meditate it away. It was, like, so funny.

Amy's a really good actress, by the way.

Amy's really good.

She had it in her.

I had no clue. Yeah, so her father was an actor, and I think that's part of it. There's one video Amy's came up with this idea. She's like, let's talk about these chairs that we're sitting on and the wheels on them, and how do we move the chair when it's too far away? Even though it was wheels, like, it was just this ridiculous thing about moving chairs. I got to send you the video because it was too big. I got to share it with you. She is really talented. Yeah, the facial gesture she makes.

Exactly. You guys kept a straight face, like, there was no way I could have done those videos.

She's unbelievable. Yeah. All right, cows, we got some games we're gonna play later today. We have the product name, the fake product. Jeremy's not here with us today. He got a motorcycle accident. I know, but he's fine. He's okay. He's okay. Here. This is one last thing before we get on to our guest. I talked to Jeremy. I go, hey, dude, I heard about your motorcycle accident. Are you okay? Because, yeah, I got really messed up. I hurt my shoulder. He skidded out on some debris in the road. And I'm like, okay. So I said, at least you're okay. I guess motorcycling is over. He goes, not now. That's a rite of passage. I'm like, dude, hate that, dude. You wiped out. Severely wiped out. You're so lucky to have not become paralyzed. You know, it's not.

Ah, I know.

So I was hoping he would end that because it's just dangerous. It is dangerous. You know, motorists are driving. They don't pay attention to motorcycles. It's a flimsy thing. And in Pennsylvania, you don't have to wear a helmet.

I know.

Okay.

So crazy.

All right, do we have any listener shout outs?

We do.

I always sticky notes, like, don't mention listener shout outs, but I don't know what episode we have. Nothing, Mike.

Okay, ready?

Yeah. Lay it on me.

This comes from Trevor Hotlanta, too. He writes, this show has been a great resource for me in growing and scaling my business sustainably so far. You are awesome, Mike.

Oh, thank you. I do want to thank our corporate partners who make the show a reality. When I say partners, all I mean is nextiva. I gotta do full disclosure. I've been invited to sit on their board. Nice. They have this big board of wood outside the building. They said, would you just sit on it? And I said, yeah, sure, that's perfect. Yeah. They just want someone out there sitting on this board. So I'm going to be sitting on their board. And our first meeting is actually a few weeks after this recording. So I'm excited to be doing that. They've been a supporter of us for ever since the inception of this business, so God bless them.

Yeah, I love nextiva.

Yeah, I love them. All right, let's get to the meat and potatoes. All right. Gene Hammett, who ironically eats meat and potatoes, is a leading expert on high growth company culture and leadership. He has decades of experience with more than $40 million in revenue for the companies he, he has led and owned. Gene's interviewed more than 400 CEOs of high growth companies to understand the core principles of fast growth. He consults companies to activate new growth and reduce the high cost of ineffective leadership. And today, Gene is going to join us to talk about how you, my dear friend, entrepreneur, need to change as your business grows. Gene, welcome to our show.

Welcome, Gene.

Excited to be here, Mike, to have you, man. Last time I saw you was at a BMW event, I believe, mere months ago.

Absolutely. You did a great job there.

Thank you. And it was, it was a blessing to see you, I think your lovely life, wife and life was both with you. And you were, hey, listen, you were. And I sat down, we went a few minutes. You offered me a ride actually to the airport and we were talking and you brought this concept of how people need to change. I just thought that when you start a business and you have a vision, it's all about go for the vision and bring that chutzpah and drive you've always had. But what I'm hearing from you is something different, that there's changing elements learning that needs to happen. Give me the premise of this need to change.

So as a business owner, I had a great idea back in 2001 and that idea I got immediate success. It was the kind of the verge of E commerce. We started selling $1,000 a day, which is kind of cool. And then it moved into 2,000 a day and 3,000 a day and 10,000 a day. And we just kept growing from there. And so we had to hire people. Well, my revenue capabilities were way up, you Know, kind of top level as far as the company was going. But my leadership capability needed work. Have you ever felt like that?

Yeah, but I don't want to admit it.

Well, we don't want to admit it, but we have to really be real for some of the times when we're going as leaders that we have to evolve. And I had to learn how to lead people. I had to learn how to engage them. And I made some big mistakes and I can share one of them now that probably can. People can relate to.

Yeah. Well, lay it on me.

In the beginning of the business, I wanted to really support my team. So I had six employees at a full time. A bookkeeper because I had some. Had so much volume of coming in. And my job was to fix the problems. Right. I was the firefighter and I came in every day stressed out because I was there to fix the problems, the customer problems, the money problems. If toner needed to be put into the everything, I did it. And so I wanted to let my team know that I was taking care of them. But in reality, I wasn't letting them grow because we weren't. I was the bottleneck in the company.

Interesting. Kels, we were talking about this just a half hour ago. Is you feel this need to be of service. But Gene, what I'm hearing is being of service is not necessarily doing for them. Is it. Is it something different?

Well, one of the best things you can do as a leader is to develop other leaders. I know you are big on team and you have a lot of people that think for themselves and you hire. Right. But as a leader, your job is not to think for them, is to let them think for themselves and solve these problems.

But it's so easy, Gene, just to do it. It takes a few minutes just to do it for them. It takes so much longer.

That's one of the big dangers, Mike, because if you come from a place where you. You wore that hat before and you know how to do it, you can just do it or you can. You know what happens when you think you're doing the right thing is just tell them what to do. But if you tell them what to do, they don't think for themselves. And you want them to figure out what the real issue is. You want them to think about the next steps or the options, and you want them to come to you with these ideas and help you think through them. And for you to, you know, kind of evolve as a leader and not always have the decision, but let them figure it out so that's one aspect of the evolution of leadership. But I can take it even further.

Yeah, I want to go further. I do want to jump back though. You've done all this research. You, you're one of those weirdo guys that actually enjoys researching out what makes companies tick. And I know you worked with over 400 fast growth companies. I just want to understand a little bit about what's the drive behind that research and some of the discoveries perhaps, and then jump back to this next step.

The drive came a couple of years ago when I was at a huge professional speakers conference, the NSSA conference. And I saw someone up there talk about their understanding of trust. And I thought, trust is such an important thing. But he had it broken down into eight areas and he had been interviewed hundreds and hundreds of companies and I said, you know, what's my thing? Where am I going to go deep? And I thought about growth because all of my clients wanted to grow. They wanted to add more revenue, they want to add more team, they wanted to grow, grow, grow. It's like I'm going to study growth. And so that's what I've done. For the last two plus years. I've really leaned into talking to the fastest growth companies. The Inc 5000. You're familiar with that list, right? Those guys are really smart and there's some women on there too. I say that because I've been really looking to connect with a lot of the women on this list. It's a little bit harder. They're just not there as often. And I really been working hard to interview them on what makes them grow. And what I've been discovering is it's not about their marketing tactics or the sales tactics. It's more about the lead leadership and culture that make a company grow fast.

Okay, okay, so it's leadership and culture. Now let's go on to that second step. You were about to reveal that I kind of inserted myself.

No, it's, you know, really looking at some of the bigger fast growth companies. Let me give you some context. I had an interview on my podcast a few weeks ago that published about hiring the best employees. Well, this company was called Velocity Global. Ben Wright's the founder there, CEO, and they grew 39,000% over three years. Now, I don't know what their profitability, because I know you talk a lot about profit first, but they went from a couple of hundred thousand that first year to 49 million. They had over 200 employees. That's a lot, right? And they, that's just one of the Examples. But, you know, all of these interviews together, I started looking at what are the commonalities. And one of them really stood out. And it's, it's. This idea is all about responsibility because I asked this question, how do you get your employees to take responsibility for fast growth goals? And a lot of these founder CEOs would come back and say, it's not about responsibility, we want them to take ownership of the goals.

Okay, okay. So I want to know now because we're talking about the evolution of the leadership. So how do I need to change the leader of my organization for my employees to start acting like owners?

Well, when I've looked at all this research, you have to really think about who they are as a person, what they want, how they want to grow. And if you provide that inside the workforce, you really do create a place that they, they love to come to work to. And they don't feel, they don't do the work out of responsibility, they do it out of ownership. And that takes a certain type of leadership. You can't just solve their problems. You can't just put snacks in the break room. You've got to truly tune in to what they want, how they want to grow, and you've got to create the kind of place that they love to bring their ideas and think about it. And it really is about encouraging them to have a little bit more of an entrepreneurial spirit. Because those people that have that entrepreneur spirit, they have more resilience, they have more vision for where you're going, and they're willing to be proactive, not just reactive to what's going on in the business.

You know, what I'm hearing is ultimately, I guess everyone is an entrepreneur of their own life. You have a vision or an outcome you want, and if you get clear on that, then they can use their job as a means to achieve that. You know, and it's funny, down the street, cows, I don't know if you notice, there's a coming down the street. They have this big open space at the floor level and there's a foosball table sitting right in the middle.

No.

Oh, you haven't seen it? No one is ever playing foosball. It just sits there and Gene, have you seen. You haven't seen that Kaus? No.

Oh, where is it?

A few blocks up across from that Thai place. It's like a tea Thai place. Like, you know, Boot Nav, the corner up there. It's right up there. I don't want to say the company's name okay, but Gene, why doesn't that work? Because, Because I can't tell you how many TV shows I watch or buildings I walk by where you have the foosball table, you have the, all these different kind of things to make a fun culture, yet they just sit there stagnant and the business doesn't seem to have a fun culture. Actually, that reverse may happen.

Well, I worked in one of those places. I worked in a.com before 2001 and we had a pool table and we would spend some time in the pool table. I mean, I was there when the airplanes hit because that's where the TV was. 2001, you remember that?

We can actually see it from this building we're currently in. It was horrible.

That's crazy. But you know, what we found through the research is that, you know, employees want to have those fun elements, but what they care most about is growing as an individual inside that role. Their, their value to the marketplace. I know it sounds weird that it. But our, our job as leaders is to give them the skills to make them more valuable overall, but to create a place that they don't want to leave from. And that's, that does take a certain evolution as a leader because I work with a lot of fast growth companies and you would, you wouldn't, you'd probably be surprised when I said that they're, even though they're doing, you know, millions of dollars, maybe it's 10 million or 20 million or 50 million in revenue, that they still have doubt in themselves and they're still in a journey of evolution.

Is there a trigger for change just to set the stage? Say I start a business, it's just me, I have to do stuff. Is it when I have certain number of employees, I need to behave differently? Is it when I hit certain revenue? What are the triggers that I as a leader need to change how I am leading?

You know, let's look at it from a place of revenue or not revenue employees. So when you are just, you, yeah, you're just trying to find product, market fit, you're trying to get a few customers, you're trying to figure out is this thing going to work. Right. So you're pretty excited once it starts working. You start hiring people to do the jobs that you don't want to do or can't do. And as you get to about five people, things drastically have to change. You have to have meetings, you have to have structure and process and your favorite, you have to have systems.

Right.

Love your work book, by the way. Clockwork has really changed the way my business runs.

Love your book. Trap of success, my brother. Right back at you.

So, you know, at five people, you have to be a certain type of leader. You're more hands on, you're much more in the thick of it or in the trenches. As you get to 10, things shift again. The different frequency of meetings happens. There's different teams are developing and forming. As you get to 30 again, it starts to shift again in a major way. And if you're not prepared for these things, you really will miss out on opportunity. You'll find stress, you'll even have some downturns if you're not very careful. But you have to evolve in each of those steps. My what I'm proud of and what I do with people day in and day out is help them through these defining moments as leaders. And as you go past 30, you can imagine when you get to a hundred, it's a whole new ball game when it comes to the kinds of HR requirements that you have and how you have to structure things and how everything that goes on and you can't do it all. You can't even meet every one of your employees and know their personal lives as well as you used to.

So it's funny, my friend Chris, he runs a company, 49 employees they have, and he's been 49 employees for the last 10 years. And it grew like, you know, 1 7, 25, 49. And it's a mistake. I'm like, why 49? He's like, dude, the day you have 50 employees, everything changes. There's actually law, at least in New Jersey, maybe this is federal, that you have to give equal. I don't know if it's equal rights, but. But there's basically requirements to make sure that you're. Your business is representative of all of a community. And he goes, it will put me under. He's like, I need people. I need the people I have. And if I have to comply with this stuff, so I'm just gonna stay at 49 people. Now that's law that's dictating his behavior. But do you find Gene, there's a certain point where entrepreneurs aren't capable of expanding or growing themselves.

I think we do hit ruts. And I'll tell you my personal story here. I ran a business and I got it to 5 million. And I evolved a lot in that first three years. And I got comfortable. I got to a place where I really wanted to do this. At the peak of my business, I did a international sports tour Company. I don't think you know much about my background, Mike. So I sold tickets to big sporting events. If you. If you can think of it and watch it on tv. I had clients that went to these huge international sporting events. I would take 1200 people to the masters. I took 8500 people to Beijing Olympics.

Wow. And they're all personal friends, by the way.

No, they were all clients and families of athletes and things like that. So I had 15 employees for me through most of those peak periods. And it was really difficult, but I loved what I was doing to us, to a place. But I knew that I should evolve the business. I'd gotten to a place at 5 million and got complacent. You know, lots of income coming in, paying myself first sometimes. And I was really afraid to let go of what I had created to create something new. And so I. That's the reason I wrote a book called the Trap of Success. The only way I got out of it. And I don't. I don't think this is what is. Hopefully this is not what happens for everyone. But I ended up losing $3 million with a deal on my best friend. That was nine years ago. And that caused me to reflect back. It was very painful. And so I look back and say, you know, I wasn't evolving as. As a leader. I didn't have the same level of courage that I kind of digressed, I guess, if you will, because the courage I had in the beginning was just like, just go for it. And then I was like, being very. Playing not to lose instead of playing to win.

Yeah. Yeah.

And that. That evolution was negative toward me. So I. I decided to help leaders do that. That's what I do day in, day out, is help leaders through those defining moments. But that's kind of the reason I wrote the Trap of Success, because I got complacent and I was drifting along, and there was something that needed to activate that and that. That happened to be losing $3 million.

Okay, so does it require that slap to the face or financial heart attack for leaders to have this realization for change?

No, but it's so much easier when it happens. You know, we've all had something where maybe a death in the family. My father died 14 years ago, and that really changed the way I saw business in my role. And we do reflect back in those times, but you don't have to go through it. You can decide to create a proactive approach to your business. When I went through Clockwork, your book, last year, and really kind of revamped the way my podcast runs and the way I operate the business. I was just. I. I wanted to be much more proactive. I wanted to be in control of. Of and predictable. And I don't think you have to wait for things to fall apart.

Okay, that's good. But you. You talked about in, I think it was in your book, you talked about this customers first versus team first mentality that leaders have. Can you tell me the difference between this customer first versus team first mentality?

Yeah, that's actually not in the trap of success. That will be in my next book.

Do you have it defined yet?

I haven't defined it. I need to talk to you about my next book.

Call it Profit Firster.

I will tell you, I'm kind of playing around with the title being team first. And here's the reason. Fast growth companies care more about the team members than. Than they do about the customers.

Interesting. That almost spits in the face of everything we've been told it does. What the customer says is right and all that stuff.

I get it. And when you grow up, when your business is kind of getting that product market fit, you're so customer focused. And the marketing is always going to be customer focused. Sales is customer focused. And that's where the company should be. Customer focused or customer centric. But the leader's job is to develop the people so that the people will take care of the customers. And so when you really think about that, I know how much you care about your team, Mike. If they don't feel cared for, they don't feel like they're growing, they're going to lose interest in taking care of your customers.

Yeah, yeah.

And so it really does have a little bit of a. I mean, that's one reason I think it's a good book, because it's different than what people think is customer first. Like that book would be. Most people would be like, oh, yeah, sure, that's the way it's supposed to be. But writing team first, I've done over 400 interviews with these Inc level leaders. They're growing really fast. And I asked them that same question. What's more important to you? Your employees, your customers? And 94.4% will come back and say, absolutely, it's employees.

Yeah.

I'm not saying it's an easy answer, and there's some hemming and hawing sometimes, but there are definitely some categories of people that are like, oh, I know, absolutely. I know categorically it is employees first. And so I feel like a better term for that is team first. What do you think?

Yeah. No, I agree. I like that title, I think inherently, of course, but, you know, when that moment springs upon you where it's a customer saying, you know, kelsey's the worst person I've ever worked with, and this is a $300,000 deal, why does Kelsey even work there? Now I'm faced with, you know, that's a big deal for our company, and I may become shortsighted. Actually, it's funny. I think it's in Simon Sinek's book Leaders Eat Last, where he talks about when a leader challenges actually a client and rejects the client for not treating the employees well, that the company. The strength of the company enhances dramatically because the employees see that the leader won't kowtow to a bitching and moaning client. So I agree 100% with what you're saying. I just think in the moment, that's a real gut check.

It is. And I think you need to look at it at the macro level. Like, day in and day out, what are we doing to make sure that our employees are put first, how they feel about the work they're doing, how they're growing, the level of responsibility that you're giving them or ownership, and that has such a dramatic effect to how well they take care of the employees or their customers. So you really have to step back a little bit and go, you know, how do I get more proactive about creating the right structure, the right kind of leadership so that these people that we care about will take care of the customers?

Hey, before we start wrapping things up here, I'm just curious about if there's any intrinsic or emotional sensations that a leader will have. That kind of the call for change. You outlined a nice little strategy at five employees, 10 employees. I just wonder when you know, is there a way to know that what you have been doing isn't working anymore? Is there a way to look inwardly and say, just what I've been doing in the past worked, but it's not working now?

That's a really great question, because a lot of the work I do as a coach is an inward aspects of this. I have a unique balance to look at the inward and the external to what's going on as far as growth. But there's a lot of overwhelm that leaders will feel like they could be getting a lot more done. There's a lot more opportunity out there. If the company has demand, then that overwhelm ends up turning into pressure, that pressure ends up turning into stress. And stress is really sucks the energy out of you. So if you start to feel things really sucking the energy from you day in and day out, you know, there's probably, you know, something going on internally that you need to make a shift or evolve through. I work with a lot of leaders on something that I didn't think would be an issue because I've always been a very decisive person. But I've worked with a lot of leaders lately who've just been really struggling with making some really big decisions. I know it's hard, but I feel like once they tune in to what being indecisive means and what that does to the culture, it really has such a big effect. But making that shift to being decisive is something that I've helped a lot of leaders through that really does allow them to change and evolve and continue the growth that they want to be on.

I was rereading this morning Traction, actually listen to Audible Biking this morning by Gene, not by Gene, by Gino. Gino Wickman. And in his book, he says, and I think this is just a established belief that more businesses struggle from indecision than they do poor decisions. And making a poor decision at least moves you in a direction. It's this indecision that I think, you know, leaders really struggle with. Hey, Gene, before we let you go, I want our listeners first of all to know you're a popular main stage keynoter, you're an author, and you're a coach. Where can our listeners learn more about you, maybe even hire you for your services?

Just go to genehammet.com that's G E N E H A M M E-T T.com. that's where my podcast lives, which I've recently changed the name to Growth Think Tank. You can also find that if you like podcasts, you're listening to this, so you probably do. And I interview the only leaders from the Inc 500. So if you want to be a better leader, why not learn from those growing really fast? Those are the people I interview.

Oh, I love that. And he has a popular book called Trap of Success. I am telling you, my friends, pick up a copy. You don't want to be trapped in your progress. You want to always be moving forward. And that book has the keys to doing it. Gene, thanks for joining us today.

Thank you, Gene.

Thanks for having me.

You can't touch this. In Thailand, this song is. Is it popular at all?

No.

Were any of the Western songs popular?

Yeah, they liked like 90s music in Myanmar a lot.

Oh, I Would have loved Myanmar.

But in Thailand, they didn't really listen to a lot of western music. It was a lot of, like, K pop and their own Thailand. Malaysian music. Yeah.

I was in. Was it Rosita? I can't remember. In Mexico, a small little town, and walking around this little village had the most amazing longosta dinner ever. Lobster. And it. It was like $3. It was unbelievable. And then I. This is 15 years ago now. It's probably $4. Then I walked over to this bar, and there was. It was like. It was dirt floors. It was like someone's home that converted into a bar. A couple stools, and there was one flat panel tv, you know, wires kind of askew. And all they're playing was Michael Jackson.

Yeah.

Like, you know, and they. They love Lisa's bar. Loved it. And I was the only American there. It was all Mexicans. Everyone was so into Beat It Dirty. When Dirty Diane came on, oh, my God, they lost their minds. I had to buy a round of Cabo Wabo for everybody, which, by the way, no one in New Mexico drinks Cabo Wabo. It's such an Americanized Sammy Hagar tequila. We have to have tequila questions later. You know, we should do that because we're both tequila fans.

Yeah.

All right, Kelsey, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna recap what we learned. We are going to play a little game. We're gonna get. We ask Gene to come back for that. And first, I have something special I want to talk about next to you. Oh, yeah, Well, I want to buy next diva. Oh, we also have listener mail, I think, today, right? Yeah. Okay. I do want to talk about nextiva. Voiceover IP phone system. Did I tell you I'm on the board now?

Yeah, sitting on that board.

So, people, I'm a big board setter. So when. When people go, hey, Mike, what do you do for a living? Like, yeah, I meet a lot of people, and I'm like, oh, I sit on a board. It's really feels my ego now. Isn't that funny? And the thing is, it's like, it's not a real board. It's a board of advisors. Like, I'm getting paid for this. They're not flying me in on a private jet. I probably will be sitting on a board in the board meeting, which would be hysterical. And, well, they're next level. It's next level. It's next level for me. But they're a voiceover IP phone system. We've been using them forever. They're fantastic. It's sophisticated phone technology that the big companies use that you, even as a one person practice, can use and have that professional presence. And it's affordable and it's easy. And I sit on their board. Do you get that? I'm a board sitter. All right, Kelsey, what'd you learn today from. From. Oh, do I. Is there a button? What did I learn today? I'll see if I can find it. But what did you learn today from Gene?

Are you playing it Bruh?

No, I can't find it. I think I delete it. I'll play two bruhs and I'll play Hallelujah. Any Columbia? Come on, man. Nah. What'd you learn?

So this is awesome. I really agree with the idea of team first. I just feel like even on a bigger macro level, in a capitalist society, as small business owners, we have the capacity to make a difference in the lives of the people that work for us. And so by serving them in a holistic way, as opposed to, you know, just an employee doing a role, I think we're serving society more effectively as well. But it's just a more fulfilling work environment to know that you're actually serving the people that you're around every day.

You know, like, I can't wait to come to work. Not for the work, but, like, to hang out with you.

Yeah.

And Amy and Jenna and I'm so upset jbone's not here. Like, it's so fun.

Yeah. You guys bring so much joy to my life, you know, likewise.

And as a result, the business is a stronger business. I was. I came in on a Friday. I was down at the beach. I came back on Friday early for my vacation because I had to do this one podcast or something. But it was a weird time. It was like 6 o' clock on a Friday. And I walk in and all of a sudden hear the door creak open. Like, upstairs. Like, that's kind of weird. So I walk over there as Amy. I'm like, what are you doing? Aren't you on vacation? Oh, I'm leaving tomorrow. She's like, there was a blog post that there's a typo in the title, like one letter. And she's like, I couldn't do it from home. I couldn't log in. So I drove or walked, because she's walking distance. Drove over, walked over to work here and just wanted to fix this before I go because we need to get this right. She's not getting paid for that. She didn't track the time. And I'M like, amy, what drives you to do this? She's like, because it's the right thing to do. And she was like, I love you guys.

Yeah.

And I started crying. You know, like, I cry. All right, here's what I learned. I'm on the board of nextiva. That's what I learned. I felt that the. You're as a leader. This line was a killer. He goes, as a leader, your biggest responsibility is to develop other leaders. Gene Hammond hammers it out of the park. So you have to have a leadership culture. I also liked the fear of letting go of what we've had has to be surpassed, or we have to overcome the fear of letting go of what we had to get what you need. So there's this clinging effect. Like, oh, it's always worked. And this is who I am. And we kind of get in this. This routine. We need to break through that fear to get what we need. So I thought those were cool. Oh, yeah, One other thing. I'm sorry, I'm doing a triple here. But the energy suck. I said, what's the trigger for change? Like, internally, he goes, it's energy. When you feel the energy being sucked, that's the call to change.

Yeah. Yeah.

I love that this show sucks my energy at times.

No, I'm kidding.

I'm kidding. Oh, he's funny. Okay, Kels.

Yeah?

Do you want to play the game now?

I'd love to.

Okay. Gene, do we still have you? Yes, if you're on. Okay, good. So we're gonna play a game. Come on, man. And it's called Name the Fake Product. This is my. Actually my favorite game. You may have not heard it, Gene. Something I started recently. So I'm gonna explain the rules to you. You and Kalasi are on a team, and I have come up with a fake product. Now, the funny thing is I've embedded it among two real products. So I'm gonna read off the description of three products, one being the fake. All these are my descriptions. Now, I do use poetic license for some of these existing products just so that to dissuade or to cloak what the real and fake products are. But you, being a professional entrepreneur, should be able to see through my fakery. Is that cool? Do you get the rules? Yes. Okay. Did I overextend?

No, I got it.

He fell asleep. He's like, yeah, just shut up.

Mike just used so many words that didn't exist.

I know, I know. All right, I'm going to read through these three products. You guys just listen in And Gene, you're at first. I want you to identify the fake product. Here he goes. First one. The product name is Subtle Butt B U T T. The disposable gas neutralizer that adheres to your undies. Benefit from charcoal pads. With antimicrobial technology, the odor filters will neutralize even the worst rump rippers. Our proven technology combats all types of bottom burps. So go ahead and eat. Cover. Eat eggs covered with baked beans. The subtle butt 2.0 comes with reinforced soundproofing technology that catches both the stench and the screech. Each pack.

No.

Each pack includes five saving graces. We got your back covered. Literally. Warning, not effective on sharts. Okay, I may have added. I did. Okay. But again, poetic license. All right, next product number two. And this is why I was hoping J. Bone was here. Grizzly footprint shoes. The most competitive sport in the world is hunting. It is you versus wild, including wild hunters. You lurk for hours waiting for the prize animal to walk by. But it never happens because another hunter gets your prize catch. Or if you are hunting with Dick Cheney, he simply shoots you and never apologizes. I have that part with the grizzly. Did you see the movie Vice about Dick Cheney? He shot a man. I mean, this is a true story. Shoots fellow hunter. And he's never apologized for that. He blamed the guy with a grizzly. Footprint maker. Every step you take will leave realistic fresh grizzly prints behind. This is the surefire method to scare away other hunters and keep the prized part of the woods your own. Complement your fresh beast prints with our patented grizzly fur and put tufts in branches and bushes. The woods is yours again, and the prize catch awaits. Yeah, hunters could use that. All right. Third and final product is the Dip Lip. I think, Kelsey, you have one of these. Nothing gives more comfort than a little bit of chewing tobacco sandwiched between your gums and lips. You know that, Kelsey. You're a big chewer.

No, I'm not. Oh, gross.

Okay, you're a big spitter. But what about the damage it causes? It's hard to visualize the intrusiveness that loose tobacco can have in your mouth. Until now with the Mr. Dip lip hand painted 3D mouth model. Benefiting from the fresh like bio like technology allows you to retract the lips on this model and gives you an immediate visual on the effects that dipping has on your inner lips, gums, and teeth. Okay, so that was the three products. We have the Subtle butt as the gas neutralizer. We have the grizzly footprints. You can own the woods again. And we have the Mr. Dip lip visual, a 3D mouth model for tobacco chewing. Gene, you're up first. What product is the fake? Two of these are real.

I'm gonna say it's not easy because they're. They're all very crazy.

That's the idea.

Which. This is so magma.

I know, right? I know.

I'm gonna go with the grizzly foot.

Okay. You wonder why Gene's the main stage keynote. I'm the breakout guy. Because it's shit like this. What do you say, Kelsey?

I'm gonna say the Dip Lip.

Okay, so one of you is totally right. One of you is totally wrong. Gene Hammett, main stage keynoter, nails it out of the park. He can sniff out the fake, the grizzly footprint. Shoes are not real. Could you imagine wearing shoes? They would be like wearing clown shoes in the woods. You know how big grizzly feet are? Cows.

The tufts of hair.

Yeah, that was a. Yeah. Like, why do you need tufts of hair? And on the wood, it was at human hair, by the way. I didn't add that part. The Mr. Dip lip is a real product used by doctors to show the negative effects of tobacco chewing.

That sort of makes more sense.

Yeah, I left that part out because it would make it too. So they show the tobacco, and you got to see this. Google Mr. Dip Lip. And you see whoever did this model, they smear tobacco all over. This thing is the most horrific scene you ever seen. The subtle butt is a real product too.

Yeah, that sound.

Yeah.

Sounded like it could be real.

Yeah. So if you know anyone with that problem, you can give them five same graces. All right, Gene, you're the winner. I want to congratulate you. You win absolutely nothing. Okay, so, Kelsey, let's start wrapping things up here. I do want to know if we have any listener mail, though.

We do. This comes from Sissy Stengel.

Hey, Sissy.

She has a book club. And one of the ladies in there is a hairstylist. As a hairstylist, a lot of ladies have been stressed about how to figure out what the percentage is because our business is different. Some of us work solo, alone in a suite, and some of us have employees and more overhead. Honestly, most hair stylists take profit and pay last. Therefore, I believe this will greatly benefit us in this business. Any advice for how a hairstylist. As a hairstylist, we can assess our business? Or any advice on how we get the most profit first?

Yeah. And remember Martha Lynn, who was a hairstylist? What Was the name of her company Mirror Mirror. Mirror Mirror.

Yeah.

Which was in South Carolina, Austin or Austin Or Austin, South Carolina, Austin. They sound very similar. Well, Martha Lynn, a wildly successful business did the profit first system. Here was the trick. You start with a low profit percentage. You build your way up because there is this dynamic. You have employees, or you can have subcontractors. Basically, people are renting your chair in your space, but they're their own companies. Or you could just be a solo practitioner. So the dynamics change. Start with a low profit percentage. I suggest starting at 1 or 2% of profit. Do that for a quarter, see how you can cover bills. Then move it to 3% every quarter. Keep moving up a percentage until you find the number that works for you. That's the way you do it. All right. That was the subtle butt sound effect. All right, Kels, I think that's it for today's episode, right?

I think that's it, too.

Take us out.

And if you guys could just leave us a review and please subscribe on whatever podcast you listen to. Spotify, iTunes, iheartradio.

Yeah, yeah. What about. What was it? Spoo. DFI. What do you usually call it?

Spotafu.

Spotify. Spotafu. That's a Thailand pronunciation. Yeah, in Thailand.

Yeah.

There's one more thing you can do. Visit Mike McAllen. Now, listen to this. I know you don't know how to spell McCallowicz. I mean, who really does? But you do know how to spell Mike Motorbike, my nickname that I got in high school. And Gene Hammett calls me Mike Motorbike's name.

Is that a lie?

Yes. But go to mikemotorbike.com that'll forward you onto my website. And guess what? There's a whole new website that we sell.

I know. I love it.

Yeah.

Looks great.

Super cool. And up there, you can get tons of free resources. Every single one of my books, free chapters. Yeah, go there. Now, click on get the tools, and we will hook you up. And one more thing. I hope to see you at profit first, live and work with you personally later.

Bye, friend.