Achieving Career Success in the New Hybrid World of Work

Foreign.

Welcome to this week's Treasury Career Corner podcast, where I interview treasury professionals about their treasury careers. As you know, each and every week I talk to treasurers about how they.

Built their careers, where they are now.

And where they see both themselves and the treasury profession to go into next. In this week's extra special episode, which we recorded live in London at our recent Treasury Career Corner live event, I interviewed not one, not two, but three amazing treasury professionals at the peak of their careers, talking about how they achieved success, challenges they'd faced along the way, and then we finished up, as always, with great takeaways and where they see treasury profession going to next and what you should do to grow and develop your career. To add on to that, once you've listened to the podcast, you'll think, God, I'd love to come along to a great live immersion of the show. Well, he can bring it back to London in 2024 on the 18th of April and 21st of November. Drop us an email if you'd like to come along. We're also taking the show on the road, so we've got a global tour, so we're doing it across in the US and we're doing it across Europe. Get those dates in your diary. If in London, if you're not, let us know and that you'd like to come along and you're a listener, you're going to get priority entry. That's one of the things. That's one of the things way. I can say thank you if you like, but on this week's show, you're going to hear me interview Winnie Lee, group treasurer, ppd, previous podcast guest. So you can go back on that one. We'll put that in the show. Notes De Parli Chawler, treasurer at Moody's Corporation, and Matt Cornwall, Emmy, ahead of treasury operations at Chubb. As I say each and every week, enjoy this amazing special edition show and look forward to seeing you all guys soon.

Good evening, lovely people. No, no, that's not the way we started it. I know we've had a long day and there is free bit, there's not free beer, there's sponsored beer by lovely Darren. Darren, put your hand up. Right, that's the last time a Newcastle guy gets a round of applause like that, isn't it? Except for later when he's handing out three beers. So I'll do that again. Good evening. Ah, we are awake. Thank goodness. Right, thank you for joining us. It's amazing to actually see all of these happy smiley faces post Covid this thing called in person. A bit weird. So who am I and why am I hosting this? Extremely big head, as you can see. So I run the treasury recruitment company alongside the amazing Craig and Katie and Carly. We recruit you guys, move you around the room and then send out a bill. That's essentially what we do. Do it for 25 years. Recruit treasury analyst to group treasurer. This is not said as a sales pitch, rather why I'm here. And I've managed to persuade these three amazing treasury professionals to talk to you guys later on. And we'll do through the rest of the session, we will talk about and have some Q and A from you guys. If you don't ask questions, you're foolish. You've made all this effort to come here on a workday, see how much of a work day is tomorrow and ask the questions. Now, one of the reasons people have actually asked me, how do I get a lot of my knowledge through talking to treasurers each and every week. Started a podcast from my shed five years ago. Thought we'd do 10 episodes. We're now at 300. Subscribe there. It's on all platforms. But the amazing thing about it is I've learned so much. We're talking to over 300 treasurers and Winnie's been a guest and Topali and Matt will be persuaded later. That's another reason for the free drink. But topics of discussion tonight, we're going to talk about how these guys have built their treasury careers, what part has education played, what's been key to their success. We'll later on we'll also talk about, funny enough, hybrid working from home. It's not going to be dominated by that, but that's obviously top of mind. We'll do the Q and A. You're going to have some great questions, please, and then we'll have some takeaways. So firstly, we'll kick off with an introduction from each of these lovely people, starting with Winnie, over to you.

Right. Hi, everyone. My name is Winnie Lee. I'm actually a group treasurer for ppd, was part of the Thermo Fisher Scientific Inc. It's a New York stock exchange, you know, listed the company about 140,000 employees worldwide, produce about 45 billion turnovers a year. So the net income is about 8.4 to 10 billion US dollars a year. So the company is very big and we're operating many, many countries and territories. So the treasury side is very exciting because lots of exciting places they operate, which is fantastic. And from my mind, I really work with the company for PPD for 18 years now and then time just flies. And then from the beginning the company was listed company and it was sold ourselves delisted, sold to PE Co. Twice then actually at the end sold to our supplier Thermal official. So been through all of that and also in 2020 just before COVID actually we listed ourselves just before selling to Thermal. So I never actually have a dull moment working in PPD and my background is accountant and I was trained in Arthur Anderson and Deloitte and also working in the media company before. So working many countries which is actually keep everything exciting. Over to you.

Hi everyone. Deepali Chawla. I the treasurer for Moody's Corporation. So for those of you who don't know and sometimes I feel I have the need to explain, it's a risk assessment company. So we know Moody's is more prominently known for the ratings business, but we also are huge provider of analytics in terms of trying to help the organizations and to assess the risk and take intelligent decisions based on that on the tools that they that we provide them. I've been with Moody's for nearly five years now, prior to which I have been pleasure of working with Hewlett Packard, General Electric, Capital side and Huawei. And I see some representation from some of those companies here which is great to connect again but go into more detail on my on my career journey as it progresses. But glad to be here and looking forward to an engaging evening.

Matt, over to you.

Thank you. My name is Matt Cornwall. I'm the head of treasury operations at Chubb. Many people get that mixed up with the lot company where we're actually not that one, we're the other one. We're the largest property and casualty insurance company in the world. US parent and about similar to Winnie. $45 billion in revenue and probably the largest company I've worked for. As part of my role I look after essentially the transformation program, something called Treasury Transformation. We have a standardized payment architecture globally that we now have in 35 or 55 countries. That's a payment factory and many in house banks on a regional basis. And my job is to enforce and ensure that standardized architecture is rolled out in the company. And that's on top of everything else that's related to treasury operations and bau. My career started as an accountant similar to Willie again did that for about nine years. Found it far too exciting really. Left the dark side to join treasury probably about 15, 16 years ago. Worked with quite a variety of companies. If you told me 10 years ago that I'd Be in the insurance world and married an Essex girl. I'd laugh at you, to be honest, but it's a bit of a cliche and certainly enjoying it. I've been at Chubb about two and a half years now and have worked in the retail sector, FMCG and media. There's probably one I haven't worked in actually and really I find that certainly some of the topics we're going to talk about today I think will really explore. The three of us have had some very different routes into treasury and I think it's important to share to the younger members here and also show there's many routes into what we do.

So we're going to kick off with, as you see up here, education and qualifications and things like that. Now, any of you that were at the last session, I see a few familiar faces. We really went very proact and lots of education and we've got some differing views here as well but also one thing I would state is we're very pro education but in the nicest way we don't care where it comes from, whether that's from the US Association UK across Europe they do some great education but each of these panelists has got different not views but mix different attitudes. We start off with Winnie, education wise, obviously qualified accountant. What else have you found?

Yeah, so I obviously I did a BA in Finance, then actually did a Master in in Management Studies, then acca, then actually, you know, ACT training as well, so actually done various different qualifications. I find that you pick different things out of your education journey and also the sometimes it's not necessarily about the content. I still remember when I first studying BA in Finance doing accounting is completely different to now so not necessarily about the content but the skill set you learn from the education, the discipline you learn which is actually really carries you very well in the organization and then the communication presentation and also to sometimes in order to present a complex situation in a very simple term to someone who might not understand treasury that's quite important. All these things is actually make the way you are and then also how you get from the education is depending on you as well when you recruit.

Just before we move on to party is that something you look for all the time or is it a nice to have, must have or what do you think?

I think it's nice to have I have mixture so I had a mixture of people fully qualified and then knowing what is in the theory in the books and then they can relay it but may not have chance to practice it. I also had people who never actually been in any first degree, didn't even learn everything in banking industry own treasury world literally learn from just experience. But I think the end of the day is dependent on the person. If that person is curious, always want to learn no matter from the books or from the people as long they're learning and they actually also use their learning to add value to the organization then I think that's, you know that gave me a tick.

Yeah Deepali so my background is I'm a math honor graduate with an MBA in finance. Along the way, you know, as I've worked through the organizations I've taken on different trainings, certifications, did my CFA level one but that's another story. Didn't manage to get through to all the levels for various reasons. But I somehow agree with Vinny when I am looking for someone in my team, definitely looking through and doing the first pass filter I would say having certification or qualification will get you through to the interview round and even land you the dream job. But what you make of that really is up to you. You know, in terms of like I never had a Treasury qualification per se so all of my learning is hands on experience with work and I was, I've been lucky to where I've been exposed to all areas of treasury mix of organizations in terms of the, the industries as well. So it has just been a great learning ground for me like that. But again I would say invest in your career in a way that you think best. You know, if you feel a qualification would give you the confidence, would empower you to be able to, you know, go into an interview with all that confidence and get you in the door, you should definitely go for it along the job as well. If you feel that you know you're missing out on the next opportunity just because there is somebody alongside that in different circumstances I would say it's a nice have not a must have in the sense of how you develop your careers as long as you keep your growth mindset I think that is so important and I cannot emphasize enough. I think that's one thing I keep reiterating with my team Mike that you know we, we can only either we can keep validating for ourselves, you know, that we have all the knowledge and you know, keep proving that within the same knowledge bank to what we have. And that's one way of saying well I'm successful. The other way is stretch yourself, explore, challenge yourself and learn. And I think that's a development mindset which I feel is so important. So again if qualification, like an ACT or anything else helps you with the journey in getting to that level, then definitely please do invest your time into it and go for it.

Just before we move to Matt, I just wanted to ask you, when you're looking at someone, you know, we do the podcast each and every week and it's quite weird. Although we host it as a Treasury recruitment company, we avoid recruitment another time because we don't want it to be about this. About your career journeys as treasurers, you've heard it and things like that. When you're assessing someone, you know, you're first looking at their cv, resume. How are you then looking at that person? What's jumping out at you? Is it that growth or what you're looking for?

Yeah, I mean, depends on what level we're hiring at. Right. So that's again, one important factor. But let's say I'm looking for somebody who's starting treasury analyst. I would just look for, you know, what are the basic qualifications person has in terms of degree. I would definitely push to call somebody for an interview if it's a starting sort of level position for the person. And again, I feel that the amount of learning you can provide and the ground you can provide to somebody in that space. Treasury is one thing I would say, you know, when you're looking out, because we're also trying to develop a lot of our teams in what we call global business service hubs. It's all about. Treasury is still a very niche finance sort of domain. You know, not if you go and talk, tell somebody, like, I'm a Treasury professional, you know, like a layman. You, you would have to explain what does treasury do. Right. You still have to explain. It's easy to say I'm a finance professional. Right, okay, that, that's, that's easy. But I think we are in that space to where, you know, we have that niche to be able to capitalize on. Right. So to answer your question, yes, I would look for somebody who has maybe a good grade, good scores, has done something, even if it's outside of treasury, has done something in tax, but willing to now get into Treasury. Why not? Right. I mean, it's all about the analytic mindset and what they can bring to the team.

Matt, over to you.

Yeah, I think I can build on some of the themes there. I mean, personally, I, you know, obviously I was a chartered accountant for a while and then took my ACT exams. My view on qualifications, I think it sits in the middle here, really, that it's better than a Nice to have, but not a necessity. I mean, if I look at my team, even including my boss, none of them have an ACT qualification. That says a lot. And, you know, on top of that, I think really qualifications are passports to just get to the next step of your career. They can accelerate it, they can open doors, but they're not always the absolute necessity. And really, you know, really what de Pali was saying, I was agreeing with a lot of that, that we've got someone starting as an analyst position next week. If I think why he was successful in the interview process, it was because, you know, he wasn't the most qualified. He wasn't the most. The one with the most board experience. It was his curiosity and his willingness to grow his mindset and, and really grow as an individual. I put a lot of value on that and, and that's really important. Probably we'll touch on some themes and that's later, really, but.

Okay, we'll kick off with de Pali. This one key to your success. You know, if you look at some of the moves you made throughout your career and you know people are going to look at you, and again, I'm sure there'll be lots of LinkedIn connection requests later. Don't worry, you can block some of them. That's all right. But joking aside, people will look at that, go, you know, I want a career like that, or like Matt or like Winnie, if you look what were some of the steps you made or some of the audience here, they should be doing the same.

I think the most important thing that I have embraced in my life and my career is being vocal, really. I've made my ambitions, I've made my aspirations known to my managers, to my mentors, to my network, to HR all the time. I probably have done it to the point where sometimes they call me alpha female. I don't know. It's just that. Just have that need to make sure that people know what I'm about. And that has helped. Right? I mean, I just don't feel, you know, sometimes people say, oh, great, he was at the right place. She was at the right place, the right time. No, there is nothing like a right place. Right? You need to create your place. You need to create that time and you need to control that time in your career. And for me, it's all about never be shy, take your challenges. I think one of the things I've done very early on, I've been with hewlett Packard for 11 years. I started as a Treasury analyst and I moved along within the treasury team doing a lot of projects. You know, I am not, I wouldn't say I'm tech, tech geek, but took on the role of treasury system implementations, you know, balance sheet hedging, tool reengineering. Because I just thought I need to learn, right? So learning is very important and I think with that, if you need to make horizontal moves in your career, do that. I mean, sometimes growing up vertically is not the answer to grooms. It's all about learning, getting a broader, wider perspective. End to end, treasury is all about cash. I'm sorry, but I just feel it is just that be it protecting that cash, generating that cash, increasing that cash, whatever, but I think it's all about cash at the end of the day and if you can get yourself to get the end to end view of that, please go for it. And again, network, right. I would like to think that I invest in my career through networking. It's great when you enter into a conference and you can say hello and greet people and spend time with them and they know you, you know them, right. And it's amazing to see a lot of you here who have known, you know, some good success stories around the room as well. But it's all about networking. You know, you need to be out there investing that time. There'll be 10 reasons why you cannot attend an event like this, but there's always going to be that need for you to be able to make time for that. So.

And we'll pass across to an exceptional networker in Matt and he is because I was at Euro Finance, we were catching up for a coffee and I walked away and I was talking to Craig back at the office and I said, you know what? We were doing our panel. Winnie had said yes. De Pari thankfully said yes. I was like, great. I said, who else? Do you know what? I had a great conversation with Matt because he was a great networker and we were chatting, but bar that other keys to your success.